I_CAME
I_CAME
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3660289#Comment_3660289
Successfully hard tunneled isn’t what’s being asked here, it’s the attempt that’s being asked.
It's the lower prestige/lower hour players who get hard tunneled in my matches. I rarely see a killer go out of their way to chase the highest prestige survivor. It definitely happens less frequently than the killer focusing on the least experienced survivor. I do not have people attempt to tunnel me more frequently when I am on a high prestige survivor.
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I play on a P100 and have not been successfully hard tunneled in over 500 games (yes I track things like this). I do not know where the idea that P100s get specifically targeted comes from. If anything most killers will avoid me if they have a choice. Tunneling in my games is always the lowest hour, lowest prestige, etc getting deleted from the match. The reason I want it hidden is because I get significantly more dodges when I play on my P100. The matchmaking is already terrible and I don't want it to be any worse.
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Survivor bloodpoints are bad. If you play killer and have a huge supply of cakes then you get a lot.
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@Ulti84 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3657125#Comment_3657125
It's totally worth it to sacrifice 2 perk slots for this combo since the benefit is immense, and if you play SWF the gens will be finished in no time anyway.
This combo is busted and the Killer can't do anything to prevent it from being executed correctly if the Survivors are playing with comms.
The SWFs abuse it , same like Off the Record is abused. Off the Record was meant to prevent tunneling, but Survivors use it for body blocking.
And still Survivors complain about not receiving good new perks when stuff like Off the Record, Buckle Up + FTP, Reassurrance, Adrenaline and their various other problematic perks are in the game.
It seems to me Survivors just want to have an easy time so their busted perks have to stay in the game unchanged.
If it's so strong then why do only 2% of survivors run it?
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@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3658390#Comment_3658390
I don’t really understand how people say the game is dying I bet it’s one of the most popular games on xbox game pass
It's popular relative to the average game. Go look at the average player count in September of 2021 (when they added MMR) and compare it to now. 51k vs 31k. That's a massive decrease by any standards.
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- No reward incentive to stay. Survivors win less than killers and typically get significantly less points
- You can get a new match that you will find fun almost instantly
- Quick down in most games is almost a guaranteed win for the killer. The first chase is by far the biggest predictor of who is going to win. The chances of coming back from a bad start are not very high. The loss is guaranteed if the killer chooses to tunnel in this situation.
It's very easy to see why people give up quickly now.
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They need to implement limits to how many perks of a certain type each side can bring. Maybe a max of two slowdowns for killers and two second chance perks for survivors. It would encourage some perk variety at the very least. One of the most unfun things in the game for both sides is when you run into an opponent that plays like their life is on the line. Then the game becomes almost as much about the perks as it does the players. I personally don't enjoy getting teammates with meme perks and a Blight who is running four slowdowns.
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Never understood the hate a lot of survivors have for him. I enjoy playing against him.
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@Caiman said:
I've never figured out the best way to play against it as killer so it's ruined more than a few matches for me.
You are supposed to force the survivor to run it in a way that isn't optimal (counter clockwise) so they can't chain the two sides together endlessly. You should be able to at least force a 50/50 mind game scenario if you force them to run it counter clockwise.
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@mikewelk said:
It's not to skew the data, they just realized how busted Huntress is and there's no denying it. I would do the exact same because I didn't play the PTB to experience huge buffs to an already balanced killer that came from the devs having a brain fart or something along those lines.
https://twitter.com/RNIN_St1v1/status/1759992506056425727?t=YZtjl7BtrgqQfmgcCkML9w&s=19
Try to justify this video.
"It's fair bro! Just get good and play at comp level efficiency or something" - forum killers probably
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The solo queue escape rate is already below 40%. Even killer mains like Otz immediately acknowledged this after the stats came out. One of the largest problems in solo queue is people giving up at the slightest inconvenience. Of course in many cases people also give up due to the game being a lost cause. The fact that they still didn't count games with a disconnect proves that they are statistically very significant. I feel like I am being gaslit into thinking that solo is in a better spot than it actually is. Common sense says the real escape rate is probably more like 35%. As someone else said this doesn't even take grim embrace, billy buff, etc into account. Then we have another big wave of killer buffs coming in the new update. I do wonder how many buffs they feel like killers need before they are satisfied.
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@Gabe_Soma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654399#Comment_3654399
Right, Huntress, Blight and Hag are so bad that they desperately need buffs while killers like Myers and Freddy can safely wait another dozen years.
This is the part I don't get. The fact that they're buffing already strong killers is wild.
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@Hunkulese said:
No. The game is in a pretty good spot right now. Probably the most balanced it's ever been. Gamers just want to complain.
Solo queue is also fine. I escape more often than not, and they already buffed it with the UI indicators. All they need to do is let us see everyone's build and it'll be perfect.
Hello fellow survivor mains!
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@sinkra said:
It's not just about solo survivors, even high MMR 4-man SWF has a 48% escape rate. The whole survivor role needs a slight buff. They can start small, like -10 seconds on gen. Or fixing vaults so the killer can't hit you when you're literally on the other side and running.
Not going to happen. Whoever runs the dev team is obsessed with killers being stronger than survivors to the point where the game is miserable for anyone who isn't sweating. This is a hill they are absolutely going to die on. The fact that they buffed HUNTRESS and HAG of all killers tell you what you need to know. They will stick to this strategy even if the game continues to lose players year on year. As has been the case for years now.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653452#Comment_3653452
It is very necessary at the highest level. Why do you think her kill rate is low even at the top 5% MMR. Behavior posted it September last year.
Same reason Nurse has a low kill rate. It's because most people are terrible at her. Has nothing to do with the killer being weak. Go watch someone good like Coconut or Ralph and tell me Huntress needs buffs. Killer mains on this forum be like "we shouldn't balance around bad players" yet they have no issue doing this when it benefits killers.
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That's the problem with this game in general. The fact that you can stack the most broken combination of things to the point where the other side has zero chance needs to be looked at. Like what do you do against a blight that is running four slowdowns? We have established in this thread that the game has basically no matchmaking to speak of. It's not like these players get matched with equally sweaty opponents. I have gone on huge losing streaks only to get matched with 7000 hours killers who play like their life is on the line.
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Yes. Hopefully this encourages Behavior to nerf her into nothing.
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They had the right idea the first item they reworked her. Then the three people who play skull merchant whined that she wouldn't be strong enough. This is why sometimes you should stick to your guns and not listen to the community. If she was still too weak then you could have incrementally buffed her. It would be far better than this monstrosity we have now. The reason her kill rate is so high is because no one has any idea how to play against her. She has easily the most confusing kit in the entire game.
She gets haste but only sometimes
She gets stealth but only sometimes
She has tracking but only sometimes
She will damage you randomly but only sometimes
She hinders you but only sometimes
There's just way too much going on for a typical survivor to keep up with. You load into an average match and it's likely that at least one person will have no idea what's going on or how any of this works. That is just bad game design. Compare her power to something like Demogorgon. He lunges and can teleport with his portals. Very clear and easy to understand regardless of your experience level. I do not buy the theory that her kill rate is so high solely because of people giving up against her.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650102#Comment_3650102
This is called moving the goal posts. Killers can DC too.
We really going to pretend like killers DC anywhere near as much as survivors?
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650042#Comment_3650042
It's not that deep. Some people claim that solo queue is nearly unplayable and they die all the time. This clearly shows that the escape rates are pretty much exactly where BHVR want them.
I think it really depends on when you play. If I play solo during normal hours then my escape rate is consistently well above the average. If I play late at night or in the early morning then I get destroyed in most matches. I get paired with nothing but sweatlords during off hours. Playing solo during off hours is one of the worst experiences I have ever had in gaming.
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@RipperX said:
Overall KR Average is 58.50%, a bit under the target of 60% KR, a slight overall buff to killers in general is needed
High MMR 4 man SWF is 48 % not a surprise, that's why SWF should be nerfed
High MMR soloQ 39% a bit under 40% they can perfom well but need to be slightly buffed
Those number mean SWF and SoloQ need two separate mode and a separate balancing, BHVR can't keep working as survivors thinking they are just a single group becuase they aren't
The kill rate is higher than this in reality. Note the part where they left DC matches out even though they have bots now. They must significantly change the kill rates if they felt the need to remove it from the data entirely. Edit : I stand by what I said awhile back. True escape rate is probably 30-35%.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648405#Comment_3648405
One major piece of shade I want to also throw at this whole argument is DBDs highest numbers were between 2020 and 2022, the highest numbers mid 2021.
Does anyone remember anything that was going on in 2021? Any major worldwide events anyone can think of?
As much fun as I'm sure it is to spout huge doom and gloom theories, the entire gaming industry saw a massive boon across the whole world because of global lockdowns; every single gaming platform saw record numbers through those years.
This supposed 'dip' in the player base as a result of MMR in September 2021, or a 'design philosophy of prioritising balance over fun' are fabrications born out of a highly skewed and biased interpretation of the data.
The fact is this game still has 3 times the numbers it had through the first 2 years of it's life, and nearly double what it had up to 2020. 30'000 player average for a 5 year old game is actually quite phenomenal.
This is a pretty poor excuse for a lack of growth. Most big games have practically the same number of players as they did during the height of the pandemic. Counterstrike, GTA, Dota 2, PUBG, etc. Good games that are enjoyable for everyone hold steady or even grow their playerbase over time.
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I have like a 30% escape rate in solo queue since the Billy rework. Last time I played I got
two blights, two onis, three billies, a chucky and a Wesker. All running full slow down and occasionally one info perk. One of the Blights and One of the Billies claimed to be comp players in their steam profiles. One of the other Billies was a P100 with over 5000 hours. The Wesker was a P94 with 7000+ hours. One of the Onis was a P100 with 6300 hours. Each one of these guys played like their life was on the line. We got absolutely demolished in every game. This game has no matchmaking. You can lose and lose and it will still give you the sweatiest killers imaginable.
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Lol. I can never tell if posts like these are satire or not.
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I don't have an issue with perks getting buffs. I just wish they wouldn't go to extremes with perk changes. They should start small and go from there if it's still too weak.
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The new mode was a big case of "You think you do but you don't."
Lights Out sounded like a good idea and turned out to be a complete disaster. It will never work with how the playerbase plays every game like their life is on the line.
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Sept 2021 - 51K average players
Jan 2024 - 28K average players
The game started bleeding players when they added MMR and was made worse when they started buffing killers across the board. Both of these changes made the game extremely unfun for casual players. What if the killer brings four slowdowns and tunnels? You don't have the tools you used to have to counter it. Your solo team just collapses and you lose at 3-4 gens. You can only play so many games like this before you just get sick of the game and quit. Matchmaking doesn't do you any favors since it doesn't keep these players in their own bracket. Once you reach low-middle MMR it feels like you just thrown in with everyone in the upper brackets. Me getting matched with killers who have 6000+ hours is not uncommon at all even though I probably lose more than I win in solo. I get all of the sweats but I don't get the bad players I used to get before MMR was added. I can't even remember the last time I saw a killer with a green perk. Due to this every game feels like a massive struggle.
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I sweat in every single game. I tunnel, proxy camp, and bring the strongest perks I can. Basically everything I complain about. The amount of survivors who give up or DC in my games is actually sort of depressing.
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@GeneralV said:
Remember that Nightlight isn't 100% reliable.
Because well...
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B7J5C39EDE2W/image.png
A bit high for a killer that many are considering to be the weakest in the game, isn't it?
Many players still DC or give up immediately against Skull Merchant, and that has an impact on her kill rates. That doesn't make her too strong or overpowered.
This was basically identical to his official kill rate from Behavior's own stats. Even at top 5% MMR he was at around 60%. I doubt his kill rate is lower than this in reality.
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@jesterkind said:
Something to remember here is that a fair amount of people still just give up immediately when they see the Skull Merchant, and if the forums are to be believed, more than that number play intentionally badly to be out of the match ASAP. That's going to mess with her kill rate on top of nightlight not being 100% reliable.
Largely she seems fine to me. I don't mind the idea of hacking a drone removing one stack, though, that seems pretty fair- encourages the power interaction a little more without severely harming her ability to get work done.
Nightlight understates the actual kill rates if anything. I remember last time they released official numbers and people were surprised that kill rates were so high.
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The game would be boring without any perks. The fun in this game is using different builds.
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Anything they add is a waste of resources if they don''t properly test it for balance first. Is it worth potentially months of development if everyone is sick of it after a day? This was the case for lights out. We absolutely can not have another release like that. I am open to anything IF it is at least somewhat balanced.
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The only way to stop tunneling is with an extreme solution. Like making unhooked survivors invisible for the duration of "BT". Or having them teleported somewhere entirely different after being unhooked. I personally think the hook system needs a major rework in general. It's what enables camping, tunneling, etc. I doubt Behavior has the ambition for something like this.
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I don't understand how prestige still hasn't been hidden. They've said a few times that they're looking at the data. What exactly about this data takes so long to analyze?
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I had more fun playing against three gen skull merchants than I did playing lights out. Thankfully the challenges can be completed in normal games.
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@DH3206 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644386#Comment_3644386
You can do the challenges in normal matches as well. So you can do that (maybe before it gets patched?)
Trying this right now. Not spending a second longer in this mode than I have to. To me this is three gen skull merchant levels of fun.
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Not a fan. I will do the challenges and never touch it again. Matches go on forever. They are tedious and the compensation isn't enough to justify playing it more than you need to. Things like instadown killers also make it frustrating. They just roll up on you with no warning and there isn't much you can do. I personally don't think killers like Billy, Bubba, etc should be available in a mode where you have zero warning that the killer is coming.
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@cipherbay_ said:
Maybe if the Devs properly gave killer buffs to where they dont need to tunnel to win, you would see less of it.
There are literally experiments of high level killer mains on EU winning 90% of their games as an M1 trapper with zero tunneling, zero power, and zero camping. All of it was live streamed. I'm so over the "you can't win without tunneling" when better players than you have proved that it isn't true.
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#deletemapofferings
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because the game is obviously survivor sided if killer mains can't have a killer that is capable of winning 1000 games in a row with zero perks or addons. In all seriousness there is zero reason for her to still exist as she does. People who defend this killer are no different than the people who defended old dead hard. They just enjoy being OP and don't want that taken away from them.
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- Nurse. Basekit nerf down to A tier
- Blight - Basekit nerf down to A tier
- Myers - Buff and delete purple tombstone
- Freddy - Buff
- Pig - Buff
- Trapper - Buff
They don't even need to get complicated with any of this. I think the entire concept of S tier killers and weak killers that can be run for five gens by a good survivor needs to end. Both are bad and should be the top priority.
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I'm not really as pessimistic about this as others are. I am confident that her time is coming just like I was confident that blight would eventually get a basekit nerf. There is no justifiable reason for nurse to exist in her current state. I just don't think they can realistically put it off for much longer. How many other killers can they rework before nurse has her turn? It will be very interesting to see the roadmap for the second half of the year.
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I don't know how anyone can say with a straight face that solo queue is fine. You definitely can't make that determination after eight games. I have kept data for far longer than that and I can say with certainty that you will not maintain that sort of win rate in solo queue. Stretches like this happened in my data as well but they never lasted for long. Eventually you get hit with an equally bad or worse stretch to balance it out. Acting like the average player will escape 6/8 solo games is just dishonest and goes against all official data that currently exists. We know that the last official escape rate was 39% AFTER games where a player disconnected were thrown out. We have also been told that playing in a SWF significantly raises your chance of escaping. With those numbers in mind do you really believe that the average survivor is escaping 75% of the time? Solo queue is bad enough that I have only touched it once in the past four weeks. Killer is the only part of this game that is actually worth playing unless you have a group to SWF with.
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The anti facecamp was a direct killer buff because it finally made bad killers realize how much stronger proxy camping is.
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All I really want them to do is get rid of her haste. I think that's probably the biggest reason why her kill rate is so absurdly high. She has enough effortless crap already. Haste makes her hard to loop for new and intermediate players because they never really know how fast she is going. It messes with muscle memory and is something I think Behavior needs to move away from. I really noticed this when I played several dozen skull merchant games recently. It was like people were getting confused in chase because they weren't sure how fast I was going.
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No. People in this game are just incredibly soft to the point where it's ridiculous. People act like some random doofus teabagging them at the gate is a warcrime.
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No.
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The matchmaking is terrible and has always been the biggest problem. In solo queue the skill levels of everyone in the match are all over the place. This is more likely to hurt survivors since just one bad player will sink the entire team. The game is not currently balanced around people not being able to pull their weight. One person who can easily be tunneled out is a guaranteed loss. In the current form of matchmaking you can get 500 hour teammates and you will go up against a 7000 hour killer running quad slowdowns. I know this from a large amount of personal experience.
My current place in the MMR matches me with nothing but sweaty killers even though I don't have a high escape rate. I do remember once when they tested various forms of matchmaking in an experiment. In the day they turned off MMR I was getting matched with A LOT of not so good killers. The difference was astronomical compared to what I play against now. I feel like the bar to get matched with sweaty killers is just way too low for a game that theoretically has an MMR system. 30-40% escape rate? Enjoy playing against this 7000 hour blight chump. Maybe it's the hour I typically play at but it's not a good experience regardless.
I would rather they just get rid of MMR entirely. It's a bad system that frustrates everyone. The last time I played was on Tuesday when I got matched with an 8700 hour Hillbilly while having teammates with only a few hundred. Removing MMR would at least give you some easy games to make games like this feel less terrible. MMR has not grown the game and it is clearly not helping them retain players either if you believe Steamcharts. Is it a coincidence that the game started bleeding players and stopped adding new players when they added MMR?
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@vol4r said:
how can you guys say that billy is in perfect spot if playing against him is miserable and he is stomping every game on pub
Same reason survivors defended things like dead hard. People just like being OP and will get out of their way to downplay how OP things that benefit them are. We still have people who act like Nurse and Blight aren't a problem which should tell you all you need to know about the DBD community. A lot of people in this game only play one side and can't really see things from the perspective of the other side.
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Yes. I have over 4000 hours and get destroyed routinely. I will get 5000 hour killers running quad slowdowns and teammates who can't last more than 20 seconds in chase. The other day I had one of my worst stretches of survivor ever. I lost nine games in a row. In my last game of that losing streak I got an 8700 hour P100 Hillbilly. How is this even possible after losing that many games in a row? I am convinced at this point that MMR doesn't even exist. I have no issues winning consistently on killer. I want to see the official kill rates and I want to see the escape rate for solo queue players.