Halloulle
Halloulle
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@daffyd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615857#Comment_3615857
For some people moderation in chat is important, when you have mute (for life) it is very simple to do.
following that logic the chat filter shouldn't exist. You can hide the chat if you so wish. - My take away from that is that "you can opt out of the communication" is not sufficient.
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You know, for all I care survivors need more options when it comes to blocking aura reading. - With different pros and cons and you pick the one that suits your needs the best.
From a perk that tells you when your aura is being read but doesn't hide your aura unless you're injured (and has no tokens) to a perk that hides your aura only if you're within x meters of a killer - or one that combines not screaming and no aura reading but has tokens that are somewhat challenging to recover (ngl, probably tricky to find a balance where it's neither "only have a perk for the first minute" nor "have stacked counters all match") . There are so many options that would diversify "countering aura reading".
But for as long as Distortion is the only option to counter aura reading that is within your control (which is why I don't count OTR) it needs to be left alone. (Though, it will suffer the "over exposure" effect; if you see certain perks *a lot* you will get tired of them and will want to see less of it - even if the perk is technically very much alright).
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I don't know why the argument, that moderation isn't feasible is just brushed off like that. It's really very straightforward and simple.
The following assumes bhvr would generally welcome voice chat as a standard. As a company they have set their own standards for what kind of language and what level of offense they deem inacceptable. When the line is crossed an account gets banned. If you offer a communications-feature as part of your base game you have to be able to enforce your own rules. Bhvr seems to not think they would be able to enforce their rules in voice chat. - Be that because they would need too many people working customer support or because it would be too hard to prove - or both, or something else entirely. It doesn't matter. The bottom line is: they don't think it's feasible for one reason or the other so it's not a base-game feature.
What premades do outside the features within the game is the premades' business; bhvr is not accountable for insults people hurl at each other via discord or steam chats or whatever.
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i dont have a lot of time but want to get the challenges done - so thats the one and only thing i focus on. if i can do something funny along the way i do - otherwise i gg next sooner rather than later. which tbh makes the whole Tunneling bs a lot more bearable.
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"ez, just don't get hit bro" is also solid advice I got and that I don't want to keep from others.
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@DemonDaddy said:
Okay granted there are times teammates provide the time to do gens, I dont want it to seem like Im completely dismissive of that. However there are also clear times when it is solely my efforts which result in the time and continued ability to do a gen. Although I dont care much for the hud, it does tell me if a chase is active.
My best example and probably the nost common situation any survivor will face:
2 dead, 1 teammate and myself are left
The teammate decides that hatch is their best option and is going to hide until Im caught so they get a chance of free escape. I am not waiting for the killer to find either of us and just do nothing, lost cause as it is Im on a gen for the extra points. The killer now is not distracted and looking for any mistakes that leads into a chase. Not counting all the progression lost because of interruptions and regression that's one gen completely to my credit.
Now admittingly at some point I do make a mistake (hopefully not before Im done) or the gen popping gives away my location which brings the match to a close. Ideally I would like to outlive The Hiding teammate but that's about as easy as tanking a hit with no mither. The best case for survival in this scenario is Maybe that teammate waits too long in one location and the crows begin to appear.
.....that's actually an example for the point I was making though....? The one where your teammates don't do anything to be precise.
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Of there's a way to remove the possibility of "yellow pathing" without impacting the other three uses of woo then I'm all for it.
What are the three uses you may ask. these: giving a survivor a lay of the land without having to waste time running around the map for scouting purposes, giving a survivor a reliable live update of a close chase as well as the thereby created dead zones and lastly give new players training wheels to help recognise tiles and spawning patterns.
Yellow pathing is annoying - but I rather keep it along with the other three than ditch it along with just one of the other three.
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with this one I gut the usual get-challenge-completion-shown-in-match --- but then it doesn't show the progress when i go to the challenges post match.
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That really just means one of two things:
You were uninterrupted for prolonged times -- either because the killer does whatever or is kept busy by the other three survivors one way or the other.
Your team didn't touch gens -- either because they were doing whatever or because they kept the killer busy.
That is completely unrelated to how "OP" (or not) Solo survivor (or survivor in general) is.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610373#Comment_3610373
Dwight is common.
Leon is uncommon. And rest is rare or very rare lol.
Ace and Stebie do show up quite frequently
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This whole communications spin about it being an anti FACEcamping is what bugs me the most about it. Simply because it doesn't at all align with their own stated goal. Either, they changed the actual goal - or they failed to accomplish that goal. What is the goal you ask?
Just have a look a the dev update from September:
"You probably don’t want to find yourself on the hook in the first place, but it can quickly become frustrating if the Killer decides to wait nearby, preventing all but the most coordinated of teams from rescuing you. Camping has long been a contentious topic: While there are times where camping is the smart thing for the Killer to do (if there are Survivors nearby, for example), there’s not much the Survivor being camped can do. To help in the most extreme cases, we are introducing a new feature which may give you a second chance."
That Bubba on top of the stairs checked all the boxes for "the most extreme cases" ; it's impossible for the team to rescue the hooked survivor, it's not "the smart thing to do" and there's literally nothing the survivor being camped an do (even if they deliverance-d or kobe-d Bubba could easily chainsaw them through endurance - or just block them and M1 them - before they even left shack).
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survivors can't "tunnel" a gen - not the same way a killer can tunnel a survivor at least. And that's the comparison we're making here, no? They can stack up three people on a gen... but contrary to killer, where stacking three hooks on one survivor is the most efficient way to go, if you're somewhat competent in chase and can actually down the survivor and put them on a hook in time, that is, survivors stacking a gen is the least efficient way of doing gens (except in a three gen scenario where they're stacking the crucial gen to get it out of the way). Plus, there's that whole point where survivors don't complain about tunneling because it's efficient but because it basically completely denies four players a full game experience; the one who's tunneled doesn't really get to play the majority of the match and the other three start out playing M1 simulator, followed by punching bag simulator.
Plus, as others have mentioned, depending on what peeves you about exhaustion perks, killers do have a number of options to counter them. - Mindbreaker(/Fearmonger) is one of the ones I like when I get a bit fed up with SB-prerunning or the good old walk-first-then-run. Yes, if they have their exhaustion recovered it helps them time SB perfectly and to keep Lithe for another vault - but it will keep them from recovering their exhaustion. And you can use their pre-running habits: Scare them off the gen, don't bother to actually chase; they have used SB anyway. Scare another one off a gen and then go back to the first one; given your description they have returned to their gen. But this time without SB. There you go, easy hit. (And that's assuming Lithe and SB would lead to so much chase time extension that commiting to a surv, who has one of those perks equipped, would actually mean throwing the game/be equivalent to overcommitting.)
As for the survivor perspective it's really easy: Atm everything in the game tells you "lol, just don't get hit bro - ez". Between Proxy-camping, tunneling, Painres-Pop being omnipresent and healing taking ages as is, topped with Mangled/Hemorrhage in various shapes and forms, there's just very little else the vast, vast majority of survivors* can do when they don't want to count on the killer messing up colossally or deciding to go out of their way to two hook everyone before killing the first surv.
\*I feel compelled to point out that things might look a little different for e.g. Hens and frens or guys like Ayrun or JRM (and others on their level) when they're not goofing around but actually trying and hard and sweating. Then again, as survivor they're imo more or less comparable to a sweating Alf or Zaka or Knightlight playing Nurse, Wesker or Blight or whatever they like to sweat and stomp with in pubs. And since those guys stomp both as surv and as killer in pubs it's more of a player / pubs(aka MMR) thing than a surv-killer thing.
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Mindbreaker(/Fearmonger) and Surge(/Jolt) are handy for a number of killers - but in no way gamechangers. Especially not for beginners. - Well, actually Surge(/Jolt) may be, because from what I can tell beginner killers who can't use their M2 well yet often choose to M1 instead - a behaviour Surge(/Jolt encourages. --- Which, for the record, is a bad thing.
Tbh, I think it's a very good thing if mostly gimmick/niche perks are commonly available and new players play without them for a while. It prevents them from being over-reliant/carried by them.
--- If anything there needs to be a "kiddie pool"-detection; where genuinely new players (not smurfers) are placed in a separate matchmaking-pool (idk how you could identify smurfers tbh, maybe based on how quickly they unlock certain perks or sth...?) so that they can get to know maps, mechanics, tiles, perks, add-ons etc. pp. among themselves. The learning curve for dbd is extreme at this point and no new player should be forced to jump into the shark tank after just a dozen or so matches that, for some reason, went well.
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With an asterix though.
It's more thing of turning the same screw twice and forgetting that it stacks.
Best example: Sloppy. The way it used to be was not enough. Mangled and Hemorrage were buffed in the way they were and sloppy got some extra to counter the self-healing meta and to give killers something to still feel a degree of control when survs bring medkits. --- Then self healing as a whole mechanic has been severely nerfed. - So now Sloppy is quite overtuned.
Idk, they seem to sometimes forget just how much these things stack. - Or, well, they do know (Sloppy is up on the changes list) but smh it's never proactive; never a case of let's change how self-healing works and change Sloppy (/Mangled/Hemorrage) to make it balanced considering the changes. So in the meantime things just really feel very unbalanced and unfair for no reason. Atm survs seem to get the short end of that stick more often than killers - but it could just as well be the other way around.
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Fun to verse: Blight (provided they're not running one of the broken combos), Wesker, Nemo and Pyramid head (provided they don't come with a proxy-camping/tunneling license), Piggy (provided she doesn't do the "funny" hex thing) ... more or less indifferent to most of the other killers.
As for killers I wish I could make disappear? Twins, Chucky, Xeno, Clown (the effect literally makes me want to throw up, so no thanks), Wraith (but only the speedy silent hit n run Wraith - you know which one)
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He's like Ghostface and Blight having a mutant baby. - He's even harder to see than crouched Ghostie (simply because of the size; a ton of tiles are by default a coinflip because you have literally no way to react in time based on what you can perceive because you can't see the dude) - and can rush with less restrictions than Blight.
"You can dodge the dash" is also something that i'd like to see you do against a somewhat decent player on a semi-regular basis; it's incredibly hard to gauge the actual hitbox (since similar to Victor it's much larger than Chucky) and position yourself accordingly - and since Chucky can flick in any direction he wants it's not so much about dodging and a lot more about baiting him into whiffing - which is an entirely different thing.
Idk, atm I'm very sick and tired of Chucky - but at least right now I can't see how those two points could get fixed with the good old "git gut". Gitting gut doesn't give you wallhacks to see Chucky - and gitting gut also doesn't stop him from zooming around the map pretty much uninterrupted. It also doesn't reduce his hitbox. - If anything you may at som point get used to his hitbox being twice his size and visuals not at all lining up with what's actually happening ... but, well, even that seems more like a "just become clairvoyant" than a "git gut".
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If you really break it down it's quite simple, imo.
You can't nerf survivor around some killers never having a chance against the absolute best of the best trying their hardest.
Conversely, you can't nerf a killer around some survivors never having a chance against the absolute best of the best trying their hardest.
If you want to make it possible for "the average killer" to end a match in at least a draw against those kinds of survivors then any survivor below that level will be absolutely stomped by any killer just slightly above average.
Again: The other way around is true as well. If you want to nerf e.g. Nurse to a point where your average squad can beat Alf's Nurse then anyone who isn't on Alf's level will probably get stomped all the time.
In dbd balancing around the absolute strongest just doesn't work. - Mostly because someone like Ayrun and frens, or Hens and frens (who're doing an escape streak atm) don't get more or less exclusively matched with people like Alf playing Nurse, Knightlight playing Wesker etc. pp.
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I love how somehow every map that has some strong tile is automatically entirely survivor sided...
There are some strong tiles - and there are a number of effective deadzones that you can't really avoid because they also have a gen.
Overall I find the map pretty alright - though gen (and potentially hook) rng placement needs to be looked at; two gens in main is rough, two gens inside main and two gens right outside main is flat out impossible against any killer who doesn't actively leave that area (and why on earth would they?). - As for hooks I don't know if it's my imagination but sometimes there seems to be a cluster of hooks in one corner of the map - and another area of the map is nearly devoid of hooks.
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I was very skeptical for the first couple of paragraphs- but I do think you're spot on:
"This new meta isn't an issue because it's "OP" or anything. It's because it rewards players for not interacting with each other. Quite literally the definition of anti-fun. But I also don't think it's solely because of evil "sweaty toxic high mmr bully swfs". I 100% believe it's because of MMR. Please let me explain before you roll your eyes.
The thing about all of these players is they cannot run the killer at all. I don't mean that as a dig at them, but they legitimately can't. I think many of the players doing these things is solely because they can't keep up with the sudden difficulty spike after a certain point. As helpless as they claim to be, killers do have some really nasty stuff they can bring. These players are casual ones who are just trying to keep up. That's what I think at least."
I find myself in that position when I play with my turned-sweatlord-comp group I used to play with a lot. That I'm not a complete potato is something I get reminded of when I play with other people who are way more on the casual side. - But when I play with them it's distortion and then do gens strategically while avoiding the killer and not being a burden - and going for unhooks/resets. I do waste the killer's time; failing a skillcheck intentionally and having them go on a fool's errand, play hide and seek around a tile. I'm usually not two tapped but using chase to buy time is definitely not what I should do if I want to avoid being a burden.
Idk, I just wanna hang out with friends playing a game without getting yelled at and everyone being passed at me. Distortion and a more stealth focused approach (/attempting to stealth) makes that possible.
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yeee, these things can happen on some maps. - Though usually you don't get the super ridiculous ones very often. - On some of the "hourglass maps" you can have more or less a six-gen where the gen(s) that spawn in "middle" pick the slots that are kinda really not in the middle anymore (Suffo, e.g. ; six out of these seven: in front of main, behind main, right of main, the two next to it, the one between main and mid and the one in the first "mid" tile. --- Once had that as Nemo and didn''t even notice until well into the match; was wondering why the darn survs never left the area. Well, they kinda couldn't, it turned out.)
While their 3genning solution should address some of the issues that come with it (making it insanely easy to three gen) it doesn't really solve the issue where the killer actually really has no interest whatsoever in three genning - but if they don't actively take a tour of the map for no good reason at all it kinda amounts to the same. The gen placement itself is the issue. (Same also goes for hookplacements, btw, I've seen several matches wehere hooks were very oddly spawned; twice as many on one side of the map as the other. Lead to the odd situation where even though the team sabod three hooks the killer still made it to a fourth (despite breakout) --- and then a teamie could crawl all the way down one side of the map and out the exit gate cause the killer had used the one hook available there to sacrifice me)
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I usually use bond (not for unhook coordination but to not accidentally run the killer into a tile with a high-progress-gen)
Hook coordination is relatively simple with the HUD: So one person got hooked. I assume everyone was on a gen while that chase lasted. If all three are still on a gen upon hook then everyone is somewhat far away. Look at the gen progress: If a gen is going to pop within ~10 seconds then that surv will then go for the unhook and should make it in time. If not, the two people with the most gen progress will stay on their gens and the one with the least progressed gen will go for the unhook.
If during the chase a survivor went off their gen it's fair to assume they got interrupted by chase; if they don't get into chase soon-ish after the hook they should get the unhook since they should be the one closest to hook anyway.
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I agree that an otherwise mediocore killer should not get a pass on unhealthy mechanics to "make up for it".
Given e.g. Face the Darkness it becomes quite impossible to remove traps quite easily. Especially when paired with Thrill of the Hunt. Nearly no effort on Piggy's part required to get headpops. (It's incredibly boring to play that way, imo, but it's not like I can keep people from doing it.)
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Just out of curiosity: Have you noticed in your matches where you play like that, that your teamies chases are significantly shorter than your own?
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Since I'm a distortion enjoyer I don't really have experience getting screwed by the perk.
However, given that there has been a common theme of "there should be no 'free' things in end game", it probably should deactivate in endgame; As OP outlined it's basically a free down on any killer with mobility.
... then again. There are always lockers and people tend to know if they're the obsession.
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idk, I think it's rather telling when a perk that's been nerfed to the ground is still a popular pick. Some might think survivors have hardly any decent options if dh is regularly showing up again.....
Or, dare I say, survivors have to bandaid fix stuff with perks that should not have to be fixed by perks....
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598744#Comment_3598744
The latter is very easy to test - one just have to pick killer, and no regression.
Some of us only play that way, as slowdown doesn't do anything interesting, while other perks help to start and finish fun chases!
I rarely take more than one regression perk - and even that I kinda dropped recently. So I know what it looks like from an average killer perspective (Nemo in my case; I usually have Iron grasp, Lethal (cause I'm lazy) and then some perks I feel like. Sometimes Spies, sometimes Cruel Limits (/Claustrophobia), sometimes that Hex that blocks windows after a fast vault, sometimes Bam. I liked sloppy a lot for a while but since it became so popular I kinda got tired of it). - But I rarely see killers other than those that really shouldn't even need gen regression or another highly specialised build (* cough * iri hatchet camping Huntress * cough * ) without gen regression.
I'm mostly curious because with Nemo it's kinda straightforward for me: If I have a a team that's better at looping than I am at chasing (or overcommit on the wrong person) they win - if I'm better at chase than they are at looping (or they have a really weak link) then I win. Taking gen regression perks (usually Eruption + NWO) kinda catapulted me to a place where I would still usually end a match with a draw even though technically I lost most chases since they lasted too long.
That being said, when I played killer a lot more after booting regression perks again I first lost a lot, naturally, but then started winning more again; and over time I noticed survs getting better and better and eventually I arrived at the level of the survs I catapulted myself to and again on average it was a draw.... just that this time around it was without gen regression.
Long story short: I do wonder how matches go after two or so weeks without gen regression perks (and without exhaustion perks; although I don't think with the current set of exhaustion perks they have as much impact as regression perks, in part because a surv can't stack them), once MMR has adjusted.
Do we see overall fairer matches? Do people have a better time? Is the "obligatory sweat" reduced? - Do we see a massive increase in tunneling?
I'm really curious.
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In theory the current gen regression perks are in a really good spot; they have either decent conditions (PrainRes, Pop), decent limitations (Surge(/Jolt), Eruption) or while being useful without the killer doing much, aren't overly oppressive (Deadlock, DMS, Ruin).
As usual, things become complicated and problematic once you stack two or more of these perks and add certain killer powers and/or add-ons on top.
The sheer amount of times a gen was 80% or 90% and got completely deleted between survs having chase and unhooking as a higher priority is striking. - And I say that both from a surv perspective and a killer perspective; as surv doing essentially 7+ gens per match is extremely frustrating --- and as killer I sometimes come by a gen, that I know was nearly completed, just to see it's back at zero; and that's with one regression perk and keeping in mind that that gen was decently progressed so if I don't currently have a surv to chase I'll probably find one there.
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On the one hand exhaustion perks are easily the group of perks that bring the most spice for a survivor on average.
That being said, I think I'd like to at least test and see what the game looks like without exhaustion perks --- and what it looks like without gen regression perks.
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yeah, nah. surv is pretty horrible atm. glad the last page in tome has released so I just stick with doing the challenge and not giving a darn about the rest of the match.
almost done with the tome tho, so will probs take a week or soo off until killer qs calm down again and I can do my killer challenges in peace
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@SimpleSage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597397#Comment_3597397
Looking at gen kicks is the exact same Idea I had after watching Coconut's recent video, and I thought back to some of my own matches against killers trying to hold a 3 gen from the start. It's absolutely right, Killers camping a 3 gen kick those gens no matter how little progress, even choosing to kick the gen over chasing the survivor they caught doing it. If the prompt is there they kick it.
Since the goal of this is to specifically address killers playing for a 3-gen from the start I figured a system that looks at different actions iv various context -
- How many times the killer kicked a specific gen in a set period of time. ( Is it obsessive for a Killer to kick a singular gen 2 times in 30s? How about 7 times in 60s?)
- Survivor progress vs. killer caused regression in a set period of time. (Has the killer regression reduced survivor progress because the survivor abandoned the gen to regress naturally after being kicked once? Was regression caused by a perk with strict activation requirements like Pain Res or Pop? Was regression caused after the gen was kicked with overcharge 3 times in the last 45s and resulted in 2 missed skill checks?)
- How many survivors are in proximity to the gen and how long compared to the killers time in proximity. ( Did the killer spend 97s within 16m of a gen because 3 survivors were also with 16m of said gen with varying but overlapping times? Did the killer spend 97/120s near a gen with 1 survivor who was only within the area for 15s?)
This could yield a reliable system if executed properly.
But then the next issue is, if the game detects 3-genning, what happens? I've seen a lot of suggestions saying to just cause the gens to trade places with the farthest completed one, which would work, if it wasn't common for gens to spawn on top of each other in the first place. To make this a workable solution they would need to rebuild spawn logic for maps from the ground up (This is the correct way to fix this issue completely, enforce a minimum spawn distance between gens, and might as well address hook, totem, clutter and tile spawns at the same time because maps have way to much rng potential that can absolutely dictate the match results). However I don't think this is what they're doing based solely on the fact that they said the system will DETECT 3-genning which, to me, implies the possibility is still there and this is just a deterrent to the killer.
As for buffing the survivors repair speed on those gens, would that be enough? It doesn't stop the killer from camping the gens, does it really help if survivors can't sit on a gen long enough to out repair the regression. I thought about making a gen immune to killer regression for some time as well but that also doesn't help if you can't sit on the gen. I'm really curious to see what the solution is.
"what happens?"
just apply a mini-bnp-effect; within x time killers get y gen kicks for free. for each kick exceeding that limit the gen needs 3 charges less to get repaired.
Survs attempting to break a three gen will have brought the total amount of charges needed down to somewhere between 50 and 70 -- which is manageable even if three gens are pretty close together.
survs who three gunned themselves by just not doing them are still stuck with the full charges needed.
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I don't play that often anymore but even i had three deliberate three genning killers.
Easiest way to test how hellbent they are ok their three gen? Give them a semi free hit and then leave the three gen area - don't even have to go far - but the second the three gen is further than ten seconds away they turn around as if on an invisible leash.
Insufferable.
As for the situations where three gens remain it's one third on survs, one third those kinda killers and one third where survs decided its not worth their time to sink 20+ minutes in some kind of ridiculous standoff and after realising the killer is guarding a set of gens like it's their first born or sth they just get the other gens and totems for points and then go next; hold m1 on three gen and get grabbed, e.g.
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if I want to know the killer's build, otherwise no. got other things to do.
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I don't know if you were around this time last year during gen regression meta. That was the carrot. Killers had several tools to make gens take longer. - Ironically, that's also when a lot of killer players learned how both strong and easy it is to keep a three gen. - And when a lot of surv players learned to smash those gens asap. Both sides still do a lot of the stuff they learned back then -- and both strategies are still extremely efficient. So much so that they need to get nerfed and ought to be brought in line with the bulk of strategies.
Imo, the easiest way to detect if someone is keeping a three gen is to see how often and how frequent gens are kicked. The difference between "survs three genning themselves" and "a killer refusing to do anything that could endanger their three genning" is the sheer amount and frequency of gen kicks. That's easy enough to tell and separate from a killer just being in an area a lot.
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A regression cap is probably the only way to address forced three gens. Everytime a gen is kicked it also applies an effect similar to BNP. Everytime it's kicked it requires two or three charges less to complete. (While I think gen tapping is alright at the moment in this case gen tapping would have to get removed; a gen only stops regressing when you repaired it for at least 1.5 seconds.)
Survs three genning themselves won't usually have touched the three-gen-gens often enough for that to matter; they never tried to break it and never really got interrupted if they had tried and most killers will rarely have to kick a gen more then three times, not even with Overcharge, CoB, Eruption or NTH if they don't actively try to keep a three gen the whole match. (for all I care they can also get three kicks per gen for free - and every thirty-ish seconds the gen requires one more charge again to adress a situation where a killer guarded one highly progressed gen for a while - but even after that it never got stopped from regressing. That's on the survivors and I see how that shouldn't make the gen take only 70 seconds or something like that to be completed).
Survs trying to break the three gen right from the beginning would be rewarded the most; the gens they tried to complete while slowly also working away at the others would get kicked many, many, many times over the course of the match, reducing the total charges needed by the time the three gen gens are the only ones left to a number low enough to be entirely manageable.
(Looking at most of the content creator experiments on three genning most teams manage to get at least one gen to at least around 70% several times and under the circumstances outlined above these gens would have popped.)
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not in game but in the update patchnotes it says events and tomes
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@GentlemanFridge said:
Calm Spirit has gained popularity because of it hard-countering Ultimate Weaon.
maybe that’s what is happening?
Nope, no Calm Spirits in my games
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594718#Comment_3594718
Nemo is the only killer with a tunneling license. I'm half mad if they don't.
. * insert sadge pepe * pls don't be half mad at me.
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@Skitten56 said:
The counter is don't finish gens when people have hats and do the totem. Its a m1 killer. Just play it safe and against any somewhat coordinated team the perk isn't an issue.
Ultimate Weapon is a much bigger problem of a perk than Face the Darkness anyways.
"And do the totem" is easier said than done tho when lily piggy guards it like a dog guards their bone. - You can't cleanse it in time and whoever got a hat will be dead. If several attempts have to be made at cleansing the totem then gens aren't progressed either and the game eventually starts as a 3v1 - just a few minutes late. Her being "just an M1 killer" is also not really something in her defense. She does have stealth, so she had a much easier time to get surprise hits on that totem cleansing person.
That being said: I do think UW is just as much of an issue on her - and that really doesn't have a counter in this scenario.
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Lemme help you out with Felix : The one thing I did hear about him is him being the eye candy / there to cater to the thirsty ones.
Quentin: Somehow people usually assume Quentins are useless - similar to Leon, just without the troll part. ..... and tbh, they are. except when they're actually cracked.
As for killer:
Nemos have a tunneling license and don't know how to do anything else.
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I haven't really played it - but I do remember it somehow being part of the random perk loadouts the challenges generated for you. I forgot about that challenge so I was kinda confused why on earth it was possible for me to play shack against a Huntress and how tf Wesker kept missing his Bounds.
While I still think that's mostly killers being unable to either recognise a certain perk being in play or to adjust their gameplay to a certain perk being in play, I do realise that there are some tiles that are genuinely unplayable on some killers if mft is equipped. - I noticed this with Nemo on several occasions; there are some tiles you can play pretty efficiently in T2; it's a close hit but if you aim well and won the mindgame (you have to wind up before you can see if the surv is actually doing what you need them to do in order to land the hit) you do get the hit - just barely but somewhat reliably. In T3 you usually get that hit, even playing by reaction. If a surv has MfT T3 feels like T2 at best. If you don't have T3 when you run into MfT? Well, good luck with that.
So from the get-go I was on the "this perk needs an additional condition so it's not pretty much by default available the second you're injured" ---- my idea was a mini exhaustion; a) it is only active in chase b) upon entering chase it is active for ~20 seconds; after that you have to walk off a fearmonger-like exhaustion before it becomes available again. - So everyone would get a slight advantage on an initial chase - but to actually make the chase last they do have to express quite some skill.
Should be easy to tell that I'm not a fan of the planned changes. Mostly because it has become a way too situational perk + great, you run marginally faster now; fast enough to have an advantage in chase but not fast enough to actually get away. And given how deepwound works the disadvantage of not being able to see a friggin thing because of the overlay kinda really outweighs the advantages real quickly. - Idk, maybe I could get on board if mft also removed the overlay/reduced it to the initial intensity.
Well, I guess bhvr is in the habit of just nuking things instead of simply nerfing them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592724#Comment_3592724
Think you misunderstood, +300% while crawling. Not while staying still.
No, I did understand correctly (on the second read though ^^ first time around I did miss it).
But let me explain a bit better what I mean: Nothing keeps a killer from picking you up and dropping you smack in the middle of a three gen or between two well progressed gens. At this point there are very few maps left where a killer can't make that distance with you wiggling free / jumping off. If you stay where you've been dropped, your team (now consisting of only three people) will have to start over in terms of gen progress - or will enevitably end up with a three gen situation (and again: by default a 3v1 three gen) - or even both; if they started working on the three gen right at the start of the match.
If you try to crawl out of the gen zone (where the killer can camp you and the gens) you will have bled out before you've made it to a place where you're actually pickable by teamies. If a teamie still attempts to pick you up, the best case scenario would be that you get downed three seconds later and get brought back to the gen zone. The worst case scenario would be that your teamie gets downed before they can actually pick you and now the killer has two slugs they can camp along with gens.
The only way survs could actually do something about this is with perks that a) make the pick-up near instant (and wait for an opportune moment where the killer is the furthest they tend to go before checking on their slug again) b) grant endurance. That's FTP-Buckle-Up. Especially the Buckle-Up part; if it's a regular pick-up the surv picking up would then expect to get hit while picking you up and either one of you two takes the endurance hit or, at the very least, ShiftW as far away from that area as possible while the killer counts to ten, sniffing up your butt and ready to swing.
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@UndeddJester said:
The idea I think of this perk is to make slugging more effective, and while people hate slugging, it is reasonable for the killer to force Survivors away or punish players for hovering nearby for potential saves.
From the killers point of view when not using this perk to troll, you would want a perk that allows you to slug, but has a pretty reasonable chance of you being able to return to that survivor and still get your hook without excessive time wasting, or even complete loss of your target. The unfortunate downside is it also allows the 4 minute bleedout troll. So my attempt to fix it would be to switch the permanent and timed effects around, to something like:
Putting a Survivor into the Dying State with your Basic Attack:
- Reduces the Crawling speed by -50 %.
- Reduces the Recovery speed by -25 %.
- Crawling causes bleed out progression to progress +300 % faster (60 secs)
For the next 10 seconds, the following effects apply to the dying Survivor:
- Their aura is prevented from being revealed to any Survivor who is farther than 24/16/8metres away from them.
- Suffers from the Blindness Status Effect.
- Causes them to be deafened.
This would mean you can crawl away, but doing so will be much slower and will bleed you out much faster, so you are heavily incentivised to not move, but also severely limits the ability to troll survivors as well.
There is an initial block on survivor being able to see you from afar, which aids vs. background player, and also makes assessing, positioning and timing for flashlight and pallet saves more difficult, especially as the survivor can't see aura's themselves to assist their SWF.
the 300% bleedout speed would make this perk hands down the fastest killing perk with near zero counterplay (only ftp buckle up could counter this to some extent). Just down surv, drop them in a place where you can camp them and three gens. Easy win. If they stay, it's gonna be the three gen game after they've bled out. If they crawl away they're just dead before they can get picked, or any gen is popped.
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On the main topic. Knockout is, similar to Boil Over, a perk that's toxic by design / the only situation where it's actually useful is with toxic strategies. - As for Knockout it's also by definition "not normal gameplay". Normal gameplay is hooking survivors. A killer that only ever puts survs in the dying state is not actually playing normally. Tbh, if devs are hellbent on keeping the perk they should remove the bleedout timer entirely; that way it's at least reportable as keeping the game hostage if the killer entirely refuses to hook.
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That really is a non-issue.
If you know a survivor will attempt that you can use it to your advantage; at this point you know where they'll try to go. At best it's a free hit, at worst they don't get to tap the gen.
If a survivor has so much distance that you can't do that the surv loses distance - that's still a win for you as far as the chase is concerned. Especially because it makes the surv reaching the next tile without getting hit more difficult. - The gen stops regressing but the gen can't be progressed either, that's neutral.
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You don't trap the pallet/window. You trap the checkspots.
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I'd say play to have fun - but man, that would be setting yourself up for being extremely frustrated and in an extremely bad mood.
... Though, playing to win is just miserable too.
Atm I opt to play with friends while hanging out in vc... which I suppose is playing to have fun? With the friends, that is. Not with the game.
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Any points that hinges on one side's ethics and morals to be enjoyable for all is a mute point in a pvp game where such a diverse set of strategies is possible.
Differently put: If the game stops being enjoyable the second one side goes "nah, not in the mood for 'fair' today" by design it's not good design.
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tbh, I think it's mostly because efficiency has gone through the roof. Survivors have little else to do instead of being as efficient on gens as possible - even soloQ mates eventually learn that it's smart to ocasionally put "gens before frens - and literally anything else" cause if that gen gets hit by painres and pop it's just gone. If the dominating mindset is "make gen before that chased surv there is on hook" you do gens real efficiently. Conversely, killers faced with that kind of gen efficiency feel the need to get maximum pressure as well. It's the efficiency/optimisation cycle of hell.
Since pretty much all matches start off with "lemme see if i can tunnel that surv out" chances are the vast majority of matches will see the endgame; but it's a 3v1 and maybe one or two extra hookstages. - Tunneling/camping a second person becomes that much easier with e.g. NWO.
And as surv being healthy and fast in EG becomes that much more important. If you're the unlucky one who got tunneled out no amount of anti-tunnel perks would have changed that. - You're either good enough to survivive until the gates are open or you aren't - and chances are 99% of players are not. And if you're not the one tunneled out you gonna need that speedboost and few other perks will have actual value since the killer is busy tunneling anyway.
And if it's survs reacting to killers or killers reacting to survs is a chicken and egg kinda discussion I'm not really interested in; whichever came first we're now at a point where it's a self-perpetuating thing; a circle where everyone can point to plenty past experiences to justify what they're doing and why they're doing it.
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Overpowered is a strong word and I don't think UW necessarily is - but it is somewhat overtuned for the reasons many people have pointed out.
Personally, I'd be alright with making it a fixed radius (25m) and making it shrink to zero over the course of its activation time.
As is, it's half of Doctor's kit, but better; no charge time, less cooldown and it moves with you.
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The game is designed around perks being available for all characters. Even if it was a good idea (personally I don't think it is because as others have said: combining different perks is the fun part) it would be infeasible - or rather flat out impossible.
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I start to believe the only reason Pharmacy was "buffed" was because Quentin would've had three actually really useful perks - and no way a survivor is allowed to have three decent perks. (The rule is one good perk per survivor - a second that may be good in some situations and at least one that's really bad.)
As for Quentin-appreciation: Since prestiges are visible and killers still tend to lobby-shop when they see high prestiges I kinda stopped playing my two go to characters and the character that I usually play now is Quentin. - Though, although I actively try to avoid putting BP into him just the "oh darn, I'm near the cap must spend BP during one minute timer" brought him up to P20-something now. Fingers crossed killers will either be prevented from lobby shopping (treat it like DC) or Prestiges are gonna be hidden until post match screen.