Halloulle
Halloulle
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- Halloulle
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If people get an "objectively fair match" (and MMR is just one aspect of that - just as important, or probably even more important, are the loadouts people bring) it's actually kinda balanced. The only issue is: matches are hardly ever "objectively fair".
There are certain loadout options on both sides that immediately reduce the pool of viable loadouts for the other side to a tiny fraction of possible loadouts and very rarely the other side happens to bring stuff exclusively from that pool of loadouts.
Usually, matches are a mismatch in one way or the other. In whose favor the mismatch is, is a coinflip.
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For me personally it's mostly about the cosmetics - hair specifically. I tend to like the guys' stuff more.
The reasons I heard most often from a certain crowd of people I play with are mostly game-advantage related. Many also say the movement animations of (most) female characters feel smoother.
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The not fussed one in a group of people who turn more and more into the strategic general ^^
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Hot take, or probably not, actually: if a player reaches the (near) full potential of both the mechanical skillset the survivor role offers and the mechanical skillset a given killer offers, they will be more successful as killer.
What do I mean by that exactly: There are so many instances with killers where "the devil is in the detail" that only rather few people get to - since each killer has their own quirks and mechanical oddities/special cases/whatever you want to call it. The mechanics of the survivor role change very little - the greatest mechanical changes happen with using flashlights and toolboxes, otherwise it doesn't come down to mechanical prowess but having what-to-do-when-facing-which-killer-knowledge and being able to translate that knowledge into action. --- And this is precisely why insanely good killers will usually best insanely good survivors: you can get insanely good at one or two or three killers. I dare say no one knows all the details of all killers and is able to play them all while reaching full potential. - And the same goes for countering them.
(I don't want to dip into the swf debate too much; but they can make use of meta strategies that can mitigate. - Same goes for "gens asap". If the match ends before it starts then, well, it doesn't matter how insanely good the killer player is.)
This has already gotten too long. The point was though that perkwise survivors will probabla always have "more easy to access and covering more bases" perks than killers; precisely because it is pretty much impossible to know all the in and outs of every killer on every map - and survivors have less agency (aside from genuine genrush and thou-shalt-not-hook-or-slug sabo teams) in steering the match one way or the other. They have to be able to react to a wider set of situations - so their mechanic and perk design tend to address that, and the player also rather chooses a perk usable in a wide range of situations.
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While I agree with some of the previous statements about playing for the challenge and just leaving it and not rush it, just keep it as active until it eventually happens, I also very much agree with op that these challenges are ridiculous.
Many challenges essentially run counter to any kind of normal game play- especially for survivors. Doing a challenge oftentimes requires you to not play normally and I think itsnot exactly a good thing if you're not just encouraged but pretty mich demanded to throw or play abnormally --- pretty much always to the disadvantage of your team.
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The most important question is: do you know about the context of the message? On the PTB a basekit mechanic is being tested: if a killer stays close to the hook, a survivor can unhook themselves after a while. I think the message is referring to this mechanic. The devs test this mechanic because none of the players in the match can really play the game if a killer stays right next to the hook. The killer does not chase or defend gens. The survivor on the hook is not playing. And the three other survivors just hold their mouse button. There is no interaction. The goal is to have some kind of dynamic interaction between all five players.
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@Felgoose said:
You're not meant to be matched only with survivors at your skill level. Matching with a balanced skill level teammate widens the available skill level of killers you can face in a random que. If you're higher skilled than the killer, you can be paired with someone lower skill level than the killer and it becomes a decently fair match.
.....that's not how it works. At least not when comes to the "decently fair" bit.
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To be fair, I would have preferred if they had held the additional slow on miss back until the midchapter to see how stats change with the bug fixed and turrets adjusted.
Though, I do think it makes sense to increase the slowdown for missing since spamming M2 until you inevitably hit woth hardly any repercussions is just not very good game design, imo (though I think it could be up for debate if only a survivor is a valid target or if both sirvs and turrets are valid targets).
But the changes do by no means make him C-tier. He now has a skillfloor for his M2. And of course, if you won a bunch of matches the past two weeks without already having or having acquired that skill since then you're having a rude awakening now and will lose a number of matches until you either drop far enough in mmr and/or improve the M2 hit-miss ratio.
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Nemo. I throw matches for the triple tap. Works once in a blue moon but when it does it's glorious. I also hate getting stopped by pallets.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543293#Comment_3543293
Yes I have met those people.
Bubba would likely hold the record time.
I do not know the specific Blight match you are referencing, but I doubt the survivors were activity working to prevent such a state of affairs.
Killer players do actively work to prevent a 3-5 minute gen rush.
Both are possible outcomes, one is a common goal of a competitive group, the other is lesser seen and as stated confined to 1/10 or less of the available match possibilities.
The more survivor I play the more I learn to avoid the mistakes that lead to an early failed match.
The more killer I play the more I learn there isn't much to be done when survivors are determined to exit quickly, have practiced to do so, and commit to doing it.
it's this https://youtu.be/b4grJs2c4xw?feature=shared first down is barely ten seconds in and nothing Feng could have done about it and it continues just like that. I suppose in a way you're right: they were not actively trying to prevent that state. Though that's because they never got a chance to do so. I also like the accidental in that title. I think it says a lot.
Personally, I see a lot more of those blights and nurses as surv than I see genrushing survs as killer (we see those nurses and blights often enough that the phrase "another funny one" in an overly sarcastic voice is how we ended up calling them). I think you eventually reach that point on both sides if you play regularly and it isn't fun on either side if you don't have that hyper sweaty mindset.
It's imo very sad and it really upsets me, so I do feel where op is coming from, but it is how it is. There are plenty other games and touching grass isnt so bad either ^^ I used to sink pretty much every free minute into the game; 50-70hrs/week. Now it's more like 5-8, and it's because of the people in vc, not the game.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543241#Comment_3543241
He could use "we" as a community. It doesn't have to be "we" as a team, which would be way cooler tho...
I don't really get what you are defending tho. OP said:
even 4 good players on comms easily lose to the killer. It’s insane
Just, really? There has to be different meaning for good, or idk.
If he tried to argue for soloQ buffs, I always supported that (unless it would buff SWF too), so selective... but SWF? I really want to see gameplay of those "good" players. I wish DBD would have proper records, where you can find games just by ID like Dota...
It's still not "the community". It's to some extent a pet peeve of mine; we is often used to hedge. Try to actually say who "we" is and more often than not you'll struggle to make yourself clear. Though, in this case I'm fairly certain that, at the very least, "we" does not mean people like op.
Not even really defending op either; to me it reads like a vent post because just casually playing while hanging out with friends is not a viable way to play this game anymore.
Now what "good" means in this game is all over the place and extremely subjective, so I won't touch that bit.
I suppose I mostly got irritated by some group of pros setting a world record being framed as saying something about how impossible or not it is to escape as survivor when "impossible" was clearly a figure of speech.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543195#Comment_3543195
What Hens did is prove the absolute minimum amount of time required to complete the match for the survivor side, something that when playing as a killer you figure out in your first 500 hours or so.
This is something survivors can and always could work to setup on their own, that they don't want to play optimally as a team isn't really the killer's concern.
For a killer to attempt your contrasted example, the survivors would have to either assist the killer, make mistakes, or mob the killer with intent.
These aren't really related. Survivors wanting out fast is a common event. Survivors wanting to present a killer with an easy blob target is very uncommon.
Have you met a capable Nurse, Blight or Spirit with Lethal, dead set on ending the match asap? At the very least those three don't need the survivors' help to end a match in two-something minutes if they bring the right addons. (Just look at the current 1min53sec blight record, no survivors helping there - just run boy with double iris being fast and insta downing)
That being said: you're absolutely right. These records show the absolute minimum time requirement. Be that on surv or killer. But that is the whole point: just because some individuals had the right combination of build, skill, attitude toward the match and some luck doesn't mean it actually means anything when it comes to the game as a whole, or that it is in any way shape or form representative. - It certainly doesn't mean that anyone who can't keep up with the records automatically has a skill issue.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543195#Comment_3543195
They said it's impossible to escape because they made survivor harder and harder than ever.
So honestly, any video of survivors escaping would be suitable evidence.
Specially when the required gameplay is basically just gen simulator 3000 while 1 person loops good.
In the record the slugged person was at the open gate and the other one was opening the other gate. Which is why I said 3man out around the 3 minute mark. Instead of the exact number.
The wanted outcome depends on who you ask so no point in discussing it.
I once did it in less than a minute because bubba and tinkerer. It was really funny.
But now let's cut to the important part. Please point me to where I said hens represents all or even most of the dbd community?
Op said surviving was impossible, even with comms and good players mind you (which is mind boggling to me). And I said "we are literally breaking records rn so it literally cannot be harder. You are just not as good as you think you are at the game"
You seriously want to tell me you don't recognise the figure of speech? Or are you fully aware it is a figure of speech and just chose to take it literally? Well, either way. If you take it literally, then, indeed, every game in which any survivor escapes by any means would counter the argument that escaping is "impossible". If that's the point you want to make: fair enough, you're absolutely correct.
As for the pointing you to where I take the notion of representativeness from: "We" are not breaking records. There was one instance in which a record was broken. The inclusive we, however, suggests at least some degree of representativeness.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543006#Comment_3543006
idk who K is... but it does have to do with what you said.
Since then the game has done nothing but make it impossible for survivors to survive.
the escape time record was literally broken. so how is it impossible or even harder than before? and there's several games in the video that show similar times indicating it's consistent.
just gonna say it... you might be dealing with a skill issue.
You're kinda using the video as evidence for your claim...but the video and the record are actually not suitable evidence for that claim.
For the record attempt the builds were optimised for gen repair and literally nothing else. The record setting match was against a Legion, who had little going for him to counter genrush (aka hinging on luck). Other matches turned out to be somewhat longer (3-something to 4-something minutes) - and the time got stopped when the first survivor got to match result screen via exit gates, which also shaves off a number of seconds and ignores the fate of the remaining survivors. It was all about getting one person out through the gates ASAP. - Which iirc isn't exactly the outcome people aim for when playing the match.
Idk if someone did a "how long did it take me to down every survivor" video but given the perks and killers that are around I imagine nurses with an aura reading/scream/exposed build will regularly have four slugs 30 seconds into the match, and then it just depends a little on luck how quickly they manage to actually hook them and end the match. Similar results can be expected with spirit or blight. ---- That's about as representative of the overall situation as what hens did with his comp friends though, which is not at all.
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Funny, I have the exact opposite experience: if you don't prerun like crazy if a turret is placed right in front of a tunnel it's a more or less free first hit / a greatly reduced chase time until first hit (M2 hit since Xeno takes the moment to break it).
That being said, I am all for your two suggestions. The first I can subscribe to as is, for the second one I think the tunnel spawns have to be adjusted as well though. Cause if survivors should never feel safe around a tunnel and will always be surprised by Xeno emerging from a tunnel that translates to never being safe on any gen and working on a gen means a free it for Xeno. So there would have to be a minimum distance between tunnels and gens. (And tbh that would probably further incentivise more creativity with turret placement - kind alike reverse Trapper ^^)
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Personally, what bugs me about some of the newer killer mechanics is that it's often a terrible deal for survivors in terms of BP and emblems. - I don't mind a completely different playstyle, what I mind is that it's gonna feel like losing even if it was a 4E. If they want to introduce different side objectives / different ways to play matches then they also need to tie a bunch of new score events to it. "Chase" against a killer like Onryo (but also Wraith or Spirit and a couple other phasing/semi ranged killers like Slinger, Knight or Artist) is just not really existent in a match, they just remove an entire score category simply because of how they work on a mechanical level. And in case of Onryo she removes two; chase related score events and unhook related score events.
If playing a match against Onryo correctly would result in eng game screens that reflect the match I'm fairly certain my attitude toward condemn-Onryo would change as well.
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Most of the reshade stuff that got to do with colors could be done hardware side by changing the calibration of the display and for that reason alone it's problematic to ban reshade. (Granted, messing with color calibration to that degree would make a lot of other stuff look like sh* but that's besides the point.)
Personally, I used to use reshade for aesthetic purposes but been back to vanilla, safe for some gamma tweaks (so that I don't have to play in a pretty dark room and also won't be blinded the second I open word with its bright white page) and the sharpen (seriously, 2k texture maps ain't that bad, the blur can be toned done by a lot. ... But alas; blur it is...).
But as others have pointed out: similar to the fps and anti aliasing I would much rather they introduced native settings for gamma and contrast, along with an accessibility option for scratchmarks and the red stain for people who have trouble with the colour red in certain contexts.
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@KaTo1337 said:
Maybe I am alone, but its very fun for me if a well placed turret works as planned. Well, Ive seen so many teammates which place the turrets exactly in front of the tunnel exit. And then they complained in the endgame chat that these things were useless...
Learn to place them a bit hidden nearby a good loop / Junglegym erc.
in theory yes, in practise there are very few actually good placements (read: where the turret actually knocks Xeno out of power semi-reliably). I suppose there may be some new placements available now that there's more placement flexibility, so I'm still on the fence on turrets. It could be that with some experience it's fine now - but it could also be that the turret-addons Xeno got render turrets entirely useless again... which would then require an addon-pass (at least if turrets are supposed to be the main strategy - which seems to be the case, looking at what Peanits said).
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I was one of the people who essentially have stopped playing since Alien release (and the influx of Xenomorphs that came with it - which is normal) precisely because of the two things: a big part of counterplay was supposed to be "put turrets in good locations" but smh most "good locations" got blocked and you could either walk around at snail's speed for 1-2 minutes or settle for a suboptimal spot and resign yourself to the turret being a "Geiger counter". And second, when you did inevitably end up in a chase, in which Xeno is in crawler mode, Xeno would just keep poking until they hit you and that was perfectly fine because they didn't lose any distance doing so. You chased like you were in hitting range - just that you were 4m away which made most mindgames, pathing tricks and whatever else useless - safe for the shift-w-godloops.
This was a significantly different experience than PTB was. The devs, having had two sets of feedback, now rolled the killer back to what it was on PTB and some (turrets). And tbh, maybe the changes are overtuned, given that Xeno was always supposed to slow down after M2 (hit or miss, iirc) but hardly ever (never?) did. I would have liked to see turret placements adjusted and the M2 bug fixed before adding additional slow down to missed M2 attacks (especially one that reads somewhat significant).
On MFT: I think on PTB it was initially laughed at for the measly 2% - Though, people changed their mind very quicky and it didn't take long until concern was voiced in the PTB feedback threads. Which is why I don't understand how it got to live without any changes. That being said, iirc the reddit AMA indicated that MFT is up for the chopping block sometime soon, along with the quarterly perk balance review (iirc they did want to look at perks for re-balancing purposes on a quarterly basis).
Which brings me to the last point: It's not about who screams the loudest or who screams for the longest. It's mostly about what fits into the schedule. From previous releases we know that a few weeks after a chapter is released the killer receives some minor tweaks. When a new perk is released (be that a killer or a survivor perk) it stays as is until the next round of rebalancing, except if it's game breaking.
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@Hanuka5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3540933#Comment_3540933
They do that by bringing SoloQ up to swf
That woud mean that you are buffed when you play SoloQ. How are they doing that? I mean they are not nerfing SWF (that would mean bringing SWF down to soloQ) how is soloq players are beeing buffed that they make up for not knowing the other survivors and having no communication?
The terminology "nerf" or "buff" doesn't apply here. - It's about the basekit. The aim is to minimise the gap between swf and soloQ. The HUD was the last big change in that regard (which made swf for calling out gen progress and chase initiation obsolete). - Imo some form of basekit Kindred and/or Bond would also go a long way (calling out where to reset and being able to call out where to not take chase make big impacts; it's why I always take Bond to soloQ. - Basekit Kindred is a nobrainer but may be unnecessary if the anti-camping mechanic comes through.) --- Those are the things that come to mind right away. The end goal should be that the main difference between SoloQ and SWF is that in SWF you know which kind of people you get and what you can expect from the specific individuals.
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A year and a half or so ago I would probably have agreed. - However, at this point in time the trajectory is kinda clear: the devs aim to close the gap between solo and swf. They do that by bringing SoloQ up to swf, or as close as possible, anyhow. What does that tell us about which one is the baseline/the standard? It's swf not soloQ.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538570#Comment_3538570
The killers that have gotten 1000 wins are one blight main, am I wrong?
It's a blight main, using the strongest perks with the strongest addons.
Tunneling from the start.
Every game.
Just imagine, knightlight and his team would not use their comp ruleset and use whatever they want.
I would gladly see the result.
Also, because that was a hot topic as well. When they played against the "best" chess merchant, they used their comp ruleset as well. Just imagine they didn't do that and used 4 bnps and completely stacked builds with a map offering of their choice.
Do you think the match would have gone on for 50min?
These players handicap themselves hard. I wonder why.
It's almost as if there are exceptional people that should not be used as a point of reference....
Idk if that wasn't clear in the previous post. The whole point was to make obvious that some people (be that eternal, be that hens and the boys, be that that blight or one of the idk how many killers who eventually stopped their winstreak somewhere between 200 and 500 wins) should not be the measuring stick. Hence me suggesting to exclude the fringes from stats. Both Eternal and that blight and people like them would be excluded from those stats - precisely because they tell you very little about what's going on in most matches for most people.
.... this has gone way off topic at this point though (tbh, I thought it was a different thread, was so confused when the notification mentioned medkits...) so I'll politely excuse myself from the discussion. If in doubt let's agree to disagree.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538713#Comment_3538713
And just the same, Xeno can be hard countered with good macro gameplay. It requires getting off gens; which most players are allergic to nowadays, but if you're constantly setting up webs of turrets and running him into them, he has to continuously drop chase or commit as the tallest M1 killer in the game.
my friend, I don't know how often or on which maps you played against Xeno but what you say about turrets is simply not actionable (except maybe in a well coordinated group of people that have memorised viable placements for all maps and tiles - if you think that's an adequate minimal skill requirement then agree to disagree, I guess). If it requires all players to regularly spend 1min+ to traverse the map, get a turret, get it to a viable area and then find a spot where they can actually put it down and where it has a meaningful effect, the way to counter the killer is to actively sabotage the match -- which should not be intended design.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536149#Comment_3536149
Nemesis in T3 has no counterplay either. Every time he pulls up his tentacle, he moves at the same speed as survivors. If you lock to an animation, he gets the hit. If you don't, he continues chase. I fail to understand why people are still making a special exception for Xeno being able to do this somehow being unacceptable.
The important part for Nemmy is the "if he's in T3" --- which takes time to get to and if you start facing survivors who know you need T3 to be a viable killer, they do pretty much everything in their power to delay your T3. If yurvivors know how to, it is very easy to keep Nemo in T1 for the majority of the match.
Between servers, ping and human ability the big question is "should certain attacks be react-able?" I say it makes more sense / it is more consistent to say the default state is non-reactable. The issue comes into play when "reaction" is pretty much the only card you have to play. (Which, as outlined above, is what sets Xeno apart from Nemo; for Nemo the way more important card to play is to not let him get to T3 or at least delay it for as long as possible.)
All that being said; I still reserve final judgement for when they fix the slowdown situation and turret placement (there are just so many tiles where you simply can't place a turret in a viable location). If those two points get addressed Xeno may very well be very much alright (still on the more frustrating side due to an extremely limited set of cards to play against it but bearable).
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538114#Comment_3538114
Ok. Please take a look at knightlight on twitch when he plays with his team. They play in a 4man swf with only one perk per survivor.
Kill rates across all mmr don't mean much. They don't show how the survivor died or how the match went. A killer that has not played the whole match and memed but got all survivors in end game with a cheeky bloodwarden doesn't mean killer is too strong. Just that the survivors got fooled.
If the killer was very good and went for 8 hooks and still had a 4man out doesn't mean survivor is too strong but that the killer played less optimally.
I dislike the stats bhrv offers because they are very vague and arent a good base for a good discussion.
Toolboxes are still extremely oppressive. BNP is stronger in 3 Gen situation and as some players have found out, give only like 2 seconds less compared to before if paired with the best toolbox.
You disregarded all the strong perks I mentioned.
Sorry but again : survivor is in a good spot right now. Anything else is wishful thinking.
two...and a half issue with that tho. afaik even their escape streak hasn't passed the 50 yet (and hens and the boys haven't gotten to 100 either). I'm also not sure if the top 0.1 percent going into pubs is representative in any way shape or form. Not to mention these are people who have played together for years, literally thousands of hours.
Takeaway though: the best of the best surv players can't get past 100 but the best of the best killer players have virtually no issue getting streaks of 1000+ wins.
All that being said: very true, general kill statt mean very little. Killstats that exclude players with less than half the available perks unlocked, and excluding the first 20 matches on a killer, would probably give a better indication of killrates (also potentially exclude the top 2-5% of players in terms of killrates on a given killer)
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among the people I regularly play with there are some who get tilted when some things happen or they had just about enough ######### matches in a row and when they get tilted they get kinda nasty. - Pointing out that there's not really sth else a killer could have done on the occasion where it applies / they do the same when they play killer is usually enough to knock them out of toxicity. But on other occasions the reply to any defense of the killer is a very valid "but except for feeding their ego / being on some kind of power trip, what do they get out of this? - Excatly, nothing" and then getting nasty is, imo, just a very human response (and imo also why we tend to see this somewhat more often on the forums from killers: swf do have their swf to vent to, killers don't).
If playing with people I don't know and/or that react badly to perspective/pointing out where the killer might be coming from I just dip, saying I got other things to do/go play some killer and try to not play with them in the future. - Sometimes some people are only like that in certain constellations, so if I already see them with these people in vc I just don't join.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3534967#Comment_3534967
If I can't see it that doesn't make it any less likely that folks are going to dodge.
It's just going to make folks treat every lobby as if it there is someone with a p100 character in there. So folks will just dodge at the same rate, but for a different reasoning.
I dodge lobbies if the vibes are bad, if there is more than one toolbox, if suspect I've been backfilled. If someone doesn't feel up to playing with you the hidden prestige isn't gonna change that much at all.
I wanna have fun and be mildly challenged which is not an experience I get with p100 survivors cause usually the ones I encounter all have the same hyper competitive loudmouth jerk mentality they can't wait to unload after a match. I simply do not want folks like that in my games in any way at this point in life and when I started dodging p100's fairly consistently wouldn't you know, I saw a decrease in folks with that hyper competitive ego trip and increase in fun whether I won or lost.
With all due respect but I think a good chunk of that impression you have is biased / a misconception.
There are no "vibes" in lobby and the prestige you see is saying pretty much nothing about the player. And if "someone doesn't feel up to playing with you" I do sincerely hope you apply that to all players, those hook suiciding ten seconds into the match included.
For me it's a little more tangible, I'd say: if the people and I play with out high prestige characters (mind you, we're just vibing, chatting and trying to do some of the more stupid archives or something along those lines - the escape rate sits at, what? 15% tops?) we get dodged left and right, on average half a dozen times (in the evenings, during the day a little less - I guess killers too don't like to hang out in Q for long). - A little less now since we get someone who has the prestige hidden as well.
But all that being said, if "the vibes are off" is enough of a reason to dodge a lobby then I guess going forward leaving a lobby will have to be treated the same as a DC.
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Pretty mcuh 100% agree to what pulsar said.
In addition, on "the player can decide if they want to show or hide it": in theory a very nice idea and definitely worth a try but my suspicion is that people will just assume you have a very high prestige if you feel the need to hide it which would change nothing. I assume bhvr has the tools to measure how many lobbys were dodged and if there is a significant difference in dodging rates.
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idk what kinda killers a good chunk of people around here play against or what they're doing all match. - But if you don't closely follow a chase you just won't get close enough to sabo the hook in time - not even with Background Player. The first challenge, where it had to be 3 total, took me a good dozen matches. Second one took about three or so. If a killer isn't blind they'll reroute the second they see someone run toward a hook with a toolbox (they're not stupid; they know this challenge exists) and due to hook placements they more often than not will make one or two other hooks without issue.
That being said, you don't need a swf, but you will most likely throw the game if you want to play a match for the challenge. As mentioned, Backgroundplayer can help, so can Breakout, Saboteur and Alex' TB with sabo speed add-ons (even if you get smacked sabo-ing the hook you'll get the sabo and if the killer smacks you again to down you the other person will be out, so it's effectively a trade without hookstage.
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"Turrets should not have a 100% chance of kicking Xeno out of power, it's all up to Xeno reaction and decision (hit a turret or survivor), also up to survivor's good placements (hiding in the bushes or tall grass)." --- True. But it should also not have a less than a 20% chance of knocking Xeno out of power. Nor should setting one up in a viable location require 20+ seconds, tripe that for the second turret that is pretty much required.
"But even without using turrets, there is a fair chance of wiffing the tail attack, if survivor just simply pushing left\right (juking), or playing against the same way they play against huntress or Nemi." --- That's a practise and patience issue. Try to "wiggle" against a good Nemo or good Huntress and you'll get hit almost always, same goes for Xeno.
"Using tail attack is not THAT easy, let me tell you, it takes with practice and understanding of it's mechanic, but not to the point of "Xeno takes no skill". --- Actually hitting the M2 above obstacles and rendering whole tiles obsolete due to the range and xz drag does take skill. - The "no skill" argument stems from there being effectively no repercussion for not having the skill to actually hit. You just try and try and try again until you do hit. It's like huntress without having to ever reload while having the windup speed add-on.
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As far as i'm concerned it's not a horror game. It's a horror-themed game (read: the aesthetic is taken from the horror genre).
That being said, let's address the three main points you make: asymmetry, turrets and cooldown.
Asymmetry: Overall yes to what you say - though do keep in mind that "just holding W for 7 seconds until first hit and then another 7 seconds until second" is a form of delay too. It's just the most boring version of it. - What makes the process fun is what you can do during that time. And when facing Xeno, that isn't an awful lot due to the many damned if you do damned if you don't scenarios.
Turrets: Let me put it like this: the idea of the turret mechanic is 8/10, the execution is 3/10. There are so many maps with so many spots where you just can't place them in an at all reasonable spot. Plus the slowdown is so massive that carrying a turret to a viable location borders on actively sabotaging the match. (Bonus: you mention "a coordinated team" - which in the case of Xeno means a 4 people swf on comms exclusively; because they are the only ones who can effectively communicate turret placement to make turrets effective.)
Cooldown: I'm holding off on that one cause I've heard a lot that Xeno isn't actually slowing down the way it is supposed to, in which case the cooldown mechanic would be bugged --- which would honestly explain so much.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3532004#Comment_3532004
Basically it boils down to a few key complaints, not ones that I entirely agree with but basically:
- Minimal telegraphing, turning chases into 'guess when the killer is gonna press m2'
- Minimal punishment for missing, the cooldown time might be 3 seconds but from my experience it feels like Xeno is barely slowed down for missing leading to what I'm going to dub 'Pyramid Head syndrome' (aka just spam spam spam until you get a hit).
- Very little build up to having it; it's a strong chase power that's basically always there unless survivors are really good with turrets which, as you can imagine most aren't, In fact I doubt anybody is 'good' with them yet.
- Xeno has addons that make their counterplay even worse. Reduced flame distance, turrets auto destroying, knowing where all of them are when traversing and so on.
- And one last one which is highly subjective but a seemingly generous hitbox AT TIMES. Sometimes it's really easy to dodge, other times I've seen a clip or two of survivors being hit OVER tall obstacles by it. Bizarre.
on survs not being good with turrents yet - the "yet" in particular: I don't think any survivor will ever be able to really get good with turrets. Just see where they can be placed. Try to find a reasonable spot on, e.g. RPD, or in/next to a bunch of standard tiles and you come up empty. Carrying a turret around for 2+ minutes to find a good spot is actively sabotaging the match. There are only so many viable spots within a reasonable carrying distance, and guess what, not just you memorise those spots, the Xeno does too (which turns every viable spot into an obvious, easy to destroy spot).
On hitting with the M2: Drag. Xeno can drag horizontally and vertically. There are scan points along the attack's duration that extend over time - and that can be changed by dragging up or down. This way you can hit around and over obstacles, if you time it right/have the fine motor skills and control needed. The faster you drag the further the scan points are apart; the wider your spread is. A google search for reddit posts on infographics/visualisation of the power should bring up posts that explain better real quick.
as for OP: thank's for the summary, as far as I can tell it really sums up the current perception and state of discussion.
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@CookieBaws said:
Xeno is a chase killer, he has nothing if you don't get caugh. Use turrets, they make noise when Xeno is close(even in tunnels), even in undeplyed state. See/hear turret make noises and it's near you - hide.
Ah, right. The perfect counter strategy of "just don't X". In Xeno's case: to do well in chase, just don't get chased.
In all seriousness though: yes, I imagine that increases your survivability but it doesn't at all address the point of what to actually do in chase. And "don't be in chase at all" runs kinda counter to the game design.
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Ah, right, it seems the lobby resolution is bugged. It's blurry for everyone atm. - For the time being I have ReShade with Luma Sharpen set to max -- that kinda helps.
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@Aceislife said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528831#Comment_3528831
I'll make sure to try that. Thanks.
one quick note I forgot about earlier; since settings have been added to the GameUserSettings you can't copy-paste the entire original ini I think. The fps aside I only changed the scalability options and set game mute on lost focus to True (tabbing out mutes the sound) so I copy-pasted that block at the top and used ctrl-F to find the mute one and change it back to True.
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@Livion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529292#Comment_3529292
Faking windows works really well and as said: give it a few days
only if Xeno doesn't know how to drag quick enough. The lingering hitbox and a xeno with semi-decent reaction time and dpi will usually get the hit. If you fake and spin that may be a different story... but does, imo, not qualify as reliable counterplay.
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It hasn't been long and people need time to figure things out (both sides) --- but there are two things that concern me and I don't know if any amount of figuring things out will be able to remove those concerns.
a) is the damned if you do damned if you don't scenario around windows and vaults. If you don't predrop and have a good chunk of distance on top you just get hit. There's nothing to outplay there, nothing to mindgame, nothing to react to. It's plain "have surplus distance and maintain it".
b) is the incredibly fast charge time. Given how ping works in this game, a Xeno player can play by reacting to what they see on screen; they see a surv start e.g. a vault or drop animation: charge and they get hit. The surv on the other hand is unable to react to the M2 in anyway; human good-average reaction time + ping is already more than the charge time if you and the killer don't happen to both live right next to the server. Add to that drag (which again, Xeno can do based on reaction but the surv can't) - and you kinda even have to remove the prediction game that you have to play on high ping.
If all you can reasonably do is prerun and predrop... that's... well... not exactly fun and interactive.
That being said, I would love to be proven wrong and see people discover ways to actually play chase instead of shift-W+drop whatever you see well in advance.
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OMG I thought I was tripping. Double checked if I got all my settings back and it still was blurry. - Atm I use reshade's luma sharpen to get rid of some of the blur but, well, I rather just have a non-blurry lobby.
(The lobby is blurry regardless of anti aliasing being turned on or off)
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With this update the GameUserSettings got an update as well. You need to save whatever you customised somewhere, then uncheck the "read only" and start the game (there's an fps drop down in game now, as well as the option to turn anti aliasing off \o/ ). Close the game again, open GameUserSettings, customise things the way you like again, save, set to read only and the things you changed should show up in game as well.
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@bornagain234 said:
whow, my apologies. I will check this now thanks!
In case you changed the fps via GameUserSettings you need to uncheck the "read only" since the file itself has been updated with today's patch. Save the scalability options somewhere (and whatever else you may have customised), then uncheck the read only, start the game, close it again, go back to your files and change your GameUserSettings to your personalised settings.
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@CarbonaraCharlie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526691#Comment_3526691
I’m using Nemisis with Lethal and No where to hide. I usually tend to find survivors with distortion on a gen so I kick the gen (Removing one stack) and start chase. Throughout the chase, they rebuild their tokens so that they cannot be found again. This means no matter what I do, distortion is constantly up making 2 of my perks useless.
Tokens are easy to come by because there is no requirement other than being in the killer’s terror radius which happens naturally. Having it be like stakeout or making it so it only builds tokens based on chase would make it require more effort, which would be a good thing. It would still allow for regen though and give people distortion for most of the game.
NTH is very easy to outplay with Distortion though, especially on a non-high-mobility killer like Nemesis. - And even if it was only possible to regain a token out of chase AND it took 20 seconds..... the survivor on that gen who has distortion would still not run out of tokens before the end of the match if they know what they're doing (they would also not be found if you don't make it a point to turn every stone - quite literally. In which case they already wasted about as much of your time as an average chase for one health state is).
I'm not ruling out that Distortion may need some changing somewhere down the line / there might be a better version of the perk - but none of the changes that have been proposed so far would solve your problem.
Also, while I'm aware unsolicited advice is rarely wanted, may I suggest to switch out NTH for Gearhead, Darkness Revealed, the Jill's Sandwich add-on (2stacks lost; 12 sec duration), or Hex: Undying. Why these? Because they eat away at stacks without recharging them at the same time - they can also be used somewhat frequently.
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@CarbonaraCharlie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526662#Comment_3526662
I honestly think lightborn should be nerfed to just giving a longer duration before flashlight blinds can happen. The fact is though that lightborn counters an item, not perks.
Please tell me why distortion is a perk with tokens? Is it because the devs intended it to be up for the entire game? Or is it because it was meant to run out of tokens after a lot of use.
I’m really not asking for much here, just make the token regeneration slower. Aura perks should be countered to an extent by this perk, not completely blocked.
Regarding the why the perk has tokens.
Those who run Distortion usually also pay close attention to their tokens and know when and how to recharge them. (Kinda how killers who have a Scourge Hook will go to great lengths to make sure they get one when they want to.) If they don't run out of tokens that is because they are close to you a lot. There are plenty killers/perks where you run out of tokens regularly if you don't pay very close attention - and some where you always run out of tokens.
If you don't mind my asking; which killer(s) and/or build(s) are you using that gives you so much trouble with Distortion?
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... What makes you think SoloQ is the baseline, though?
Over the last year it's become pretty clear that it isn't. The blanket increase in gen time being the biggest hint. - But also the HUD and the declared dev goal to bring SoloQ closer to swf. - You don't bring your baseline up to something else. You bring something (in this case SoloQ) up to your baseline. - To be fair though, when they say "swf" I don't think they mean 4-person-squads exclusively. The baseline might actually be two duos.
As for showing who is Q-ing up together; I think it's alright as long as leaving a lobby gets a similar penalty system to DCing. Which it should get anyway, given how the reasons that are given for lobby shopping are just as often just as petty as for people DCing a minute into the match.
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Diagree. It's very much a non-issue.
There are some things in this game that are essentially a coinflip: with Distortion you bet on the killer using aura reading - and some killers even have a joker up their sleeve because they spam aura reading and/or you can't regain tokens. A killer bets on a survivor not having Distortion (the odds are very much in the killer's favour).
Seeing that even though aura reading among killers has somewhat increased (esp. Lethal & NTH) Distortion use has hardly increase also tells us, that most survivors think the odds are stacked against them and bringing Distortion isn't worth it.
Depending on how aura reading may change in the future (if more aura reading perks that are viable on a wider variety of killers with different playstyles are introduced) that may change. If Distortion became so prevalent (for whatever reason) that the question would become "is it worth it running an aura reading perk bc there is so much Distortion?" then Distortion would need some looking at.
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Well, generally I don't take issue with showing who's playing together. However, seeing how prevalent lobby dodging is already this has to go hand in hand with mechanic to stop lobby shopping.
A player gets one lobby dodge every three hours. (idk, maybe you Q-ed up but in lobby something happens, the doorbell rings, someone interrupts - idk. Bunch of valid reasons that happen every so often.) - After that the usual DC penalties apply to dodging a lobby.
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On killer side I never played the grab game and found it silly - so no difference there.
On surv side I enjoy the funny dance being gone - especially in soloQ where you don't really have an option other than to try and trade because you can't coordinate with others. Now if you want to trade (and the hook is trade-able) you can without being screwed simply because you Q up by yourself.
Also can't see a reduction in camping because of it - just the huge snowball potential is gone, so less 4k campers. Which is good - looking at a hook shouldn't win you matches if the deciding factor is ping/the server.
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As someone who likes playing nemo I like the zombies and they're not half as useless as people oftentimes claim. - They are actually pretty useful, especially with detection range and/or speed.
That being said. Some patches ago (I think around the time Singu got added...?) they became buggy again and started getting stuck on tiles and objects they didn't get stuck on for a good long while (there was a phase between bots being introduced to kyf and that singu update where I rarely ever had a zombie getting stuck somewhere or failing to detect / path to a survivor).
So really just: zombies need to get whatever got broken recently-ish fixed.
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It can be frustrating - but I don't think it is an issue atm. It is however something to keep an eye out for. - The moment the question of knowing or not knowing a perk is in play impacts the match to such a degree that the outcome of the match is in no small part determined by that one perk.... then it becomes an issue. Tbf though, perks that toe that line are probably more often than not surv perks, simply because surv perks can stack; one Adrenaline is whatever, two can have a serious impact but with three or more we get into the "it's an issue" territory. But even there; there's not really a way to address this. Blanket nerfing the perk means it's useless for the individual user. Keeping it as is means every so often it will be the sole determining factor in how a match plays out.
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Nah, since you get everything that pubs are for out of a DC-Bot-match it's perfectly alright.
Besides, if an entire team decides to rather eat a DC penalty than play that match... then well, I suppose that also speaks for itself