GeneralV
GeneralV
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@Alionis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856802#Comment_3856802
12 June 2018 is when the store first went live and it's what unreleased rift cosmetics default to (i.e. those that only appeared in a rift so far and aren't yet available for purchase in the regular store). It's the one downside of no longer doing the cosmetics manually according to the wiki admins, obviously far outweighed by the automation of the rest.
I know.
Counterpoint: its funny.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857521#Comment_3857521
Ah yes, we have a Dr in my region (OCE) who does exactly this, they are well known for doing this and it has gone on for YEARS. I don't know why players are forced to endure this with no way to get out of it
I don't know why players are forced to endure this with no way to get out of it
Exactly.
Its about time to change that, it is getting unbearable.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857682#Comment_3857682
More in line with Legion, honestly.
Not actually OP, just really unfun and bad design.
I can think of a few other killers who fit this description.
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I give up and go play survivor.
Meanwhile, the survivor experience:
Awesome event.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857656#Comment_3857656
I was mistaken, my bad, this has been seven years now, forgive me.
Knight was considered very problematic on release due to his Guards and his being able to hold games hostage.
No worries :)
Knight was considered very problematic on release due to his Guards and his being able to hold games hostage.
Yes, but not quite in the same level. You can find some complaints about Knight, sure.
But it doesn't seem to me he was ever considered a problem of the same category as PTB Twins, or Old Legion.
@BlackRose89 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857657#Comment_3857657
There was no bait and switch at all. All we got from a teaser was a picture of a skill with some tech in it. It's the community's fault for reading so much into a teaser and just believing we was going to get a cyborg killer. Ppl set themselves up for failure, BHVR didn't bait and switch them. As for the other stuff, all of it is subjective even her lore imo. I liked her design, I liked the idea of a killer using drones, and I liked her lore. Sure her power was poorly designed at first but the idea behind her power was cool and imo her last rework did fix a lot of the issues her power had on release. Also about her Lore, it may been poorly written to some but at least it was different! Before her all-female original killers lore always painted them as victims, nothing super original in their stories whatsoever. At least SM is a killer bc she wants to kill ppl, she was forced or felt like she needed to kill bc some tragic event that happened in her life. Name one female killer in dbd that devs came up with themselves that is not some victim?
Either way, I agree with GeneralV you don't rework her and tell ppl to learn to play against her. Maybe even make videos on how to counter her and play against her. She didn't need another rework after her last one. At most, she just needs some small changes to raise her skill floor and raise her skill ceiling. Again after her last rework, BHVR didn't touch her again till this past oct when they decided to nerf her to the ground with the promise of a future rework that could take years to do. If they put in the same effort into SM as they are doing to newer killers like Dracala and Chucky then she would most likly be in a even better spot. I don't think the rework will do anything bc ppl will continue to hold their hatred for her and will DC/go next against her no matter what her power is. This means all the time she is in a such poor state and the time the dev is wasting on reworking her will amount to nothing. Time that could be used for much more important things.
Either way, I agree with GeneralV you don't rework her and tell ppl to learn to play against her.
Thank you, my friend <3
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857641#Comment_3857641
You couldn't wake up someone slugged, and since Freddy had perma-aura reading on anyone asleep, he was very good at keeping people down, especially since you wouldn't wake up after being healed.
There was also less of a window for Survivors to make distance after being put to sleep, since Freddy didn't really slow down at all when doing so. Iirc, he also vaulted a little faster, for some reason.
Knight could do the same thing as SM on release, we've seen it in plenty of videos, yet he isn't nearly as hated.
Quite the contrary, you did wake up someone who got slugged. You can see it in this video at 07:19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J0zdxZYWqsIf you are asleep, then you can't wake up someone who got slugged, but you can pick them up. Even with with the Dream World penalty if the person recovers as much as possible it should be enough to get them off the ground, especially against a killer who lacks mobility.
There was also less of a window for Survivors to make distance after being put to sleep, since Freddy didn't really slow down at all when doing so
1 second, later increased to 3 after the nerfs. However, this was both on the Freddy player and the survivor. The lullaby gives you a warning, plus you have 7 seconds at base to find something to use, back when maps had more resources. If you fail, then Freddy should indeed get the hit.
Knight could do the same thing as SM on release, we've seen it in plenty of videos, yet he isn't nearly as hated.
Because Knight wasn't regarded as a problematic killer like Old Legion, OG Merchant or PTB Twins.
He may have been disliked, but he didn't reach this level. So Knight would never reach this level. That is why the data for them are different.
@BlackRose89 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857641#Comment_3857641
I like to add she was hated the second they even showed her off. I remember seeing threads in the forums about how ppl hated how she looked, how boring her power was, how her lore sucked, she wasn't the cyborg killer ppl thought she was going to be, and how she was some how a failed predator chapter. Chess Merchant only added even more fuel to the hated fire. With all that has happen to SM, I firmly believe she will forever be the most hated killer in dbd history and ppl will continue to go next against her even after her next rework.
I do agree that they shouldn't have nerfed her and instead told the community that they needed to learn to play against her. I think her last rework put her in a decent spot and she could have been better with some balance changes(remember the didn't even try to torch her after her last rework, she didn't get a single balance change before they completed nerfed her to the ground). She doesn't need another complete rework, her last version was fine and just needed some small changes.
I do agree that they shouldn't have nerfed her and instead told the community that they needed to learn to play against her.
Well said, friend.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857620#Comment_3857620
I seem to remember that initially if Freddy played slug. The survivor had to wake up first and only then start heal the survivor. Perhaps the survivors received psychological trauma from this and remembered it to Freddy. But I don't remember if it was on PTB or release.
You know, I find it a bit ironic that Freddy could become a proto slugger. I personally used it to defend 3 generators for 30 minutes in 2022, when Skull Merchant was not yet in the project.
I loved it, but now it physically hurts me to play it.
That was on release, yes. But the slugging alone shouldn't have been enough to cause such distress. Waking someone up takes, like, 3 seconds? Shouldn't be impossible to deal with.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857610#Comment_3857610
The data tells you something is wrong with SM because even other hated Killers aren't that high.
It's something unique to her. Pinhead isn't like that, Nurse isn't, Knight isn't, etc etc
Because the other hated killers didn't have a problematic release.
Well, Nurse was always OP, but it was a vastly different game back then. None of those have a "Chess Merchant" of their own (though that had more to do with the build, rather than the killer power, but that is beside the point).
That makes the data for her different than others, but still doesn't tell you everything.
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I've really tried my best to understand why this thing has ever happened, but I couldn't.
I've read countless DLC reviews from back then. That was easily one of my worst and most infuriating DBD-related experiences I've ever had and one that I'll never try again.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857553#Comment_3857553
Except, even then, her KR was 70%.
DC matches aren't even counted.
There is CLEARLY something problematic there.
Of course her kill rate would be high when people always DC. If they decided to stay in the game, they would have no idea what to do.
Also, in matches where a DC happens the remaining survivors are kinda screwed, there is nothing they can do. And even if you exclude ever single match where there is a DC, there are ways to bypass it: suicide on hook, people who try to suicide on hook but can't because one teammate saves them, then they just give up, players who get slugged for extended periods of time, and the list goes on.
I don't think the kill rates are reliable. Freddy has the fourth highest in the game, and he is not a good character at all. The data doesn't tell you everything..
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857293#Comment_3857293
if player are d/cing 33%-50% of the matches, the game is 3vs1 in half the matches. I don't think that is a problem with skull merchant itself. More of a problem of entitled survivors. Looks like d/cing has stopped because her kill-rate is near very bottom. I'm sure there is still some random baby rage d/c here and there but majority of the matches seem to be played out.
The DCs do still happen:
No camping, no tunneling, no slugging, no BM of any kind. Just the character.
It just confirms what I've been saying: those who refuse to learn how to play against a character that isn't problematic should never get their way. This isn't how things should be done.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857522#Comment_3857522
So if, let's be generous and say, 60% of players find something to be so unpleasant they'd rather eat a penalty than chance playing against it, we should simply ignore it?
We should disregard that feedback and carry on? That seems like a very poor idea. Imagine if we had done that with PTB buffed Twins. "Oh, most of our community hates this Killer and finds matches against them unbearable? Oh well, they'll just have to get used to it"
Not a great idea, as I'm sure you can see.
But here is the thing, my friend, PTB Twins is not equivalent to previous Skull Merchant. When it comes to PTB Twins, the problem is actually real. Just like Old Legion, a terribly designed killer that we both remember all too well. In those scenarios the problem is actually there, which can be seen during regular gameplay.
The previous iteration of Skull Merchant is more similar to OG Freddy, where the problem doesn't exist it. The outrage is not caused by an actual issue that exists in the game, it is done in bad faith. It is the consequence of some players refusing to adapt to something that isn't a problem in the first place. It is a type of behavior that should never be rewarded, though unfortunately it was rewarded twice.
You cannot get used to something that is problematic. But you can get used to something that isn't.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857419#Comment_3857419
The previous iteration was STILL extremely tedious to play against. Matches took far too long when played out.
I wish there was a middle ground, but there really wasn't for her.
SM players aren't going to get what they want until there's a rework and even then, her reputation might be beyond salvaging. Not sure what you do at that point.
They weren't, my friend. The games were perfectly fine, even better than matches against most of the killer roster, I would say.
There was a middle ground, an acceptable state, and it got destroyed because the petty DCs did not stop. It is the problem of players refusing to adapt, friend, just like Freddy. Same results, different killers.
I honestly believe all of her recent nerfs should be reverted, the rework scrapped, and players should be explicitly told to learn how to play against the character. To not DC, to stick around and get used to the drones. Nobody ever improves in DBD if all they do is disconnect.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
Had this several times today and it just adds to the frustration of annoying killers with obnoxious builds who want to prolong the misery of matches because gotta get that 4k….
I feel a break is coming on for me and DBD, I just cant do this every day.
I have not escaped a SINGLE time today and the only fun killer we had was a Huntress who DC'd
Unfortunately I just had one of those, with the exact type of build you've mentioned:
Props to this Nea because her last chase was good, really gave Doc a run for his money, but with Knock Out in effect I don't think she was able to find anyone (and I have a strong suspicion someone was downed inside the tower).
But this is ridiculous.
Some players are pushing it too far, to the point where I am certain something will be done to address this situation. And if we get an anti-slug mechanic, I hope it is way stronger than the AFC. I don't think this specific playstyle should still be allowed to exist.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857422#Comment_3857422
I'm trying to get him to at least P21 before his rework next month!
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HSQWVYLV55A7/193d036677792-screenshoturl.jpg
You can do it, my friend!
I believe in you!
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857411#Comment_3857411
They certainly are. Hopefully they'll Kill switch them and turn on a Bloodhunt.
I agree, my friend. That would be nice.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857284#Comment_3857284
Most SM's were already going to show up to the gen as part of their patrol. They don't get slowed down, they'll just pass near the gen and drop a drone on it while they chase people off.
That minigame is also not as easy on Console.
No, I didn't touch SM after I learned what she was. I did have the unfortunate pleasure to play against her though. If most players find something problematic why shouldn't we fix it? If SM is killing normal players at a 70% KR, but high level players at a 50% KR, that SHOULD be a sign that there's something hugely wrong.
What you actually found with SM was that it was higher level players that just went next. She was completely beatable, but she was extremely tedious to go against and a lot of those players don't like that part of the game, which is fair.
If most players find something problematic why shouldn't we fix it?
Because they didn't even try, and that is the point.
Many players were so blinded by hatred for the original iteration of the character, which no longer existed, that they would DC or give up immediately, when it was absolutely not needed. If you don't stick around, then you'll never understand the fact that the character no longer causes any actual problems for the game.
This is people refusing to learn how to play against something, and it wasn't the first time it happened. Freddy's release is another example. And both got the character nerfed, when neither character needed the nerfs. Refusing to learn how to play against a character that is not problematic is something that should never be rewarded.
The previous iteration of Skull Merchant was perfectly fine, and in fact she wasn't hard to play against at all. I can even share some screenshots to prove it. Games where people decided to stick around and actually play the game.
@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3855512#Comment_3855512
I'm not convinced the outcry was in good faith. And doesn't your last sentence contradict what you just said? They did change fast, and the add-on was nerfed as a result.
I'm not convinced the outcry was in good faith
I'm positive it wasn't.
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Hexes are perks with powerful effects that can be removed, and that is the point.
They can be removed. They are not supposed to last the entire match, it wouldn't be balanced if they did.
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Yeah, I am pretty sure they are bugged.
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I think it is alright, especially considering Dracula already has other stuff to use.
Abilities that ignore resources such as pallets and windows can never be oppressive because… well, they ignore resources. The only thing survivors have at their disposal. Therefore, such resources have to be useful, otherwise playing survivor has no point.
Hellfire needs to have an increased cooldown, it is fine as it currently is.
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@tjt85 said:
Personally, I like the moving snowmen. They add a bit of extra chaos into the mix which I find leads to some funny moments. Then again, I never take these event / modifier modes all that seriously and lose most of my trials because I'm too busy wasting time interacting with the snow skulls and snowmen, but I can see them being annoying to some people.
I do wish bot snowmen had a smoother movement animation, though. It's VERY easy to tell the bots apart from those that have an actual player inside, so more observant players will definitely know you're in there.
I do wish bot snowmen had a smoother movement animation, though. It's VERY easy to tell the bots apart from those that have an actual player inside, so more observant players will definitely know you're in there.
You just need to move like a bot. Trust me, it works.
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@danielmaster87 said:
The whole scourge hook mechanic is just bad design. Ideally, it's made the way it is so that the killer has to go to 1 specific hook, as opposed to another one which might be better positioned in case he wants to come back. But being limited to only 4 and having their spawns be random instead of equally spaced means that the killer straight-up doesn't get to use their perk some matches, which can literally cost them the game.
And people are calling that good design: "Sometimes, the killer shouldn't get to use their perk that they equipped. Otherwise, it's mindless/skilless." But imagine that applied to a survivor perk. Imagine, because of some random RNG thing, you should have been able to use DS or Dead Hard because you met the conditions, but got locked out from doing so. It would be a riot. I know it's hard to draw these comparisons but, well, there isn't anything quite like bad hook RNG in the game.
The simplest response to this argument I've heard is, "Well, if we made a scourge hook perk work for every hook, then it wouldn't be a scourge hook, would it?" It's a moot point. If that aspect of the perk(s) must go, so be it. You can't use lore or original design limitations to say, "You're not allowed to balance this perk in this way." A wise man recently said, "If something exists in your game, you have to ask the question: 'How does this improve the game?'."
The killer can tunnel you then slug to avoid DS, it happens.
You met the conditions, but got locked out due to something outside of your control.
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@Berienn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3852849#Comment_3852849
your goal as killer is to kill survivors, not let anyone escape.. the game is designed to encourage killers to kill every single one
But you can't design the game around the last survivor being helpless, either.
The moment you can secure a 3k, you've already won. The last one escaping isn't a big deal.
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Its alright, not a bad map.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
So anyone by chance know, why do they insist on using British spelling of words even when the game itself uses American/Canadian? Like the game says Hemorrhage but they insist on spelling it Haemorrhage.
I don't know, but what I do know is that one of Skull Merchant's cosmetics is stated to have been released in 2018, and thats pretty funny.
Edit:
Here it is:
2018 Skull Merchant was one of my favorite killers, no cap.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856416#Comment_3856416
Killers can choose to slug if they wish, it can be an effective method and the image shows the killer is picking a survivor up so likely to pick the rest up (if they can be found). It doesn't seem like that killer in the image is sluggish out of toxicity. My question remains tho, how does a killer manage to slug a whole team in that way? Why has no one healed any team mates? Not much difference to being hooked and no one going for the unhook. If killer was camping them then it gives 4min for others to do gens at least. From my experience if a whole team of 4 gets slugged like that it's skill issues on the survivor side.
They can, for now. But they shouldn't. Its done without reason.
Imagine a different example: a player wants to insult everyone, his teammates and the killer, in the post-game chat. They can do that, of course. But should they? No, of course not.
how does a killer manage to slug a whole team in that way?
Hillbilly. One who knew how to play. Who definitely could have won without slugging.
Why has no one healed any team mates?
I tried to.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/434928/option-to-bleed-out-faster-when
I think the question is how did the whole team get slugged to begin with? Usually it's because whole team tries to play toxic and team blind/body block the killer when they try hook. If they do that then it's fair game. But if people are spread out doing gens then the killer shouldn't really be able to slug the whole team.. unless the team refused to heal the slugs.
I don't think that is correct. Here is an example I can give:
This was shortly after the Halloween event.
Clearly no gen rushing there. All four of us were solo queue players, no one had a flashlight, no one tbagged, no one tried to bodyblock because the killer didn't try to hook anyone until all four were down. No one was downed under a pallet, and iirc, no one had the Flashbang perk.
There is nothing that explains this situation except for the killer choosing to slug, which is usually the only reason these games happen.
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I didn't get it at all until I used an offering.
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@jesterkind said:
I'm not sure why people count the Twins rework in this conversation, that was very obviously a different situation- not least because the Twins were in fact buffed from where they were before, not nerfed.
That being said, I also don't much like this precedent, though we must also acknowledge why it's happening. It's happened to two things so far - Skull Merchant and the Knotted Rope addon - and both have a specific reason that they happened. Not good reasons, but it is more specific than just "they didn't like the thing".
To be constructive about the Knotted Rope - as I've spoken about Skull Merchant ad nauseum already lol - I recognise the concern BHVR had with it being a problem over the period that they wouldn't be around to fix it, and I'd like to offer this olive branch: You should've killswitched it instead.
That isn't what the killswitch is for, of course, and it'd set a bad precedent too with people thinking anything they think is simply unbalanced and nothing more could also be killswitched, but I think that would've been a less distasteful situation than just flat out making the thing worthless.
Personally, I just would've left it as is and took the risk that people made it obnoxious, but if action needed to be taken I think bending the rules on the killswitch would've been healthier than the road they did take.
Personally, I just would've left it as is
I would have done that with Skull Merchant.
In my opinion, most of the complaints were ridiculous, she was perfectly fine the way she was. The way I see it, it is nothing more than people refusing to adapt and learn how to play against the character.
Very similar to Freddy's release in 2017. With the same results, sadly.
@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856378#Comment_3856378
Clearly the Devs had a very good reason. They wanted to support other game studios. Now I'm no longer thinking of putting time into Houndmaster and instead... I'm gonna be spending Christmas break maining Jeff.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8ULERBAFXCSO/9473262-jeff.jpg
@REBELJ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856379#Comment_3856379
Marvel Rivals is incredibly fun and I don't like Marvel. It's amazing how a fun and a decent or well developed game can make all the difference in the world. I'm maining Punisher right now and positioning with him rewards me. I can't wait to play Dr. Doom when he comes out eventually.
Oh did you also try Civilization? Cote sugggested us to play Civ 5.
I absolutely loved Scarlet Witch. She is awesome to play!
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3855659#Comment_3855659
Nurse was killswitched because the bug actually made the game completely unplayable for her not because she was OP if I recall correctly. SM was essentially killswitched into an M1 killer simply because people didn't want to learn her power and didn't realize every complaint about her was just invalidated back when they reworked her the first time.
This.
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Yes, he is.
That's what I've been saying for a while now. This killer is poorly designed.
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I'm glad you do, my friend!
Freddy's rework was one of the worst changes in DBD's history.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3855831#Comment_3855831
Here you go friend:
https://youtu.be/VIb5XR0tmKI?si=X0w0OVmY8zziWdZV
As a bonus, here is a chase I had against Trickster as well yesterday I believe.
https://youtu.be/_5CBGASy91M?si=6Sh_ZAQL_V-5EgDI
It just takes a lot of time and practice, but just know to pre-drop a pallet against Xenomorph and crouch away!
Edit: Honestly, you just gotta believe and hope in some cases to not get hit and you'll be pleasantly surprised on what you can get from this game, haha.
Thank you, friend!
I need to master this ability. Really tired of that tail attack.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3855811#Comment_3855811
Lmao, I was surprised when it even happened. I can show you the video if you want to see it. 🤣
I was playing Ace with only Self Care as I was doing the dreaded challenge to escape while only using Self Care. ☠️ I did it on RPD in particular. I think it's mostly timing and the angle where Xenomorph shoots his tail at you. I always just instinctively drop a pallet and crouch under to avoid the tail. Just takes practice is all. 😊
I can show you the video if you want to see it. 🤣
If you're willing to share it, I'll happily accept, friend.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3855803#Comment_3855803
Yes, I have a video where I consistently dodged Xenomorph's tail attack three times over a pallet. It is doable, just a little trickier.
Please, teach me.
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in what part of the world does a player not want to learn how to play a game they paid for?
Freddy's release.
Sorry, I understand the point of the post and, for the most part, I agree.
But we have two very clear examples of situations where people actually refused to learn.
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Does this thing work against Xeno?
I always try to do it and it never goes well.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
Freddy is due to rework and I expect him to get nerfed right after it, since survivors seem to be incapable of dealing with any killer with 4v1 focused kit.
I expect him to get nerfed right after it
Not again….
Please, not again.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3855253#Comment_3855253
It wasn't even comp DBD though. The killer wasn't comp. As far as I'm aware he had pretty minimal hours as SM, against a team that had collectively well over 10k hours. It was literally your average Joe player holding down one of the best survivor swfs lol
But the survivors were.
Even if they didn't follow the rules of comp I very much doubted that match was an accurate portrayal of how a game with average players would go.
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3855253#Comment_3855253
Agree.
Could you provide some insight into your findings?
Sure!
From what I've seen so far, it seems to me the whole "Chess Merchant" had more to do with the Gen Kick meta than her actual power. Except for the add-on which affected Skill Checks.
Getting rid of her drones is not difficult, in fact it can be done rather easily. But how do you progress the gens afterwards if a single generator kick is extremely damaging? Not to mention the whole mess that was Eruption.
And it is something I noticed in the videos that I was watching, the ones where the killer didn't use the infamous Overcharge + Call of Brine + Eruption meta the games didn't have a 3 generator defense. Some of which didn't even reach that point of the game, which can happen in a DBD match against any killer.
Players directed their feelings towards the character because she had a good synergy with the build and playstyle, but I believe the root of the problem was something else.
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3855619#Comment_3855619
The huge problem though here is that the killer is incentivized to almost never be "far across the map" from the drones.
She's an area denial killer, with a pretty large area. When she first released, people pretty much instantly realized that camping a 3 gen was the go-to way to play her. That's a big part of why it took several perk nerfs, her first rework, and a new base kit mechanic to finally kill off the 3 gen meta.
She also wants to call back her drone (instantly, "deactivated" or not, mind you) and place it again in the same spot.
And while you can go through the effort to avoid her drone beams by crouch walking or by timing, she's usually nearby and can just interrupt your little DDR session.
And, this is the kicker, none of the "counter play" is possible in chase. Crouch walk gives up a hit, you lose a health state. Max out your bar staying in an active drone, you lose a health state. The only answer to "she drops a drone in chase" is to hold w and leave... And she can just pick up the drone by looking at it from anywhere, nearly instantly, and do it again.
And that doesn't even touch on the laundry list of buffs and debuffs that happened during this process.
She has needed a rework for a long time.
The huge problem though here is that the killer is incentivized to almost never be "far across the map" from the drones.
That isn't a problem, if the killer is close they are supposed to get value from using their power. That is how a killer works.
And besides, other characters are way more oppressive in chase than her. The injury takes three scans, the drone cannot down you, and the haste she gets, while very useful, doesn't guarantee a hit, depending on the tile and how it is played.
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The first three rules I actually agree with, because that is how I learned to play DBD.
Generally disliked strategies have always existed, but back in the day it was reasonable to expect most killers you were playing against to go for 12 hooks. That was simply the way things were, most of the time.
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Well, she didn't set a precedent, she reinforced a terrible, unhealthy precedent that already existed in DBD.
Freddy set it, when he was nerfed a week after his release because people refused to learn how to play against him.
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3855269#Comment_3855269
What you said about Skull Merchant was spot on. Its why I've heavily moved away from DBD and really hate playing now a days. I dont even have a killer I enjoy anymore lol
I know how it feels, my friend. It is the same thing Freddy mains had to go through. Thrice, actually.
Skull Merchant was treated so unfairly that it stings. In a way it stings more than Freddy and Hillbilly because this situation is something that experience and DBD's history should have taught to avoid.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3855253#Comment_3855253
In average matches, the biggest complaint was that survivors would get "randomly injured from across the map" and that was "free hits the killer didn't deserve to get". Survivors really don't like traps that automatically trigger or automatically alert the killer, which is why Hag's traps got triple nerfed, and it's why Demo's lifeguard whistle got completely reworked.
And the worst thing is… survivors can avoid the injure. Rather easily in fact, if the killer is across the map.
It really shows you people never bothered to learn how to play against her.
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@ASurvkillivorer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3851234#Comment_3851234
Well, we all know this game and what goes on. She never was that strong. Her first version was pretty dang good but the problem there was she was good because of survivors GIVING UP. I rememebr testing her and playing a way I thought was unbeatable. It was possible to defeat her and it all depended on survivors simply REFUSING to do gens in the drone field.
THey were terrified of exposed. yet when you're plague every just loops while broken anways. its so odd.
Even as this new weak version many people DC against me.
Even as this new weak version many people DC against me.
Surprisingly I haven't been getting as many DCs with her as I thought I would, but it does happen yes.
Also one of the many reasons why I believe all of her recent nerfs should be reverted. If the petty DCs won't stop, then there was no reason to gut her.
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@Skittlesthehusky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3855269#Comment_3855269
hello general! i figured you were gonna show up eventually ;] how's freddy's #1 fan doing?
The balance is where things begin to get a little bit worse, with one decision in particular: Skull Merchant's nerfs.
Quite possibly one of the worst, most unnecessary changes I've seen since I first started playing DBD, all the way back in 2018. Her previous iteration was fine the way she was, this execution was not needed and it reward players who refused to learn how to play against a character who wasn't problematic in the first place. It is very similar to what happened to Freddy one week after his release in 2017, and something that I strongly believe shouldn't have happened.
i heavily agree with you. i seriously hope they reconsider giving back skull merchant some of her strength and instead balance things out by providing more information to survivors for them to work with. i was upset that she received the freddy treatment and i'm glad someone else saw it too.
this is actually part of the reason why i mentioned the lack of direction and instructions for players. i believe that while it's good to allow a player to experience and learn for themselves, constantly forcing them to go in blind can give too strong of a sense of hopelessness or weakness, especially if they only run into that character every once in a while and have no time to adapt.I'm doing great, my friend! Thank for asking!
How about you?
i heavily agree with you. i seriously hope they reconsider giving back skull merchant some of her strength and instead balance things out by providing more information to survivors for them to work with. i was upset that she received the freddy treatment and i'm glad someone else saw it too.
Oh absolutely.
I know she is a set for a rework next year, but we all know how reworks usually go. I would prefer if they just reverted her to a previous iteration and scrap the rework. Freddy's history is a perfect example of what to avoid, and it shouldn't be repeating itself.
this is actually part of the reason why i mentioned the lack of direction and instructions for players. i believe that while it's good to allow a player to experience and learn for themselves, constantly forcing them to go in blind can give too strong of a sense of hopelessness or weakness, especially if they only run into that character every once in a while and have no time to adapt.
I agree. In the past it was reasonable because there was less to learn, but that isn't the case anymore. Even a little tutorial for each killer would help a lot.
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Hello friend! Good to see you here!
what do you think was done right or wrong? why do you believe so?
Well, 2024 was quite the year for DBD. Overall I'd say the experience was mostly positive, but with a few exceptions here and there.
I really liked the idea of the modifiers changing the game as we know it, despite my dissatisfaction with Freddy being excluded from Lights Out twice. Generally speaking the chapters and the content we got were pretty good. Doomed Course is a bit mid, but All Things Wicked and Castlevania really took the spotlight, those chapters were amazing.
The events were also pretty good, except for the anniversary. Blood Moon had probably the best visuals of any event, and Haunted by Daylight was the most fun I've had with DBD since the days of the Old DBD, and that says something.
The balance is where things begin to get a little bit worse, with one decision in particular: Skull Merchant's nerfs.
Quite possibly one of the worst, most unnecessary changes I've seen since I first started playing DBD, all the way back in 2018. Her previous iteration was fine the way she was, this execution was not needed and it reward players who refused to learn how to play against a character who wasn't problematic in the first place. It is very similar to what happened to Freddy one week after his release in 2017, and something that I strongly believe shouldn't have happened.
has your playtime increased or decreased throughout the year?
Increased.
Shadow of the Erdtree took a bit of my time, yes, but overall I played a lot of DBD this year. Didn't take any extended breaks from the game, and I do not regret it.
how do you perceive the developers' areas of focus on the game? are you satisfied with BHVR's performance (in the context of the game, or the company itself)? how could they improve their relationship with you as a player?
This one is a bit hard to answer right now because of the upcoming Freddy rework, which is something that means A LOT to me.
What will happen next January will most likely have a very big impact on my opinion regarding BHVR and their approach towards DBD.
The fact that we have confirmation Freddy won't get his old power back is already a bit concerning, but we still have to wait and see what is really going to happen.
what is your current experience at your current skill level?
Not terrible, but the tunneling and unnecessary slugging has been a bit too much as survivor. As killer, I don't think there is much being stacked against the killer role right now. Not saying that I win all of my games, because I don't, but there isn't anything in particular that I would describe as the culprit behind my defeats.
All things considered, I'm excited for 2025 DBD.
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@radiantHero23 said:
Tbf. These people did limit themselves and tried out different strategies mid match. If they played the same strategy from the beginning without any restrictions, I do think they would have beaten that player in less than 20min.
However, as a team like this (very good comp people without any restrictions) is literally the strongest thing you can encounter in dbd, this isn't saying much.
Chess merchant was op for public matches.
Well, recently I've been researching and learning as much as I can about Skull Merchant, and honestly one of the things I've concluded is that the infamous match everyone knows about isn't really proof of anything.
Meaningless, I would say. As comp DBD always is.
Which is why I've requested help to find videos of Skull Merchant's original iteration being played as and against players of average skill. And the results were interesting, to say the least.
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@jasonq500 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3855244#Comment_3855244
You never know, knight got changed outside the ptb and he wasn't mentioned in the roadmap of balance
Thats true, yeah.
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I agree!
This is a good collection.
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@jasonq500 said:
Probably not until the big patch with the Fredrick rework sadly
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3855117#Comment_3855117
Chucky was definitely better when he didn't get nerf this patch
Well, as far as we know the only killer getting changes in January is Freddy.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3854744#Comment_3854744
I admit i hated it at first, but as i started to play more and more i realize how good of a change it was.
I still dislike it, tbh.
It basically removes the synergy Ruin had with perks like Pop or Overcharge.