For_The_People
For_The_People
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@Sandt21 said:
Why not make it a DBD game that isn't DBD?
Bear with me. I propose.......a DBD 2D fighting game in the vain of Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter.
DBD has plenty of original killers, each with loads of personality and a unique power. I could easily see a 2D fighting game where the killers duke it out. If built with enough quality, it could even see tournament play at EVO. Plus, plenty of maps in the Entity's realm would make great fighting game stages.
You could even tie it into DBD's overall lore. We could say that the killers fight each other and hone their skills out of boredom while waiting for their next trial to start.
Thoughts?
Defo has spin off potential :)
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As a long time lurker and recent nooby contributor, its unfortunate that comments on most threads tend to attract irrational and antagonistic replies, often laced with scourn, seething contempt and repetitive one-upmanship.
I’m a survivor main who doesn’t really play killer (I can’t play first person view) and I come to this forum which I would say has a more killer main heavy representation - though many are very rational and fair in their views even when I don’t necessarily agree. But I do so to try and learn what issues killers have as it’s not one I relate to naturally. I’m pleasantly surprised to have had many killers present their points in a way that I have genuinely been educated.
But when there is such partisan almost feverous ‘us v them’-ness it just becomes tedious. Always seems to be the same handful who sabotage any thread or discussion with the same repetitive rejections of what I feel are important discussions.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428591#Comment_3428591
That's how I like to play but I can also understand some people thinking "I'll get this match over quick with and go to the next". I've had matches as killer where the survivors are so bad I've had to go and hide in a corner or gens won't get done. Very boring.
Yesterday I had a match against a Huntress who was obviously inexperienced - problem was that it’s hard to tell when we’re in the corner of a map doing gens praying it’s not gonna be a iri head, lethal hot shot killer. I play with friends but without voice comms so sometimes it’s hard to communicate that it’s best to ease off until someone mentions it in chat that it might be an inexperienced player.
in this case yesterday, we did a couple of gens then ‘trained’ the killer - gained her trust by letting her hit, then hook. She got on board and I set up a boon exponential and we all went on different spots allowing her to aim and hit us, reload at lockers and practice targets. We all got up cos of the boon and let her keep getting us from different angles.
rather than just farm, in this match we like to think we all had fun and not just points for hooking and unhooking and doing gens/pallets on killer. The killer actually got really good as well and we joked “we’ve created a monster!”
actually I’m a pretty bad survivor even now but when I was a total noob, I remember and cherished the occasional killers who, even though they were so far better than me that they could literally have killed me in moments, instead took the time to practice with me instead - basic loops, even hitting skill checks which was hard for me at the time.
That’s why I’ll try to never let a baby killer get 0 hooks at the very least. If I’m at iri 1, I’ll always let a less experienced killer kill me if we totally outplayed them due to the difference in abilities. Or if I know killer brought a mori, may as well let them use it on me if we already won the game.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Hitting on the hook is just giving people a chance to unhook safely.
Never go to an Exit Gate when you know they are open and somebody is hoping to taunt ... go to the closed Gate, or the farthest corner away from both, and wait for the occasional idiot who shows up trying to be a d!ck. Easy kill.
As Survivor, once the gate is open I generally GTFO. Next game.
Also, I can only be messaged/contacted by people on my Friends List, so I never see any toxic chat (or gg, for that matter).
Hey! Don’t you walk away - Come back here and take these bags dammit!!
jk but this actually reminded me of a soloQ match recently where a Nea who hid the whole match -no gens and didn’t come for ANY unhooks on the rest of us - waited at the gates to bag and then went looking for the killer.. they got smacked, then they tried running to exit but died to the EGC inches away lol
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@Veroles said:
I personally absolutely don't care. For me the killer does not slap myself in real life, he/she slaps my character for a what ever reason. I do not know this person at all anyway. Maybe a bad day, maybe a bad round before, maybe full of frustration. Only god knows what happened, but for me it is simply not worth to get upset because of that.
I had a time where it bugged me, but the more i thought about it the more i came to the conclusion that's absolutely not worth to waste any of my energy for such a senseless behavior.
All what happens is:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/MB7HR543712M/i-better-leave.gif
The problem is that not everybody will have that level of composure. Some feel wronged to the point they’ll lash out at the other side in the next game and that cycle just continues and ultimately breed toxicity.
obviously I think your method is best but as with all good advice is, it’s hard to follow or put in practice for the majority. We all know it’s good to exercise - those who are fit and do will make fine and rational cases for why everyone should. But the reality is most won’t.
for that reason I think there should be some game mechanic/design to help prevent the temptation on both sides.
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@Haven414 said:
laugh it off and cope. i'm a killer main and i am all for t-bags and clicking. makes the game interesting and reminds you that you're playing with real people
Have you noticed how some bots are seriously toxic tho? lol I had a custom game with my friends and was shocked cos none of my friends of I usually do that kind of stuff so to see a bot doing clicky clicky and bags was frankly hilarious lol
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@Gibberish said:
This is exactly what the Finisher Mori would prevent honestly.
Just end the match as soon as there are no standing Survivors left.
This prevents:
1) Killers deliberately bleeding out Survivors, just to be an ass to the Survivors.
2) Survivors crawling 300 miles across the map to where the Killer cant find them to deliberatley bleed themselves out, just to be an ass to the Killer.
3) Survivors going to areas where there is no hook within carrying range, forcing the Killer to bleed them out, just to be an ass to the Killer.
It’s interesting you consider the last two to as being purely antagonistic from survivors.
Going 300m away from the killer is probably so they’re not seen and hoping the hatch spawns near enough to get to without being spotted.
Also even if it is just to hide, it might be to avoid seeing the killer stand there watching them bleed out or ‘hump-tech’/ax throws/slinger gunshot/clown bottles/wraith bell etc spam over your slugged body.
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@DyingWish92 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/375111/gen-rushing-is-a-huge-problem
Because this is the #1 problem in the game and always has been, gen rush. Which in turn causes the #2, #3 issues camping and tunneling. If I lose 3 or 4 gens for 1 hook why the hell would I leave the hook and go for more chases lmao.
The problem is that the game has reached a stage now where #1 and #2 and #3 can be flipped. Survivors might feel compelled to get through gens asap to avoid the snowball caused by 2 and 3.
Killers may go into a match with the intention to do 2 and 3. Because they assume survivors will do 1. And survivors will go into the match to do 1 presuming the killer will do 2 and 3.
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@[Deleted User] said:
It depends on the situation. I've encountered this a few times and done both. Usually when I ask in end chat the killer players will claim that that person did something "toxic".
I know it wasn't part of your example but if early on in a game someone is put on hook and the killer won't let anyone unhook them I will still try. This is because when I was new to the game I had this happen to me. I was put on hook. I didn't do anything to the killer at all. Didn't even get a pallet stun in, no t-bagging, nothing. I wasn't the obsession either. They shook their head when anyone tired to unhook me and so the team gave up and let me die. While spectating I see the killer farming with the rest of the survivors. Made me feel terrible.
I second this. It makes me feel awful.. I’ve died so many times in this game already that one more death is usually worth the price to knowing I didn’t idly stand by watching this kind of scenario where it was totally unwarranted. Even if it’s a basement bubba, I know people say “don’t give them the extra kill” I feel compelled to stand in solidarity (death lol) with the person being camped and bm’d like that and move on.
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@Gandor said:
Most likely 2).
Don't get me wrong. I am very altruistic player and there's a good chance I will try to save even if I there are 2 survivors left (1 hooked and me) where killer camps. Especially if I feel like hooked person did more in a trial then me (meaning he deserves to escape).
But your situation will most likely have a context. It most likely means that hooked person was cheater, or toxic player. If killer was tryharding, he would not let you go. So it's most likely also not a punishment for "good chase" (something weird that some killers just do). Also killer opening the gate for you suggests, that he could have killed you too, so that probably means it's only fair to respect normal outcome of the game + killer's mercy.
However if killer decides to do this, because of just "I need to punish good chaser" - then I will pick 1). But I would need to be sure it's this context.
Yeah I pretty much echo this. Usually I play with friends so I’d know if they did something to warrant that or not. Or if it is solo, it is hard to know if/when something happened or not that illicited that response from the killer.
sometimes I’ve seen killer go for someone just because they were saboed or flashsaved or body blocked by that survivor.
I can’t help altruism (I am a killers dream lol) so usually will help or trade unless I personally have seen that survivor doing something that patently deserved it (unwarranted toxicity).
If I’m iri 1, I generally don’t mind dying for someone else so that may also dictate my action. Usually I’d signal to the killer (as best as I can) that they can have me
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@CaulDrohn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425745#Comment_3425745
Why should it be impossible without BT? We had a time without base BT, and situations where you would be unhooked without the unhooker having BT. 4 man outs would still happen, just because body blocks exist. I would assume body blocking is way more important than any BT timer for getting 4 man out. With lesser ppl alive, BT timer is more important, sure. But with less body blocking, it's also easier to wait out the timer as a killer.
That was also a time where DS existed and also old DH. I think there are more matches where killer gets kill even with Basekit BT and even increases potential to kill other altruistic survivors than when everyone gets out when someone is hooked at EG.
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@Slan said:
Sometimes recently unhooked survivors use their basekit BT or perks such as Off the Record to do protection hits when the purpose of these perks is to discourage tunelling, not being used to give other survivors better chances. Many times this is done to leave them on the ground so that they can use their DS too. If healing other survivors counts as a conspicuous action, and its purpose is also giving others a better chance against the killer, why isn't this, which has the exact same purpose, considered also a conspicuous action? Protection hits are done willingly by survivors, and since it is not considered a conspicuous action they have a fair chance of getting away with something that helps others survive (again, like healing other survivors).
I would say there is two ways of looking at it:
sometimes it can be hard to define who is actively bodyblocking - especially off hook when everyone is trying to run away it can be a bit chaotic and the killer ends up hitting the unhooked anyway. I’d imagine it can be difficult for the game to judge what was done intentionally or not.
Second, although it may seem strong - it is a nature if the perk. You can consider it OP in the kind of way (although not the same thing) a survivor regarding a perk like franklins where one normal hit can make all survivors drop all their items each and every time and lose charges - some items which take a long time and cost to obtain; or NOED etc. Some will consider it OP and others find a way to work around it and others just think “it is what it is”.
Similarly someone who body blocks is doing so at a risk - they are now down able and in mend state. If killer now goes for them (and I don’t consider this tunnelling as the body blocker must understand that is the potential consequence for the risk they took).
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@miniwengsel said:
I played three matches today as chest defender Buba. First match was very fun I had nice interaction with the survivors. Next game the Survivors think I would just refuse to play the match, because they dont know the playsyle. Last match no interaction with the survivors and I ask them if they know the playstyle. The know it and dont liked it so they reported me for doning so.
So now to my question Would you enjoy the playstyle and do you know the playstyle?
I would actually love to have this as a game mode where people can intentionally join such a game. Potentially add a few unique features - would be good if they expanded items and chests to be protected and so on.
I poster another thread where I said that players on both sides who have reached iri 1 might just want to have meme games and this would fit in with that idea :)
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
David was one of the most popular survivors. Actually he was the most popular male survivor after Dwight.
But now? I am almost never seeing him. Are people stopped play him? Why he is so rare now
I like certain characters such as David but seldom play them because they seem more ‘hardcore’ and the same for certain cosmetics I like but don’t use. I often feel they’re telling the killer “I’m strong - come for me if you dare!”
I don’t dare lol 😅
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@[Deleted User] said:
Do you actually get many chases out of this? Unless I feel like goofing off I never give these players any attention.
Ah ok! I’ll bare that in mind thanks for verifying :)
Probably would be good for the game if they reduced the screams to potentially avoid this having to be done but at least it makes sense now!
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@Xernoton said:
I'm not sure this really qualifies as a mind game. You hope the killer has a rough time and try to annoy them so they'll go for you instead of your team mates. It's the same as the killer hitting you on the hook: Unnecessary.
Also, most teabags don't happen until the survivors made it to the gates. Is that a mind game as well?
I had a situation yesterday when a killer started smacking everyone on hook off the bat (no teabags or anything toxic from my team until then). They’re were a TTV so I did say GGs and asked why and they said they do it because they can’t stand the survivor screams and smacking reduces it - I don’t play killer so didn’t know that was a thing so it may be true but I did tell them they should be aware of how it will look for survivors who may reply in kind. I mean if survivors knew it was a thing then maybe they wouldn’t mind too much (unless it is repeated smacks… which I often get!)
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3419219#Comment_3419219
I can agree on that. DBD is a pretty unique game. Skills that you develop in other games mostly don't carry over to DBD (at least in my experience), so you have to learn DBD from the ground up. The only things I can really think of to make it easier for newer players are changes to the matchmaking and maybe more fledged out tutorials. Tactics that you'd use in other games will never really work in DBD due to its asymmetrical nature and potential lack of counterplay to certain strategies.
I agree that more different viable ways to play the game would be a nice change. Gen rushing should be one of many strategies that all have their place as well as tunneling, camping and slugging. However, right now it seems that some of these strategies are guaranteed to give you better results than any alternatives, which then leads to players deeming these alternatives unviable.
Changing that in a healthy and overall enjoable way is not an easy task. For example I think the gates should be blocked for the first 5 minutes of a match, so that they cannot be opened before that time mark. This would limit the potential of gen rushing (at least slightly). Though I can see how that might be problematic when a killer camps. DS should be base kit (with a 3s stun duration) and spreading hooks should give the killer a small buff to action speed, granting 1 token for each unique hook (max 4) and losing 1 (possibly 2) token for hooking one survivor consecutively. Of course this is just an idea and I do not claim that this would not be abusable.
Yeah I think so! In also very interested in your perspective and insights. I’ve been a non member reader for a long time on these forums until recently because I never really knew a lot about the wider nuances enough to feel I could comment.
There are a lot of OG forum members and regulars like yourself - on both sides of the fence, killers and survivors whose opinions open my eyes to a lot. I value your collective thoughts and opinions regardless of whether I agree with them or not I can at least try to understand why someone has those thoughts (other than pure partisan us v them mentality).
I know almost any and every idea anyone mentions is often shot down or potentially abusable in some way but I think the conversations should happen for the good of everyone so thank you for sharing yours!
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@Xernoton said:
I see your point but isn't it a good thing that you need to do a bit of everything when playing survivor? Many people complain that doing gens is boring (which isn't exactly wrong, since there is little interactivity), so this should make the game more fun overall.
Everyone on the team needs to do a bit of everything or risk losing the match. If it's enough to assign the role of chaser to ONE survivor, then the game becomes horribly unbalanced because as long as the killer goes after this person the survivors are in a winning spot. What happens though, when the killer goes for someone else? Then the team falls quickly. This means there is only 2 possible outcomes of a match: 'Stomp or get stomped'.
The second half of your thoughts sounds like you want survivors to have so much time in a match that they can joke around while the killer tries their hardest to not lose the match with pretty much no hooks (else survivors would still feel pressured and cannot indulge in "dilly-dallying"). I'm sorry but throwing the game should lead you to lose. Especially when your oponent is playing serious.
I'm not saying the current gameplay loop is perfect. Due to recent changes many survivors will concentrate on ending games as quickly as humanly possible, creating the impression that killers have to tunnel to compete and survivors have to rush gens to not die to a tunneling killer.
Yesterday I had a match that lastet 5:46 minutes (with about 90 seconds of me camping in end game for 1 kill btw). The survivors were able to finish all 5 gens in about 4 minutes without the use of BNPs and only 1 toolbox. I have no idea how they managed to do that with me literally in chase for the entire game (got only 3 hooks but still) but I doubt these guys were cheaters (cannot say for certain though). When multiple matches like this occur back to back you get the feeling that 1 survivor needs to die immediately for you to have a chance. Now turn that around and the survivors reach the conclusion that there is only one chance to win: Rush the gens so fast that the killer has no time to kill you.
Both extremes should be looked at and dealt with (as well as camping as that is used as a means to get survivors off of gens as well).
No I definitely agree with what you’re saying overall - of course it should be aspirational for everyone to try and become better at everything and maybe I didn’t articulate it well enough when I said assuming roles - it Wasn’t meant to be purely restricted to those roles.
among my friends I’ve found that those who have come form games like CoD, Fortnite and so on are naturally good at aiming, timing and instinctive game habits. Some like me, (I’ve never played a PVP and only really played RPGs and Mario Zelda etc lol) came into the game without those inbuilt an and really struggle to pick them up in a game with a steep and unforgiving learning curve like dbd. I love to play with others though and the horror element too which makes dbd unique.
having said that, I do agree with you on the wider points. That’s why I don’t necessarily mean ‘revert the changes back to how they were before’ but (and this is easier said than done I appreciate) enable new changes or modes or capacity to allow different and diverse aspects to flourish so it’s not one dimensional for survivors or killers too.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3419148#Comment_3419148
Survivors that aren’t good at chases were always just getting carried by their teammates. Survivors can have healing perks, and still be good at chases. And we still have too many survivors that rely on stealth perks because they’re bad at chases, and they are getting carried by their teammates too.
Yes I’m sure! A lot of newer players, (and sadly someone like me who is an eternal potato backpack) this is their entry into the game and slowly start to experiment and explore other aspects.
But if ultimately every survivor MUST be good at chase and loops while balancing gens, then many players will simply be fodder. And if they’re isn’t a capacity to ‘be carried’ but adding value in different ways (healing/sabo for example) then it will inevitably become one style (someone who can loop and do gens). For example, if those fodder players like me said “ah well it is what it is, I’m not good enough and can’t get better so best move to a different game” then the only survivor left will be the super efficient loopers and Gen rushers who can do amazing flashlight saves. To counter that, you’ll have to have super efficient and ruthless killers and going by a lot of posts on the forums as well as my own and other friends opinions, that would make the game rather dull.
I play with friends and I enjoy it. They do carry me of course and I try and add value in different ways. If I was a great looper and flashlight god with them, then I would probably appear to be a bully squad for killers. But I think rather players like me can keep the game fun for killers.
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@Piruluk said:
So your point is that before survivor was so imbalanced that you could waste time and still win easily, and that should be brought back.
Its lot more fun to play killer now, before the game was almost unplayable because almost every survivor had a third health state with Dead Hard, finally its gone
No I think you’re misunderstanding my point entirely.
There are a lot of killer types - speedy, rangy, stealth, hit and run, traps and anti-loop etc.
I’ve always seen survivor perks and items to enable something similar - stealthy, looper, healer, saboteur, Gen rusher, exhaustion perks user etc
it isn’t about winning but about playing. I feel at present it’s about how efficiently survivors can get objectives done and leave v how most efficiently killers can stop them. If that is and always has been the only way the game is meant to be played, I think there would be no need for many survivor perks and items.
Again, to be clear, I’m talking about whether those diverse play styles are still viable or not to enable different kind of games to play out.
not even commenting on dead hard. If your opinion is that the game is best with a super efficient Gen rushing and looping survivor versus a super efficient tunnelling/camping/ do what needs to be done killer then that’s fair enough
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@Skill_issue said:
As killer: what is the proper etiquette if a survivor is afk at the beginning of the match? Do you go slug them and leave, hit them once and leave, ignore them and chase the teammate, down them and hook them?
As killer: do you give the last survivor hatch if they stop wiggling on your shoulders/is the last one left or do you fight for the 4k?
As survivor: what is the proper etiquette when you open the exit gate? Do you farm with the killer? Offer your item? Do the butt dance to rub it in?
For both: if a survivor disconnects do you show mercy and farm or just finish the game as quickly as possible?
For both: if a survivor offers their item do you show mercy or hook them regardless?
For me if I am playing a low tier killer I go for the early hook otherwise I ignore the afk survivor, show mercy if a disconnect happens/an item is offered, and only worry about a 3k
and as a survivor I leave as soon as my teammates are safe(sometimes I leave my item behind) and if a disconnect happens I usually farm with the killer depending on how many gens we have done as a team.
What are your thoughts on proper etiquette in dbd?
As a survivor main, my opinion is that it is totally at the discretion of the Killer. Any courtesy showed is purely good will on their part and I appreciate it when shown but I don’t think “wow what a terrible person” if they don’t. I’m aware that everyone had their own situation (might need the bp or doing a challenge).
If someone gives hatch, or let’s or escape, I’ll express my gratitude but I won’t come on the forums to complain if they don’t.
I’m much more upset if I’m subjected to bad manners such as slugging just to taunt or pretend to give exit and then kill me at the last second anyway but even then I’ll feel upset inside but life on. It is what it is. I’ve died a billion times in this game so one more death won’t kill me.. erm well it will but you know what I mean lol
My advice is do what you feel is appropriate at your your discretion based on your own thoughts at the time.
Just be aware that even one show of good will can promote positive behaviour for all. I’ve had killers who I’ve also tried to give hooks and kills to it by the end game they did their best but were outmatched (possibly MMR mismatch). Half of my friends on my in game list and discord server is people who killed me but were nice about it or they were so far better than me they showed mercy and even ‘trained’ me on looping (I’m still rubbish lol).
But it is totally discretionary on your part.
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@clowninabout said:
I had a survivor get 40k in one of my matches a while ago. But it basically took his entire swf throwing for it, he wasn't even that good in chases. Must have got the boldness points elsewhere? Threw a pallet and downed each time. Game ended with 11 hooks and he got hatch.
I knew something was up when the other 3 were doing a sort of "get down mr president" for him thing. They got low bp however.
That actually sounds like a fun match - you got your downs and hooks and kills and they seemed to want me president out as some kind of personal objective which they managed - happy times all round!
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@robrob909 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3415978#Comment_3415978
Problem is you don't need to be onepumpwillie to get similar matches matchmaking is the worst part of dbd for both killer and solo survivor. There are killers I've played less then 5 times and I go against multiple p100 lobbies. It's a serious problem tho I doubt it can be fixed without going back to long wait times. On my main I have around 1k hours and every match I get put into is 3k minimum hours for survivors.
Oh yes I don’t doubt that - even someone as nooby as me has faced people WAY above my skill and MMR level and sometimes way below too.
However for this particular match, o think One Pimp Willie and the survivor SWF (I’m guessing they were SWF) team were probably near each other in skill level. And it ended a draw.
I definitely agree with your wider point tho, MMR island pairing of opponents is probably one of the biggest factors for miserable experiences for both sides.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417016#Comment_3417016
Btw high tier killer doesn't mean high skill player.
When we talk about high tier killer, it's about killer as a character -> nurse, blight, spirit
Ah then it was probably a lower skill player in a lower MMR and probably also a lower ‘tier’ killer to boot! I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be able to have survived otherwise haha
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@AetherBytes said:
What build do you use that you made and no one else seems to use (for better or worse), either survivor or killer?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/26EUAGJKZ1EN/image.png
Pain Train Legion
I posted this (off topic) in another thread but it is probably most relevant here so a bit of copy and paste of my answer there!
Pre update it was:
CoH, Boon Exponential, For the People, We’ll make it/Built to Last/Streetwise
Post update, the same as above but CoH removed and now use we’ll make it or soulguard.
The amount of value I got from CoH and Expo as well as my ability to self heal to apply for the people numerous times meant I often play the ‘nurse’ of the team.
I’ll just say that in most matches, the killers were probably not as experienced so kept trying to slug and not realised boon expo was up so didn’t snuff out. So probably not against high tier killer - which is fine cos I’m not a high tier survivor either! So this isn’t a brag, just context that at my MMR level, I’ll be stomped by killers in 29/30 matches and have a wonderful and epic escape on the 1/30.
When all the stars aligned, I have the ‘full combo’ special move of my build which I’ve only done a handful of times:
A team mate on hook, another slugged at the foot of that hooked survivor and another being carried by the killer. I’ll go for the unhook making killer come toward the hook to put them on it - unhook > drop a flashbang so it blind saves the carried survivor quickly apply for the people on the slugged teammate and then scarper the heck ouf of there!
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
I have been watching Otz trying to get 40k BP as survivor and it's some real struggle, which doesn't seem right to me.
It's not really easy as a killer to get 40k, but it's possible, it's easy to get on 30k as most killers. Depends on specific killer tho, some have it easier.
But as a survivor, I am usually happy to get 20k and that's a decent game. 30K is really good game, where we got out. 40k seems near impossible.
EDIT: without BP offerings.
Although I don’t personally like matches against some killers that draw the game out by 3 gens or slugging - it does ironically ( - sometimes - ) work out for me bp wise due to the nature of my build (well, pre-update anyway). I used to run:
CoH, Boon Exponential, For the People, We’ll make it/Built to Last/Streetwise
The amount of value I got from CoH and Expo as well as my ability to self heal to apply for the people numerous times meant I would sometimes get a decent number of bp - above 35k on some occasions but now there near 40k.
I’ll just say that in the matches above, the killers were probably not as experienced so kept trying to slug and not realised boon expo. So probably not a high tier killer - which is fine cos I’m not a high tier survivor either! So this isn’t a brag, just context that at my MMR level, I’ll be stomped 29/30 matches and have a wonderful and epic escape on the 1/30.
off topic, but I really used to love that build! I still partly use it! When all the stars aligned, I have the ‘full combo’ special move of my build which I’ve only done a handful of times:
A team mate on hook, another slugged at the foot of that hooked survivor and another being carried by the killer. I’ll go for the unhook making killer come toward the hook to put them on it - unhook, drop a flashbang so it blind saves the carrier survivor and the quickly apply for the people on the slugged teammate and then scarper the heck ouf of there!
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@NoHookDC said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416448#Comment_3416448
Yeah. I just hate being screamed at like I'm breaking some rule after they bodyblock.
It's like they legit think 'I can prevent the Killer from chasing someone and he has to let me run away after, or he's a tunneler! No way this can backfire!'
Plan backfires.
Survivor: Incoherent screaming.
You can hear their screams? that is an impressive tech kit
Joking aside, sometimes people do it as gratitude for the person who unhooked them? It depends on the context but if it was me, and I got downed by the killer for body blocking after unhook, I wouldn’t consider it tunnelling at all. It’s a risk and if the risk fails, there can’t be any complaints. I don’t think it’s a toxic situation for either side. Just a risk and one that can either buy a moment for the unhooked (this could even be a friend who is playing together) as gratitude or sometimes just an instinctual protective move.
I think someone complaining about being tunnelled because if that is being unreasonable.
What I don’t appreciate is tarring all survivors with the same brush. This forum is full of them v us and this kind of post just adds fuel to the seething hatred killers mains have for survivors.
framing it as:
Survivors: say x y z
is tarring all survivors and ridicules people who mains survivor and will
illicit a response like mine at best, or worst, turn people more toxic in game because of the us v them mentality it breeds.
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@Veinslay said:
7 seconds is not minor. I've had so many games recently where I was 1 second away from getting a pain res hook and the gen gets done just before I can hook them
Isn’t this anecdotal though? I mean I’ve had many times she. I was one second away from popping a Gen but got hit by pain res or some other perk. It is what it is sometimes
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@icemancat said:
Overview:
On the surface, some people may not have much to say about someone in particular. However, if you take a closer look, then the words that someone initially said would have drastically changed. Adam Francis is a very straightforward, yet mysterious individual who many glance over. What many fail to recognize is that Adam Francis may be one of the most important pieces to the overall story of Dead By Daylight, as studying the story of Adam gives valuable insight that is hard to come across in many other characters. In this post, I will be doing a lore analysis on Adam Francis and will try to review as much as I possibly can. REMINDER: In no way is all of this information confirmed. Some of this information is just theorized.
General Background:
From Adam’s backstory, we learn that he was born in Rollington Town in Kingston, Jamaica. Very early on in his life, Adam lost his father when he was 2 to a car accident. Because of this, his uncle took care of him. It is highly probable that his uncle is his father’s brother as there is zero mention of Adam’s mother.
Throughout school, Adam was very studious, preferring to focus on his studies under the guidance of his uncle who taught Adam to greatly value education. These studies would go on to stick with Adam for the rest of his life. The entirety of Adam’s childhood wasn’t completely peaceful, however, as he was a target for bullies. However, Adam refused to entertain the idea of being bothered by the bullies because of his strength of character. Adam quickly learned that he did not need to fight them to prove that he was better than them, resulting in the bullying not having a heavy impact on him.
After high school, Adam studied at Kingston College to become a teacher and discovered his father’s published works, indicating that his father could be a notable alumni for Kingston College. During his college years, he met some friends who all had an interest in music, implying that a hobby of Adam’s was most likely listening to music. However, that would only remain a hobby as he saw his life path sticking with education. Thanks to his studying and high grades, he earned admission to higher education at an unknown university. During this time, Adam noticed a demand for teachers abroad. After studying at university, Adam eventually graduated and was ready for the next step in his life.
Before he could travel abroad, Adam needed to earn some extra money for the trip overseas. Therefore, he decided to teach some extra classes. For the next year, Adam had to work extra hard by teaching extra classes and was eventually able to afford a plane ride. Adam applied for a position in Kagoshima, Japan, and earned the position.
At first, Adam was disoriented, living with a hectic schedule and not being very fluent in Japanese. However, he quickly adapted after a few months and found his flow. He was beginning to feel connected with his students through extra-curricular activities, gained more experience with his language skills, and even exceeded the expectations of the school, resulting in him being able to treat himself to luxurious restaurants and already plan his first vacation. This suggests that Adam is a highly-skilled teacher and likely earned a higher pay. However, this would not last.
One day while riding a train to work, the train lost control and derailed, flipping upside down as a result. Chaos occurred as passengers screamed and panicked. To Adam, it was as if his whole world slowed down. He watched as an unhinged door flew right at a nearby passenger. The last thing Adam did was to take the hit instead of the girl by rolling in the way to save her life. He prepared for the impact and shut his eyes, ready for whatever may happen next.
What happened was not what he expected though as he opened his eyes to find himself and the train surrounded by fog. Ice flowed through his body as a dark whisper was hardly audible as Adam drifted off into a sleep. Little did Adam know, he was now in the Realm of The Entity.
Compared to other survivor backstories released around the same time as Adam’s, we are able to gain a decent amount of information about Adam. However, there are still multiple mysteries surrounding his character. The first I would like to cover is about his parents.
The Mystery Behind Adam’s Parents
A common theme surrounding many characters in Dead By Daylight is the relationship with their parents. These relationships range from being very healthy, very unhealthy, or somewhere in the middle. For Adam, however, he never got to have a relationship with his parents. In the case of Adam’s mother, we hear absolutely nothing about her as Adam’s background makes zero comment about her. Meanwhile, we do get to learn a little bit about Adam’s father. As covered previously, Adam’s father most likely was a teacher as he had published works at Kingston College, the school where he most likely went. However, when Adam was only 2 years old, he died in a vehicular accident. IF you’re thinking that this sounds familiar, it’s because it should as there are very large similarities between Adam and his own father. These similarities lead me to believe the next topic of this lore dive; repeating history.
Repetition of History
After studying the background of Adam and his father, I picked up on a crucial pattern that their history is quite similar.
- Both went to Kingston College
- Both became teachers
- Both had published works (heavily implied that Adam had published works during his time as a teacher)
- Both “died” in vehicular accidents
If we consider the possibility that history is repeating itself, then that could mean that Adam and his father could have been in the vehicle at the same time at the time of his father’s death. I believe what may have happened is that a tragic impact could have killed Adam, so instead of it doing so, Adam’s father swerved the car in the opposite direction so he could take the impact, sacrificing himself in the process. Adam did a very similar thing on the train ride. He sacrificed himself to save a kid, but after that, he was captured by The Entity. If we consider that history is repeating itself, then that could mean that Adam’s father was also captured by The Entity. But why? Why would The Entity want to capture both Adam and his father?
The Ice
The very close similarities between Adam and his father can infer that there could be other very close similarities. Perhaps one additional similarity could be the transition into The Entity’s Realm. Whenever Adam was in the process of getting transferred into The Entity’s Realm, something peculiar happened first.
“Ice seemed to flow through his body, reaching his lips first, then the tip of his fingers before spreading to his legs. Lulled by the warm hum of the dark whisper, he closed his eyes, drifting.”
Given from what we can read from Adam’s backstory, we can tell that he is a reliable narrator. The event of his father’s “death” at the age of 2 was what he was probably told by his uncle. Therefore, it would be perfectly normal for the backstory to say that Adam’s father died as that is what Adam was told. So when it comes to this final transition stage, we read that Adam’s body was traveling through and around his body. No other survivor experienced ice surrounding themself except for Adam. The first thing that comes to mind is The Entity possibly trying to preserve Adam for an unknown reason. However, if we consider that the same thing happened to Adam’s father, then his father would have had this same experience, but perhaps with a different outcome. I have a few theories on what the ice could mean.
Theory #1: Adam’s Parents are part of a previous generation of Imperiatti and Adam is an indirect old Pariah
With this possibility, it would explain the extreme mystery behind Adam’s mother not being present, but also can explain the disappearance with Adam’s father. This can give us more insight as to what The Entity does to members of The Imperiatti. We already know that The Entity will use The Pariahs as survivors for its trials, but The Imperiatti would be different. The Imperiatti was the group that directly tried to battle The Entity. I believe The Pariahs were meant to serve as the next generation should the current Imperiatti fall. Knowing this, it is possible that The Entity preserves The Imperiatti within ice due to them being a risk. This would mean that The Entity does have additional powers that have to do with ice that have not been previously seen before. In terms of alleviating risks, The Entity would not want to have another situation like it had with Talbot Grimes, so the risk of roaming Imperiatti members alone is enough to not let them have the chance. This could match Adam to be an unofficial Pariah due to serving in the trials, but this remains unknown. Additionally, there is still one question: Why try to preserve Adam in the ice?
Theory #2: The Entity fought over Adam with another unknown Ancient
This theory is interesting as the idea of introducing more ancients in the world of Dead By Daylight always fascinated me. However, we still need to determine whether this makes sense or not. What this theory proposes is that while Adam was in the transition phase, an ancient at the caliber of The Entity tried to capture Adam for itself. This unknown ancient has frost-like powers and attempted to encase Adam in ice for an unknown reason, possibly preservation. However, The Entity fought off this ancient, therefore preserving Adam for itself. Adam then wakes up in The Entity’s Realm and the rest is history. Once again, however, we still have the same question from the previous theory: Why try to preserve Adam in the ice?
Adam’s New Purpose
After reviewing both possible theories, both have the same question despite having their differences. As for which theory is more possible, there is just no way to know for sure and is left up to speculation. The first theory ties Adam’s parents in perfectly and fills in those blanks, but one power that we have never seen of The Entity’s is ice. The second theory elaborates much more on the ice, but the fate of Adam’s parents is left completely obscured. Regardless of which theory you believe in, there is still an extremely important reason for preserving Adam in the ice. That reason is Adam’s potential.
Regardless of the theory you believe in, The Entity saw a lot of potential in Adam for a specific reason. We know that The Entity greatly prefers individuals with potential as we have seen in the example with The Spirit. In case people don’t know, The Spirit’s father was originally going to become a killer, but The Spirit had more potential. Therefore, The Entity took her rather than her father. When it comes to survivors, I believe The Entity captures those with potential as well. Although the primary goal is to consume the survivors’ hope, there are a few that have unique traits that have come very close to beating The Entity such as Talbot Grimes (The Blight). Talbot used to be a survivor, but after a very long battle and quest for finding a way out of The Entity’s Realm, he ultimately failed and became a killer. Adam is another special case that I believe The Entity wanted to focus on. With both theories, The Entity ultimately prevents Adam from getting trapped in ice. Why? Because of his potential. This potential that Adam has built up on his entire life is what I believe The Entity admires about Adam. An admiration that would lead to a special kind of long-term “experiment”.
The Entity’s Experiment on Adam Francis
It was not clear at first as to how skilled of a survivor Adam would be, but similar to Adam adapting to life in Kagoshima, he would adapt to The Entity’s Realm. Unique perks of survivors are what I believe defines them to the core. If you look at Adam’s perks, all three of his unique perks adapt to the primary, yet broad three threats in a trial:
- Diversion: Used to avoid getting caught in the first place. Adam quickly learned that if he could prevent being found, then he would not have to worry about anything else.
- Deliverance: Should he get caught, Adam’s sheer willpower to escape the primary source of a sacrifice further proved that The Entity’s hunch that Adam had potential was right. Adam’s ability to completely defy the odds and escape from a meat hook is exceptionally powerful from a lore standpoint.
- Autodidact: Able to greatly assist his allies within the trials. If we only consider survivors with their unique perks and if all perks are at optimal level, then Adam has one of, if not the best healing skills out of all the survivors, further proving his competence.
So what is the point of all of this? The answer is to use Adam as a test. However, Adam is not just some labrat. He is much more. He is possibly The Entity’s newest adversary.
The Entity Finds Adam to be a Worthy Adversary
Considering Adam’s past, his potential, and later proven capabilities, I believe that The Entity finds Adam to be a worthy adversary. There are multiple hints and additional details to explain in this segment. Remember, Adam had neither of his parents around for long and was eventually taken in by his uncle. His uncle was the one to teach him all that he knows for the most part, with his father possibly being an influence when it comes to a career choice. Therefore, there is a particular relationship that Adam has with The Entity.
The Entity admires Adam’s skills, therefore,
The Entity admires Adam’s uncle’s teachings
The Entity wants to further secure its Realm
But wants Adam to find the weak points
Another example of The Entity’s prediction is through some cosmetics. Adam’s Hallowed Blight and Deep Rift outfits have similar, but important descriptions that further explain Adam’s potential:
“An overwhelming amount of research lay scattered and disorganized across Vigo’s workshop. He did what he could to recover the most important work.” - Hallowed Blight Outfit
“An overwhelming amount of research lay scattered and disorganized across Vigo’s workshop. He did what he could to recover anything about this realm.” - Deep Rift Outfit
Although it is unknown if it was Adam who collected the research or if it was a previous professor who wore it, it slightly links Adam to further potential that The Entity saw in him.
There are not only these details, but more obscure ones that no one would think twice about when it comes to Adam’s lore. However, this next point has the potential to further support The Entity’s admiration for Adam. The way this admiration is shown is through cosmetics. Specifically, the winter sweaters.
The Winter Sweaters Symbolize The Entity’s Respect for Adam
Definitely one of the biggest stretches in this lore dive, but not completely out of the question, there is a possibility that the winter sweaters show a little more of The Entity’s thoughts. To start, we have to go back to the Ice Theories. Again, regardless of which theory you believe in, Adam was about to be encased in ice. However, whether The Entity saw more potential in him than the Imperiatti or if The Entity fought off the other cosmic ancient, Adam ended up as a survivor in The Entity’s Realm. I think that the dates of when characters come into the game did not have much of an impact on the lore, but for this case, I think it matters. Adam Francis was first introduced on September 18, 2018. However, when you look at when the winter sweaters were released, they were released on December 17, 2018, 90 days after Adam was introduced into the game. Once again, I don’t think that release date of characters defines how long they have been in The Entity’s Realm as we have characters like Vittorio Toscano who can immediately prove that theory false, but in the case of the winter sweaters, I think it matters. If The Entity wanted to watch Adam prove he is capable for 90 days, I think that is plenty of time to then be impressed with Adam’s performance. Therefore, The Entity would have celebrated. Celebrations of The Entity are not out of the question as The Entity’s birthday was canonically celebrated. The first appearance of The Entity’s birthday was in Arcus 129 of Tome 3:
“A knock at the door and an invitation attached to a bottle of whiskey waiting for me at the foot of the door. I kneeled to inspect the invitation. “You are cordially invited to The Entity’s Birthday”. The Entity has a birthday? Am I losing my mind… my grip or reality… whatever that actually means here… Is this some kind of a prank by a marooned soul?”
This is not a prank as the cutscene from Tome 11 shows another appearance of The Entity’s birthday party:
Tome 11 - Devotion: The House of Arkham (The Observer) - Dead by Daylight
This proves that celebrations for The Entity are very much real and that The Entity bringing in winter sweaters would be no exception. As for where the cosmetics come from, The Entity is responsible from a lore standpoint for bringing in the cosmetics, giving survivors the illusion of things they may have worn while possibly giving them additional fragments of hope in the process. The thing that stands out about the winter sweaters is their symbolism. Specifically, two points are prominent. First, the primary use of sweaters is to keep yourself warm and to avoid the cold. This ties back to the Ice Theories and how The Entity rejected the ice freezing over Adam regardless of it was out of fear of power from an equivalent to that of an Imperiatti or if it was fighting off another ancient. The Entity could have then manifested the sweaters and gave the sweaters to the survivors as an indirect celebration of its continued power. The second is quite possibly the most important point: the descriptions of the sweaters. I understand that some may think that they are just random descriptions slapped on by the developers, but taking second glances at little details shows deeper meaning. Some descriptions are straightforward like a narrator, others are indirectly taunting the survivors, others point out flaws of survivors, and a select few show what I believe is a personality of The Entity.
One example of a basic description would be with Felix’s sweater. This description is incredibly basic and in no way implies anything specific:
“A cozy, professional sweater for mingling with executives during the winter season.”
A sweater that indirectly taunts the survivor could be with Jake’s sweater:
“Well, it’s a happy ending for the bears.”
Feng Min’s sweater’s description, when considering her backstory, points out a critical flaw of hers: perfection and keeping her fans happy, something she got overwhelmed by. This description tries to pressure her:
“Just because it’s the Holidays, that’s no excuse to neglect gaming. There are people to beat and XP to gain!”
A few sweaters show rare glimpses of what I believe is The Entity showing a fascination with humanity’s culture. One example could be with Kate’s sweater:
“Wild Horses and music. The untamed and the untamable.”
We can even see The Entity adapting to humanity’s culture and gaining an understanding of it. The description of Ace’s sweater shows that The Entity may have even gone the lengths to learn what games we play:
“It’s time to show your winning hand.”
However, even after reviewing all of the sweaters, there are none that bear the same meaning behind Adam’s and further support why I believe The Entity finds Adam impressive. Adam’s Teacher’s Pet sweater reads:
“I really can’t show favoritism. But you’re the best.”
Whether we will see Adam Francis rise up to the caliber of Talbot Grimes or Vigo has yet to be known, but it is definitely a decent possibility that he could be a future or current key player in finding out more about The Entity’s Realm and maybe even a new escape route out of the Realm.
Thanks For Reading!
If you made it this far, then thank you so much. Regardless of how much of this lore dive people read, I appreciate your time. I understand that some of these theories could be leaps, but that is part of the point of these lore dives: to theorize what could be. Adam Francis has always been an underrated character in my opinion and I’m really happy that I took another look at his story as it really does make me interested about the answers we have only for me to ask more questions. Once again, not all of this information is confirmed as a lot of it is theorized. Let me know what you think!
Thanks,
icemancat
Great stuff! I’m not clued up on the lore so it was a very interesting and entertaining read! Maybe you could do a YouTube vid - you seem very meticulous and well versed - I think it would translate well on the Tube!
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416150#Comment_3416150
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GJ5WKNX96OG8/star-wars-sorry.gif
Me when I hear that people are still toughing it out of Switch
I think there’s only 5 of us in the whole world lol even though we’re the poor and unfashionable cousins at the family get together, it’s still a very fun game on switch tbf! As long as we don’t stare too longingly at the graphics and features the PC, PS and Xbox players have, it holds up fairly well for the most part!
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3415357#Comment_3415357
Most don't have good pc and many players play on old consoles. I think cross play should be turned off you would probably get better opponent's as result and I would be happy not to have to face pc killers or survivors. Pc right now has so many advantages over console. Tell me what should I do when I mindgamed and avoided 6 rushes of blight but he just get the hit with last rush when I run out of options to avoid it what could I do?
Nintendo switch player here lol
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@adsads123123123123 said:
How is it possible considering:
- each gen takes 90 seconds
- there is walk time and time to find gens
- Hex Ruin and Thana were slowing gens
- killer was disrupting survivors
- a survivor was slugged half of the time
- survivors were doing tapes
- Only 1 BNP and toolbox
I think One Pump Willie is an incredibly skilful killer and he appeared to be on a streak so it looks like he came up against a very good team - he himself says in the video that he allowed early game pressure and also that the team played well. And he STILL got 2 kills and a draw.
I don’t see anything untoward or strange here?
Gens went fast because the team focused on cranking them out while a condemned play style was in play by his Sadako.
I don’t think this is necessarily representative of all typical survivors or killers - just those at a very high level where you win some and lose some. And this was a draw so..?
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@birdnippies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/372874/is-casual-survivor-impossible-now
The best advice I can give someone who plays solo survivor is to stop thinking of "escape" as the only reason to play. You are probably not going to escape, and plenty of times you will be able to point to one of your teammates as the problem. I have about 3000 hours total but only 400 or so as survivor. Here are the things I like to do for survivor:
1) My "Prepared for Anything" build: I take plunderer's instinct and 3 perks that each help me with an item. Prove thyself for toolboxes, empathy or we'll make it for medkits, residual manifest for beamers. This is fun because the kind of game I play depends on the item I get!
2) Combat Medic - Empathy, we'll make it, built to last, CoH. Bring medkit. If someone gets injured or hooked, I'm on the case. Very fun 100% altruistic playstyle. Sometimes I put deliverance in there but I hate when people rescue before me.
3) Engineer - Built to last, stake-hout, hyperfocus, and either repressed alliance or
4) Gen Trickster - Repressed Alliance, Blast Mine, Wiretap, sprint burst - When the killer gets near, I booby trap the generator and sprint away. He can't even kick it because of repressed alliance, and if he waits around, he gets a nasty shock and we ALL see his aura.
5) Info build - Distortion, Kindred, Lithe/Sprint burst, Fogwise/Alert - Killer doesn't see me, but I often see him and I always know if I should spend time going for a save
6) Disappearing Act - Inner healing, lucky break, overcome, quick and quiet. I run the killer until I take a slap, then I make a beeline for a corner I can whip around and pop into a locker. No scratch marks, no sound, and I'm healed a few seconds later! Then off to find another totem to do it all over again. This one is tons of fun.
I have tons of different builds, usually arranged by character (I'm not really into lore or anything, but I kind of give them personalities or "classes" so I can keep them straight in my head). In fact, my favorite thing to do as a survivor are interesting tome challenges. Just trying to escape is boring, and often depends on things I can't really control. But seeing how many times I can pallet stun or blind someone, or how many people I can surprise by healing them with a purple medkit, that's more interesting to me. I play survivor to chill and relax. I play killer when I feel sweaty. There's tons of fun to be had if you don't get caught up in "escape or I hate this game" mentality.
Can I borrow you for some games? lol
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@HugTechLover sorry the above post was supposed to be for you too
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@Reinami @Huge_Bush hi, I am a survivor main (about 1,000 hours on Nintendo switch) and probably by any metric would fit into the mediocre-at best with comical levels of looping ability. Not purely for bias reasons, but a combination of the fact that I’m ABSOLUTELY horrible at First person view games + also a terrible loner so would not have the heart to be a killer. However I like to read the forum and take different points of views. My initial thoughts as someone who pretty much gets stomped 8 or 9 out of 10 matches is to feel utter dismay at posts where suggestions of further nerfs to survivors are made.
I have come to understand the more subtle nuances especially at different levels of play however so it generally leaves me feeling quite helpless. The truth is I should ‘get good’ but I’m not sure I have it in me to become a Better looper if even after 1k hours I get downed in seconds of caught. My usual method of survival is to add value to my team in different ways (support perks, healing etc that make me an extended pair of hands for other more competent players).
Reading a lot killer main opinions like yours, although I still don’t always agree I find them to at least be based on reasonable arguments (as opposed to some killer main posts that are so unbiased and - at least to me - deluded to the point I wonder if they’re playing the same game).
it seems there is a big gap between what a high tier killer and lower tier killer can do when balancingX I wonder if the game had extra objectives for survivor to compensate? So for example, a killer with less pressure ability can have baked-in extra objectives for the survivors such as finding parts to Gen around the map (can encourage ‘item search’ perks) that need to be collected and paired with others before even working on a Gen etc?
I’m sure every idea will have a potential to be abused or a counter etc but I’m interested in ideas to keep the game going. I’m afraid that at the current level of nerfs, as fair or not as they may be for whatever point of view and level applied, will alienate and eventually remove players like me because we can’t “get good” and our other dimensions of play aren’t viable. I like this game too much and have made some amazing friends who are also of a similar mindset and (low) ability.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
I honestly dont know how someone can look at the state of SoloQ and instantly jump to "SWF is the issue here".
SoloQ has always been in a rough spot, but BHVR pushing the game to be more competitive while also not providing SoloQ the resources to deal with competitive-based situations has left it in an even worse position than ever; even after the HUD changes.
One of the things that has hurt SoloQ the most is the inconsistent teammates, it's always been an issue (kinda). When BHVR changes SBMM to be less strict, it made the game significantly worse for SoloQ because you cannot rely on your teammates to do anything right.
But here is the thing, BHVR is in a catch-22, if the make SBMM more strict than people will complain that Killer is too stressful, but if you dont change SBMM, the game becomes miserable for SoloQ. Damned if you do, damned if you dont. SBMM/MMR has overall hurt the game in almost every way possible, and has made the flaws with the game insanely noticeable.
I could go on and on with hundreds of other possible factors that made the game the way it is but frankly I dont think people want to sit here and read a 10-page essay of anecdotal commentary involving the state of the game, regardless, I hope my point is clear, the issue is not SWF, it's BHVR's inability to make effective changes.
I am a sad individual because I wanna read those 10 pages of anecdotals lol
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@ReikoMori said:
Everytime we try ways to severely curtail camping, survivors weaponize it to the point that it negatively impacts the gameplay experience of killers in a bad way.
That's why the devs are very cautious with even adding perks that are meant to mitigate it. When Reassurance was in ptb survivors almost instantly got it nerfed cause they turned it into a hyper offensive weapon that messed up the flow of games too much.
That's how unhinged people get in this game, we can't have solutions to problems without folks trying to bend them into hyper competitive weapons that ultimately cause the situation it is trying to prevent to become much worse for one or both sides. The design of the game needs to change to actually completely remove camping, but the moment they do make that change they'll need to address basically everything else related to it.
There are two things I’d like to comment - one is directly at your point about potential weaponisation (which I agree) is that the current status quo is that MANY killers do camp. I think the potential weaponisation would shift the status quo but it feels unfair to think “well, yes killers can use this unfair strategy, but it’s hard to change because survivors can turn it into a survivor sided unfair strategy.. so let’s just keep it as a killer sided unfair strategy”.
Having said that, I DO agree with you that the best approach should not be one which just switches the status quo to another unfair one. But it must be changed altogether.
problem with reassurance or any perk related change is that it can be used in many cases unfairly even when nobody is camping. Kind of like saying, here is a bat to use to hit the killer over he head if they are camping - but it won’t stop them being h it even if they aren’t - patently unfair.
I do think that there should be an inbuilt non perk mechanic which punishes camping severely and has certain conditions.
- If killer doesn’t move away from the proximity though no other survivors nearby, then hook timer pauses for survivor and they gain points from their teammates who are on gens. Gens themselves should have skill checks removed and faster to complete if a teammate is being camped beyond 30 seconds (with no other teammates around) and increase bonuses to compensate for the lack of opportunity to gain other points (chases, boldness etc)
- Remove healthy grab, or turn into a locked animation that results in a trade (hooked gets unhooked but unhooked automatically gets picked post unhook)
- Auto down weapons deactivated if 30 seconds have passed and one teammate is in proximity to save. Auto down weapon restricted to one down when more than one survivor is present
- Number 1 doesn’t apply to endgame
what do you think of the above? If there are exploits for the above then hopefully we can think about ways to negate those but I personally believe the above is a fair failsafe method in most cases.
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@emmilu said:
So I’ve been playing with this one person that’s either on Xbox or PC, it would be nice to communicate on discord maybe. So if there happens to be a nice soul in here that could find this one person I’d be forever grateful.🩵
the gamertag is “KappaMii”
Hi I found them - they appear to be on Xbox. I can send a message and see if they respond and try and direct them to you on this post - or if you have discord then let me know if you want me to pass it on
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@DancingCactus @beccachambers it’s so good to see switch players on here!! I always feel like I’m the only one in the world lol
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3401943#Comment_3401943
It's realistic.
It's been known for years that with the right tools and coordination a team can complete gens in as fast as 3mins. Even with the efficiency cut that happened to toolboxes a while back and the rework of brand new part to make it not auto finish gens a good team can still finish the game in sub 5 minutes. Now it isn't super common, but it can be done
But isn’t this the same kind of situation as a killer with the eighth perks and set of circumstances snowballing within 3 mins?
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@ryokoryu said:
Ok seriously this guy didn't play badly he just had no chance of winning. we destroyed this guy in what felt like under 2 minutes. Just 2 toolboxes he started next to 2 of us and the other 2 were across the map, they had 1 done in under 30 seconds and one of us led him on a very fast chase while I stayed on the gen we spawned by. the guy downed our linebacker (Jane Romero) just about as the first gen popped and the 2 toolbox guys were on another gen that was almost half-way done when he hooked her. he came back to my gen but I predicted this and had moved not too far away and hidden with my secure distortion and the second gen popped as he got back to mine and kicked it. I needn't have brought distortion for this as he didn't have nowhere to hide and as it turns out at the end we found out all slowdown perks were brought . I rescued our linebacker from her basement prison in the shack next to the gen we were on just after tapping outs to stop it's regression. We popped out of basement and finished our gen just as another one popped. this is less than 2 minutes to 4 gens and this guy brought call of brine, overcharge, eruption, and pop goes the weasel. Granted that last choice of perks wasn't the best in that slot but this guy came built to counter gen rushes and absolutely could not have made an intelligent decision to improve the results of this game. the final gen was done and I had us out of there with wake-up less than a minute later. 2 green toolboxes was all it took to completely make this game unwinnable for this guy and I tried to tell him after the game it wasn't his fault he lost but he thought I wasn't being sincere, I was. This wasn't fair and shows how broken survivors can sometimes be. I won but I definitely didn't earn this victory.
As a low skilled survivor, I can say I have had many many many matches where the whole team was wiped out in what felt like 2 mins (and in some cars ACTUALLY less than 2 mins) and have also seen one or two matches like you described where the survivors outplayed a (obviously) beginner killer.
And according to lots of accounts and anecdotes only people on this forum it ballets even at higher levels for both sides. Without a shadow of a doubt it happens more on survivor (getting destroyed and snowballed early and out) - don’t you think survivors are also feeling killers are broken at times?
it’s obviously not black and white but please don’t make that game (or others) indicative of what happens. New survivors get destroyed much more than new killers.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
These add-ons are the only way I'll play Nurse.
I don't find anything exciting about how easily Nurse stomps pubs. It's not worth slaughtering a thousand lamb, just to find the few lions that'll put up a fight.
I’m stealing this line.
lamb here lol
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3401956#Comment_3401956
They are not quite the same.
Balancing around the top % of players is a top-down balance philosophy. The only thing that matters is the top % of players; games like OW do this. They make changes based off of their competitive E-Sports league.
Balancing for the top % of players is making sure that nothing is egregiously OP in the hands of those players, while still balancing around the average player. Obvious outliers (like old DH or old DS) that massively affect those games should be pruned, of course, but for the most part, you are balancing around the casual player.
@Reinami @Pulsar @devs I'm just wondering aloud here - it seems there is a lot of general discussion around balancing v Top/Higher MMR and Lower MMR. Some have mentioned that going like for like will make queues unbearable. For someone like me who is definitely a lower MMR and won’t understand the nuances fully around the issues at the very highest echelons my statement my seem naive and I trust you both with your rationale to pass judgement on this idea:
How about having a fourth tier for all perks - ones that for both killer or survivor may seem broken at lower levels but more justified at higher.
This tier will remain greyed out and inaccessible for anyone EXCEPT those who are at a certain level and even then, ONLY get activated when they face opponents at a similar level.
Similarly, when they face opponents at a significant unbalanced level lower than them, it may even grey out the Tier 3 so they can only play at Tier 2 of certain perks
Not sure if I’m articulating it well and I can imagine it is heavily dependent on the perks in questions and killers in question but as a general starting idea - I’d be keen for your thoughts.
Ready to be shot down and morid for making a ridiculous idea but forgive me I’m not advocating for this idea just throwing it out for discussion and analysis by more experienced and intelligent members like you both and others on the forum.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3401830#Comment_3401830
Pretty sure they compete in tournaments where Killers DO win.
Not to mention that comp teams (including eternal themselves!) are also some of the top comp killers too
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
When and who do you think will be the next lgbt survivor? I think the next original chapter should have one. They already had david (a free character) come out so i dont think its bad if the next one is for a new chapter.
They can also go back to some of the older characters and add to their lore like david but me personally it just depends who it is. Obviously licensed characters not included
Characters i would want to be not changed: kate, jane, yun jin, zarina, adam, elodie, and felix, ace
characters i would be fine with: dwight meg claudette jake feng nea yui jonah jeff haddie mikaela
the last 3 survivors i dont like or care about so idk about them.
anyways what are your thoughts?
I’d be very interested to know whether a character’s sexuality/religion/ethnicity etc prior to being but into the realm by the entity still affects them (my understanding is they’re in a perpetual state of a kind of limbo by the entity where they endure sacrifice/death and recovered to keep repeating. I’d be keen on seeing characters ongoing lore - whilst around the campfire, how do they get on with each other - being attracted to or forming relationships for example: have their prior beliefs (such as religions etc) been altered or reframed with their own understanding (would a Christian believe they’re in hell or purgatory? Would a Hindu believe they’re in a reincarnation?) and so on.
In regards to sexuality in this topic, whatever a prior orientation (even someone who was hetero and married) they could have their thoughts and belief systems and orientations change based on their current experiences in the game.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395665#Comment_3395665
Recent. I used to just play survivor on Switch and killer (Demo) on PS5 every now and then, but recently started playing survivor on PS5 too so I'm on there more now. On the Switch I rarely ever see killer incentive unless it's like 9.30pm, whereas on the PS5 I'll randomly throughout the day get a killer incentive. I assumed low MMR needs killers more than mid MMR.
I thought I was the only Nintendo switch player in the world lol
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@Mystic_Mizu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3391863#Comment_3391863
Funny enough, I've never had a Nemesis tunnel me... *knock on wood*
He was probably tunnelling the Dwight in your lobby lol
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@Mystic_Mizu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3391863#Comment_3391863
Funny enough, I've never had a Nemesis tunnel me... *knock on wood*
He was probably tunnelling the Dwight in your lobby lol
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3391381#Comment_3391381
Ah, yes. I've had 2 weeks of smooth sailing, I almost forgot how awful they are at just functioning normally. Thank you ✨
as a VM customer I feel your pain..
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3363013#Comment_3363013
That's true.
Surely you can see what I'm saying though. It is a bit hypocritical to only use stats that support your argument while simply throwing out the stats that go against your argument.
Confirmed: Pulsar is definitely the most level-headed, rational and objective poster on the forum. Any and every discussion comment I’ve seen Pulsar make has been genuinely knowledgable and non-confrontational. Even points where I’ve not necessarily agreed with I’ve come away with a different perspective. You’re a credit to the community!