For_The_People
For_The_People
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@feffrey said:
With the healing changes coming into DbD its going to impact SoloQ to where they'll have to stay stacked due to not being able to efficiently heal themselves and SWF are going to play injured for the mast majority of the game. The changes doesn't really do anything to the Vets who play. What concerns me is that now it's going to be easier to tunnel players out of the game right off first hook now that players will play more cautiously not willing to body block or take hits to get the save or protection hit. Leaving that player to fend for themselves they'll be the easy choice to pick. You got 3 healthy survivors not hooked vs 1 injured survivor who has 1 hook. The choice is easy to pick
Why spread hooks out when you got a guaranteed kill now.
This will hurt newer players and the casuals who want to just learn and play the game. You can't learn anything if you get tunneled out the game
I STRONGLY commend your point especially on the fact that newer players won’t have a good chance to learn. It can be soul destroying for new players anyway but now the habits they’ll pick will be borne out of frustration. In an ideal situation, survivors can come to grips with and learn different components and then decide their play style (preferring stealth, taking chases, trying different perks). This new change will almost pen them onto the same style and possibly the same perks. It won’t be healthy at all.
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@TheycallmeLix said:
The amount of times I have to trade hooks or take the down cuz nobody bothers or they get hit and run away is crazy! Especially when I duo SWFed with my friend. I was death hook and I had to trade cuz he would have gotten 2nd stage if I didn’t. Ridiculous how you barely see it anymore and on top of that they Tbag at the exit gate like they did something.. Either go trade or I’m letting you die on hook if you won’t even bother unhooking. I love being altruistic cuz it fits my playstyle and I want to avoid people going struggle phase cuz I know how annoying it can be but if teammates act like this more often, I won’t unhook you anymore and let you die on hook. Anyone else also experiencing this or am I the only person with this bad luck?
To the people that don’t give a damn about your teammates, I hope you will get a Nurse or Blight who slugs you on the ground for 4 min!
lol I need you to join my discord server! I have slowly but steadily building up a group of in game friends who play altruistically. Sure we get steamrolled for being so and take aggro for each other but the purpose is never to be toxic to killer; rather our mindset is “I know how bad it feels for me to not be ‘playing’ as am on hook so I want to try and let my friends survive - even if it means my own death”. When we have a group of people like that it makes the survival even more satisfying and we can get points too.
I play on Nintendo Switch so can never usually chat to people on game or at the end of a lobby but I always try and play in a way I can be useful to my team. When someone is in chase, do gens. When they’re being tunnelled obviously, try to take heat off if I know it’s a mate who isn’t strong at chases or try and read for possible sabo/flashbang save if they’re likely to go down. If someone is hooked, try and go for the save and heal them so they can enjoy the game. This is what I’d like someone to do for me and it’s what I try and do for them.
I salute and respect your efforts - please don’t ever change.
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@StarLost said:
In about 900 odd hours of killer, I've had 3 survivors give me a kill on a blowout game, including my last game.
Curious if other killers have seen similar?
It is interesting that the game's etiquette is for the killer to give the last survivor an out, but the opposite doesn't hold.
Although I don’t actually play killer myself (I can’t get used to first person POV in any game) I have a lot of friends who do and I know it isn’t easy when new or that period when things don’t go right for whatever reason.
If there is any game where it is really obvious that the killer is a baby, or if it was a killer who gave a really good game/intense but fun match, then if it is with friends we’ll all give the kill after gates are open (unless one or more in the group really need the Pips) or at the very least let them farm for two hooks each. As I often use for the people, I end up being the obsession so I know they’ll get extra blood points from me so I point to let my friends know I’ll be willing to get killed.
The exception being if the killer has hard tunnelled/camped unnecessarily or BM’d on hook.
In fact probably half of my friends on my friend list are those I met when they were killer and some of whom friend requested me when I would do this. A lot if these friends play in mini-SWFs in survivor too (not comms). Or as I like to call it DWF as we die together quite often (I’m an eternal potato).
Unfortunately I play on Nintendo Switch (yes I know.. lol) so can’t communicate or chat in any way but I like to think we form good friendships this way.
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@StarLost said:
In about 900 odd hours of killer, I've had 3 survivors give me a kill on a blowout game, including my last game.
Curious if other killers have seen similar?
It is interesting that the game's etiquette is for the killer to give the last survivor an out, but the opposite doesn't hold.
Although I don’t actually play killer myself (I can’t get used to first person POV in any game) I have a lot of friends who do and I know it isn’t easy when new or that period when things don’t go right for whatever reason.
If there is any game where it is really obvious that the killer is a baby, or if it was a killer who gave a really good game/intense but fun match, then if it is with friends we’ll all give the kill after gates are open (unless one or more in the group really need the Pips) or at the very least let them farm for two hooks each. As I often use for the people, I end up being the obsession so I know they’ll get extra blood points from me so I point to let my friends know I’ll be willing to get killed.
The exception being if the killer has hard tunnelled/camped unnecessarily or BM’d on hook.
In fact probably half of my friends on my friend list are those I met when they were killer and some of whom friend requested me when I would do this. A lot if these friends play in mini-SWFs in survivor too (not comms). Or as I like to call it DWF as we die together quite often (I’m an eternal potato).
Unfortunately I play on Nintendo Switch (yes I know.. lol) so can’t communicate or chat in any way but I like to think we form good friendships this way.
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@StarLost said:
In about 900 odd hours of killer, I've had 3 survivors give me a kill on a blowout game, including my last game.
Curious if other killers have seen similar?
It is interesting that the game's etiquette is for the killer to give the last survivor an out, but the opposite doesn't hold.
Although I don’t actually play killer myself (I can’t get used to first person POV in any game) I have a lot of friends who do and I know it isn’t easy when new or that period when things don’t go right for whatever reason.
If there is any game where it is really obvious that the killer is a baby, if it is with friends we’ll all give the kill after gates are open (unless one or more in the group really need the Pips) or at the very least let them farm for two hooks each. As I often use for the people, I end up being the obsession so I know they’ll get extra blood points from me so I point to let my friends know I’ll be willing to get killed.
The exception being if the killer has hard tunnelled/camped unnecessarily or BM’d on hook.
In fact probably half of my friends on my friend list are those I met when they were killer and some of whom friend requested me when I would do this. A lot if these friends play in mini-SWFs in survivor too (not comms). Or as I like to call it DWF as we die together quite often (I’m an eternal potato).
Unfortunately I play on Nintendo Switch (yes I know.. lol) so can’t communicate or chat in any way but I like to think we form good friendships this way.
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@Saiph said:
Survivor role has 39% winrate. This is the only game I know where a role is that weak and yet people still pretend it's too strong.
This game is very clearly killer-sided to anybody who has placed both roles. If the killer wants to win, they'll win, especially at low MMR, the result of a match depends more on the killer's mercy and whether they decide to tunnel/camp rather than the skill of the players in the match.
That doesn't mean killers win all their games, because ultimately MMR tries to balance the game and matches them against sweaty SWFs who have 1000+ hours more than them. As a result everyone gets a frustrating experience and thinks the other side is too strong.
@jajay119 said:
One of the things mentioned in the OP that I always notice is very true is the factor of margin for error. Whilst I don't pay him too much attention, I did see a video once by Otz where he stated that things can turn on a dime due to margin of error i.e. Survivors have a small room for error whereas a killer can have an absolutely terrible match for the most part, but pull it back really quickly in the end game. Whereas survivors can do really well wall match, get the gens done and get the doors powered only to all be hooked and sacrificed in the end game. I don't really have a major point with this, it's just an observation I've noticed a lot recently and it ties in well with the OP lol.
Thanks for your comments guys. I think DBD is quite a unique game. I can’t really think of any equivalents myself (sure there must be some out there). It doesn’t appear to be like a traditional pvp where the (potentially) equal abilities and weakness for both sides are pitted against each other on a map that is neutral for both; power/weapon choices, skill, fluency, timing and sometimes RNG being the deciding factors. I don’t play FPS games but they’re ultimately kill or get killed. Beat em up games like street fighter is an arena where it’s the skills and abilities of one type of fighter against another.
DBD is one person who is faster, with powers and varying strategies - against 4 slower, weaker characters who have to try to escape said killer with environment and perks to offset either how many times they/teammates go down/get killed or to work on objectives to get out quicker.
If this was a one player game, would it be about a survivor evading the tough boss and getting out, or would be about a killer hulk-smashing the pesky enemies?
Who is the game mainly aimed at? What is the ‘main’ drive - a powerful character killing weaker ones before they get gens done and escape, or weaker characters not dying and getting objectives done and escaping?
Should it be more natural for a killer to kill most of the times and survivors play the numbers game and count their lucky stars if one or two get out? Or should it be more natural for survivors to escape and killers feel content if they get one or two kills before this happens?
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@Vagab0ndCat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/360269/thoughts-of-a-bad-player
"survivors experiencing toxicity first from killers"
If you think Im (or any killer for that matter) being toxic for "camping" and "tunneling" aka playing to win, then sorry, but you'd be mistaken.
Hi, I think I may not have articulated myself well, I’m aware of toxicity on both sides. My point was that a survivor starting the game, is unlikely to go into it thinking they want to be toxic (I’m guessing there are those who may exist?) but the vast majority of their first experiences are getting face camped, tunnelled because they’re easy to spot as noobs and quite often hit on hook, nodded at when downed and so on. I’m not saying that tunnelling or camping or playing to win itself is toxic - but think of the effect it has on new players who are powerless to counter play or lack understanding of what’s going on. So when their initial experiences are such, when and if they do get better, they may feel inclined to (and I don’t think it’s right) show toxicity as retribution. Yes, I’m aware that killers may also face that and it’s an endless chain of anger but I’d imagine that when starting the game, killers are able to kill more than a survivor is able to escape. But what do solo survivors have as experience of their gameplay? Usually, attacked and downed within seconds and left hanging and then die. Killers can use their power and even if they miss, one of the thrills is the chase I’d imagine.
In any case, my point is not that all killers are toxic - I’m saying from my own perspective as a survivor, that my experience as a noob was not even getting a chance to play a match long enough to get to grips with it and improve consistently without hundreds of hours and watching other people play (and even then needing to have the skill to perform similar feats)
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@Rizzo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311803#Comment_3311803
I merged the two threads, no worries.
Thank you!
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@burt0r said:
Just out of curiosity and since i don't see it mentioned anywhere in your text, have you ever played killer and if yes, for more than a few matches?
@burt0r said:
Ehm this thread has been double posted (i commented in the other one and wondered in this one where my comment went), could the mods maybe merge them and delete this comment here then?
Ah sorry! My first time posting so may have accidentally done something stupid :(
To answer your question, I very rarely play killer - I happen to be REALLY bad at first person view and find it difficult to.. kill people lol (though have probably killed more teammates than I have as a killer sadly..)
I tend to play killer on some custom matches where friends all let each other try out powers and Moris etc)
I do have a healthy respect for killers in general as a lot of my friends are either killer mains or play both sides equally.
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@burt0r said:
Ehm this thread has been double posted (i commented in the other one and wondered in this one where my comment went), could the mods maybe merge them and delete this comment here then?
Ah sorry! My first time posting so may have accidentally done something stupid :(
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@Sava18 said:
I mean before 6.1.0 the game was flat out survivor sided. Yes, the game does favor killers in the beginning, it's not hard to just m1 people at the start. The game can become flat out healthier with the action icons over a long period of time for sure. Now it is killer sided when we talk about solo queue with the current killer meta which is pretty low skill. But in general both sides can snowball very hard. A minute long chase can be gg for the killer and getting downs every 30 seconds can be gg for the survivors.
Keep in mind there was a 53% kill rate before 6.1.0 and considering how killer sided the game is at low mmr, that number is just absurd and that is what justified people saying the game was survivor sided. You never ever can talk about balance when referring to new players.
Yes, I think as I grew (or continue to grow rather) in the game, I came across - and also seen videos of some pretty exceptionally talented survivors that simultaneously made me in awe as well as appreciate how difficult it can be for killers facing a group of such players.
I find it a bit of a shame that such a good game can be undermined by how the experience can differ for people at the different stages of their development and skill/matching.
Having browsed the forums, there are a lot of points of view from killer and survivor - both of which I can’t help agreeing with. It seems very difficult to balance without making it difficult for one side at some level of the game.
I wonder if matchmaking could pick up info such as how many gens a survivor had completed (I’m willing to bet that new players won’t even survive long enough to have completed a Gen and feel the satisfaction of completing an objective) or how many times/how long they’ve been ‘in chase’. This could indicate the true level of of someone - perhaps such low level players could be paired with a similar level of killer (how many hits/downs/chases/kills) etc?
I’m sure this is gonna present it’s own flaws though lol hard to see a solution 😭