Emeal
Emeal
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@Filipino1490 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002237#Comment_4002237
not a bad idea but to me 20 might be a bit too much i would rather just get rid of the sound cue for survivors but not a bad take
Fair critique, it might be too much. Demogorgon isnt intended to be a "stealth Killer" but he would benefit greatly from getting an injection of "Cold Hard Stealth" In my opinion. Just trying to grasp BHVR's attention for a quick-fix, they will pick the numbers anyway for fairness.
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I would hope when it comes to Demogorgon, we can agree he should have at least what Springtrap has when it comes to stealth after exiting his hole. Especially because of all the hoops and problems he has to go through for teleporting. Let me list them:
1. Survivors can destroy them. 2. It takes time to setup. 3. there is a huge map wide sound effect warning that hes is teleporting.Easy change: Demogorgon gets 20 seconds of Undetectable after Traversing the Upside Down. (Just like Springtrap.)
This would easily being Demogorgon up to match a Killer released recently and also be satisfying to play until BHVR can get a proper look at all the different outdated parts of Demogorgon. As a quickfix while we wait for better fixes, because the more pleasant wait-time the better for us players.
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I don't count this perk as healthy, in fact its pretty bloody annoying to get flashlight blinded at every pallet I break.
Also how this absolute annoying perk removes the use of all my Aura reading for 30 seconds an absurd amount of time in a 1v4.As long as the use gap on Flashlights use is so diffrent in MMR groups, this perk is severely hard to balance.
And I dont want to play another match of having all my perks disabled because 1 person brought 1 perk, such global control over Aura perks should come at the cost of more survivor perk slots than 1, that lasts for 30 bloody seconds. -
@Wolf65 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001984#Comment_4001984
But you can't ask for safety nets for every bad gameplay decision. If someone of the team is making a bad play, the team takes consequences, one way or another. But you ask to take away th killers chance to benefit from their mistake. Is that fair for killer? It's like I would ask, that a random survivor is teleported on a hook, when all gens pop, before I got a K. Killer do not get extra chances, why do survivors get them?
Actually we can ask for that, nobody wants to play a game where if one side gets the advantage the game is literally over.
The Killer still benefits from slugging, even if there is a limit. One Dwight sucking dirt is one Dwight not doing a generator.
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I think its backwards, there has been much much much more problems with the Skull merchant feedback and also the proposed changed require whole new programming, which Myers didnt, which is why we got Myers first.
Pray there are no more controversies about Skull merchant so changes wont be delayed.
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Isn't that the general forum user's problem if people who frequent the Genera Threads don't wanna see Suggestion Threads?
Why don't you just look at Suggestion Threads only like me?And to be fair to the Moderators, they really do need to categorize them for the developers. Doing it the way you suggest would make it harder to find relevant threads on it, it makes a different to people just yapping about things vs. people who wanna suggest changes.
Ill also remind you, getting loads of views and upvotes and reach is not necessarily important. Sure loads of votes can suggest popularity but I find that smaller ideas, changes that are easy to make, can convince developers and that does not necessarily conflict with developer plans have a higher chance of getting in.
Some small perk changes I suggested made its way into the next patch for example, which makes me nerd out like hell.
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@PleaseRewind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002121#Comment_4002121
I don't think anyone is asking to not play and still be rewarded but you shouldn't have to play daily, especially when it comes to the paid track. A few hours a week should be all that is required. I have purchased every Rift since 2021. I'm going to see how it goes after this one ends but if it turns out that I just can't make it to the end (first time) I won't purchase anymore. You'd think Bhvr want to incentivize people purchasing the rift and not turning them off it.
I don't think you HAVE to play every day, I have missed many and I still made it to the End.
A few hours a week should be all that is required.
To unlock the whole rift? huh nah I dont think that is at all fair, You got to be kidding me?
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Yeah, if you want the full Rift, you need daily play too.
Its almost like the system was made to incentivize players to play and not for players who don't want to or cant play to still get a cool reward. I put in my hours playing surely I should be rewarded more than you?
If you are not playing, why should you still get rewarded?
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001912#Comment_4001912
Yeah ok bro just don't read what i say at all
I read it and found it lacking.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001902#Comment_4001902
Bro, i know generators have skill checks but just because they are getting finished fast doesn't mean they're skilled, toolboxes and killers with no chase powers on pallet dense maps exist xD
No they are efficient on gens, you are not. Your MMR is clearly too high and you are fighting to keep a spot you nearly cannot. I advice you to play without perks until your win rate is stable and start from there again.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001833#Comment_4001833
Yeah but the problem is most killers cant afford to do this. If they basekit pop the meta is just gonna be to finish gens as fast as possible especially at the start and as long as you don't 3 gen you'll be good.
if you are so strapped for time, that you cant kick a generator. then your MMR is clearly too high and you are fighting to keep a spot you nearly cannot. I advice you to play without perks until your winrate is stable and start from there again.
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Pop is better because it encourages Killers to kick Gens, if you want automatic regression, you run Pain Res.
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You mean fix the Twins, Nobody wants to play against a Killer that puts Survivors on the floor for minutes.
Best Twins can hope for is a rework soon, we literally cant stop changing the game for the better because of two to three Killers.
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Players are not matchmaked based on Rank anymore. The Game uses a hidden MMR system now.
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A Werewolf Killer is a fun idea, but i dont think the human form needs to help the Survivors to be OP in wolf form.
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When does Myers teleport to a Jack O'Lantern in the movies?
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Im sorry one of the oldest and worst is the one is the one sole reason you return, but that Killer has so many problems with their Kit and Gameplay in general that it needed to be changed.
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Its almost like the Rift System was made to get people to do the dailies and keep a good player amount?
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Being passive to tunnelers would not work, the ones who tunnel the most does not care about getting a nice message.
or one million BPS, its nothing.
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Generator speeds are fine, its Killers who refuse to patrol them and get survivors off them.
Had a match with a Wesker recently, first 3 min was chasing the first person.
He ran past me on a Gen 3 times within less than 8m.Then we pop the first 3 gens he starts to tunnel because of it, told us postgame chat, we were Gen rushing him.
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@YukariTheAlpaca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999973#Comment_3999973
Why would I create balance ideas around cheaters? Shouldn't that be something that BHVR tries to deal with on a technical level? This comment makes no sense.
I didnt say you did create the balance ideas around cheaters, I'm saying its the logical outcome of your bracket suggestion.
Because they usually use a fresh new account for cheating. -
Nah, I rather want to play the new one. The old was a weird mix of too weak and too strong flip flopping back and forth.
So I rather have something more consistant to play that isnt busted with specific addons.BHVR did a good job.
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By that logic, All hackers would end up terrorizing the newest players. That doesnt seem smart.
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I think you are in the vast minority of players when you say that, Honestly I have watched many of my friend group's dbd sessions be cut short after two repeated tunneling games. Especially the less skilled players in our 2 to 3 man SWF.
BHVR is very brave and cunning for wanting to fix this, its been leaking players for 9 years.
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honestly BHVR's idea to have consequences for tunneling works better than to remove death
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Better idea yet, Disable the Anti- Tunneling systems for top MMR Games.
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February next year.
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@Bridger said:
Look BHVR yall need to rethink this update because if you go threw with this you will lose players and mainly because killer mains wont want to play anymore because at that point survivors will be invincible. i hope you think this threw.
why are we punishing the killers in this upcoming update
Because tunneling or focusing a player out is making people quit too.
I think BHVR is taking a bold stance, they rather challenge Killers to not tunnel and maybe lose some Killers.
Then profusely bleed off more survivors leaving the game. -
https://youtu.be/Y6iQAGbtmUY?feature=shared&t=577
Footage: Sable fast.
Her build:
Hope you can get to the bottom of this.
DeadByDaylight.log -
actually, just tone it down slightly, this looks fantastic.
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I agree, good starting points. Needs more refinement.
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I think there is some merit to that complaint, cause you never know where in the MMR system a Killer is and how much skill they have. My solution is to make the penalty scale based on a number of factors:
@Emeal said:
So I see your are rolling back the Tunneling Reduction Update until another PTB… Do what you need to do BHVR.
It is no secret that I am a Killer Veteran and maybe Im just too damn good, but I was able to Power through the +25%GenSpeed without an issue, while other Killer players (bless them) say they have problems with it.
If you dont see why Survivors need to be compensated in 3v1 when a player is focused out early, then you should really look into it, I am not here to explain why Tunneling is a tumor in this game. But quickly it makes Survivors quit, messes with game balance and puts Killers in higher MMR than their skill level should be. IF you don't see why that is a problem, then I cant help you see it its beyond my skill. Sorry.
The Obvious Solution is to take in more factors and tailor the Tunneling Penalty given to each Killer individually, all with the express purpose of making a 3v1 be only slightly harder than 4v1.
- MMR Specific Starting points.
The Matchmaking ranking should factor into how much %GenSpeed is needed, based on how well Survivors in general in tiers of MMR. We will use this as out base, what this bonus should focus on is making sure the balance of the 3v1 match is as close to 4v1 as possible, otherwise tunneling will still be a benefit. - How many Gens are left?
This also need to be accounted for 3 Gens are harder to do 3v1 than 1 generator. So it does not make sense to give a stock value and call it fair. The Killers who say this have a point. So make it so that based on how many Gens are left the %GenSpeed is lowered or increased based on how far the match has progress for Survivors. - Repeat Offender Increase
Its no surprise that some Killers are better than others, and I am begging BHVR on my knees here as a Killer Veteran with quite the considerable skill at Tunneling. That you MUST factor in if the Killer has tunneled in earlier matches and only make it recess by consecutive games played without tunneling. This should increase the %GenSpeed aswell by a factor.
I am begging you, cause this is the only way your Tunneling Penalty can reach people like me, without being insanely unfair to other Killers. - How well are Survivors at dealing with a 3v1?
It is no surprise that some survivors are better at responding to a Tunneled out player, so I think to make this suggestion as thorough as possible you need to look at in games where a player was tunneled/focused out early, how did it go for this particular Survivor and then buff them 0% to X% accordingly
These factors should be very good at specifically addressing each individual tunneling or focus situation that would happen in games, and tailor it to fit the Survivors and the Killer, which is what we want to happen.
Thanks for reading!
I think we need to show some humanity to these Killers and make sure to tailor the system better to them.
- MMR Specific Starting points.
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@Jhei said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996191#Comment_3996191
If survivors fail to manage Condemned stacks, then why are we penalized for using that aspect of our power, and yes, her mori is part of her power. Her entire gimmick is tied to her lore, 7 days until death unless you remove the curse, 7 stacks and you can die unless you remove the curse. If she's so easy to tunnel survivors out as you say, why isn't she tunneler's #1 pick right now? Since in the live game killing someone with Inexorable Stare after they've been hooked does not block generators, she should be even more effective at tunneling, by your statement.
If survivors fail to manage Condemned stacks, then why are we penalized for using that aspect of our power,
You are not penalized as much as Survivors are, be it tunneling or just a player sucks it does not matter, we cant allow tunneling to remain as strong as before. Therefore the remaining Survivors are compensated, they are buffed. Why are they buffed? Because 3v1 is easier than 4v1. So should a Survivor die before 6th hook its perfectly fair game to rebalance the stakes.
What this means is:
Tunneling isnt as strong anymore AND Killers are incentivized to get 6 hookings before trying to end the game.This is exactly what we want to end tunneling, and Survivors getting time to play until Killer's mid game is a pleasant benefit.
Does it feel like the new rules are targeting you? Yeah, it might, but all it does is that it makes sure 3v1 is as hard as 4v1.In that sense yes, All Killers who can eliminate a Survivor early is nerfed.
So what you can do is slug the condemned and wait OR Kill them early and try you luck in rebalanced 3v1.@HexBloodBath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996191#Comment_3996191
Have to hard disagree. Sadakos power is based off moris. Her whole point as a killer is to teleport and spread condemn. She liable to condemn survivors who don’t grab tapes in time and that’s the survivors vault if they can’t grab tapes and she is just doing her job as a killer. Also Sadako players hardly tunnel anyone if anything survivors have to be smart and find TVs. TBH this change is unnecessary and they should revert it.
I have condemn Killed a Survivor at 5 gens before, Sadako is not so innocent as you say here.
As long as she can use her Power to get a Kill early this way, she can be used for tunneling without the new rules.
This is why we need the new rules. -
Sadako's power isnt to Mori Survivors, Sadako's mori is a failure of the Survivor to manage condemned stacks.
If Sadako's Mori didnt could that it would be super easy to tunnel Survivors out as Sadako.
How else would she be balanced, then and not become tunnelers no #1 pick, I ask you? -
@Nightram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995632#Comment_3995632
Were you trying to answering someone else in the comments?
Please read the whole post before commenting. Thia is for Custom game features!
Yeah I read it, I knew it was for a Custom Mode. Why would i want it ?
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nah, getting tombestoned 30 sec into a match was not fun.
You might aswell bring back the instant Mori from the Alpha.
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Hey mate, Can you point out more details about the
he got a penalty even though he wasn't tunneling
At what part of the game did he get it? at how many hook states? why did he get it? what rule was broken?
Getting to know the details should help the Devs, understand and make the system better.
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Is that really a bug? More like a happy accident.
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@tuttoinunavolta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994766#Comment_3994766
I absolutely agree that they demand our respect, and I apologize if me calling the new mechanic dumb offended any of the them.
I would say that comparing "this new mechanic is dumb" to a punishment or a deliberate attempt at torning up the devs themselves is a bit too far-fetched though, I would never call the actual people at BHVR (who always work hard on the game all the time, and have made great changes in this same patch too for example) dumb, and that would be the case even if I disliked every single change ever added to the game. I provided constructive criticism in my post, the original title highlighted my discontent with the proposed change without in any way addressing the people who work on the game.
Either way my question was really just out of curiosity since I didn't expect it, at the end of the day the important part of my original post was in the post itself.
Its just uncalled for language, its a work environment and you kind of have to meet the standard of office culture when you are here. All you need to do is provide the constructive criticism any other criticism, especially name calling is just not kosher.
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@tuttoinunavolta said:
Mods, may I ask why my title was edited? @Rizzo
The original title was <The "death before 6 hooks" penalty is really dumb and wasn't thought through>
I didn't call any person dumb, I didn't call the devs dumb and would never, obviously. I said this particular decision is really dumb, while praising other changes from this PTB in the same post, so I thought it was clear it was not an attack on anybody.
May I ask why that needed to be edited out?
Cause saying something is dumb is not constructive and these posts are shared with the developers who dont need to get torn up by your verbage. Its their work to be listening to you, not their punishment. They demand our respect.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994070#Comment_3994070
If that's true… are you telling me that one survivor doing a gen in 72 seconds and two in 42 seconds IS NOT STRONG???
Dude, you are delusional. And BHVR is… well, I can say what I think right now of them in this forum.
Dont call people names sir, we can agree to disagree.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993562#Comment_3993562
I already made the case for why it tips into the survivors favor both by explaining…
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993160#Comment_3993160
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993479#Comment_3993479
… and by example.
If you are playing Trapper and, for example:
· You hook Survivor A.
· You hook Survivor B.
· Survivor A got caught in a trap. Hook him again.
· You don't find any other survivor for a while. Survivor A got caught in another trap.
If you hook Survivor A again, even if you didn't tunnel that survivor in any way and that hook will be the result of their own incompetence, you don't get the "unique hook" buffs, you grant the rest of the survivors a boost on repair speed, and all gens can't be regressed or blocked at 2 - 3 gens done by now. So, you either ignore him and don't punish his mistake, or the game will punish you. Totally fair, not hand-holding at all.
Also, in the main post of the update, where I already debunked your attempt to defend this, I also explained some of the ways survivors can exploit this mechanic to gain an unfair advantage.
If you are unable to understand it or you are adamant to admit that on paper this update includes the most exploitable, hand-holding, and one-sided mechanics they have ever thought of, it's on you. Like it is now, it will give an unfair advantage and protect survivors from their mistakes, no matter the numbers they put there.
The only good thing about this update is that it is showing who really cares about the balance of the game and who is just a survivor main in the worst meaning of the term that doesn't even understand the game he is playing.
So turns out its 25% vs 3v1 and it doesnt work if Survivors leave their Survivors on hook.
That isnt strong.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992952#Comment_3992952
I literally told you why it is an issue. In fact, it is one of the biggest issues with these mechanics outside pure exploitation from the survivor part.
If there are 4 survivors still alive and 3 gens have been done, the only way to make a comeback is by removing one survivor from the match and hoping for them to snowball. Something you won't be able to do if you have less than 6 hooks, even if survivors mess up and it will be their fault, because then you will be left with 3 buffed survivors and / or not be able to regress the last 2 gens. I think it is not that hard to understand.
And gen rushing has been an issue for years now. And it will be even worse than before because, again, now we won't be able to counter it in the only way BHVR has left us (after so much hand-holding basekit mechanic and regression nerfing) without getting punished for it.
My guy if Survivors have made it to 3 Gens and you have not made it to 6th hook and they decide to kill the last Survivor to gain the compensation and try their luck at using it then you should slug the Survivor and make a play, if you are Pig, Pyramid Head you will have to make the play with the compensation.
Again I ask the question I made in my first post, Why do you think the 6th hool rule will be grossly in the Survivor's favour??
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992849#Comment_3992849
Because it can trigger at any moment of the match, with any number of gens done and survivors left, and it will punish you for the mistakes of the survivors instead of them?
If you are playing Trapper and, for example:
- You hook Survivor A.
- You hook Survivor B.
- Survivor A got caught in a trap. Hook him again.
- You don't find any other survivor for a while. Survivor A got caught in another trap.
If you hook Survivor A again, even if you didn't tunnel that survivor in any way and that hook will be the result of their own incompetence, you don't get the "unique hook" buffs, you grant the rest of the survivors a boost on repair speed, and all gens can't be regressed or blocked at 2 - 3 gens done by now. So, you either ignore him and don't punish his mistake, or the game will punish you. Totally fair, not hand-holding at all.
But hey, do you really want to compensate for these atrocious mechanics? Let's implement this for survivors:
- If two generators are done without a hook happening in between, survivors get a repair penalty and reveal their aura to the killer.
- If the first 3 gens are done without a kill happening, all survivors get Exposed until one kill happens.
That's a great system to prevent gen rushing in compensation for the other changes, right?…
It being able to trigger at any point is not an issue, and Gen rushing is not the issue we are dealing with in this PTB, if its a big enough issue then maybe.
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It was thought through and the obvious conclusion is that it doesnt matter.
If a player dies to Condemn, Trap or something else before 6th hooks the game just rebalances to 3v1, the advantage you would gain is nullified by the bonus Survivors get and so their death is inconsequential.
Why do you think it will put the game grossly in the Survivors favour??
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Hi, sorry you had a bad experience, but please dont name drop any player you have a problem with here.
if you wish to file a report of a player, it has to happen here: https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us/requests/newPlayers are mean for many reasons, bad day etc, it just happens so its better to report and move on.
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@SoGo said:
I would rather see it made in a way where it punishes a true hardcore tunnel (so someone dead at 4 total hooks)
True, but Im thinking this is also to mend how screwed games are when 1 Survivor is killed, so to do both then you can justify settling on the half way mark. I am not against early mid game tunneling also taking a hit.
Its about keeping the game engaging and constant until at least the half way mark. Which isnt a bad idea to me.
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Well I mean, the next PTB should satisfy you then. 😆
Well see this is the bit most players don't see to get about BHVR, which is that they listen but they also question and check claims made. These questions and claims are answered by the statistics guys who can see what is going on in the millions of games played. Sometimes you see a BHVR employee say things like "pillars" which is their 3 part check system really as far as I can see this.
1.We have the playerbase, the source of all feedback and the most powerful and conflicting part.
Every idea we say is observed and probably noted, even the stuff other people say, the people we think are ruining the game!We all want to be listened to and we are, but the problem is only action proves we were listened to which is why the myth exists.
2. Then we have BHVR itself, some smart develops who read these feedback reports which the Community managers make for them I imagine. Now here is the important part, when the Game Developer reads the idea, if the idea makes sense to them then he can act on it and design, but if the idea makes no sense or is preposterous to implement its archived or added to the "wish we could do this list" at BHVR.
Ofc these feedback threads also server other purposes, like reporting bugs/ exploits, but that is outside this discussion.
So what this mean if you want your feedback to actually spark some changes in the game, It needs to make sense to the developer reading it and it needs to make sense to them or be something that is verifiably accurate. They are the ones who set the process in part 3 in motion. Game Development is hard and that honestly means Feedback is even harder to get in.
There are all sorts of things I don't understand that BHVR takes into account when thinking about this, budget, work time and the plans they made a year ago. See this is where popular ideas can make way, because if an idea is popular there is value. But that isnt the whole story…
3.Last part of the System is the Statistics, these absolute monsters will verify, confirm or debunk any idea asked by the developers to verify by digging through the game and find if any data supports an idea. So if Blight is OP, then they have the answer. Sometimes this is why a good idea can get shot down, it happens.
So to sum up:
- We the community make an idea. (or BHVR does themselves.)
- BHVR looks at idea and says nah, maybe or yeah based on popularity, budget or something.
- Maybe's and Yeah's are sent to Statistics guys/ gals to be fact-checked,
sends back idea with true, false, meh or 'see me after class stickers.' - Idea comes back to BHVR for nah, maybe or yeah again (this process is probably repeated)
- Idea is then archived, planned to be implemented or added to the the "wish we could do this list"
So here is what I think makes the suggestions with the best chances based on these assumptions I have about BHVR.
- Is constructive and clear. (community managers likely rephase ideas in reports)
- Is able to convince multiple developers at BHVR of its goodness.
- Is possible to verify in statistics.
- Is feasible to implement given their budget and plans.
This is a high bar it seems, but the checks and balanced are necessary to make sure good ideas get in and bad design gets out.
Again, im not a BHVR insider, but I imagine their process is like 70% this, idd love to hear it from a Community manager tho.Personally I think the smallest ideas have the best chance to get through this process, but dont let that discourage you.
If you have a good idea that will make DBD way better, we want that all it takes is say it and it gets its fair shot. -
@HoS Yeah, the idea isnt flawless and perfect on its own, we can only hope BHVR has done their research regarding balance.
All the values are also up for rebalance again and again, but the genius of the idea is how it demolishes tunneling and just rebalanced to rules to keep the game up for grabs for either side still. That IS genius to me, surgical and precisely targeting at what needs to go.Honestly I just think the framing in the Dev Update was not painting the best picture for the design.
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@HoS said:
I hate that you're being downvoted for this.
Releasing a dev update without concrete values is driving so many people crazy right now and it's utterly pointless.
It's nice to have early updates but like… We can't even play so what do we do? We cry on forums and Twitter?
In the meantime we just imagine scenarios or whatever. Completely useless.Yeah, but im kinda being critical of the community's uncontrolled panic here so it was never going to do well.
It does not matter really, BHVR will look at an idea and value it on its merits and how much sense it makes rather than just popularity. So Im not worried, I just wanted to make sure BHVR Community Managers got to consider this.