Emeal
Emeal
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Me when I can run to the other end of the map and he can catch up in 3 seconds.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013480#Comment_4013480
Are people quitting massively directly because of the tunnel issue, or a combination of different problems within the game?
In the case of four of my acquaintances, they left for completely different reasons, for example. Greed, bugs, technical issues, lack of challenge, community sentiment. We don't have statistics that directly support specific position. You can only try to stretch the truth to any emotional statement that suits you, and to any sane person this would seem like a very weak argument.
I also find this survey question incredibly ridiculous. Asking why you don't play the game when the survey itself is only available if you play the game or follow the media is absurd, pardon me.Especially when the list excludes options for another side.This questionnaire is not capable of facilitating productive research, I say this from the perspective of a Game Design student who sits over researches every day
You are right, WE dont have statistics. And for the Survey, I dont think they are asking for what you think they are here, likely only the active player base. But BHVR does have the statistics and given the response to tunneling they rolled out, I would say its likely alarming. If the game designers realize they need to do something about it then what really is there to consider for us?
What does it take for you to consider there might be a problem with doing something about in Dead by Daylight?
For me:
All it takes is for BHVR to want to do something about it then its very likely a problem big enough to be worth doing something about.What do you need to think its worth doing something about?
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013398#Comment_4013398
Clocked it IMO.
I used to be of the same opinion that "I'm being tunneled all the time and it's making Survivor miserable" and then I saw this video and thought, wait he actually has a point here. You can actually check my post history and see I've complained about the abundance of camping/tunneling/slugging etc. in the past, particularly during events so I'm not just making this up here for anyone doubting.
I was fairly certain I was seeing tunneling way more than what he was saying so I decided to actually count how often it happens in my games and was faced with the realisation that me or my teammates were actually NOT being tunneled that often. At most it happens in ~2/10 matches and I was just overestimating it in my head due to negativity bias.
The vast majority of my Survivor matches were actually being ruined by OTHER Survivors. I get downvoted and hated on whenever I say this, but that's the truth. Survivors not doing gens, Survivors giving up, Survivors repeatedly making really bad plays, etc. is the reason most solo queue matches go south — not tunneling. It's just easier to blame an opponent than your own team.
I'm not saying tunneling doesn't happen — it definitely does and it is unpleasant when it crops up. But the rate people claim it happens at is verifiably untrue. Like no one has EVER proven it. For me, the claim "I'm being tunneled all the time." is just a blatant over exaggeration until I'm proven otherwise.
Personally Im way way way more likely to quit playing Survivor from tunneling over a useless team-mate.
I think the problem with that is those two diffrent kinds of problems, is that only tunneling gives you way more likely ensurance that the game is over the moment it happens. While 1 team member hiding and not doing gens, nobody knows for sure this is a problem until the game is almost finished and by then you are already out of the game and you had to have meaningful play.
This is why tunneling is way way way way worse, even if it does not happen as often.
What BHVR is likely looking out for this what was asked in the Survey,
If people are quitting over tunneling in masses, then it does not really matter if it happens like 2/10. its a problem
If we assume tunneling can happen 2 in 10 and we allow 10% risk of a player quitting for good on every tunneling event, then if we are 50 000 players playing this with 10 games each every day. then we are out of Survivors in 20 days.But the problem is that one leak of players feed into other problems, like if the Queue takes too long I might play something else.
BHVR should have metrics on how likely a "tunnel game" is to make players quit for the day, it should be easy to track.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013382#Comment_4013382
Please. It does not happen that often. I can go dozens of games without seeing hard tunneling. You can watch any survivor main stream and see it doesn't happen that often. The sample size is way greater than "personal experience". After a certain point people are either lying or grossly exaggerating.
https://youtu.be/HI7FFpVpgRY?si=7A5KPyjPjxXRiCPG
Nobody can ever substantiate these claims. They just say it happens "every game" and gnash their teeth. Anybody that says this: message me. We can duo queue. If we see hard tunneling in like ten games I'll get you a steam game of your choice up to 40$. Prove it.
So we will Queue up in my region, play 10 Survivors games and if a single Survivor on our teams gets tunneled out early in more than 2 games, You will buy me a 40 dollar Steam game. Sure lets do it. We can also repeat this multiple times.
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Few of the developers have Twitch stream, I have personally played against a few of them. Can confirm they do play.
because you have birthed a rather common sentiment
No, BHVR has NOT birthed that, it all come from the community its all a bandwagon belief and popular misconception.
An assumption they all make without proper confirmation, not even a gram of research is set into this.Its just a harmful meme, that nobody who says takes seriously or thinks about even for a second.
It took me less than 5 seconds on google to find games from Developers. -
Not even 10 games go by without a few with Tunneling and Team-mates get sacrificed at 5 gens.
How are we supposed to even hope to deal with such games as Survivors???
Please BHVR we need that anti-tunneling system soon. -
Hah, No. no we cant all agree it wasn't an issue.
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I mean fair point, but isnt this the same problem with the PIG or Ghostface?
Isn't a Bubba with Stealth Perks then also equally unplayable for you?The solution is ofc to add a swirl effect to the Terror radius indicator every time a Killer gives a sound clue of their attack, right?
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Yeah, I think his Left hand is too darn big.
Otherwise I think the Cosmetic is nice, I would maybe have wanted more sheet to flap around.
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I dont see Milestones as a Reward to Obtain, rather If I play that much then I can get that. but it does not motivate me to play.
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What @SigmaLord said was the problem and why the system got changed.
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Yeah, its funny, I wish it would do something that could be cool.
But most of all I want BHVR to make it easier to give a mushroom to another person. Forcefeed them if needed to.
"Open up Claudette" *forces mushroom down*
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Well it needs an activation sound so a second before it starts so I can take full advantage.
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@PleaseRewind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010201#Comment_4010201
"If you are in doubt about what other people believe, you could ask you know."
Hence, why I wrote it "came across" and "seem". I didn't state this is what you believed or ever wrote this specifically. This is basically asking what you believe. You replied that this isn't the case. Fair enough, end of story and it's getting off topic anyway.
As for the topic at hand. I've stated my case so there nothing else to say. I will add I'm not sure if 15 hours is correct. I'm at 14 hours for the last 30 days and I would have most likely played around the same for the other 2 months. Maybe slightly less 11 or 12 hours. I'm at level 97 on the Rift.
You should note though, "came across" and "seem" implies you made a conclusion about someone.
This is basically asking what you believe.
"Basically asking" would be just asking,
"basically asking" is not serving them your assumptions in an ask they debunk them for you. Hope you see the difference.Its all social humbug to me, I cant be asked to vibe check people. Even if I suspect a person to argue in bad faith it does not matter to me, ill argue with the positions he presents. Why? because even bad faith arguments usually have grains of truth stuck around in it and they are worth acknowledging.
Anyway yes, if does not serve the purpose of the forum so we better not.
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@IndigoNinja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010427#Comment_4010427
That's not the point. The point of this is that there's no investigation as to WHY an addon has a high usage rate.
Take Ghostface and Philly for example. It was found out that Philly was used so much because not only was it a Common/Brown addon, but it made it so that it was so much faster to mark survivors before someone revealed him out of Stealth. This addon was made partially basekit and its value was appropriately adjusted.
With Unknown and Vanishing Box, the devs are seemingly not investigating WHY Vanishing Box supposedly had a high pick rate. Up until the first nerf of Vanishing Box, I'd seen the addon fairly frequently in my survivor games. Since the original nerf I have only seen this addon TWICE. TWICE.And even now, I haven't seen this addon since then. I haven't even used this addon since Map offerings were nerfed because I only ever used Vanishing Box to snipe people from the top of Eyrie's main building for clips.
Are people getting more value out of this addon than I am? Probably! But I'd also like to see what the pick rate of addons are as well as actual dev notes as to why specific addons are being flat out being destroyed from orbit.It's genuinely getting tiring, and another killer that received a similar treatment was Nemesis with Marvin's Blood. And there's other killer that have experienced similar treatment in the past as well, however at this time I don't know all the killers that have experienced this kind of treatment with addons.
Yeah, but can you imagine the length of the patchnotes if the Devs should justify every lil change?
They dont want to write like 10 000 words for that. -
Just looking forward to the next PTB right now.
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The PTB is to identify and get a head start on Large Bugs and Issues, it is not to finish all bug fixes before the release.
The PTB process isn't very good, but its mostly for a stab in the dark at those bugs and the larger ones do stand out.Why do it this way?
Well, Playstation's Sony takes about 3 weeks to check a large patch for a game, Steam works on a developer trust system.
So 3 weeks before a release, development is basically put to a halt cause it has been shipped to Sony.So instead of twiddling thumbs they have this PTB to catch more issues and get a headstart on those AND prepare a possible day 1 patch. Now from the PTB, they trusted us players too much. "Krasue was clunky" OK said BHVR we can fix that for Release day.
Come day 3 and everyone is screaming, that flying potato is too strong, now depending on the issue it can be fixed fast BUT that also has to be submitted to Sony and checked and released a few days after.
TLDR:
They have a QA Team but things are more complicated. Without the PTB day 1 or week 1 and 2 patches would not be feasible. -
Did you try the recent PTB? there might be some changes coming you might find good-
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@IndigoNinja said:
@KeefCheif TLDR I'm tired of random addons getting nerfed to nothing and no QOL adjustments being made to the Killer.
But Don't Worry We Can Look Up Now!If an addon is over-performing, BHVR can see this via statistics, then it should be nerfed right?
Sure the people who abuse it, might be out of your MMR range, but this game has a wide range of players. -
@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010201#Comment_4010201
You didn't seem to note my explanation of the deal you accept in Battlepasses
The matter of fact is that if the time investment required for said deal is too steep, then that's just a terrible deal. It makes the playerbase unhappy and should probably be changed.
Correct, but we dont know if it IS too steep for the playerbase in general and how many of the playerbase is unhappy.
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@PleaseRewind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010134#Comment_4010134
The way you came across in your other post on this subject made it seem like you believe everyone should play as much as you do, or else they don’t deserve the rewards. Of course, I can’t read minds, I can only go by what you actually write.
As for how many hours someone should invest, that’s hard to say. Do you have a “sweet spot” number in mind? Personally, I still feel that since it’s called the Rift Quests and Rift Pass, completing all of the Rift Quests should be enough to finish it. The additional quests should serve as a bonus or as a boost for players who can’t finish every Rift Quest.
Sure, no one is forced to buy the Rift, but Bhvr is only hurting themselves if too many players stop buying because they feel like they can never complete it. I think they at least need to roll back to the numbers from the first iteration of the Rift/quest system. It still required a reasonable amount of playtime, but it felt much more fair.
What have I written that says everyone should play as much as I do?
If you only go by what I have written, what have I written that says that?If you are in doubt about what other people believe, you could ask you know.
Its better than assuming something and then giving me your assumptions, like I would recognize them.@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010134#Comment_4010134
I'm not personally insulting you, I'm just saying what vibes your points are putting across. It is a super elitist attitude to think that other people "aren't entitled" to content they paid for because they can't put in multiple hours of game time per day, that's an unreasonable ask, especially compared to other industry standards.
This is a video game, not a job.
This is why I ask so what amount of game time should be enough to finish the Rift?
I think they already had the sweet spot beforehand.
It should require some amount of effort, because that's the reward loop battle passes provide. You feel like you're earning the rewards more. However, it should absolutely be reasonable to take a break in the middle of a battlepass cycle and still be able to catch up with relative ease afterwards.
That's kind of the point of time-gated quests in these contexts. They provide a steady level of progression for active players, and a bank of fast progression saved up for players who take a break. If you fall behind on progress because of an extended break, then you have a big burst of progress available for you.
For the record I have been sat at Tier 100 for the past few weeks. These changes did not affect me as much because I'm a pretty dedicated player anyway. However, this is the first rift in a long time where people have consistently complained that it has felt too difficult to earn the rewards, and that means they've done something wrong with these changes.
You didn't seem to note my explanation of the deal you accept in Battlepasses, I ask you again to please tell me if you understand the deal or you choose to gloss over the details and requirements of the deal and you seem to claim you or anyone else are entitled to the rewards of the paid track even tho someone might not have met the requirement. Because that claim is what, "I have paid for…" means in regards to Battlepasses.
Anyway back to the real meat of the discussion, BHVR will have to pick a number for the minimum possible requirement, my friend told me he spent minimum time in the events and finished all the quests in the last week. says he spent 15 hours on it for the last Rift. I don't know if that is true.
But as an example is 15hours in 3months the optimal commitment that BHVR should be looking for?
Too much or too little? -
@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002323#Comment_4002323
Playtime doesn't really mean anything in this context. You both bought the rift, that's the exact same amount of money in BHVR's wallet, it doesn't matter to them if you finish it or not.
You're coming off as really weird and elitist. It doesn't affect you if people who can't play quite as much as you get the cosmetics too.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002918#Comment_4002918
free goodies
Chief I don't know why this needs to be explained to you but the battle pass costs money.
Please don't call me insulting names on the forum. Thank you very much.
I am here to have a productive discussion as much as anyone else.The free track is free and you are not forced to buy anything. You could choose to buy it at the end of its life cycle and make an informed choice if you want those paid track cosmetics or not. I buy it because I know I am likely to complete it. How is that really weird and elitist? It isn't.
What you buy is clearly stated, its a play track, it means its purpose is to reward you for playing the game.
The paid track is extra cosmetics which you can buy depending on how much you played.I think you kinda just want to confuse what deal BHVR offers here, the narrative that you say that you paid for the track somehow entitles you to cosmetics you have not played and earned yet is false, but I can see why you make that argument.
It sucks to have bought a paid track and then realize you cant finish it, somewhat losing money on what COULD have been gained. Ofc the wise decision is to hold your money until you know what you can reasonably get. But BHVR does also like to put enticing cosmetics ready on Level 1, encouraging you to buy in. I don't think we can persuade BHVR to not do that.
This is why I ask so what amount of game time should be enough to finish the Rift?
But rarely gives a serious amount, because I imagine they don't accept the deal of the Battlepass, having not understood what you accepted or maybe you don't care and see it as a bit of a protest against the Battlepass System.Either way is fine, but its a different discussion and BHVR is probably open to dialing back the grind.
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@Gplays2000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002121#Comment_4002121
maybe because they … paid for it?
How did they pay for it?
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She needs a Rework!
like Old Myers she suffers from having to be a severe setup and then fact that Survivors strategy is to deny her the second part of her power makes her an absolute bore to play. If Krasue's second form could be denied by not healing, people would drop her fast too.
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Basically @ImWinston is right, BHVR has not been about getting too close and deep into a Religious Topic.
They would have to tackle this in a very careful way if they did so. -
Yeah, both for a full 3 piece random outfit or just randomly between the full outfits would be nice. AND
Randomly between Presets. would be perfect.A simple Toggle would be great.
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I think the model is mirrored, so the only have to store half a cat texture. Which would work great, except that shadows interact with the model split point around the center of the model. it looks better in-game, but in a high light environment, its bad.
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Well Myers is specifically better than other Dash attacks, because he is still a setup Killer. Has to stalk to gain his dash.
@runningguy said:
this actually made me chuckle a little bit. someone saying rework myers should be nerfed?! i have still not lost a single match as survivor v a rework myers and im not a great survivor. there is no other killer so far that i can make that statement about. can i maintain this win streak v myers or will i lose it before or after he gets buffed? remains to be seen
And all your other team-mates Survived? Then MMR must be more inaccurate than we anticipated.
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We resurrecting a 2year old post because of the Otzdarva video it was in? Cool.
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idd like maps to be more dark, especially coldwind as much as alot of guys. But the Old Old maps were too dark.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009142#Comment_4009142
Its downright outrageous BHVR delivers an excellent new power which performs excellent
They slapped a turncap and a cooldown on his lunge and made it break pallets. It's not exactly a mastercraft of technical work like you seem to think it is.
You do not need to start personally insulting people who don't like the power either, it really isn't that serious.
My apologies I didn't meant to imply everyone's response to Myers Rework were snobbish. I got ahead of myself there, Sorry for insulting anyone, snobbish is definitely too much on the nose too, you are right. Thanks for pointing that out.
Some I definitely assess as seeing problems where none exist after I questioned them about it. That includes being overly dismissive of the Killer, people I have talked to on here have admitted to spending less than a single match on Myers.
Regarding your description of Slaughtering Strike, if it works then it works. A Simple solution is often the best too.
I still do find your assessment to be overly critical of the Slowdown, loads of Killers have slowdowns in their Power, but nobody bats an eye. But suddenly Myers cant do his 99 Stalk T3 Bomb anymore so they have to play fairly and suddenly its a problem.
I'm no game designer, but its almost like BHVR recognized that T3 Bombing was bad gameplay and needed to go.
And you just cant play him the old way. To me, that's is an absolute win for Myers. More Healthy Gameplay that is fair? Sign me up.In fairness all Slowdowns would feel bad, some are necessary, but if I cared only about getting that down perhaps Idd see it the same way. But there is the meta game play and time efficiency and so far I have not lost much of any, besides the usual loses you have when you have to learn a new power.
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@Gardhome said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009030#Comment_4009030
Well most of Myers players dont and you see it in comments that almost everyone hate new Myers. Slaughering strike is useless and to hard to hit. I mean like 99% feedback say that current Myers is garbage its only matter of time when they revert all his changes
If the Community waste all BHVR hard work again on another Killer then I will be severely disappointed.
Luckily with a lil time investment, new Myers performs fine so I think his statistics will say otherwise from "99% feedback."
People who would not be satisfied with current Myers, they are very picky and dismissive. Its downright outrageous BHVR delivers an excellent new power which performs excellent, people I have talked to about this wont even try him more than once.I am disgusted by how our developer is treated by this Community, frankly.
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No thanks, I like the Slaughtering Strike.
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Well I don't like playing overpowered Killers, so I've been spending my time on the new Myers.
BHVR will need to dish up some changes before I touch her again cause man is she easy and gets kills effortlessly. -
BHVR is hiring a senior hair artists specifically for Dead by Daylight.
I hope BHVR is gearing up for… The Hair Upgrade Patch. -
No sir, you cant have BaseKit PainRes that is absolutely going to destroy Generator Progress.
Its a much much much easier and simpler idea to just hit Tunnelers with a Ton of Bricks.
Make the effect stack too for consistent tunnelers, double the bricks, triple the bricks. INFINITE BRICKS! -
New Myers does not need that in my opinion, I am performing absolutely fine and fair with him.
Slaughtering Strike is absolutely still useful.Myers would only need buffs if he is consistently falling off at different MMR ranges.
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Slaughtering Strike just takes some time to get used to, its absolutely not weak at all to anyone who is willing to invest some time into learning it.I see so many Myers right now as Survivor failing to use Slaughtering Strike and mostly they just dont use it at all. But they should its really strong, have a little faith, be creative, Stab Meg Thomas in the face.
The Slowdown when triggering Evil Within Mode is to give Survivors fair distance, Why? because we are playing a fair videogame. You guys are trying to T3 Bomb people still and no BHVR changed that cause it was bloody unfair to go against.
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Idd like for her to have a spammable attack, but she needs to hit more blood splatters than 1.
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Thats all good ideas.
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Yes! I want it so bad! This one gets me!
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Its a cool take on the myth, I am happy BHVR took the time to swing over to Southeast Asia.
A strong chase power unlocked by infecting survivors is a nice idea,
And I agree with @SoGo, Could not say it better myself. It is just nice plain and simple.
BHVR just need to pipe her down a bit and we got a great addition, instead of a oppressive addition. -
@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008111#Comment_4008111
To be fair...
The game came out in 2016.
Trapper got one additional trap basekit in 2021 (update 5.3.0) and got a minor Haste for 5 seconds after setting a trap in 2023 (update 7.3.0).
Those changes are...very minor, to say the least, and it took around 7 years, nearly half the game's current lifespan, to happen.
Trapper isn't exactly known for being strong either.
I think its inaccurate to describe those changes as, "took 7 years" more likely at some point they were gonna do something for Trapper. I know what you mean, but its just the wrong way to describe these situations and can see why because people want their Killer to have all they need and a bit more for the pain with interest.
But you cant do Game Design like that and BHVR is silent on Trapper for now.BHVR would have to tell us otherwise, maybe they have some things they need to fix first before they take a look at him.
Perhaps Trapper is very much tied to tunneling/ camping and BHVR want those problems chopped first.
I have a feeling Trapper will take a hit to the Kidney when Anti-tunneling rolls in. We will see.We know what BHVR has planned, but we never know what BHVR is thinking about all the other things not planned.
Maybe something is happening, maybe nothing is happening. But BHVR's schedule looks packed.Also Skull merchant rework and Trickster. And Twins, god. Then maybe Trapper.
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@DBD78 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008086#Comment_4008086
People have said this about Myers, Trapper etc forever. When buffs comes other changes in the game like maps etc make it so there is no difference they are still the weakest killers. They very seldom dare to make big buffs to killers that needs it.
That all depends on how urgent it is, if the Killer is very underperforming.
The easier or urgent something is the faster BHVR will respond to it. -
If he is weak they will buff him sooner or later.
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You beat the Krasue by hiding and waiting for BHVR to get a patch out.
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If you games go too fast for you, perhaps your MMR is too high. But no, like having a glass of water is nice hiding, tunneling and camping is nice for a lil while but when everyone starts doing it the game progress halts and it becomes boring.
That or big maps favors Killers with mobility.
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@TaMeiRen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007696#Comment_4007696
Oh no of course! I get what you’re saying. I also misunderstood what you meant by Built to Last working with killer items because I was only thinking of Wesker’s spray / the rave head bopper.
If there are ever two item slots , BTL should only work with one item at a time instead of both. Or if you choose to refill both, then the perk deactivates for the rest of the match.
I see the issue, I have edited my original reply.. Lets hope BHVR feels Ambitious enough to tackle this issue soon.
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@TaMeiRen said:
Hmm, I don’t think Built to Last should work with killer items. But yes absolutely, two item slots for items - one for killer item and one for survivor item.
Side note- Resilience should increase the speed of opening killer chests, taking tapes, waking up with alarm clocks, etc.I mean it would work if there are a Survivor perk that gave two Survivor Item slots.
Im just spit balling ideas to deepen the game and give more Perk options. -
YES!!! its suuuuuper obnoxious that holding an Killer Item makes you unable to use your Survivor Item.
[Survivors should have 1 slot for an Survivor Item and 1 for Killer Item. And an assigned button that swaps between them.]
Hecky! lets go further…
[Introduce a Survivor Perk for the General Perk Pool that allows Survivors should have 2 slots for an Survivor Items.]Absolute madness for Survivor Item Synergy Builds, Imagine Built to Last restoring two Survivor items. THE CHAOS.
Downsides:
- Killers will see this as a nerf, because their item blocked Survivor items in the past.
- Some Killers relies on special strategies and choices, where they see a Survivor with a Killer item in hand.
- Survivors would easily be able to "load up" on a Killer item for when they need it.
Killers who have Items, would need to be buffed once we know the significance of the damage.
I am all for making Gameplay concessions for the Survivor-side for Killer buffs down the line if it means the game experience is better for both sides. Quality of Life is extraordinarily important.