IndigoNinja
IndigoNinja
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@UndeddJester said:
This is a little complicated, because the add-on feeds directly into Unknowns resource management and grants him effectively "free" hallucination progress passively... however it is off of losing generators, so can only happen so many times... striking the right balance is hard.
For anyone who is one of the uninitiated and wanting the full info on Unknown Hallucinations without looking it up.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZHVF9VIR6VAI/screenshot-20251004-090006-firefox.jpg
Normal hallucinations:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AUVT0OPHVXCJ/screenshot-20251004-085706-firefox.jpg
Vanishing Box:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/E5OJ763ZEDU7/screenshot-20251004-085802-firefox.jpg
8.3.0 Vanishing Box:
Hallucination Spawning time: 81 charges
- 0 Weakened Survivors: +1 c/s or 81 seconds.
- 1 Weakened Survivor: +1.25 c/s or 67.5 seconds.
- 2 Weakened Survivors: +1.75 c/s or ~46.3 seconds.
- 3 Weakened Survivors: +2.375 c/s or ~34.1 seconds.
- 4 Weakened Survivors: +3.5 c/s or ~23.1 seconds.
Homework for suggestions:
To work out any new values for this add-on:
Number of Charges: 45c × (1 + decimal_val). E.g:
- 80% = 45 × (1 + 0.8) = 81 charges
- 120% = 45 × (1 + 1.2) = 99 charges
Time of Hallucination: Charges ÷ Charges per Second. E.g:
- 1 Weakened Survivor normally = 45c ÷ 1.25c/s = 36s
- 3 Weakened Survivor on 8.3.0 VB = 81c ÷ 2.375c/s = 34.1s
Since this add-on has this hallucination side effect, that directly feeds into itself, trying to find a fair and balanced point is tricky. It depends entirely on the skill and play style of the Unknown as to how good it is... largely this would be a "feeling it out issue" over many players of different skill levels.
Purely subjectively, 100% seems a nice figure… it makes all the number easier, as you literally just double the base times, so you don't have to do all the crapola above 😅
I'm not going to lie, I genuinely messed up with calculating the numbers for how much of a detriment Vanishing Box is now. Rather than the passive charges/second being reduced, the reality is that the amount of charges needed to reach the spawn threshold was increased by a stupid amount.
Also thank you for adding the visuals and commenting this to make it easier for people to understand the math of the situation, because it certainly helped me to realize the mistake that was made, lol. -
@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010506#Comment_4010506
Yeah, but can you imagine the length of the patchnotes if the Devs should justify every lil change?
They dont want to write like 10 000 words for that."To encourage addon variety and reduce the frequency of its pick rate, this addon has been nerfed."
Seven-teen. That's 17 words. -
@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010405#Comment_4010405
If an addon is over-performing, BHVR can see this via statistics, then it should be nerfed right?
Sure the people who abuse it, might be out of your MMR range, but this game has a wide range of players.That's not the point. The point of this is that there's no investigation as to WHY an addon has a high usage rate.
Take Ghostface and Philly for example. It was found out that Philly was used so much because not only was it a Common/Brown addon, but it made it so that it was so much faster to mark survivors before someone revealed him out of Stealth. This addon was made partially basekit and its value was appropriately adjusted.
With Unknown and Vanishing Box, the devs are seemingly not investigating WHY Vanishing Box supposedly had a high pick rate. Up until the first nerf of Vanishing Box, I'd seen the addon fairly frequently in my survivor games. Since the original nerf I have only seen this addon TWICE. TWICE.And even now, I haven't seen this addon since then. I haven't even used this addon since Map offerings were nerfed because I only ever used Vanishing Box to snipe people from the top of Eyrie's main building for clips.
Are people getting more value out of this addon than I am? Probably! But I'd also like to see what the pick rate of addons are as well as actual dev notes as to why specific addons are being flat out being destroyed from orbit.It's genuinely getting tiring, and another killer that received a similar treatment was Nemesis with Marvin's Blood. And there's other killer that have experienced similar treatment in the past as well, however at this time I don't know all the killers that have experienced this kind of treatment with addons.
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@KeefCheif TLDR I'm tired of random addons getting nerfed to nothing and no QOL adjustments being made to the Killer.
But Don't Worry We Can Look Up Now! -
@Paternalpark said:
I didn't read all that but his zombies have gotten alot smarter.
You realize they just added the antidote animation for survivor which is awesome but shows priorities.
Maybe next year?
You will read this because everything in this is important.
Also, if you've dedicated any amount of time to this killer in a least several matches, you'll see how insanely frustrating these zombies are.
The vaccination animation was given to this killer over two years after his release.
You may as well say never if you're saying next year. Again this killer has gotten paltry buffs, insulting addon adjustments, and infuriating nerfs as well. I am no longer waiting for change, but demanding it.
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@Shroompy said:
Nemesis is a tricky one considering you can't really add much to his power without making him EXTREMELY unfun to go against. There's a reason why his power essentially takes 3 hits and that's because he has one of the best 1v1's in the game.
Zombies are cool and all, but 90% of the time they don't do anything which is frustrating for the Nemesis player, 9% of the time a zombie just refuses to leave a gen and its just frustrating to deal with, and the last 1% they actually get a hit/happen to be nearby to zone a Survivor.
Adding some of his add ons to his basekit doesn't necessarily fix his issues. Would it be nice? yes, but he's still gonna perform very similarly if not the complete same.
Making him 4.12m/s in tier 3, or hell even 4m/s in tier 1 or 2 would have the same problem as above, would help, but not enough to make much of an impact.
All that being said I don't think his basekit needs much attention, his add ons how ever do need a bit of a looksie.
Even if Nemesis is one of the best 1v1's in the game, there's such an insanely poor macro design for the killer, even with all my experiences with him. Did you know that in a perfect game, where this killer doesn't tunnel off the rip, isn't running Broken Recovery Coin, allows for all survivors to be healed off the hook once, and Vaccinate each time once, he has to chew through 32 healthstates? (4 survs x 3 hits x 2 chases fully healthy, adding 8 healthstates after all vaccines are gone.) Not assuming that these survivors brought medkits, healing perks, and have extraordinarily altruistic teammates, taking hits and healing each other and making sure that the game is "fair."
If anything he needs more tweaks/adjustments that make the power feel even a little better to use. More than anything else he needs some addons basekit, because a lot of the addons that he has currently are a joke and even worse in comparison to say, Pyramid Head's addons. (Did you know that he has 3 range addons?)
I wish the zombies were better. There's so much fluff between when I actually get zombie value in matches, and more often than not, this usually happens on smaller, indoor maps. Which is highly unfortunate because these zombies simply suck on larger, often outdoor maps. It just feels like there's so much more downtime that the zombies have that I simply can't ordinarily afford if I'm actively participating in the game.
Like I mentioned earlier, the basekit is "fine," but more could be desired, outside of a radical rework. At this point for basekit I just wish that I could have some more QoL adjustments, like a slightly better movement speed when holding power, slightly better duration on his Hindered effect, and some other adjustments.
(Also hey man how's it going.)