Emeal
Emeal
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019080#Comment_4019080
Well the avg according to their data was 42% across all mmrs, I think it'll drop to maybe around 30% if these changes stick around. Tunneling is still very necessary with nowadays gen speeds, it just shouldn't be possible and so easy early in a match.
and what if it does not drop that much? What then?
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019091#Comment_4019091
ok so if i fail at killer because im getting looped and dont want to use the counters available to me so i cant get a single hit…we should get better changes through…get rid of looping?
The problem with your argument is 40% of Killers are not failing at Killing, like how 40% of Survivors fail to deal with tunneling correctly.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019068#Comment_4019068
your agency has nothing to do with it, the fact remains there are counters to tunneling if people choose to use them and choose to use their heads a bit more, if you dont use them because you dont want to or because your agency prevents you thats on you. i think its time to stop complaining about it, accept tunneling will always be a part of the game just like looping is. if i dont like being looped i should either learn to counter it or pick a new game…. same applies to tunneling.
I think rather idd try to get some better changes through and then maybe YOU can pick up a new game instead.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
Actually, it has quite a huge impact. Tunneling is still hard to do, but succeeding no longer punishes the killer. So if you're in a situation where forcing someone out with one or two gens left is necessary, you can still do that shortly after losing them and finding them again. Though, killers still get some even hooking bonuses, so it's still decentivised.
So what will the tunneling % be at next year with those changes????
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@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019050#Comment_4019050
survivors have ways to deal with tunneling the killer cannot catch up when your 3 gens down with 1 hook without tunneling and even then your likely to get a single kill aka a loss
If Survivors have ways to deal with tunneling, why is tunneling at 40% clearly they dont have enough ways to deal with tunneling.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019018#Comment_4019018
change play style… play more stealthy, less altruistic, stop unhooking in front of killers face making tunneling easier, do gens, loop better so its less appealing to be tunneled, use perks…there are many ways to counter tunneling.
What about my agency? Am I supposed to lick the Killer's toes too?
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@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019022#Comment_4019022
whats wrong with actually having agency and being able to do stuff?
where have I said you should not have agency? What about the Survivor who is being tunneled's agency?
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@XDgamer018 said:
so what should i do after 3 gens popped in my first chase bc i got pallet city (every map nowadays) as pig? should i just forfeit or lick their toes or some #########?
Whats wrong with losing a match?
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@runningguy said:
tunneling will always remain like it or not. is it time to finally start actually countering it instead of complaining about it?
What is your constructive suggesting to fix this?
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Diabolical, but the Hatch is not a Mechanic that should be tampered with. its made to end the game, not this.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018397#Comment_4018397
Are we playing PvP assym horror, genuinely believing you can satisfy both drastic sentiments fully…?
Wouldn't try to continue then
We can certainly do better than the current status quo, Im not claiming this game will be perfect.
But in my opinion the game has become a lot better before and BHVR did that. -
@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018370#Comment_4018370
I still believe the reason BHVR is trying to fix tunneling is because the vast majority dont want it.
So they also create easier killers, adding hook stages, and doing controversial changes
Are u sure they trying, or not trying to indulge two opposite sentiments in this game and that’s the reason why this game have issues?
If that is your position, then you should try to argue that instead of arguing we should not care about other people's enjoyment.
Im not a mindreader, if you argue against other people's enjoyment Im gonna conclude you believe we should not.
I argued it. That you can’t simply care about everyone, and indulging one player desire, you harming other side. You can say ten times ‘I’m not asking for handicapping’, yet your suggestion is exactly that. And you aren’t arguing your position as well. Because you contradict yourself about caring people enjoyment, when what you asking for wasn’t accepted by community considering PTB feedback. You care about enjoyment of specific people only, and not everyone, yet still try to present it otherwise.
It is a fact that people have quit the game over tunneling, so considering that is more considerate than not considering them.
Do you have actual stats? All of my friends quit for other reasons. Yet I don’t claim the people massively quitting over same as you. DCing happen even when killer not tunneling and for many other reasons.Online this year on it’s highest point, It's a sham that people are leaving en masse. Not you, not BHVR, didn’t provide stats for supporting your position. You also don’t have researchs that suddenly removing highly popular people game style won’t provoke opposite effect of what you imagining in terms of “everybody joy”
My point isn’t that you shouldn’t care about specific position. Is that you can’t argue its need when the only you have is “joy”, and it makes it looks weak and tribalistic. So I’m asking provide something else beside blatant enjoyment. Otherwise this is a dialogue of preferences over actual integrityAre u sure they trying, or not trying to indulge two opposite sentiments in this game and that’s the reason why this game have issues?
If I didn't believe BHVR could handle this game and Improve the game, then I would have left it a long time ago.
Otherwise this conversation is running in circles now, I already said I don't want Killers handicapped. And you believe I am conspiring against competitive players. There is no way I can disprove that. There is also no contradiction in arguing for people's enjoyment, because it isn't enjoyment to take joy in someone's unenjoyment that would be schadenfreude.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018355#Comment_4018355
Then why you use argument about everybody joy, when asking a change specifically for one group of players that skew other? And creating polls with highly focus on only these people?
Firstly I just answered on your post, u started to put comp tag and “idk how to share it”, using everything to bellitle different view. As much as in poll, as much as on your arguements, you focusing on one side only, so I still don’t understand why you trying to pull everyone joy arguemt here and present your opinion as highly considerated one.
It’s fine considering addressing position of tunneling and how it looks in the game, me myself wanting some changes around it, but asking completely handiccaping and preventing other people behaviour using “enjoyment” arguement doesn’t looks like well builded discussion, yet you try to present it like this. They aren’t going against game format playing like this.
Try to revert it to yourself. You playing casually - yet your casual level of play can throw the match for your teammates who tried to win. Would you find it ridiculous if they would start asking your way of play being highly punished and eliminated? Just because you make game for others unenjoyable? I had many matches like this, yet it seems I’m not running to forum demanding changing how people play the game.
Maybe we should stop focusing on way of play and consider actual mechanics, because as soon as we touch this topic, it always will be “us” > “them”. And trying to defend some “majority” always push discussion to fighting for imaginative numbers and myths trying to present personal bias as best oneThe same currently happening with pallet density changes. People prioritise what they feel over everything and biting each other unable to find a compromise
Then why you use argument about everybody joy,
Cause you argued that we should not care about other people's enjoyment of the game. Remember that?
Why player should prioritize your fun? What you did for this? Did you pay him so he has to play as same way as you? Are you friends? Are u playing in one team? Why in PvP opponent should provide fun, especially if they use meta and you aren't? You appeal to fairness — every player has the same tools and freedom in this game. You can handicapp yourself, don’t expect others to do so just because and don’t expect game doing this.
And creating polls with highly focus on only these people?
I already answered this, there is no point in asking people who dont quit over tunneling, how much tunneling makes them quit.
I still don’t understand why you trying to pull everyone joy arguemt here and present your opinion as highly considerated one.
It is a fact that people have quit the game over tunneling, so considering that is more considerate than not considering them.
It’s fine considering addressing position of tunneling and how it looks in the game, me myself wanting some changes around it, but asking completely handiccaping and preventing other people behaviour using “enjoyment” arguement doesn’t looks like well builded discussion, yet you try to present it like this.
If that is your position, then you should try to argue that instead of arguing we should not care about other people's enjoyment.
Im not a mindreader, if you argue against other people's enjoyment Im gonna conclude you believe we should not.Im also against handiccaping Killers.
Maybe we should stop focusing on way of play and consider actual mechanics, because as soon as we touch this topic, it always will be “us” > “them”. And trying to defend some “majority” always push discussion to fighting for imaginative numbers and myths trying to present personal bias as best one.
I still believe the reason BHVR is trying to fix tunneling is because the vast majority dont want it.
But yes, having a productive conversation about what mechanics should be would be better. But if we disagree on tunneling being an issue, how constructive can it really be? -
@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018350#Comment_4018350
I mean, considering you created poll with one option for one side, and around 6 for other bias, these results are already pretty impressive :/
The poll is about the players who stop playing over tunneling, what level tunneling affects that.
This isnt a poll about if tunneling is bad or good, If you think tunneling is good and cool game mechanic I can understand why you feel left out of this poll, but it simply does not apply to you. Thats why I created the no option to give an option for those players. -
@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018335#Comment_4018335
As you see in your own questionarrie where u created the one option for one side there are not few people who share same mindset as me. You are not in that the overwhelming majority in which you are trying to put yourself
Don’t feel whats actually wrong with my opinion here. I’m not asking fixing people behaviour to make game more enjoyable for me. If the issue how people play the game, I’m addressing myself or don’t play the game. You doing opposite stuff here, and the only excuse you still have here is some enjoyment
On the contrary the majority of votes have a problem with tunneling, but this is just a small sample.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018270#Comment_4018270
So you yourself admit that the issue is your inability to deal with it…
Sounds reasonable and well argued, indeed. I already told you about “everybodies fun”. You are talking about your fun only, because can’t deal with person behaviour in game. Tunneling isn’t mechanic to be changed, it’s how people play it, and it doesn’t contradict logic of the game
Its not like your argument is good either, not caring about other people's enjoyment of the game isnt healthy long term for the game. Rather we should consider that and make changes to fix those pain points. Im sure BHVR would agree.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018009#Comment_4018009
is kinda of a mute question in a thread about if people quit after tunneling, because it makes others want to play anymore.
It implies you dont care at all about how other players feel during games, ofc this is natural with online videogames cause there is no social contract
Why player should prioritize your fun? What you did for this? Did you pay him so he has to play as same way as you? Are you friends? Are u playing in one team? Why in PvP opponent should provide fun, especially if they use meta and you aren't? You appeal to fairness — every player has the same tools and freedom in this game. You can handicapp yourself, don’t expect others to do so just because and don’t expect game doing this.
Indeed, why should casual players be forced out because competitive players ruin it?
They “ruin” it for you, because you can’t cope with their presence and win, so expect game dealing with it instead of you. Not because they breaking this game. You literally calling forced out just the way that people play differs. They don’t ask of changing core format and addressing people behaviour like you do.
This is just irrational expecting game doing a favor towards a player who pay less attention and play less amount of time, when it skews top cap. Literally, again — they playing game in the most effective play possible. You don't. It's logical you would have less fun experience because you’re more likely gonna lose.
Because facing serious or sweaty players isnt what idd call good fun and fair experience
Of course, it’s not fun, because you losing quickly. But not fair? Do they playing more serious? Yes. Do they play with meta? Yes. Do they play more? Yes. What do you expect, people making a show for you and matching your vibe and then doing everything you wish? Are they bots or sth? Fairness for you is other players matching your expectations?
Maybe, if you can think of a way you can fix tunneling by making changes to mmr, then you should tell that to BHVR not me.
I’m telling. And maybe, if your issue is game being unfun because of presence of players who treat game differently, you should ask yourself and not BHVR. Because asking for removing tunneling, you are hinting on “addressing” only killer players sweats. Which imply heavy bias and prejudice. Nothing about a game here, you just don't like specific type of players and asking devs to help to cope with emotions.
Why player should prioritize your fun? What you did for this? Did you pay him so he has to play as same way as you? Are you friends? Are u playing in one team? Why in PvP opponent should provide fun, especially if they use meta and you aren't? You appeal to fairness — every player has the same tools and freedom in this game. You can handicapp yourself, don’t expect others to do so just because and don’t expect game doing this.
Because I'm interested in a Dead by Daylight where everybody has fun and I think BHVR is too.
I think its valid that everybody gets to have some fun.They “ruin” it for you, because you can’t cope with their presence and win, so expect game dealing with it instead of you.
I have repeated before, I have tried many times all the advice I can find on here, reddit and youtube how to deal with tunnelers.
And I think BHVR agrees things could be changed around to make others happy.I’m telling. And maybe, if your issue is game being unfun because of presence of players who treat game differently, you should ask yourself and not BHVR. Because asking for removing tunneling, you are hinting on “addressing” only killer players sweats. Which imply heavy bias and prejudice. Nothing about a game here, you just don't like specific type of players and asking devs to help to cope with emotions.
No, its specifically tunneling that ruins it for most my survivors games. Dont have problems with someone playing in ways I can or could have done something about. So ofc I would be against tunneling, I have no issue with the players.
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@Callahan9116 said:
This poll could have been designed better, a lot of implicit bias
What is the bias in asking people who quit over tunneling how much is required? Honestly.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017980#Comment_4017980
Read post again, if you don't get it
You seem to have three questions.
- Why should competitive players be restricted or criticized just because casual players choose not to play as intensely?
- If you’re playing casually and not aiming to win, why does facing serious players upset you?
- Isn’t the real issue the matchmaking system, not the way others choose to play?
First,
is kinda of a mute question in a thread about if people quit after tunneling, because it makes others want to play anymore.
It implies you dont care at all about how other players feel during games, ofc this is natural with online videogames cause there is no social contract. But any other gaming scenario idd say you should have interest in if other players at your table have fun.Indeed, why should casual players be forced out because competitive players ruin it?
Either way I think BHVR understands something needs to be done about it and Im glad.
Second,
Because facing serious or sweaty players isnt what idd call good fun and fair experience. I have tried many times to do something about it, but try as I might I don't recall the last time I was able to foil a tunneler. Why would I enjoy that? I dont.Third.
Maybe, if you can think of a way you can fix tunneling by making changes to mmr, then you should tell that to BHVR not me. -
@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017853#Comment_4017853
Can you just directly answer on questions instead of just blatantly demanding some turn? You didn't answer on my post
What was your questions specifically?
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017528#Comment_4017528
So, if other people play in other way but it less intense, other should follow them and system should indulge only them? What they did in the game for it? It’s kinda logical that casual player wouldn’t be able to compete with person who living in this game or playing for win why you aren’t. If you are casual player, answer the question — why then presence of someone more aggressive player bother you from the start and spoils your mood, when you yourself aren’t chasing effective play, therefore don’t expecting win? Do you really expect people with meta and strict goal wouldn’t overthrow you and push you to the lobby within minutes instead of giving you endless second chances? What’s the point of complaints? Why other people should be restricted by playstyle if you don’t use max potential of the gameplay and why it should affect your mood? Seriously, I am myself playing casual matches in dbd as well. Memeing around, playing with friend, running nonetheless builds and trying to ridiculous stuff. And I don’t expect other side playing the same. If they aren’t matching my vibe, then it is, I’m not throwing a tantrum or trying to complain how they spoiled everything, because they wasn’t invited to my party from the start.
The only issue of not casual players existing in this game is the bad matchmaking. Nothing about the view of the game. Nothing about their way of playing, so maybe it’s worthy to stop calling a day around it and reminding hundreds of times that you are a majority. It doesn’t change the fact that you reinforce your view on the game doing nothing for this
I would say, the game has indulged tunnelers and tunnel enjoyers for nine years, and shredded its newcomers.
When is it others turn?@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017481#Comment_4017481
thats my point, countering tunneling has to be relatively easy and approachable if someone like me can do it in soloq with no perks. its mass laziness of people just not wanting to learn the counter so they complain hoping its removed so they dont have to learn to counter it. people say they like to loop the killer, they like chases, they like interaction. tunneling provides all of this, yet people dont like it because they fail to counter it. what puzzles me is how are they failing to counter it? why are they not changing playstyle to counter it? "because i dont want to" isnt a valid reason. its these people that will end up killing the game if bhvr went along with these demands. removing a broken element which cant be countered yes i understand but removing what little tactical element the game wont go well.
countering tunneling has to be relatively easy and approachable
That's another assumption, you already admitted to it not working every time. So we are threading the same argument again.
its these people that will end up killing the game if bhvr went along with these demands. removing a broken element which cant be countered yes i understand but removing what little tactical element the game wont go well.
You killing the game for you, not them. While that aspect has already killed the game for others.
I think its a bold thing to say in the light of how many have quit.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017514#Comment_4017514
I don’t understand why u see a person who just prefer challenges in a game as highly competitive. I don’t spend ton of hours practicing one move and don’t play e sport.
I don’t like routinely playing the same game without good progression, not my style. For casual part of my mindset I’m playing single player and party games
Idk if you are highly competitive or not, but your mindset is what Idd call competitive. My apologies if you see it different, I didn't mean to say you are something you don't think you are. I'm just describing what I see.
But other people certainly play this game casually, myself included.
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@tes said:
Since me or my teammates are getting tunneled a lot, don’t really understand why it should force me to stop playing the game. It’s like if I leave the match as killer seeing 4 toolboxes and 12k hours in profile. Show just started
I leave when understand my shape is bad and I’m playing like potato, to focus on sth else. Or when this game upset me by mechanics
I don't understand why you see a Videogame like a competition.
But if that works for you fine. I just don't think everyone else sees it that way, nor is that the only way for BHVR to see it.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017356#Comment_4017356
i did answer your question "i used to find loops crazy difficult to beat and boring". the answer is yes i would find it boring and i did. but as we all know, looping is part of the game so im guessing we need to learn to deal with looping regardless of how boring someone might find it. same applies to tunneling.
No, it all depends on how BHVR wants to evolve the game. If the vast majority hated looping, then they would have evolved the game away from looping and perhaps into something else. So it all comes down to how easy and approachable anything is.
And like you already answered, if tunneling almost always succeeded for the Killer, you would find it boring.
Is it really that puzzling now??? -
@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017309#Comment_4017309
i used to find loops crazy difficult to beat and boring, all my attempts to counter these loops failed…. dont hear any calls to remove loops from the game though or rage DCing because people fail at countering a looper. why? because people learn and adapt, they improve, they counter, they play the game. which is exactly what i did and exactly what others can do regarding tunneling.
Would be cool if you answered my question instead of deflecting, I repeat it for you.
If your attempts at countering it were foiled every time you try it. Would you find that boring or fun?
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017261#Comment_4017261
it doesnt need to be countered consistently or safely, if that was the case it would be a very boring game. its unrealistic to expect any tactic to be 100% counterable or un-counterable. if some people cant counter it then they need to change playstyle. im not a comp player or streamer, im just an average person that plays the game. i dont excel at looping, i play soloq survivor and even i can counter tunneling with god awful team mates and i dont run any anti tunnel perks. its about play style more than anything. do i counter it all the time? no, but i do it enough that it doesnt give me any frustrations or issues.
cant imagine if killers were complaining about looping saying "i know it can be countered by changing playstyle but im going to do things my way and complain when it doesnt work".
Imagine then if you will, if your attempts at countering it were foiled every time you try it. Would you find that boring or fun?
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I have never seen it, what are you guys doing to trigger it?
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017203#Comment_4017203
i have always said im just an average player that plays survivor and killer. which is why it puzzles me how so many people have an issue with something that can be countered
You are making extraordinary assumptions here. The argument confuses possibility with accessibility, making the assumption that because a counter exists, it’s equally viable for all players. Example: "The average driver also CAN go above the speed limit and drive fine, so it puzzles me how some drivers have an issue that can be countered."
Just because something can be done or countered by some people doesn’t mean everyone can do it consistently or safely.
Which you should know, because I doubt every game you ever played, the Survivors successfully prevented tunneling.
So you you should it could go wrong and then you times that with how bad some players are and it should be clear how repeated instances of this would rather make people quit than not.You may be confusing yourself by thinking you are an average player, only BHVR could know that fact of your MMR.
Its common to think that, I agree, but without proof and evidence its a needlessly unknowable in this conversation.Something to think about isn't it, Even if it isnt a problem for you.
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But DCs would affect my stats in a non accurate way, so why should they track it?
Been with this game for 8 years and I know all games with a DC goes nuts. -
What are you doing BHVR?
Obviously it is to change the game for the better, if the strongest Killers are benefitting too much from this they can be nerfed.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015954#Comment_4015954
They shouldn't come at all. How are survivors punished for rushing gens? Unhooking in killer face? Etc. Why survivors can rush their objective with no punishment but killers can't? Killers have to bring multiple slowdown perks to have a chance to win, if survivors don't want to be tunneled or slugged there are plenty of perks to chose from.
You should not deflect form solving the problems that exist just because additional problems also exist.
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Those slugging and tunneling changes cant come soon enough. Its the only thing I hope about right now.
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Ghoul can jump to your location across the map in 5 seconds, so it baffles me that he needs to inflict hindred to Survivors after vaulting.
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I rather have enough pallets so new people dont get killed instantly and then each killer have a special effect that makes pallets break that requires timing and game skill.
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Pop will always be better than Pain Res, because it gets the killer to a gen and away from a the hook.
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I think BHVR would be more than happy to do this, its just their list of stuff they need to do is so massive rn.
We got Core Gameplay Upgrades, a long list of Bug fixes and probably a whole list of Perk changes too.
Exciting times really. -
Is this what:
did not put any effort at all
It sounds plain
awkward delivery
Sounds like to you guys?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRqCTqWwi1kShe sounds perfectly normal to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXH7vytxGusscreams and grunts of pain sound... ugly
Like are screams and grunts of pain supposed to sound pleasant to you?????
I think that is just basically what she sounds like, when she isn't just sassying her voice up.
The scenario is supposed to be tense so she sounds super serious, so no glamour.Like where are you guy's expectations at, is the horror/action experience supposed sound like honey and wine to you?
I don't even think the writing is bad, like people say dumb things all the time. I'm not mad she don't sound like a Scholar. -
This patch certainly is luxury for those who know how to gain value out of pallets, but its also a necessary evil for lower mmr as many survivors cant find a pallet in time. Which is good means the game is much more playable.
Likely in time I think BHVR will find that Pallet count needs to be controlled by MMR. to even it out.
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@MadDragon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013605#Comment_4013605
You're just ignoring the verrry long history of changes that needed to be reverted because they were either completely unneeded or just insane. You just keep saying "if BHVR does x than x is good." I love DBD and I don't think BHVR is actually that bad or anything, but they do make mistakes. A lot.
idk how you intend to prove they were unneeded, but the other one is uncalled for. Dont call BHVR that please.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013591#Comment_4013591
So if BHVR did something - someone position is right?
So if Krasue exist and was buffed, someone’s opinion that killer design should look like this is right? Hmm… I see where they put their focus and energy on
Sounds… interesting. Maybe something more decent as argument would be better, nuh?
No, its more if BHVR does something they have a reason to do it. And if a person has the opinion that a thing that BHVR is changing is bad, then they have a point that is IS bad. Because even the developer is doing something about it.
Simple as: If BHVR thinks something need changing, it probably does.
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Good point, but we are not testing for that. Only if tunneling is and how much is enough to make you quit playing Survivor.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Houndmaster Layer 2 goes absolutely nuclear. The Violins on that are so dramatic and fitting for her as a character.
Houndmaster layer 2 is SOO GOOD. a total favorite of mine too.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013585#Comment_4013585
So yours is the better one while the only argument behind it is some emotional sentiment?
No mine is better because BHVR already made it.
So yeah, 100% BHVR is already convinced that is where they need to focus their energy. -
@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013518#Comment_4013518
Yes, that IS the grown up solution. Deal with it.
What’s making your desires a grown up decision?
If you have a better solution, then you better give it out soon
I told about this many times before on this forum and even post above. If you can’t read whole text and analyze it fully, I don't see any point in playing silly games here repeating stuff that will be missed anyway.
My position you can’t and shouldn't remove tunnel completely. My position it’s time for BHVR to accept people want to tunnel or have to tunnel, and finally think through a full-fledged game mechanics around this to make it less random and more fair. Not crutches, not punishments, not incentives. A whole game system that covers the simple fact people doing this stuff in this game. Like simply stop fighting with damn logic here and accept that some stuff like this or sfw exist. They aren't supposed to be fun for other side. As everything that helps you to win for your opponent aren't supposed to give them fun time.
My position you can’t and shouldn't remove tunnel completely. My position it’s time for BHVR to accept people want to tunnel or have to tunnel, and finally think through a full-fledged game mechanics around this to make it less random and more fair. Not crutches, not punishments, not incentives.
Sure, now you submitted that. lets hope it convinces BHVR, that it is the best solution.
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Nah, my team-mates can find pallets now for the first time in forever.
Maybe pallet density should be dependent on MMR though. Adjust it to MMR and/ or Killers, seems like good solution.
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I agree that Gen Pop' ing should be dealt with as well, but it will have to wait its turn.
We cant solve everything in a single patch, that is impossible.I suggest we see how the balance lands post Anti-tunneling and then we can deal with it.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013514#Comment_4013514
i just hope people take notice of it lol. even if there are counters, just mass complain…. if killers end up doing it later about something then survivors can look back on this moment.
i really dont think tunneling is being removed or can be removed, its here to stay whether we like it or not. And IF it gets removed….following this precedent means killers can just complain and get it back lol. cant win either way
The vast majority of Killers are already doing that.
@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013514#Comment_4013514
Duh, yes, that sounds great. No more games where the Killer tunnels one person out. SIGN ME UP.
So your statement is - “remove something completely no matter how it will affect the game and other players, just because I can’t emotionally overcome frustration of losing too quickly.”
Sound as fair, grown up and wise position. No point to argue with it, because it's emotions. I can’t argue with people over things they want/don’t want, because it's as meaningless and unnecessary as beating the air. You have right for this position, that's all. But you don't have a right to claim at as unanimously truthfull one
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013512#Comment_4013512
anti-tunnel is a transfer of responsibility.
It’s what this person want, apparently
BHVR has been testing that PTB so long, if they are happy with it then its not unplayable for me.
If there is a major problem, then that problem can be addressed later in that version of the game.Yes, that IS the grown up solution. Deal with it.
If you have a better solution, then you better give it out soon, because my money is on this that PTB coming back and hopefully will we have a mass pro-tunneler exodus, but that dont bother me cause Im a Killer main myself. Faster queue time for me, byebye. Why would I morn the loss of tunnelers????
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013499#Comment_4013499
interesting precedent to set… can counter it, wont counter it, can change playstyle, wont change playstyle so lets do something to stop it happening. so lets just all refuse to counter looping so then loops get removed.
tunneling is a tactic and always has been just like looping has. when the game first came out not many looped because we were all new and didnt really know the game was best played. then people found out about looping and back when there was god loops people learnt to go in a circle instead of running from 1 end of the map to the other. these days everyone has adapted and learnt looping can be highly efficient. tunneling has always been part of the game, if its been made worse is because of the high speed killers they release recently but thats not tunneling thats the issue thats the killers.
im not an amazing survivor im pretty average, im soloq too… i counter it by changing my playstyle, simple. others need to do the same and they will find its a non issue and probably find it more fun like i find it.
If you think its interesting I guess, if the vast vast majority of players REFUSED to participate in looping then that part of the game could very likely have been removed from the game. To me that's just Ironclad reality, that or the game would have failed.
However that isnt the reality we are in, we are in the:
the vast majority of players refuse to participate in Tunneling so its getting removed - realityPersonally yeah, I was on your side, you can find posts about me making suggestions to make it easier for Survivors to understand when tunneling happens and fight back on it. But I dont think that is the path that you can easily squeeze new players through and BHVR has not given any suggestion in that way so im siding with BHVR on that one.
@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013499#Comment_4013499
BHVR's response in the past was to do nothing about it.
So… “nothing” is base kit BT, no hook grabs, anti face camp, additional +10 sec to hook times, +10 altruistic perks for helping teammates when they are getting tunneled?
If people massively failed to use this tools and BHVR put some S tiers as cherry on top it doesn’t cancel that they always was working addressing tunneling. You just want this anti-tunnel to be absolutely free over emotional whimsy, that's all.So… “nothing” is base kit BT, no hook grabs, anti face camp, additional +10 sec to hook times, +10 altruistic perks for helping teammates when they are getting tunneled?
Do you know what "in the past" means, Survivors first got basekit BT 3 years ago.
Yeah, for the vast majority of this game's life time tunneling has basically just run around unchained.You just want this anti-tunnel to be absolutely free over emotional whimsy,
Duh, yes, that sounds great. No more games where the Killer tunnels one person out. SIGN ME UP.
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@MadDragon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013499#Comment_4013499
I never said I know better than the devs, and I gave clear examples of what I meant. It has been an issue with the game for years.
No actually, you DID imply it by saying:
BHVR constantly thinks things are problems when they aren't, and doesn't address problems when they should.
That implies you think you know better, if your say now you you don't know if you know better.
Then feel free to rephrase your expression, Maybe like this:It feels like BHVR often focuses on issues that don’t seem as important to players, and overlooks some that really impact gameplay.
The only thing you can prove, is how you feel about it. You have absolutely no credible data for anything other than your opinion.
So yeah, you bet your hide on that Ill take BHVR's word on what they want to change or any random opinion you have.
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013487#Comment_4013487
But BHVR does have the statistics and given the response to tunneling they rolled out, I would say its likely alarming.
Are u sure? Because question of tunnelling always existed in community. Some decisive strike existed since the first licensed chapter. It's not something that suddenly appeared and spreaded as a disease. It's just that there used to be broken perks and map spawns that, even if a killer tunneled, could give survivors a free exit. That's gone now. To outplay a tunnel, you need to work as a team, and solo q lacks tool of that, especially in a period where literally every other match is against an S-tier killer. It's not “killer hard tunnel way more often”. It's “ Every match is S tier one that can tunnel you without any struggles”
They're trying to fight with consequences rather than actual cause simply because, unsurprisingly, people haven't stopped tunneling after nine years. Probably because it's still the most popular way to play asymmetrical horror for most players. So it's in demand as much as anti tunnel system. And what to do in such situations if both options are in demand in the game?
And the only thing that's a negative is that some survivors don't like being eliminated from a match too quickly. It's literally a problem of emotions. Emotions in a PvP game, where you're bound to feel negative if you lose too quickly. So why does BHVR continue to play with this theme? Probably... ahem, because in recent years, BHVR has been focused solely on satisfying emotional needs, neglecting balance and the technical state of the game, because they realize they can't fix real problems, like endless bugs, poor S-tier killer design, and mediocre map design. But here's the problem when you try to play along with emotions - you get a patch where one of the most broken killers exists at the same time, as well as a pallet density update that negatively affected most killers. No one was happy overall, lol
You can agree with this, or you can disagree. As long as the competitive portion of DBD shows that even S-killers are unable to compete with a group of survivors without an aggressive tunnel as soon as they have comms and some sence of skill, people will believe that the tunnel option should remain in this game.
And again, IMO, the only way to make this element less frustrating is to revise the win/lose conditions, so if tunneled person guaranteed at least 2 escapes for their teammates they will be greatly rewarded. As well as provide solo survivors more autonomy and the ability to communicate well with each other. And provide a coherent SBMM, rather than trying to fight with the emotional consequences of playing asymmetrical play. You can't just remove something because it's not fun. If it leads to another balance crash and turns the game into even more technically challenging, even more so.
You are thinking about this the wrong way around, If tunneling was not an issue and no players could possibly be proven in statistics tp have quit over it, then why would BHVR do anything about it? BHVR's response in the past was to do nothing about it.
My own logic is clear: If BHVR says they want to do something about it, its probably worth doing something about.
They have other things to do, so why do it? for fun? for no reason?@MadDragon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013487#Comment_4013487
BHVR constantly thinks things are problems when they aren't, and doesn't address problems when they should. Even with something like the CR livestream, a problem they said wasn't a thing for a years is suddenly ruining a huge collab for them. The infamous flashlight era that only got nerfed when Cote played a game live. BHVR not wanting to add colorblind options (and being quite rude about it). Etc.
Killers and perks also randomly get reworked or changed massively only for the changes to be thrown out because they were horrible. Recent examples of that are Artist and Xeno.
Just because we get a patch that's trying to "fix" something doesn't mean it's an issue.
And the tunneling and slugging reduction patch doesn't even address WHY killers do that in the first place, either.
It's also near impossible to understand why people are quiting. You're not filling out a long survey everytime you uninstall the game. And the people that quite the game for good aren't going to social media to complain about, they're just dropping the game.
BHVR constantly thinks things are problems when they aren't,
Problem is you cant prove this, you don't know what the stats show. You dont know what the results of the Surveys are do you?
I rather believe BHVR knows what they are doing, rather than you know better than the developers.
BHVR has made a great game I have enjoyed for 8 years, What have you made? nothing???@runningguy said:
once again, the issue isnt tunneling or how often it happens. the issue is people refusing to counter it. it can and has been countered by myself and many others. The tunneling "issue" would go away if people just started changing play style and adapted. doesnt matter if it happens every 1 in 10 matches or every match…. counter it.
looping happens every match…. "how am i supposed to deal with this behaviour every match?" learn to counter it… adjust playstyle.
This is so flawed, im sure if tunneling was as much part of the game as looping was then people would have adjusted to it better. But they have not and now we are here when its way way better to do something about it than not.