Emeal
Emeal
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I think the reason the Killers that excel in just one thing anymore is that makes them too easy to go against, it makes it too simple for Survivors. A Killer who falls off the second you don't follow the leet gamer strategy guide is a bad Killer because there is no wiggle room for exploration. But also I can put on any perk on a new Killer and be fine, where older Killers have way narrower options and sometimes fall flat without a specific perk.
Example: Bubba with Bamboozle. Oh how weak he is to killer shack without it.
DBD's future isn't necessarily a bad thing depending on what kind of player you are, if you are a new or average player then these Killers are fine. If you are very skilled you might find them boring or too strong. As the game is made more accessible to more people the chances that a Killer will appeal mostly to the highest skill floors is disappearing. Why? Well more people mean more money, a more stable business and more DBD for years to come.
DBD is going mainstream, things are not like they used to be anymore.
Its all fine by me, I'm not a player who tries to gain as much skill as possible I tried in the past, but big MMR is just misery. So I changed my perspective and looked at why I like the game, I just enjoy the chase and fun of the game, so I focus on that.Not to depress you ofc, it is kind of sad though when time is running out and the immaterial becomes the immaterial sorta deal.
What options do BHVR have really create a Killer which can only do a few niche thing well, have it not appeal to many people, but keep a a small group happy? Or should we accept there is gonna be mainstream concessions in our Killers and see if we can find a way to maintain identity and skill in a modern world? I don't have those answers, but idd prefer everybody be happy.
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@ninjabsbx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007491#Comment_4007491
So by your logic EVERY killer is a dash killer got it
Yes, most creatures with feet can dash by shifting gravity and force.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007575#Comment_4007575
so pretty much offered no evidence to support your opinion, not even your own stats. i can think the moon is made of cheese but how do i expect people to take that seriously without showing anything to substantiate that claim? my opinion right? im entitled to it, sure. does it make it true? no. i mean your putting a lot of faith in bhvr ability to determine whats wrong and balance when they said they were going to do an anti tunnel update then they release a pro tunneling update…. im not convinced by your personal experience because from what you have shown and said your personal experience shows what i have been saying… myers got nerfed not buffed.
again your own argument, your own evidence showing gameplay shows survivors got down to the last gen. if you demolished them like tombstone myers have been doing (4k at 4 or 5 gen) you would have that experience to substantiate your claim he got buffed. Claiming you average out 2k is not exactly what i would a buff when myers players often had far better results before the rework, which is indicated by the stats, even the next clip you showed 1 gen remaining. Lots of myers players, myself included, pre rework were demolishing survivors solo and swf and 4 or 5 gens using tombstone. can you show this is still the case with the rework myers? That would atleast prove your point to some degree.
im really trying to see both sides here but im genuinely not seeing anything, stats, experience or otherwise to suggest any buffs. All im seeing is an argument for "can you 4k with myers"…yes you can. is it easier than before the rework? thats the bit your failing to explain and thats the crucial part to if myers has been nerfed or buffed.
You pretty much just ignored my entire explanation of why we cant very meaningfully substantiate any claim of balance, rather we can substantiate our personal experience by recorded it. If you are just gonna continue demanding evidence for my subjective opinion I think you will be disappointed.
i mean your putting a lot of faith in bhvr ability to determine whats wrong and balance when they said they were going to do an anti tunnel update then they release a pro tunneling update….
If I didn't think BHVR was doing the right things to make an entertaining game product, I would quit.
Has nothing to do with faith though, they have provided an excellent game for 9+ years. -
@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007490#Comment_4007490
you havnt provided arguments which support myers buff at all lol. you have only attempted to debunk and invalidate anyone that suggests myers got nerfed which you yourself seem to be dismissing anything that anyone says. You maintain this "only bhvr will get close to that" mindset but you cant seriously be saying only bhvr can tell people if its a buff or nerf. bhvr gets their stats from the people, the very same people that are making it abundantly clear its a nerf. My stats mean nothing, the number of nerf post and threads on this forum alone that out number the buffs 10 to 1 apparently means nothing, people stating what they have seen and experienced means nothing because only bhvr have access to stats.
you have flat out ignored the fact that it took me days to get regular 4k with old myers but its taking more time and more effort to get the same result with reowork myers. im not saying its definitive proof its a nerf or buff but its certainly an indicator, maybe im the outlier and the exception to the rule. myself and others have provided you with more than adequate arguments to support myers has been nerfed (which you dismiss) but apparently your non argument of debunking others automatically proves its not a nerf its a buff.
"My experience has been quite a lot of 4Ks until I faced people who play better and then it slowed down, now its 2Ks on average.
Against Myers, my solo Q team mates was rolled in dough, deep fried and eaten whole, but that's not really different from normal gameplay before this patch."This statement and the 1 clip showing a match is the only evidence you have provided which both actually support my argument lol.
- you admit that kill rate slowed down to 2ks on average…. yet tombstone myers generally gets 3/4k on average. for this to support your argument you would need to be getting less than 2k on average with old myers which is highly doubtful based on the stats that bhvr released, the same stats you whole heartedly swear by as solid proof.
- the clip you provided shows 4k with 1 gen left. old myers would have gotten 4k at 3, 4 or 5 gens remaining especially v soloq players. The fact survivors managed to get it down to 1 gen left also shows they are making more progress v new myers than the old version.
@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007541#Comment_4007541
You claim this, but have no evidence to support it.
Well, if you can treat personal experience as an "argument", so can I.
I love theory crafting and I am rarely wrong, so don't really have need to validate my predictions for multiple days just to stay at the same outcome.
If multiple people were having opposite experience, then I would go and validate my opinion more to see what's going on and either change my opinion on the topic, or find things to back up my view, but so far you are the only one who thinks otherwise in this case, so I don't have need to do it.But don't worry devs also have an issue with theory crafting, so you are not alone :)
Would it help you to see me get value from Shreds?
Well, you claimed it as main reason, why he is supposed to be stronger than before, so it's supposed to be such a big deal that it overshadows all the nerfs he got, so I would kinda expect to see it to be used and get results...
Lets clear this, We are all providing weak arguments based on our Personal Experience. Which is a guess we have about what is wrong, BHVR is the only ones who will get to tell for sure though, we can only guess based on our personal experiences. BHVR get their stats from how we play, but sometimes the what is said does not match up with the numbers, this is why BHVR cross-reference with statistics.
And no, that does not mean your experience means nothing, its valuable feedback to BHVR even if they are weak arguments. BHVR like to hear bad arguments too, both give them inspiration, ambition and invites them to develop solutions.
But between us Two Subjective Experiences don't mean much to each other, in both same ways we are unconvinced by the other having a different experience. An argument based on only Personal Experience is just the same, a weak argument.
We both made clear that we are not convinced by each other's personal experience and both of us remain skeptical in return.And no, me pointing out a problem with those arguments and how you structure them, does not make my own suddenly 'not weak', that would be dishonest. But then again, if I have given indication that I believed that to be the case, then that was wrong of me.
Speaking of problems with arguments, No not every game will have absurd shred value, I don't expect that, why do you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxTId5J_6vgI had more Shred value in this game, but I doubt it will be enough for you guys. And I was absurdly lucky in the beginning too.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007490#Comment_4007490
I just don't see how valid in any way it could be if you have admitted to not having spent barely any time on him.
You are not capable of understanding what's written in patch notes without testing it for serveral days?
Kinda sad… Well, I don't have issue doing it.Against Wraith maybe when its safe, but no I run around to gain distance.
If I am not injured, I have no reason to drop the pallet. Game even gives me sound to know when he is ready to dash.
at worst he will M1 and that's very good for me.Which isnt an argument.
So list of what is worse and even showing you why shred is not big deal is not an argument and explaining it too.
But claiming he has shred, so he is better, while your own video doesn't back it up is supposed to be valid…You are not capable of understanding what's written in patch notes without testing it for several days?
Kinda sad… Well, I don't have issue doing itYou claim this, but have no evidence to support it.
So list of what is worse and even showing you why shred is not big deal is not an argument and explaining it too.
But claiming he has shred, so he is better, while your own video doesn't back it up is supposed to be valid…No, a list does not much convincing do. Its your opinion and I get you want to be heard, but I don't share it.
No, showing a specific example of standing still does not do that either.
No, that video was not supposed to show the usefulness of the Shred. It was to substantiate my experience.Would it help you to see me get value from Shreds? Why?
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@ninjabsbx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007419#Comment_4007419
Do you call Ghostface a dash killer then since he ambushes people with his stealth?
Every lunge is also a dash in a sense.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007418#Comment_4007418
am i right in that you think myers has been buffed but provide no evidence or argument to back this up but instead try to debunk evidence that suggests he has been nerfed? if your going on stats and numbers like a computer then what stats and numbers do you have to suggest he has been buffed?
Not exactly I already provided arguments for that, but you guys just dismissed them because you don't think its useful.
Which isnt an argument. Other than that we already discussed how none of us will have any tangible evidence for one way or the other, only BHVR will get closest to that. And then I got the other guy to admit he wont even play it, I think you also managed to do that.So I don't know why you are asking for evidence you should know I cant give you or repeat arguments you already dismissed.
@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007418#Comment_4007418
when everyone stands perfectly still like would not happen in normal gameplay
You never stand under pallet waiting for what killer is going to do?
Ignoring list of why he is worse I see. Well as positive you said basically pallet shred and stealth on command.
Kinda funny, when you have such a good stealth, yet you had to play with Unforseen…
What's even better, do you know how many pallets you managed to destroy with your shred in that video? 1 and it was already predropped
You say it makes him better, but survivors can easily react to it and stun you from it, if they are at least decent. It's just terrible compare to any other pallet destroying power.You never stand under pallet waiting for what killer is going to do?
Against Wraith maybe when its safe, but no I run around to gain distance.
I'm not going to let a bad connection ruin my games.Ignoring list of why he is worse I see.
Im not ignoring your list,
I just don't see how valid in any way it could be if you have admitted to not having spent barely any time on him.Kinda funny, when you have such a good stealth, yet you had to play with Unforseen…
I use a randomizer website to pick my perks. I didn't HAD to play with it.
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@ninjabsbx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007031#Comment_4007031
Thats not a dash thats an ambush attack, that he does after Bob opens the closet. Thats in character for Myers to attack his prey from hidden places.
What is an Ambush except for a low range dash?
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4006969#Comment_4006969
i agree i have not mastered myers fully after 4 days, i did master tombstone myers after 4 days though lol. the skill ceiling on tombstone myers was pretty low so it didnt take muck to pick up, play and get 4k. new myers seems to require time….clearly thats a nerf.
You said it yourself, its big trends that count. how do we get to big trends? when enough people add to the stats to create a big trend. looking at the big picture you have to take into account all players which would include my stats as an indicator. if people were saying they are now getting 3 or 4k easier than before then they would also be taken into account.
points that suggest myers is nerfed
- personal experience
- the number of people being very vocal regarding its a nerf
- other peoples stats and experience (might not be a big enough trend for you but its a strong indicator atleast)
points that suggest myers has been buffed…..
- the very few people that claim hes easier
- …..no just that 1 no personal stats from people saying "now im getting 4k but before i struggled to get 2k" lol
you dont need to see cold hard stats after months of analysis to work out some outcomes, sometimes the pattern and indicators are clear well before hand and can be easily predicted. its like saying "putting your hand in fire will burn you but we need to wait for the stats to show this because there are a few people that claim it doesnt burn you lol"
If stats later show myers had a buff i will say im wrong but the evidence SO FAR strongly indicates hes suffered a pretty hefty nerf based on 1. my own experience. 2 based on others experience and 3. based on the stats of other peoples matches showing they are getting less kills now than before the rework.
You said it yourself, its big trends that count. how do we get to big trends? when enough people add to the stats to create a big trend. looking at the big picture you have to take into account all players which would include my stats as an indicator. if people were saying they are now getting 3 or 4k easier than before then they would also be taken into account.
Unfortunately just making a list of thing you heard is not really what it takes to gather a big trend.
You got the part right about listening to what the Community says, but then you cross reference that with stats and survey data.Could also just be everyone is kicking and screaming about it right now, and that it will be adopted in time.
I am definitely adopting Myers right now. How could you account for that with your lil study? Trick Question, You cant.@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007230#Comment_4007230
while you can show me nothing
ability to shred pallets is a huge reason he is better in my opinion
Wow, so strong and definetly not easy to ignore as survivor.
While:
- you are slower in T1
- stalk has limited range
- you can't instantly pop T3
- you overall use it way slower, so harder to mindgame than with M1
- Weaker addons
- you can't stalk in T2 (kinda useless unless survivors are injured)
- your instadown attack has cooldown
- you are not M1 killer anymore, so less perk options
- when stalk meter is full you are forced into T2, which has higher TR than before
- you also have higher TR when you are in T3
- survivors got back notifications about your stalking progress
Ill grant you, when everyone stands perfectly still like would not happen in normal gameplay then yes, its easy to counter. Idk why you would think that would be a convincing argument, but yeah we can grant that…
Whats next?
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007200#Comment_4007200
I think the best argument for treading old ground is people loved Myers, even though he was weak. A lot of people already played Myers as he was, because of the love of the character. A lot of his mechanics were fun, even if not strong, which is something that is rare in DBD in this meta obsessed generation.
So he has been reworked... fine... but who has he been reworked for? If he's not gonna be made bonkers strong and become meta, who is it that the rework is actually for? Cause it isn’t the players love him already... his identity has shifted quite drastically. It doesn't seem to be the meta crowd, cause he isnt meta either. It doesnt seem to be players lookimg for a unique and interesting playstyle, cause he feels like a weird mishmash of several killers, and arrived at something that feels kinda homogenous. BHVR have basically pulled off the wheel axel to fix a punctured tyre.
If it were up to me, I would switch back to old Myers, then:
- Add the stances as they are with Stalker mode and Pursuer mode with the switch on his secondary power button.
- Stalker Mode has his old stalk bonus of 40m with 0.6S/s (Stalk per second) at 2m and 1S/s at 40m.
- Pursuer Mode has a fixed 0.6m/s stalk regardless of distance and is 16m TR with all the 20% buffs (break/stun/vault).
- Once Myers has filled his Stalk Meter, he can hold his secondary power to channel for 1s and become Evil Incarnate, and otherwise switch stance as normal.
- Evil Incarnate stance goes back to 32m TR, causes exposed for all Survivors and gains the extra 20% lunge. He cannot switch back to the other modes until his duration is up. He gains an empowered pallet pallet break (say 40% speed) on his secondary power that costs 15% of his Evil Within meter, with add-ons to reduce this cost. Have his new Execute added for death hook Survivors.
- Tombstone Piece is reworked, e.g. something like allowing his Execution on Death Hook Survivors in any stance for a cost of 50% Stalk.
- Judith Myers Tombstone remains the same as it was before.
In this version every aspect of his stances are useful, he is still very much Myers, but with some additional tools to help him out.
You do know people can love things that are bad for the game right? Like I'm sure some people love tunneling AND camping.
I had a particular love for Old Legion AND Old Freddy myself, should we have kept those around for Love???And, Do you expect all the people who had problems with Myers to patch it with Love themselves?
Seems like an impossible task for BHVR to do that. Just love him mate. 😍♥️I don't agree he has lost identity either, he is still stealthy evil man who looks at you to kill you.
I know Identity is very subjective and will wary on your own perceptions of the Icon, but every game has to make some Ludonarrative compromises to make things fit, but also work as a game. So even I have to make concessions with my disbelief to accept the game. -
@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007181#Comment_4007181
I mean, you act like you know, yet fail to back up your claims and try to cover it as skill issue.
You say his pallet breaking makes him good, yet his pallet breaking is worst from all killer powers in DBD.
Even his stealth is worse than before rework.I don't need hundreds of games to figure out what is worse and what is better about him. And in my opinion there are more things worse than better.
Myers was not that strong killer to begin with, so I fail to see why would you need to nerf multiple aspects of his kit to balance few buffs.
You outright admitted you refuse to play him. Not giving time to adapt and become better.
I even showed you guys actual gameplay of me playing him, backing up my experience, while you can show me nothing.There is no way we can turn this conversation constructive now when you refuse to play him. Goodbye.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007063#Comment_4007063
It's how the dash has 12 different downsides and drawback compared to the old Exposed, and the amount of info your power gives to survivors.
About the first point, the dash has a 6 second cooldown (for some reason) paired with a shorter duration of tier 3. This makes it so you can hardly get value. Next is how you have to charge it up for a good while to even get something more than a regular lunge. And lastly, synergy with M1 perks, gone. (that is just a nitpick)
And on the info part, survivors can easily track what exactly you are doing with the audio ques. Above 50% stalk? Audio Que. Ready to trigger tier 3? Audio Que + a forced TR increase. Actually trigger tier 3, also a sound. Use the dash? Audio que.
also the stalk distance reduction is stupid
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007063#Comment_4007063
If it were my list:
- Stalk range is reduced to 32m meaning players cannot find good stalk angles without being much more obvious.
- Feeding off the previous point, stalk doesn't change with distance and the stationary stalk bonus is generally less optimal due to basically being the same stalk rate and survivors easily seeing you and breaking sight, and so Myers sits playing peekaboo round tiles, which looks goofy AF.
- The sound cues are kinda all over the place, even warning survivors they are being stalked so there is no point trying to sneaky stalk. The schlink of his knife feels tacky, as if Myers is showing off his knife before he uses it, which Myers doesn't do.
- Stalking in general is much faster, with none of the add-ons that make extend it/have tombstones to make Myers feel ominous and scary. He just wanders out, stalks in your face, then starts trying to Slaughtering Strike you. It's highly predictable and has no tension.
- Pursuer mode makes him an ordinary M1 killer with some slight stun/break/vault recovery buffs and a longer lunge, but then there is the Evil Incarnate mode with big dash. If the SS dash is good (its easy to stalk up and then instadown/break pallets), then Pursuer mode has little reason to exist. If SS sucks then Myers in general sucks cause Pursuer mode isnt gonna make up the difference.
- You can't even hold your stalk in Pursuer for the right moment to use both modes interchangeably, as not stalking for too long causes you to lose stalk, so you can't even tactically 99 the ability. If you charge it up you are forced to Pursuer mode, and are 24m TR with it, so saving it is pointless anyway, might as well just go.
- Slaughtering Strike is an M2 and removes a lot of his old perk synergies, restricting his build paths.
- Evil Incarnate lasts much less time overall as well, so you can just get ran pallet to pallet, and you're back to playing peekaboo again.
- Slaughtering Strike is basically just a Pig Dash with and instadown/pallet break tacked on, there is nothing new or unique about the ability that makes Myers feel unique or engaging to play. The only reason it beats Pig Dash is cause it breaks pallets, otherwise it has the same issues Pig Dash does.
Don't wanna just rag on the rework, but for better or worse, old Myers felt like Myers. This new version is weird. It doesn't play like Myers for killer, and it doesn't play like you're against Myers for Survivor. I'm disappointed on both fronts.
Okay so you say he has some issues, maybe he needs tweaks none of us can know that for sure, but if true BHVR will likely take a look at him if stats reveal him to be lacking.
But here is what I don't see, so how do we get from "new Myers have issues" to we need to reimplement some of his old kit in a compromise, because why exactly?? Why not just do some tweaks to his new kit? I mean the old stuff had its reasons to be removed right, why is there a need to tread old ground? That is my question.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007047#Comment_4007047
Or I just have better reactions than you and I can stun him from his power, it's just lunge speed…
If you compare it with other killers who can destroy pallets, he is way slower than Demo, Blight, or Billy, which makes it way easier to stun him instead of letting him destroy pallet.
Unlike Bubba he can't really fake his movement to get you drop the pallet, he is forced to go forward.I doubt you even played him tho. You sound kinda out of touch with reality.
I have definetly not spend hours on new Myers, because I don't find it fun, but Scott did and I consider Scott to be at least decent killer player. Can't say that about you.
If you are not willing to spend the time playing the game, then you will not know. Holy Heck My Guy.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4006559#Comment_4006559
Because, as I said, a full revert (my prefered option) is highly unlikely and would also produce hate from players who like the kind of power Myers has now.
But something NEEDS to be done.
That was my question, what is it that is bad and needs to be done something about`?
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4006777#Comment_4006777
There is no way you can determine objectivity from that, none of us could.
But you can determinate he is definetly stronger?
ability to shred pallets is a huge reason he is better in my opinion
Ability to shred pallets might be good in theory, the issue is he is quite slow in it, so it's not that difficult to just stun him instead.
his Undetectable on Command
That has limited value and not really that better to previous version anyway. It was easy for him to create TR 6m…
If this is all you can come up with, then he is definetly worse.
ability to shred pallets
… but you can be stunned-
Undetectable on Command
has limited value
I'm beginning to think you might just be bad at playing new Myers if that is your assessment. In your hands perhaps.
or just super unserious about playing new Myers, Ill leave you to your defiance then jeez. -
https://youtu.be/hGJXpLjytgc?feature=shared&t=21When people asked for a rework for Myers people wanted you guys to make the current Myers feels better, NOT making him into a dash killer. Slaughtering Strike as a concept is not inherently a bad idea, albeit a bit generic. It works fine as a chase power. But it just doesnt work on Michael Myers. Michael is not someone who moves quickly and charges at people.
Michael Myers literally dashes at the Bob Character after his Sex Scene. Zooming out of the Closet at super speed.
This scene here could also equally be a very short Lunge, because he has undetectable in Evil Within Mode.
You guys are super picky when it comes to when you suspend your disbelief and its not at all fair in my opinion.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4006777#Comment_4006777
if we are going by stats then ideally my kill rate would be a good stat to go by? pre rework p100 myers i was getting 3/4k almost every match and have done for years which is why my kill rate is 80 to 90% and often go against 3 or 4 man swf on a regular basis so im not even getting soloq, if my kill rate dropped then it should indicate a nerf?
like i said, before rework soloq would often get demolished because people feed stalk but now soloq players are having a much easier time, im not seeing anyone saying myers is op like they used to say pre rework, i mean there is a handful of people that seem to claim he is op after rework but it really does take some searching to find these posts.
if we are going by stats then ideally my kill rate would be a good stat to go by?
Why would you personal kill rate be anything to go by?
I dont think you understand why we look at stats at all if you make such a statement, its not personal stats that matter but rather big trends.every match and have done for years which is why my kill rate is 80 to 90% and often go against 3 or 4 man swf on a regular basis so im not even getting soloq, if my kill rate dropped then it should indicate a nerf
And so your personal Killrate dropped and you claim you have fully used and learnt everything there is to know about the new Myers after 4 days, You are at the maximum peak of what new Myers can possibly ever do?
Cause that is what you would have to be for that statement to more than just personal experience.Even so if that is true BHVR could buff Myers later,
but I remain skeptical at best at your claim at having figured out new Myers fully. -
@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4006651#Comment_4006651
You cant figure out how Myers is stronger with his new changes and you are looking for advice on how to use them?
Well, by looking at his changes I would say he is objectively worse, but you claim he is definetly stronger, so I expect you see something I don't.
So tell me why is his current version stronger. You for sure have some reasoning behind it and I would like to know.
You are suggesting they should not look at stats? LMAO.
They were doing exactly this for several years and that's how pig was nerfed multiple times and Nurse was claimed to be fine.
That's how several addons got nerfed (Demo, Nemesis), when all other addons were useless.Looking at spreadsheed is not a good way to balance. They should look at stats, but it should not be primary tool. I believe players feedback is more important.
Well, by looking at his changes I would say he is objectively worse
There is no way you can determine objectivity from that, none of us could.
BHVR could by looking at the stats when they stabilize. Even if you think stats mean less.So tell me why is his current version stronger. You for sure have some reasoning behind it and I would like to know.
Ok, his Undetectable on Command, ability to shred pallets is a huge reason he is better in my opinion. less time wasted elsewhere is more time to make a play that matters. But I thought this should be obvious from the changes.
@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4006651#Comment_4006651
we can only go on our own experiences and so far im seeing very few people say myers has been buffed. but a lot saying its a nerf, this is backed by my own experience in the game and the experience of others in my games. what do you have to realistically demonstrate myers has been buffed? whats your experience been like against or as myers?
we can only go on our own experiences and so far im seeing very few people say myers has been buffed.
but a lot saying its a nerf,Like I explained to Pet, postulating the objectivity regarding these changes is meaningless, but both individual experiences can be true at the same time. Depending on what MMR we would be at the changes could affect us both positively and negatively.
It also depends on how much you go looking for other opinions, there are people who have been having good experiences with Myers and they have said so. I see such messages on critical posts of the Rework on Reddit all the time, getting disliked into oblivion ofc. I usually don't care what the Community says, because often they are wrong and I'm not supposed to be the arbiter of that.
what do you have to realistically demonstrate myers has been buffed?
Well stats is what you would need, which none of us have.
I don't even have gameplay recorded of Old Myers, so I cant demonstrate differences either.whats your experience been like against or as myers?
My experience has been quite a lot of 4Ks until I faced people who play better and then it slowed down, now its 2Ks on average.
https://youtu.be/6DFYJWAnHvk
Against Myers, my solo Q team mates was rolled in dough, deep fried and eaten whole, but that's not really different from normal gameplay before this patch.I did record a few of my games, it will demonstrate my experience at least.
But it will take time to get really good at that Slaughtering Strike. -
@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4006620#Comment_4006620
How is he exactly stronger?
Look at the statistics not only at Player Feelings.
You are really suggesting stats balancing… Lol
What do you mean 'exactly stronger'?
You cant figure out how Myers is stronger with his new changes and you are looking for advice on how to use them?You are really suggesting stats balancing… Lol
You are suggesting they should not look at stats? LMAO.
@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4006620#Comment_4006620
ye dunno what to tell you, old myers was a challenge to play against, as survivor i won some i lost some. new myers, i have never lost a match against him. says hes been nerfed big time when a mediocre survivor like me can make a mockery of myers and still escape. and its not just me escaping most matches its 3 escape. im failing to see how this killer was buffed when all myers so far (in my matches) have struggled to get more than 1k. more action packed? yes. stronger? not a chance.
(in my matches)
This part of your comment is kind of the issue isnt it,
how are we to know that you didnt face Myers's who didnt know what to do? Are you gonna asses that for us?Nah I agree, there isn't much that can be said and BHVR looking at the stats will show where people are struggling.
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First, you need to remove the animation when switching to Slaughtering Strike. Get rid of it. It was unnecessary and makes his power nearly useless by giving everyone time to set up a pallet stun.
No thanks, one of the main reasons Old Myers sucked was the 99 gameplay.
Here in Modern Dead by Daylight we give Survivors a chance to gain some distance or a fair warning before giving the Killer such a Powerful Tool as Slaughtering Strike.Please BHVR DO NOT remove the Cooldown it isnt fair to new people to find an undetectable Killer and then boom instantly dead. The average player does not want to play against that.
Second, you need to remove the cooldown to Slaughtering Strike. It already has an induction, it doesn't also need a cooldown.
Absolutely not, with a little practise you can easily hit Survivors very fast with Slaughtering Strike. Having no cooldown would make Killers who master this skill insufferable.
Here is what BHVR should do instead of doing changes this soon, Look at the statistics not only at Player Feelings.
Myers is definitely stronger than before and way more action-packed. Loads more actions or progress per min. -
Why is there need to do a Compromise?
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Give him a Shotgun. 😏
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that could work too.
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@Elan said:
So you would spend 20s infecting someone? Doesn't seem right. All she truly needs is the restriction to head attack as she had.
It does not take 20 seconds to hit a Survivor with 4 tiny balls, you know how they explode on walls into 4 exactly, so at best you would have to shot twice and it has a 2.5 sec cooldown. At best it would take you 5 seconds, unless you aim very bad.
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@bleep275 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/457054/how-to-counter-the-krasue
I have yet to die by her but got ehr adept my first round as her. Vaults are kind of a weakness for her. Most of the time as shes vaulting you can just step behind her and vault as well. She cant break pallets in head form as far as i can tell, so just keep vaulting stuff and i fair pretty well. i focus mainly on windows
HER WEAKNESS IS PALLETS???
Yeah, I have noticed. urgh.
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Counter??? how the heck do you KILL as her? 😝
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Hey if they continue these new types of Quests, Chapter Quests.
Then there is still hope
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004386#Comment_4004386
This response is so overly concerned with semantics, to the point that the logic cannibalises itself.
there is a difference between a problem existing, one person complaining/not about the problem and the playerbase at large complaining/not about it. Each can exist without the other. As people will complain about non-problems as is.
If we take this to be true then your referral back to that 2016 post of someone pointing out the problem is completely redundant. For what significance does someone pointing out a problem exists have if the existence of the problem is entirely separate from the population who experience it? None.
Well, Im glad you take that as true, but clearly OP didnt. Which is why I was able to point it out.
And as I showed, someone DID experience it. -
@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004356#Comment_4004356
You've conveniently cut away the responses, which are pretty unanimous (and reflective of the playerbase at large during this time period), that slugging was not a problem. Of course, you'll always be able to find a few people who complained about X, Y, or Z, as far back as 2016, but the average player back then was much more indifferent to slugging than they are now — as evidenced by the replies.
OP's assessment of the past is valid. While it isn't absolutely true to say "no one cared about slugging at all in the past", I don't think that's the point they were trying to make. The point was that slugging was not the hot button issue it is today, and was often seen as simply being part of the game.
Completely incorrect, there is a difference between a problem existing, one person complaining/not about the problem and the playerbase at large complaining/not about it. Each can exist without the other. As people will complain about non-problems as is.
To sum it up, a problem doesn’t require someone to point it out in order to exist.
Even if the large majority didn't complain does not mean there isn't a problem. Many often don't see problems even in plain sight.Either way that OP meant it, Slugging could still be a problem event if nobody complain about.
and as I showed, people HAVE BEEN clocking that problem since long time ago.So you pointing out people didnt care about the problem back then (some did and some didnt) does not mean it wasn't a problem.
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To begin with, I think I missed the point when slugging began to be "problem" along with campingtunneling, because literally all my 6 years in this game I never heard any complains about it and everyone understood perfectly well that it's just part of gameplay, but suddenly in last year survivors began to classify it as "unfun gameplay".
Your assessment of the past is untrue, the problem of slugging has been described as far back as 2016.
You can easily check this by searching for "slugging" and looking at the least newest pages.
They called it "Bleedout Killers" back then. 😅
But no, this problem was clocked back in 2016. Me thinks you have not really gone looking for complaints about it.
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@jesterkind said:
Personally, my pipe dream for Donna is for her to be a Twins skin - if BHVR can manage to change Victor into Angie it'd be absolutely perfect.
If BHVR can manage to rework how they made her so that they can switch out skins.
If BHVR can manage to make the Twins's power be not slugging all the damn time.Then a Donna Beneviento with the doll is gonna make BANK, just constant stream of cash.
And Capcom is gonna be like, "what are we gonna do with all this money?" and then they are gonna restart Dino Crisis.But right now? that seems SO FAR OFF.
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@PleaseRewind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002463#Comment_4002463
The number of hours I mentioned was just a ballpark. I honestly have no idea how many hours it’s been but it's most likely averages to around that. But yes, I won't finish.
I’m on tier 68 right now, and by my calculations I’ll only reach tier 93 out of 100 when the Rift ends. I’ve completed every quest so far except for one.
There are two weeks left, with 5 quests per week awarding 75 fragments each. If I finish them all, that’s 825 fragments. With 17 days left, the dailies add up too 25 per daily × 4 dailies = 100 per day, which totals 1,700. Altogether, that’s 2,525 fragments. Short of the 3,200 I need to reach the end.
My point is, if you do all the Rift quests, you really should be able to finish the Rift. I haven’t seen a good reason why that shouldn't be the case and don't understand your push back to it.
There should be at least 1 modifier coming before it ends here in September.
idk if next week is gonna be Oh look Krasue and boom surprise Chaos Shuffle or something.
Is my memory dying or did we not have a modifier in July?
EDIT: NO WE DID NOT HAVE A MODIFER IN JULY!@PleaseRewind How would your chances of completing this look if you have had the upcoming and the modifer in july?
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isnt that better because then its harder to get spotted trying to get an EMP near a gen? cause thats where Singularitys should put cameras.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4003067#Comment_4003067
You will finish the Rift before the Milestones, or at least that is my experience. Probably because I play both sides.
Main issue is they increased numbers needed for milestones. Sorry, but the requirement simply does not mach the reward. Those numbers are just insane.
if thats true then we have even more points this season, but its taking longer cause we have had less event so far?
Thing is in previous system (Tome 20) you were able to get from all challenges 505 fragments.
Deep rift used to be 85 levels, so you needed 850 fragments.
Before you were getting 1 rift fragment per 500xp, which was usually 1 fragment per game unless it was first game of the day that gave you near 2 for each side. Just this you can see is at least double of what we get now. (5 out of 100 vs 1 out of 10)
Major event rifts (Blood moon for example) usually gave you 170 fragments. Last anniversary quest system gave us 1200 fragments, so also less…
Before just from quests you finished 59% of what you needed, while those games also gave you more progress and events gave us more.
Currently quests get you to 37,5% of what you need.So issue is right now you need more points to finish whole rift and individual games give you less.
I personally can't simply play every day. I usually have longer sessions less often, which is simply terrible with current system where reward per game is lower.Before just from quests you finished 59% of what you needed, while those games also gave you more progress and events gave us more.
Currently quests get you to 37,5% of what you need.See thats a powerful analysis-
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002382#Comment_4002382
I'd like to see the math, cause it sounds false from just head math. Would counting up all the Rift Fragments matter?
Fragments needed: 10 000 (100x100)
Permanent quests can give you 3 750 (50x75)
There is usually at least one event, so 600 (12x50)
If you somehow managed to finish all milestones that's 1 750, but with least amount of games you will get like tier 3 or so, which would be 525.
That would be 5 125 shards…You gain 5 fragments per game. It's not that difficult to finish all daily quests in 2 games, so that would be 110 fragments.
So to finish it in most efficient way you need to play 46 days two games.But if you start playing basically anything less than that, it's going to be ridiculous number of games. To compansate 1 missing daily you have to play 22 games (slightly less, because sometimes you get 10 fragments), which is just really bad imo…
You will finish the Rift before the Milestones, or at least that is my experience. Probably because I play both sides.
Looking over this I saw on the wiki the last rift has 4500 rift fragments (45 levels) in the last Rift Pass Quest Pool.
if thats true then we have even more points this season, but its taking longer cause we have had less event so far? -
@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002918#Comment_4002918
In how many hours?
I have no idea how long it would take me to finish all the quests from nothing. I don't really care if it is 20, or 200.
Main thing is that players should be able to finish it just from permanent quests, which right now is not the case.Milestones and daily quests should be simply way for players to get their rewards sooner, not the only way to finish rift.
There is a wide cap between 20 or 200 hours spent over 80 days. But it would be constructive to have a number here.
Other than that I dont think I agree that the entire Rift should be done by quests.
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@Zuiphrode said:
I refuse to play if I can't use Lightborn.
So you want a Level 2 Implementation then, I fear that might be more difficult to implement, so it might come later. But for sure we don't want anyone left behind for too long, when BHVR adds this.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002870#Comment_4002870
How do you know this? Are you sure about that?
At minimum that's how it affected me and I doubt I am only one. People who have lives outside of DBD can't really suddenly play more, at least not in long term.
I dont see any way you COULD know for sure, but please enlighten us.
How do you know players will play more, because devs increased the grind? That's usually not something that will motivate people.
People in general don't take well, when they have to suddenly do more for the same result…
That is my question and how many hours total of gameplay should reward a full rift?
How ever long it takes for player to finish all quests.
Rift should be possible to finish at almost any point, so it makes sense for people to buy it even on later date and can attempt to finish it.
I have finished all 2v8 quests and I am going to finish all normal quests, yet so far it's unlikely I will be able to finish rift, not even close. So I have no intention of buying it.Yeah I kind of suspected it to be a personal.
Rift should be possible to finish at almost any point
In how many hours?
because honestly that sounds less than a Battlepass and more like free goodies.
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@dgbug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002463#Comment_4002463
Again, you are not arguing in good faith. Leave my post. You've defended BHVR's awful monetization practices on my posts as far back as 2023, and there's clearly no point in talking to you when you're just going to argue in favor of anything they do.
Nobody here argues in good faith, I asked if we should do a count of Rift fragments dealt out and nobody seems to want to get to the actual truthful number that is contentious.
@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002378#Comment_4002378
Nobody is "forcing" you to play, if playing a game feels like a second job to you. Maybe you should not play it?
Besides I don't think its even required to play every day.
I'd like to see the math, cause it sounds false from just head math. Would counting up all the Rift Fragments matter?But nobody seems to take it seriously and then you complain to me about not arguing in good faith, please.
@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002121#Comment_4002121
Its almost like the system was made to incentivize players to play
Yeah, such changes will have opposite effect and less rifts sold.
I put in my hours playing surely I should be rewarded more than you?
You get extra 5k BP after max level, that's how valuable your time is for BHVR…
Higher time investment also gets you your rewards faster. That's what daily quests should do for you + let you ignore some challenges.
If permanent quests are not enough to finish the rift, then it's just bad design, because after some time of rift being active, it simply doesn't make sense for new/returning players to buy it, because it's impossible to finish for them.Yeah, such changes will have opposite effect and less rifts sold.
How do you know this? Are you sure about that? This might be the case for you, but how do you know all the others will follow?
I dont see any way you COULD know for sure, but please enlighten us.Even so if the squeeze is too hard BHVR will likely change it, they have the statistics to to show how hard the Rift needs to be to get the most out of it for themselves. I am open to that.
You get extra 5k BP after max level, that's how valuable your time is for BHVR…
You mean playing a game I enjoy? nah you misunderstand my argument, I am asking what is wrong with some people who dont have enough time to play not making the rift full? so they either have to buy the rest or live without them.
That is my question and how many hours total of gameplay should reward a full rift?
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Ironically that is exactly one of the reasons we wanted Mapp Offerings Nerfed
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Well there is some changes coming for Camping still so.
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That isn't a solution, that is to continue with the status quo.
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@PleaseRewind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002323#Comment_4002323
I still fail to see how it's unfair to anyone. If I play 5-6 hours a week and you play 15-16 hours not to mention if we both buy the DLC, skins, Rift etc.. we are both contributing to keeping the game going.
I don't see how it impacts on you if Bhvr reduces the grind a bit to get through the rift.
So you are saying to me, that you play 5 hours a week, but you will be unable to finish the rift?
Are you sure about that?
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002121#Comment_4002121
Games are about fun and shouldn’t feel like a second job. Sure BVR has to find the right balance as a business, but forcing players to play daily just isn’t it. Not everyone can play everyday for hours.
Aside from that you are still getting special bonuses for playing a lot like shards and bloodpoints, that’s your reward and soon behavior will add prestige rewards.
Nobody is "forcing" you to play, if playing a game feels like a second job to you. Maybe you should not play it?
Besides I don't think its even required to play every day.
I'd like to see the math, cause it sounds false from just head math. Would counting up all the Rift Fragments matter? -
@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002121#Comment_4002121
Because that sucks and it's anti consumer?
Well that is an opinion, Why should I think the Battlepass is anti consumer?
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I know, I want this too.
Its like BHVR is pretending to be allergic to money with the time they waste not putting it in.
Surely there are hungry animators in their studios too, just think what you could do if you had a small army of them. -
Those of us who keep the game running by playing it.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002233#Comment_4002233
Getting blinded at every pallet break will be less worse with this perk. People who play flashlights will typically just have this and thus won't have battery addons. With how much BP people are getting you can already bring a flashlight every match
The problem is not the Batteries.
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Oh man a skin like that AND a floating red skull orbiting around me? YES PLEASE.
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Damn, so I was right, I feel so smart right now. Biggest Brain.