Dustin
Dustin
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Blocking a survivor in a corner or closed off room like the basement is a way the killer can hold the game hostage as stated. Although BHVR should give killers AFK crows that removes collision to prevent this all together. Yeah you can report the killer for this but scenarios like this should be prevented in the first place so the survivors don't have their games ruined in the first place.
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@TheBilldozer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1016365#Comment_1016365
So have you not reviewed the steam charts recently? Year over year, month over month, their player base is increasing.
Their viewership on Twitch is also regularly in the top ten.
So when you say things like "IF BHVR WANTS TO KEEP PLAYERS" - you're being hyperbolic and are speaking against the data.
What you're MEANING to say is: If BHVR wants to keep YOU in the game, they should meet YOUR specific listed demands. At least be honest about it.
Granted we are getting new players but we also can't prove if a lot of them are just old players returning after a big update. Numbers don't give us enough info.
I personally don't benefit from anything I mentioned because I've played since 2016 and have all content unlocked. There's literally nothing BP does for me unless it's at the launch of each chapter.
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While I'm against outright purchasing bloodpoints I'm not against stuff like boosters likely incorporated in a battlepass although that would be a short term fix for a bigger problem the game has.
It's the same concept as DLC though. You pay money and you get content sooner which in this case can be perks or a killer power. You can still get them for free by grinding so in a way can that be considered P2W? Using real money to increase BP gain would essentially be the same concept. It's not like having access to all perks and addons gives you an instant win.
I am supportive of removing perk tiers though because it would also be easier for BHVR to balance perks instead of giving it weird traits just so it has something to scale off of.
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If BHVR wants to keep new players in the game they should really improve the new player experience.
- A fully fleshed out tutorial
- Less of a grind starting out
- Features that reduce griefing - Ex) AFK crows for killers so their collision disappears to prevent hostage situations, cooldown on mori to prevent mori spam since it's for some reason reportable and an actual chat filter for those who don't want to see slurs in chat.
- Replace the shrine with a perk market that prices perks based on how old they are. This would benefit everyone but would be more appealing to new players rather than waiting a week for a perk.
These are excluding matchmaking issues which admittedly you can't control unless you have a proper amount of players at each rank. Only way they fix that is if they get a surge of players and actually keep them.
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Every chapter a free perk is added to each side - In addition to the 3 survivor perks and 3 killer perks each side gets with the DLC each chapter I would like an addition of 1 perk to each side each chapter. This would be of course more ideal after all the bad perks currently in the game are reworked.
Additional base kit mechanics for survivor and killer - Whether it becomes a new objective for survivors or other ways to interact with survivors as the killer I feel as though a new mechanic would refresh this game here and there. End Game Collapse was an excellent addition to the game and is exactly the type of thing I'd want more of in this game.
The ability to save loadouts per character - This suggestion speaks for itself. I know enough of you have played this game enough to have multiple perk builds on your favorite characters. Being able to change that with the click of one button would be nothing short of a much needed quality of life change for all players.
Overhaul of existing features - Some features in the game feel like they're in need of a refresh such as black locks. I'd argue that for survivors the addition of chest with loot you can only get in these chest using a key. Once open the killer would also get a bonus for killing anyone who held the item in the chest. I could suggest a lot more but everyone likely has an idea of what this game could use.
Map reworks and other cool stuff - A lot of maps have been getting a lot of reworks lately so this is a given and I'll trust BHVR handles this right. Although admittedly I'd love to see map specific features and mechanics that both sides can interact with. How would everyone feel about doors you push open for example? It could be a map hazard in terms of when pushed open both sides hear a creaking sound as the door slowly (or quickly if sprinting) is opened. It could also be a visual cue for the killer if they notice the door slowly shutting on its own.
Community Servers, Mod Support for community made cosmetics and custom maps - This community has a lot of talented artist and other talents and I could see that being utilized more by BHVR. Community cosmetics and other assets would be great and custom maps could bring a lot of endless content to this game. Community servers would be a must however for community maps in terms of testing.
A proper tutorial which is a sequence of scenarios for each side - In my opinion this would be the most important addition which is a more fleshed out tutorial. Each side should have a 5 part tutorial system cut up into chunks so each player can pick and choose specific mechanics they want to learn about instead of having if all shoved at them at once in such a rushed fashion. Each part of the tutorial should reward you 10 - 20k BP depending on the difficulty to replicate rewards in the main game. However since each side would have 5 parts it would give them a generous starting point so the new player experience isn't so rough and they can get perks. It also lets everyone try stuff at their own pace.
More incentives to purchase the battle pass - I'll be the first to say I don't care for cosmetics so the battle pass does nothing for me. However I'd go as far as to say owning the Battle Pass should give you other bonuses such as a small 10% BP bonus for the entire rift duration. Rainbow 6: Siege for example does something similar with renown (Rainbow 6: Siege currency for free stuff) and it would be a small way to encourage players in this game to cash in.
End of season rewards for ranks - Depending on your rank or pip count at the end of each season you should be awarded Bloodpoints, Battlepass Experience and Account Level Experience to give players an incentive to improve.
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The Hillbilly does have a lot of map pressure but he's also extremely loud giving you ample time to hide or avoid him. Unless he's using addons the chainsaw pretty much kills any ambushes unless you're oblivious. Usually the people that get found are the ones who hide in an obvious corner when it's too late to get distance from Hillbilly without initiating a chase.
The chainsaw isn't really good anywhere except out in the open either. Unless a survivor makes a misplay they shouldn't be caught by it by normal means. Granted I believe the Bloodlust argument is a fair one where Hillbilly should lose bloodlust if he revs up his chainsaw.
Basekit wise though he's fine I would agree half his addons need touchups though. I'd imagine people just can't stand killers who don't suffer from maps being too big. Billy should be the norm for killers honestly. Map pressure and a deadly ability that requires a bit of finesse.
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Increasing generator repair time would just be a bandaid for the bad maps in the game and unbalancing the few balanced ones. A lot of maps either need reworked or decreased in size and the problem will fix itself.
Also it wouldn't hurt for BHVR to temporarily take a few specific maps out of rotation here and there for touch ups.
Regarding maps I'll just list 5 that are most problematic in my view
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- Disturbed Ward (Crotus Prenn Asylum) - Main building needs reworked as it has too many safe areas for survivors to stall
- Red Forest (Realm) - Both Mother's Dwelling and The Temple of Purgation maps are far too big just in general
- Rancid Abattoir (Coldwind Farm) - Window in building should always be blocked because loop is too safe in building when it spawns - The one that's closest to the generator spawn spot.
- Wretched Shop (Autohaven Wreckers) - Center building could use a rework because it's too safe because of the double window setup
These are maps that have super problematic areas that waste so much time for the killer for nonsense reasons. There is honestly so many maps in this game that could be reworked with tiny changes that would fix a lot for killer side. Notably window setups.
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I love when survivors use Head-On because they're generally doing nothing but trying to intervene in loops or troll the killer. They might get away with it once but you can just sidestep a locker they'll likely be in and now they're just wasting time.
Example is the locker in the killer shack closest to the door. That's the most common one that's used when a survivor is running shack. Usually a survivor with head-on waits for another survivor to take the vault. If you have an idea they're in the locker just sidestep it during the chase. Yeah you'll probably lose a little bit of time but usually the thirsty survivors just pop out of the locker in an attempt to stun you regardless. So that should be a free hit in that scenario.
Unfortunate about DC's in your games likely just killers who don't like to adapt or feel the stun removes the power role from them.
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1012987#Comment_1012987
Even as survivor you shoupdnt decide to DC or play it out. You play it out.
Dont be a child, if you queued up, play the damned game. Someone else DCs, and the games a little lopsided. Sure. But what makes it even worse? When another leaves. Then another.
Tl;dr: dont hit "find game" if you unwilling or incapable of finishing the entire match, regardless of outcome. Its selfish and childish.
Absolutely not. This game was designed to be played as a 4v1. If someone DC's in the first 30 seconds and the game doesn't return to lobby like it's supposed to I'm bailing. Sorry but no thanks I don't play farming games.
It's honestly more selfish thinking anyone finds a 3v1 fun from the get go and that you actually believe the killer should play nice in that situation. Everyone has already had their game ruined in that scenario there's no point sticking it out. Guessing though you scimmed past the part where I said if the game has already progressed enough I play it out anyway but go figure.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1012987#Comment_1012987
Well, but if a Survivor DCs, 4 other people can still have a game (and it still cannot be that bad, if the Killer decides to go easy... not farm, not letting the Survivors win, but not going ultimate Tryhard afterwards, because a 3v1 is basically a Win for the Killer). If the Killer DCs, nobody has a game anymore.
Had a Wraith yesterday who ragequit after he got stunned by a Pallet. I heard the Stun, and then he DCed. This man does not like to get pallet-stunned, apparently.
But yeah, only Survivors DC and I am pretty sure people can make something up why it was totally justified that he DCed.
If it's up to the killer to decide to play easier than what they can normally do I'd rather just bail personally. I don't find fun in a game where the killer is just handicapping their own ability. Granted you can still have some fun games this way but most of the time it's one of those why bother kind of things.
Don't get me wrong DC'ing is bad no matter what but if I'm in a situation as survivor where there's an immediate survivor DC for example I'd rather just re-queue. Let's say we're about 4-5 minutes into a game I'll likely just play it out since the remaining survivors and myself have already invested enough effort into the game.
Sucks for that Wraith though. Sounds like they were pretty tilted and should probably just take a breather from the game tbh.
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I'd attempt to escape the hook as survivor because I didn't know it was optional. It's still not entirely clear to new survivors that it's optional either to be fair.
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@thelioncid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1012985#Comment_1012985
I have never used these dirty strategies, but it is true that the lack of ruin will increase them in other killers.
I'll be the first to admit I play like an (Mean Person because swear words) in red ranks as killer but I never used Ruin aside from Tombstone Myers. The reality is a lot of people are going to start playing like me just to break even assuming they play M1 killers like I do. I don't play sweaty at all but I don't play with the survivors having fun in mind at all (At least not anymore). That's just how the game is. We'll see how it plays out when the changes go live anyways.
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@DBDIT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1012987#Comment_1012987
This is before the game starts and the killer sees a swf or a certain item they don't like which, in turn, makes us wait forever to get into a game. Legitimately having one game an hour in some cases. Doesn't seem fair is what I'm saying.
Oh you meant lobby dodging my bad.
I've always assumed console has a smaller amount of people playing because the game from what I understand is harder to tolerate on console due to bugs and such. Only thing I'd imagine would help is cross-play to help alleviate matchmaking issues a bit. Although as frustrating as this game is yeah it would help if players didn't constantly dodge. It's hard enough to find a game as it is.
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Likely because when a survivor DC's everyone still has the option to follow their lead and DC as well or stick it out in a handicapped game. When the killer DC's at least the game ends immediately and no one has to deal with a handicap game. I don't mind too much when a killer DC's because at least I'm not put into the position to decide to DC or play it out. Just my two cents on the matter.
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Ruin wasn't necessary to win but it was necessary if you want to reduce the chances of the killer playing in an unfun manner for survivors. Expect a lot more tunneling, camping to secure kills and other unfun strategies to compensate for lack of Ruin.
BHVR should have reduced the size of larger maps and balanced out broken loops before nerfing Ruin quite honestly. Didn't need a Ruin nerf to say god windows are broken and unfun to play against but I guess only the survivors fun matters. Granted I believe a Ruin nerf would and should eventually happen but not before the rest of the game was balanced.
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Each rank reset the amount of pips you have should give you bloodpoints, experience in battlepass and experience in your account level. Not sure the amount but something like that would encourage me to stay in decent rankings.
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@Huntar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/999258#Comment_999258
None of that was the issue. Dwight's fat head was blocking GF through the entire clip. This isn't hard.
Yes his head was covering Ghostface but Ghostface wasn't centered on the screen. Not disagreeing it's a stupid feature but it's not survivor model POV its player POV that needs to be centered to reveal.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/999372#Comment_999372
I'm sorry are we actually defending this buggy catastrophe of a killer's mechanics just for the sake of avoiding any criticism directed at killers in this game?
Ghostface's reveal doesn't work properly. It's inconsistent. Sometimes you're looking at him with nothing in the way and he gets revealed. Sometimes you can reveal him through walls. Earlier in the patch you could literally stalk people you had no vision of.
But have fun using your eyes. Some clips of you playing and revealing him properly consistently would be a good thing, since we're blatantly ignoring the many hours of footage of GF being buggy.
I get where you're coming from but I can see why people are getting fed up with any proposals being made. Mainly because half the time when some users are suggesting a fix they're bundling it with proposed nerfs which Ghostface doesn't need. Pretty sure all of us can come to an agreement that his reveal needs fixed. His basekit outside of that though doesn't need changed. (Not saying you said this I just get where the other dude is coming from)
I of course am biased as I play a lot of Ghostface without addons. I've seen enough issues on both ends that I know it's mostly odd things obstructing or in some cases not obstructing when they should or shouldn't. As I said though just give Ghostface a subtle tell sign like a crosshair that appears when you're in the process of revealing him. At least then you'd be certain when the feature is and isn't working and it would be clear that it's center screen of your game screen / monitor.
The clip with Scott though pretty sure he had his screen centered at Ghostface's feet and not the rest of the body. The reveal zone only seems to work well when at the center of Ghostface's turso.
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@gantes said:
Yeah i truly don't get the need to put a killer like him in the game when the mechanics involved are so obviously not gonna work properly.
https://www.twitch.tv/scottjund/clip/SparklyHotPeanutEleGiggle?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time
just look at him harder guys
I see the humor in this clip but it doesn't look like Scott was perfectly centered on GF until near the end and the center was at Ghostface's legs rather than center body. Granted at 0:23 it did seem like it didn't play the reveal sound starting when it should have even if for a second.
Granted this just shows how dumb and unclear the mechanic for revealing is currently. The reveal mechanic would be fine if there was a tell on the center of your screen that appeared the longer you stared at him like a visible crosshair. Kind of like the thing that appears in a bug when Clown gases you.
Also personally while I feel like that would be a necessary Ghostface wouldn't be as successful as he currently is because people who don't know would realize it's center of your monitor position not center of your characters line of sight.
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Since Snap Out Of It for The Doctor is so lenient for survivors now could the perk A Nurse's Calling show auras with Snap Out Of It again?
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The Cannibal or The Clown. Ideally though The Cannibal because half his addons do nothing, his power is underwhelming and promotes bad habits and he's long overdue for a rework like The Doctor was. The Clown should be immediately afterwards though.
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Wouldn't surprise me if Red Forest got an overhaul next because both maps in that realm in regards to detail are underwhelming. Both maps are also massive in that realm so it would be nice to see those trimmed down and since it's just two maps instead of five I could see that realm getting looked at.
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I'd rather have all toolboxes + Addons that have generator repair speed severely reduced if not removed and replaced with a new mechanic. Games need to be more consistent with game speed so BHVR can adjust the game accordingly.
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I find the survivor role so boring that instead of doing generators I'll look for the killer and try to get them to chase me if for some reason I'm playing survivor. I don't enjoy doing generators because there's no skill or effort involved and there's just not enough to do. The most exciting part about survivor is getting chased and evading the killer. Because of this though if I'm stuck doing gens I'll generally just mess around wasting time. Can't be bothered to try and improve anymore as survivor because ranks are just handed out and I find it hard to depip even in red ranks.
This leads me to only playing SWF's or killer only which for me is primarily the killer role.
tl;dr - I waste a lot of time as survivor if I'm not getting chased.
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Only thing that needs adjusted on GF is the reveal mechanic otherwise he's good. Mostly just needs to be more clear that the center of your screen is covering him enough to reveal.
Main thing I notice playing against him is sometimes I'll randomly break him out of shroud while he's behind a wall without me knowing where he was + sometimes you can't break his shroud around certain props even though you can see him. I want to speculate it's a graphics options issue because I remember a long time ago Myers could stalk survivors behind a wall or props if it wasn't rendered on his side.
For example a barrel that doesn't appear at a certain distance and instead of not being able to stalk at all you could take a step back on low graphics settings and it would disappear and you could stalk the survivor because there wouldn't be anything hiding them. They would sit there though because they believe they're still hidden.
I just assume something similar to that is the issue with Ghostface reveal mechanic.
Also yeah I get your thread is bait but regardless I'm going to take it seriously.
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@Infinity_Bored said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/997330#Comment_997330
This is no bait and i'm talking about reworking, not nerfing.
Did all the killer mains from the steam forums invade this place?
Complaining about a killer being able to teabag really detracts from your thread to be honest and some of your points genuinely come off as bait. If you worded some of your points differently I'd probably not have jumped to that conclusion. Then again I don't think I could ever agree with a killer not being able to perform their power efficiently. Example being the TR / Stain proposal you made.
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Plague because her power hurts her Chaser Emblem iirc. I had to go out of my way to avoid using my power with her for my adept at rank 6 iirc. I only got the adept achievement because a survivor was griefing the other players.
I had plenty of games where I 4k'd with her but what finally did it was a survivor body blocking people purposely and clicking at people on the hook. Feels bad to admit that but honestly Adept should be 4k's.
Pretty much what Gantes said.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/993747#Comment_993747
This doesn't address the fact that *mori's aren't used nearly as much as people say*.
The ones who use them are the ones who basically rely on them. They'll never get passed yellow ranks anyway. At red, purple and even green ranks, you'll end up seeing mori's brought to games, and a lot of the time never being used at all.
As I said, people complaining about the mori are outright lying, exaggerating their frequency because they're butthurt that they got mori'd. THAT is the real issue. Not the mori themselves.
My major complaint is mori's ruin the quality of games. In red / purple (2 - 5 is where I hover as survivor) ranks I see about 2 every 10 or so games? However my main issue is some survivors just hide, the killer will camp or hover for the mori and everyone depips or barely gets bp because the game was boring and the killer doesn't do anything. This is obviously a player issue and I'd like to say these are isolated cases but I just want a system where killers actually play the game when a mori is used and survivors don't give up.
A game with Devour Hope for example is super fun. The killer is basically on a huge power curve and everyone knows they need to act quick. There's simple counters to it and the killer knows they can't camp because their mori can be destroyed by others so it's a juggling experience. That's the kind of thing you won't ever experience when an offering is used because there's no risk for the killer. My argument to that whole issue is I want better quality of games which is why I believe two hooks should be required.
Regarding the quantity limit change or reducing how many moris a killer has I could take or leave a change. Mori is common enough to be horded and can easily be spammed but the thing is doing so would be super boring if you did it forever that's why killers don't do this. It's basically at their whim if a mori is used. It's certainly at mine. That being said the whole issue I'll always have is how mori makes everyone play. I could honestly disregard a quantity change no matter how common they are. You can't really do anything about that without changing how you buy them.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/993720#Comment_993720
You just proved my point. No urgency to use them. Stock piling. How are mori's so "common" if they are used so sparingly?
HUGE logic hole, there.
If mori's were 2 hooks, you may as well remove them. Besides, the problem isn't the mori's, or the keys. It's people taking the game too seriously to see the fun in something. Being mori'd is awesome. I love it :D
Moris are cool but there's nothing special about them when I can just horde and spam them. Also there's nothing scary about games where you're camped just so a killer can mori you. A game with a mori should be more exciting than that. That's why I believe mori should have more requirements. It should be one of those special offerings that changes up the game to be more fun not a chore where no one gets any BP.
Let's say you had a max of 14 ebony mori's you could find in a week (2 a day) and after a couple of days after purchase the mori you purchased expired refunding your BP. After a week (Think Shrine) the mori cap would reset. This would make mori's less spammable and make them feel a bit more special.
You could argue what does this solve and we could say nothing but the ideal situation is this would
- Make Mori feel special
- Reduce unfun games
For context and yes it's all RNG I know but I pretty much find 1-2 Ebony's every 2-3 bloodwebs minimum. Pretty crazy number imo and honestly I'd prefer to just have killer addons instead of mori's on my bloodweb. To clarify I can pretty much make the BP back from my mori in a game and have another one ready for the next game.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
Keys - it should only work for the keyholder, and should take 5 seconds to open the hatch with it (both so 3 people can't get a free escape with 1 gen left, and so it can't just be used to run away from a chase).
Mori - just make them more rare. Their function is fine (I say this as a survivor main); the issue is they aren't more rare. If that's even an issue at all. Mori's are fun. I love getting mori'd :)
Realistically speaking regarding Mori's how do you make them more rare when I can just stockpile them with no urgency to use them. I quite literally have hundreds of them because I never use them and I actively avoid them on my bloodweb because they're so common. Honest opinion but making something appear less on the bloodweb isn't going to solve that problem. imo you'd have to limit how many you can have, how long you can hold mori's or both. If I wanted to I could use one every game for the next event and I'd still probably have some left over.
Bias though is mori should be two hooks on a survivor. Not hook phases because you can camp those out but actual hooks.
Keys should have more things to be used on + have a varying amount of easy puzzles to solve using them.
For example a key should have a puzzle pop up and depending on what you're opening you have either 5 or 10 seconds to quickly solve it. Basically just placing the key notches in the proper slots or something like tha.
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I was going to say Hillbilly is a weird way of saying Clown or Cannibal but if you put it like that for a map rework then sure fair enough. All the farm maps are pretty awful just in general. Needs to be less emphasis on corn and more emphasis on farm.
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Initially in the dev post it just looked like a nerf with how vaguely some things were mentioned plus how they kept mentioning doctor being annoying and unfun for survivors. Maybe I missed it but I didn't see anything they tweaked where they seemed concerned about how the killer player was enjoying himself.
That being said Doctor is in a slightly better place because he's less clunky to play.
- Shock Blast is in my opinion an overall improvement to tracking compared to the passive static field. You can use it on demand to catch survivors in bad spots instead of them knowing when to hide in a locker.
- Shock Therapy even though is still addon dependent is in a slightly better spot. The quality of life change of merging stances saves him a bit of time in chase as he doesn't lose as much ground using it. The delay before hit is bad but assuming they reduce it to something reasonable to like 2 seconds tops will be an improvement. imo the range could be slightly increased to 15% instead of a 10% increase but I'll take any buffs at this point. He can also mind game using shock therapy now by faking the shock.
- His madness effects and addons however are still bad in my opinion. He's still a very addon dependent killer so he's not going to really shift on any meta list imo but he's still going to be much better off than he was.
- The Snap Out Of It nerfs isn't so bad but imo because of this change Nurse' should work with Snap Out Of It again. You only lose 25% for missed skillchecks and it doesn't even reset when stopping to snap out of it or moving.
So overall I'd say he broke even but he's less clunky to play and needs to be a bit more active which is good for both sides. Also again the big determining factor on whether this change is good or bad is if they enable him to have a fair window to swing at a survivor he shocked at a pallet or vault. If Doc can't do that there is zero point to playing him because his madness effects are garbage unless you are new.
Also keep in mind everyone is supposedly playing with a bugged doctor where his shock isn't working as intended. I don't care what they plan to do if my first impressions is the buggy version that's how I'm going to perceive him because that's what I ended up testing in the PTB.
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My main concern with changing Ruin is not having addressed Toolboxes, Maps and yes even Mori's as those all affect how quick a game can go.
- Toolboxes need to offer other benefits other than a passive increase in speed. Such as great skillchecks being worth more the better the toolbox. With toolbox only slightly increasing repair speed at most. Other passives that don't affect gen speed would be welcome as well such as while toolbox is active a gen is silent or something along those lines. Just avoid anything that increases gen repair speed.
- Maps need to be reworked with simple M1 killers in mind so half a gen cannot be complete before they reach that side. Also some maps need to be reworked to adjust how some tiles spawn to avoid a chain of safe loops next to each other most notably on the farm maps. If this is not possible I wouldn't argue against some sort of global killer feature that teleported the killer somehow. Such as they enter a rift in the corners of the map and the exit point was always the basement which ideally would always be near center map.
- Mori's to alter game speed but in the killers favor so it's hard to really mention this when the discussion is how would we make up for Ruin being nerfed. Although I think it's fair to mention this as a concern if the above two were mentioned being maps and toolboxes.
- I'd mention keys but those can only preemptively end the game not speed it up. At the point where a key can be used the game is pretty close to over anyways or has played itself out.
Also unpopular opinion (I think?) but gen speed is fine as it is. The problem is big maps and toolboxes.
My personal bias is this Ruin rework is necessary. I don't use it because it trains survivors to hit greats and only punishes mediocre players. I can personally hit greats 7/10 times usually and I see the perk as a waste because it gets cleansed too quickly. Ruin is going to be garbage now but I see this as necessary for this game to move forward. Although BHVR's timing and lack of changing other stuff is going to hurt the game in my opinion. We'll see how it plays out though.
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@Thanatos_x said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/974689#Comment_974689
From the designer notes, "The Doctor's base movement speed is still 4.6 m/s (the "regular" movement speed for most Killers), but he can now use Shock Therapy more easily as he doesn't have to switch stances to gain access to it. So we've added a brief pause after using Shock Therapy before he can attack or use another ability."
It just says a brief pause however I've heard 3 seconds multiple times so.
You receive a massive slow penalty while using Static Blast. That's what I'm referring to in my second post my bad if I wasn't clear or made a typo.
"While charging Static Blast, The Doctor's movement is significantly reduced, and the ability has a long cooldown. The idea behind the design of Static Blast is to make it powerful as a location tool, but very difficult to use while in a chase, hence the limitations on its use. "
From my understanding Static Blast has its own animation and everything so I'm sure it's meant to warn survivors of its use.
I believe Shock Therapy is pretty much the same in terms of slowdown so it's same old same old for that part of his power.
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Also regarding what LordRegal said I also referenced the leaked notes that indicate the 3 second thing but I think you know that.
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@DocFabron said:
It may not be as bad as we think. It may take into account from the time you shock, to the time it takes to get impacted by the shock.
The cooldown is more than likely the compensation for not having to switch stances.
Regarding the first point this is what I'm hoping but I doubt it.
Right now it's...
- Change Stance
- Use Shock Therapy to Shock Survivor
- Change Back
- Hit
Now it will be
- Shock survivor
- Wait 3 seconds
- Swing
I'm really hoping the 3 seconds is when you start charging Shock Therapy and not after it hits. If it's the latter the power will be garbage. I'm referring to when you're at a pallet or vault btw otherwise I see no point to shock This is assuming the 3 second thing is legit anyways.
The cooldown for Static Blast makes no sense though because at the moment being in Therapy Mode helps build up madness with static field. Now you have to rely on being near a survivor every 60 seconds or just doing it individually per survivor which waste so much time as killer. Also going to consider the 3 second slowdown or what ever is to warn survivors he's about to use shock blast so they can go in a locker before he uses it. Madness effects aren't even worth it the only thing you really want is survivors screaming or to stun them at a vault or pallet for a hit. - Also to clarify I don't mind it having a CD but 60 seconds is quite a bit considering Madness effects aren't good.
Really hoping I'm wrong and but right now I'm feeling pretty disappointed and regretting thinking the changes would be good. I want to be wrong. Just waited so long for a Doc rework is all I had pretty high expectations.
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@Thanatos_x said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/974611#Comment_974611
"Quality of life change" lol I mean sure you don't have to switch stances now but instead you can't hit for 3 seconds, which is 2 seconds longer than stance change took. So really it's quality of survivor life change tbh
The only reason I consider it a quality of life change is because dedicated servers sometimes make the charge meter bug out and reset instead of actually changing stances. I'm still convinced this is the main reason for the change.
Overall though the other changes look bad and not only is he worse in chase (on paper) his tracking is guaranteed worse. Right now I see no positives to play Doctor at all compared to other killers. His madness effects need to be buffed to all hell and Static Blast should actually do something else in addition to what it's going to do otherwise again I see no point to the change unless BHVR genuinely just wanted to nerf him.
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My main gripe is Static Blast slows you for what ever reason and madness effects are still garbage. What purpose is there to slow you down during Static Blast? It's not like you're going to use it mid chase unless you switch targets and if you see someone you're likely to use shock therapy instead. For some reason though shock therapy (supposedly) has a 3 second delay before you can swing.
Like this whole change looks like why they changed Freddy except Doctor isn't even gettting anything good in the process aside from a single quality of life change being the stance change.
The issue isn't that Doc is annoying though it's that BHVR does a poor job introducing new players to this game. Yet in the notes they constantly brought up Doc being annoying and frustrating vs new players.
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I mean I have around 200+ mori's saved up so why not.
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@Rivyn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/972333#Comment_972333
Except you all ignore the very reason why Ruin is needed in the first place, instead falling back to 'gatekeeper emblem' and 'new player experience' as valid justification.
Personally I don't care about my emblems I'm still going to have a bad time if I'm playing an M1 killer that can't traverse the map by the time a gen pops.
Like emblems to me mean nothing when reaching Rank 1 doesn't even do anything so why should I care about rank?
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I think Exhaustion, Freddy release and DS changes were the most outrage I've seen. Surprisingly not as much complaining with the insta-heals as I expected. With these changes though I think it's the second worst series of post but imo for good reason. The reasoning for Doc changes only had survivor in mind with how it's worded and is quite disrespectful. Not even a fake "We made this change for a quality of life reason for killers"
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@Todgeweiht said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/971394#Comment_971394
How are the changes to doctor a nerf? being able to shock and hit without having to change stances seems pretty good to me. Maybe static blast could make use of an small tweak.
Being able to shock people without changing stances is a quality of life change or a potentially small nerf. Depends if it takes the same amount of time to shock and hit someone as it would to shock, switch stances and hit them. Although the range of the shock was increased I think so that's a positive.
The Shock Blast is an outright nerf looking at it. Instead of passively instilling madness onto survivors it's a 60 second CD ability that severely slows you on use for what ever reason. His tracking is going to be severely nerfed although this ability will pair nicely with Whispers. Madness debuffs aren't even good unless those get changes.
Overall it looks like a minor nerf on an already bad killer with quality of life changes. I can imagine the stance changes were done because dedicated servers made changing stances buggy.
What I care about though
Will Doctor continue to be addon dependent after this patch? That's the big one here.
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I only use Ruin on Tombstone Myers but tbh this change looks bad. If it last the whole game it could be strong in 3 gen situations and if you get in that situation it's going to be unfun for survivors even more so than it is now.
However past that it's weak unless there's a catch aside from regression on gens not being worked on. I don't believe it shouldn't be a Hex perk but I feel like on paper it's looking pretty bad. I'll have to wait for the PTB but i'm more interested in the gatekeeper changes honestly.
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I genuinely wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt and was genuinely excited but won't lie when I read the blog post I was severely disappointed.
Also, a delay when using Shock before you can attack? Seriously? This was one of the whole issues he had in the first place. Power weakened him in chase what's the point of using it? The Madness effects were weak af as it was.
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I don't DC against mori but I get it. Often a killer who uses a mori is either doing a daily or is targeting someone specifically. In which case they hover near the hook and wait for the unhook to tunnel and mori. Not worth having a short game with little BP gain quite honestly. It's less annoying to just suicide on hook if it's one of those killers. Full disclaimer obviously not every killer does that but it happens enough that I don't blame anyone for dodging a mori.
Personally I'd like mori's to be in a state where they're not hidden such as requiring two hooks before mori. Not phases on hook but actual hooks on a survivor meaning they'd have to be unhooked once and you'd have to re-hook them before getting a chance to mori them. Would discourage hook hovering and there wouldn't be a point to mori's needing to be hidden anymore because at this point I doubt BHVR completely hides them anyway so might as well go for consistency with other offerings. Each side should also get a BP reward as well for a mori. Survivor being a consolation prize and the killer for performing a mori similar to how BP is rewarded for an obsession kill.
@The_Second_Coming said:
So, I usually don't condone DCing when there's a mori. I find mori's fun, both as killer and as survivor (because unlike the overwhelming majority of sweaty betty's in this community, I know DBD is only a game)....BUT, if you bring a mori during double bloodpoints, you're either baiting DC's, or just trying to mine salt.
You're lucky they're doing it during the loading screen and not as soon as the game starts to waste your offering.
Would it matter though if a killer lost a mori? I swear I'm tripping over at least one every blood web because they're so common even as an ultra rare. I have over 200 throughout my killers just sitting there for when I Want to use them. Also for some people 200 is a pretty small amount.
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I had to resort to Insidious Bubba for this one. When I played normally once survivors realized I was going for the basement they ran to the other side of the map or in some cases DC'd on hook or as I was carrying them so the hook didn't count.
As Insidious Bubba I basically caught a group off guard that was going to group heal. I hate playing like that but the game forced me to resort to doing so. Quite a stupid challenge tbh.
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Both are pretty weak but if you plan to get either at least wait a month or so and see how the Doctor rework turns out. It's not like either killer is going anywhere anytime soon.
Doctor is great for tracking and Clown is okay at reducing the time a survivor can spend in a loop. Although with Clown he's essentially countered by throwing the pallet down earlier and running to the next nearby loop. He's quite pitiful at the moment in terms of his strengths. Doctor at least has utility and decent tracking.
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The Candyman
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Doctor and Leatherface were the two most neglected killers for a long time so I'm hoping Leatherface is the next killer to get a rework and then Clown.
Leatherface is missing addons, his chili addons don't work, his power relies on mistakes, he can't mind game with his power against smart survivors, he pretty much needs addons for his power to be effective and he has no map pressure. I'd say he's a pretty good candidate for who should get a rework next.
Clown's addons at least work even though he's weak af. Clown definitely deserves an overhaul though.
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Gen speed is fine the issue is maps being too large and toolboxes affecting gen speed too much.
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@ELECTRIK_VISION said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/947138#Comment_947138
These do sound good, I like being able to cancel if you’ve clearly missed might as well take the penalty as soon as possible
Cancelling Chainsaw Sweep early wouldn't give you a tantrum because the Cooldown exist. Apologies for the edit I'll clarify again as I probably added that last bit in when you replied.
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I'm being straight forward with my proposal but here's some basic suggestions. Nothing new here by the way.
- The Cannibal's charge meter now starts his Chainsaw Sweep when full regardless. This means you can no longer lazily hold it in place. However the longer you balance the charge between letting go and filling up the meter the faster the meter will change over time. So if you've held it for 5 seconds it will be incredibly difficult to hold it in place. This will assist in reducing camping situations but also it will stop those rare instances where Cannibal players will attempt a quick sweep and let go at 99% by accident.
- The Cannibal's movement speed is set to 110% while charging his chainsaw
- The Cannibal no longer has a movement speed penalty when cancelling Chainsaw Sweep
- The Cannibal can cancel his Chainsaw Sweep early. This does not invoke Tantrum as The Cannibal did not collide with any surfaces.
- The Cannibal's Chainsaw Sweep has its duration reset and movement speed increased when downing a survivor.
Also let's say all 5 suggestions above were added to the game. I'd also add a nerf to stop camping because in a non-camping scenario this nerf wouldn't hurt him.
- Chainsaw Sweep now has a 10 second cooldown upon use or cancellation. Cooldown begins at the end of Chainsaw Sweep on use.
You can still camp with M1 but now you need to be smart with your chainsaw plays.
Additionally here are two other buffs
- Chili addons fixed
- Missing addons added (Ultra-Rare and other missing options)