Dino7281
Dino7281
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@gatsby said:
In the past, good Killers expected 4/3ks with little resistance. They could run meta builds and on their mains and have a really dominant performance.
Now since MMR, Killers generally get 1-3ks when playing well. Playing extra sweaty doesn't result in an absolute steamroll most of the time. Personally, I think its healthier and Killers have been slowly changing their mindsets from expecting a 4k to expecting a 2k and being pleasantly surprised if they get more.
It's a painful process to change expectations, but the Devs always said the goal was 2ks. At least getting all four BBQ stacks for max points is still pretty realistic every game.
When I am way better than them, yeah I expect 4k. I had good games when I got 0k, because I saw they were good team and didn't really used gen rushing perks.
It's kinda dumb to say that good killers should expect only 2k against avarage survivors. They are better than them, so why it should be 2k?
Only thing that is changing is that killers are starting to play survivors more.
It's easier, more fun and less stressful.
Well, I just stopped playing instead for now. SBMM, Boons, killer nerfs, just ######### it.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2619171#Comment_2619171
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2619163#Comment_2619163
I cannot say that this is 100% confirmed, so do not say that you know differently, however my understanding as to why, Freddy/ Wraith and other killers were nerfed is not because they are too strong. Objectively Wraith with this best addons is still weaker then nurse with no addons. However those killers were dominating at the low ranks, 4k every game. The reason for this is those killers were extremely strong for how easy they are to play. I think it is common knowledge that the devs mainly balance around kill% right. In their mind a balanced killer majority of matches gets 2 kills 2 escapes. Well at low ranks wraith was getting a lot of 3 or 4 kills, however at the high ranks. Because killers tunnel and camp, this is artificially increasing the kill percent. Lets say you get gen rushed and get 1 kill with 1 gen left, You then camp another survivor to death. You then say this killer is weak, but the devs then look at the kill % an say, no 2 kills is balanced. I'm not staying this is a good way to balance but that is how they do it mainly.
Anyway I said both sides need to have at least incentives to play the game in a way that is more balanced if not punish them for it. genrushing may be funny the first time you do it, but by the 20th game, all you really are doing is just punishing yourself as well as the killer, and if you think that's ok, then that is a really awful mindset, (no that I'm saying you said that). I agree there needs to be a hard nerf on more or less everything in this game, survivor and killer, the gaps in strength between perks/ item/ addons is just awful.
As for your last point about swf, if they ever, punish SWF, DBD will die. Solo survivor is... just so awful. If I ever get punished simply for wanting to play with friends that may be the thing that kills this game.
I agree about SWF. It would be just super dumb to punish SWF for playing with friends... Just buff soloQ.
I definetly hate this type of balancing. I prefer balancing around top players, not noobs. Truth is Wraith was never top tier killer, mainly because he is not good at tunneling nor camping, he needs to use hit&run, which got nerfed hard with CoH. I can agree with addon nerf, but basekit nerf made him bad again. It just super bad when you whiff around loops and you know it's because if that nerf.
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Oh no... That hurts to watch
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@Sluzzy said:
You could go the entire match with Ruin still active, a perk that is really too strong on high mobility killers. Old Undying was so awful. Look at Blight with Undying the way it is, it is already almost like god mode.
Hex perks impacts the entire match, whereas boon totems do not. They help the survivor a little bit but they don't impact the game in a significant way.
We have done it many times with old undying, not really hard.
Killer have to get you away from that gen, otherwise Ruin is useless.
And if Ruin is active whole game now, that's on you. Just learn totem spawns...
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@jesterkind said:
Boons and Hexes are not the same mechanic, and shouldn't be balanced the same way.
Boons as a core mechanic are designed around being relit, and hexes are not. There are benefits from the killer's side for boons being relightable, even.
But even if that weren't the case, this is a backwards suggestion. Let's say for a second that relighting boons actually is too powerful and impactful- how is it an appropriate response to add in the same level of OP annoyance on the other side?
When everything is OP, nothing is OP. Balanced
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@Icaurs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2621070#Comment_2621070
The only reason I exclusively mention killers, is because this is a post about DS and camping/ tunnelling, which is a problem caused by killers. I have said gen rushing is toxic, taunting at the exit gate is toxic, leaving teammates to die in order to prioritize finishing gens is toxic. So no, I am not a saying survivors do no wrong, I have and will always call it out, just not on this post , as it is unrelated. As I said lets say toxic is not the right word, miserable, is a better word. Those things make the game miserable. I would rather just die then be slugged on the ground for 3 minutes. I would rather just die then be tunnelled out of a match.
My question to you is this. Do you find tunnelling, camping, and slugging fun? Not as a survivor, but as a killer. Now I agree there a certain situations where those things are acceptable. , such as once the exit gates are powered, I believe anything goes, but in general no. So when you camp (ect), are you actually enjoying yourself? Do you honestly say "great game tones of fun." Because I'll say it, as a survivor the first time 3 generators go in 80 seconds its funny and exciting and I laughed. But on the 10th match, the 20th, the 50th and so on, you realise it isn't. Sure all survivors on different gens may be the best way to play, but it is not a fun way, for killers or survivors. The same however goes for killers, sure camping and tunnelling may optimally be the best way, but seriously it is not fun. For the survivor or the killer. Do you agree with that? If so maybe you need to stop viewing this game as a competitive game, I don't and I have more fun just practicing with my power and not caring whether I win or lose then camping /tunnelling, now you cay if I don't care if I win, why do I hate tunnelling so much? Because it robs the survivor of the the thing you actually play for (the chase). I play survivor for the enjoyment of being chased. If you don't enjoy camping (ect) and only do it out of necessity, maybe you just shouldn't play killer. Seriously if you don't find camping (ect) fun (because I Don't) why are you even playing killer? What is your idea of an enjoyable match.
Lastly I never said tunnelling and camping is some unbeatable strategy. I may not play with some (elite squad) I just play with a few friends trying to have a fun time. All we do is just rush generators and if needed, trade places with Borrowed time. 3 survivors escape, easy. It's not hard, but it's not fun,.
Well, I rarely had to tunnel, or camp. I use slugging a lot tho and yeah that is fun. Slugging builds are actually more fun than normal game.
As before when someone tries to annoy me with BT protective hit, I am gonna wait. Now because he wanted to do annoying #########, I am supposed to be the one that is ruining "fun" of survivors? If I hook him again, it's tunneling, if I leave it's slugging...
When I see someone do 3-gen in 80 seconds I am gonna get serious. If they try, I will too, that's fair. Why should survivors be only side having "fun". Losing game with 3 hooks total is really not fun. Tunneling 1 survivor and than playing against 3 is quite a lot of fun. I am not saying it's fun for survivors, but you don't care about killers having fun, why should we care about survivors?
Well, I lately have a break from dbd, because it was just never fun to play as a killer... SBMM, boons, nerfs kinda ######### it. Let's see if new killer will be good enough for me to come back.
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@BenihimeWrath said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2618010#Comment_2618010
Theoretically there is a fraction of a second between a survivor releasing hold on a generator and regression from Ruin engaging in which a killer can damage the generator with pop. But the generator would basically have to be 99.9% for a survivor to greed that hard.
Damn, I really want to try that in custom...
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@Icaurs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2618004#Comment_2618004
I just.... please actually read my post. Don't just respond.
I agreed with you on circle of healing.. I don't know why you keep bringing it up.
Both sides have nuclear option and tactics, why is it toxic? Because as I said it is not fun. I play DBD to have fun, if you want to play competitively then we have different goals for the game. I don't want to hear, SWF is makes the game unfun or 4 flashlights clicking is unfun, or I keep getting bullied and only get 1 hook, (i'm not saying you said this,) well guess what that's what a completive game is. Slugging, tunnelling, may be competitively a good strategy, but it is not fun. Maybe you want the game to be 4 survivors with the 4 same perks and the 3 viable killers with 4 perks, But I don't,
As for the twins/ oni, yeah twins would be far worse without slugging, that is what I call a poorly designed killer. That is why player disconnect constantly or kill themselves on hook against twins so much, not that they are too strong, but the chase, is the part of DBD that players want, and they just break that.
As for your last point, I actually said there are situations where tunnelling/ camping is acceptable. If a player taunts, if a player body blocks, at the end when all generators are finished I believe anything should go to ensure as many kills as possible.
My last post I outlined why camping/ tunnelling/ slugging is bad for the game, if the devs are not going to punish killers for doing this, then at least we need are proper methods to stop this from happening. Which is why D strike needs to be buffed, which the point of my original post. If not then I don't know what you are doing in DBD. When you play DBD and the killer stands in front of the hook for 3 minutes, or a nurse slugs everyone until they bleed out. Or you as the killer get 1 kill but only like 2 hooks, you say great game lots of fun. Because I don't, this is a massive issue that needs to be addressed. Before you or anyone says (but survivors genrush) I say yes, and there needs to be a punishment for that as well. Otherwise if anyone defends camping/ slugging or tunnelling, because anything goes then as a player you have to support genrushing.
We just have different opinions on what toxic means.
You think that killers trying to win is toxic. What is interesting you mention only killers to be toxic... Both sides can do it, but you think it is toxic just because you don't like to do it.
I don't think that is toxic in every case. It's kinda dumb say camping / slugging / tunneling is toxic overall. There are situations where it is best thing that killer can do.
It's different if that killer is doing it just to torture survivors, but that is quite rare in my games and my squad know how to deal with it. There are lot of perks how to deal with camping / slugging / tunneling and there is playstyle how to play against it.
Of course it's way harder to deal with it as soloQ, but that is just issue of soloQ that needs to be buffed.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2618024#Comment_2618024
You would see my point if survivors can use something as stacking them. Sprint Burst and Dead Hard in one chase.
Healing speed perks? Second chance perks? Gen speed perks?
Those stack...
So yeah, no point found...
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2618010#Comment_2618010
I've seen killers after finally removing Undying and Ruin after the game has already been won, still have POP which is overkill.
But that doesn't stack. They can't use both at the same time...
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Soooo can we disable second chance perk stacking too? That would be nice
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2617992#Comment_2617992
Please explain POP, Undying, Ruin, Tinkerer. Solos can't overcome that. It's broken.
Those don't stack... Can you use Pop when Ruin is active?
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@Icaurs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2616892#Comment_2616892
No you're right, lets have every match of DBD the killer will slug, tunnel and camp because not toxic right. Except it's miserable experience for all players, not just the one on the hook. Bubba stands in front of the hook all match. Not toxic, and if you get slugged off hook, your own fault for getting hooked, not toxic. Killer focus you out of the match, not toxic. Nurse with infectious fright, slugs the entire match? not toxic. Lets say toxic is the wrong word, more like miserable. Ok, so now Dstrike is mandatory, unbreakable is mandatory, Borrowed time is mandatory. This does not sound like a fun healthy game.
There are exceptions when I can accept camping/ slugging, tunnelling, mainly when the last gen is finished, I say anything goes to escape/ kill. As for COH, they need to make it that the self healing speed caps at 50% healing speed as a starting point.
Also I do give killers the option to switch, to the point that I will often trade myself for my teammates if we need more time finish the gens. I don't care about winning, I care about how I win, and sitting on the hook for 3 minutes while my teammates hold M1 because the killer returns to the hook every 30 seconds does not sound like a fun game.
CoH will be issue as long everyone can self-heal with same speed as med-kit without valid counter-play.
Both sides have nuclear option and tactics, why is it toxic just because they want to win? There is counter-play to all of that.
Slugging is toxic? Oni and Twins would be terrible without slugging.
Survivor is trying to block me with BT, so I wait and down him, so if I hook him again, it's "tunneling", if I leave him it's slugging and both are in your opinion toxic, so because he wanted to annoy me even tho I wanted to go after unhooking person, I am toxic? Interesting
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@vacaman said:
Somehow i allways end up tunneling 4 different survivors in the same game in end game chat
Damn, teach me master.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2617014#Comment_2617014
It's not a waste of your time if you're doing it properly, at least outside of a few specific totem placements that kind of are too much of a time investment. As I've said before, snuffing totems is a downtime action- CoH does nothing in chase and Shadow Step can be played around in chase, so you don't need to break chase to go snuff the totem, you do it after you get a down/hook. Or maybe you don't- maybe you'd get more pressure by doing something else. Pick your moment, don't feel like you have to do it as soon as you're aware of it.
As for how it's not broken, it's because it's only in a specific area. They have to go somewhere that may be out of position in order to use it, that's information you can play around.
The only thing you've said that I agree with is that survivors being able to just go somewhere else and place a boon after it's already been set, I'd support some kind of cooldown before you can re-place it elsewhere or something. A boon should be slightly more of an investment than it currently is.
Do people think that "counterplay" must always mean "completely disables the thing in question", or something? Of course it's counterplay, it's the thing you do to answer the perk being there.
I didn't say it's not counterplay, I said it's pointless. How is breaking totem "completely disables the thing in question"? It just limits maximum amount of use and gives killer motivation to search for it. It would still be really good perk.
Shadowstep is not really an issue for me, unless used with map offering and SWF tho, that is supper annoying.
My problem is CoH.
Snuffing is a downtime action. It's worth to do only when you actually have to do only that animation -> next to hooked survivor, or gen.
I often hear it, but I know that I just don't have time to go around wall etc. to snuff it, multilayer maps are even worse for it.
Tactic I use most, find totem -> finish gen that is close to it -> use boon. When there is not gen nearby killer doesn't get any extra value from going there, so it actually often waste his time more than mine. What a nice counter-play he has against it...
Best counter-play against CoH is to tunnel, I believe that's main reason why you see so many killers tunnel lately and so many survivors crying because of it. Well, SBMM is not helping too...
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2616991#Comment_2616991
My argument is not just that it was designed that way, my argument is that it was designed that way because designing it that way has more benefits. You, as the killer, want the survivors to be wasting time blessing totems over and over again, that's part of how they're supposed to function. It's part of the counterplay. That's why it would be terrible from the killer's perspective- you want to know where the survivors are and you want them to be doing anything but generators to slow down the game. That's part of the point.
CoH isn't broken, in my opinion. CoH exposes problems with the rest of the game- you don't need CoH to get broken fast healing speeds, that's just the easiest way of doing it. I don't think it should be nerfed directly, I think healing speeds in general should be looked at and that self healing should be capped.
The part that makes CoH broken imo is that it's basically free perks for other survivors. It would be fine, if it was only for you, but it's not. Survivors have basically 23 perks total whenever you have boon active. The fact that you don't need anyone else to heal is just so good and it's 16 second heal, you just gave everyone infinite medkits. How is that not broken?
I don't want them just waste time blessing on same totem over and over again, because it means that I had to waste my time too and my time is little bit different as solo player vs 1 of 4 players.
The information doesn't really help me when they can change boon location and only 1 survivor is doing boon, rest is doing gens. It's not like I can see their aura, yay I know they are somewhere on this part of the map, it doesn't do anything, because I don't know it for sure, I don't know where exactly, I don't know how many. I would rather have them waste time actually healing normally -> two players, than everyone self-healing while everyone else can do gens.
It's not really good counterplay, it's kinda pointless counterplay. Only counter-play it does have that boon totems are removed when that survivor dies, so tunnel is best option... Also some killers are good against some boon totems, Only killer that is good against both is Plague.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2616966#Comment_2616966
So, two things here- first, I am not saying the Hex system is without flaws. In fact, I'm on record saying that I think one of the biggest necessary fixes in DBD right now is totem spawns, no survivor should ever spawn in sight of/in the same tile as a totem, whether it's lit or dull. There are also some totem spawns that can be problematic from the perspective of the killer snuffing it when it's blessed, and that should be fixed too. Hexes are gone too quickly, we agree on that- I'm just taking the mechanics as concepts here.
Which leads me to the second thing: I do think that the specific boon perks could do with tweaking. I think self healing should be capped in general, and while Shadow Step is easily the more balanced of the two perks (you're right that the information you listed is crucial, but Shadow Step only masks one of those), it could cause some issues in the long run and needs close monitoring.
The post was just about boons being blessable over and over, which is what I was responding to.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2616964#Comment_2616964
You keep bringing up Inner Healing in these conversations, multiple times doing it directly to me, and my answer is always the same: That perk is not very good, specifically because of that requirement. It's already a weak healing perk, most of them are stronger than Inner Healing if you use them right.
Also, it would be terrible if the totem was destroyed for Boons from the killer's perspective. Not just from the survivor's perspective.
How so? NOED and Plaything will work less? They already are worse because of boon totems, so it wouldn't change much.
I know I have said it to you several times and I disagree that Inner Healing is not good perk, if you know totem spawns.
Your main argument is usually that "it's just how that perks were designed." Which I think is not really valid at any point as an argument for a balancing issue.
Lot of killers and perks were design in some way and got changed. It just doesn't mean anything.
CoH is broken atm and need to be changed. I believe that breaking totems would be good start and way better option than just nerfing that effect. Nerfing effect will make it boring, I would rather have high risk high reward. Right now it's low risk high rewad...
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@coolmacc said:
to this day a broken and cheap perk than turns a 1k into an easy 3/4K with no downsides that simple
no downsides?
You think that playing whole game without a perk is not a downside? Interesting...
NOED is not an issue
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@jesterkind said:
It makes perfect sense- they're not the same mechanic, they're not designed to do the same thing, and so they're not designed with the same downsides.
A hex perk is high impact and effects the core objective- generators, or shortening chases. (Hypothetically. I know some of them suck, but that's a problem with those perks more than anything else.) It's set immediately and, barring ones that need to gain tokens, is in effect immediately. The idea behind hexes is that survivors do need to break them or they're at a serious disadvantage.
Boons, however, have to be blessed actively by survivors, do not affect the core objective, and are only effective in a radius, not map-wide. From the killer perspective, it's supposed to work like this: A survivor finds a totem in an optimal spot, and is generally near that area to make use of it. You chase them, you down them, and then you snuff the totem- meaning that if they want to make use of their perk again, they have to not be on generators and they have to be in a spot the killer knows they want to be in.
You don't want boons to be breakable, trust me. Either they're single-use and nobody runs them, or the totem is broken when it's snuffed and that means survivors go scurrying off like rats into a dark corner of the map instead of wasting their time in one area where you can interrupt them.
Hmm, it's interesting that it would be terrible if totem is destroyed for Boon totems, but perks like Clairvoyance or Inner Healing are fine with that system...
I am really not gonna trust you on this one... I would still use it, because I used Inner Healing and CoH would be still way better than it even if killer could destroy boon totem.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615542#Comment_2615542
"It doesn't alter game in any way"
!??! You are being so dishonest right now, on purpose. You know it does.
Calling out killer location on voice chat without needing to equip any perk to know where Killer is at all times?
Coordinating repairs based on that information?
Are you serious. OH my god what Have I walked into in this game.
I don't think you understand what I mean "alter game".
That means changing data / files. Like Insta heal, infinite sprint burst etc.
What you call "cheating" can be done just by playing in one room and talk... Do they get advantage by it compare to soloQ? Yeah, to some extent, but it's not really cheating.
I think game should be balanced around shared information for survivors and aura perks can be used as training wheels for survivors. It's not that easy to make accurate calls and most survivors I played with on official discord were not able to do it.
They just need to buff soloQ and give them info that is easy to share for SWF.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615542#Comment_2615542
So the devs say it's not cheating to be in discord in a 3 or 4 man SWF and call out killer location and coordinate everything?
Wow. I see what type of community I've wandered into. I'll show myself out before the devs give me any more grief.
What's the point of Perks that give you Killer aura location for 5 seconds, when you can just skip it and callout Killer location, coordination, etc... in discord voice chat. Yeah okay. They know it's cheating, but will sell their souls to avoid a problem.
I've stepped into a community I don't want to be a part of. Peace.
Well, I don't think it is cheating, so bye...
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2613391#Comment_2613391
Yes I agree punish them for using discord to get a upper hand on a player who is by himself without any kind of help what so ever.......yes I am half joking here....there needs to be a fix to SWFs that makes everyone happy.....right now SWFs are the real thorn in everyone's sides.
There is no way how to do it.
If they just nerfed only SWF, it would be super dumb. It would cost them lot of players -> money.
Best way imo is buff soloQ, so gap between soloQ and SWF is smaller, then you can make some changes.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615698#Comment_2615698
I was pretty generous with those numbers to exaggerate my point. At high rank DBD most games if not all involve tunnelling to a certain degree. Ask any experienced killer and they will tell you they need to tunnel to win against top survivors. If killers aren't tunnelling and are still winning in your matches, then you or your teammates are objectively bad. with SBM it has now become so bad D strike is now mandatory. What a lot of killers will do is camp or tunnel one survivor to death and hope they die before the last gen so they only have to pressure 3 people. I sympathise with killer mains, I really do, and I struggle to be motivated to paly killer, however tunnelling, camping and slugging is toxic. It's the same as 4 survivors running 4 speed toolboxes or deliberately letting teammates die simply so the killer gets less points. It is really bad for the game and needs to be discouraged. Just because something is effective or (necessary) does not mean its good. Also slugging somebody of hook is tunnelling, objectively, your dying state is a health bar, the killer is decreasing your health bar while on the ground. that is still targeting them, (tunnelling.) As for your point with BT, yeah I agree if you taunt with BT or d strike then the killer isn't at fault, but I don't really know what to do about that, and that is a separate issue for a different discussion.
I am pretty confident in being high MMR killer, I usually didn't have to use tunneling, but that just changed since CoH. That is just cheap way of having effect as 4x med-kits. Tunneling is just best way how to deal with CoH / 4x medkits.
I have never said killers win against us, it's rare to get more than 1 dead with my squad. We don't really babysit killers, so we can't be mad when they try to win too. It's just rare to see actual tunneling, most killer are willing to switch if you give them that option. Camping from first hook is even more rare, I really don't count camping when all gens are done, or proxy-camping that is valid too, slugging is really good way how to get pressure, if you think it is toxic and killers should not use it, then you should question your own skill instead...
Slugging is not toxic, camping is not toxic, tunneling is not toxic. You have no idea how toxic looks like...
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@Kurri said:
None, this game is great at attracting new players, it's current issue is keeping players.
DBD is one of the least noob friendly games I have ever played...
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Less grind, that is main issue imo and reason why most of my friends stopped playing this game.
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@Gwinty said:
Hex: Ruin can get a rework in my opinion but those complains about Tinkerer...
Seriously that thing is a fine and good perk. Survivors can know about Tinkerer and act acordingly. It only triggers when survivors do something and allows the Killer to react. That perk is no problem at all...or do you want old Tinkerer back?
"Add-ons that affect the charge time of your Power are 5/10/15 % more effective."
Hey that version seems quite fun to use. So sure...
Tinkerer is one of the perks better against soloQ than SWF.
As long one survivor finds out that you have Tinkerer, it's just not that good when you expect it.
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@RenRen said:
It's also not fun to deal with games that end super fast cause gens got done really quick, It's not fun to see survivors, T-bag and Click, It's not fun to see the same perks over and over again. It's not a only survivors are suffering it's everyone suffering but SWF's. I'm not saying SWF's should be nerfed, I honestly want solo Q and killers to be buffed to a level where they can play against and as equal as a SWF.
I mean, he just said he was playing SWF using map offering...
I have feeling that was not about "toxic" killers.
How survivors act changes how killer acts, it's that simple.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615678#Comment_2615678
I've had killers say they tunneled and camped because they didn't like the map offering. Its not always them having no better option. They often do it just to be toxic. The point is though it needs to stop and until killer players see a good enough reason not to do it then its going to keep happening. I used to play DBD all the time with my friends. Now we play it maybe once a month because were sick of toxic killers ruining this game. The way many killers play this game really does discourage survivor players from playing it. I know first hand this is true because I have experienced it with people I play the game with. If tunneling was addressed in a way that really made killers stop doing it me and my friends would probably play a lot more often than we do now and I think more people would play too.
Oh, you used map offering and are surprised killer didn't like it?
I have feeling you faced tunneling not because those killers were toxic, but because you deserved it.
If you don't play nice, why should killer do it?
The way many survivors play this game really does discourage killer players from playing it. I know first hand this is true because I have experienced it while playing as a killer.
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@Sluzzy said:
First match of the day. BBQ, Ruin, Undying, and the extremely busted Tinkerer.
So I almost had a Gen almost completed and the Blight shows up from nowhere undetectable. I got down. Before I go back and finish the gen, one was on a hook and another slugged. The Blight shows up again because of tinkerer.
And killers want to complain about Boons and SWF? All I have to say is killers have some extremely busted things that need nerfing.
I'm already quitting for the night because there is no chance against the killer meta. Experienced killers with training wheels is busted. Rework tinkerer, nerf Blight, nerf Ruin. It's not fun.
First match of the day. Dead Hard, DS, Unbreakable, and the extremely busted Borrowed Time.
So I almost had a survivor killed and the another survivor shows up from nowhere and take protective hits. I lost that survivor. Before I find him again and kill him, two gens were done and another was over 90%. The another survivor shows and take more protective hits.
And survivors want to complain about Ruin and Tinkerer? All I have to say is survivors have some extremely busted things that need nerfing.
I'm already quitting for the night because there is no chance against the survivor meta. Experienced survivors with second chance perks are busted. Rework Dead Hard, nerf Unbreakable, nerf SWF. It's not fun.
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@Hunter_Main_322 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615687#Comment_2615687
he will not stop tunneling because of this
They usually do...
It doesn't matter even when they don't stop anyway. It just gives that survivor time to get into another loop and waste more time.
Just because killer doesn't stop doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, it's best way how to deal with tunneling.
I don't actually mind when I am the one being tunneled, I love to chase with killers and I don't care if I die.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615659#Comment_2615659
The issue isn't that I'm not getting tunnelled I am A LOT. lets say 1/10 games I miss the skill check. 2/10 the killer slugs. 2/10 the killer is nurse/ blight or spirit, high mobility incredibly fast downing speed making the perk have far less value. 1/10 games after I land the DS is screw up or get genuinely outplayed and go down fairly quickly after the stun. Does those numbers seem fair? 6/10 games I do not feel like the killer the is properly punished for tunnelling. This takes up an entire perk slot just to punish a playstyle that is already toxic. I know that tunnelling already punishes the killer by rewarding few points and lets say in most cases your teammates do the objective and 3 escape. All that means is is not only does nobody win as the person who dies get nothing and the people who did the objective won't pip in I believe silver onwards with zero benevolence and zero chase. But I still am miserable even if I help my teamates escape As for the bleedout point, I would make it the perk works by stunning the killer when they hit the survivor and giving the survivor the mettle of man effect.
"Does those numbers seem fair?"
Well, those numbers are made from nothing...
I can say we face actual tunneling in like 1 of 10 games. So based on that it's fine?
You have perks and tactics that just results in tunneling being best option for a killer -> looking at CoH.
There is usually reason why killer is tunneling, or it's not actual tunneling at all.
If a killer doesn't have any better option other than leave that survivor, it's not tunneling.
If that killer just downed you and left, it's not tunneling.
If you tried to get BT hit with body-blocking killer and he waits 12 seconds, it's not tunneling.
I always go for protective hits when killer is chasing someone on dead hook, I even let them down me if needed.
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If you see killer is chasing survivor on dead hook, always try to body-block and get protective hits.
I even let killer down me if needed, unless I am on dead hook too...
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615647#Comment_2615647
We can't kill the killer (we should be able to though) and the only way they get removed from the match is if we escape or all die. We really can't do that much to interrupt the killer's fun compared to what they can do to us. Also its hard to run from the killer when there are no pallets nearby. I literally had nowhere to go the last time this happened to me and the pallets that could've been there were already used. Besides it doesn't matter when the killer is already right behind you right off the hook. This has to stop and it has to stop now.
"We really can't do that much to interrupt the killer's fun"
You really think this is true? Yeah, I really disagree about that, I can torture killer way more than survivors, like what is worst that killer can do, let someone bleed out on ground?
Thing is, unless I see a video, I just always consider it wasn't tunneling, because most players I have played so far thought that almost everything was tunneling :D
It's not tunneling when you are not trying to stop it, because killer just doesn't see better option at that time. Why should killer leave him just because that survivor was on hook before?
I have had games where I killed someone with 3 hooks total and I didn't consider that tunneling, he was just unlucky and all other survivors played hide and seek...
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@ThiccBudhha said:
Not going to lie, the survivor rule book was a better read.
You have read all 8672 rules?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615655#Comment_2615655
Crossplay off means it's only Xbox One. Not even the Series X counts, apparently.
I'm not surprised, I'm merely saying it's entirely possible to ruin somebody's day repeatedly, but you said it isn't bannable because it can't happen often.
Yeah, you are still not looking for a specific player on purpose.
Playing by match-making is different than dodging lobbies to search for one player.
How survivors act changes how killer acts, it's simple. If someone wants my attention, I will give them my attention.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2611627#Comment_2611627
Untrue. If Decisive strike was designed to be purely anti tunnel then
1 It should have 2 uses, why should it be disabled if used, if the killer is hit with Decisive, they won't go oh no I tunnelled, they say great now I can freely tunnel this guy.
2 the perk should only be disabled if a gen is touched or if a player heals (ect) why do killers still have the option to down a player and wait out the timer, old DS, sure slugging was a means of countering, but slugging now is simply abusing an already weak perk..
3 Decisive should not have a skill check or at least should not be affected by perks/addons(ect) that effect skill checks. Why do I only have a chance of escaping. I know its easy to hit the skill check but I do miss it occasionally and when I do, not only I suffer but my whole team suffers because of it. Killers even have a means of countering Decisive, unnerving presence/ enduring, clowns gas. This perk is supposed to stop killers from playing an unfun playstyle and yet have plenty of ways of countering it.
Lets be real the rework to Decisive strike was rushed and now the perk only really works if the killer is standing in front of the hook and chooses to pick them up immediately. Even if they do depending on the killer Decisive strike is not a big deal, especially high mobility killers such as nurse and Blight.
Old Decisive may have been strong but at least it made killers fear tunnelling. Unlike now where killers have little fear of the perk. Please bring back Old Decisive (Not original Decisive ) to return the game back to when tunnelling was really punishing.
I actually got value from DS way more since nerf, just because killers don't respect it that much, unless you make it super obvious that you have DS...
DS is not weak at all and you really don't wanna make it infinite duration on ground, I would let you bleed out...
I wouldn't mind bigger skill check.
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@deckyr said:
honestly i wouldn't mind if the current version of ds has an unlimited timer on it
it'd be funny if a survivor threw by not doing gens for 4 minutes because they wanted to stun me for 5 seconds
Yeah, I would let you bleed out on ground whenever I will think you have DS...
So, I don't think you want this. Even that minute when killer waits can be annoying, when you actually don't play DS.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615651#Comment_2615651
I'm aware that it lessens the pool and the restrictions.
So why are you suprised that you play against same players more often?
Funny is that I don't think it actually means that you play only against console players. Microsoft store DBD counts as a "console" right? I know I have had chat with some players that had console symbol and cheaters can act like console too.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615644#Comment_2615644
I literally see the same groups every single day.
Like, I only match against one or two 4-man's when I play Pinhead or Blight. Consistently. Only two. Every day.
It's because you have cross-play off.
Cross-play off doesn't mean you play only with console / PC, you play only with console / PC that also have cross-play off, so way less players, so you have higher chance to play against same players than normal players with cross-play on have.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615626#Comment_2615626
So if I make a note of one Survivor, and repeatedly tunnel them out first it's fine?
He is not searching for him, so yeah.
It's just super low chance to play against same player several times, unless you try to do it by constaly dodging lobbies and searching for him. That is an issue.
When he randomly plays against one player like twice in one month and decides to tunnel him? not really an issue imo.
Just don't be toxic and you are fine, it's that simple. It's quite rare for me to deal with actual tunneling, or camping from first hook. I think either those players that see it often have someone toxic in their SWF group that pissed off a killer, or it's low MMR thing.
Also big issue imo is that most survivors don't know how tunneling / camping actually looks, nor understand why it can happen from killer's POV. For most, it's just any excuse why they lost that game.
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@Yamaoka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615582#Comment_2615582
Someone posted them on page 1 of this thread. The list contains cenobite so all the killrate-% were affected by MMR. Cenobite was completely new at the time of those stats so he had the highest killrate at high-50s if I remember correctly. I wonder if the killrates dropped even further in the meantime as the MMR wasn't active for too long at the time that data was released.
Oh, alright. I thought that you have something new.
Yeah, I have seen it. Problem is that kill rates are boosted, because even bad killers can get 1 kill from camping, so over 50% just doesn't mean it's balanced by any means.
I have never liked balancing by big data, it's just not that simple.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615620#Comment_2615620
I've seen a few cheaters with Crossplay off myself.
Not an enjoyable experience, that's for sure.
I don't really care about cheaters that just wanna troll.
But I have played against cheaters that tried to hide it, which results in just unfair game that can ruin experience of a killer even more.
And worst are cheaters that are able to survive end game collapse and hold you hostage... That's the biggest issue
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615618#Comment_2615618
That's the issue.
Stream sniping is insanely hard to prove. Which is why this specific rule is in place. It catches all of them in one net.
Also, this wouldn't be random. The OP described a situation where a Survivor would do something they didn't like, then in a new match sometime down the road, they would take out their frustration from the previous match by ensuring the Survivor did not get to enjoy the current match. Does that not seem problematic?
Not really. He is not doing anything to actually play against him, it's random by match-making. That is way different than players that actually are looking for a specific player to ruin their games, but both are hard to prove, so I doubt anyone was ever banned for this.
For me it's actually super rare to remember someone, they had to piss me off a lot, or they had to be really good / nice.
He is just killing him, it's not like he is letting him bleed out on ground, or block somewhere and just waste as much of his time as possible. He just decided to tunnel one survivor, nothing new.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615611#Comment_2615611
It's against the rules and it's dishonorable, I'd never snitch on another Survivor unless they were cheating or exploiting ect ect.
One of those is opinion, the other isn't. Whether or not it's enforced is different.
I mean, I prefer this way more over 30 minutes hide and seek with last two survivors, but everyone has different style...
I have snitched a lot and I always try to donate items to get hatch.
I don't really care it's against rules, I have seen too many cheaters for that to worry about.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615592#Comment_2615592
No, it isn't. It might encompass that, but this rule has been in place for a long time.
streamsniping isn't even reportable either.
The OP admitted that if a Survivor did something they didn't like in a previous match, they would actively and deliberately seek them out and make sure they died first.
That's pretty spot on to what this rule is about. Deliberately seeking someone out in order to ruin their experience.
You are completely ignoring word "repeatedly"
You think tunneling random guy is against rules, but stream sniping survivors / killers just to kill them / break their streaks is fine?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615594#Comment_2615594
More like snitches get hatchets...
If someone sells out their team, I'm gonna kill their team, don't get me wrong, but they are also totally dying too.
Nooo, you are mean...
I always have fun when there are 2 survivors left I give survivor I down first an option to snitch on other survivor unless they pissed me off during game.
They snitch quite often...
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@GuyFawx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615599#Comment_2615599
Granted i realize they are over powered atm but them simply disappearing from the match because the player that cast them leaves i feel is an oversight.
Well, seems like tunneling is even better counter-play to boon totems than I thought.
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@jajay119 said:
I've encountered a lot of killers like this who don't start playing till 2/3 gens are done as sort of a hard mode.
Those are rookie numbers...
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I wouldn't touch gen speed, mainly it's just boring enough already.
Spawns are bigger issue imo and survivors should always spawn together.
I think buffing base reggression would help a lot too and make some slow-down perks more viable.
Some killers will always tunnel and some survivors will never learn how to prevent it, or learn what tunneling actually is.
Problem is that lately killers that normally wouldn't do it are kinda forced to do it, because Hit&run just doesn't work anymore and most killers are just not good enough to be able commit on each chase and would lose game normally.
So unless you play top 3 killer, or exposed killer, tunneling is just your best option now.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615509#Comment_2615509
Cool motive, still breaking the rules.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/VRL4RUSIUF8W/reportable-png.png
"Working with the opposite team to gain an advantage or grief teammates"
Yeah, I have broken this rule so many times...
Snitches get hatches