Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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you could run overcharge. people that gen tap might miss skill-check. Other than that, don't kick gens if you think they'll be gen tapped.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
People are complaining about SWFs but how many teams are that strong? How many times you are going against strong teams like that. Ayrun and his team is probably one of the best teams in DbD and it's really hard to beat them but i don't think most of SWF teams are problematic or not unbeatable. You can win most of games without issues.
And the most important question: Should DbD be balanced around teams like that or not? What is your thoughts?
the point is that killer should not queue up into an unwinnable match because they are playing killer incapable of winning regardless of how well they play. yes I do agree the game for killer should be balanced around SWF. there is also should not be this giant gap between solo survivor and swf survivor in term of action speed efficiency like 2x faster gens and 2x faster healing.
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too little range. if It had 20-24 radius with no other negative changes. I would likely use it because I really like the perk conceptually. I have tried using it in a lot killer builds but i just do not hit anyone with it in regular gameplay.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603889#Comment_3603889
Oni's power is time limited and he has a rough early game, Nurse does not have either of those things... Makes a big difference.
Like honestly just ask yourself if Oni had his power up 100% do you really think he would not be the strongest killer in the game?
if Oni had his power up 100% do you really think he would not be the strongest killer in the game?
not really. i think both nurse, blight with best add-on's and chucky are superior to Oni with perma ability. I do agree he would be top-killer though.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603539#Comment_3603539
Arguably Oni has the strongest power in the game. But some say so others so.
Oni would be nurse-level if he had strongest power in the game
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I don't think dynamic power recharge rate is good because when a player is not applying pressure, they're losing more so their cooldown is worse. When player is excelling at applying pressure, he will have shorter cooldown and therefore have more potencial chances to apply pressure. This is lose-more or win-more as mechanic with recharge rate. Recharge-rates should be balanced off some static number.
dynamic power recharge-rate works for Oni because his entire design is exactly about snowballing and winning more or losing more therefore being starved. The only issue with current concept of Oni is that Oni feels starved when he uses his power correctly and has no power at all if he gets no hits. Against strong teams, there is no point where you feel that you are feasting. It is either neutral or starving. The reason why I think it feels like that way is that -7 second penalty for putting survivors in the dying state because it drains a lot of his power gauge for successfully applying pressure. It makes Oni feel obliged to proxy-camp with demon fury rather aggressively pursue chases vs gen-rushing survivors resulting a reduction in his fun factor.
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If i wanted a buff for huntress, it would be faster wind-up. Currently huntress has base-wind up 1.25 and has to charge to 3 seconds. It would be nice if they changed this to be faster such as 0.75-2.5. since they gave trickster 115%, i can see huntress becoming 115%.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
They've said theyre gonna change his throw speed, while I hope they do add back the ramp up mechanic it's probably not gonna happen since it was also tied to recoil and movement speed reduction which is gone.
what about add-on's? are they going least improve iri photocard to ptb levels and make fizz soda/autograph do something meaningful?
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I just wish they removed the immunity to debuff on obsession so all 4 survivors affected.
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deathslinger in development was meant to be a killer with a gun. he got weakened. they won't add hitscan ranged weapons. too little inter-play for the survivor. not fun to vs. doesn't work for dbd.
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
The current BBQ is quite a mediocre perk in terms of its design and is currently in contention with another perk with similar design to it. This is not good, because there will be a time where this perk may get overshadowed by one that will end up significantly better than it.
This is why I want to make a suggestion that makes this perk appealing to run for itself while giving players a new playstyle and challenge to deal with:
Barbecue & Chili
After hooking a Survivor, the auras of all other Survivors past 32 meters are revealed to you for 3/4/5 seconds. If the Survivor you hook is the Obsession, you gain the following benefits:
- The aura reveal of all other Survivors is doubled in duration.
- You gain a stack-able 12.5% bonus Bloodpoints at the end of the Trial, up to 100%.
Once the Obsession is hooked, another Survivor becomes the Obsession. Survivors cannot become the Obsession again until all Survivors have been cycled through at least once, or unless a Survivor perk transfers the Obsession state to them.
Reasons
- This would make the perk a much more appealing perk thanks to its returning utility by giving bonus Bloodpoints to Killers. There is no reason not to re-add the bonus since it's just Bloodpoints, they don't do anything but help progressing through the Bloodweb in a positive manner.
- This would make the perk more interesting and fun for both sides since it incentivizes going for other Survivors on a constant basis and returns the anti-tunneling aspect of the perk.
- This would add a challenge to the Killer to try and earn 8 different stacks of this perk in order to get the maximum reward possible, which increases the potential for fun.
they already said that they do not want perks to be selected on other "bloodpoint" merit. Both BBQ and Prove thyself bloodpoint bonuses were removed as a result.
You should want to not tunnel with 0 perks. Not anti-tunnel because perk says to not tunnel.
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I am pretty sure that protection hit on endurance already applies broken.
the perk is bad because you do not get a consistent benefit for running the perk. the killer has no control over survivors taking protection hits. killer only have 4 perk slots and wasting perk slot on something that does not help you every game is pointless.
In order to make the perk consistent, change the perk activation condition from taking protection hits to taking any hit. It would be strong anti-healing perk.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3601586#Comment_3601586
In my first 10 hours of gameplay I was really proud of myself for beating survivors with 500-600 hours on their steam profiles while 12 hooking. It happens.
I'm not sure what you mean by: "New player only face this perk if they face Chucky player and chances are, the Chucky player might not equip the perk in it is current state" We're talking about the hypothetical OP version you came up with, why would you assume the on-basic-attack version would have the same pick rate as the current weak version?
My point still stands that you will only be facing chucky with this perk...which is like 1/33 killers. if new player loses to whatever x perk, the player has to learn from their errors, not get hand-holded. this is natural expectation when learning any new game. As new player, your expect to make dozen of countless errors and your opponent will likely make countless of dozen of errors as well. it is part of learning experience.
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
I expect the distorting/slowing aspects of his gas to get nerfed because Survivors don’t like it. He will receive something minor that qualifies as a “buff.” Maybe faster bottle throwing or an extra bottle with base-kit.
Likely will remain trash-tier, but be sure to buy his cosmetics.
i mean clown only needs three relevant buffs which are +2 bottles, instant yellow gas(like pink gas) and yellow gas to not buff survivor speed. he is needed that since his rework 2 years ago but he never got it because apparently "pinky finger is too oppressive for weaker survivors".
Luckily.... you don't need to play him anymore! you can just play skull merchant! the better clown. I would not be surprised that reason why they're buffing clown is because of skull merchant being better clown.
the one thing that i am concerned about is that they buff clown like they buff trickster and then content creators starting making videos that Cigar box+Garnish kit is UNLIMITED WALL-HACK CLOWN. OP. needs nerf. like death throes compilation.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3601501#Comment_3601501
Dang you're right, people who have played for only 10-20 hours are absolute cowards for choosing to stop playing a game that has mechanics that make the game unenjoyable to them. they should be forced to keep playing the game they don't find fun until they know how to counter it. That makes sense, because, uh...
It's quite telling you assume I'm talking about myself and that I couldn't possibly be caring about the experience of other players. Absolutely tracks with someone who meets any criticism of a perk idea with accusations of hand-holding
most new killer that are 10-20 hours also do not have all perks unlocked. this means that if they face Legion for example, Legion is likely to have perks like Discordance, NOED, Sloppy butcher and Spies from the shadow. New player only face this perk if they face Chucky player and chances are, the Chucky player might not equip the perk in it is current state because.... it is just useless.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3601436#Comment_3601436
When I said "vaporize" i meant "cause them to quit playing the game for good." Being denied the ability to run away after getting hit, which is what the perk you proposed would do to new players, would be so frustrating that most would say "it's not even worth trying to learn the counterplay to that"
However, I'll humor you and address the argument that you seem to be making, that a good perk should cause low level players to lose incredibly fast.
Let me get this straight. You think that simply by equipping a perk, killer players should be able to ensure they always win against low level players - not through outskilling the low level players, but through allowing the perk to shred through the weaker player.
You're right! I also don't understand why killer players need to be handheld and given perks that give them free wins against newer survivor players, instead of actually beating the survivor players through their own skill expression.
I mean if you do not enjoy playing dbd, then... yeah quit the game. no one forcing you to play the game. quitting the game because of a perk sounds ridiculously in my opinion.
Let me get this straight. You think that simply by equipping a perk, killer players should be able to ensure they always win against low level players - not through outskilling the low level players, but through allowing the perk to shred through the weaker player.
absolutely. The killer is outskilling you by using perk that you are terrible at playing vs. At some point, there has to be accountability for a skill-issue.
I also don't understand why killer players need to be handheld and given perks that give them free wins against newer survivor players, instead of actually beating the survivor players through their own skill expression.
good killer won't vs newer survivors. It is new killers that will play against newer survivors. Newer killer are likely making gameplay errors for newer survivors to win. a newer killer can be defeated just as newer survivor will often die. It is just matters for who is the worse player. Newer survivor will die to regardless to what perk are used because they are poor at the fundamental basics of the game.
Equipping perks is basic mechanic in the game. it is part of skill expression of successfully playing dbd. I do not understand why your post implies an exclusion to skill expression and utilizing perk.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3601431#Comment_3601431
I think fixing a bug that keeps a b tier add on b tier add on would be dumb, a big part of the advantage to slam duration add-ons is the speed burst. It's not really true speed either, it simply elongates the degrading slam speed blight already gets base.
those add-on that i am describing make base speed bigger. it is not same thing.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600801#Comment_3600801
You assume people are always going to be facing 20 straight meters of open space and won't run into stuff, particularly new players who aren't used to that kind of mechanic. Maybe 80% is an exaggeration, but if you think such a perk wouldn't just instantly vaporize (figuratively) a large percent of the casual playerbase, you clearly haven't played any solo survivor recently.
a strong perk is suppose to instantly vaporize bad players. they're not playing the game properly. perk balance should not be balanced around lowest level. lower-mid-level player should adapt/learn to play against the perk or accepting losing to the perk due to poor play. I don't understand why every killer perk needs this massive amount of hand-holding. with that type of attitude, every single killer perk has to be bad with excuse of "too oppressive for new players".
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600789#Comment_3600789
I'm sure this is the reason but that reasoning is stupid. Huntress has a lullaby because surprise hatchet from 35m away getting an injury or down is a thing. I suppose a surprise knife from 35m can happen... but it won't accomplish anything unless 5/7 more land... at which point it isn't a surprise.
35 meter hatchets still happen regardless of lullaby or not. lullaby is specifically there to discourage people to run undetectable. The other goal is to make it less effective. undetectable still works on lullaby killers... like people have done Wooden fox Huntress on indoor maps like RPD but for open maps, no serious killer player runs undetectable on lullaby killers...
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600785#Comment_3600785
Blights slam add-ons already increase the move speed of his slam, I doubt speed will be changed to that.
you mean Rose tonic and Putela dust? The duration slam add-on's? I was aware that those add-on are bugged. the tooltip clearly states to only increase slam duration. the add-on only state to only improve slam duration and do not mention speed. Given that they're changing blight add-on, I imagine fixing bugs in said add-on would also occur. 2x speed, alchemist ring, c21 and C33 are in my experience the most common add-on to face in soloq. I would be very surprised for those add-on to stay like they are.
I do not think blight need negative changes. these negative changes on killer add-on are for casual players.
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@Seraphor said:
Exposed and Exaustion usually do.
endurance counters exposed. you got it backwards. Exhaust only counters exhaustion perks. so only DH.
machine gun type effects are counter to endurance. so stbfl, rapid brutality/haste effects indirectly, huntress m2->m1, trickster(though not in current state), bubba chainsaw with add-on's. basically all killer that really strong at face-camping **.
in-chase mobility soft-counters endurance because you can gap-close distance post-hit. This is stuff like Blight's alchemist ring, Nurse, Chucky's Slice & Dice, Wesker's virulent bounds.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600670#Comment_3600670
You're asking for a perk that removes survivor ability to see anything at all, for longer than hit cooldown, upon hitting them, for the cost of not respecting 2 pallets. You do realize that's effectively an ask to be given free 2-taps on about 80% of survivor players, right?
i think 80% is exaggeration. it is not that hard to run forward in straight line. the perk is hex perk and it can be disabled with time sink. the current iteration of the perk is nearly worthless.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
I don’t understand why Trickster still has a lullaby, when it takes so long to get through a health state. If a survivor is far away, they aren’t getting “rapid fire” 8 knives before they can react. His lullaby should be removed.
Bvhr tried standard him as ranged killer with huntress. since huntress has lullaby, they put one for him. I think lullaby in general are bad design because they discourage the player from using terror radius perks. It is just another mechanic to over-balance killers and restrict their gameplay choices.
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I would say that they going to weaken the most popular powerful add-on and make them low impact. The most popular add-on are Blighted crow, Blighted rat, Alchemist ring, C33 and C21. When they weaken said add-on, they tend to make most of what was good into ineffective.
Here's sample of my guesses for what change will look like.
C33: Every survivor within 16 meter radius of a slam suffers from 2%/4%/6%/8% hindered penalty per bounce for 3 seconds. Increased pallet break speed from 1.5 to 2.25 seconds.
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Iri tag: Now reduces reduces token regeneration rate by -0.66 seconds [Maybe they weaken this add-on, not sure]
Alchemist ring: Hitting a Survivor with a Lethal Rush will restore 1 rush token.
Blighted Crow: Increases Blight's Slam movement speed by 50%[rework]
Blighted rat: Increases Blight's Slam movement speed by 35%.[Rework]
C21: Reduced Slam aura reading radius from 8 to 4 meters.
Depending on how many add-on they nerf, they might modify Vigos Journal and Adrenaline vial even though these are less popular add-on's.
Vigos Journal: Now reduces blight's terror radius by 8 while rushing. [No longer grants Undetectable]
Adrenaline vial:
- Reduces the Token Regeneration time by -0.25 second per Token.(was 1 second)
- Increases the maximum Look angle during a Rush by +50 %.
- Increases the available Rush Tokens by +1 Tokens.(was 2)
- Increases the Rush Movement speed by +5%.(was 10%)
- Decreases the Rush Turn rate by -0.2 °/s.(was 0.5)
When they nerf killers in dbd, they nerf everything hard but they leave 1-2 good add-on behind. If I had to take a guess what add-on they might leave behind. it will likely be C33 and Adrenaline Vial. They will be weaker then before but not dead. It is little bit like Mother Daughter Ring Spirit.
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@CodeDB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600565#Comment_3600565
Beginner players are learning the maps? Like, if they knew the maps perfectly, would they still be considered beginners??
my point is that beginner player should not bog perk balance down. They'll lose to any perk because they are not playing properly. perk balance in particular should always be balanced around highest level of play. for reference, 4 second blind is very long. that is equal to a survivor blinding you, then chain-blinding you with a flashlight. It will catch even experienced survivors off-guard.
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part of reason why trickster received this main event add-on was because main event is royally ineffective. the main usage of main event was to reload knives. he needed add-on's reverted because this add-on along side his iri photocard were only two add-on that gave him a niche to be selected over other ranged killers.
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pointless perk. the aura reading does not last long enough to make a difference. if the aura was radius based around dropped pallet then it could be useful like 8 meters around the dropped pallet. Right now the result you get from this perk is getting information when you do not need it but you get no information on mindgames if the killer does not break it.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3599858#Comment_3599858
You realize how ridiculously OP this is against beginner players, right? A 4 second blank screen whenever you hit someone is basically "you had better memorize the layout of every prop within 2 tiles radius to millimeter precision and navigate them blindfolded or else you are getting 2-tapped." Good players will absolutely be able to navigate the map for a couple seconds like that (for example I'm fine after flashbanging myself usually), but against anyone with less than like 500 hours in survivor it's basically a "buy one hit and get the second one for free" button.
beginner players should learn the maps. it costs 3 perk slot to do this so it better do something.
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@Krazzik said:
Probably buff the stun duration back to 5 seconds. The only change it really needs.
Maaaaybe make it so entering a locker cancels it.
i think they might buff duration to 80 seconds and maybe make it work in end game.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
I don't think this perk supposed to be helpful in any play, it's just meme perk. It's doing what it supposed to do, i don't think any change needed.
it is still so bad. I would likely let it trigger on m1 basic attacks and increase the blind from 1.5 to 4 seconds. At least then, maybe survivor would run into walls and stbfl+rapid brutality could be interesting with that hex.
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it affects both players. they only need to remove condition where it disables if you get hooked. it is worse due to that drawback.
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@xEa said:
I apologise for the provocative titel, but i want to point out a simple fact that apparently nobody puts into account.
Killer mains are compared to survivor mains in terms of knowdledge and skill not on the same level. They cant be. At least the majority. So what do i mean by that:
Practice makes perfect!
A survivor main with 5000 hours played survivor for 5000 hours. Duh! (for simplicity reason we ignore for both sides that they also spent a little bit of time playing the other side)
A killer main with 5000 hours is a completly different thing. Many, if not the majority of players have multible or even all killers on their roster. Learning 34 different killers in 5000 hours is a completly different thing then just learning one.
A good example is a streamer named Abs0lutly T4lented (name is changed). He is overall a good killer with lots of hours (8000~) but compared to the players he sometimes faces, he looses way to often since he is rotating through all the killers constantly. If he is playing all day, he can maybe play every single killer once a day.
Therefore he wont get on the absolute top level on any killer, but stays mediocre on all of them. He is constantly complaining that it is so hard against those survives, but he does not realise that he is just not as experienced. When you have on average just 200 hours on lets say the Doctor (in a timespan of 7 years), you can not expect to win against 5000+ hours survivor mains.
On the other hand, killer mains who play only 1 killer DESTROY survivors. Even people who exclusivly playing Trapper for thousends of hours are dominating with hundreds of wins in a row. The difference really shows.
I think this should be considered to ballancing and especially to what we want for the game. It is easy to forget that survivors put a shitload of time into that one single character (every survivor is exactly the same) and whe i as a killer with the same hours playing ALL kinds of killer wont win all the time, it has a reason.
Thats it.
Kind regards
i think it is more opposite. survivors are playing poorly so they think that their side needs buffs and the way killer are losing has no counter-play.
For example, Tru3 was playing Chucky today. He noticed that DH and Decisive strike were making him lose every single game on Chucky due to chase extension. When he tried to look for a counter to DH, He found none. He tried running Mindbreaker, Blood echo, Styptic touch, Genetic limit but he lost. None of the killer perks were effective at providing exhaust to disable DH, so he moved to 4 gen defence perks because he said that he was winning every single chase but generators were too fast.
The other aspect that tru3 talked about with Chucky is that there is no inner depth to his gameplay. For example, he tried using his stealth but cooldown and noises made it difficult to use stealth. He said that is only depth to Chucky is walk as m1 killer, let survivor drop a pallet, scamper over it, do hug tech and you get a hit with Slice & Dice.
It is not exactly that he is not a good killer. it is that there is no depth to learning said killers because he physically cannot play better. This is why he says that if he was playing killers to win, He'd play nothing but nurse. The reason being is that Nurse has highest depth in the game because your ability to land blinks influences your success on her. There is something meaningful to get good at. With Chucky, he has a cooldown and he cannot down people faster then cooldown allows. Furthermore, there is nothing meaningful to learn that going change his losses into wins. Many killer are simply statistically meant to lose due to imbalance variables of the game. The killer themselves have limited skill-ceiling and limited power-level balanced around weaker survivors. When you face better teams, it creates an imbalance game at the top because it is balanced for low-medium players over top players. That is why he does not bother to change his perk builds on any killers. he does not think any perk choice matters because if he a bad team, he'll win with 0 perks but if he faces a good team, the survivor entirely controls their ability to win. Tru3 does not believe that killers have agency in winning. He believes that killer's ability to win is solely based off the survivor skill-level.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3599016#Comment_3599016
I think they reworked him both to reduce survivor frustration and to make him stronger, they just went a bit overboard on the nerfs after the PTB. I don’t think they intended to make him worse.
All they need to do is revert the throw rate back to 4 or bring back the ramp up and maybe reduce the laceration metre by 1. The only real issue PTB Trickster had was Main Event and the Iri add on, which they fixed. The throw rate nerf was overkill.
they definitely intended him to be worse. every single content creator said he was "over-tuned". you have to be patient for bvhr to revert all the ptb -> to live changes to make character playable.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3599089#Comment_3599089
Doctor was weaker during this time. And also harder to play, because you had to switch Modes when you wanted to use his Power during the chase.
The Blast is also better at applying Madness than the Static Field was.
i don't agree. static field was better at applying madness but it was a bad detection tool.
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in road map, march-april, they are thinking of improving doctor, so maybe he becomes better. his chase is ok at tile-sets but his catch-up towards health-states is poor beyond using stbfl and sloppy to recover quickly+keep people injured(to avoid health-states). He has decent anti-loop with shock therapy. can play almost any tile in the game but he is relied on range add-on. I can see this being buffed. His madness at base-kit is suppose to make survivors miss skill-checks to have 4vs1 game-delay but it is not very effective. survivors at high mmr are too good at skill-checks for his passive to do anything. Restraint and Discipline are decent afflictions madness afflictions while Order and Calm are not that good. The only saving grace for Calm add-on is that it has a decent passive to boost detection/lower TR. With requirement to have a range add-on, he only has room to use 1 affliction yet none of the afflictions are like game-winning. they're just ok small bonuses. Awhile back, they weakened his madness to scale back to rank 1. This hurts Restraint affliction and Calm affliction because those effects work outside of chase and incentives you to use Discipline or Order because these afflictions work inside the chase. Order is not that good so Discipline affliction has inherent bias over his other madness choices because it has a decent side-passive of making his shock detonate faster.
As much I am not interested too much in mangled and stbfl nerfs, the killer changes are intriguing.
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@yeeeitsdustin said:
Hey y'all! I've been playing Demo for awhile now, and have around 1000 hours invested in him. I've posted about this idea before, but have a couple small tweeks for it. Also, since Stranger Things is back, and there is an upcoming Demo change in Spring, this is alot more relevant. Anyways, let me know what you think about this addon idea below!
Unnamed addon: Whenever the Demogorgon teleports from one portal to another, all active portals on the map glow red as if the Demogorgon is about to emerge. Any survivor within an 8-meter range of the portal the Demogorgon actually emerges out of will be afflicted with the Hindered (5%) and Exhausted status effects for 5 seconds, once the Demogorgon has fully emerged. Any survivor within an 8-meter range of a fake portal emerging will be afflicted with the Deafness and Oblivious status effects for 10 seconds.
I think this addon will be fun to use, and keep survivors on their toes whenever you teleport, while also not being too strong. Let me know what you think, and if you would replace a current addon's effect with this effect!
so one of reasons why lepros lichen was so good as add-on for demo was because you could put closed portals at generators, tp through a nearby portal that was already opened, see everyone on generators then use one of closed portals to tp onto a gen.
without global lepros lichen, demo's portals are very ineffective in time efficiency. he has no base-kit information to use them and there is no good perks that give you information on generators for which portal to teleport on.
The only somewhat ok perk for info on demo is BBQ because it works on every hook but this means that demo has to commit to chases and get downs. The other possible perk combo is Oppression+Surveillance but this requires you to kick gens and oppression has 80 second cooldown. his anti-loop power is not good enough to straight to every chase and the time efficiency for survivor to break a portal is so minimal compare to the killer's time to walk to the gen and replace broken portals. It is like trapper trap problem.
one add-on that turns his portals into information system is Lifeguard whistle. The problem is that you have to place portals on generators and if survivors break your portals, you lose your information system and your teleport system. Lifeguard whistle is not as efficiency as old lepros lichen because demo only has 6 portals, so if he uses 1 portal as central control station tp, He has only has 5 other portals and he needs to double portal to use his teleport system and use info from lifeguard whistle in case survivors decide to break portals.
Demo needs a lot of base-kit buffs for demo to operate without lepros lichen. Virtually half of his kit is unusable with that add-on nerf. The only anti-shift w he has toward health-states is STBFL and dev want nerf this perk while his shred is not strong enough to stand on its own without stbfl. demo going need a lot of improvements with their upcoming spring changes.
Needs at least 11 portals, better shred cooldown, maybe faster wind-up so pre-dropping pallet is not such easy-mode counter to demo shred.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598974#Comment_3598974
Or, alternatively, you as killer could choose -not- to activate DS.
As for the topic overall: 6.1 was well-intentioned and there were some good things in there, but Ruin going from 200 to 100% was definitely a terrible change, and DS going from 5 to 3 seconds was the literal worst change in DBD history.
that is entire problem with killer. the killer loses by not tunneling because there is not enough time to go for hooks. It is not question of not being able to trigger it. it is question of time. tunneling is most efficient way to slow the game down for killer. The killer is forced to activate DS because there is no other viable method of winning. The killer does not have enough map pressure in 4vs1 for their downs to be relevant game delay. The only way they get map pressure is killing one survivor off. DS is still strong perk because of that. It is only perk that survivor can effectively stack a 2nd exhaustion perk on top of regular exhaustion perk. I still use DS semi-regularly on survivor.
SWF are not using DS because FTP+Buckle is superior and Background player with flashlights/flashbang. SWF still use DS. they're just using more team-oriented decisive strikes that are much more spammable.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598932#Comment_3598932
Slinger can outplay every loop on the game yet he is not op, in fact he is easy af to dunk on. I dont buy that argument of chucky being able to get a hit at every loop making him op, also you can juke him in slice and dice.
he is easy to dunk on because deathslinger is not good at the chase. slinger is easy to outplay. chucky is not.
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@NomiNomad said:
I wouldn't say Pop is back to it's prime. It's definitely a pretty good perk, but nowhere near as good as it was - unless used on nearly complete generator, ofc.
And we don't know what they'll be doing to DS, but I very much doubt they'll revert it to it's prime. Probably just put it back at 5 seconds.
DS is still strong perk vs 70% of the killer cast. The main difference is that decisive strike takes skill to use. you have to be good at looping m1 killers to profit from time-waste of DS. I don't think it is wise to buff DS. all that increasing stun time will do is extra-punish weak m1 killers that have poor catch-up post-stun.
killer would need like old dying+pre-nerf ruin for all extra wasted time from chases. the meta of stacking second chances and stacking game-delay for killer is not healthy one. there needs to be less second chances and the game-progression speed for killer need to be normalized in some shape or form when the killer is successful at downing survivors quickly at base-kit.
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streetwise is overpowered in 4 man swf with charge add-on and commodos toolboxes with permanent 50% repair speed the entire game... but it is not that strong in soloq.
Overwhelming presence is useless on every map that is not gideon's with distressing. Nobody uses it because it has no consistency. Killer consider using perks to counter items a total waste.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598620#Comment_3598620
Ofcourse this is early data we got but SM got highest kill rate after her rework and still she has highest kills. Xeno's killrates are also not changed so much.
Ofcourse some insane Chucky mains will make insane rates but i don't think he will get insane rates. I am believing he is really close to Wesker which is fine for game.
Chucky is easily top 3 killer. otz will likely make a 50 winstreak video on him. you can get hits on every single loop in the game. When playing against good chucky, he feels like nurse level oppressive in 1vs1. I do not think stats reflect the power-level of each killer. those stats in particular are too small of sample size. The perk stats work because there is large amount of submissions for perk stats. I don't think many people are going bother uploading their entire killer matches on Nightlight. those stats are simply not going to be accurate for killer beyond perk usage rates.
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that response makes no sense. it is like they do not understand the problem. Deja vu is not effective at breaking 3 gens because the issue is not how fast player does gens. it is ability to work generators. when 3 gen are very close together, the killer is able to constantly push survivors off generators making the player unable to work on generators. this makes regression default kicking of gens far more effective because killer can outpace or at best slowdown the survivors generator progress for prologue period of time.
when generator are spread out, the killer is unable to push survivors off generators because walking time between each generator is too long. this makes kicking gens unrewarding as survivor outpaces progression by huge margin. killer need much stronger gen regression at base but there needs to some sort of limit towards regression so that the matches can end before 20 minutes. matches should not go past 20 minutes.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
I think they will just remove the FOV part of it's effect, either that or replace it with another effect like what they did for WGLF.
it would be cool if they made new effect have a token system. Each time you freshly hook a new survivor, Gain 1 token. For every token gain the following effects.
- reduces your terror radius by 2 when outside a chase.
- Increases your terror radius by 2 when inside a chase.
This additional to the current effect that reduces your by -8 when outside a chase and increase the TR by 8 when inside a chase. Your are probably right... that they'll just remove FOV most likely.
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I think bvhr should revert his throwing-rate from 3 -> 4. Maybe improve some of add-on's.
Fizz Soda: Increases main event movement speed by 5%.
Autograph: Increases main event movement speed by 3%.
Iridescent Photocard:
Each consecutive blade hit grants a stackable +1% haste status effect, up to a maximum of 7%.
This effect is lost when putting a survivor into the dying state.
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@Zokenay said:
Forgot to add, but Trickster main problem in the PTB were his addons and Main Event being too frequent, but rather than fixing those specifically, they nerfed his throw rate in general, even though they increased the number of knives needed to injure and made the decay faster.
So instead they made his power pretty much a secondary thing rather than his main means of doing dmg (To the point that half the time its hardly worth using over an M1) and made Main Event practically useless.
it is not really surprising. survivor players kept saying he was over-tuned and over-buffed. Oh, he certainly looks over-buffed. so over-buffed that now he needs more buffs than where he started.
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Power-creep doctor. doctor becomes useless killer if skull merchant just does what he does. her main counter-play is sliding pallets at the correct time. the two killer that i really don't want bvhr to change as m1 killer is skull merchant and sadako. these only m1 killer that i ever feel like playing these days.
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question, why don't you use Decisive strike?
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just 115% and reduce total wind-up from 3 to 2.5. She is not bad by any means but I often feel like i have to proxy camp and tunnel more then I would like to when playing her.
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@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598098#Comment_3598098
agreed - to some extents - my issue is that this killer can ignore even the most unsafe pallet and still be effective unlike wesker and legion due to being able to use slice and dice after going under pallets - which makes him even stronger on tiles that are already weaker for survivor making him really opressive and it doesnt feel earned either as killer.
what do you mean? this is his bread and butter gameplay. vault into slice & dice into hug tech is exactly he is suppose to work. This is what makes him so powerful because he can entirely ignore all loop design in the game if he uses his dash correctly. main issue is only cooldown. you have to wait forced cooldown to do anything because going around pallets as 4.4 vs safe pallet is irrelevant. It takes too long to do anything.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597204#Comment_3597204
I also like the old one more. I never played the condemned playstile, because of this I hate the rework. I like the instant ability to tp around. Now every Tv is switched off, because of the tape rework. Before I could almost everytime tp where I wanted. Therefore I want the old version back without the focus ONLY on condemned. I‘m fine when the instant teleport stays and condemned gets buffed, but I want to decide how to play. Right now if you don‘t spam/force condemned, you lose and I don‘t like to have to play like that.
Buffs and changes I would like:
Tvs:
No/very short tv cooldown, so that survivors have to interact with tapes if they don‘t want that the Onryo can tp to them all the time.
The glitching in her ability should be more confusing and better. The pallet immunity should stay. When chasing someone in her ability chases count as chases, which made windows not block after jumping through a window. Also I would like her to have terror radius in her ability to make more jumpscares. I remember playing the first time against her, when I didn‘t knew from where she was coming and I only heard the radius out of nowhere, which made me run into her on lerry. At least the switching between her forms should be faster to get hits more consistent.
Tapes: I would like them to stay like they were before the rework. I only do not like the current tapes, because the condemned counterplay passively switches off the TVs. I‘m open for ideas.
Condemned ideas:
The radius from the TVs increases a bit where you get condemned close to TVs. In the decreased area it‘s only a half stack condemned. Then in the regular radius from before one stack like before (I think it was one stack) and in a radius of 6m around TVs survivors get two stacks. Like in the movie, where you only got cursed when you watched it for that you needed to be close.
Also if people are close to TVs they get a small amount of condemned if they are on.
I don‘t want global condemned, because then there won’t be instant tp speed to TVs and then there have to be cooldowns on the TVs, which I don‘t want. For me it is important to teleport around much and use the TVs in chase, which is quite difficult right now. Also after crawling out of a tv there should be a speedbost. I don‘t know if the current one has that and if there is one, then it‘s very small.
there can be instant teleport with no cooldown and global condemn. you only have to add cooldown for condemn to be applied. I can agree with survivors turning off TV's as being too long. I think it is suppose to be an anti 3 gen mechanic so that sadako does not constantly teleport to same TV over and over to build up condemn. Now with tapes turning off mechanic, it does not have reason to exist. It is main purpose is to give sadako information that you pick-up a tape. 60 second is a lot of time to notice a tape pick-up. If they were improving TV TP flexibility, cooldown would need to be heavily reduced to something like 25-30 seconds.
As I said though, I do not see them buffing sadako because she is a lot stronger then before. When I see Onryo on roadmap, I see it as Onryo received many negative changes to make less effective because of casual players struggling escape against her. So thinking about Teleport buffs and Phase-walk Anti-loop buffs are not something that I think the roadmap is referencing. I fully expect her to become another Freddy.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597204#Comment_3597204
You misunderstand my points. Again.
If Sadako teleports right now. What do you do to prevent getting condemned? You grab a tape. Anything else? No. You cant do anything about it.
3 gens are not as effective anymore. The perks making it insanely strong are not as good anmore and there will also be a new mechanic punishig killers that 3 gen from the get go.
"Tunneling" a survivor with a tape was the reward. Your correct that nobody interacted with a tape. Therefore the Sadako had to put a lot of effort into condemning survivors effectively. When you finally had worked enough, the survivor (or more survivors) would pick up a tape. This was your time to shine. This was when you needed to kill that survivor. Was this as uncounterable as you claim it to be? Not by a long shot. Good teamplay prevented a lot of it. Bodyblocking a survivor inserting the tape worked extremely well. Now i hear you say: " sadako could go through survivors though!". Correct. But if the bodyblocker was close and placed him-/herself correctly enough to the survivor inserting the tape, autoaim and hitbox would always let you hit the bodyblocker. I tested it out. I played her a lot. I tested her a lot. I knew her well.
I dont think i misunderstood anything about her rework. I played her a lot on the ptb. Gave my feedback and got a lot of suppoert from youtube and here on the forums. The condmning in chase is fine. I didnt say anything about that. I even supported these changes enabling alternative ways to condemn survivors on the ptb. But you cant read what i wrote anymore. I didnt want the whole rework to be reverted. I wanted some unhealthy parts of it reverted.
What was bad:
- global condemned
- Sadako losing chase when demanifested
- Tapes no longer giving passive condemned
- Cooldown on teleporting constricting her fluid gameplay
- deleting carrawling survivors into tvs as a skillful interaction (apparently thats too hard now?????)
- Probably some more but i cant remeber what i exactly wrote almost 5 MONTHS AGO
- Addon pass doing nothing to her useless addons and nerfing reikos watch for no reason
- Change to Iridescent video tape, incentivising slugging
- Survivors being able to put their tape in every TV
What was good:
- Tapes getting destroyed when hit
- Cooldowns switched and reduced drastically
- Sadako not being able to be stunned when demanifested
- Nerf to ring drawing, disincentivising slugging
- Tapes getting destroyed for hooking (got changed!)
- Nerfing Iridescent video tape
For all those in this post who want to see me as an antagonist right now: I sat down for over 5 hours to write and discuss a whole addon pass with tons of ideas and suggestions for fun, strong and creative addons. I WANT THIS CHARACTER TO BE BETTER. NOT WORSE.
yes you grab a tape. what other aspect do you need to counter the mechanic? the mechanic being turned off encompass the entire chase gameplay for survivor. a large portion of the game is centers around stalling chases and chase survival. for a lot players, being good at the chase is huge summary of survivor's skill-level in the game. Now i am going to say that it is so black and white because i do think that generator efficiency and teamwork ethic at correct time play a part in survivor success but being good at the chase is a good portion of survivor skill in the game.
if 3 gen is not effective anymore, then why they changing it? Why is coconut able to have 30+ minute games with singlurarity? Her old mechanic of 16 meter TV and generators by TV incentived gen-camping and 3 gen. I would imagine this being one of reasons for her changes. The other reason is that another method to corral survivors was to slug people next to TV's. Survivor dislike this gameplay and as result, ring drawing received a nerf.
-Global condemn is unlikely to be reverted because of map dependency and incentives to slug/camp gens
-Sadako losing chase looks like a normalization of wraith cloaking however i think her passive was meant to work like a passive ability for mindgames. I don't understand this change but it does enable her to use PWYF much easier.
Tapes no longer giving passive condemn was a problem because it discouraged macro tape gameplay from sadako and also encouraged strange tunneling tactics. there is add-on called tape editing deck that makes you start with the tape. this add-on is what otz used to showcase how dangerous holding old tapes were. Like i said, you would proxy follow people with tape and when survivor tries using TV, you tp and interrupt them. break chase condemn build-up and so on. There is more skill in new sadako in managing tapes then this cheesy gameplay. If you like this type of gameplay, pig is good killer to learn for this gameplay.
3 gen entire game to kick gens is one of least skillful tactics for killer. there was lack of skill and killer skill expression in manipulating condemn to the killer's advantage. As i said, corral tv was map based and the way fix the map was 3 gen and slug because slugging is another method for corralling. Slugging was not good for her because you need down people to slug and she is m1 killer with weak chase.
Add-on pass did not need much because the add-on she had were really good. Not every killer needs to have 20 perfect add-on with same strength. Iri tape, remote control, ring drawing, bloody finger nails and new mother comb are perfect serviceable add-on's. Her invisibility was never strong for her. The number are too weak for anti-loop to function. It is like pig ambush dash problems. I think most of her add-on have good functionalities ideas but need to be expanded/buffed numerically for her to have a huge add-on variety set. Again, I do not know if this is good idea because Blight has a large variety of add-on that have high impact on the match and his add-on are listed to be nerfed.
Current iri-tape is same functionality as old base-kit. It is very clear that you don't understand that a big part of Sadako identity is building condemn and mori'ing survivors. Slugging and 3 gen were just methods to corral. Now this is no longer needed because of global condemn.There is no real incentive to slug and 3 gen does not work because of new TV cooldowns. Her kit is anti 3 gen currently. You describe this as a problem is direct contradiction to saying Global condemn as a problem.
Survivors being able to put tapes in every TV is drawback they put for weak survivors to not constantly die to condemn. It makes reverse condemn easier. Unfortunately, you cannot fix bad players in dbd. Bad players will still die to the mechanic regardless of hand-holding mechanics. They make too many gameplay mistakes. Dbd constantly try to balance for low-medium survivors in dbd. Not to talk too much about another killer named Trickster, balancing for low-medium players makes the game imbalanced for high-level survivors vs killer. I do not think this good mechanic however this mechanic is typical hand-holding survivor BVHR mechanic on the killer. This is one only mechanic I agree with you.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3595884#Comment_3595884
Calling us 5 players is a joke.
Has anybody here been in the Ptb feedback section for Sadako rework?
We where a TON of players.
your one of the only player that talks about rework negatively. Your post widely misunderstand a lot of change thought behind the killer. The first one being is global condemn. the problem 16 meter of condemn was that corralling survivor into TV was very difficult. Small maps that had double floor like Gideon heavily favoured Sadako while larger outdoor maps were a dice roll for carolling survivors into TV's. Global condemn was to make Sadako less map dependent.
Another weird misconception is that you cannot play new sadako like old sadako. this is not true. you can play old sadako in new sadako. you get shorter tv cooldown's and can teleport more often on average compare to old base-kit.
Right now it's doesn't matter how good you are as survivor in that regard. Your getting condemned all the same.
this is not true at all. how good you at looping m1 killer greatly decides how quickly sadako m1 the tape out of your hand. Because Sadako has to m1 survivors with tapes, Predicting televisions is not sufficient enough to to be successful. you need to teleport to a tv and hit survivor from TV teleport. Just like you describing corralling survivors into TV's teleports, you do same thing with current survivor holding tapes but like you said, counter-play is very easy to 180. In old sadako, you did not need to hit survivors with each teleport. you only needed to teleport in 16 meter radius. that is why onepumpwillies strategy of 3 gen was so effective. You have to do gens and TV spawn near gens. If you played in 3 gen play-style, you had no control over avoiding condemned. you had to finish 3 gens to power gate. This was only way to remove rng component of the map. there was like... almost no skill component to the sadako. with iri-tape, you could mindless spam teleport's with almost no consequence or thought process behind any teleport. Your only limitation to teleporting was getting a hit here and there just to reset 4 TV's. this was very easy play-style that even new player could have great success.
Old Sadako had to monitor all tvs to see when and where someone picked up a tape and predict where the correct TV for the tape was.
Current Sadako still monitors TV's. This skill is more pronounced in her kit because tv are constantly being turned on and off. The problem with old kit was that... condemn was lackluster in build-up that nobody needed to pick up a tape. it just simply wasn't required. If anything, picking-up a tape was death trap because sadako could stay 19 meters away from survivor and follow survivor. Whenever they try insert a tape, you TP to TV to cancel the tape insertion. you would keep doing this until 30 second condemn timer automatic builds condemn. This was very cheesy. it was almost as cheesy as Pig following you with active head-trap. Some player refer to this as "tunneling condemn sadako strategy". you can see showcase of this with Otz who put a video about this for old Sadako for how he best found to use condemn to kill people. there wasn't much tape-gameplay going on with old Sadako.
In any case, I do not expect sadako to get buffed. I would expect her to be nerfed because she likely over-performs vs poor teams.