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@Jplanas98 said:
Except that would break the game. If 4 survivors run saboteur and toolboxes they could easily get rid of all of the hooks on the map and that would make it literally impossible for killers to win because they're unable to sacrifice survivors. They would have to rely on slugging and camping the downed survivor until they bleed out just to get kills. And that would mean the survivors would be able to rush gens without any threat. The fact that there is no counter to it other than running 1 specific perk would make it insanely over powered.
That would mean those survivors that are saboing aren't working on a gen, which technically buys time for the killer. Also, having all 4 survivors run a sabo build to destroy all the hooks is possible even right now but nobodies doing it because it's a gimmick build at the moment. This logic also applies to anything in the game that makes survivors stronger. If all 4 survivors ran a purple flashlight with battery addons, they'd all last a lot longer in chases, and applies to instaheals as well, yet hardly anyone is doing it. The way sabotage is balanced is that it's a high risk, high reward play. It's a risk between saving a survivor or just being a big waste of time. Once again, relying on slugging and camping due to this build is possible even now if you destroy all the hooks in the right area. If the killer slugs, that applies pressure, which in turn means you got survivors off gens so it's an effective way to play around sabotage.
Hardly anyone bothers to use sabotage because right now, it's just not worth doing for such a high risk. This buff will make it so that survivors can sabotage hooks without screwing there teammates over by wasting too much time. I always see survivors saboing a hook and being like, "#########, why isn't he just doing a gen"?, which a lot of survivors think of with this mechanic.
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I feel like they should buff the addons but also make it more interesting instead of just, make survivors mangled, faster charge speed on chainsaw, increased range, and so on because it's just not strong enough and makes their power very bland. Addons can make the killers ability more unique and powerful at the same time. I mean just look at Freddy's rework. He has addons to give him dream pallets, which gives the players two powers to choose from and slow progression when survivors are asleep. Now that's what I'd like to see more.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/658557#Comment_658557
Again, im not making up figures, the devs have stated that their ideal draw scenario is 2 kills and 2 escapes. And i think they are right. Too many kills and survivors won't want to play. Too many escapes and killers won't want to play. As is, not enough survivors are escaping to reach the ideal goal of 2 kills and 2 escapes. I'm not calling for blanket killer nerfs. I'm not advocating for blanket survivor nerfs. I do think that certain add-ons and offerings could use work but I think that claiming most killers need buffs when they're arguably slightly too powerful is counter-productive and ultimately not good for the games health.
I feel like they should make the addons more interesting instead of just, make survivors mangled, faster charge speed on chainsaw, exhaust survivors in gas, increase range, because it's just so bland and doesn't add enough to their power. Addons can make the killers play style more interesting and different than their regular power. I mean just look at the Freddy's addons after the rework. He's got dream pallets which completely changes his play style and slow progression if survivors are asleep. Now that's what I'd like to see more.
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@Volkain said:
Yo second wind + Solidarity, you can’t be directly healed but you can be indirectly healed by solidarity. So 20 seconds becomes 8-12 second heal. Then there’s Steve’s unhook perk plus distortion which equals three free killer aura reveals. Think about a second wind, plus inner strength, adrenaline burst and mettle of man. You could become a legit tank if you’re good with a flashlight.
Second Wind doesn't work with Solidarity since Solidarity only works while you're injured so you might as well get healed by a survivor. Plus, the healing progression resets when you go to the dying state. Distortion is literally one of the worst perks to be paired with Babysitter since the effect only lasts for 4 seconds out of the 10 from a token. Also, you only get 3 tokens and can be consumed by BBQ or Nurses Calling so it's not like you're going to have all the tokens available by the time Babysitter works. Seeing where the killer is after an unhook is pretty pointless as they're either chasing someone, closing in on you, or just camping. Just use Breakdown to know what I'm talking about.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/658480#Comment_658480
It's your opinion though, you don't need to apologize for someone not liking your opinion honestly. This is just a game we are talking about in the end, anyways.
I agree that you shouldn't be a d*ck to anyone in an argument but his opinion can be refuted which means he can be wrong. That's the whole point of an argument. To persuade someone that you're right and they're wrong. It's not that they're not respecting his opinion, they're just refuting him of something that can be proven. Saying Nurse is the best killer is fact, not an opinion.
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@ad19970 said:
I’m honestly curious to see what others think about which killer could use some buffs to become viable even against optimal survivors. Right now, some killers do seem like they are just a little too weak. However, keep in my mind that map reworks will buff all of these killers a bit anyways if maps get more mindgameable loops and if the huge maps maybe become a little smaller.
Also, there is no reason to get offensive towards anyone. This is just to see people’s opinions on this matter, and everyone’s opinion can differ.
Personally, I feel like Trapper, Wraith, Doctor, Leatherface, Clown and Legion are the ones who could use at least some small buffs, even with the upcoming map reworks. They either lack in chase or in map pressure a bit too much in my experience.
Not sure about Plague, Myers, Pig and Ghostface, but at the moment I do believe they do not need any buffs with the upcoming map reworks. Ghostface just needs his detection fixed.
Also, I fear that Hillbilly could eventually need a very small nerf once most maps are reworked and there are more mindgameable loops on each map. My reasoning behind this is he is probably the only top tier killer that will benefit from map reworks and more mindgameable loops, since the other top tier killers are good because their ability allows them to be very good in chase no matter the loops on a map, while also having map pressure, but not nearly as much as Hillbilly does.
Certain ideas I have on how to buff the low tier killers would be:
Trapper
Should carry 2 traps at base, and his traps should spawn more towards the center of the map and close to gens
Wraith
Could use a movement speed increase from 126.5% to 135% while cloaked, and his speed burst duration after uncloaking should be buffed from 1 second to 1.5 seconds
Doctor
Maybe increasing the base range of shock therapy(and adjusting his addons that further increase the range), and maybe having the illusions emit a terror radius
Clown
His bottles should automatically refill when downing and hooking a survivor, and the slow down of his gas should be increased to 20%. Alternatively, some ability for map pressure, like damaging gens from farther away with an ability that does on a cooldown would also be great, since he has pretty much the worst map pressure of all killers, and his chase potential doesn’t quite make up for it in my opinion.
Legion
Maybe increasing his movement speed while using Feral frenzy a bit? And perhaps decreasing his terror radius to 24 meters.
Stealth Killers like Wraith, Pig, and GhostFace are getting a pretty big buff with the undetectable status effect being implemented soon so we should wait and see how strong they get. I'd say Doctor really needs a rework the most since he's hands down the worst killer at the moment. He's the easiest to loop when using his ability and there's no point in knowing where the survivors are most of the time since he's just an m1 killer that wastes time shocking just for the bp. I think his ability needs a rework completely, kind of like Freddy. Just increasing his shock range or illusions isn't going to solve anything but I can't think of any suggestions atm.
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@Sirbloodninja said:
Just started playing a week ago. Noticed that PC players have to constantly mash spacebar in order to struggle on hook. Anyway the developers can patch this out and make struggle "hold spacebar" instead? This is going to really wear down the spacebar on PC player keyboards, potentially causing them to have to buy new keyboards, which is not cool.
This is a pretty good idea since me and many others have had moments where we kept pressing space but eventually slipped up and made us let go of the hook. Plus, it's loud as f*ck from the mashing and gets annoying after a while.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I just want to chime in and point out how comical it is that people say "defend gens" when there are 7 available to repair. The problem isn't gen speed or the bogus concept of early game gen pressure that so many here cling to. Hooks and slugs are actual gen pressure. It's a map and pallet amount/pallet safety issue. I'm not talking about the game in question here from Tru3. If you down and hook a survivor before a gen pops, you can win. Period. Problem is, smart survivors know they'll never run out pallets, and they also know that a relative lack of pallets doesn't matter if the killer hasn't accumulated many hooks by the time 2 gens are left. Can you find and drop safe pallets for 80 seconds to start a game? It's not that hard. 3 gens can be done in that span. My SWF has done it.
Eeh, it depends on the killer's build really. A killer running Spirit Fury and Enduring will destroy pallets like there's no tomorrow. You still got 2 perk slots left so you can just use Ruin or Corrupt and pair it with BBQ and there you go. Now you shorten chases, pressure gens, and slow gen progression all at the same time.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/657785#Comment_657785
I think the main point of many is that if this would have been a much weaker killer than Nurse, than playing optimally could possibly still result in these gens being done so fast. Killers like Wraith, who aren't very strong in chases, or Clown, who has awful map pressure, would maybe be quite helpless in these situations.
Wraith can actually be pretty good in chases as he can use Brutal Strength and addons to enable him to chew threw pallets very quickly while cloaked, and vault faster. I already said earlier that if killers have awful map pressure then use perks that give them pressure. I agree that they need certain buffs to make them more viable but at the moment, we don't have that so the only solution right now is to use perks that'll slow the gens down like Ruin and Pop goes the Weasel. This just means that these killer's HAVE to run these kinds of perks to even be viable while other killers with good pressure can run gimmicky builds and still do fine. As many pointed out already, the video the op posted wasn't a good example of gen rushing when the killer does everything right since Tru played like sh*t in the video.
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@avilmask said:
So in order for this to be okay you must run nurse with mori every game? :@
That wasn't my point at all. All I'm saying is that he made a lot of mistakes that cost them those gens to be completed. Simple as that.
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@Bravo0413 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/657621#Comment_657621
Maaybee corrupt intervention could have help but as players say ya shouldn't have to run a perk to get a decent amount of time in the match.... these players as tru3 stated wanted to make the killer feel powerless, ruin wouldn't have helped and leaving to chase someone else would have only allowed the first claud to finish the gen...
That's my diagnosis of it.
He didn't need Ruin or Corrupt Intervention to get a decent amount of time. Like I said earlier, the reason why he got gen rushed was because he kept missing the Claud with his m1 too much and yet he kept committing. If he just left her and defended the gens, it would've bought him some time. Not sure how Ruin wouldn't have helped in this situation as survivors are forced to hit great skill checks that don't give a bonus to gen progression, which is also pretty difficult to hit consistently so they're prone to f*ck up a few times. Also, someone would have to cleanse the Ruin to get rid of the effect which means they're not on a gen for the time being. Overall, this is a Nurse we're talking about. She's the best killer in the game for a reason so if he's struggling to even land a hit with megablink addons for that long and have 3 gens done in 2 minutes, then he's definitely doing something wrong.
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@Bravo0413 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/657569#Comment_657569
Those dont make up for mistakes dude pop goes the weasel doesnt combat this type of shiet and this vid is evidence of that...
Okay then he could've ran Ruin or Corrupt Intervention instead. He got punished for committing to the Claud, which took too much of his time. He could've just went for someone else that isn't as good or pressure the gens.
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https://youtu.be/DihB8TCIyFo
At 2:22 does it count? It even stops the Legions power at 1:53 Firecrackers only work once but they're pretty common so you guys could maybe try it out and see how it works.
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@Bravo0413 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/656870#Comment_656870
You make 2-3 mistakes you can gain additional chances vai running certain perks*
Fixed :)
Yeah and you can say the same for killers as they can make gens slower by running Ruin, Pop goes the Weasel, or Corrupt Intervention.
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There are so many factors that can lead to gen rushing that you killer mains aren't taking into consideration. Obviously, if 3 survivors decide to do gens while 1 is being chased for 1 minute like in the video, then yeah, you're gonna get gen rushed if you don't do something about it. I'm not sure why you guys think this is a problem. If you're not doing anything about it, then expect it to happen. End of story. It really depends on what killer you're using and the perk build suited for their play style. There are a lot of perks that slows the game down like Corrupt Intervention, Sloppy Botcher, and Thanatophobia, just to name a few. Y'all already know how useful Ruin is so just use that instead. If you're not running any perks that slows the game down, then expect it to be shorter than usual. Now if you're taking too long chasing a survivor, then just give up mid chase and go for someone else that's less capable of looping or mind gaming you. This'll get you hooking a survivor much faster, which will apply some pressure. Slugging applies pressure as well so do it if you see another survivor nearby. As for survivors, there are lots of things to do that'll get there minds off of gens, like opening chests, cleansing totems, sabotaging, flashlight saves, and healing. They can also use perks that'll help them survive in certain conditions like DS, exhaustion perks, Adrenaline, BT, and so on, or use some gimicky build like No Mither with Resilience, which can lower the chances of everyone surviving. It also depends on the map, which can either be killer sided or survivor sided. Teamwork is also a huge factor in surviving as you can get things done quicker if done together and saving each other, and then you got swf with voice chat that'll give them a huge advantage.
Now as for items and addons like instaheals or toolboxes being a problem, you can say the same thing for killer addons and moris.
Overall, rng has a pretty big impact in DBD, which is why you'll have some games where survivors hardly get any gens done or you get games like Tru3Ta1ent's in the video so this isn't something the devs can control much. This means that matches can favor one side or the other randomly and you can't really do much about it. Also, there will always be games where you play like sh*t while you do good on others. In this case, Tru played like sh*t in the video.
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@Normiree said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/655298#Comment_655298
Trust me that you did not come off as offensive. I was just distracted and frustrated by other threads and people. I had fun discussing the new perks, although I think it felt more like a contest and I felt discouraged toward the end. It feels unsatisfactory to post when most discussions only give the illusion of a conversation. I think that I am going to take a break from visiting the forums after this message.
I was using the clarification of tunneling as provided by Peanits in this comment. The critical part of this definition is that tunneling only applies to survivors that are within a short time of being unhooked. As you said, Borrowed Time discourages killers from tunneling, but Babysitter is different. It helps the unhooked survivor escape at any distance, but its effects are reduced if the killer is close. That is why I made a distinction between the perk discouraging against tunneling and it discouraging the killer from going for the unhooked survivor. More importantly, this debate was unrelated to the original topic. It felt annoying to address because it was so insignificant, and we probably agree about Babysitter's usage. I don't think that there was any reason to nitpick this much about it.
In short, the Bond versus Better Together does not matter. It is just another nitpick that stifled our discussion. I am not accessing how often the community will use it or how others feel about the perk. I am merely giving my opinion about Better Together's current benefits and how good I think it will be from my experience. It is well designed and a nice perk to have, but I do not agree that the perk is good. I like existing alternatives more. I heard your reasons for why Better Together was better than Bond. That's fine, but it feels like you cannot respect that I have a different opinion.
Like Better Together, I was only commenting on how I felt about the current state of Fixated. It just feels genuinely weak to me, and I do not think that it justifies a perk slot. Quick and Quiet and Dance with Me seem like better stealth perks, although I would have to test out Fixated to confirm that. I would rather ditch fixated for a more reliable or fun perk, like Lithe.
Inner Strength is by far her most potent perk. As a result, I do not honestly know how it will affect the meta. I still disagree about its usage in a chase, but I can understand your argument. Based on later comments, I'm guessing that you would agree that it is much less efficient out of a chase. It's healing speed is fast, but it is still not by much, and the perk does have a practical limit of uses. I think that the main difference between our opinions is Inner Strength's performance in a chase. I wish that difference was the focus of this part of the discussion, but instead, it just felt repetitive.
I wrote a lot because I am most likely not going to view or respond to future posts. I did not want to end my involvement with this discussion on an unfinished note. However, I learned some interesting stuff, like @Marcus mentioned that Hex: Thrill of the Hunt does not provide a notification on dull totems. Despite this being one of the better discussions, it is just not satisfying or worth it anymore to post stuff to the community.
Well, I apologize if that's how you felt throughout our conversation together, but I just want you and everybody else in this thread to know that I'm not trying to make this a contest.
Like I said in the last post, you contradicted yourself by saying you agreed with me about Babysitter, yet you followed it up by saying Babysitter helps prevent tunneling, which I said it doesn't. I just want to remind you that Babysitter doesn't really discourage tunneling as the unhooked survivor can still be tunneled without any consequences for the killer unlike BT, which prevents that from happening and punishes the killer if they don't play around it. "That is why I made a distinction between the perk discouraging against tunneling and it discouraging the killer from going for the unhooked survivor." So you're saying Babysitter doesn't discourage tunneling but it discourages the killer from going for the unhooked survivor, which in other words, means it discourages tunneling. I don't know how you still can't see this glaring mistake so perhaps you should word it better or you could just say that you agree with me and leave it at that.
Once again, the Bond versus Better Together debate does matter because it's an opinion that could be refuted. Just because it's an opinion doesn't always mean you can't be wrong. If you said your favorite color is blue or your favorite food is pizza then I can't prove you wrong so I'd have to respect that. There are some people in this thread that think Camaraderie is a good perk due to a misconception, which is why I'm trying to disprove them, just like all the other perks I've mentioned in the original post. Now by the looks of it, I guess you didn't take any of my key points of this debate into consideration so I'll move on.
Quick and Quiet is only good at stealth when you're near a locker or window so it's situational and you have to time it right, which makes it difficult to use effectively. Dance with me is just garbage as a standalone perk unless you pair it with Lithe so that's an unfair comparison since it's 2 against 1. I do think Fixated needs a buff like making it work every time instead of needing you to be healthy for you to walk faster, similar to Urban Evasion.
I'm curious to know why you disagree about the usage of Inner Strength in a chase but if you don't want to respond then that's fine.
Overall, this was all just a big misunderstanding on your part therefore I hope you read this before you decide to quit the forums for good.
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@SovererignKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/655454#Comment_655454
Well, they aren’t going to wait the full 14 seconds. They’ll give room for error and pull them off at 10 seconds. 10x4 = 40. It’ll be the one person going for the save, they may even be being chased. Even spending 10 seconds to finish a Gen that’s nearly done right next to the guy who’s struggling on the hook.
Just working once is enough to cut healing time in half. Neither needs a buff, they will cut healing time down no matter how you look at it.
I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that every survivor will unhook 10 seconds into Camaraderie as hardly anyone counts the amount of seconds for anything in the game, especially since you have to be dead accurate. It also depends on the situation really. If a killer isn't camping or patrolling the hook then you can save them right then and there. Any good killer will defend a gen that's almost finished, especially when it's next to a hooked survivor so that'll simply never happen. Plus, situations where you'll need Camaraderie to get saved is so minuscule that it's going to be useless in almost every game, especially when the effect is so short.
As for Inner Strength, using up a perk slot just to cut healing time by half once is just not viable in the current meta. I can see it being very useful if you can get it to work during a chase because that's when you're trying to survive. If you use Inner Strength when you're not being chased then you could've just looked for another survivor to heal you. Yes, Inner Strength is faster but not by much and it doesn't justify a perk slot for it. The best way to use this perk effectively is by getting it to work during a chase since there's no way you can repair gens and getting healed by it during a chase is the most optimal time because that's when your life is in danger. If you can't get another survivor to heal you then it should be used, but if you can get healed by a survivor or medkit, then save it for when you're getting chased.
As for Second Wind, well.... I've already gone through it too many times so I won't bother.
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@TRB124 said:
Babysitter is Trash, to be truly effective I need to ensure I unhook them when LOS is blocked. Also it draws the killer’s attention to me, what if I don’t want that?
It needs to last a lot longer. Otherwise I can just run BT which guarantees the survivor a chance at escape and the endurance effect lasts longer than the invisible scratch marks. I’d consider Babysitter the poor man’s BT.
Second wind is very situational. I need to get a full heal on a team mate and it only gets two uses per match. Also I get stuck with the broken status effect while passively healing meaning it can screw you over in endgame if you are running adrenaline and it encourages the killer to tunnel you. This perk would be a whole lot better if you can passively heal while in TR but not in a chase.
Inner strength seems to be the only decent one of the bunch. But it wouldn’t surprise me if it gets nerfed. Assuming you cleansed a totem this can be a great alternative to second wind.
Camanderie is not worth the pick either. It’s also very situational as I’m pretty sure I can count with one hand the amount of times I die before survivor is able to save me. If it were up to me I’d bin the idea of this perk and make a new one.
Fixated can be useful when you scratch mark juke killer. However being injured shouldn’t disable the walking speed boost. Fix that and this is an OK perk.
Better together is a decent perk. Especially if you tend to be on gens a lot. It can give you an idea as to whether your team mates are going to attempt the save. I’d still say Aftercare is a lot better though.
I should've mentioned the terrible 4 second Object of Obsession effect from Babysitter as it can definitely screw up the user in certain situations. Some people have mentioned that this can be pretty good if paired with BT but Babysitter would still be trash because if BT activates, then the killer is already close by or just camping, rendering it useless. Also, the killer can still track the unhooked survivor with Babysitter active by the loud groans they make while injured.
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@SovererignKing said:
Comraderie won’t be used by solo’s but will be abused to hell and back by SWF who will take turns triggering it for 14 extra seconds. 10 extra seconds of Gen Rushing, 40 total which is half a Gen.
Inner Strength and Second Wind will be meta to enhance healing efficiency.
All the developers did was buff the Gen Rush meta.
I'm confused at your math. 14 seconds to 10 seconds to 40 seconds? I don't see how Camaraderie will be abused by swf as a survivor has to be within 16m for it to trigger which means 1 less survivor doing a gen so that isn't buffing gen rush at all, it's doing the opposite.
I doubt Inner Strength and Second Wind are gonna be meta considering there's too many prerequisites for them to work. Also, Inner Strength will probably only work once or twice, since there's only 5 totems and 4 survivors in a match so I think it's fine. As for Second Wind, I don't want to go over it again. Like what someone said earlier, it looks good on paper but in practice, it's garbage. I think it has a lot of potential to be a good perk but it really needs a huge buff for it to be viable in the current meta.
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@Normiree said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/653680#Comment_653680
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/654927#Comment_654927
Derp, what are you talking about? You stated in your first reply that Babysitter does not discourage tunneling. The reason why I agreed with you is because I consider tunneling when the killer goes after the unhooked survivor right after they get unhooked. Babysitter doesn't help with that but instead helps the unhooked survivor escape and highlights the rescuer, discouraging the killer from targeting them. Why are you trying to correct me after I agreed with your first criticism?
The Bond versus Better Together debate does not matter. I just stated in my original post that I do not think that Better Together is a strong perk because I prefer ones that already exist. Why are you so fixated on proving me wrong on a point that does not really matter?
On the topic regarding Fixated, I still do not see how a small increase to walking speed and the ability to see your scratch marks will significantly help in a chase. It improves the survivor's chances, but there are so many better perks for a survivor to take instead of Fixated. On a good note, I can understand your comparison to Windows of Opportunity more.
I get what you are saying about Inner Strength. I do not think that it synergizes well with Quick and Quiet or Head On because they both work best in a chase. You are right about the speculation, but the likeness of it happening is the reason why I pointed it out. I also mentioned Iron Maiden and Hex: Thrill of the Hunt because they help the killer know where the survivor is if they try and use Inner Strength.
I'm sorry if this post sounds defensive or somehow aggressive, but I am just really fed up with the Dbd forums and the community. It's annoying to try and help others through steam discussions or the Dbd forums and end up receiving aggressive responses. The conversation goes from a discussion to a contest of who can prove the other person wrong. It's not specifically this thread, but a combination of different examples, like having random people commenting on my steam profile about how I am wrong about a topic. How do other people deal with the toxicity of this community?
I'm not sure how I came off as offensive in my post but if you were offended by it then that wasn't my intentions at all so relax.
You agreed with me but you followed it up by saying, "What I meant was that the perk discourages the killer from tunneling the unhooked survivor rather than going for the rescuer", which is contradicting. Keep in mind, I said Borrowed Time does that, not Babysitter, since the killer can still tunnel the unhooked survivor when he isn't leaving scratch marks or blood pools.
The Bond versus Better Together debate does matter because it isn't a matter of opinion. Just because you prefer other perks over it doesn't mean it's garbage, its just not suited for your play style. If someone said Balanced Landing or Adrenaline is terrible, you wouldn't say anything? I mean why else would those perks be meta while others aren't being used at all. If it all boiled down to opinions, then I can say Wake Up is really good and you'd have to respect that.
If you think there are perks that are better than Fixated then I would like to know what they are since I don't see any.
Inner Strength synergizes well with Quick and Quiet and Head On because it allows the perk to be used in a chase as well. You use Quick and Quiet to lose the killer mid-chase, wait for the killer to come towards your locker, and hit them with Head On. It will most likely take the killer over 8 seconds to figure out where you are so Inner Strength should've activated by then. After the killer gets stunned, they now have to chase a healthy survivor. As for Thrill of the Hunt and Iron Maiden, they're still trash perks unless used in a gimmicky build and both counters to Inner Strength aren't that good.
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@Deltin said:
hey, survivors are getting 6 perks and killer's are getting 3. i honestly wouldn't complain if i was you.
So I shouldn't complain if half of those 6 survivor perks are trash? Those 3 trash perks are Steve's at the moment which makes it even worse since I wouldn't want to unlock his teachables for the other survivors.
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"You're right that Babysitter does not discourage tunneling. What I meant to say is that the perk discourages the killer from targeting the unhooked survivor instead of their rescuer." In other words, you meant it discourages tunneling.
I agree that Bond and Better Together can be compared to some extent since they both provide information to yourself and the other survivors. Better Together is better in that you can start a gen in the middle or on a gen that'll prevent the 3 gen strat and have others work on it with you. It also lets the survivor know that they shouldn't go towards a gen aura when being chased by the killer. Every time I'm about to finish a gen, which is usually at around 80-95% progression, a survivor brings the killer to me and goes down right next to it. They get hooked and then the killer kicks the gen with Pop Goes the Weasel. Now the progression goes down to like 50% and I have to do all that work again. Even then, the killer now knows the gen is almost done so they defend it to prevent me or any survivor from completing it. Also, being able to see every survivor after you complete a gen is pretty helpful in that it can let you know if you should do another gen or go for the hook save. Bond's range is only 4 meters more than Inner Strength so saying Bond is better in that aspect doesn't really matter since it's so minimal.
As for Fixated, I compared it to Windows of Opportunity because they both provide information on how to survive against the killer during a chase. Fixated can be used by itself or paired with Lightweight to help you manipulate the scratch marks, which could make the killer lose you during a chase. As for Windows of Opportunity, it's self explanatory. Walking 20% faster is good for the same reason as Urban Evasion. It helps you hide better by making you move around faster, which in turn, helps you change hiding spots when the killer is looking for you, and can enable you to lose the killer's line of sight around corners when your not producing scratch marks. I've also had moments where I run around the map but I know the killer is coming near my location so i start hiding. I continue to hide, thinking the scratch marks will go away by the time the killer comes close but I end up miscalculating it and get caught. In this situation, the perk will let me know if I should hide or just run away.
Inner Strength can be paired with Quick and Quit, Head On, or both to make it more efficient. Now saying the perk probably isn't going to be that good because it might be nerfed in the future is just speculation. Iron Maiden is just a garbage perk and I don't think it's a good counter to Inner Strength because the exposed effect is only 15 seconds long, which survivors can easily last before getting hit. Thrill of the Hunt is also a pretty bad counter since you're just wasting a perk slot to defend dull totems unless you're running another hex totem like Ruin or something but even then, it can easily be cleansed since most killers don't have that much map pressure.
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@SurvJoe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/653767#Comment_653767
useless is being able to hit hooked survs i think
I'm not sure how getting hit by a killer while on the hook would make the game unfun. If anything it wastes the killer's time which is a good thing for survivors. Also, this would be a problem if a survivor looped around someone that's hooked, got 360'd, or a survivor used dead hard near them. As for it being toxic, you have to get over it. The devs aren't going to remove something from the game just because your feelings got hurt.
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@Normiree said:
I think the main problem with Second Wind is not that it does not have the potential to save a lot of time. Instead, the problem is that the perk is incredibly situational and promotes tunneling. The prerequisite is already somewhat high. That's fine, but it does not justify having the broken status effect, the perk not working in the killer's terror radius or its deactivation when downed.
I agree that while Camaraderie needs a rework. However, Babysitter is in a solid spot. It is not meant to be powerful, but instead courteous as it discourages tunneling. I think the only thing that would make it better is if it granted a post-game Bloodpoint bonus if the rescuer takes a protection hit or something similar.
Nancy's perks are not better, though. Better Together is nice to have, but I still would prefer Bond, considering it has a broader range. Fixated seems useless, and I don't think that Inner Strength will be that much more helpful. Considering it does not get nerfed within a week of its release, killers will start using builds that counter the perk.
Babysitter doesn't discourage tunneling, BT does that. Babysitter just helps the unhooked survivor hide from the killer or lose track of them which is pointless because BT literally prevents you from going down and if a killer is closing in or camping them then there's no point in leaving no scratch marks or blood pools as they already know where the survivor is heading. I can see it being kind of useful against stealthy killers that makes BT difficult to trigger but not by much. Better Together allows every survivor to see the aura of the gen you are working on within 32 meters while Bond is only 4 meters more and only shows the aura of survivors to the person that's using it so comparing the two perks together just doesn't work. Fixated can be useful to lose the killer in certain loops and walking 20% faster can also come in handy in many situations. To put it simply, Fixated is kind of like Windows of Opportunity but with scratch marks and Urban Evasion but for walking combined as this perk can come in handy mid-chase or when you're trying to hide. As for Inner Strength, you can do some pretty sick plays with it by hiding in a locker mid chase and then have this activate but it's pretty difficult to do which is the downside but I'd say it's worth the risk.
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@Hoodied said:
Inner strength, head-on, small game, q&q
Because NoEd is in pain and will soon need a defib to revive it
That build is probably gonna be pretty common when the chapter comes out which I'm not looking forward to because Head On is a difficult perk to get the timing right and if you mess it up then you just screwed yourself instead of just looping the killer. With how difficult it is to use this build effectively, I kind of expect a a couple survivors to get grabbed from a locker here and there.
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I think the funniest is when you get in front of the killer's screen during a mori animation and taunting them because I'm right there while they're killing someone but they can't do anything. Another one is seeing a survivor moonwalk from a distance where they can't see you, especially when you see them with Bond or Empathy. Also when a survivor looks up at the sky after failing a generator skill check or something. And don't forget all the bugs that make the survivors/killers look even more ridiculous than they already are.
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Lets be real here though. The only reason most people are relying on shards to buy cosmetics is because of how expensive they are with auric cells. I mean 10 dollars just to buy 1 purple outfit is ridiculous considering the fact that that's half the price of the game itself. People wouldn't be complaining about this so much If they just lowered the goddamn auric prices.
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@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/652406#Comment_652406
Fine then. One Survivor. Here.
16 second heal x 2 is 32. 32 seconds could be the difference between life or death. I'm sure you've been there before. Seconds after you down, the last gen barely missed your Adrenaline, costing you an escape.
It takes 20 seconds for the perk to heal you at tier 3 so lets get that straight. As for it being the difference between life or death, there are a lot of perks that help you stay alive but do it way better. BT, DS, Adrenaline, any exhaustion perk, Bond, Spine Chill and so on. I've already stated the reason as to why Second Wind is trash so I'm not gonna repeat myself.
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@ElusivePukka said:
Yeah, 16 seconds does make this a good perk. 16 seconds is nearly a fourth of a generator from one person, nearly half in total because 16 seconds is the time it takes someone to heal a teammate - Self Care takes longer. These numbers are why there's currently an issue of a 'no heal meta' - and I'm not even talking about the 'no cleanse meta' around plague.
I agree that it's an issue to have it be so situational, like WGLF or Deliverance, but there's no indication that Second Wind only works once (Inner Strength is another perk people seem to falsely think is only activatable once) by the current notes we have.
Using up a perk slot to save 16 seconds that isn't even guaranteed to work. Wow that's so useful. I'd argue that botany saves a bit more than 16 seconds as it works every time and you tend to heal survivors at least a few times per game.
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@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/652354#Comment_652354
It really is. If all 4 Survivors run this perk, let's do some simple math.
4 Survivors x 16 saved seconds = 64
That's around 3/4 of a gen. And I'm still not done.
64 x 2, because it takes 2 Survivors to do a 16 second heal.
128 seconds is as much as a gen and a half. This isn't even taking into effect killer perks like Sloppy Butcher, Thanatophobia, or Clownphobia, which this perk ignores, saving even more time.
lol good luck getting all 4 survivors to use it. Also that logic applies to a lot of perks in the game as well. Every survivor running BT, DS, open handed, kindred, etc will obviously make it more effective but that doesn't mean the perk is good. Plus, if you have to rely on other survivors to use the same perk as you to make it viable, then its garbage. You're also forgetting the fact that the perk isn't guaranteed to work.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/652299#Comment_652299
Your first sentence is contradicting. If your fine with the grind, then you shouldnt have a problem with how long it takes.
Okay well what I meant by the first sentence is that I don't mind if it takes a few days to unlock a cosmetic but 1 week is too much. I mean unlocking 1 cosmetic in a few days is still a grind but yeah I should've worded it better.
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@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/651751#Comment_651751
I'm saying Second Wind is good. You can be doing a gen and heal, which is 16+ seconds you would have wasted healing.
Okay so saving 16 seconds of time from healing makes this a good perk? Keep in mind that you need to heal another survivor fully before it can even activate and then you have to get unhooked and then after that you have to be out of the killer's terror radius for it to start healing. I mean all those steps just to save 16 seconds sounds like sh*t to me. Also I'm not sure if this is true or not but I believe this perk only works once which makes it even worse for such a mediocre effect.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/652270#Comment_652270
Considering these are purely cosmetic aspects...I dont see it a problem for you to have to grind for it. The cost of characters are pretty fair when bought with shards, and a perk in the shrine can be bought with the shards you obtain during that week.
Well I'm fine with the grind except for the fact that it takes too fking long to get at least 1 cosmetic. As a survivor main, it gets pretty bland after playing a survivor with the same clothes over and over again which makes me want to buy new ones but when it takes a week just to buy 1 cosmetic, it gets frustrating. Also buying characters or perks with shards is pointless for some players because they've already unlocked all of them.
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I play regularly and It still takes me about a week just to get 1 purple cosmetic which costs 7200 shards. Maybe reward like 5000 shards for lvling to 100 and reward more shards per lvl. I believe it takes like 4-6 games just to get 300 shards at lvls 50-100. Getting 50-300 shards per lvl is just too low considering the fact that it takes like 3-5 minutes to find a game and then it takes about another 10-15 minutes to finish it. They're already updating the bloodweb to cut the grind down a bit so I'm hopeful that they'll do the same for the cosmetics soon.
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@Awakey said:
Second wind says hello.
I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean but okay.
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Thaznar's suggestion is just a bit clunky. A simple solution to making this a viable perk is to slow down the struggle phase timer by 50% if the killer is within 16m of the hook. To increase its effectiveness, you can pair it with Kindred and Open Handed to punish the killer even further. Also like someone suggested earlier, give a 100% bonus bloodpoints to the survival category as its pretty difficult to get bp on survival and survivors really need more perks that give extra bp.