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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/685322#Comment_685322
#########? No.
I bought the whole skin and I love it.
What is this bizarre obsession with every survivor needing to be physically appealing to everyone? Think they're ugly and that's important to you for some reason? Don't play them.
Everyone wants a character to be pleasing to the eye. It isn't rocket science. They're just complaining that Nea looks terrible without any cosmetics and the new ones she's getting still makes her look like [BAD WORD] for most people. I mean, have you seen her head with the sideburns? It's like they're trying to make her look like a monster on purpose.
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I think Spirit Fury needs a nerf because it's so easy to activate. Just break 2 pallets out of like what, 30 pallets in a match? Especially when you pair it with Enduring, it's beyond broken. Dropping pallets early is a terrible counter against it since it prevents you from looping the killer again and they just kick it immediately afterwards, which shortens every pallet loop so it adds up. Also, I'd say having to use 2 perk slots for it is definitely worth it since it basically guarantees a hit whenever you get pallet stunned, which isn't hard to do and gets you kills a lot faster. I'm just gonna assume that killer mains got very bored with the playstyle of Fury + Enduring since it was used in almost every game not too long ago yet I'm pretty sure it's still viable in the current meta.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/676833#Comment_676833
"The better survivors aren't the majority, which is what I'm talking about. Even if they know where all the hatch spawns are, it's still based on rng so they have to run all over the map to find it. It can take a while or it can take a short amount of time, but in the end, it's still inconsistent."
One, we ought to be balancing the game around high-level play, so I'm not concerned with the lower-level players in this case. Two, I'm not convinced that finding the Hatch takes as long as you seem to imply, even if you get the raw end of RNG.
"Finding someone without any aura perks/addons will take ages and you know that. Even if you found another survivor, they can get chased by the killer or become preoccupied with other objectives. You don't get many situations where its possible or better to open the hatch than doing the last 1 or 2 remaining gens, which is what I've been trying to say. It's too situational and you seem to be agreeing with me since you're saying it doesn't happen all the time.
Once again, I mentioned this because it's situational. You won't always get a chance to show a survivor you got a key since everyone is doing their own thing."
I don't agree with your assessment. Also, me saying "it doesn't happen all the time" is not me agreeing that it is too situational.
"My point was that even if survivors knew you had a key, it wouldn't matter that they have that knowledge since it won't work on them anymore. Also, some survivors won't remember or know you have it most of the time so you have to remind them, which is why I said that if they die, then letting them know you have a key was just pointless. If a survivor doesn't like bringing one in game because it doesn't work often, then that means it's too situational, not because they're incompetent. Any other item in the game works throughout the match even without addons but keys only work towards the end, when all the gens are done or when survivors get killed with most of the gens done. If you add the fact that the hatch spawns randomly, the way keys work is mostly based on rng."
If the person you were hoping to hop into the Hatch with dies before the Hatch is there, you just find someone else. This isn't as hard as you are making it out to be. Also, what you're describing is starting to get into the whole "incompetency" thing. And yes, I would very much argue that it is a sign of lack of skill. That's like saying "I don't like bringing in Adrenaline because it's too inconsistent."
"Okay, so now you're contradicting yourself again. I said keys need a buff because it isn't that good for solo que players and then you said you don't disagree with me, but now you're saying I can't convince you that keys need a buff."
NOOOOOOOnonononono. I thought you said that in general solo play needs some sort of buff. That I can get on board with. I did not realize at the time that you meant that we should buff keys. I am 100% against the idea of buffing Keys.
It's best if the game was balanced around low level and high level play, otherwise you'll have players quitting in the lower ranks due to how unbalanced the game is.
Okay, then lets just end the discussion here. No matter what I say, you'll still disagree with me, even though my points are valid. I mean, I don't know what else to say since you're not explaining why you still disagree with me. Also, saying it doesn't happen all the time still implies that its situational.
I now understand that you got confused with what I was trying to say but like I said, the only reason keys are good in swf and bad in solo que is because of the disparity in information the two modes give to survivors, which is why I think it needs a buff.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/676660#Comment_676660
"I was specifically talking about solo que here so bringing up swf was just unnecessary. If you think it's easy to find the hatch, then that's great, but I'm talking about the majority of players here. There are 32 maps and all of them have spawns that are different from one another. I know some will spawn at the same location like Badham with the boiler rooms but you get the idea."
The better Survivors are able to find the Hatch pretty reliably. Not every time, but certainly more than you are making it out to be. Not even "best of the best." Just "better."
"I'm talking about situations where it can be a pain to get a survivor to follow you. I mean, yeah, if you can get near a survivor and let them know you got a key, then it's fine, but that doesn't happen all the time since they don't know where you are most of the time so they end up running the other way. Plus, not knowing you have a key means they're not going to bother searching for you. I've already stated the reasons as to why keys are hard to identify so I'll move on."
I'm not saying it happens all the time, but meeting up with a Survivor by chance is not some rare occurrence that you can't rely on if you are trying to escape with the Key. If you want to find someone, you will eventually do it.
"I agree that you can just drop it in front of them while working on a gen together, but there are times where it's better to just work on a gen by yourself instead of searching for another survivor."
Why wouldn't you do a gen instead of searching for someone if you have the means to? I'm talking about something you do in between doing your objectives, not something you go way out of your way for at the expense of your objective.
"Even if you show them the key, they need to stay alive in the late game for them to escape with you, which is what makes it so situational. It isn't an issue, but it's part of the reason why I think it isn't as good as you think it is, which is why I brought it up in the first place. Dying before the hatch spawns isn't due to incompetence since it depends on the situation (mindgames, tunneling, camping, strategy, type of killer, perk build, etc)."
Considering that someone needs to die before the Hatch spawns early, that's not exactly a bad thing for you. Dying before the Hatch spawns isn't inherently incompetence, but someone believing that the Key isn't worth using because they find that they are more often than not unable to stay alive long enough to use it is a pretty strong sign that they may not be that great of a Survivor.
"In an earlier post, you said, "I'm down for rebalancing both Keys and Moris. "Giving either side the ability to end the game early just does not sit right with me." You then replied to my post by saying, "The problem is with being able to open it prematurely and escape with 2-3 people. It is not as difficult as you make it out to be to find the Hatch before it's open, find someone, have them follow you to the Hatch, and then make the escape." Bringing up the fact that keys aren't that good and needs a buff for solo que was the whole point of this argument but now I'm not sure what we're arguing about since you're just contradicting yourself."
If you are suggesting we buff Keys for the sake of solo play, you are never going to get me to agree with you.
The better survivors aren't the majority, which is what I'm talking about. Even if they know where all the hatch spawns are, it's still based on rng so they have to run all over the map to find it. It can take a while or it can take a short amount of time, but in the end, it's still inconsistent.
Finding someone without any aura perks/addons will take ages and you know that. Even if you found another survivor, they can get chased by the killer or become preoccupied with other objectives. You don't get many situations where its possible or better to open the hatch than doing the last 1 or 2 remaining gens, which is what I've been trying to say. It's too situational and you seem to be agreeing with me since you're saying it doesn't happen all the time.
Once again, I mentioned this because it's situational. You won't always get a chance to show a survivor you got a key since everyone is doing their own thing.
My point was that even if survivors knew you had a key, it wouldn't matter that they have that knowledge since it won't work on them anymore. Also, some survivors won't remember or know you have it most of the time so you have to remind them, which is why I said that if they die, then letting them know you have a key was just pointless. If a survivor doesn't like bringing one in game because it doesn't work often, then that means it's too situational, not because they're incompetent. Any other item in the game works throughout the match even without addons but keys only work towards the end, when all the gens are done or when survivors get killed with most of the gens done. If you add the fact that the hatch spawns randomly, the way keys work is mostly based on rng.
Okay, so now you're contradicting yourself again. I said keys need a buff because it isn't that good for solo que players and then you said you don't disagree with me, but now you're saying I can't convince you that keys need a buff.
This honestly feels like a pissing contest at this point since you're just making me repeat myself over and over again so if you don't have anything new to say, I'm not responding any further.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/676504#Comment_676504
"I'm not sure what you mean for the swf but whatever. I know I already said this earlier, but memorizing all of that is still pretty difficult. Plus, it still spawns at a random location therefore it still takes a while to find it, even if you know where all the locations are."
I mean that it is good as solo and even better as SWF. And I'm just gonna have to disagree with you on the Hatch taking a long time to find.
"I wouldn't really call that incompetence since there can be many reasons why they're focused on what's ahead of them without knowing I'm behind them. Plus, If I had Bond or Empathy, there's no way they'd be able to see me from a distance."
Unless you're trying to get their attention from waaaaaaaaaay out, I can't imagine a good reason why it would take more than a couple of seconds to get their attention.
"I was talking about the early game or before the hatch spawns."
Why? As long as the Hatch isn't in play yet, there's no reason to distract someone from doing gens so they can look at your key.
"The main issue with keys is that it only works towards the end of the game where you're most likely to die before even using it. The aura addons are pretty garbage due to the channeling so I wouldn't count those"
That's not an issue. That's just how the items works. If you think you're "most likely to die before using it," that says more about the player level than about the item itself.
"I don't know about you but I think they really need a buff for solo que players since they only work effectively with good information, which solo que players lack."
I don't disagree with that, but keys being problematic doesn't really factor into that discussion.
I was specifically talking about solo que here so bringing up swf was just unnecessary. If you think it's easy to find the hatch, then that's great, but I'm talking about the majority of players here. There are 32 maps and all of them have spawns that are different from one another. I know some will spawn at the same location like Badham with the boiler rooms but you get the idea.
I'm talking about situations where it can be a pain to get a survivor to follow you. I mean, yeah, if you can get near a survivor and let them know you got a key, then it's fine, but that doesn't happen all the time since they don't know where you are most of the time so they end up running the other way. Plus, not knowing you have a key means they're not going to bother searching for you. I've already stated the reasons as to why keys are hard to identify so I'll move on.
I agree that you can just drop it in front of them while working on a gen together, but there are times where it's better to just work on a gen by yourself instead of searching for another survivor.
Even if you show them the key, they need to stay alive in the late game for them to escape with you, which is what makes it so situational. It isn't an issue, but it's part of the reason why I think it isn't as good as you think it is, which is why I brought it up in the first place. Dying before the hatch spawns isn't due to incompetence since it depends on the situation (mindgames, tunneling, camping, strategy, type of killer, perk build, etc).
In an earlier post, you said, "I'm down for rebalancing both Keys and Moris. "Giving either side the ability to end the game early just does not sit right with me." You then replied to my post by saying, "The problem is with being able to open it prematurely and escape with 2-3 people. It is not as difficult as you make it out to be to find the Hatch before it's open, find someone, have them follow you to the Hatch, and then make the escape." Bringing up the fact that keys aren't that good and needs a buff for solo que was the whole point of this argument but now I'm not sure what we're arguing about since you're just contradicting yourself.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/675021#Comment_675021
I brought up SWF to signal that what I was describing was the worst-case scenario and that it can only get better from there. And solid Survivors have things like the totem spawns and Hatch spawns memorized pretty well.
Firstly, if it takes you that long to get a Survivor's attention and they're not, like, trying to make a Hook save, then either you or they are doing something wrong. I would probably chalk that up to incompetence. And idk why you need to hope they don't die early once you are leading them to the Hatch. It does not take that long to lead one person to the Hatch. I really don't think they're nearly as situational as you make it.
I'm not sure what you mean for the swf but whatever. I know I already said this earlier, but memorizing all of that is still pretty difficult. Plus, it still spawns at a random location therefore it still takes a while to find it, even if you know where all the locations are.
I wouldn't really call that incompetence since there can be many reasons why they're focused on what's ahead of them without knowing I'm behind them. Plus, If I had Bond or Empathy, there's no way they'd be able to see me from a distance.
I was talking about the early game or before the hatch spawns. You do this when you find the key from a chest or to remind them that you have it since it's easy to forget that they brought it in due to how small and dark it is. The main issue with keys is that it only works towards the end of the game where you're most likely to die before even using it. The aura addons are pretty garbage due to the channeling so I wouldn't count those. I don't know about you but I think they really need a buff for solo que players since they only work effectively with good information, which solo que players lack.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/674951#Comment_674951
And I am largely talking about solo queue as well. For skilled Survivors, it is possible for them to check places where the Hatch is expected to spawn (since, like most other things, they spawn in specific locations and aren't just anywhere on the map at complete random). Just my opinion, but I think you overestimate how difficult finding the Hatch is. It's not as simple as finding the Hatch in one-two-three, but you can find it without too much fuss if you understand where to look.
Sure, a Survivor might be occupied with something else and not see you at first, but you should be able to get their attention pretty quickly if you start following them. You don't need to see them bring the Key into the Match at the start for you to be aware (perhaps they got lucky and found it in a Chest). You can just see them come up to you at some point holding the Key and then go from there. Someone being pre-occupied with a hook save is a different story, but that isn't really the sort of scenario I'm talking about.
Okay, then I'm not sure why you brought up swf in the first place. Yes, it does spawn in specific locations but its still random on where it spawns so it still takes a while to search for it. Plus, knowing every single hatch spawn for every map is still difficult to memorize for players with hundreds or even thousands of hours into the game.
It takes a while for you to catch up to them depending on the situation. I mean, I know you can drop it in front of them to let them know you have it, but even then, you still need to hope that that survivor doesn't die early. Overall, they're just too situational and won't work most of the time, which is why I still don't think they're that good.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/674854#Comment_674854
I disagree, for the most part. Obviously, if the fourth gen pops and you've got the last gen close to finished, you are better off just popping that sucker and going from there. But if you have the Key, the fourth gen clears, and you have no way of really knowing at that moment what the progress of the other gens are (assuming in both scenarios that the Hatch has spawned), your best bet is to just go for the alternate finish line right there. At that point, you are able to play much more stealthily because you aren't forcing yourself to sit on a Gen that the Killer always knows the location of, and once you do find the Hatch, all you really need to do is find one other person and make it back. And that's assuming you're playing solo. If you are in SWF comms with even one person, it's just a matter of one of the two people going "K, I found the Hatch; meet at X location." Meanwhile, if the Killer suspects that someone has the Key and is going for a Hatch play, not only do they need to be conscious of that, but they still need to be conscious of the Gens in the event that their hunch is wrong.
I don't really factor teammate incompetency into this. If they see that you have a key and that you are motioning for them to follow you, it's on them to put two and two together. You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out why someone holding the key wants you to follow them if the Hatch has spawned.
I'm talking about solo que here. Keys just aren't that good in solo que since you have no communication and not that much information on whats going on. Swf with voice chat gives you communication and information so that makes keys a bit op for them. Searching for the hatch when there's only 1 gen left is situational really. If a survivor is chasing the killer for a while, then it's better to just get the last gen done. If not, then looking for it is better, but you can still get punished if you take too long or you just can't find it. You need to decide which is the right play, depending on the situation.
I didn't really factor teammate incompetency into this. All I said is that sometimes, a survivor doesn't know you're near them with a key so they don't turn around and keep running the other direction, which I don't blame since like i mentioned earlier, lack of information and communication. Plus, they can be focused on whats in front of them for good reasons like going for the save, watching the killer's movements, etc. Seeing a survivor bringing a key in a match is very difficult since it's so small and blends into the environment. Sometimes, I just do something else while the game is about to start so I have no knowledge of a key being in the match.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/674770#Comment_674770
Just my opinion, but I think you are understating the impact a key can have. Keys are fine IMO when they are used to open the Hatch after the Killer has closed it. They're also fine, oddly enough, for a four-man Hatch escape because that requires the gens to all be done, so all you're doing at that point is using an alternate means of escape when the primary means is accessible. The problem is with being able to open it prematurely and escape with 2-3 people. It is not as difficult as you make it out to be to find the Hatch before it's open, find someone, have them follow you to the Hatch, and then make the escape. Even if there are three people left and you only get two out, the Killer is now suddenly stuck with only two kills at best and at risk of only one with no warning. And the worst part is that there is little the Killer can do about it outside of being in the right place at the right time. They can't even counterplay it with something like Franklin's Demise because there is nothing stopping someone from just noting the Key's location and picking it up later.
I already thought of this scenario and I still think it's fine. Most of the time, it's better if you just got the last gen done instead of searching for the hatch, since it could take too long. If you already found it, you have to search for the others and have them follow you, but sometimes, they'll just run the other way without looking back, not knowing you got a key. The only time you should open the hatch with the others is when you get 3 genned, the hatch location is known, or it's just you and 1 other survivor left, but even then, you and the other person can get caught easily since both of you are running all over the place trying to find it.
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@deadbyhitbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/674746#Comment_674746
Some people have 100's of them stalked up already. There needs to be an actual change to them.
Mories definitely need a nerf but I think keys are fine. Finding the hatch is very difficult and it takes a while to spawn. If the person with the key is the last one alive, then you're gonna have to defend both the hatch and the gate. If you can't then tough luck. Overall, they're just not that good since it's only useful towards the end of the game and you're most likely to die before you even have the chance to use it, unless you just don't care about the other survivors and get out through the hatch all by yourself.
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@AshleyWB said:
The thing which holds hag back is how Survivors can watch what she does and sabotage her whole set up when she's busy doing something else. She's a little slow so traps are the thing which she relies on to make the type of plays other killers can't. Survivors with a good eye and idea of what the hag is doing can really make it a tough game.
When hags dominate it's usually down to impatience poor awareness and clumsy plays from Survivors in my experience. She is a very decent killer in the right hands.
You can't really focus on where the Hag's placing her traps most of the time, unless you're hiding or something. Also, the only way to get rid of her traps is through flashlights, which is pretty uncommon therefore survivors are forced to crouch or go somewhere else but this means the trap will trigger eventually.
There just isn't that much counter play against her traps and the counters to them aren't that good to begin with. I mean, she's a killer with 110% movement speed but she can just place traps anywhere she wants, which forces survivors to go to another loop.
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S tier: Nurse
A tier: Spirit, Hillbilly, Hag
B tier: Nightmare, Huntress, Demogorgon
C tier: Plague, Ghost Face, Trapper, Myers
D tier: Wraith, Legion, Clown
F tier: Pig, Leatherface, Doctor
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Why didn't they just make it so that you can't be the obsession when using it? I mean, if you become the obsession, then wouldn't this addon be completely useless?
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@MongByeolBuddies said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/665898#Comment_665898
Good question.
I think one-time use would be better than unlimited uses; however, I'd be open to making it unlimited uses if people think that would be better.
My reasoning is that one-time use matches Decisive Strike, which essentially does the same thing as this perk under different conditions, and one-time use fits the horror theme more -- getting one more chance to survive but if you get caught again, you're dead.
However, if it were unlimited uses, essentially giving you a permanent Mori shield as long as you hit the skill checks, the killer can simply hook you if they catch you again.
Which do you guys think would be better?
Its better if its just a one time use since you're about to get killed, while DS is used on the killer's shoulder so you're not going to die yet. Also, unlimited use is just unfair so I'm gonna say no to that.
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@avilmask said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/666184#Comment_666184
People don't need a reason to complain. But any way, let's say for the same reason, why killers complain about insta-heals and keys.
As I said before, your suggestion makes so one survivor will HAVE to hide the whole game. It'll be in a mindset that "you should never show up because it counters mori". It's bad on it's own, yet it'll be justified, and other people gonna be justified to flame on that person for showing themselves. PLUS there still will be a problem "mori basically removes one survivor because they can't do anything but hide to counter mori!". As I said, people don't need much to complain about things.
People do need a reason to complain about something if they want people to listen to them, otherwise they're just gonna be ignored. I won't lie, instaheals are op and need to be nerfed. As for keys, they're not even that good but I can understand why killer's don't like it. Overall, they have issues of their own but don't compare anywhere near to moris so it shouldn't even be brought it up here in the first place.
Hiding is a strategy other than looping for survivors so I don't see why that's such a big issue. If a survivor thinks that that's the right strategy to play around a mori, then that's fine. Plus, if you're in high ranks and you keep thinking you should hide to play around a mori all game, then you're a bad player period. Flaming on a person for not hiding is just stupid because it's situational. You have to decide which play is the best, depending on the situation, just like any other game. Like I mentioned earlier, if you can play safe and won't hinder the team, then that's what you should do. If you have to play risky to save your team, then do that instead, since getting your whole team killed defeats the purpose of playing around a mori as the one survivor that hasn't gotten hooked.
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@avilmask said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/666166#Comment_666166
50% of the reason why BBQ is so popular is BP bonus. Yes, red ranks also love BP. It's more popular than survivors version because it's easier to do, plus with a nice bonus of vision, but not so bad when it doesn't do it.
When survivors team dies anyway, there is no point in a mori. Mori is cool when it's impactful or isn't hard to do. That's why yellow mori is trash.
Okay but my suggestion would still make moris impactful but a bit harder to use since the mori right now is just bs. Also, a mori isn't cool when its so easy to use for such a ridiculously powerful effect. Explain why some survivors just dc when theres a mori before a game starts or survivors complaining about it over and over again.
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@avilmask said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/666109#Comment_666109
The higher in the rank you get, the more often you don't see anybody with BBQ. So yes, they do hide all the time if possible. If not, they try to fake a direction in which they're moving. So they WILL try to deny a mori every time. And it'll be a legit execuse to never help anybody because "I'm the only one not hooked yet". Promotes bad behavior.
BBQ is still one of the most used perks in red ranks so I don't know what you're talking about.
2nd, If a survivor decides to hide to prevent a killer from using his mori then that's a strategy the survivor is using to prevent the others from getting killed similar to hiding in a locker to counter BBQ. Also, it really depends on the situation. If that one survivor hasn't been hooked yet and can afford to play safe, then it's best if they do so. If not, then it's better if they take risks to save their teammates from dying since there's no point in trying to prevent a mori if their team is getting destroyed.
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@avilmask said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/666086#Comment_666086
That only means that one person that never been hooked should hide endlessly to deny a mori. And it'll be a "good play". P3 Claudette dream "I hid the whole game so killer couldn't fish us all quickly!"
Yeah and you can say the same for BBQ but do they hide in a locker all the time? No they don't, and even if they do, they're going to get caught eventually so I don't see a problem with this. Mories shouldn't be so easy to use since it has one of the strongest effect in the game therefore it should have a more difficult prerequisite for killers to make it balanced, just like everything else in the game.
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@Maelstrom10 said:
Those hooks could be on anyone, but they'd delay the game long enough to get the ball rolling. And it would also feel earned somewhat. Devour hope requires 5 hooks. Make the ebony require 4 Individual hooks, with no other restrictions.
Someone suggested that the killer can only mori after hooking all 4 survivors once, similar to bbq and the bloodpoint stack. I think this suggestion is the best since it discourages the killer from tunneling, which I think is the main issue with moris atm. A killer can easily camp or tunnel a survivor and kill them within like 60 seconds.
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To be honest though, I never run DS but I sometimes get into a locker when I get tunneled so this basically tells the killer to go for someone else, take the 50/50, or wait that 60 seconds if they want me. I only do this if there isn't a pallet or window near me. Also, I stopped using DS after realizing that it only works like 30% of the time since killers are playing around it in almost every game and yet they're still doing fine so DS is okay as it is.
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@prettyf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/664607#Comment_664607
least you had "some" intelligent there
got something from non english level sentence
still lack of intuition though
So you're calling us stupid for not understanding what your post is saying? I mean, aside from the bad English, you didn't even explain anything in detail and why it should be implemented.
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@Gcarrara said:
Interesting idea. Would love to have the Pharmacy variant for other items. 😀
Except they're still gonna be garbage though. With Pharmacy, instead of just giving a green medkit, it should come with gauze roll and gel dressing addons to get multiple heals off of it. Same with the toolbox and flashlight idea, give them more charges through addons to make it last longer in the game.
@8obot1c said:
Searches through chests are 40%/60%/80% faster and the noises they cause along with their hearing distance is reduced by 8 meters. Nature’s Toolshed guarantees a commodious Toolbox on your first completes chest search.
If pharmacy is equipped you will get an emergency medkit before you get a commodious toolbox.
There could also be one with a flashlight and you get a green one maybe and it goes 1. Medkit 2. Toolbox 3. Flashlight
There shouldn't be an order of which perk works first since it takes away the mystery of what you're gonna get from all the chests. They should make it so that they don't work together. So whichever perk you put in your first slot will work but the others won't.
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@Mike2550 said:
So noticing that on the main menu screen there are the icons to different tabs that are actually in game perk icons. The one I always notice is the store icon which is a briefcase with the entity claws coming out of it, which makes me really want a perk that makes fake chests. The idea is,
--Spawns 2/3/4 fake chests around the map. When completed by a survivor they cause them to scream, revealing their location and the entity claws come out to hold them in place for 10 seconds or until hit (numbers can change for balance.)—
I’d love some form of chest mechanic, as of right now it’s just a free item, with this it could make survivors second guess just rummaging through chests. It doesn’t replace current real chests, but it can work with the killers Cut coin/ Scratched coin chest add on.
I’d say it’s a little counter to plunderers instinct, shows the chests (sorta like windows shows vault spots even if it’s fake pallet). It would instead be countered by a map with the add on that lets you track killer belongings. Even small game can determine if it’s fake, any perk or map that specifically spots killer belongings would give it away. Calm spirit can also slightly counter as you won’t scream, only be held in place.
Chests are usually just considered a pretty safe thing to do, aside from the noise, but you get bloodpoints and an item from it. I can imagine the panic when you open up the fake chest and a burst of dark energy flows out, claws wrapping around your person as your pulled toward the chest against your will and the terrified scream. The entity toying with the survivors in the match to really show off its nature of playing death games.
I like the idea except hold the survivor in place for 3 seconds instead of 10 since that'll definitely be enough time for the killer to reach the survivor when not chasing someone.
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@MongByeolBuddies said:
When the killer attempts to Mori you, succeed a Skill Check to upkick the killer and stun them for 5 seconds, and recover from the dying state.
Receive 30/40/50 percent more bloodpoints for surviving the trial.
What do you think?
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The vanilla Mom was OP, and the reworked MoM is not good.
My idea is to turn MoM into a Mori defense perk. It also fits the theme of Mettle of Man and is something Ash would be capable of doing. The added bloodpoints is to make the perk not a wasted perk slot when killers don't bring a Mori.
Well, there isn't going to be a nerf/counter to moris anytime soon and it's a meme perk so I'm all for it. +1
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@Fab said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/665156#Comment_665156
TBF, most survivors stall out the timer anyway.
True, but if a perk or item made them stall the game out, then it would be justified and there'd be nothing the killer can say about it. It's just unhealthy for the game so it shouldn't be a thing.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
1st Idea) Numbers way too hight. That would be way too much.
2nd Idea) Wake Up 2.0? Ehh, no.
I would like if that perk would just show me aura of hatch near me. Let's say 24 / 32 / 40 meters.
Well it's not just the same as Wake Up since the lights don't show when you open a gate. That's pretty big since you can open a gate and then when the killer is coming, you can just hide and then go back to opening it after they leave. The faster progression and movement speed will make it a bit easier to open a gate but that's fine since it's the last resort to escaping after the hatch is closed.
Now seeing a hatch from 40 meters would make keys broken beyond belief, especially when all it takes is 1 survivor to bring one in a game for them to pick it up and use it for endgame.
@Fab said:
1st idea is a hard pass. Imagine all 4 survivors running it. Ya, no... gens will be done too quickly.
2nd idea is a step in the right direction but it feels like it’s just a budget version of Wake Up.
My Idea: When you’re the last survivor alive and EGC has been started, the aura of the hatch is revealed to you when within 36 meters. Once 60 seconds have passed, the hatch will reopen and stay open for 4/8/12 seconds for every Generator that was repaired.
That's even more broken than the last suggestion since you don't even need a key to get out through the hatch. Also, waiting 60 seconds for it to open is just encouraging the survivor to stall the game out so that's just terrible.
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@Guertena said:
This is not an introduction
As we know, this is the most useless perk in the game and after the End Game Collapse, it turned more useless yet, as after closing the hatch all generators are blocked and the timer counts down. So I have here some ideas for a rework and make it a little bit more useful.
Actual perk
You'll get the job done... No matter the cost.
If you are the last Survivor remaining in the Trial, for each Generator that needs to be completed, gain a 55/65/75 % bonus to Repair speed.
First idea
You'll get the job done... No matter the cost.
For each killed or sacrificed survivor you receive a token, up to a maximum of 1/2/3.
As the Killer's obsession, each token gives you a 25% repair speed. Otherwise, each token gives you a 20% repair speed.
Increases your chances of being the Obsession.
The Killer can only be obsessed with one Survivor at a time.
Second idea
You were left behind to death... But you know what to do.
Once the End Game Colapse starts and you are the last survivor alive, the perk actives.
As the Killer's obsession, you open the Exit Gates 10% faster. Otherwise, you open the Exit Gates 5% faster.
Plus, you break Exit Gates' lights with your wills to survive.
Increases your chances of being the Obsession.
The Killer can only be obsessed with one Survivor at a time.
Let me hear your thoughts :)
I think the 2nd idea is way better since the 1st idea is just a bit unfair. A survivor that gets killed should be punishing for the other survivors, not rewarding. Also, I think its better if it's opening gates 15%, 20%, 25% faster and 3%, 4%, 5% faster movement speed depending on the tier. Just ditch the obsession thing since it's just unnecessary, but disabling the lights on the gate sounds great. I just think your suggestion is a bit too weak for a perk that'll work once in a blue moon so the speed boost needs to be a lot bigger. Overall, 5% or 10% faster gate speed isn't going to do much, especially when the speed difference relies on rng.
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@MightyBardin said:
Well again it’s possible to make two separate chats. You can still inform your teammates about what stuff you want to bring, WITHOUT telling the killer what you’re doing. However as the killer you don’t get to chat to anyone until the very end, where 99% of the time people just leave immediately without responding. Comical or not it would be nice to have someone to talk to while you stand there and watch the survivors ready up because by that point, you’ve had more than enough time to ready up yourself.
Oh okay that flew right over my head. This'll only work if they make it so that the killer's username doesn't show when chatting with the survivors since there's going to be a lot more dodges than usual. Other than that, I really like this idea so +1.
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@MightyBardin said:
Well most games separate the chats with T and Y to pull up each respective chat. Programming that might take awhile but in the end it’d probably be worth it I think.
Not a fan of this idea since I would run Plunderers and Ace in the Hole from time to time, and would let the others know to let me open the chests. Sometimes, a survivor would also let the others know that they're running a key since it's really hard to see it. Solo Que survivors have a small edge over killers at the start of the game since they can let each other know what perks they're running and what their playstyle is going to be, which encourages teamwork, but hardly anyone utilizes it since this game isn't competitive. Y'all already know how incompetent randoms can be so this small advantage is needed. Also, I think the killer being able to talk to their victims while waiting is just a bit comical.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662202#Comment_662202
I didnt say that, lol. It applies to the individual who DCes. If I have a 30 minute timeout on me, I have to wait 30 minutes before I join a match. If I get into a SWF group with that timer...they cant hit the find match button until the timer goes away, even if no one else has a timer.
Okay I understand it much better now but my god that timeout is atrociously long. I hope they make it at least 5 minutes long if they think 3 minutes isn't enough.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/661855#Comment_661855
They said that SWF groups will have to wait if any of their members have a timeout active. You cant DC abunch as a solo player, and then jump in SWF and expect a game right away. Your friends will have to wait the full amount of time of your timeout, or play without you. Also, im pretty sure the timeout will be more than 3 minutes, lol. Im guessing its likely to start at 15 minutes and go up at 15 minute intervals. This way, you can either DC 2 minutes into your 10 minute game, and have to wait 15 more minutes before joining another or...keep playing the 10 minute game that you had a bad start in. Often times, the reason for a DC at a first down is due to how easy is it for a redo or "mulligan"
Wait, I'm a bit confused. So the dc penalty only applies to swf? This honestly doesn't sound good enough even if it applied to solo que. I still think my suggestion is better but we'll just have to wait and see.
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@Crazewtboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/662182#Comment_662182
Good point. I think at the very least though, you shouldn't be able to join another match in that category until the one you were in finishes. A bit more punishing. There really is no reason to disconnect unless someone is holding the game hostage or you have real life matters to attend to.
I think your suggestion is better than mine on that part so +1.
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@Crazewtboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/661855#Comment_661855
Personally, I believe that if you disconnect on one side, it should block them all. Just so there is no way around the wait.
I thought of that too but I think it's a bit too punishing honestly. Plus, survivors sometimes dc because of trolling and farming, which are good reasons to quit a match so it shouldn't be that harsh. If a survivor disconnects and is unable to play it for 3 minutes, then they can switch to killer to ease their frustration a bit. I think having to wait 3 minutes for everything will make it worse and have a lot of players just stop playing the game for the day, even some players quitting because of this. I think it's better if they made the penalty worse each time the player disconnects instead. (So 1 dc is 3 minutes, 2 dc is 5 minutes, 3 dc is 7 minutes, and so on).
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@GrootDude said:
Gen tap against prayer beads, focus on your surroundings, you might see her in the distance.
That's like the equivalent of dribbling against old DS since it wastes so much time. It just isn't a good counter due to the fact that it punishes you for doing so. Plus, a Prayer Beads Spirit can phase walk behind cover so survivors can't always tell where she's going, even when you're looking at your surroundings.
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@Jiorno said:
Well,bhvr, shirtless demogorgon or revolt
They should do this for an April Fool's event but I guess the devs don't celebrate it since we don't have any events on that day.
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@Fab said:
Good news, DC lockout timers will most likely be implemented this chapter, or the mid-chapter patch.
I'm not sure what the change is but I hope they make it so that anyone who disconnects has to wait 3 minutes before they're able to find a lobby again. If you're a swf that disconnects, then the 3 minute penalty only applies to the swf matchmaking and the penalty to solo que disconnects only applies to solo que matchmaking. This'll make it so that survivors don't quit the game as much after dcing since some of them aren't willing to wait the 3 minutes to find a game. The 3 minute penalty will work on killers that dc as well but they have the option to play survivor while the time penalty is active, same for survivors with killers.
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@justarandy said:
I remember the old days when we'll make it was not only affecting the speed of healing others but also the speed of healing yourself. Was it thaaat broken back then? Cuz I remember the old days it wasn't really a meta perk and it wasnt that ridiculous.
I feel like we should bring back self healing speed bonus aswell. It was a fun perk to use.
Maybe we can add one requirement to that: u only get the speedbonus on selfcare the AFTER you healed someone up (kinda token based).
Even though I know there will be an outrage of hardcore killer mains coming, but I post this anyway. That's my opinion. I played the game since release and I have a good feeling of what is balanced and what us broken. And this buff would definelty not make it broken. In fact, it would finally mix up the meta a little bit and we would finally see that perk more used. People would probably use more selfcare aswell, so we would have less resilience+adrenaline genrush survivors pumping gens injured. Win win imo.
I think just increasing the duration of We'll Make It from 90 seconds to 150 seconds at tier 3 would be way better since it's more balanced. The problem most people have with this perk is that it usually heals just once when it activates. This perk can only activate a maximum of 6 times in a game (activating about 1-2 times on average) and you don't get many situations where you're gonna be healing multiple survivors within 90 seconds. Increasing the duration would allow you to heal more survivors on average, which is just what this perk really needs but at the moment, getting this perk to work once most of the time is just not worth it.
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Like what some people have already suggested, I think it's best to have hex totems light up only when it's active. I mean Noed technically has this effect right now, which is what makes it so good. Now as for Devour Hope lighting up at 3 tokens, it should be 2 tokens instead because that's when it activates for the speed boost, and it'll also give the survivors some time to find the totem before they unhook carelessly and start going down in 1 hit. Huntress Lullaby shouldn't let the survivors know the killer's running it until the first token and have it lit after that. The Third Seal totem lights up after a survivor gets hit. These changes would indirectly decrease the amount of times Noed will work because it gives survivors a greater incentive to cleanse totems and it'll also help a bit against gen rush since they'll cleanse totems more. Overall, these hex perks are just gimmicks at the moment because they get found too early since the totem placements are terrible so making them last longer in any way would buff them drastically instead of changing their effects. Also, killers will use these perks more often instead of the old Ruin so it's a win for everyone since it adds more variety.
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@Milordo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/659603#Comment_659603
If it's for the offering then we need to rework them and we're done.
The problem with saboteur is the hook's regeneration, because you waste all the time to do nothing. So the real answer to all of this is sabotage only some hooks permanently and as you said rework the offering.
Reducing hook spawns still isn't gonna be that useful for sabotaging since it takes a long time to wiggle so the killer can still go from one hook to another. Also, hook locations are based on rng because you'll get some maps where all the hooks are right next to each other and others where the hooks are far apart. Hooks spawning far apart from each other is a bit similar to what you've suggested and it still doesn't do much.
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@Acromio said:
*Laughs in styptic agent and red syringe*
You don't have to mention instaheals in a thread about nerfing Prayer Beads since there are already a bunch of threads suggesting a nerf on them and it's just completely unrelated to the topic.
@anarchy753 said:
Yes, even worse than Iridescent Heads. At least a survivor against Huntress has a chance to dodge 3 hatchets.
Prayer Beads lacks any realistic form of counterplay besides crossing your fingers and hoping.
A survivor can be grabbed and hook instantly in a match without any chance to see it's the Spirit. Any other quick down is AT LEAST telegraphed by chainsaw noises or Nurse's blink sounds, but Prayer Beads has nothing.
I know it's been discussed a lot, but it's not something that should remain untouched until Spirit gets an overall look at. (After Nurse, Leatherface, Pig, and the 6 other killers that have been mentioned to be in line.) It's a single outlying issue that should be resolved.
From a survivor standpoint, it's blatantly anti-fun. You can't do you objective without the constant risk that if you don't have eyes (or SWF) on Spirit, she could skip your entire ability to run in a chase. That's not even considering the disgusting 5 totem protector build that usually comes hand in hand with it, because, again, there's no real counterplay. Sure if you're a 4 man SWF you can coordinate doing 2 totems at once, but solo survivors have no play except "gee I hope I get the hatch this match."
From a killer standpoint, I see why people enjoy it, but literally just being gamebreakingly overpowered isn't fun, nor competitive.
Please, rework this add on to something FAIR for both sides.
- All survivors can hear your phase noises outside your terror radius. A decent alternative which at least gives the ability to play around the phasing, while making it constantly uncertain like Wraith's global bell add on. The major downside of this would be SWF calling out "phasing" every time someone else is in a chase.
- All survivors hear your phase noises, full stop. Would remove the "mind games" from chases but similar to the point above, would constantly force players to second guess if they can continue gens or totems. Similar downsides exist for many other killer add ons.
- The original version, where phase sounds were in a dramatically lowered radius. Allows her the stealthy approach she gets already without the absolute cheese of easy grabs.
- Anything unrelated to phase sounds. Plenty of completely random add ons are popping up on other killers, maybe Spirit could get one to replace the beads effect entirely.
Spirit does NOT need a power rework, and basically every other add on she has is reasonable. All she needs is a prayer beads change to settle people down about her.
Now back to the topic, I do agree that Prayer Beads needs a nerf but I disagree that its stronger than 3 instadown hatchets due to the fact that it can hit survivors at any range but it does require more skill. At least the Spirit has to be within a certain distance to reach a survivor, which means they can react, and Spine Chill completely negates Prayer Beads Spirit while Huntress's instadown hatchets has no counter.
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@Milordo said:
Jeez guys it's not that difficult.
To buff saboteur and toolbox sabotage, just make a limit number of hooks, be sabotage FOREVER, because the regeneration thing is a total mess and doesn't make sense (yes, i know why it was introduced at that time, i was there) and done! You have a come-back of a forgotten mechanic being useful and not extremely overpowered in survivor hands.
Reducing hook spawns can be a problem since there's the offering that increases the hooks distance from each other which can also stack. It'll also mean more survivors will bodyblock since it'll be a lot easier to wiggle off. I can see this being abused by swf on voice chat, telling each other to bodyblock for the save. I'm gonna have to say a no on this one.
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@8obot1c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/658968#Comment_658968
Why would it Ben increased if it was just your hands? If anything it would increase the speed if you were using a toolbox
I already suggested in making the toolboxes sabotage speed faster than just using Saboteur to make it more logical and suggested removing the 50% slower speed to make it usable as a standalone perk. What's the point of being able to sabotage hooks at 50% the normal speed if that's literally gonna get survivors killed by wasting time. At least Self Care is still viable as a standalone perk, is situational, and has a much rewarding effect for something at 50% the normal speed. Using Saboteur is just punishing the survivor and his teammates for ever using it by itself. If sabotaging doesn't prevent a survivor from getting hooked, which requires a bit of rng and timing, then you'll waste like 60 seconds or more searching for hooks and sabotaging them. Increasing sabotage speed will make it so that it's less punishing for survivors that use this mechanic to make it more viable. By the way, this is all to get just 1 save really, and if other survivors go down where there isn't a hook, then the killer will just slug them. It's better to just bring a flashlight and try to get a save with it instead of destroying hooks, since it saves way more time and doesn't involve rng because it's skill based.
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@will_i_am_14_85 said:
but wouldn't this lead to a potential increase in slugging? if loads of hooks are gone, then why shouldn't the killer just slug the whole game until they respawn? And we all know everyone loves being slugged.
It would but I don't see why that's a problem. Killers have to adapt to certain playstyles of the survivors to get kills. That's just how it is. Decisive Strike is designed so that the only counter to it is for the killer to slug if he doesn't want to get stunned for 5 seconds but it doesn't seem like most killers have a problem with that so why this? If 3 survivors decided to gen rush while 1 was being chased, then the killer might have to give up mid-chase to pressure the gens or slug them to put pressure on the survivors. Overall, it's a good strategy for certain situations so it isn't a bad thing. Buffing sabotage will basically mean you're less likely to get gen rushed since survivors can now destroy hooks without punishing them too much, which means more sabotage builds being used and less survivors on gens. Once again for the third time, sabotaging can already be done effectively right now but it isn't worth doing because it takes too long to destroy multiple hooks and you'll most likely just waste yours and the other survivors time if you don't prevent 1 of them from getting hooked. Right now, the only way to sabotage and get saves effectively is by waiting until end game and destroying all the hooks near the gates. This only works if 3 or 4 survivors are still alive though so it won't work often.
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@Dreamnomad said:
These are actually pretty reasonable suggestions. The speed modifiers might be a little off. But having hook aura reading with the perk Saboteur is a really good and fair idea. The one other thing that I think Saboteur should do is make is so when a hook that was broken by a player with Saboteur re-spawns, it should have 50% progression toward being broken again.
I'd like to know why you think the speed modifier is a bit off and what can be a better solution. As for hooks being 50% sabotaged when respawning, that'll definitely be very helpful but I'm not sure if it'll be balanced or not.
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@8obot1c said:
saboteur you can see hooks within 20/26/32 meters and each hook you sabotage the killer can’t see the aura of the last 2/4/6 hooks you sabotaged when you are getting carried. If you use Saboteur the hook is gone for 20/40/60 seconds longer
I think this buff will make the perk okay but I don't think it's good enough since it doesn't increase sabo speed, which means destroying multiple hooks will take too long for something that's most likely not going to work as intended.
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@BunnyTheHutt said:
This is a really bad idea on many forms.
First off, unless it's the game or lery's, finding hooks is not hard at all, so showing aura's for hooks is pretty pointless.
Second off, why should Saboteur be faster with no tools? you only have your hands so unless your hands are metal, it should be slower.
Third off, no, just no. There is a toolbox + addons that do this already, so making it even faster would be insanely OP.
Fourth off, same as #3, would be really broken and not really fair.
Fifth off, this would be way too high a number increase, since you could pair it with increase hook spawn radius, and have 4 people running it, and would stop all forms of hooks unless it's in the basement.
Overall, these changes are really bad because it would make Saboteur and toolboxes really OP and would make all survivors take it and 99% hooks, then always pop it in front of the killer, so the killer would literally have 0 hooks. It would be old sabotages all over again. And saying "That would mean those survivors that are saboing aren't working on a gen, which technically buys time for the killer" is a stupid argument because now Killers would be pretty much forced too slug unless they are near the basement. Or it could promote camping because all the other hooks are broken, so if he does hook someone he wants too be close because it's the only way too hook people.
First off, hooks are difficult to spot when they're in the corners of the map, behind a wall, or a building, which means you spend a bit of time trying to look for them. Also, it's easy to forget where those hooks were once you've spotted them and 99'd them since you'll eventually get preoccupied with the killer or the gens.
Second, I've already suggested in making toolbox's sabotage speed faster as base kit which means it'll be faster than just running saboteur.
Third, I still don't see how using sabo speed addons would make it op because you'd have to 99% it and also be near the killer when they're picking up the survivor, which means they're not on a gen. This is similar to someone trying to get a flashlight save. They also need to destroy multiple hooks in succession for it to work so it most likely won't even get the save. It's difficult to do this because you have to predict which hook the killer is going to take the survivor so it's kind of like cat and mouse.
Fourth, it basically solves your second problem.
Fifth, I already mentioned this above, if all 4 survivors are running a sabo build, then yeah, expect it to be more powerful than having 1 person running it. I already made the example of how all 4 survivors running a flashlight or instaheal can be powerful too but how many people are using them all at the same time? I don't see why this is such a big issue. Also, if 4 survivors are focused on destroying hooks, then the killers will have to adapt by slugging and possibly camping them to play around it, which still puts a lot of pressure on them. The only way the Killer gets kills is if he adapts to the environment and the survivors playstyles so slugging and camping is fine. Also like I said earlier, this can already be done right now by 4 survivors running a sabo build but hardly anyone is using it because it's a gimmick build. The only buffs I've suggested are to increase sabo speed and see hook auras to decrease the amount of time it takes for it to work, and which ones to destroy because it just takes too long to sabo and has a higher chance of punishing you instead of rewarding you.
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@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/658866#Comment_658866
No. I'm just saying that survivors shouldn't complain if they don't get as many emblem points for a chase than hiding. They also shouldn't complain that there aren't any perks that charge during a chase.
The original point is that, no, chases aren't incentivised, since they claimed they were.
Nobodies complaining about emblem points in a chase nor are they complaining about a perk that charges during chases don't exist.
It doesn't really matter if it rewards you for good chase play. If it's a good buff to the perk, which others and I think it is, then it's fine. Keep in mind, exhaustion perks technically reward you for being in a situation where you would've gotten hit, which is why we don't see a problem with this buff.
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@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/658722#Comment_658722
Because there are other options already for good chase play. You get BPs and all exhaustion perks already help in a chase.
As a survivor, you're not meant to get into chases. The whole point is to escape, and killers will catch you during a chase (unless they're new or potatoes...). You shouldn't get a reward for getting caught out by a killer.
Diversion does need a buff though, but I wouldn't be the one to come up with it.
@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/658747#Comment_658747
It's BS? In what way? If you want to discuss something, expect people to disagree and provide answers as to why they disagree.
I'm also taking the lore into account when I say survivors aren't supposed to be in a chase. Your chances of escaping increases by stealthing around killers instead of running around them in a chase. But hey, I'm just a Rank 4 killer, what do I know?
Wait, what? Do you really expect the survivors to play hide and seek for the entire game? One of them are going to get caught eventually so punishing them for it is just stupid and it won't get any gens done fast enough. Plus, imagine if all 4 survivors played immersive throughout an entire game. That sh*t would take forever. I don't see how survivors are getting rewarded for surviving the killer because they're just trying to live and nothing else. Just because it says it in the lore doesn't mean it applies to the gameplay of DBD. You should already know this as a rank 4 killer, which is why people are calling you out on your bs.
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@Raven014 said:
For the same reason that Stake Out doesn't charge when in a chase. It rewards not being sloppy around the killer. It rewards good stealth play.
It's very strong against new killers and ones that don't expect it.
Except that's the reason why Diversion is weak. Its supposed to distract the killer but it can also confuse them during a chase. Now the problem is that it only works once or twice because being in the terror radius for 45 seconds is just too long for an effect that might not work on a good killer since they can tell its a fluke pretty quickly. Now Stake Out's way of activation is fine since it's for gens and not meant for chases or distracting the killer therefore they're not a good comparison.