Defnotmeghead
Defnotmeghead
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@Senaxu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926876#Comment_3926876
You've clearly invested time into this — though what stands out more is the conclusion you keep circling back to. You keep naming every known challenge in anti-cheat design… only to conclude that meaningful enforcement is essentially futile unless we accept shadow bans and hidden stats as our gospel.
Yet oddly enough, in games like Valorant, actual cheaters do get caught…. not by “banning in waves,” but by enforcing verified movement logic, server-side physics, and desync validation. The same principles DBD structurally avoids.
You say “we can't afford what you're asking.” But the cost of not doing it is a live PvP game where teleporting survivors are more common than in-game transparency. No security model survives on secrecy alone — and if it does, it's not secure. It's just unaccountable.
And if video proof “isn’t needed,” why does BHVR explicitly ask for it in nearly every ticket? Why are reports without it routinely ignored unless you’re already in their internal trust pool (which, conveniently, no one can verify)?
This isn’t about demanding perfection. It’s about acknowledging that DBD isn’t even trying to meet the PvP standard. And when players notice that, they don’t just stop trusting the system… they will stop logging in at some point.
They get banned in DBD too, and Valorant bans in waves too. Valorant doesnt use the "verified movement logic" you think they use. And as for desync validation, that mainly depends on available servers. And yeah, Valorant has MORE servers (other than that, RIOT is also significantly richer than BHVR). But, you're forgetting 1 key factor that has the biggest difference here why it SEEMS like Valorant is more capable, when in reality, their anti-cheat isnt objectively better:
Riot has its own client.
DBD catches as many, if not more cheaters than Valorant(player ratio). The way RIOT somewhat influences spoofing, is due to having their own client. It means that it requires cheaters to set up a new Virtual Machine first every time they get banned, because if they forget then they can get a hardware ban since the ban would be done via the client, and no amount of spoofing gets you around your hardware having been banned.
If Valorant was usable through Epic Games and/or Steam, cheaters would flood Valorant as much, if not more.
Again, what you are asking is impossible. The only way to improve anti-cheat is to reduce your literal privacy.
And no, they dont need video proof. But BHVR will ask for everything that could speed up the process. They could, without videoproof, check the claim and find more than enough evidence. But you know whats 100x easier and faster? Clicking a link and pressing play to see someone teleporting across the map. Its not a requirement.
And there is no PVP standard, you are claiming Valo and League are the standard, but that isnt the standard. Fortnite doesnt have that system, Dota 2doesnt, CS2 doesnt, OW2 doesnt. What RIOT does, is breaching privacy in exchange of giving cheaters a slightly more roundabout way to get back at it. Which, is more effective. But once again, breaching privacy.
You automatically start up the Riot client and are doing your taxes? Congrats, now Riot also has access to your tax info. You have the client running in the background while doing some private research incognito? Congrats, Riot can now see which arrangement of carnality you enjoy most and maybe even offer merchandise that looks eerily similar. That's what kernel level anti-cheat really means. That is the REAL cost of what happens in Valorant and League.
There is no PVP anti-cheat standard, and DBD is legitimately one of the groups with an actually active anti-cheat system that recieves constant updates. Like it or not, DBD is very close to being the anti-cheat standard. Its variables outside of BHVR's control that make it seem like they dont.
Just as a comparison, you have an anti-burglary system:
Valorant and League basically have camera's installed in your house EVERYWHERE and on at all times, even when you're home. Someone still manages to get into your house and steals your TV, and not all of them will be caught.
DBD has alarms, infrared lasers that only activate when you're gone from home, replaces your lock once every 3 months while giving you a key to the door that will turn off all alarms because you shouldnt be losing any privacy. But for some reason, the people who break into your house earn enough money to pay people to keep making fake keys and after some succesful keys they manage to make a skeleton key that fits on all homes. DBD makes sure some locks are changed and that people are caught before you miss anything, but they have to change the locks on all homes soon enough.
CS2 just has a sticker of "this home is protected by an alarm", while the alarm has ran out of batteries 3 years ago and the door is unlocked. It basically keeps the basic cheaters out.
The fact that you are willing to sell your private info to a company in exchange for 55 minutes more time that cheaters need to set up a new account to cheat again (which, if it takes 1 hour to ban the average cheater, and it takes about 1 hour for the cheater to be back in running, you're going to have cheaters who will give up for the time being, where again, in DBD, probably takes the same hour, but then they just trigger a spoofer and buy a hacked account and are up and running again in 15 minutes). Valorant isnt better, its less convenient.
Remove hardware spoofers from existance, and the DBD cheater issue goes back to how it was in 2020, practically non-existant.
Also, I would love to stress, Valorant isnt as server sided as you believe. 95% of anti-cheat even in Valorant happens on the side of the client. The servers, even those used for DBD, have validation on certain things. But at a certain point, you cannot ask the server to do things for you without impacting enjoyability. Things that currently flow relatively nicely would no longer flow as nicely.
You genuinely dont know what you are talking about. You can have demands, like everyone else has, and I am not defending BHVR here as I do think there are things they can improve on. But you're asking privacy breaching levels of client sided anti-cheat, while using google server levels of server sided anti-cheat, and calling that "the standard".
Thats like claiming the bodyguards any US president has(who also has very little privacy btw), is the standard of protection that all citizens should have.
You want George Orwell's 1984 levels of anti-cheat. And no, I rather face 2 cheaters on average per match than give any company access to all my private info just so I can maybe face 1 cheater every 1000 games.
The TRUE modern anti-cheat standard, would be finding a way to still implement a hardware ban on people who use spoofers. And there is a way to it: Whitelisting.
You can use an extremely trigger happy anti-cheat that will automatically kick anyone from a match the second they detect something weird and add a flag. And if you dont get flagged for a long enough time (lets say, 1000 escapes/4000 kills), or if you have been personally investigated to not have any cheats, you get added to a whitelist and only face other players who have made it to the whitelist.
You would still have cheaters, but you wont face most of them. Only downside is that new players will be forced to play against quite a few cheaters, so to mitigate that, you can add a grey list, where people on the grey list will only face other people on the grey list, and the only way you can get on the grey list is through cheating. And with a trigger happy anti-cheat, you can instead of auto ban people send them to the grey list. Even in case of a false trigger, they would still be able to play the game while their situation gets sorted out. -
@LockerLurk said:
The ratios here are telling.
It's unacceptable in 2025 to have aspects of a game where another player, either side, is forced to watch you humiliate them and can do little about it. We added an Abandon feature for Survivors to remove the pain of a 4 man bleed out while the Killer shuffles over each one. Being told to "just push them out" or ignore it while Survivors sit in the gates wasting time teabagging or noise spamming in the hopes you'll come give them an ego boost by watching them leave needs to have the same consideration. NOBODY likes being made to helplessly watch as people act like sore winners.A little bag or two after a stun is one thing. A silly bag or occasional single twirl as you down someone is one thing. Being made to watch as someone humptechs you on the ground or sits just at the edge of the gate as a Killer that 100% can't do anything about it is another. It's griefing and it's foul.
I am still in favor of blocking the exit gates for 10 seconds and giving the survivor exposed status if they press crouch more than three times and havent left within 3 seconds of doing so.
-
@JagerBombasticc said:
Howdy, first post here ever... Here it goes.
I like the idea you have started with this, but I would still want to look at it a bit further... Being able to crawl faster isn't a good thing that allows players to scoot scoot to a pallet or something even if the killer is NOT slugging.
As for them having to get to a gen, I like the idea but what if instead we made it based off the killers BASE terror radius? (Perks don't affect this).
Lemme explain, if I get downed and my teammates are a bunch of apes who all try to jump the killer, I should not be able to pick myself up while the killer is trying to find an opening to pick me up.
But at the same time, I don't want to be laying on the ground while the killer goes on a field trip across the map to down my rando teammates who are doing gens or possibly healing or something else (bear traps, singularity cams, unknown husks, or totems, etc etc).
So make it normal crawling. Normal crawling speed, normal recovery (unless using perks). But if the killer walks far enough away where you are outside BASE terror radius of that killer, you can pick yourself up.
"But that means slower killers suffer",... I can hear y'all screaming at me already... No it doesn't. It allows you to have some room to move around flush out would be saviors and chase them far enough to make room/space to come back and go for a pick up.
But the survivor can crawl out of the killers terror radius... Yes, yes they can. But THAT is up to the killer to keep an eye on the downed player so that they make that choice. Keep the survivor within that radius and you can do what you need to, but get careless and you get punished for it.
If the survivor is crawling, they are opening themselves up to being picked up in a spot that may not be the best for their team to come in for the save or it may allow the killer to sink their head into a wall so they cannot get blinded. That falls on the survivors and the risk of trying to crawl to safety...
But if a killer is off in another realm, why the hell are you stuck on the floor for three minutes with no way to counter... If that's the case every game is slug to win.
This will also be incentive for survivors not to come charging a killer on a down to beat down and can instead lead to trying to lead them away, or more cat and mouse tactics making the struggle more fair on both sides.
But wait! How is this fair based on the killers BASE terror radius? Well consider it a ball and chain type scenario...
For killers with smaller base terror radius (stealth killers) you're ability to sneak around makes you dangerous if you plan on chasing after another survivor to slug, or make it a fake out to force people coming in for a save to hesitate.
Being able to pop up unannounced means that even though you have the smallest radius, you can hover just out of sight using the survivor as bait, and as soon as they stand up, you rush them again and down them. I feel by allowing them to get up even when you are close forces you to either pick up, or move on, period. If survivors are running in to distract you so their buddy can get up, you in theory should be getting hits and wasting survivors time from doing gens.
Obviously as we then move up to the killers with larger and larger base terror radius, the same thing applies. The fastest killers (Blight, Kaneki, Whesker, Billy, Legion) would have the largest terror radius, but this also makes things more cat and mouse. Crawling survivors are going to move more while others have to space out and try to get around the killer, it will allow the killer to chase other survivors who will obviously want to pull the killer AWAY from the downed survivor, but the killer won't have to easily give up a down they get. Could a fast mover down all 4 survivors like this?
The simple answer is, yes. But if the killer is able to down all 4 people while you have a chance to try and crawl outside the radius and pick yourself up, id say the killer won that. I just don't want to be left on the ground with no way to help of play and just wait for death.
But if the killer is downing you, and then running off, across the map you have a chance for someone to come and help you while you are recovering, or the killer can pick you up to bring to hook. And then have to try and find other survivors.
This post is extremely long and I'm sure someone will come along and poke a hole in my idea, and that's fine. Ultimately though, It won't make it easy for the survivors to pick themselves up, there would be risks and rewards for it, but it also allows the killer to play but not simply down someone and forget they exist.
I ultimately love a good skirmish in a game, but if the killer outplays the survivors and downs all four 'cause you were being silly, that's on the survivors, and if the survivors are charging and harassing the killer harder than the TSA seeing someone try to take more than 3 fl oz. of liquid on a plane, the killer needs to figure that out. Ultimately survivors should never be picking THEMSELVES up off the ground without the help of perks or others... So that's on you killer.
But long post over...
Big problem with base terror radius: Wesker has 40 meters, Nurse has 32 meters, Myers in T2 has 16 meters. So a Myers would be forced to pick up where a Nurse can slug. And distance based on killer is really skewed, because a Nurse or Kaneki will be right back at you within 0.1 seconds, despite those killers rarely needing to slug anyway, while a Myers would need an additional 9 seconds just to close the gap, despite being a killer who needs to rely on slugging sometimes. And yeah, stealth killers do have the benefit to sneak up, but they dont have the mobility to react. A nurse could go from side A to side B, down a survivor and be back quick enough to down you again and still hook you. A t1 myers would be lucky to down someone fast enough before you can pick up, since his TR is 0.
I would have actually wanted to do cleansed totems at first, because it gives reasons for survivors to spend time on totems and not on gens, but big problem is that totems are extremely RNG reliant, where generator spread on average is very similar between games.
As for the crawl speed and pallets, thats genuinely not too big of a deal. Either they were always going to be inside the pallet range anyway, or you can be at the edge of the pallet and use an m1 to swing out far away enough.
Also, as for reference, 100% increased crawlspeed makes you only slightly faster than crouching. Try crouching from any location to under a pallet while standing still for 0.5 seconds because being downed comes with an animation you cant crawl in. That's how impactful the speed increase would be. It's really not that big of a deal. 100% sounds like a LOT, but slugged survivors move at 0.7 meters per second. As a comparison, Myers actively stalking a survivor in T1 moves at 0.84 meters per second. A stalking T1 Myers moves faster than a slugged survivor. Doubling that speed really doesnt change much. -
@Senaxu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926626#Comment_3926626
Appreciate the essay – though at some point, quantity stopped compensating for coherence.
You're right that spoofers are a problem. You're also right that kernel-level anti-cheat isn't a silver bullet. But none of that changes the lived experience: cheaters flying across the map while BHVR’s detection system patiently waits for a formal invitation to intervene.
What you’ve written is an impressive catalogue of symptoms, but it skips the diagnosis: trusting the client in a PvP game with money on the line is like locking your front door... and handing the burglar the spare key….just in case.
I made it that much, because thats how complex the situation is. You can flyhack in overwatch and not get banned, you can flyhack in valorant and not get banned.
No anti-cheat can be up to that level of detection without creating an unplayable game. Every. Single. Frame. would need to be traced. Every. Single. Variable. must be taken into consideration (aka, hundreds, if not thousands of frames prior need to be saved just in case the "flying" happened due to a vector launch elsewhere).
You dont know what you're demanding, not even Google servers can handle what you demand. Hence the essay I wrote. -
@Senaxu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925788#Comment_3925788
You make several confident claims…but without verifiable sources, they remain just that: claims.
Dead by Daylight is a PvP game with matchmaking, hidden MMR, and asymmetric roles.
Saying it's not competitive ignores the core structure of its design.As for server-side validation: there’s no confirmed evidence that DBD meaningfully validates movement, positioning, or state changes server-side. If such validation existed, the rampant exploit streams and repeat offenders still playing live on Twitch would suggest a catastrophic failure of that system.
I've personally submitted over 20 cheater reports to BHVR support → always with precise details, Steam IDs, and full context.
In every case, unless I attached direct video proof, I was explicitly asked to upload one before any action could be taken.If true server-side validation existed, this level of manual verification wouldn’t be necessary. The current process isn't reflective of a system that independently detects and confirms cheating — it's reflective of one that doesn’t.
Unless BHVR or EAC provide technical documentation proving otherwise, we should treat “server validation” as a marketing myth, not a mechanic.
"Saying it's not competitive ignores the core structure of its design."
Where did I say it isnt competitive?"there’s no confirmed evidence that DBD meaningfully validates movement, positioning, or state changes server-side."
But there is validation, you claimed there was none: Pallet validation, DS validation, it validates loadouts nowadays too(which is why you no longer see flashlights with wirespool like you used to, nor have medkits with 20 Abdominal Dressings to do a self-heal in 3 seconds.
And you're right, we dont know if there are any other specific validations surrounding movement, positioning or state changes on the server side. But you know what's also funny? Neither do you know if that happens in a lot of cases. Kicked for flying can have a multitude of reasoning. Like a clientsided check for your movement vector that gets updated and sometimes considered impossible, and your client sending a message to a server to get you kicked in case you're on a server. You assume its done server sided because the server does the kicking. The same happens with pallet stuns, they are just client sided information that is send to the server, and the only validation the server does is check which event happened first. It's still server sided validation, but its the client that checks for it. The only game I am aware that actually does movement and positioning on the serverside is Overwatch 2, as they render the full game and basically do a comparison between what should happen and what actually happens. But if they fully render the game on the server and control, how do you still have cheaters in overwatch 2? Simple, you cannot ban people for suddenly having high ping, that alone can allow you to teleport on the server's end, it just gives you a flag for investigation if it happens too often, and even then, some of those flags are ignored due to high ping. Meaning if you have a program that purposely slows down information send to the server would allow you to cheat and not get any flags.
You're really trying to paint any anti-cheat as superior, when really, its not. 10% of the top 500 players in the Overwatch 2 leaderboard are confirmed cheaters. Meaning they not only managed to cheat and not get banned, they managed to do so for HUNDREDS of games in a row. Despite a full server side validation system rendering the entire game.
"I've personally submitted over 20 cheater reports to BHVR support → always with precise details, Steam IDs, and full context. In every case, unless I attached direct video proof, I was explicitly asked to upload one before any action could be taken."
Funny, because I have submitted at least over 200 by now, and while in a lot of cases I could provide video proof since I have recording software that needs 5 seconds to start up before it can record, I couldnt always record it.
They stopped asking for video proof explicitly in 2022 when I couldnt record, there have been some cases they did ask, where I presume they looked into the matter but couldnt find any substantial evidence with what they had in place, but even then, last time that question happened was early 2024. The main question they have for me is if I reported them in-game, because sometimes, its a saturday with no plans and I have played for 6-7 hours with on average 4 games per hour.
"If true server-side validation existed, this level of manual verification wouldn’t be necessary. The current process isn't reflective of a system that independently detects and confirms cheating — it's reflective of one that doesn’t."
No, it does not. Again, 50 people in the top 500 of Overwatch 2 are confirmed cheaters by the community, they have still been able to evade bans because despite reports, its not enough. Overwatch 2 gets video evidence from people from Twitter and viral Youtube video's, and once a video has gained enough traction, then someone in the top 500 might get banned for it.
Again, you're painting Anti-Cheat measures as if they are miracle work, when in reality, there are thousands, if not millions of reports coming in. Often a lot aimed at a handful of players alone. Then you have people looking into those players and they often need to be manually banned, because autobans only work if you can isolate an issue to be a cheating-only possibility(like, wirespool on a flashlight).
And while I cannot go into detail due to an NDA, financial companies have extremely strict detection systems incase someone gamed the system, as literal millions can be at risk. You have teams of 20 people per team, working 40 hours a week each, being available 24/7 as a team while in contact with the police, trying to catch 5 people. Despite the strict detections, despite KNOWING what they are doing, they have been able to avoid the police. That can take weeks. You, on a daily basis, will trigger hundreds of fraud flags at your bank, by just existing. Someone is making sure that your fraud flags can be considered normal human behaviour. Its the ones that get a manual flag added by people on the team that get higher priority over everyone else. And that is a financial company having 2500+ employees as a whole.
The biggest benefit? When they finally do catch the person, they are actively removing that person from being able to do anything financial because they go to jail.
Now imagine that that person could pay 200$ a month to get an entirely new physical appearance whenever they get caught, then that person could go on with their financial crimes after weeks have been dedicated trying to catch that person. And they can go on doing exactly what they have been doing for weeks with no reprocussions. THAT is the modern issue with hardware spoofers.
The bigger the team, the faster bans can happen. And with BHVR having about 200 people working there, You can assume that 20 people would pretty much cover the entire security team. For a game as popular as DBD, thats small. Overwatch 2 has Activision Blizzard, which has a team of 200 people doing security (and even then, 10% of the top 500 confirmed cheaters who have been able to avoid a ban).
Anti-cheat is basically a nuclear protocol, especially the auto-ban feature. You HAVE to tread lightly and not have it go off on people by accident. And considering the fact that people can bypass bans due to certain spoofers and be at it again within 15 minutes after a ban, and the average ban can take an hour or so to be implemented, you have the situation you currently have at DBD.
In theory, BHVR could ban 100% of cheaters 100% of the time, but you can equally expect 30% of players getting banned for stunning a killer with a pallet after you have gone down, or getting stunned by a pallet after you've downed a survivor because latency was just slightly too big for the server side validation to check. -
@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925797#Comment_3925797
If you cannot down all survivors within 32 seconds and start hooking your first downed survivor, you kinda deserve survivors picking themselves up at an unfinished gen anyway.
Blood fury by default has duration of 45 seconds, so it seems simply impossible to get maximum out of his power by default with your feature. "will not harm any killer in specific"
You are willing to massively nerf several of killers, just so you don't have to deal with "boring gameplay", so just don't act like it wouldn't be a big deal…It wont, because here's a simple solution:
go to the nearest gen where you slugged that survivor, TADAA, they are gonna be there.
And even then, you still have gained MASSIVE pressure regardless. Everyone is injured, blood is everywhere so survivors can effectively deal with Bloodfury the rest of the game. If they dont wanna try, they can just give up and not move -
@Rickprado said:
Really, after the Give up mechanic i don't see a problem with slugging anymore.
If you are on the ground and can't be picked up is more yours teammates fault than a problem of the game. Nerfing slugging even more will make the game much worse for killers with no reason.
If you hate slug so much, grab Unbrekable or boon exponential.
You cant always abandon tho, if you go down and someone leaves, gone is the abandon button. It only comes when everyone is hooked/downed and the last person gets downed. It helps a TON, but it doesnt solve the balancing issue with slugging. Its more powerful than a hook for mobility killers, its a necessity for low mobility killers.
Perks arent solutions for balancing problems. -
@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925754#Comment_3925754
be a draw anyway
couldn't care less about MMR and that works only if I manage to actually down whole team, which is unlikely at start.
Your idea works even if I let just 1 survivor slugged and try to use my power on other survivors.
You kinda WANT survivors to be able to pick themselves up so they wont abandon
No, I am fine if they leave. Couldn't care less about MMR. Definetly better than not being able to use my power.
And you can return and hook a survivor, you would just have a harder time finding them the longer you leave them be, as it should be.
Why it should be? You can either recover, or crawl. I expect to be able to return under 30 seconds +/- and stil easily find survivor.
With this change I can't even slug survivor to try gain additional hit on someone else and they are gone.You dont wanna slug them if there isnt much progress on it.
Usually it's valid to slug if there is survivor nearby you can chase immediately, because it's definetly woth to get at least injury before you go pick up. Doesn't matter how progressed the gen is.
Or when you have limited power you want to keep using like Plague, Oni, Myers."I expect to be able to return under 30 seconds +/- and stil easily find survivor."
Then you have terrible expectations. You should expect to seek for 1 additional second for every 3 seconds you leave, because the radius they crawl away in gets significantly bigger, my suggested change would increase it for about 1 second for every 2 seconds you leave. If you want to still easily find a slugged survivor, grab Deerstalker.
"Definetly better than not being able to use my power."
Well, counterpoint, you can actively predict where slugged survivors will be going: to the nearest unfinished generator, of which you actively can see its aura. If you cannot down all survivors within 32 seconds and start hooking your first downed survivor, you kinda deserve survivors picking themselves up at an unfinished gen anyway. Because why should survivors 1 and 2 deal with boring gameplay just because you got lucky and found all survivors?
"Usually it's valid to slug if there is survivor nearby you can chase immediately, because it's definetly woth to get at least injury before you go pick up."
And you can still do this, the average injury tends to happen within 25 seconds after downing another survivor, that or a dropped pallet you can kick. Thats still a survivor unable to fully recover. Nothing changes there unless you dedicate more than 32 seconds to that 1 injury, in which case, you made a mistake by dedicating so much time to an injury instead of hooking. A mistake you could have prevented by hooking. -
@Senaxu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925195#Comment_3925195
You make some well-structured points, particularly from a technical standpoint, but it’s crucial to draw a line between theoretical anti-cheat capabilities and the actual, tangible experience players face in a client-trusted environment like DBD.
You're correct that detection suppression exists, even in top-tier systems. But that’s precisely why modern competitive games like Valorant have moved toward kernel-level drivers and server-side validation, because trusting client input without robust, real-time verification invites manipulation. Dead by Daylight, on the other hand, still relies heavily on client-side trust, making it especially vulnerable to memory manipulation, packet spoofing, and desync abuse.
That’s not just a challenge… it’s a structural flaw.The idea that 99% of cheaters are being banned may be statistically comforting, but in practice, the system feels indistinguishable from one that does nothing. Silent background enforcement is only effective if its presence is felt through results. But in DBD’s case, player perception of impunity is stronger than any reassurance the system hopes to deliver… and that’s a sign of disconnect between design and lived experience.
Yes, rebuilding the game would help. But so would rebuilding the anti-cheat philosophy: starting with server-side checks on position, velocity, and desync states, basic validations that Riot, Blizzard, and even smaller studios treat as foundational. It’s not just about catching cheaters… it’s about making cheating meaningfully harder.
Until then, trusting the client in a live PvP environment is less a strategy, and more a gamble.
And right now, the house isn’t winning.I mentioned why I am heavily against kernel level anti-cheat. That should only exist in tournaments, on tournament devices. The moment kernel level is implemented in DBD is the moment I will tell everyone I play DBD with to uninstall. And DBD has serverside validation, its why bans happen regardless of reports.
As a side-note, I fully agree that there are issues, but by far the biggest issue, that even kernel doesnt solve, is the fact that hardware spoofers became commercially viable, where previously it was company levels of expenses. Because banning a (part of a) physical device was the main reason that held most current cheaters avoid actual bans, but now, since they cant ban the motherboard, all that effectively happens is an account ban. Kernel doesnt solve that. There currently is no way to detect a spoofer like that, which is why even RIOT still has cheaters.
Its not an anti-cheat issue, its a ban avoidance issue. And you betcha that they are trying to find ways to still obtain the original identification. Which is why some cheaters arent getting banned. Because they know they are cheating and are trying to find out how what information they can obtain from those people, and with some luck find a way to get around the spoofer and surprise them with the next banwave by banning 100% of cheaters, forcing all of them to buy entirely new hardware because they dont know which part of their hardware got banned.
Once that happens, cheating will be down to a minimum, untill someone creates a different spoofer, which will eventually happen because some cheaters are willing to pay 150$+ a month just to be able to cheat in DBD. -
@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925730#Comment_3925730
So are we going to remove hooks next because it removes player agency? Just make the entire game about hitting survivors until they finish gens and escape?
Hooks are completely fine as they are, it doesnt remove player agency as you can attempt to unhook at the cost of progress, it allows an early way out and is only 140 seconds at most. It has an anti-camp feature and basekit endurance on unhook.
Stop comparing them, its not the same. Hooks remove some player agency and in return gives some protection. Slugging does not. -
@PetTheDoggo said:
At what point this is not going to hurt any killer in specific?
Of course it does, it nerfs slugging → it nerfs killer who needs to slug to get maximum value out of their power.Probably most the Oni, who can start slugging with his power quite early if survivors made a mistake and gave him early hit. This make it simply impossible at that point, because survivors will get picked up for free.
Even with 1/2 gens left, survivors are usually around them.
Also not being able to return and hook survivor, because they left would also be a big deal.
I dont see an issue, right now survivors would abandon in that case, causing the game to be a draw anyway. You kinda WANT survivors to be able to pick themselves up so they wont abandon.
And "usually around them" doesnt mean a thing, you still can afford to hook survivors instead. The only reason you wanna slug in a 1-2 gen scenario with survivors next to those gens is if the gens are almost finished. You dont wanna slug them if there isnt much progress on it.
And you can return and hook a survivor, you would just have a harder time finding them the longer you leave them be, as it should be. -
@PetTheDoggo said:
I would simply make it something similar to anti3gen feature.
Either each survivor has limit how many times they can be slugged and not be picked up by a killer (they get picked up by teammate),
or it's like global limit, which gets reseted when kill picks up.
That's something killer can play around and prevent from happening while still using slugging. It should not be something outside of killer's control imo (other than not doing it at all).I would kinda agree with you, if picking up adds a hookstate to survivors and basically is treated like a hook in every other scenario (including applying all basekit mechanics and perks), but also a genrepair increase for a limited amount of time since that would act as a punishment for not actually hooking.
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@crogers271 said:
Change 1 - I suspect this is the direction we will actually get. People are talking about basekit unbreakable, but I think some form of increasing crawl speed/heal speed (Tenacity) is more likely.
Change 2 - I think 100% is too much. 50%, maybe, but I definitely could see 25%.
Change 3 - This is interesting. My initial reaction was, no, absolutely not, but I'm thinking it through.
This means if the killer slugs someone across the map, they can't pick themselves up. That's reasonable, otherwise survivors would always try and pull the killer away.
This weakens the ability of the killer to slug and protect a gen at the same time. I think that would be a good change.
It also means if the survivor crawls to a gen and the killer isn't pressuring the slug, there's a high chance there's a survivor on that gen who just picks them up. This means the change doesn't create a new type of benefit, which is good.
I kind of like it. I think there's no chance BHVR would actually do something like this, but it's a neat idea.
-
It does remind me of an idea that I haven't seen in a while, that being slugged survivors should be able to do gens, but at a reduced rate.
In terms of what I think we'll get: faster crawl speed, and some level of basekit recovery while crawling.
Also maybe the ability of slugged survivors to 99 their heal progress so they can be one tapped for pick ups.
I think I also was the first one who suggested doing gens while slugged but at a slower rate on Reddit, I think about 1.5 years ago. The problem I have there and why I stopped suggesting it, is the mobility basically makes that entirely useless. The only way that is a viable solution if you make genprogression 2x-3x faster while slugged, but that doesnt feel like a good solution. Balancing wise it could be, but it would feel weird to do gens faster when downed.
I do think being able to pick yourself up an unfinished gens has some issues to it, but those are adjustable and fixable with relatively minor effort. Where right now, I do not see a solution where making some perks basekit will help anything. -
@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925206#Comment_3925206
All things considered, no mither is fine because it has massive downside of being permanently broken.
Btw why is mass slug a problem again? Isn't knockout already reworked, and you now can abandon the game when killer decides not to hook?
Mass slug is a problem because it fully removes player agency. It will remain to be a problem as long as there is no basekit counter to it. And on top of that, extremely boring. 32 seconds of effectively not doing anything to recover is 1 thing, but it being as strong as a hook is a problem. Abandoning match was a patchjob solution, not the actual solution.
-
@squbax said:
You are not very good at avoiding loopholes tho. Maybe its cuz I might be wrong but hear this one. Everytime you can, go down near a gen and comm to a teamate where you are gonna go down so that they use bp to guarantee the flashy save. You give the killer two options:
A: take the pick-up and get flashlight stunned, leading to a longer chase and repeat.
B: leave you on the ground and let you recover.
Both possibilities take away the possibility of the killer getting the hook.
Sometimes people do critizice bhvr but you really need to be very careful to create fool-proof mechanics in this game.
Simple things:
1. The generator has to be unfinished, so the killer can just kick the gen, then chase someone else.
2. It still takes 32 seconds to recover first.
3. survivors need to be able to reach a gen like that, which will get harder and harder the more gens are gone
Simple solution:
Grant basekit lightborn while picking up in a region thats 6 meters range from a generator, where a survivor could pick themselves up 4 meters from a generator. Solved.
Counterpoint:
Survivors can do that now anyway. If they have no mither and go down out in the open, what is the counterplay there then? Both possibilities take away for the possibility of the killer getting the hook just as equally as the generator. And its easier to replicate with No Mither, especially considering the fact that survivors with No Mither can do it 9 times before bleeding out becomes a thing, 13 times with Unbreakable also there and 19 times with Exponential being active too. Where in the basekit time, its 7 times at most.
The thing is, this is the healthiest solution I can consider. Any other mechanic I can think off will not matter against high mobility killers and impact low mobility killers extremely negatively. There are some situations where it would be unfair, but those are niche situations compared to how not-niche slugging is right now. And countermeasures for the niche situation you're giving are much easier to implement than counter measures for other mechanics that could reduce early game slugging. -
@Senaxu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923960#Comment_3923960
While I appreciate your perspective and your background in IT, I believe it's important to differentiate between theoretical anti-cheat efficacy and what players demonstrably experience in practice.
From a systems design perspective - particularly in real-time, client-authoritative environments - trusting the client without robust validation is a known architectural weakness. Once that trust is exploited through memory injection, packet spoofing or desync manipulation, server-side checks become non-negotiable. And yet, in DBD, the server seems to accept manipulated input without hesitation.
The idea that “the system works silently in the background” might sound reassuring - but it doesn’t align with what many players encounter: repeated exposure to blatant and subtle cheats, vague or absent feedback after reporting, and a near-total absence of transparency. If flags are truly being triggered, they don’t seem to result in timely or visible action. That creates an environment where the perception of impunity is stronger than any reassurance the system might hope to deliver.
I understand that no anti-cheat is perfect and that avoiding false positives is important. But when that caution results in a system that feels unresponsive, the effect isn’t "precision" - it’s stagnation. A system that rarely bans the wrong player but consistently fails to act on the right ones is functionally indistinct from a broken one.
In short: what should work - and what does work - are two very different things. And the wider the gap, the more it undermines trust.
The problem is that certain things are impossible to do so there are no checks for it yet. Then they find an exploit being able to inject it because there is no check yet.
And manipulated input isnt exactly what is happening. Its detection suppression. Aka, how to pass an input without actually making it trigger as an input. That happens even in the strongest of anti-cheat. Even RIOT who has implemented Kernel level anti-cheat, still has cheaters that arent getting banned. Despite literally tracing your direct inputs, the software on your PC, and any software having ANY form of interactions with their software. All getting traced actively and aggressively, still cheaters. All due to suppression of detection.
Doesnt mean their anti-cheat doesnt work, their anti-cheat works really well, bans 99% of cheaters who try to attempt to cheat. But from a community standpoint, as you say "it doesn't align with what many players encounter: repeated exposure to blatant and subtle cheats, vague or absent feedback after reporting, and a near-total absence of transparency". The players see what got through the system, not what was being blocked. And they cant show you what has been blocked, because that gives info.
Its a system you have to trust works, and trust improves by reporting people. Still seeing cheaters is a bias that people have to recognise, because there have been months without cheaters. The fact that there have been months without clearly proves its working. The fact that we sometimes have weeks on ends with too many cheaters clearly proves people still pay enough money to those kind of developers that they can work almost 24/7 as a team to try and find new ways.
Its a very hard line to walk on for bhvr developers, while a very easy line to cross for the cheat developers. And as long as people are willing to spend as much as they do on cheats, they dont have a reason to stop.
The quickest solution at this point, is revamping the entire game, effectively creating DBD 2, same roster, same mechanics, same inventory, just an entirely new batch of code etc to deal with, one where you can effectively have devs being able to spectate any game at any time so they can join in real-time and find out what is happening whenever a cheater does show up. Its not an anti-cheat issue here, its people having access to look into the source code because the game has existed for such a long time. -
@Senaxu said:
Ah yes, the player-powered anti-cheat system™.
A revolutionary concept where the burden of proof lies entirely with the victim — provided they’ve anticipated the crime, run third-party recording software at all times, trimmed the footage, uploaded it, written a thesis on it, and submitted it in triplicate.Meanwhile, the actual cheaters? Swift, nimble, and delightfully unburdened by such bureaucracy.
It’s not a lack of anti-cheat — it’s performance art.
A minimalist statement on futility, where trust is outsourced and justice is crowdsourced.And somehow, the real punchline is that this system’s been “working as intended” for years (released 2016 btw).
As someone who works in IT and has done some stuff with security, I can 100% tell you that the fact that you think it doesnt work, while not being invested with cheaters every single match actually proves it works. Just look at CS2, you literally could not go a single match without 1 person having cheats. They didnt even get banned, because Valve updated the anti-cheat in 2020 and left it at that.
You dont need to do anything but report in-game. In most cases, anti-cheat has already put a million red flags on that player and that player is doomed to be banned. In most other cases, it's a new cheat that currently bypasses the system and it will require tweaking to anti-cheat to detect those things.
In theory, BHVR can 100% ban all cheaters automatically, the problem there is, that 20% of non-cheating players will also get banned. Its because BHVR wants to ban as close to 0 non-cheating players as possible that there are still cheaters. But if anti-cheat didnt work, your average match would contain a cheater. Not 1 every 25 matches. -
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922492#Comment_3922492
I am 100% sure that they did not tell you that YOU got them banned. That you reported someone and they got banned does not mean that your ban was responsible. It could also have been that someone else reported them WITH video evidence and then the Cheater got banned.
You 100% need videoproof for reports like this.
No, the reason they(singular individual told me I actually got them banned, was because I was the first and only match they cheated in before not playing for 3 days and then getting banned. Its literally why they told me. They also told me it didnt matter because of things I cant mention here without risking a ban as they were back at it the same day they found out they got banned.
And again, no, you can literally ask support if videoproof is required. Its not, it 100% will speed up the process and is preferable when possible, but the days of requiring videoproof have been gone since mid 2021.
Its like the player logs, they dont need player logs, but if you are on PC, they would prefer if you grab the player logs and send it with it, since it speeds up the process. -
@Malkhrim said:
Now, about Kaneki, I think the devs are going for a similar approach as they went for the Skull Merchant. Back in the old days, they used to nerf killer stuff too much and way too soon, the most infamous case being what happened to the first version of Freddy (he was already weak and got a really hard nerf in the first patch after his release just because low-rank survivors where complaining online). They would sometimes take a killer perk that seemed a little too strong and nerf every aspect of it instead of just making small tweaks. With time, they learned to be more cautious and not make huge nerfs immediatly, which is good, but sometimes they exaggerate on the caution and end up taking too long to nerf something. The Skull Merchant was the worst case of that because she had clearly an insanely problematic design, but the devs were always trying to be cautious and make small reworks on her power instead of making a big change that made her cease to be such a problem for once, which ended up being the huge nerf she received recently. But that nerf STILL sparked a lot of controversy, since it put her in a really weak spot until she gets her full rework. The controversies that massive nerfs start are probably one of the reasons they try so much to avoid doing it.
Yeah but, MASSIVE counterpoint:
You can get survivors to lose Exhaustion upon recieving the mark, and it wouldnt really affect Kaneki's viability at all.
Any other killer, including Nurse, would be utterly demolished if hitting a survivor would reset exhaustion. -
@Zakon05 said:
I hate playing against him, but I think the incremental approach is the best way to go about it. Keep tuning him down slightly, see where he stands after the nerfs. I wanna see how he is after this latest batch of nerfs.
I mean, his power is basically beyond S tier right now. He can definitely take the hit. I am going to be more surprised how much it will take before he turns unplayable.
With 99% of killers, yeah, 100% agree.
Kaneki? You can literally get his tentacle attack to fully REMOVE exhaustion from survivors, and it wouldnt do a thing against his killrate. Imagine being able to use Sprintburst twice against Kaneki within 10 seconds time at the cost of being marked and deepwounded. Wouldnt matter a thing. The fact that you can remove a debuff that even Nurse has issues with if not applied, tells you more than enough how much you can take away without it harming his viability. -
@Na1ts1rhc said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922577#Comment_3922577
Are we supposed to not use his power? Should we just sit afk so you can feel better? It's not on the players. This is a problem with the devs. 2 times have they released a killer way too strong for their own game.
You can choose to not cheese the power tho, yet every single kaneki purely plays to use the cheese.
And its really simple to not cheese the power, simply dont mark someone and then tunnel for an easy kill. -
@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923916#Comment_3923916
So are you saying all those nerfs would be reverted in a month? Or are you after revenge instead of balance?
Its more to make Kaneki disappear for an entire month, so that he can be returned in a balanced way without people having the sour taste like they still have for Skull Merchant. Its now still early enough to do so. Nerfing him a lot right now would only mean 1 month of people talking bad about Kaneki, and the FNaF chapter is gonna bring a LOT of new people who have no clue. Then work him back, BAM instant fun but strong killer for millions of player to face and players who are salty about the first month will forget in 2 weeks due to the massive amount of positive attitude around him.
Its kinda revenge, but long term balance. And not all will be reverted, just tweaked back a lil -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922527#Comment_3922527
And Kaneki doesnt even need to break pallets.
Depends a lot on how the survivor plays and what kind of pallet it is. If you're not playing for the stun/playing for the drop when the power is on cooldown and using that time to position yourself so they either can't vault reliably or you have enough distance to make another loop then yeah.
The Mark cooldown once the last survivor has removed the mark could have been dropped from 40 seconds to 5 seconds. Even then he could basically have infinite enraged mode, because you can definitely hit another survivor with a mark in the time that it takes for a survivor to mend+5 seconds cooldown.
So you want enraged vaulting to be super nerfed and enraged time to be super nerfed and the token thing to remain as-is? Alright, you really do just want the Skull Merchant treatment. There's really no discussion to be had here.
No, the hit recovery post-vault needs a nerf. Not his vaulting. His mark needs a nerf since its effectively permanent t3 myers levels of danger without effort.
And thats not the Skull merchant treatment, dude still has 16 meters range to injure someone with quite a large hitbox, the dude just needs to have a harder time keeping his enraged up permanently, by either keep chasing the same survivor, or find another survivor within 12 seconds. If you cant find another survivor in 12 seconds, then dont leave chase.
Right now, Kaneki's just mark someone so they can tunnel someone else out. Because them being marked means 3 launches for a guaranteed 50 seconds (10 seconds to mend, 40 seconds cooldown), which is more than enough to chase a survivor you're tunnelling early game.
Claiming thats skull merchant treatment is entitlement.
As for losing 2 stacks on pallet break, yeah, they can revert that, that honestly didnt change a thing. They could reset his charges to 1 maybe if it ends up being a problem again, but losing 2 stacks when not enraged is unwarrented.
THEN AGAIN, pallets are limited. Then all you need is a pallet breaking build and bam, massive area's where you will never lose any stacks. -
@Mr_K said:
Because heavy handed nerfs tend to go overboard?
After an entire month of free hits with basically no counterplay, he can do with an entire month of nerfs being gone overboard a lil and then find a healthy average
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I think head-on was intended, because it was something that could be prevented and requires a survivor to actively interact. Where DS and Blast Mine have 0 indication ever.
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@[Deleted User] said:
idk have you actually played against today's changes and have you already figured out the correct counterplay to a ghoul staring at you with his power up at a pallet or
I have, against 5 of them, he is maybe 1% weaker, but still not as counterable. The issue is that Kaneki has a huge leniancy on hitting you with his M2, then stunlocks you and gives you hinderance while they finish their stun. If you arent stunlocked next to a tile, they will M2 to close the gap INSTANTLY and hit you before you even get the ability to vault a window. That is an issue. If Kaneki can charge at me and touch me while I start my vault, and he can hit me before my vault ends, you have a problem.
Wesker, in the exact same situation, has to wait for an additional 2 seconds.
And Kaneki doesnt even need to break pallets. He can just vault over them and hit you before you can finish your vault if you time it pretty much perfectly. The hinderance is still 50%, could have been reduced to 5%.
The Mark cooldown once the last survivor has removed the mark could have been dropped from 40 seconds to 5 seconds. Even then he could basically have infinite enraged mode, because you can definitely hit another survivor with a mark in the time that it takes for a survivor to mend+5 seconds cooldown.
All minor tweaks, would have made playing against Ghoul infinitely more fun. Now its just easy cheesy downs. -
@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921979#Comment_3921979
To be fair I don't recall on the roadmaps it saying "Map Reworks" however, bhvr has discussed various times about reworking specific maps. Like the recent eyrie of crows and on their list is Badham, Backwater, and a few others.
Roadmaps werent really a thing when they announced it. But let me quote what was said when they announced The Realm Beyond:
"In the fall of 2020, we launched The Realm Beyond in Dead by Daylight. Its goal: to revisit, retool, and rejuvenate graphical elements from every corner of the Entity’s Realm, creating the best-looking version of Dead by Daylight fans have ever seen."
Note how they said "EVERY CORNER". Swamp is still the only corner that hasnt been rejuvenated, nor retooled.
And yeah, I know the backwater swamps are talked about, but I want to know when. It's been 5 years since the announcement, since then we have had added variations to existing maps (which, to be fair, is just using existing tiles and putting them in a different order), Forgotten Ruins being added, reworked TWICE and recieving another map(the latter part I dont mind as it was anniversary), Greenville being added and getting 2 maps and Toba Landing being added. We lost Stranger Things and got it back. We gained Pinhead and lost him. We have had Trickster being added and fundamentally changed 6 times in the same time. We even got the Lake Mine added to Ormond.
I would probably be more hyped about Swamp finally getting a rework than Lery's and Hawkins getting breakable walls where there are now closed doors. And thats something I begged for since Dead Dawg Saloon was added. -
@DeBecker said:
Cause they still need him as a pay to win killer.
No, most sales happen in the first month, and thats not been true for a LOT of killers. I am 100% certain its an oversight somewhere, which can happen. But im surprised they didnt listen to people begging them to increase times between an m2 and an m1, because its just objectively an unfair scenario.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922451#Comment_3922451
I believe it has been explicitly stated that video evidence is REQUIRED for review and that reports without it are inactionable for in-game offenses.
If this is not the case, please provide a source, as there are numerous searchable topics stating otherwise.
That was the case back in 2019. Since then, their methods of detecting have been updated and improved.
Depending on if they allow the link, as it is their own website, but I am assuming a mod might check it for validity first: https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us/articles/4408586278676-How-to-report-a-player
This exact page USED to say that video evidence was required for hacking, and would actually give you an entire form to fill in, where you had to supply the name, the profile of the offender, whether you reported them in game or not(they dont neccesarily need that nowadays, as they can check who has had that name in your personal match history, it would just take more time to find them), what time the game happened, what date, what they did, etc. Nowadays that form is just asking for your cloud ID and preferably the profile link of the offender if possible.
Side-note: I still wish they would add a thumbs down button as an option too, because right now unsportsmanlike is the best way to describe certain behaviour (like slugging and then slug camping you for 4 minutes, not bannable, but I need a frustration button so I wont take it into the next game).
But yeah, I've reported some through the support system without video evidence and I know they got banned because they told me I actually got them banned. I wont say what they were doing in the game that I think got them caught, because information, but it does work, even though if it doesnt feel like it.
That is purely them being forced to withold information, because they dont know if you are associated with someone or not. I even send them a profile of someone who has told me that he has friends who use third party software to streamsnipe. I wont share what he shared with me, because again, info, but I am 100% certain that his friends are being watched right now. I know I wont hear back from it, because once again, I could be a mole trying to get information on them on who they caught. But I will also be fairly certain that the person who told me might come back and tell me about it, and depending on what they say, I might send that information too.
Video evidence when possible is always preferable. If you can, try to die early on and spectate the offender as that gives the most visual information when sending video evidence. But it is not needed to get them banned, just to speed up the process. -
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921768#Comment_3921768
Ye the rarity doesn't up, during blood mood event I put everything on Myers. Being p100 I have infinite level 50 web... I literally spent millions and millions of BP on it throughout the event. I prioritised tombstone pieces and RPD (and others) Went from 1 tombstone piece (purple) to about 800 I think. I went from 0 RPD map offerings to about 60. How does that make sense? Clearly RPD is vastly more rare from the amount it came up in the web.
I have always been of the opinion that Maps should get their own rarity. One between current green and blue. Or just be 1 pink offering where you can actively choose the realm when you select it.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
It’s extremely frustrating. It’s a very cumbersome and time consuming process to have to submit video evidence of cheating. Essentially it means that the only way there is even a remote chance of getting a cheater banned, players have to run recording software 100% of the time, which uses system resources and hard drive space. On top of that, it’s a gigantic pain to find the video, edit the video, upload to YouTube, etc. The number of people who are actually recording their matches is very small, and most of them probably don’t even bother going through the reporting process because of how time-consuming it is.
All this because BHVR doesn’t want to invest resources in functioning anti-cheat software. I guess it’s working for them because people are not leaving the game in droves due to cheaters. I will say, to BHVR’s credit, that it has been a quite a while since I’ve encountered a blatant cheater.
You do not have to provide video evidence of cheating. Any player recieving enough reports from individual reliable players will still get investigated more strictly and often will lead to a ban regardless of video evidence. However reliable is specifically determined internally should remain a secret, but generally you can assume people who report less are more reliable than people who report more, people who are found correct will be more reliable than people who are found to be wrong and people who played for a longer time will be more reliable than players who played a shorter time.
Video evidence will always be the second fastest way.
What? Second fastest? Then what would the fastest be? Believe it or not. Anti-cheat. Anti-cheat practically always has detected cheaters long before you even noticed them. They are often flagged and placed on a list, then get banned with the next banwave.
And bans have to happen in waves, because if you autoban people, you give information. Remember the false bans on streams? That was due to cheaters actively trying to find out how they were getting banned, got themselves banned 100+ times untill they realized someone with authority to ban was watching streams, then they tried finding a way to get other people who stream banned and succesfully did so.
You do not want to give them any information on how they were caught. Which is why you almost never hear about people having been banned other than yearly statistics. And even those statistics might not be 100% accurate since giving a slightly false number (lets say 9900 instead of 9932 because those 32 extra will be banned next time they log in).
There probably are some autobans in place to prevent people using ancient cheats, but cheating prevention is difficult unless you use Kernel level anti-cheat. And you dont want kernel level anti-cheat. Some of those are so strict that it might get you banned because you used a mod for a different single player game (also, pretty sure steam is against it). On one hand, kernel level anticheat would literally make it impossible for 99.9% of current cheaters to play. But its in exchange for effectively having a security cam looking at your PC and you dont know what it is looking up about you. -
@I_CAME said:
I remember Otz and others pointed out that it was going to be a buff for killers before it ever went live. It made people start proxy camping which is a far stronger playstyle. Now everyone does exactly that and hovers around just outside the range that starts building the meter. Being face camped by Bubba was annoying but it was never an especially strong strategy if people did generators. The system is basically useless for anything except that exact playstyle. Definitely not worth the time they probably spent on it. It's useless enough that I doubt anyone would really notice if it got removed. The only times i've ever seen it trigger is when the killer was intentionally trying to do so.
The reason it was implemented, was because especially against soloq it was free mmr for some killers.
Thats also why certain abandon features right now feature Draws for survivors when they actively are losing, while killers gain a draw and a lose result. It's to balance out the MMR results so that killers in general will drop MMR(or dont gain a lot of MMR for relying on a mechanic they are actively changing) before the anti-slug is implemented.
In a perfect world, you dont need the anti-camp mechanic, most killers will literally not notice it being there. But it wasnt implemented because of most killers. -
I would say weaving spiders isnt exactly balanced. While it may shave off 9 seconds of all gens, saving about 50 seconds over the entire game worth in gen progress at MOST, it also requires you to sit there for 60 seconds. The average chase from full health to downed takes about 60 seconds on average. So assuming you trigger it at the start, it would be a 10 second loss as a whole. Not even talking about how the first chase can take 10 seconds depending on how close the killer is to basement.
I do think the broken status effect is warrented, but to call it a prime example of a fair perk is not warrented as its a perk you will NEVER see in tournaments due to the net-negative effect. Its the same reason why you rarely see Dying Light despite it genuinely being a good perk overall. It's just a net-negative because you cannot kill or hook the obsession, while survivors will definitely use that information to avoid non-obsessions being hooked. -
@hermitkermit said:
Well, it’s an anti face-camping mechanic. Camping is still very much possible. I don’t think any people are claiming that it isn’t. The whole point of the system was to stop killers from standing directly in front of the hooked survivor.
Camping still exists but it’s not as easy as it used to be, and for that reason I think the mechanic is fine. Sometimes camping is the right move, but now you have to be more strategic about it, which is a good thing.
Personally, I would add a multiplier based on gens left. 3x speed when all 5 gens are still there, 0.5x if there is only 1 gen left. Same reasoning for the basekit hastebonus, make it 30% if 5 gens are left, 5% if there is 1
-
I have 3 issues regarding map related offerings:
1. The survivor counterpart equals the killer counterpart, despite the killer only having access to 1 offering.
2. The offering not being returned if a sac ward is used (which, you may be like its an offering, you lose it, but considering some builds like T1 Myers HEAVILY rely on maps, having the survivors use a sac ward and then bring 3 hook distance offerings is frustrating)
3. they are green rarity, meaning that any individual green slot is rarer than any purple or iri individual slot. You will, as a killer, encounter more ebony mori's in your bloodweb than Midwich offerings, because every single map added will reduce the chance of any specific green appearing in your slot. -
@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921257#Comment_3921257
Let's assume what you said is true (it isn't, but let's assume that).
In OP I said that perks should enhance.
Finesse is not a counter to "killers that are swinging at window vaults". Counter for this are fast vaults, and finnese only enhance that.
Hemmorage and mangled are counter to survs healing, sloppy allow to apply those aside from killers powers.
Aura perks are tracking tools, enhancing killer tracking abilities. Counter for hiding are afk crows.
Thrill of the hunt enhance totems in terms of their endurance.
Etc.
Borrow time is not a counter perk, it's enhancing bk bt.
We can discuss what is and what is not a counter perk, where one can have better arguments than another one in one case but worse in another.
Counter perk is a perk that exists specifically to counter specific thing, like mechanic, tech, perk, killer power.
And it's worth to mention, especially for entitled players - removing counter perks does not means the mechanic should stay as is. Devs are obligated to fix problems, including problematic mechanics.
IF, and I'm going to repeat - "IF" we are going to remove perks that counter tunneling, Devs should fix tunneling problem by buffing other aspects of killer playstyle and incentive NOT tunneling. All those things are connected.
Main point of this topic is - every game mechanic should have build in counters, and perks should not be counters for such things.
Finesse literally counters window grabs tho, it becomes frame perfect due to ping and since you dont know which frame it effectively is a permacounter to grabs. Thrill literally counters using boons to prevent the killer from getting a hex notification as it makes booning longer than doing a generator even tho there boons being slowed down to prevent the killer from getting the hex notification is already a thing. Its not enhancing it, enhancing would be adding 5-10%, not an entire generator's worth of slowdown.
Mangled isnt basekit in the game, no killer has basekit mangled, addons or perks are needed. Hence, counter specifically to healing.
Aura perks arent tracking tools, they literally show you the survivor. Bloodhound is an enhanced tracking perk, Aura's arent. Crows arent a counter for hiding, crows are a counter for AFK.
The only perks that exist right now in the game, that are purely counters to a basekit mechanic that should be (partially) basekit are anti-slug perks. Everything else is not a direct counter. And some perks will counter other perks directly because they "enhance" the opposite sides. Like Iron Will and Stridor counter each other specifically. And that's fine.
The only 3 things that are an issue with design are: 1. Maps being able to counter Hag and Trapper. 2. Slugging requiring perks to have counterplay and 3. Communication gaps between soloq and swf that are too big (like, the anti-camp bar, or survivors who have aura perks being able to call out that information to teammates).
There are balancing issues elsewhere, but those are often a numbers game, when it comes to actual things that need to change in design its only 3 issues. -
@ZombieHChrist said:
i forever want a no-hud, no-auras, like a realism mode… no pop ups, no survivor pictures on screen, just straight plain, just straight plain. if i could set those settings in vanilla mode would be just dandy for me.
I think thats the case for Lights Out anyway, its been a while since we had it, but thats mainly because its so easy to tunnel and slug.
I dont think we'll see Lights Out untill the next QoL update -
@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921288#Comment_3921288
This would be a complete analogue of kindred, just by passing within a radius of 16 meters, the survivors would see that the scale is filling up and would immediately understand where you are
You can’t just get all the perks in the world for freeKindred basekit has been argued for years, and the only reason its not implemented, is because it shows the killer aura.
This would legit be a GOOD way to indicate the killer is camping, as it doesnt show location. That way, insidious Bubba doesnt get a free 2k because of a lack of comms -
@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921020#Comment_3921020
As for the state of DBD, if it wasnt for Kaneki, I would disagree with you. Its generally been better.
I went against Kaneki almost exclusively for the first few days after his release, and after that I saw him much less until by the end of the event I hardly saw him at all.
Killers don't really bother me. No killer can frustrate me the way my teammates can. And believe me, some killers go out of their way to try; like everyone else who plays DbD, I've had matches where I was for some unknown reason singled out and slugged maliciously and what have you. And I laugh: it's such a waste of the killer's time because they will never, never get to me the way my teammates do. Every time I quit early for the day, it's because of my solo queue teammates. (I play solo or duo; playing as a duo lessens the pain, but it doesn't negate it entirely and my friend and I often quit early because we get too many awful teammates.)
So, yeah, my problem isn't balance or killers. It's DbD's SBMM and the teammates it puts me with. Console issues don't help, but it's mainly the teammates.
Killers generally dont bother me, I have specific issues with some (mainly BS mechanics and double standards, like, why does Wesker get basekit lightborn when he grabs any survivor with his power, but Dredge doesnt get it when he locker teleports? he can still be banged with a flashbang, but Wesker, even tho much harder to pull off than Dredge, gets full immunity)
But Kaneki, he is just Chessmerchant levels of BS. The only reason Kaneki loses is because they made multiple misplays or arent good enough yet at using the power (which requires like, 3 matches of practice). Its that I also face him up to 10 times a day that just kills the fun of the game. Because whoo, you got outplayed by someone being able to cancel the power mid air and recover 0.1 seconds after they slide next to you. Imagine if Wesker missed his ability and then hits you within 0.5 seconds anyway. That's how Kaneki is to play against.
Yet, Wraith is forced to slowdown and uncloak before hitting a survivor, Billy has to wait 2 seconds after his chainsaw sprint ends to m1, Legion has a slowdown and a 2.5 second fatique before he can effectively down anyone if he cancels his power. And those are killers who cannot appear on the other side of the map within 2 seconds.
Kaneki feels like 7 blink Nurse, except 7 Blink Nurse allowed you to gain distance due to her 5 second fatique. -
@ZombieHChrist said:
i accept this change as i a killer main, even though survivors could use it and in trade i want to know who is on death hook so i can make sure i double hook all before deciding to kill… yours is more beneficial but i am will to make the trade. only time struggle wiggle free phase comes in play against me is when i want to help them off hook as killer because they ain't getting saved, i mean…. i like have 4 survivors until gates powered or until double hook on, i usually make my games go to the gates. get the end game play time…. Trade Accepted?
Honestly, I would say no to knowing who is on death hook(but maybe yes on who has never been hooked yet?), because that would give people the power to tunnel harder, however, in exchange otherwise, I would want to give the ability to show the wiggle bar to killers when carrying a survivor, since quite a few perks are impossible to deduce for killers without knowing the speed of the wiggle bar for survivors. It would also tell you if you're able to still reach basement or not etc. I would be fine with that info being available to killers since its near impossible to abuse it(assuming upcoming basekit anti-slug mechanics will be actually good).
-
@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/444224/add-the-anti-camp-meter-to-the-hud
In a recent solo match, I was working on the last gen with someone and we could see with the hooked survivor's Kindred that they were being camped. When the gen got near the end, I got off and shook my head no at the other survivor and tried to get him to stop working, but he wouldn't. He popped the gen and, despite everyone's efforts afterwards, the one on the hook ended up dying.
I doubt he would've stopped even if the anti-camp meter was in the HUD. Even if he cared, you'd be amazed how few people use the HUD. I'm broken, but my teammate will spend the entire time teabagging behind me being pissy I'm "not letting them" heal me. Someone will bleed out and the killer will keep trying to pick them up. The HUD might as well not even exist for 80% of the playerbase.
My friend and I, when we play duo, we don't need to see the meter: if someone's being camped, we stop and wait with the gen at 99% until the one on the hook is able to unhook themselves. Because we pay attention to our teammates and we care. Our teammates? They either don't pay attention or they don't care. It's frustrating.
(I'm not saying I don't want the anti-camp meter in the HUD. I do. It'd make things a lot easier, take out some of the guesswork, especially if I don't have eyes on the hooked survivor. I just wanted to rant about how much my matches suck. I hope the next event isn't for a few months… or years… it feels nice leaving DbD to rot and playing anything else right now.)
Oh yeah, I dont think it will solve the problem, but it will definitely improve things. It will serve as a reminder. Even in my most selfish moods I would look and see if they are close to unhooking themselves, because that would buy me more time to open the gate.
And yeah, even I will sometimes forget, I once had Bond to show my teammates and for some reason still ran to the gen they were on with the killer on my ass. I just actively ignored what was on my screen entirely while my last braincell was trying to keep pathfinding away from the killer. It happens, sometimes maliciously, sometimes forgetfully, but its about improvement.
As for the state of DBD, if it wasnt for Kaneki, I would disagree with you. Its generally been better. I am literally mainly quitting because of Kaneki and the bs state he is in. But once he gets the changes he needs to be fun to face (like, removing the mark when mending even if its the last one, adding a 2 second fatique, removing the full on 2 second stun on survivors or increasing kaneki's stun with 2 seconds), then I would 100% be back as its been in a really healthy state lately. -
@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920869#Comment_3920869
They dont get the information for free, they tell each other it, much like they also tell where the Killer is as well.
By the Logic, is the Killer is spotted elsewhere then an in-game warning system should tell that to the other players.This game believe it or not is not designed for COMP gameplay exclusively, this is why yes SWF can break the game in harsh ways that isnt meant to be used by normal players, however these are in the vast minority and not a huge problem. As far as I am aware of it.
Them getting the information for free=not having to do anything special to gain that information. Not having to bring perks, not having to bring items, not having to bring offerings or addons.
As for where the killer is, we do have that pretty much basekit too using the entity when they are in chase and general gamesense gets you fairly accurate. I can pretty much guess where my teammate is with the killer and be right 90% of the time."By the Logic, is the Killer is spotted elsewhere then an in-game warning system should tell that to the other players."
And yes, there should be a ping system in game. Simple pings too. Killer here, gen here, totem here, survivor here.
That would close the gap between swf and soloq.
"This game believe it or not is not designed for COMP gameplay exclusively, this is why yes SWF can break the game in harsh ways"
This hasnt been true at all since 2022. Killers are designed to deal with SWF on comms. Perks are designed specifically with SWF on comms in mind. Its why Shoulder The Burden can only be used once per perk and gives exposed, because it genuinely shouldnt matter if hooks get spread out like that as you're generally supposed to chase the unhooker anyway. Prior to 2022, a lot of perks and killers were designed around soloq and a lack of communication. But against some killers, you need really good soloq players or comms to get a 4 man escape, if you dont have top tier teammates or comms you will maybe get a 2 man escape if you're lucky.
Its not comp balanced, for sure, because both SWF, and high tier killers like Nurse can legit break the game (I mean, starstruck awakened awareness meta 2 years ago on nurse alone is the example there). But not comp balanced doesnt mean its not designed with comp gameplay in mind. Otherwise, why nerf anything at all? Why nerf old BNP? It wasnt a problem except in swf. -
@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920865#Comment_3920865
I have to agree with Jester here regarding boons, Survivors have to contribute a lot of time to keep putting them up which is a lot of time wasted compared to the second I spend ridding of it, I'd rather survivors bring boons than other perks because of this. lol
As for the rest I wholeheartedly agree, much like Borrowed time, I do sometimes wonder what QoL Killer could recieve of the same kind sometimes:
-BBQ? (to keep match momentum and incentivise leaving the hook, could be on first time hook for each survivor but the perk extends the effect and works on every hook)
-Monstrous shrine?
-Pain res to incentivise spreading hooks?
I'm not saying these SHOULD be added bare in mind, I'm just brainstorming possible QoL to encourage killers to play in a more fairer way but also reward themThe only current QoL I can think of is showing hook aura's in orange if they are in area's that have unfinished gens.
Like, the amount of killers that rely so much on genregression perks to win games because they dont know how to use hooks is insane. I have been next to basement a few times, and killers go out of their way to not hook inside the basement because it saves them 4 seconds of time.
In contrast to that, survivors are kinda forced to heal up before rescuing from basement, where they can be injured in any other case. So just the act of hanging someone in basement forces survivors to heal up or otherwise its a hooktrade at best.
Just things like that could be a QoL by making basement hooks ALWAYS orange, and hooks next to unfinished gens also orange (because survivors wont be working on that gen as long as someone is hooked there). -
@Emeal said:
I think the reason BHVR hides it is because Survivors are not supposed to play around it or use it as a mechanic.
its purpose is only to deter the Killer from hanging around.So then why does SWF get that information for free? Why does SWF get to play around it and use it as a mechanic?
The killer doesnt see the bar either, so the killer doesnt get to know how long to hang around either.
Any information that SWF gets should be information displayed in the HUD, no exceptions. -
@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919941#Comment_3919941
That's not the point. If you have a killer who can manage to slug everyone, but the game says this match is a draw, it really paints a half baked picture of the strength of that killer.
I know kill rate stats were never super reliable to begin with, but this has really made them worthless now.
I think it is done this way to somewhat mitigate MMR before basekit anti-slug measures are added. Slugging is by far the biggest reason why people who shouldnt be in higher MMR's still reach higher MMR's. While it does take skill to mass slug against SWF, it doesnt take much skill to slug against soloq.
The abandon feature is already meant to be a temporary bandaid fix, it will just make sure that survivors dont lose MMR because of mass slugging, and that killers dont gain MMR from mass slugging or even lose MMR from mass slugging.
I dont believe the abandon feature will come up as much later on in the DBD lifespan.
If you care that much about MMR, then you simply shouldnt abandon. Just because they're bots doesnt mean you should be lazy. The survivor picked the draw option, you dont have to, you still have to go through the same actions regardless if the survivors abandoned or not and you choose not to.
As for the 10 minutes one, I cannot think of any single match where 2+ survivors are capable of hiding for 10 minutes without the killer having been able to check every nook and cranny of the map. And with 2 survivors left, I can kinda see that happening sometimes, but then it would effectively be an MMR tie as you already won against 2 survivors. You're only drawing/losing against the survivors who have not been sacrificed yet. -
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917733#Comment_3917733
Don't fall for the misunderstanding that kill rate is win rate. A 60% kill rate doesn't mean they win 60% of their matches.
That means the average kill rate is roughly 2.4 survivors a match. This means a 60% kill rate is sliiiiightly under getting a 3k+ every match half of the time.
If the game is balanced around each survivor having their own win condition (like it currently is), then that maths out to each survivor needing a 38.5% escape rate. This gives killers a 50% chance to win. Yes, as a survivor you personally have a smaller chance to win than a killer, but you must keep in mind the killer is facing FOUR survivors, not just you.
If the game is balanced around survivors winning and losing together (and opens up the possibility of ties), then each survivor would need a 44.2% escape rate for the killer team and survivor team to have an equal winning probability when also respecting ties.
Killrates are directly tied to winrates tho. Because it shows where the average is. A 50% killrate, means killers win and lose matches equally as they tie. Any killrate higher than 50% directly means that more games are won.
And a 50% killrate, doesnt mean a 50% escaperate on average either. A 50% killrate could still mean a 65% escaperate. Thats because your maths assumes that 1 killer in a match=4 survivors. While in reality, you can have greg, susan, harry and megatron face killer carl. Greg and susan dying early on within the first 5 minutes and joining the next match with pietro and mary and facing killer nicole having mary and greg die after 5 minutes, with susan escaping after an additional 5 minutes and leaving pietro behind to die. While harry and megatron lasted an additional 10 minutes.
So you have a timespan of 15 minutes, killers carl and nicole both getting 5 kills in total, greg and pietro having a 0% escaperate, susan having a 50% escaperate and the other 3 survivors having a 100% escaperate.
Doing the maths gets you a 62.5% killrate for killers, and an 58.3% escaperate for survivors.
Since there is player overlap between killers, killrates and escaperates are impossible to properly calculate. You can have a 50% escaperate for survivors, and still have a 65% killrate for killers. -
@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919714#Comment_3919714
that just shows how terrible average surv player is even more because you can give them easiest path to win and thay will still not be able rto get advantage of it lol
Nah, its because different strategies exist beyond full gen regression. Asian servers rarely rely on gen regression. In fact, I could very easily tell if the killer was a genregression addict like you or not depending on how they played, and they heavily contributed to the fact that the killrate was so low. They were too focussed on "oh no, losing gens so gotta tunnel and hook this person ASAP so I dont waste any more time" rather than what the people who actually did get 4k's did: spend 5 seconds extra hooking someone next to high value gens, ignore low value gens.
If any, it showed how terrible a lot of the killers were and how much they rely on soloq's lack of comms to even get any kills. -
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919705#Comment_3919705
There are a lot of survivor sided maps when playing M1 killers. Maybe not as survivor sided for speed killers like blight but for standard M1 killers and stealth killers in particular with no major speed boost there are a lot of survivor sided maps. Tried playing stealth on wreckers, cold wind farm, eiree, badlam, Macmillan, Ormand? People can see the killer coming from miles away on large open maps and if you look at the total map variety there are more large open outdoor maps than there are small enclosed maps.
yeah, but those same maps are killer sided if you introduce mobility. Midwich is very anti-m1, as an example, but Nurse and Blight have fielddays on those maps.
And stealth play has been out of meta for ages, thats like survivors trying to go for boons. It can still work tremendously well, but it relies too much on maps and how objects spawn in the map (aka, RNG effectively). -
@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3919714#Comment_3919714
Just curious, can you tell me where the stats are for the blood event killrates? I haven't been able to find them anywhere.
There arent official stats, I have just been collecting data from people who, like me, enjoy keeping spreadsheets on average rates while playing the game, some I personally know, some from reddit.
We tend to have relatively accurate numbers too, as an example, in games where we had access to all steam profiles we ended up with about an 40% escaperate on soloq, 41% on duo's, 45% on 3 man and 47% on 4 man, all rounded ofcourse, but still pretty close. Since, on average, that translates to about a killrate of 63%. Which sounds odd, but is mainly due to the fact that survivors can play more games in 1 hour than killers can. If a killer plays 3 games and gets a 4k in 2 of them and a 2k in 1 of them, those same survivors could have played 5 games in which they died in only 2 of them.
During the blood event, when playing survivor, on average we found that killers got a killrate of 57% where survivors got an escaperate of about 46% on average. I personally went on vacation during most of the event, so the dataset available is smaller and thus more biased. But I wouldnt be surprised if the killrate was actually about 54% and the escaperate at 48%, which, genuinely would be quite surprising. The main reasons we saw killers lose was because they didnt know how to use hooks to their advantage, and the main reason we saw survivors lose was because they didnt know how to deal against strategic hooks. That, and slugging ofcourse. But tunnelling was punished by survivors rushing blood gens, and survivors rushing gens was punished by getting them hooked in the center of 2/3 blood gens.
I think for Reddit you would have to dig down about 40 posts of the last person posting their stats tho. -
@buggybug said:
I rather it remove in the whole game, am tired of trying to use my cake offerings and either side tends to bring them. Like sure I have 360 sac wards left and my trevor finally is p 100 but I can't even use the last set of BP stuff I want to to go back to playing Leon who is my number one main e.e. Just remove them fully. Am so glad other assem games or least the ones I play do not allow map picking.
I would be fine with map offerings being gone if certain builds, perks or addons didnt heavily rely on maps. On either side, but most criminally t1 myers (especially since they went out of their way to nerf the addon after the rework).