Deadeye
Deadeye
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In what way would it be exploitable? Cant think of any scenes where Artist got exploited for that. I mean, you can use M1 near hooks, so what's the problem? You can charge the chainsaw after the unhook too
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@Devil_hit11 just as info, because I also compared PT with hyperfocus. I did that to explain the difference in power, Im not saying that PT is trash or hyperfocus would always be the pick over PT with these comparisons
just again: your first post that I responded to was "you can do 45sec gens with PT as well". Which sounds like PT is as strong as hyperfocus but without having to hit great skill checks. and this is wrong. you cant do the same things with PT. it is easier to use but has less possible effect. that's all
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146967#Comment_3146967
I'm not exaggerating, I'm just saying the playerbase changes, so you cant compare Hyperfocus with old Ruin. These are two different "ages".
DBD is the same game. if anything there is less of incentive to go for great skill-checks because they have little relevance on impact on the match. that's largely why survivor is so strong because every single survivor is as threatening as another. at least when it comes to do generators. Hyperfocus is self-imposed ruin but instead of the perk hurting when you fail, the perk does opposite, it rewards you for success. the punishment itself is failing to use the perk. There is no "different ages".
what do you mean with "2 survivors is not requirement"?
exactly what it sounds like. there is no reason why 3 survivor are not always glued to generator on every second that the killer in a chase. the strength of the perk is that prove thyself doesn't require you to go out of your way to get value out of it. it just automatically happens by the product of survivor gameplay. the way you get fast generators is by having high-up time on gens and this perk increases your team's efficiency through up-time.
you are still more effective when both survivors work on different gens regarding total gen progress.
why bother running to gens? Why should you spend 20 second running to gens when you can spend 20 seconds on generator themselves with teammates. Why bother doing split gen progress such that killer can regress it when you can just do centralize generators at the start of the match and then force killer to walk to each gen by abusing large map design? I'm sure you'll love it when your playing killer on Eyrie crows and you have 1 gen on each corner of the map spending 30 seconds to walk to each gen to get into next chase as m1 legion. Why should learn to loop for longer then 53 seconds to finish 1 gen when you can learn to loop for only 46 seconds? It means you can just fail at every chase and still escape regardless even if the killer chases are near instant. Its funny that you mention 30 second chases because prove thyself already does that through most basic team-play elements for survivor. If the killer fails any individual chase drastically past 30 seconds, you likely to lose more then 2-3 gen and most likely entire match as killer.
Hyperfocus also increases your team overall efficiency by increasing your individual efficiency but its way harder to get value of in comparison to latter easier option. it has higher potential but most player are unlikely to hit it. If it was so easy to hit it, then you would be fine having old-base kit ruin as base mechanic for survivor for doing gens.
I repeat once, because you again miss the point. if you miss that again I think we can stop talking. in short:
- you argued that hyperfocus is a bad perk, because the 45s you can do with hyperfocus can be done with PT as well
- I argued that you cant compare these two perks, because they have completely different conditions and powerlevel
- you argued that most survivors wont be able to make use of hyperfocus because they suck at great skillchecks and compared that to old ruin times
- I argued that you cant compare the playerbase to that time because playerbase evolves and that IF you manage to get great skillchecks, the effect of hyperfocus is massively higher than PT even can dream of
survivors holding M1 on gens were always at the same threat level to killers, nothing has changed on that since old ruin is gone. and regarding great skillchecks I can tell you that me and my friends are at a 60-70% success rate, I know several streamers that go for great skillchecks no matter what even if it is just for the extra BP, especially on gens, since repairs is the least efficient BP source.
PT doesnt increases your team's efficiency if there are no mates sitting on the same gen as you. no perk value if that doesnt happen. also when you say this as "no requirement", then you could say that there is no requirement to great skillchecks either on hyperfocus. you just occassionally hit your greats and get value. no need to get 6 of them in a row or to get out of your way to force perk value. same as with how you argued about prove. what's the difference? this really doesnt make sense to me. you have a requirement for coop on gens or you get no value.
btw you have to run 20 sec to the next gen anyway, at least once your gen is finished. doesnt make a difference if you do that sooner or later, you will have to travel at one point. and since PT gets weaker for every survivor past 2, then it would actually sometimes make sense to leave depending on the imnportance of that gen that you are sitting on.
and again, as I said you can run hyperfocus on a single survivor, allowing more gen boost than PT can grant with the need of 2 survs repairing the same gen. so what is better, one in a chase and 3 people finishing a single gen or one in a chase and 2-3 others finishing 2-3 gens? the thing on sitting at the same gen is either you get fast progress refusing the killer to interrupt that gen but you can also get interrupted and 2 survivors are in chase. having surge/ruin or whatever even allows that progress to be completely wasted. doing split gens allows one of the gens to get finished because the killer cant, as you said, travel 30 seconds from gen to gen, down survivors and protect all of the gens. both scenarios happen, both have risk/reward and you need to check individually what is the correct solution, depending on which killer, where the chase is and whatever needs to be taken into consideration.
again to sum up: you say hyperfocus is bad and your only argument is that people wont hit great skillchecks. this is simply wrong and I dont get why you compare it with PT because it is a completely different scenario to make use of it. with 2 people hyperfocus you can even compete in a 3gen scenario with only 3 survivors alive. harder to do with PT. Im not saying PT is bad or has no use. And Im totally not saying that hyperfocus outplays PT. also again: both perks have different use scenarios. both have their use cases, hyper focus has the higher potential and the higher skilllevel but definitely not a bad perk. and there are enough people to hit great skillchecks, which can be compensated with stake out, until you learned to hit them (which will also make you not go out of your way and fail a lot of skillchecks, because with stake out you have an incentive to hit the skillchecks rather too late than too early)
if you want to argue, pls always keep the above 4 bullet points in mind.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3145819#Comment_3145819
Well, killers got buffed, and they tunnel and camp more than before, because it turned from a loosing strategy to a winning one. The right nerf might actually revert that, instead of enforcing it.
tunneling was always a winning strategy, you just could focus too hard and ignoring the free hits and stuff. also most failing tunnel attempts were combined with camping, which made you lose time. but when you did your stuff while your target was on hook and just go for it as soon as possible, even finishing your current chase and then go for the tunnel to keep up the pressure, then tunneling always guaranteed the 3-4k when you get the first kill early enough. thats why I think DS needs to go back to 5s and activate after every unhook
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first, comments on the perks:
first of, I dont think that you are the only person doing gens when you run selfcare. since the nerf this is the biggest time waster available. you say fixing gens is the most important thing and run this? inner healing is too situational? this sounds like you want to heal everytime you can, is that correct? or do you do gens injured? sounds a bit contradictory tbh. selfcare was always a perk that could be played badly by always healing, rather than offering the possibility to heal when you HAVE to which was the true strength of selfcare.
I would use clairvoyance over left behind because it has a bigger radius and has usage during the match as well. and since it requires a totem to activate, I would exchange selfcare with inner healing on top. normally 2 heals per match without a mate nearby is totally fine
second: to you and this thread
the way you argue vs other opinions make me think that it isnt even worse posting in here...
you insinuate over other people's playstyle and whatever, without even talking about what they said. just destructive wording etc
btw this is still your argumentation of winning, this is just an opinion. pips tell you that you can blackpip with an escape and +pip while dying. pips are the closest thing to a definition of winning that the game offers, everything else is subjective
and how do you regard CoH as time waster when running selfcare xD it is one perk that allows your whole team to reset, no grouping needed so the other survivors can fix gens. place it in a deadzone or where gens are already finished so the killer has no reason to go there. saves tons of time. and no decent survivor needs small game to find totems, you know the spawns and occassionally run past these, no need to waste time searching them, you place boons when you see a totem, thats it. and you cant add the placing + healing to count for a single heal. you need to calculate the average on how many healings have been done with that single boon placement. if you place it in the open or between a 3gen so the killer has no problems snuffing it all the time, then you played CoH as bad as selfcare when people die on hook while you heal
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146929#Comment_3146929
your statemate makes it sound like killer is afk entire match. 4 gens in 45 seconds. I don't think i need to go anymore in detail for what is wrong with this statement. as for prove thyself, 2 survivors is not requirement, its given and its extremely consistent bonus increases effective up-time of entire team. as for ruin statement, there were no double window shack pallets during old hex:ruin's time. your exaggerating how long ago it was. I'm just saying that skill-cap of the perk is higher then you would perceive.
I'm talking about the potential. Make it 3 survivors finish 3 gens in 45s when one survivor can manage a 30 second chase to make it sound more realistic. And you miss my point. The post I quoted from you started like you wanted to say "Prove can do the same" which is not comparable at all. That's what my response was about. Different conditions, different skill requirement, different potential.
And what do you mean with "2 survivors is not requirement"? There is no consistent bonus if people dont join you on gens. Btw Prove gives you a nerf reduction on coop gens, you are still more effective when both survivors work on different gens regarding total gen progress. Prove/coop only allows you to finish a gen early enough to give the killer less chance to interrupt you with scourge hooks or pop etc. but in the end Prove just adds a few seconds to that scenario, not 45 seconds that Hyperfocus + Stakeout can give you. (btw I made a mistake, 53 seconds is the coop time without Prove, with prove it takes 46 seconds, so Prove actually saves you 7 seconds when two survivors work on the gen from 0 to 100)
and the comparison I picked was to show that the playerbase changed. During double window (not pallet) shack time, people were learning the game and couldnt abuse it. You could as some videos show, but nearly noone thought about it. During old Hex: Ruin, people were not consistently going for great skill checks, although there were already a few streamers that always hit like the first pixel of the success zone even when not going against Ruin. I'm not exaggerating, I'm just saying the playerbase changes, so you cant compare Hyperfocus with old Ruin. These are two different "ages".
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Especially on indoor maps which are basically the major ones that have multiple levels there are a lot of LOS blockers that you can use against her. On top, survivors can use multi level maps against her, because on upper levels she cant "cancel" her power as she would go down a level when you are upstairs.
I think this change is too map dependend to be "good"
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I think he just needs the adjustment that every other perk got, so that perks dont interact with his power anymore. Like the moving skillchecks in Merciless storm or reverting dislocated Overcharge skillchecks should go. Everything else is fine, he is not OP or anything, the only thing is that he can correctly time shocks to deny unhooks, but also not sure how to adress this. Maybe let hooked survivors be shockable, pausing the entity progression while shocked xD
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146663#Comment_3146663
you can do gens in 45 seconds with prove thyself with no skill-check required. the average player using hyper focus is more likely to blow up gens then get actual progress from that perk. thinking about old hex:ruin and how many survivor at that time were just running around entire map looking for hex:ruin or failing consecutive skill-checks that was regressing gens for free. that perk made half of your survivor teammates completely useless. in those days, I remember having to do 5 generator solo while ruin staying up the entire game. what soloq experience....that was. Hyper focus is high skill perk that requires you be uninterrupted to on gen to get value out of it. the yd vod for ohmwrecker was him getting interrupted entire game and he was missing skill-checks which reset the perk. Like @OrangeBear said, its mostly fun meme perk.
i think some people might use it with self-care because it increases healing speed of self-care and you can 99% your healing with this is not happening sort of how some players 99% resilience. hyper focus might make self-care less of meme perk and more of serious healing option.
Prove requires a second survivor and requires 53 seconds, Hyperfocus can make 4 survivors finish 4 gens in 45 seconds. That's a bit of a difference. And Hex Ruin is loooong ago, that was a different playerbase. Might be that there are more survivors percentually that don't regularly hit great skillchecks, but in total numbers there are also more survivors that can compared to back then. What you do would be like comparing the current game to old double window shack with no entity blockers and no mid vaults
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146663#Comment_3146663
I'd like to see a clip of that.
Also hyper focus is pretty much ONLY a good perk if you combine it with stake out. The average player can't hit great skill checks consistently.
U think so? When I run Overcharge I get a different opinion
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3146657#Comment_3146657
I'd rather bring Prove Thyself over Hyperfocus and Kindred instead of Wiretap.
They are pretty weak when you look at them relatively.
Wiretap in practicality is also not that good. It has the Deliverance Curse where killer kicks gen more often if you have it, and 14 meters is not that big of a range and it doesn't work with Open-Handed.
this should be a bug then. if kindred works with open-handed, then this should work as well. has the same conditions
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@ThePrizz said:
Wesker seems like such a waste of potential to me.
First of all his base model should have been the already infected version, he will probably get a skin in order to look like this, but the basic version does not fit this game at all, he looks like a boring dude that has Venom from the marvel movies on his arm.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0YJ5DHQ37WHY/uroboros-albert-wesker.png
Second of all, his kit is lame. A dash that chokes and throws people. Massive meh, nothing creepy to it. I expected more destruction from such a character. Wasted potential as I said
ummm.. doesnt fit? So Legion, Trapper, GF, Slinger, Trickster, Huntress don't fit as well?
And I think it is pretty subjective, because smashing and throwing survivors was super funny on the PTB and several streamers loved that as well
@Crowman said:
I'm really hoping reassurance gets some kind of adjustment. I like the perk, but I don't see the ability to keep survivor on the hook indefinitely not becoming an issue.
In what way? It perfectly counters camping which is a big issue. And buying time on the hook definitely helps a lot. If you happen to get found near the hook and we all know looping the hook is a bad thing, this could help out to waste a bit of killer time and then leave the hook once you got hit to allow someone else the unhook.
Btw what is the issue with trolling? Just that the survivor is staring at you on the hook for too long? Is this really a problem?
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The same reasoning why survivors tbag/clicky
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I think TR size is something fundamental that gives you a pretty much precise information about distance to the killer. I dont even get why there was a need to give him 40m at all, and I would heavily dislike if more killers get more random TR sizes because it completely shakes up your intuition. Like if you would change the flashlight/pallet save timing every other patch
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@OniWantsUrLocation said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/341822/date-of-new-chapter
That should be 3 weeks after the PTB. I don't know if there was ever an exception to this rule, except for the earlier days when we received the update 2 weeks after the PTB. So August 30th it is.
there was. I have seen so far 1-3 weeks after PTB closes for fixing and changing what has been identified in the PTB. Although 2 weeks for fixing is the most common thing so far. Not sure how big the issue list is this time, havent played too much PTB. But I noticed that especially on RPD, Weskers hitboxes were almost unplayable, like Blight was unplayable on Hawkins on his PTB. So not sure if this is adressed, but at least could imagine that stuff like this could extend the bugfix time
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If Legion and Plague (which were mentioned in the patch notes) were the main thing that caused the oppressiveness, also mentioning the stacking of other slowdown perks, then I totally think how they changed it was exactly the opposite of what they wanted to do. Those two will be the only killers to consistently reach 4 stacks, having the same effect as before the nerf, and also still being able to stack with other slowdown, while Gift of Pain even got buffed, stacking even harder slowdowns than before.
And on the other hand, every other killer literally CANT play thana anymore as they normally never get to 4 stacks. Maybe was worth it on hit&run builds with Dredge or Wraith, but these types of builds were kinda dead since the release of Mikaela...
My suggestion would be to change the numbers like "first stack gives 6%, second stack gives 5%, then 4% then 3% or something like that. Or give only 3 stacks of slowdown, adjusting the numbers until it seems fair, adding another nice effect on 4th stack. Like everytime the 4th survivor is injured, all survivors scream and reveal their location or something. That way every killer would get a bit easier value from the perk, while the last 1/2 stacks don't affect gen time that hard anymore, reducing the impact of Legion and Plague with this perk
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A lot of these perks would at most get a 0.5 from me. Seeing the aura is way better than a survivor yelling "main building, circling counter clockwise, am at south now". You still roughly have to guess and information might get to you too late.
Ever wanted to take a protection hit indoor? No problem with Bond, but let your mate explain you where he is and where you have to run to get into the chase from the correct angle. Won't think you make it as consistently as with Bond. Ever tried to tell your team where the hex is on Shelter Wood? "next to a tree and a rock" hell yeah.
And NO SWF EVER always knows where EVERY survivor is at EVERY time. you couldnt talk that much or understand 4 people spamming simultaneously. you dont communicate every little inch ouf your path and also dont give out any information that might actually be important to your team. You never have the situation "I thought you are in chase?!" -> "I still have chase music! No idea when he left me"
Also I disagree with your list of what perks cant give you. Knowing the killer? There are plenty of signs that tell you. Status changes on the HUD, screams, TR... Hook saves are pretty easy to perform, there are just too many noobs I guess that never learned it correctly. Endgame unhooks have a pretty simple pattern, only 2 people are needed for a save unhook. Body blocks? as said above, Bond is even better to coordinate that than SWF
Perks are way better and reliant than SWF. No doubt SWF can give out important information that is better than being solo Q, but you are exxagerating waaaay too much.
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Would love to not play against you... random ranting because someone does not play the way you want is basically what causes a lot of frustration on your side and anyone that most likely has to deal with your afterchat
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the faster blinking needed to be nerfed, nurse is already too strong and faster blinking gives you even less time to react for any type of unpredictable movement, so it is good that it will be nerfed.
And actually this is not a nerf but a bugfix. When she got her addon pass, she had no faster blinking with these addons, that effect accidentially returned on a later patch
@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3131907#Comment_3131907
One of the aspect of Omega Blink nurse that did get removed when they nerfed nurse with the recharge mechanic was they made it so she had to charge longer to go longer distances. Before range addons made it so you could blink further and faster while charging less.
which was actually super bad bcause it f##### up your muscle memory, as the "dot" you would see with the flannel was moving faster than normal. So OP as long as you use it, but you get back to baby state when you ever run out of these addons. But anyway, good they are gone. Since the chain blink window is limiting the second blink and therefore the addons only affect the very first blink, this is then basically just an addon for better mobility, but not for better chase. So this is nice to have
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For me it is trapper because his power is 0 interaction. Just randomly the chase ends and you go like "well, ok. good chase"
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@BenOfMilam said:
Legion, Pig, and Pinhead. Matches take 20+ minutes due to the killer's natural slowdown.
Hag, Bubba, and Trickster. These guys are mostly fine, but they can just decide to start hard camping at anytime and there's very little you can do to secure an unhook.
Pyramid Head, Nemesis, and Artist. Annoying lose/lose gameplay at every single loop. Anti-loop is fun on most killers, but with these ones it's just quite boring to look at all your available options and it basically amounts to "do you want to be hit by an M1 or an M2."
I also dislike vs'ing Spirit with MDR and Cherry Blossom. You just can't really do anything meaningful in chase other than pray you get to a window or pallet in time. Spirit without busted add-ons is fine, though.
You seem to not like to play DBD xD
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bubbles always were like that, hiding auras of whatever perk. I dont think they will change that
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3121306#Comment_3121306
Not true look at nurse the best Killer in game. If you throw someone who's never played nurse before into a match they are most likely going to do bad. If you do the same with someone who is decent on nurse the results are completely different.
Again, then it is a B tier player, not a B tier killer. Or would you call a High Precision Oszilloscope or Bosch tools (or what ever top brand you know) bad if they are used by the wrong person?
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/339767/how-is-spirit-an-s-tier-killer
I think she's only S with specific addons and a decent player. At base with out the combo she's probably A though I haven't played her after the IW nerf.
I think being an S tier killer does not depend on the player. It is what the kit gives you, not what the player makes of it
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083002#Comment_3083002
Tunneling did got buffed no ds as threat anymore I tried one game to tunnel did it in less than 2 minutes and felt bad but I had to see how powerful it is now.
doing the same. tried some hard tunnels and worked well, now playing fair until gens fly, then tunnel to catch up
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There is quite a list of killers where DH is still useful.
- Hag, Nurse, Blight, Billy/Bubba chainsaw, Pig dash and Oni in rage will have a hard time or will not be able to wait for the dead hard because the power makes them miss in any way if they try to "wait"
- Several killers with zoning power will at least give a clear timing when you have to use it, so that it can be countered at least on undropped pallets or when turning corners. (P Head ranged, Plagues Corrupt, Nemi tentacle, Artist birds, Huntress, Trickster and Demo shred)
- Spirit has super low reaction time after a phase unless she always waits after a phase to hit, otherwise you could just learn the timing by listening to the phasing sound.
- Clown bottles and Pyramid Head trails will hide the DH animation, so "waiting out" will not be possible.
Timing in open field will definitely be super hard, we all know dedicated servers. But I already noticed that some survivors dont just try to time it but combine it with 360ing and POV tech, so you don't actually see when DH triggers. Depends a bit on playstyle then, if the killer flips mouse to hit circling survivors or waits until he blocks the movement, which will again give the survivor a good timing spot to pull the trigger. But that will definitely be the hard part to pull a successful DH.
Btw Dead Hard for sabo plays is still working as good as before. Even better because the killer has a longer cooldown after a wipe than after a miss like before.
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This will only be fixed if the game core changes. Playing 3v1 is by nature easier than a 4v1 and therefore tunneling will always be the most effective strategy to win. Not doing so results in "genrush", doing so results in survivors leaving the game early. This is simply part of the game.
To adress this, you would for example need a trial wide hook count. Not personal 3 hook states. Count hooks and once you reach let's say 7 hooks, the next hook will be a sacrifice. You can tweak around that and increase or lower the number, I think first kill on 4th hook pretty much feels like tunneling, and I think everyone can agree that killer games that have no kill after 8 hooks are pretty tough and give survivors a ton of time to finish all gens and are pretty rare. You could even lower the hook count to 6 and add the condition that you definitely have your first hook stage, so that you definitely get your chance for 4% or Deliverance. So that hooking one or two survivors 6 times will not cause someone to die first hook. Tweak it until it feels fair for both sides.
Just as an idea that there is a way this could be adressed. But you need a groundshaking change like this to get rid of tunneling, otherwise it will always lead to the 3v1 target that makes killer life way easier.
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@Archive512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3084052#Comment_3084052
ah okay, so i dont need to p3 them, just p1 them then sink some bloodwebs into the killer.
yeah, you will have to think about on how many killers you want the perks because you unlock them for all ~30 characters
On a character that already has all perks unlocked, you will need to spend around 350k BP to get the 3 new tier 1 perks to tier 3, so depending on how many killers you want to upgrade it might be worth it to prestige the perk sharer instead
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I tried to level everyone as cheap as possible once they announced the change and had an average of 1,42 million per prestige, ranged from 1,35 to 1,48 million
But that contained the option to have the entity spawn after 3 picks by getting a perk. when you have everything P3 already and dont get any perks, the entity will spawn after 5 picks, making it noticeably more expensive for all the webs on level 30+
I saw Tofu check once for a killer he already had all perks on and it cost I think around 1.7 million BP for a full prestige although I think he could have done it a bit cheaper sometimes, but also don't think that you can manage to get below 1.6 million
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@RenRen said:
I don't know what it's like for other people but it's not the camping, tunneling, gen speed, the shorter hit cooldown, the faster pallet break, it's none of those. It's how well the survivors are looping and for some reason they are doing worse. Even though nothing changed about the looping besides dead hard.
and that is the issue. they dont have dead hard anymore. at least that's what I think, because I noticed a special behavior in pre patch DH chases.
it was a life saver and if played correctly like a third health state. with old dead hard I noticed several times that survivors play super greedy and go for the omega mindgames, pulling them off several times and being rewarded because this is how you play tiles. if survivors loop like that, it was most likely already an indicator that they have dead hard equipped
then they fail one mindgame and get away with dead hard. after that, often the down comes quickly because they seem to get afraid as they are not guarded anymore with a safe escape and play tiles differently. which is what you experience, a survivor that has no dead hard anymore.
by the way, all the small buffs you mentioned add up. like the shorter speed boost and shorter cool down can make the difference if you can actually make it to the second next loop or if you have to stick to the next loop you find, saving 10 seconds of shift+W from loop 1 to loop 2
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083402#Comment_3083402
I'll tell you one thing and not gonna apply anymore.=)
Before the update, If I decide to tunnel 1 survivor, there is nothing can stop me, not a single perk, not a single bodyblock, not a single thing.
I'm not playing stupid, believe me, If I was tunneling - this guy is dead. Thats it.
Do you really think if the killer decide to tunnel, that DS is gonna stop him? DS even with 5 seconds wasn't a problem my guy. Just eat it and get back to buiseness. BT wasn't providing a haste, so I could just block any window or pallet for that survivor to reach and wait this 12 seconds like that.
Whats going on now?
5 seconds haste with endurance is QUITE enough for survivor to reach anything and start looping. I'm not even gonna say about 15 seconds...
I can't get first to this window or pallet anymore coz of haste. So it's a 100% chase at any scenario now, I have to chase him all the way again.
DS is still a joke as before no words for.
I tried to tunnel survivors in 3 games so far, it was not working, I was losing time badly because of trying to tunnel.
You think what you want, if you getting tunneled right now and think it's a problem, you might haven't even been tunneled before the update.
if you dont wanna argue... ok
can just repeat, if 5 seconds of haste is enough to reach a safe spot, then 12 seconds are surely enough. this is not a 7% speedboost, this is a 140% time boost. you know what killers do when survs start to bodyblock or sabo? change direction, and survs can do the same, then body block you too when moving properly. if you cant outplay the current basekit BT then I guess we dont have to argue
and the way you argue... I can do it the same. "Post update, if I try to tunnel a guy, then he is dead no matter what". pre patch survivors sometimes managed to survive several gens with old BT/DS combo and post patch havent found those yet
and I dont say DS is gonna stop him, I just say DS did a better job. btw Im talking from a killers POV, not a survivors ;)
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083337#Comment_3083337
Tunneling's exactly the same as it was before. I don't consider that a good thing, because I wanted the update to make survivors more resistant to it, but anything you could do with BT or DS is in Off the Record now. (For DS and BT, well... DS is worse now, but DS + OTR is better than old DS + old BT unless you get hit straight off the hook.) It's the exact same reliance on a meta perk to save survivors from tunneling, but the perk does a decent if imperfect job - if anything, I think OTR is a bit better for getting away from the killer than DS was. The only issue is that not every survivor has switched over to it yet, and half of them still have BT and are expecting everyone else to have BT.
The choice between a healthy survivor and an injured survivor with Endurance hasn't changed either. If anything, it used to be a guarantee that the injured survivor would not have Endurance if you waited 12s, but they probably still will now, so you could go after the healthy one now if they're closer because it's 2 hits either way. Or you go for the one that's closer to being dead, but that's the original problem with tunneling and how the dominant strategy is empirically unfun, and again the one they failed to address in a meaningful way.
And when it comes to endgame and how DS is disabled there... I never considered that tunneling. So I'm not seeing the explicit buff here.
Well, yes, agree with the first part of your text. tunneling IS unfun and should have been adressed. What I say is that doing the decision to tunneling has become easier to make, because both targets are equally hard to down. And tunneling, if successful, is still the most efficient play for a killer, as a 3v1 is a game changer the earlier it happens. and why should you go for a non-hooked survivor if both are equally hard to catch?
To DS, Im not talking about the endgame removal, with buff Im talking about the 3 second stun. this is basically worth a one time old-dead-hard in regards of distance you get, probably not even being sufficient to get to a safe area. a 5 second stun lets the survivor get away 20m (or maybe 15m if you consider the drop animation) which takes 25 seconds to catch up when running in a straight line
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083370#Comment_3083370
The variables used did not affect everyone evenly, nor include variables that were more important at times. Perks used to be only 2 per web no matter the level, so people who did the grind before that to any degree had variations between perks present and bloodwebs spent. old BBQ and WGLF making bp gains much higher quite consistently further offsets this. Basically the reduction has disproportionate value with how much progress was made previously, and some people didn't make out very well overall.
Im not sure if I can follow. So you say that the problem is how people got BP before the patch? I dont get how this affects the grind rework, for who has the grind become worse? can you give a number example? if we have a 75% reduction, then in exchange a perk that doubles BP (50% grind recudtion) is just worse
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@Omputin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083278#Comment_3083278
The problem on hand is they actually didn't reduce the grind like they promised. The grind currently is way worse than before.
how?
from my point of view, I got every teachable unlocked on tier 3. I dont have a constantly raising number of characters (59 at the momen) needing to unlock 18 perk tiers every DLC, instead I need to prestige 2 characters to P3 and am done (while these 2 characters start with every teachable in their inventory at level 1, being full perk once they reached like level 40 the first time).
regarding addon rarity they already said it will be adjusted, so you dont get kicked back to low rarity baby webs every 50 levels. regarding low level players I mentioned later how this might be a BIT more expensive in a specific situation, but also that is relative. so how exactly did the grind become worse?
you mean that prestige 100 is nearly not reachable to casual players? that one thing that has literally no effect on gameplay? or is it about prestiging every character to 9 instead of 3 max, just to get those fancy ugh perk charms? so yeah, regarding the collectible addiction, grind has become worse
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083337#Comment_3083337
Before the update:
"Oh he got unhooked is there a BT? No bt, does he have DS? No ds... Ez tunnel boy"
After the update:
"He got unhooked and gonna move with haste to this paller\window, I can't wait this 5 seconds, I have to hit him"
*hit the survivor*
"Now I need to chase him again"
I'm literally starting to have a BS with such comments as "Tunneling is easy now".
Dear survivor, please get real. Tunneling is much harder and unefficient to do now.
I dont see how any of your lines is valid.
before the update, how did you know if there is BT/DS or not? you had to eat it and then it is too late, you would rather say "damn, if I knew I wouldnt have tried to tunnel". also if you cant wait 5 seconds with a 7% haste, you wouldnt be able to wait with a 12 second BT either, so no difference in that point
and you totally ignore my point that with BT being basekit, it is literally an equal effort to chase the one or the other survivor. both need 2 hits, in what scenario it would be better to not go for the tunnel?
the only reason you could choose to not tunnel is the fear of DS and this got nerfed, this is a straight buff to tunneling. the only option to not go for the tunnel might be if you get the hit before the unhook, but even then you would probably go after the unhooked person right after you hooked the unhooker, if not even choosing to slug instead
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083278#Comment_3083278
the grind was not reduced for everyone, there are many outliers where the changes have varying results. Some people made out like bandits, others have more work and less tools to earn it with. The BP tax required for each prestige was introduced for literally zero reason, and incentives like this get touted as an offset to the "two steps forward but one forcibly taken back" approach they took to rebalancing the grind. At the end of the day, some people are either worse off or unaffected by any reduction the grind has seen, so they've been trying to rationalize the absolute mess of contradictions the system has had for them.
can you be more detailed on what you mean? I know that focussing on one character is now a bit more costy if you just want to unlock perks and have it on your main, because prestiging is more expensive than unlocking teachables at lv 40.
but talking about new players, you could also mention that those ppl had to buy a pay dlc to get the BP perk, unlock it and then grind to possibly level 100 before they occassionally find it in the bloodweb. this is not a thing anymore. you could say the same on leveling your main char only. yes, you might need level the other char to 51 instead of 40, but then you also get 3 perks for free, you dont have to find them.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083278#Comment_3083278
You restrict yourself to 3 perk slots by being forced to pick a BP perk
All BHVR did was make it so I only have 3 perks I want to run. I have an empty slot. I put Deadlock in there for now because it slows down matches for more XP with no input required from me. I won't run it once the Double Rift Fragment event is over, though, because I hate long matches. And I'm not seeing any great changeup in killer perks as survivor. No BBQ just means more gen slowdown, and I much preferred having killers run BBQ over gen perks.
This has nothing to do with the point I was talking about, but ok, a valid opinion
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I would say DH is definitely nerfed. It is correct that IF dead hard works, then it is better, because the killer doesnt just whiff and the survivor gains 4m, instead the killer wipes, while the survivor gets a 2 sec speed boost. BUT it is way harder to pull as you require almost perfect timing (hello dedicated servers) and as killer it became way easier to outplay. No value at windows and dropped pallets as you cant vault during the endurance effect, no distance anymore... so the better value when successful is not compensating the loss of situations where you successfully can trigger it.
@Kees_T said:
It's still strong, against Killers which have fast attacks like Nurse, Blight, Oni, Billy, Huntress, Trickster, Pig, Pyramid Head, etc.. it's easy to time against them and get a free speed boost to another safe area.
It removed the stupid part where the Killer and Survivor got into a stare match against who will lunge or dead hard first.
nah, this part is still there, especially once you know the survivor has it.
@Laluzi said:
Every useful survivor perk? Funny how the only thing that changed in my loadouts was Iron Will.
Unbreakable. CoH. We'll Make It. Sprint Burst. Adrenaline. Lucky Break. Borrowed Time. Also, the new Off the Record is incredible and I've been using it on every build.
Camping got slightly buffed, but tunneling didn't. I wanted survivors to have a better basekit mechanic to deal with those things than the bare minimum we got, but it's not the end of the world.
tunneling wasn't buffed? BT was kinda basekit before because nearly everyone ran it so this hasnt changed a lot. and since BT is kinda always there now (you dont know if you should wait 5 sec, 15 sec or 80... so just hit instantly) near an unhook you now have the option between a healthy survivor or an injured enduring survivor. same effort to down, so kinda obvious that you should go for the guy you can kill or put to dead on hook if you play it efficiently rather than fun and fair. this part makes the decision to tunnel easier. and regarding the DS nerf... I dont think we have to discuss. this is objectively making tunneling way easier and is an explicit buff to tunneling.
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@BringShaggytoDBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3079272#Comment_3079272
Appreciate the response. Seems a bit of a kick in the teeth to all players. There was no real reason to remove double BP from BBQ or WGLF, other than you wanted the grind to continue.
They literally said why they removed the BP bonus. Because perks should be picked in regard of their effect to the match, and not by the BP reward you get afterwards. And that makes totally sense. And this is not contradictory to "we want to reduce the grind" how many say. Also as said, they reduce the grind so there is not the need anymore to pick BP perks for being a BP perk. You restrict yourself to 3 perk slots by being forced to pick a BP perk, and to remove this need, they reduced the grind hard enough to not depend on the BP part of the perk
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@tester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083216#Comment_3083216
It's an entertainment product. Chases were entertaining and they are now shorter. Gens were not entertaining and they are now longer. A game is not a job and should not have increased parts that are not fun.
what would be your solution then? sounds so simple if I read your post. longer chases and shorter gens so everyone is happy? wait...
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It is always the unhappy people that will go to the forums or the reviews to shout out loud. It is pretty rarely the positive opinions that do the effort to spread their opinion, because why when everything is fine
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A bit odd guessed ^_^' , I also just checked ingame with a video. Botany + SC takes 30,5 seconds
(16 / 0,525)
Just for info because it happened occassionally in that game: Botany + SC inside a CoH takes 16 seconds. This does not work with the SC calculation so I guess Selfcare is replaced and actually a different action than healing with SC as the boon says 50% (old selfcare speed) and adding 50% by boon + 50% by Botany gives you the default speed, which is also actually strange because in that case the negative effect of CoH does not work as a multiplier like Selfcare does
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No, negative effects are multipliers, not adding up. So you could say the old combo also halfed the Botany speedboost, getting you to
(1 + 0,33) * 0,5 = 0,66
The new combo will be basically what old Selfcare was standalone with 52,5% speed, so it will take a tiny bit longer than 32 seconds:
(1 + 0,5) * 0,35 = 0,525
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@MikeyBoi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3073338#Comment_3073338
Compared to killers like Blight, Hillbilly and Oni that require skill… Straight Facts
Dude! Let's at least call it "alternative facts" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
"You shouldn’t be relaxed playing a killer" is straight forward an opinion my dude, haven't laughed like that for a long time
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@NightWolfsFury said:
The biggest issue I have is I was running into 3-4 gen slow perks pretty consistently, but BBQ was keeping it less than the entire build. Now that there's basically no incentive to run BBQ compared to before, I'm seeing A LOT more 4 perk gen protection build, which is INCREDIBLY boring and stale to go against, especially now that gens take even longer and perks like Thana actually got *buffed* from it. There's even less diversity than before, I think.
It's partially why I hate going against Huntress so much. 90% of huntresses run the EXACT SAME 6 PERKS (obviously 2 being interchanged with each other since 4 is cap per match. I mean you only ever really see them use 6 total perks). They're all exactly. The. Same. It's EXTREMELY boring.
which ones though? since especially pain resonance got nerfed by not giving info and dead mans switch synergy anymore. also Pop got nerfed by doing way less damage and without Pain Resonance info you don't know which gen is best to kick. If I see these more often, I wouldn't even be worried too much in a 4 stacked slowdown build
I actually noticed a lot of aura reading instead. like every thirg game is a lethal pursuer game, stacked with anything else, may it be either BBQ, floods of rage or any killer addons giving aura read
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072781#Comment_3072781
Then difference is miniscule, just do gens and can get out with 3 man.
The difference is not that miniscule. All you need is deadlock with gens taking 10 seconds longer by default. This is why camping is "buffed" with this patch, hook states could have been added 10 seconds as well to compensate for example.
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@Hawk81584 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072631#Comment_3072631
this is what they have been crying for years for! its like when a kid gets their way....and they are happy for a few days....but dont worry tomorrow they will be complaining that something else on the survivor side needs nerfing....i wish i could see the future when they are crying there arent any survivors left to play against!
it is so funny how just before the patch this was THE EXACT WORDING about how killers will be leaving the game letting the survivors end up in hours of queue time xD shall I say "now you know how the other side felt" or something? are you even getting insight on how you were citing the opponent side?
btw it is not the killers crying at the moment, there are a LOT of killer mains saying that camping and tunneling has become way easier asking for reverting DS at least. and that it is not incentive enough to have better chases, when tunneling/camping was made easier in the same run
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I just noticed the few games today that most killers commit on tunneling even harder than before the rework. Let's see how it is in the next few days. I also noticed as killer that tunneling is way easier, almost no DS and when u get it, there is almost no distance. Even less distance than after a BT hit.
I'm gonna try being more fair tomorrow and see how it goes xD
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Is there a reason why crouched piggy cant start chases? I mean, Sadako has chases while cloaked while Wraith has not and both can't attack while stealthed, GF also can chase while cloaked. Seems all a bit inconsistent and I dont see any reasoning behind it. I would just add that chase while crouched to Pig so it becomes at least harder to crouchkill someone
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@hailxsatanxeveryxday said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072415#Comment_3072415
Someone people in some thread (don't remember if it was here or Reddit) during the PTB were throwing out ridiculous numbers like that.
Wait, so Legion's new iri adds extra regression to gens already regressing? I did not know that. I have a ton of those. I'm gonna try it out.
Cool, that's what I wanted to know.
I might try to combine the two. It's not that bad if it starts at 175% regression and then works its way up to 300. It might be better than Eruption on that Doctor build.
At least it says it stacks with Ruin or they said it in the release notes. So I guess it stacks with all regressions. But the Legion addon only adds another 100% regression during Frenzy, so not sure how much it will regress actually.
Hope the bug is fixed where the addon cancelled the regression of kicked gens after getting out of Frenzy xD