DBDVulture
DBDVulture
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@Zokenay said:
Shes a killer that needs a proper rework, shes miserable to play and go against, specially against.
Hag already had a rework. The only thing she needs is base kit trap removal when crouching. It's not fair play that you need a light to remove her traps since she can bring Franklins.
@Wahara said:
Okay, so this is obviously going to be a hot take, but right now I truly believe that hag is one of the worst killers in the game. I've mained hag since I got dead by daylight about four years ago. It's my opinion that when her counter play is understood, she can be bullied by even uncoordinated teams. It only takes one person to harass her traps and make her functionally useless, flashlight or no flashlight. So, I'll try illustrate some points.
Instant teleport hits are wildly inconsistent: Survivors can approach the trap in such a way that doesn't get their camera pulled. There's been multiple times where I knew someone had already used their sprint burst and was coming back for an item, I was mashing the teleport button, and they still had too much distance for a hit. I've seen this happen to every premiere hag main. Michi, SpaceCoconut, etc. If the survivors know how to moonwalk to the very edge of the traps range they simply have zero catch value. And that's not even mentioning sprint burst and DH. DH isn't quite as bad as sprint burst but still hurts hag in particular because she needs the instant teleport hit, if she waits it out she loses precious distance. Sprint burst is self explanatory. You teleport, your trap is gone, and the survivor is long gone too.
Circle of healing nullifies hags entire playstyle: Hag is hit and run. She gets the team injured and starts picking people off. Circle of healing makes it to where they can just run to the side of the map where you dont have traps and heal, undoing all of the time you put in for the injures. There are ways to play around this, you can do cheeky things like pre-trapping totems which has gotten me a few cute grabs, but nothing consistent. Time is money with hag and it hurts her a lot juggling set up, gen patrol, and snuffing out totems. If there's more than one in play, you're probably #########.
To add to my point, in a competitive setting like DBD league and the like, hag has the most stage bans and restrictions for what survivors can bring. A team running all sprint burst and flash lights, hag doesn't even hook anyone. This limits her build variety so much to the point where you have to bring corrupt intervention and franklins to stand a chance against any talented team.
Also, people severely overestimate hags skill cap. A lot of people say she's just "really hard" and takes time, she plays 4d chess, whatever. She has some versatility and creativity, sure, you can place your traps in clever places but the basic concept with hag is not rocket science. You set up a killzone next to a cluster of defendable generators if possible, trap up pallets, vaults, loops, and pathways going in and out of that killzone. Good luck doing that the red forest, decimated borgo, garden of joy, etc. though.
So what do we do? The biggest complaint from everyone is that hag camps or places traps in front of the hook. I can't tell you how many matches I've played where I placed one trap under the hook, thought in my head "Okay, time to go away and set up elsewhere" and before I can even leave the entire team 9/11's into my first hook, dies, and sends me hate mail after. Naturally, we make it to where she can't place traps within 8 or 9 meters of a hook. But that greatly diminishes her snowball potential. What should she get in exchange?
Hag first became arguably top 3 after the round of buffs that reduced trap setting time. In my opinion, the 25% trap speed add on should be basekit. But in addition to actually being able to set up, she needs something to help her in chase. I think a lesser version of mint rag should be base kit. Allow her to teleport to any trap regardless of if it's tripped or not within 8 or 9 meters. This will allow her to not only cut people off but potentially zone people back into her web. Traps should also have a greater penalty for being tripped. It should be much riskier than it is now. Survivors that know what they're doing there is essentially no risk at all. With demogorgon, survivors had at least some price to pay insofar as being oblivious. Hag having some kind of haste status upon teleporting would be a great qaulity of life update.
Opinions?
Most people see hag as an "A" tier killer. She got brought down a bit when survivors got base kit BT because now she can't really tunnel. This was a good change against her because overall she was very cheap to play against.
Your gripes about survivors using smart tactics to counter traps is called : fair play. If there is nothing to counter taps then she's not fun/fair to play against.
-"Circle of healing nullifies hags entire playstyle"
CoH is a broken perk. It should either be self care speed or the killer should be able to break the bones when they kick a boon. If the killer broke the bones that means you could reuse the perk but would have to find new bones.
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Here's a crazy thought : the killer should have base 1:1 regression if 4 survivors are alive.
To give the killer 1/4th of one survivor's gen repair speed is laughable.
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350920#Comment_3350920
If they would make him stronger in chase, maybe Bubbas would play more normally than camping. For Bubba Mains acceleration change would be very nice. Acceleration now is very bad - it makes him much much weaker.
How much stronger in chase should you be?
Honestly I think they probably should adress the acceleration issue but make LF go down to 110% speed so that he uses his chainsaw aggressively.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350768#Comment_3350768
Like I say It's only some games and solely debends on how good start I have to get those hooks before finishing anyone off. It's very hard but if you succeed is much more rewarding than hard tunneling right at the start. I can do mini tunnel in these games hooking same survivor twice in a row but nothing wrong in that. If survivors are not rushing gens why should I tunnel?
I don't really know if mmr works properly sometimes I get insane looper teams, gen jockey teams or newbies. Sometimes I do get balanced matches as well. My brother who rarely plays killer seem to get always some good looper/gen jockey teams it's just weird.
You say middle mmr is fine so If gens would really be increased to 130s would it still be fine? Blight and nurse even spirit will have to be qutted. As those killers can do 8 hooking without killing anyone off in high mmr as well with current gens.
-"As those killers can do 8 hooking without killing anyone off in high mmr as well with current gens"
While that does happen it is a result of the survivors making multiple mistakes. Sometimes this happens because there are no voice coms. On average though you're not going to get that result with the current gen rush meta.
Truetalent had a game against a blight at high MMR the other day where the blight had like 3 hooks by the time the gens got done. Everyone knew what to do and the chases were too long b/c of DH and gen rushing.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350764#Comment_3350764
If you think that two people constitute a sufficient sample size for DbD then you don't understand statistics. Also, if you know of streamers that are better than Otz, Dowsey, Scott Jund and SpooksNJukez but are just as entertaining I'll take a look at them but those are currently the only streamers I watch.
Another possibility is that I'm just better at reading people and countering DH than you are and that's why we see different outcomes. It doesn't really matter though as when I say I don't notice an increase in survivability of DH over SB I can only speak to my own personal perception and guess from there as are you when you say that SB is 1/3 as effective as DH. That's not you pointing to data; that's just guessing and making up a figure with no data to support it. It's not facts.
The reality is that neither of us know if DH is fine or not since we don't have the data. The difference is that I'm saying I don't know and you're trying to state an opinion as fact when it's just an opinion.
-"If you think that two people constitute a sufficient sample size for DbD then you don't understand statistics."
Let's do some math. Two skilled plaeyrs with 8-9k hours playing 15-20 games per day. Let's say 30 games a day between the two of them over 30 days. After 90 days you have a sample size of 2,700. That's definitely an "ok" sample size for looking at high level play.
-"Another possibility is that I'm just better at reading people and countering DH than you are"
You're projecting. I could say : well maybe Im just better at telling when to let go of a generator so I never get hit with an eruption.
As an idea DH has a fundamental higher potential than both SB and Lithe in the same way that Nemesis has a higher potential than Trapper (and likewise Blight has over Nemesis).
-"The reality is that neither of us know if DH is fine or not"
Before 6.0 and After DH was being used way too often by the very best players. Ruin has been hard nerfed twice as a result.
For something like 4 years DS was in a really oppressive place where it could be weaponized by good players. Now it's on par with some of the other perks liek flip flop where if everything goes perfectly wrong for the killer then they might not get a hook. That's good balance.
DH needs to be risky and offer more reward than SB/Lithe or it needs to be a lot weaker in terms of game impact but stronger with a single use. Making it work once per game would potentially put it weaker in some ways/stronger in others when compared to SB/Lithe.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350805#Comment_3350805
Hmm, maybe... but in order for that to be value and not still worse off than without the perk, you'd need to give it some form of stealth so you aren't super loud. Because otherwise, playing injured with occasional Endurance to maybe give you a second health state some of the time depending on what killer and killer build you're facing is... a net negative, regardless of how much time you're saving on healing- which isn't even that much, considering how quick and reliable healing is right now.
And at that point, a perk that makes you Broken in exchange for some stealth buffs + a secondary effect is treading on No Mither's toes, and I don't know that that's a good thing.
With the changes to iron will you either run IW or an exhaustion perk. People said I was dumb for running IW for 5 years and caught on to how good it was in year 6 when everyone was doing it.
So while I appreciate good stealth play - that era is removed from DBD. Without the mist to block sight past 20m stealth is just dead.
DH without a nerf to remove the "third health state" is never going to fix the problem.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350790#Comment_3350790
Right, but... how is that meaningfully different from repairing generators while healthy and having two health states? That just brings you back up to default again, it doesn't actually provide any value. The only application I could maybe see is Resilience plays, but if you want that action speed, there are better ways of getting it.
As for how popular No Mither is... yeah. Proving my point. No Mither actually provides value for this tradeoff, and people don't use it. There would be literally no reason to bring a perk that just makes you Broken but you have a second health state some of the time if you're super on point with timing and the killer makes no effort to stop it.
-"how is that meaningfully different from repairing generators while healthy and having two health states? That just brings you back up to default again, it doesn't actually provide any value."
I am guessing you kind of missed the part where you can play hurt and not bother about healing. That's a lot of time saved. Also as you say it very clearly makes Resilience extremely easy to use.
If dead hard allows you to gain three health states when using it for any situation other than its first use then it is in a broken state. The legitimate problem with DH is that it can easily add +20 seconds in a chase because you have to hit someone three times. But sometimes it will allow you to loop for an extra 40 seconds.
That isn't fair in terms of what you get with any other exhaustion perk.
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@ays12151 said:
Hello!
Why Leatherface has very strange code in his Chainsaw Sweep movement speed?
Now Leatherface reaches Chainsaw Sweep maximum movement speed after 60% duration of his first charge.
This code exists since December 2020 | Twins DLC. They changed way how Leatherface reaches his Chainsaw Sweep maximum movement speed. They nerfed Leatherface very significantly and we didn't get a information about it.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LPA6G7EG92LX/image.png
What is a problem with his acceleration someone can ask.
With default Bubba first charge duration is 2 seconds. It means that he reaches Chainsaw Sweep maximum movement speed after 1.2 seconds.
Acceleration nerfs all duration addons on Leatherface.
1) Award Winning Chili - because of this code he needs 1.5 seconds to reach maximum speed.
2) Chili - because of this code he needs 1.35 seconds to reach maximum speed.
3) Because of that we got a very huge problem with his Ultra Rare addon - Carburetor Tunning Guide.
He needs 60% of his first charge to reach maximum movement speed, right? With Carburetor Tunning Guide Cannibal has 1 big charge. It means he needs 4.5 seconds to reach maximum movement speed
(7.5 seconds * 60%) = 4.5 seconds
It means Carburetor Tunning Guide doesn't work like intendent and this addon needs to be fixed or reworked.
Question is - how Leatherface's acceleration should work? How acceleration was working before Twins DLC?
I have screen from Wiki, how Leatherface should work and it would be very healthy for his addons.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CTWGGKZR6B2N/image.png
He was reaching maximum speed after 0.6 second always. No first charge duration or something.
It was really good, because Carburetor Tunning Guide wasn't bugged & Chili addons together were a good combination for Cannibal. Now with double Chili addons Bubba needs 1.65 seconds to reach maximum movement speed - it's garbage. He is so slow at the start.
Can we get old acceleration back on Cannibal? It would fix Carburetor Tunning Guide & make him much fun to play. If someone say that he is too strong and he deserved to this nerf - I completely dissagre with this.
It's very easy to counter his power. A lot of invisible Hitboxes on certain maps, lockers & windows & more & more.
What you think guys?
"What you think guys?"
I think you should be happy you have movement speed buffs on addons with no negatives.
Go have a look at Billy's addons for a point of reference.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350775#Comment_3350775
What would be the point of bringing Dead Hard in that scenario, though?
Like, you get to avoid one down, and then it does nothing. How is that meaningfully different from just making it single-use? What's the benefit of bringing Dead Hard, in this scenario? At least No Mither gives you free Iron Will and infinite Unbreakable.
"-What would be the point of bringing Dead Hard in that scenario, though?"
You could play hurt and still have two health states for every chase with a skillful DH. Also you will have three health states in the first chase. This would allow you to blast generators while hurt and potentially not be punished for it.
-"At least No Mither gives you free Iron Will and infinite Unbreakable."
But look how popular that perk is - some survivors will quit immediately on seeing a team member using it. No Mither is sitting on 0.41% usage.
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@WashYourHands said:
Pop Goes the Weasel, now Eruption... Two "killed" generator regression perks.
Jolt and Pain Resonance do x% of total repairs. Call of Brine and Overcharge are different in that they increase regression speed, and an added 5% regression of total repairs for Overcharge if failed a skill check.
Because of this, I expect Call of Brine, Overcharge, and Pain Resonance will be by far the dominant generator regression perks (and the ones who want a little extra regression will also equip Jolt) post 6.6.0.
Now if this suggestion is approved, this'll greatly boost Call of Brine and Overcharge's popularity, requiring a rebalance too.
Fundamentally, killers will move along the chain of un-nerfed perks, and I'm wondering where and when the developers will take action.
Nobody used pop after the 6.0 rework because it went to current repairs. Eruption will go exactly the same way when the patch hits.
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@jesterkind said:
The rework that Dead Hard received in the 6.1.0 update was certainly enough to ensure the perk is no longer absurdly overpowered or deeply unhealthy for the game, but that's not to say the perk is in the best spot it possibly could be. There are still some minor issues with it, and it's still clearly a lot more appealing than most other Exhaustion perks, and it's not necessarily hard to see why.
There is precisely one balance problem to fix with Dead Hard, and that's the way it's played around pallets. It doesn't take much skill or timing to force a killer into a partial lose/lose where they either swing into your Dead Hard, or they get pallet stunned- they may still get something out of that exchange either way, but I still consider it a problem, largely because it's just an obnoxious and stale way to use this otherwise well-designed perk. The way I would fix it is as follows:
For a period of [x] seconds after Dead Hard is used, whether it was successful or not, you cannot drop a pallet. Similar to Doctor's Pacified effect, I think that a use of Dead Hard should prevent you from interacting with pallets immediately afterwards, for long enough that the killer has plenty of time to secure the hit on you if you use it too early. This would force survivors to time their Dead Hard properly, and choose between getting a stun or using their Endurance, because they cannot use both at once. This would also encourage players to use Dead Hard out in the open, to bail themselves out of deadzones or just to buy a little more time- a place where the actual interaction with the perk is at its highest for both sides. I don't think this should be too long, just a couple seconds or so- maybe three at most?
In terms of pure balance, that's all Dead Hard really needs. There is a second thing to consider, though, and that's pickrate- Dead Hard is common! Not as common as it was pre-rework, but still the most-picked Exhaustion perk. I would argue the reason is simple: A lot of players prefer playing aggressively, and most of the Exhaustion perks are geared towards breaking a chase instead of staying in one with a potential third health state. This isn't inherently a problem, but DH is also quite good at breaking chase too if you want to use it that way, which in my opinion gives the perk just a little bit too much versatility, especially considering it's competing with perks that have less.
To fix this, I propose a simple change: Reduce the speed boost gained from a successful use of Dead Hard. Not remove it entirely, that'd make the perk worthless, but reduce it a little- similar to, but more impactful than, the Hindered you get from a Nemesis hit that imparts Infection without damaging. This would put Dead Hard more in its niche of being the aggressive, chase-oriented Exhaustion perk, while encouraging players who want the safety of breaking chase towards the other perks that are more geared towards it.
That's it. Minor tweaks, that's all the perk needs!
There is one very simple way to make DH reward good play and not allow three health states.
If you activate DH then you are broken for the rest of the game.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350228#Comment_3350228
I win still big part of my games without tunneling even with 90s gens. Im probably just average killer in skill level. But even some games I go for 6-8 hooks before finishing anyone off.
I do wonder do you want to win every game? I think that is unfair and 110s gens should almost do that already if you're good killer. What gen speed you would want 120s or 130s?
Tunneling would be even more viable actually that 5s ds for example in the end would be just small obstacle. So I think gens should go back to 80s once you finish one off. Makes keeping the game 4vs1 bit longer wort it.
-"gens should go back to 80s once you finish one off"
Should gens go to 130 seconds on large maps (120 on medium maps and 110 on small maps) if the survivors break the only three gen on the map? You can't favor one side over the other with changes.
-"some games I go for 6-8 hooks before finishing anyone off."
So you're playing in middle MMR where everything is "fine". All of the most skilled content creators sopped going for hooks . Why? If the survivors rush their objective then the killer is forced to do the same. The devs added base kit survivor tunneling protection but refused to add base kit generator tunneling protection.
Killers turn to tunneling because they can lose 2-3 gens in the first chase. Since kills are the "metric that matter" you can camp one player to stage two and then tunnel them to death. You can just face camp the second unique player you down and minimum tie every game. This makes for a very unfun experience for everyone.
Prevent both sides from being able to hyperblast their objective and the game will be more fun for everyone.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349827#Comment_3349827
First, Otz and TruTalent are way too small of a sample size to draw inferences.
Second of all you misread my other point. I see DH all the time. I don't see DH provide a significant survival advantage over SB. If I didn't see DH often then I wouldn't have needed to say maybe I'm just better at countering it (DH) now to explain why it could still provide a significant advantage but I don't see that advantage. I have no idea if your guesses are accurate but, on the Killers I don't farm with, I don't really see a large difference between the survivors I face and the survivors I see streamers face when I have the time to watch their videos
To be honest, I really doubt you face 5K to 10K hour tournament players most games and think that's an exaggeration. The softcap is too low for the top tier death squads every match. That's evidenced by how long the queue times were before the softcap.
I might be wrong and there might be enough 5K to 10K tournament players that are only at 1600 to 1800 MMR to be regularly encountered. I don't check profiles before matches since I don't care to so I have no idea how many hours the people I face have nor do I know the names of DbD tournament players as, for me personally, I feel that paying attention to tournament DbD would be a waste of time that I can put to better use. I do get 4 person TTV SWFs (which are more obvious since they have TTV in their names) fairly regularly if that means anything.
It sounds more like you have a personal agenda against DH. That's fine but it doesn't change the fact that any evidence out there for or against is entirely anecdotal and that there is no data available to the general playerbase to show if DH does provide an overly significant statistical survival advantage. That's an objective, not subjective, statement. BHVR hasn't released the data and they're the only ones that have it.
-"First, Otz and TruTalent are way too small of a sample size to draw inferences."
That's not true considering the volumes of games they normally play of killer every day over a 6+ hour stream. I say normally because TT is playing killer by sell out right now because he is fed up with the role atm.
-"It sounds more like you have a personal agenda against DH."
You need to watch some of the better streamers and see how little counterplay it leaves for Nurse/Blight/Huntress/etc. You need to see how much it punishes m1 killers when used well by a survivor.
Compare that to SB and you get usually 1/3 the advantage with SB that you do with DH against someone that knows what they are doing on both ends.
I play in a way that somewhat trivializes DH because it's not fun to play against. If I know you have it I will hit you immediately off the hook so you can't use it. I also tend to play with STBFL because DH is so ubiquitous.
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They said they won't do it but they might be forced to do it with the Texas Chainsaw game coming out this year.
That will be 3 killers vs 4 survivors and both sides can use voice coms.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350188#Comment_3350188
Killers where winning before even when gens were 80s and tunneling/camping were less viable. Those 110s gens would be too slow for nurse/blight probably already. Notice my word nerf them "bit". For example making ds back to 5s.
Blight and Nurse might be "winning" but the other killers are not. It's not fun to play the majority of the killer cast in DBD.
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@Heytherebigguy said:
Fix the maps, make more safe loops unsafe, give base kit BBQ, give anything.
Killers who usually tunnel - will tunnel. why? cause it's the easy way, if it's the most easy way to win. even having no pallets at all in the map - some killers will still tunnel someone to death, which will break the game since then with the nerfes maps and loops for survivors, 5 gen tunneling will be literally uncounterable.
The only way to fix tunneling is to make the survivor unhooked trade an health state with the unhooker.
Tunneling is not necessary on maps smaller than 9000m². Therefore I have to ask why do maps larger than that exist?
What is different on a small map? During chase you find people on gens naturally and can often partially interrupt people multiple times per game.
Only the fastest killers or teleporters can play large maps. You just dont have time to go to a generator and have the survivor pre-run early b/c their SWF team told them you dropped chase.
Tunneling can be ended very easily. You give the killer a reward better than removing someone form the game. For example : imagine if base kit the killer got a permanent 8% stacking penalty to gen speeds for each unique player hooked as long as no one has been removed from the game.
Or you give the killer the ability to kick completed generators. The generators are everything and all you need to do is make sure the important ones don't ever stay at 100% completion.
Or you give killers generator regression/blocking for each hook. Imagine for example if hooking a survivor made the gen with the most progress regress as if the killer had kicked it and prevented any survivor from working that generator until the hooked player had been rescued. Obviously this would only work if the killer is 16m away from the hook (starts immediately with a grace period to leave the hook zone) and would only work for one generator/hooked survivor not multiple.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349980#Comment_3349980
Yeah probably still at low/mid mmr, I wonder how many 3k-4k take to get to high MMR. Though I did suffer few loses, where the survivors were extremely effective at gens. Still the killer stress is nothing compared to horrible experience that SOLOQ was.
Also forget to mention but I never play at night or late evenings, so that might be another reason that rarely encounter strong SWF.
-"Still the killer stress is nothing compared to horrible experience that SOLOQ was"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFeExtTr_eUThis game sums up very well how much more stressed the killer is than the survivor at high rank play. True is a killer main but look how unstressed he is playing survivor. Look at how stressed the #1 twins main is during this match.
The hud changes make solo queue play far too simple.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349955#Comment_3349955
Do you want survivors to unhook right after hooking while killer turns his back? Weird that is my usual reason to tunnel because that immediatelly reset the pressure I caused by that hook.
Ofcourse teleportation would not happen immediatelly if survivors leave other survivor too long in hook. So last second saves you could still prevent. Anyway I have suggested gens should be increased to 100-110s if camping and tunneling gets nerfed bit.
-"Anyway I have suggested gens should be increased to 100-110s if camping and tunneling gets nerfed bit."
That's not enough. You cannot touch killer tunneling unless you also curb survivor generator tunneling. Deadlock should become base kit with rollback prevention so that if two gens finish at the exact same time then one is rolled back incomplete and deadlocked. We have hit rollbacks at pallets so this should get the same treatment.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349958#Comment_3349958
For me killer is relaxing, survivor is extremely stressfull thats why i never play Survivor again
That means you are a low MMR killer or you're chilling in mid MMR with a strong killer like Blight/Nurse. Either way you're clubbing seals.
@Zokenay said:
Maps are god awful (and they didnt even bother to fix Red Forest, only made it prettier), our perks for gen regression keep getting nerfed into uselessness, survivors get to keep BNPs and their gen rush perks (even getting new ones...) as well as the Commodious Toolbox, on top of Green Medkits, Dead Hard is still obnoxious, etc.
Its just stressful, specially after the Solo Q buff, which while needed, it made playing killer considerably harder, since the solo teams became more competent cause of it.
Doesnt help that the new killer looks like an utter failure in nearly all aspects... from design, to lore, to power, to her mori and even her perks.
If i dont bring like 2 or even 3 gen perks, i often ended up losing multiple gens in a row, and depending on the killer i might lose them before i even get one or two hooks.
And people wonder why tunneling became so prevalent now, its cause its mandatory against any competent team to get a decent chance of winning.
Idk, thats just how it feels now.
Killer has been in a mostly unfun state since forever.
Gens have always been too fast relative to chase times.
Even the 6.0 patch was one step forward and two steps back because survivors got a free base kit perk. The best killer gen regressions were nerfed and even Eruption is getting neutered to be worse than pop. Meanwhile DH remains untouched.
There is no wonder the killer incentive is almost always sitting around 100% except during mornings when survivor mains attempt to play killer b/c their SWF is offline.
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@mr_Beast_Artist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324779#Comment_3324779
Then you need to give another task to the survivors and make sure that the survivor on the hook is not attractive to the killer.
There is a crazy idea with ghosts, but it will definitely reduce toxicity (if anyone has played "Phasmophobia", then it is there, God, even in "Among Us")
When a survivor dies, he turns into a spirit and can repair generators, respectively, the killer cannot do anything to him, or after the blow, the ghost disappears and appears in another place. What is the point? The fact is that normal survivors repair generators more slowly, but as a ghost they repair generators 2-3 times faster. It is not profitable for the killer to kill immediately, but to make all the survivors hang on the hook 1-2 times before dying.
-"and make sure that the survivor on the hook is not attractive to the killer."
Hooking someone for the first time needs to be more attractive than hooking the same survivor a second time. You are coming around to the conclusion I've been saying for some time now.
The killer needs to be rewarded for every hook. In order for the reward to be relevant it needs to slow down the survivor objective all on its own. As an example : it should either halt the generator with the most progress for 15 seconds OR regress that generator by 15% base kit.
That's right - I'm suggesting every hook should reduce one generator by at least 15% progress.
@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321969#Comment_3321969
I think they should make that hook teleports to another location like pyramid cages if killer stays close proximity but this would disable in endgame and would not work for basement. Also hook grabs should be make more difficult and survivor sided so killer with mc donald's internet can't abuse them to their advantage.
That type of radical idea will just make people play two killers and practically nothing else.
The idea of punishing the killer for doing something survivors don't like will not work. The killer needs to be rewarded for doing something that helps keep the game healthy.
Also you CANNOT punish killers who tunnel without addressing survivors who rush gens before making a rescue. Most of the time when I hard camp someone the only time they could be easily rescued is about 5 seconds after the hook when I usually break a nearby pallet or kick a generator. But everyone is too busy thinking about generators before friends.
The only way to punish gens before friends is by hook camping+tunneling.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3348181#Comment_3348181
But we don't know that since we don't have the data. From a purely subjective viewpoint I don't see a large difference in survival between DH users and SB or Lithe users when playing Killer. I don't use DH as a survivor because I suck at it but, pre 6.1, I would use it at Iri grades to help pip up and I did notice a huge difference in survival rates. It was definitely a crutch and OP then.
Now using DH over SB hurts my survival rates when playing Survivor. It might be much better but I don't see it in my matches as Killer. Maybe I'm just better at countering it now since I have a few more months of experience I didn't have then
The team idea is interesting but it's too small of a sample size to really draw any inferences. Realistically the playerbase does not have enough data to draw a clear inference one way or another.
-"Realistically the playerbase does not have enough data to draw a clear inference one way or another."
We most certainly do. We can take games From Otz and Truetalent and look at how well they do in a chase - not escape rates. I can tell you without a doubt DH gives more time than SB and Lithe in a chase when you look at very good players using both perks. DH gives a better outcome in at least 7/10 chases. Against certain killers like Blight, Nurse and Huntress where the attack window for DH is extremely simple - DH does massively better.
-"Now using DH over SB hurts my survival rates when playing Survivor. It might be much better but I don't see it in my matches as Killer."
Not trying to draw shade but lets consider that the best players tend to use DH way more often. If you're not seeing many people use DH then you're probably not at the top of the food chain for killer. I am guessing you are not regularly playing against 5,000-10000 hour players. I am guessing you are not usually seeing people who are part of DBD tournament play in your matches.
I can say that I play against all of the above with regular frequency.
In my matches I see people use SB and while it can be helpful it can't extend a chase like DH can. The same goes for Lithe. The most time/distance you can get with SB/Lithe in the optimal situation is how long it takes for me to catch up. The best case scenario for DH is that you can avoid a down and run to a pallet then run to 3-4 more pallet which you instantly throw.
I recently had such a game vs 2 tournament players on crow map. And while I still won the game - it was DH that let one player throw about 5 pallets in one chase while on death hook. She made the chase go long but she didn't give them enough time to finish the last generator. To their credit they had at least three times in the match where one generator was at 95% or more and it was reset to at least 50% progress or lower (no I wasnt using eruption).
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@TheSubstitute said:
I'm pretty much neutral about it. It's not fun for Killers but there are things that Killers can do that are far more fun than DH (eg cross map shots on Artist and Huntress) but probably aren't that much fun to the survivor who gets dropped out of the blue. If everything that was fun for one side but annoying for the other got blocked there wouldn't be a game.
The true test, in my opinion, is if DH users survive significantly more than people using SB and Lithe. If DH users do then DH needs a nerf. If they don't then it's annoying to watch DH be used at a pallet but you wouldn't have gotten to the pallet that quickly anyway if SB or Lithe were used so I keep that in mind.
"The true test, in my opinion, is if DH users survive significantly more than people using SB and Lithe"
We already know that to be the case. Have someone play a killer and pick the perks to use vs two teams. The first team can have DH and the second team can have SB/Lithe/Overcome.
We already know that DH overall gives that team more time in chase against the majority of killers. How much time? It's at least twice as good compared to the other exhaustion perks.
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@Brokenbones said:
Heyo, I wanted to make a thread on this topic because after the Eruption fiasco the Dead Hard discourse has already begun to flare up again.
As somebody who's not really cared too much for new DH since it's rework, I wanted to try to come to an understanding about what issues people have with the new version and what bothers them the most about it.
For me personally - The only issues I've encountered with new DH while playing Killer are:
- Sometimes playing pallets is a lose/lose if the survivor has good timing
- The 'wait game' has only gotten worse compared to how it was pre-rework. I still think New DH is weaker than old DH but the fact that the perk is still pretty rewarding when it goes off leads to a lot of waiting.
- This also means that even if a survivor doesn't have it, they can pretend like they do to waste a bit more of the Killers time in chase. If you play survivor but don't use DH, try it - do the thing where you turn toward the killer when they are within lunge range and see how many times they actually wait.
That's it for me, what are your problems?
The biggest problem with Dead Hard is that it gives you a third health state.
DH would be fine for example if it penalized you for healing and encouraged you to play hurt the rest of the game after you had become injured. But then most people who are using it now would turn their nose because that's exactly what they want. A third health state lets you have a 60-90 second chase vs some killers instead of a 40-60 second chase.
What kind of Nerf should DH get? Make all healing actions take twice as long (except for mending which will now take 50% longer). Prevent any kind of funky math with sloppy or any addons so you get some benefit for stacking but not crazy amounts.
The easiest way and most fair way to nerf DH would be to make it give you the "broken" state for the rest of the game as soon as you use it. This would make it make perfect sense to use AND have synergy with the perk no mither.
The best counter to Dead Hard is hard tunneling+ STBFL. If I know someone has DH then I always hit them immediately as they get off the hook to take it away from them. If you time this perfectly because you were proxy camping there is no counter to this action. This sucks as an idea because the best counter to one of the strongest perks requires you to proxy/face camp AND hard tunnel them.
STBFL is one of the best perks in the game right now at high MMR because so many people use DH. You can punch one person three times rapidly; not only will you not care you will benefit from punching them three times. Granted if you are using this perk on a killer who can't maintain stacks then that is a problem.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340213#Comment_3340213
As a developer who owns part of a software company, I totally agree with the sentiment of rewriting old code to pay down technical debt. This is something I push for when possible.
But the cold reality is that doing this doesn't make money. It can save money in the long run, but there has to be a really compelling reason and if you can't make the case as a business owner then it won't happen.
DBD is bleeding players because of many issues - one of which is the cheating.
They had 60k average players at one point and it's back to 30k. This is years of progress lost. That's a reason to rewrite the whole game.
There's a video where Choy Talks to the hackers and explains in part where the hackers are taking a huge cut of DBD's funds by undercutting DLC.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342628#Comment_3342628
Nah I’m really not. 😂 I’ll just use bump logic exclusively and still stomp teams. It would literally change nothing but make my gameplay more simple and lethal. The fact you think that lets me know you’re part of the vast majority of players that have no clue how blight works or even the slightest clue how to go against him.
Again.. I have no issues with DH. It’s the difference of being patient and waiting an extra second, or just baiting and using another rush. Ez.
There is no need to be hostile.
I've watched the very best blights and having hug tech or any of about 3 different techs available gives you options.. I know most people don't remember but once upon a time Billy had some interesting tech. Of course he had the saw sprint tech but he could also clip through a wall on suffocation pit and jump on top of the combines on corn maps.
People are playing against you a certain way because they know Blight can use hug tech. There was a time where nobody ever touched a combine against billy. There was a time when the actual infinite loop on suffocation pit was nullified by billy clipping through a wall.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342302#Comment_3342302
I can’t relate to any of that. That type of stuff doesn’t happen to me lol. A good player isn’t going to get value out of DH if they are facing a good killer. Survivors rarely get value out of me.
I assume by your name alone that you are a blight main. When Hug tech gets removed you will likely cry.
The funny thing is that the DH rework made it extremely easy for DH users to time their ability so you can't hit them when using their power because your window to attack with your power is extremely predictable with DH. You can choose not to swing as the "best" option and then that leaves the door open for them to condition you to not use DH the first time.
Truetalent has been doing this against Blights on his stream now that killer is in such a garbage state.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342299#Comment_3342299
TCM has 3 killers I hope it forces 2 killer mode on dbd.
I feel overall TCM could be garbage and it would make DBD killers want to play it. Why? Because you can play that mode with a friend. Now if DBD stays in a sorry state for the next 6 months where nobody wants to play killer then it will just Bleed players as nobody plays the already more rare role. Before 6.1 we had regular instances where there were ~50 killers in queue for some regions with 4500 survivors in queue.
If they want to Buff killers to current survivor levels - I am expecting things like all killers without a movement power will now be 120% base speed.
I suggested years ago the developers make a killer that requires two people to play it with a sort of Tag Team power. Imagine for example if Twins were only playable by two people. If She is active then victor cant attack. But he can grab on to you and make generator checks be constant : merciless storm. If you are running he snares you as if you are constantly in Clown Gas.
Every Twins game would be played against two killers on voice coms. Now I am not suggesting we rework the twins like this but rather a killer that takes two people to play could have been introduced.
Lots and lots of people wanted 2 vs 8 but the developers decided instead to make the game "pretty". And then they realized they needed to remove the fog for consoles. At that point the game lost any hope of stealth being part of the game.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342535#Comment_3342535
because m2 killers can’t m1?
The other problem with Jolt is that it destroys any possible synergy with kick perks.
If Killer perks were designed like survivor perks - getting a Jolt would apply Overcharge to any affected generator.
Imagine if Survivor perks were designed like killer perks. Stake out would not affect Hyperfocus. Any generator speed repair perk such as Prove Thyself, Potential Energy, Hyperfocus, etc. would not stack the repair speed because killers would find that oppressive. It would only take the most bonus and then cap it in some way. Added 20% progress From PE - ok you cant use any stacks from Fast Track or use a BNP.
Try using Jolt now on a nurse. It's literally a dead perk.
The best generator protection in DBD is tunneling out the first person you down. This was necessary before the hud changes and before Eruption got neutered.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342211#Comment_3342211
“the best players get use out of it”
I think it’s fair if the best players are able to use it well. By your logic, it’s like saying we need to need trapper because somebody plays them well.
A 99’d SB will get you the same extension that a DH will.
-"A 99’d SB will get you the same extension that a DH will."
I'm sure you think that's true. A good player using Dead Hard can sometimes make a chase 30 seconds longer. A good team that throws in a few body blocks can make that 30 seconds into 60 seconds. The survivors can win if one person is on gens and everyone else cycles in/out to interfere with chase. Obviously during the first chase they blast 2-3 gens. You can see this happen daily on Truetalent's stream where he plays survivor as he is fed up playing killer (but will still play it if you pay him to do so using your build request).
Your argument about the trapper is a strawman. Nobody is going to say : The Entity's left hand is such a good Trapper player that he could probably do better than an "average" blight.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
So Eruption is dead, Ruin is extinct, Dead Man's Switch is gone, Thanatophobia is destroyed and Pop Goes the Weasel has been burned to ash. To be honest, the one I miss the most is Pop Goes the Weasel and the thing is, out of these perks, it was the least complained about.
Seriously, back in the day, there weren't many survivors who would whine about Pop Goes the Weasel. I get it that the devs thought it was reasonable to nerf it because they thought it might be overwhelming because of the extra 10 seconds to generators, but it's pretty clear that those extra seconds didn't make much of a difference.
That's why I want to revert the Pop Goes the Weasel nerf. It was really my favorite perk for a long time and to see the state it is in is just depressing. Hell, you don't even need to change it back to 25% of total progression, just make it 20% of total progression instead of the current progression to make it at least usable.
The solution very obviously is to stop playing Killer. I'm hoping the TCM game is a smashing success so that DBD has to bend the knee and make playing killer fun/fair.
The level of nerf Eruption is getting would be about as if DH were to be changed to a "once per game" perk.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341777#Comment_3341777
They already nerfed many of survivors meta perks in the last perk rework, including DH.
DH was nerfed and buffed at the same time. It is harder to use but the best players actually get more out of it now. People who were good would use DH for distance and it had no counter.
That version of DH and the current version of DH make chases last much longer than all of the other exhaustion perks. That needs to stop.
DH needs to lose the "3rd health state". It needs to give no more/less than Sprint burst does in a chase.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
Listen, I literally never used this perk, but Ive faced it A LOT on SoloQ, and I think I have the right to speak on this. Eruption being "strong" was never really an issue directly, but moreso that it was punishing to SoloQ players and not at all effective to those in SWFs.
The perk itself was a highlight of perk design that BHVR needs to avoid, since it would only widen the gap between SWF and SoloQ. But there were many ways of nerfing/changing this perk that would not directly gut the perk.
All BHVR really had to do was removing the screaming effect, have it instantly block all generators it is affecting for 15 seconds (remove the Incapacitated), and it would have been perfectly fine. It would not longer destroy SoloQ lobbies, but still have use against SWFs.
However, the approach BHVR went for nerfing the perk, in my opinion, just really was not the direction the perk should have gone.
The perk was good before. It needed a change to just make kicked generators be unable to be touched for 30-45 seconds.
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The survivors in the past have been able to be "stuck" in the held animation after being hooked under 1/10,000 XYZ event.
This looks like someone cheating however.
Tell tale giveaways of cheating are people doing things you cannot trigger normally even if you wanted to. An example is when a survivor screams as if shocked by the Doctor.
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@LuthirFontaine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340215#Comment_3340215
Why nerf all swf, my brothers and I play some nights we are not pros. Just cause you group up doesn't make anyone good
SWF is literally the most powerful force in the game. If you took any top tier tournament and let one team use voice coms and denied it to all the rest then the team with voice coms would win.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340110#Comment_3340110
I would love to see official stats for kill/escape rates on both maps. I am pretty sure you will be surprised how even the game in fact is and how killer sided RPD is overall (but sure, there are killers that will have problem on it)
The last patch made it so west rpd almost never had more than 1 gen in the main room. I think the devs saw that and said : this map needs 2 gens in the main room like east.
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340215#Comment_3340215
The devs have stated multiple times they will not balance survivor/sef differently. Because why would they, its the same character, but different mindsets and extrrnal tools.
So step two is utter fantasy as survivors are currently being buffed because ("survivor + stuff devs have no control") > "survivor", and nurse was just nerfed. Meaning Your step is only applied to one team.
Your step three sadly reminds me of Deathgardens brilliant idea to remove the bloodpost and use a lifepool for the scavengers, resulting in them ignoring kills and rushing their objective even more. (Imo one of the bigger balance fails that ended the game)
-"The devs have stated multiple times they will not balance survivor/sef differently. Because why would they, its the same character"
Did you ever see the video of M. Cote playing in Korea? One of the people on the panel said to him: if you were better at the game then DBD would have better balance. I was implying that there has never been anyone on the dev team who could play both killer and survivor at high MMR and play extremely well.
I am not saying Dwight needs to have a different MMR than Meg.
The best person they ever had on the team that I had spoken to was Horvath (who designed the nurse). He was decent at playing killer but not top notch. Mclean was a step under that - from looking at his live stream. Most of the development team from what I gather plays a step below that (including M. Cote - if you ever watched him play trapper in 2016-18 when he used to stream). If for example you ever watch Almo you will not be blown away by constant 4k's against 5k hour survivors.
This is not a "bash the developer" post. You can verify for yourself how well the team plays when you watch them stream. You will notice a massive difference in effectiveness when compared to "professional" streamers.
@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340215#Comment_3340215
You can't nerf SWF though. The main strength of SWF is they can use Discord/etc to communicate, which BHVR has no control over. Giving gen speed debuffs to people playing in a group is also a bad idea because it punishes people who play in a SWF and don't use communication, not to mention it dissuades SWFs from playing in general, which is a large portion of the playerbase.
All they can do is try and buff Solo queue to a closer level to SWF (there will always be a big gap though), and buff certain killers accordingly.
Nurse does need another nerf though, as does Blight addons.
Absolutely you can nerf SWF.
Allow no character/perk/item/offering resets. This would 100% stop bully squads. Lock character changes other than costume while in queue. Add hud feature to see perks of team members while in a SWF lobby.
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Step one: we need a highly skilled killer & survivor player on the dev team.
Step two : the devs need to be willing to nerf the best things in the game such as SWF Nurse and Blight.
Step three : DBD needs innovative ideas to reforge the current meta so that tunneling gens/survivors is not how every game plays out.
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@JPLongstreet said:
To your point about video proof being required, unfortunately it is on us because they cannot add a replay system into their shaky coding. They would have had to do so in the original release it's much too late now. It was made "slightly" easier not needing Steam ID's, but yeah I doubt anyone is a fan of their reporting system.
Maybe in DBD2 should that ever happen.
DBD makes a lot of money.
You would have thought the management would have said hey let's do a system reboot of DBD with fresh code rewrites of everything. You get a built in replay system that shows the speeds during the replay of everyone doing everything. It would eliminate cheating instantly other than things like wallhack aura vision. And then we can use behavior visual analysis to flag people who are likely cheaters using wall vision.
If the devs were really clever they could have the game come out in chunks. They could have the "oldschool" block that just has every killer from the first year. You get the original maps and those killers all fixed and updated with current mechanics. In a sense this would be like some kind of "DBD throwback". Unlike the 2016 launch of the game we would have stopguards for cheese such as fast/slow/medium vaults and entity window blocking.
It would take a lot of effort but it would keep people wanting to play the game to know that a new horizon was coming for DBD.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3333439#Comment_3333439
OP knows that they are losing a lot of games, so it must be the games fault. And the Devs have to fix this.
@Topic:
Even with the Icons, Solo is not on SWF-Level. Since information is still not the strong part of SWF.
Let's remove the OP from the equation.
What do Otz, CMWinter and Trutalent all have in comon when they play killer?
They start the game with the intention of tunneling. That's your canary in the coal mine that the game is absolutely out of proportion.
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@HardhatKrugerer said:
I really amaze me how people want to nerf that or that but how about adressing more important things what are even wrose problem than OP perks? But for not being that "guy" who derailed thread than I agree. Mostly. But if you´re not good at looping Windows of Oportunity. For me its ok from both points of view. Its still nothing so gamebreaking to be considered as something OP. If you can use it´s max potential it made you really really good and annoying, but even then its nor 100% escape from any chase. When I started to play with Windows of Oportunity I had to used to it. From all perks it seems like the best ballance between amount of info and handhalding.
Windows facilitates the ability of one survivor to drop 4-6 pallets in a chase. That's not right. After about two pallets the killer should get a hit.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339490#Comment_3339490
it's you who is complaining about maps. I just made a response. RPD's are killer sided even without 3gen. That 3gen is just insult to injury and devs made the map even worse. Also a lot of pallets means nothing if the map does not have any other resources. This is most visible in the game. Even Otz considers it killer sided (check his map tier list).
Also I would take abbatoir every day when that would mean deletion of rotten fields (yes map you consider strongly survivor sided).
Also we both agree on knight's map (I already mentioned borgo) is just terrible. I wonder who actually likes the map?
"-RPD's are killer sided even without 3gen. Also a lot of pallets means nothing if the map does not have any other resources.
" Even Otz considers it killer sided (check his map tier list)."
Otz is a very smart/good player but everything he says is not automatically true. Plague is not fun on RPD if nobody cleanses and they loop the pallets well. It's very easy to blast gens and finish the map quickly. You have enough pallets so that she can't really ever apply much pressure.
RPD is maybe Nemesis, Nurse, Blight and Pyramid Head sided. That's nothing different than The Game map. Pig sucks on both maps and it's not fair to say that those maps are favorable to her. That's just not a true statement.
Rotten field would be a lot more interesting if it were a 9000m² map.
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@mr_Beast_Artist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3334517#Comment_3334517
I talked about the "Overcome" perk, in addition to fatigue, you still need to heal. And if the killer has a noed or some other one-hit perk, then the "Overcome" perk does not work at all. Compare it to other fatigue perks and tell me if it's useful? It only gives +2 seconds when other perks give 3-4 seconds of haste.
Definitely the "Overcome" perk needs a buff
Overcome is better than sprint burst , BL or Lithe and worse in others. That makes it just about perfect.
To make Overcome shine you have to heal yourself quickly several times per game and take hits for allies in chase. This lends to a different style of play but it can be much stronger for team play than say just having sprint burst - which largely speaking never makes the killer miss because we all know what a walking survivor means.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339179#Comment_3339179
I'm not sure about making it less confusing, due to the mechanic of the cages moving if PH's location is too close etc, I think it will be more confusing and better defined as cages and that they're a separate mechanic to hooks.
Having explained the game details to multiple people I can assure you that if any rescue from a hook or cage counted as an unhook then it would make the game more simple.
And it would be more fair to both sides.
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@Drift_Wiz said:
Revert it to pre-buff and that should be enough. There are three reasons to use this perk
- Beginner players
- Spawns, what has and has not been used
- Brainless W keying
Of course the third reason was never intended to be a strong benefit of the perk and reverting it would help mitigate a good amount of that particular reason. People that truly use the perk every match for at least one of the other two reasons would not be affected by the perk being reverted.
Some of the very best loopers use the perk too. You need to add that to your list.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339190#Comment_3339190
Why? Simple. Because horrible killers that can't catch anyone can decide to delete any progress survivors do. And I mean completely delete it. So if they can't catch anyone and nobody can progress gens, then the game continues until one side looses temper and gives up or game shuts down. There are 0 other reasons.
This is also the reason why I wish knight was deleted from the game. He is not super strong. He is not even super weak now. He is just super predictable and probably going to hold you in game for 30+ minutes.
Also from my perspective as survivor main. Please delete both RPDs. The maps are very killer sided even considering large number of pallets (exceptions exists - poor huntress) + considering the new main - pure and utter disgust whenever I notice it's this map, delete Borgo even if it has many pallets - the map always feels awful to play. Delete lery's as it's super killer sided yet again (even if it contains good number of pallets). And while we are at it - delete midwitch even if it has like 24 pallets. The map was never ever ever even remotely good for survivors. This about sums up my experience with (some) maps that have many pallets. And I think there's no redeeming them. I don't want remake. I want delete button
-"Also from my perspective as survivor main. Please delete both RPDs. The maps are very killer sided"
Delete all the farm maps except abattoir, Badham, Garden of Joy, Ormand and the knight's map for a start. Every single map on that list is massively survivor sided.
And we could only allow Nurse, Blight, Pyramid head, Nemesis to go to a map like The Game. Wouldn't that be fun?
There should be zero maps in the game that are 3 gen or gtfo. Every map that needs to be played like that needs a complete rework that will make the map smaller or make the loops way less safe.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339161#Comment_3339161
There is no source of Endurance that triggers while Healthy. If you gain Rage and still go for an Injured Survivor that's on you (but this also brings to question how Rage should trigger in DBD). If Survivors stop healing because they know Rage is coming up, that's effectively a Healing deterrent that doesn't hard limit survivor agency. If Rage isn't lost on hitting Endurance that means body-blocking with Endurance following with a body-block by the uninjured Survivor won't be a thing (or multiple strings of Endurance body-blocks).
VHS needs the chip damage on every hit because otherwise Teens could regroup after the on-hit grace period and simply rotate defense of the Injured Teen until the Monster literally has to Injure all Teens to be able to get the first down given that Teens are given combative capabilities as part of their Objective in that game.
In DBD it's defensive and the Killer is designed around being unstoppable, so Survivors can't hold ground at all, it's a question of if they can hold out long enough to power the escape route.
-"If you gain Rage and still go for an Injured Survivor that's on you"
Not to go around in circles but again this would make the effect pointless. The only state that should ignore enraged should be borrowed time from a hook.
Another way to achieve a similar result could be done with damage having a lasting effect. Imagine for example if every damaging swing made your next heal take 25% longer.
This would also punish dead hard users more than those were not using it as they would have 150% longer heals on the 6th hit. Someone who had been downed twice without dead hard would only be at 100% longer heals.
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339161#Comment_3339161
um yeah? that is because they've balance off soloq which plays survivor really poorly. that is not say that you can't win with random teams playing survivor but its definitely harder especially consider that your at very -1 perk slot on information. dead hard is like essential to every survivor build(or use another exhaustion but a lot of exhaustion are not that good and very conditional in effectiveness) and then you have to deal with teammate have trouble healing so you end up bring COH which killer complain about 24/7 which is funny. The purpose is so your teammate are not playing no mither the entire game for taking 1 hit. You get 1 free perk slot to use whatever you want. If killer are not complaining about COH, then they're complaining med-kits.
Almost every killer in the C block is going to struggle on the majority of survivor sided maps even with "the best possible loadout".
That is because a lot of D-tier to C-block killers have really bad balance on their base statistic for their power so of course they won't do well.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PNT1WMJDU5GQ/image.png
Like looking trapper who otz rate as worst. what issues does trapper have that make very bad to play? It takes longer to setup traps then it does for survivor to disable them. the power setting time takes too long making it almost useless in chase. relies on 3 gen-lock down. What is bad about sadako that makes D-tier according otz list? Bad stealth, has lullaby for w/e reason. Mori takes forever to activate even with condemn add-on's. Long TV cooldowns at base-kit. terrible invisibility in chase. If you believe dev kill statistic, Sadako is 65% kill-rate, #1 killer in the game /shrug. What about myer's? Why is he here? Takes long time to get out of t1 without stalking add-on, irrelevant ev2 bonuses, can be looped as m1 killer in tier 3 if survivor is good at pallet looping. Relies on instant kills to be relevant which is not ideal for killer. Freddy just needs revert pre-nerf. everything that is bad about freddy is bad because it got nerfed(add-on, walking m/s for setting snares, pointless dream world etc.). Freddy is the revert zone. The list goes on. One thing I have to say is just because a character is A-tier does not mean that character cannot be better. In some cases, even A-tier characters could use QOL to their gameplay. Of course its less major then what D-tier char would get improvement but QOL can still help.
So when your saying "Nurse & blight will outperform D-tier killers". Well yeah of course it outperforms D-tier killers. those D-tier are bad. that is why they are D-tier..... Killer micro plays matter a lot and their base-kit a lot as well.
There should not be an ocean of difference between the bottom killers and the best killers. You completely missed the point. The difference between the best and worst should be 10-15% at most.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339175#Comment_3339175
You already have 1 hour games until server shuts down. That clearly indicates REGRESSION PERKS are overtuned. And many killers can hold the game way longer then is healthy. This 100% needs fix.
On the other hand - sure. Survivor games should not last 5 minutes of genrush too (but keep in mind camping bubba case, survivors should still be able to 3-man out against afk camping bubba, or saves should become possible - don't forget huntress/trickster/pinky finger clown if your fix changes just killer).
I already said, that correct solution would be to nerf all regression perks and buff base regression (so stacking multiple regressions will overall loose power, but 0-1 regressions will feel better).
Why do we have one hour games?
- A large majority of the killer cast is forced to play 3 gen or gtfo on most of the maps. I refuse to play Lerys or RPD "normally". You win when you 3 gen and you lose when you don't. This is a reflection of poor map design and overly safe loops with too many pallets/windows that can be chained together.
- Survivors have way too much gen progress addition compared to the killer's base kit. On top of this you can have way too many thing to make a 90 second objective be 20 seconds if you do XYZ. The 90 second objective should pretty much be at best you can make it an 81 second objective.
- Some people enjoy trolling to drag out the game to make the other side miserable.
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@Mandy said:
It would be more confusing to players if it counted for challenges and didn't count for perks, it really does need to be one thing or the other. And in this case, Pyramid Heads cages have been designed to be unlike hooks so it makes sense that anything related to unhooking (or hooking) doesn't work, that includes perks and challenges.
So then would it not be healthier for the game to just say : Cages count as hooks?
This would let PH get BBQ from cages and prevent tunneling.
This would make it less confusing for new players.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339155#Comment_3339155
Said in a different way - I am mediocre player, but I want to win even against Hens's squad 100% of all games. No thank you. This is not healthy at all
Said in a different way :
Killers should have a base high level of regression
Perks like DH shouldn't be 50% or more effective than other exhaustion perks.
Eruption should affect SWF and solos equally (same for overcharge which people often forget is 100% negated by SWF but also destroys solo players).
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339075#Comment_3339075
How about it doesn't ignore it, but only deactivates upon a Survivor down? You hit them with the Enraged Attack, the Survivor isn't put into the dying state, so you're still "enraged".
And what purpose would that serve? You chased someone and got nothing. That is entirely the point of what the Enrage feature does in VHS. When you hit someone they go down and start bleeding out and permanently losing health.
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339063#Comment_3339063
Honestly we need to either buff almost all the killer perks or give killers that are not nurse-blight somewhere between 6-8 total perk slots to balance this out.
I think your slightly exaggerating. Killer micro play matters a lot more then I think you realize for killer. killer powers matter quite a bit. A series of micro plays that the killer makes a mistake in and the survivor triumph over does greatly change outcome of the match. Your ability to use killer power effectively and not deal with boring drawback of killer powers more valuable then you realize. killer perk matter a lot as well. i mean its 4 perks vs 16 perks. so yeah it is important that killer perks contribute to the match for killer? I do not think you need 6-8 perks slots. just 4 good perks.
-"I think your slightly exaggerating. Killer micro play matters a lot more then I think you realize for killer. killer powers matter quite a bit."
I think you're dead wrong. Take any Killer from the "C" list played by the best player in the world for that killer. Have them play with whatever addons they choose across every map in the game against different highly skilled SWF teams. And then Bring in someone like Hens to play Nurse with no perks and no addons (not telling the survivors the nurse has nothing to help). Hens on naked nurse will absolutely destroy any killer from the C block.
Almost every killer in the C block is going to struggle on the majority of survivor sided maps even with "the best possible loadout".
This is one of the big problems with DBD. The difference between best in slot Nurse/Blight and Best in slot anything else is massive.