CrypticGirl
CrypticGirl
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@Paribean said:
The devs keep bringing up that tunneling, camping and slugging are unhealthy parts of the game, but never why they accure. A big component as to why these situations happen is because the killer role just doesn´t have enough tools to combat things like fast gen speeds, rapid healing speeds or just purely map balancing.
When are tool boxes going to be addressed ?
I think this is the biggest reason for tunneling is gens speeds and that the average killer mathematically can not keep up with a commodious tool box and addons like Socket swivels, Wire spool and Brand new part. If you´ve ever played on EU servers then you probably know the dread of seeing a tool box or two in your lobby as killer and going against multiple brand new parts leaving you with no option but to tunnel. Not to mention that even if a survivor doesn´t have a tool box they are going to spawn next to a generator and can instantly start working on it (that is if you don´t have corrupt intervention or mobility), which put the killer at a severe disadvantage.
When are healing speeds going to be addressed ?
In the resent developer stream they have mention that they are going to look at addons like syringes and styptics, but that still doesn´t change the fact that a lot of healing perks this got massively buffed making strategies like hit&run way less impactful. While antiheal perks like sloppy butcher and franklins got heavely nerfed. Which leads killers to do the next best thing which is tunneling and camping.
Are there any options even left ?
If the antitunel, camp and slugging go through I don´t think the killer has any option but to, well play like a bot. Just instakick the freshly added 20 pallets to every map and go after the first survivor you see. Which at that point why not impelement killer bots into normal matches because to be frank, I doubt anyone is going to play a role with no agency and no choices to choose from. An opinion which is already being echoed by content creators taking breaks from playing killer.
Because none of those things are the true reason why Killers tunnel. The true reason why Killers tunnel is because it's incredibly easy to do, requires very little, if any skill, and it's extremely rewarding. For Survivors, it takes an insane amount of skill and coordination to counter, the latter of which is way easier said than done in solo queue.
BHVR tried to address that in the last PTB, and I'm sure I don't need to remind you how that went.
So now the question remains, when will BHVR address the true reasons for tunneling? Given what they revealed in yesterday's stream, I'm convinced the answer will be never.
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@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018329#Comment_4018329
It would literally make no difference to me because i don't rage quit my games like a child throwing a tantrum.
And I'm speaking as a solo queue survivor who has no SWF to play with.
I don't DC on first down either, but if enough people quit the solo queue, us remaining solo queuers won't be able to find a match.
So in that sense, the DC penalties would make a difference for you, even if you yourself don't suffer the penalty.
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018329#Comment_4018329
So you can tell me a reason why it should be okay to DC after the first down?
I am completly open to a good argument.
Btw I said in my first Post that i think that the penality is way to long.
Not saying it should be okay, but I recognize that it happens to the best of us sometimes, and the penalty being proposed be OP would not be okay in any circumstances.
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
It is funny to me that I get more Downvotes than upvotes since I speak for the sake of Soloque Survivors here.
It doesn´t affect the Killer that much if a Survivor dcs on the first down. He will get a 4k more likely.
SWFs won´t be affected that much either, since they play with that guy and can dc together or ask him what is wrong with him.
The problem with the dc on first down is a huge problem for Soloque and I still didnt hear a single point why it should be okay to do so.
You can´t say the Killer is tunneling or slugging or facecamping the moment you get downed first and all you do is throwing your teammates under the bus.
Yeah no. Having those even more insane penalties would obliterate solo queue entirely. Because no one would even want to play solo queue. Basically requiring people to play Killer or SWF just to play the game at all should not be a thing.
And I'm speaking as a solo queue Survivor who has no SWF to play with.
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@Swampfox said:
Have you thought about it? because of every update that hurts the Killer side of things especially weak Killers this encourages them to use stronger killers or do unsportsman like things like slugging or tunneling in response
Pallet density and Generator repair speeds are part of this problem. skill or not. if it is based on skill how come more powerful Killers have became more popular/adopted recently the ones that depending on how you look at them, take more or less skill such as Wesker or nurse because of their high mobility?
Even I started to use them more often because I am not trying to slug as Billy sure Billy can destroy pallets instantly with this chainsaw but he still has to rev up the Chainsaw for longer than it would take to just break the pallet.
it does not help when the Survivor can just constantly pre-drop pallets and move on to the next pallet just 10 feet away doing this for the entire maps length as three generators can pop in the first minute of the game because of gen rush perks and tool boxes
I guarantee there's at least one peron, running weaving spiders in a third of every game anyone plays and on top of this.
the new survivor has not only a generator perk that can be paired with other generator perks and items to constantly get great skill checks that can complete the generator in half the time by Yourself.
But a perk that encourages you to be stealthy and not even take up chases but also lets you escape from chases extremely easy because you leave barely any trace or tracks to follow or go off of after the Survivor runs away faster than majority of killers to somewhere out of Sight, but can also be paired with perks that do the same thing without any requirement
I could literally run a circle inside of the shack and have my scratch marks disappear before I can Circle back to them because they disappear just around 3 seconds or less thats about the same amount of time it takes for a killer to damage a generator in
https://youtu.be/10GSoLZ0qb8?si=Omd6pv7XvSzERSQ6
Let me know Your thoughts on this one
Have you thought about it? because of every update that hurts the Killer side of things especially weak Killers this encourages them to use stronger killers or do unsportsman like things like slugging or tunneling in response
Please. Killers will tunnel and slug in response to buffs as well. They don't tunnel and slug because of nerfs. They do it because they can, and they can't stand losing a single match. It's an addiction that they can't bear the thought of ever losing, and that's the primary reason why the tunneling and slugging reduction system got delayed.
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If they changed the number of pallets to be dependent on which Killer we're facing, we'd need a million variants of all the maps. So I don't see that happening...
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016646#Comment_4016646
Because its not MEANT to reduce the effectiveness of camping. It's mean to reduce the effectiveness of FACE camping aka standing RIGHT IN FRONT of the hooked survivor. IF you hook trade you buy your team more time compared to someone whose already been sitting for a while. It's better to get the person off before they hit the next hook stage and give your fresh 70 second stage than to put so much more pressure on your team. You get more time to reset, work on gens if the killer is actually sitting by hook and less pressure for the killer in general. If a killer is literally sitting by the hook you get either the most free 3 out of all time when played correctly (which isn't that hard) or the game is already in a losing state for the killer.
Whether you camp at two feet away or twenty feet away, it makes no difference. Whether you camp at two feet away or twenty feet away, Survivors can rescue one person, and one makes the trade. Whether you camp at two feet away or twenty feet away, the result is the same: a guaranteed death for one Survivor, a guaranteed escape for the other three if they just bust out gens, and an INCREDIBLY boring match for all four of them.
Therefore, I fail to see why it's so important to point out that the mechanic is just for FACE camping every time it's brought up. Every. Single. Time.
Because the distance at which you camp the hook makes ZERO difference.
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I never saw it as a problem. It's way more accessible than the Amazon Prime drops, where you actually had to pay. With Twitch, you can just have it running in the background while you do other things. You don't have to engage with the streamers or their chats.
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@MaddieMage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016748#Comment_4016748
I just started putting people on ignore. I’m not gonna keep talking in circles
I was about to say a similar thing. I believe that person understood your point just fine, they just don't care. Although they did (shockingly) provide a good suggestion, that being whenever you test whether your troubleshooting worked, to try custom matches rather than public matches. You don't get penalized for DC'ing from custom matches.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016739#Comment_4016739
The whole point is for the DC punishment to be painful and frustrating for the offender. If the new system is more painful and frustrating than the old system, which based on your complaints it sounds like it is, then it’s working exactly as intended.
The old system worked exactly as intended as well, so there was no reason for the change. And as was pointed out numerous times, whether you're logged in or not, you're not playing the game anyway. So again, no reason for the change.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016553#Comment_4016553
It actually does. Anti-face camp really does make you respect the distance to hook.
But it doesn't reduce the effectiveness of the camping, especially if you're playing a ranged, mobile, or teleporting Killer (which is what, 3/4ths of the roster now?). I know a lot of people like to bring up hook trades as an argument, but if a Survivor trades and is now on hook being camped by the Killer, then we're back to square one.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016504#Comment_4016504
Not anti-camp. It's anti-face camp which means it doesnt allow the killer to sit literally right next to hook.
As if that makes a difference. 😒
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DC penalties are needed, yes, but this level of punishment is not. The old DC penalties were just fine. There was no need to change them.
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@Alicia_Tried6041 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016319#Comment_4016319
All they have to do is back up a little and just wait. Bar doesn't even fill. Its worthless.
Or they can stand right in your face and let you unhook yourself, and then hit you as soon as your feet touch the ground, eliminating the endurance, and then tunnel you right off hook, rinse and repeat.
So yeah, anti-facecamp doesn't do jack.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
I play solo queue, so I would be totally ok with this, but I also play killer so I think it would only be fair to compensate killers with basekit Corrupt Intervention.
Why do Killers need compensation for basekit Kindred? It's not like it's hindering Killers in any way.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015845#Comment_4015845
Exactly this!
When everyone in a match is of a similar skill level and mindset, then tunneling is VERY counterable. The only reason so many people think it is insurmountable is because this game does a very bad job of matchmaking people of appropriate skill levels and attitudes together, and so you get solo queue teammates who don't have any idea what they're doing, or just give up at the slightest inconvenience. It follows that the logical solution is to address matchmaking, so people are matched with suitable teammates and opponents, instead of trying to twist the fundamentals to handhold weaker players.
Identifying and exploiting your opponents' weak spots is the key to basically ANY PvP game. If you leave your pieces hanging in Chess and they get taken, no one would argue that your opponent was playing unfair/mean/its not a valid strategy/rushed their objectives. It's simply how the game is played, and DbD operates on much the same principle. So often when Survivors in my matches complain of "tunneling", they actually just left their pieces hanging. Healing under hook, taking aggro while on death hook, body blocking with their post-unhook protections etc. Learning how to not make yourself a target for tunneling, is an important skill for Survivors. And protecting your teammates in the event they DO get targetted is an equally valuable skill, but no one seems interested in learning it.
Too many people seem to have forgotten that Survivor is a team role, and are only interested in their own Survival.
I don't see what matchmaking has to do with tunneling. Killers will tunnel at low/mid MMR because it's easy, and then they'll tunnel at high MMR because they claim it's "necessary."
And even when tunneling is counterable, that doesn't make it fun to go against. It's boring as all get-out. You'll either get eliminated quickly, or you'll be sitting on a gen yawning with boredom. And the one being tunneled is 99% certain to die, even if they buy enough time for the teammates to do the gens and escape.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015525#Comment_4015525
That is basically saying…
The feedback is more important than the actual PTB data, which means that when players create feedback, even though they didn't actually play on the PTB, that is completely valid.
It also means that changes can be made based on PTB feedback, even though the entire PTB hasn't happened, because the goal isn't to collect as much PTB data as possible.
It just means that BHVR pulled the tunneling/slugging reduction because Killers cried about it, not because there was actual proof that the changes were too punishing.
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At least we can see that the Killer can abandon once the Survivors are all bots.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015485#Comment_4015485
ok so its gone from people DC because of tunneling. when suggested that people admit they DC for silly reasons and not tunneling or not had a bad run of matches then they are saying this not to look weak and now they say it for the audience. realy? even when the people DCing say why they DC you still refuse to accept it lol. you will make any excuse to not see whats in front of you
The bottom line is that there is a lot more than what's in front of you. The fact that you refuse to see the bigger picture is the problem.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015384#Comment_4015384
By that logic, people are in no position to say the phase 2 changes would have been fine going live. They are also in no position to say there wasn't enough data collected, since they don't know what data was collected, and they don't know how that data was interpreted.
By that logic, people are in no position to say the phase 2 changes would have been fine going live.
No one said that, though.
They are also in no position to say there wasn't enough data collected, since they don't know what data was collected, and they don't know how that data was interpreted.
But we do know that the changes were pulled after only two days, and the "data" was only collected from a single grain in the sand. As one person said above, more data is always better. We know there was a lot more outcry from Killers than there was data.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015239#Comment_4015239
The representative sample was fine. Again, people don't need to actually play on the PTB to make an opinion, and many of the console players mind up their minds when they watched their favorite streamer, or read about the changes on their favorite social media choice. People like to take about “proof” or “testing things out themselves”, but the reality is most people don’t care about that. Most people are going off of vibes and feelings, and they decided how they felt about the PTB regardless if they played it themselves.
Also, your scenario doesn't even work. Even if there was a lot of console players that wanted to "wait and see", the Steam players that already decided to boycott killer, still would have boycotted killer on launch day, which still would have caused a financial disaster. And the Steam players did have the weekend to test the changes because the PTB was still up, so if they really wanted to, they could have tried the changes and then posted their feelings online, on whether or not they agreed with the revert decision.
And if the PTB changes went live, I literally would have boycotted playing killer. I wouldn’t have cared how the console players felt about the changes, and I would have refused to “try to adapt” to it. And many other people would have done the same. “Try to adapt” only works if people are willing to still play as killer.
You're also ignoring the fact that BHVR has access to way more stats then we do, and actually knows the average kill rate for this PTB, and the average kill rates for the other PTBs. I’m still claiming the kill rates were extremely low on this PTB, enough to be a problem. And no, I don’t need to prove this. If you honestly think the kill rates were around the same, then you obviously weren’t watching various streamers try the PTB, to see how they handled the changes. And really, watching a lot of other people play the PTB can be more important than trying the changes yourself, because it’s showing how different people, with different playstyles, are handling the changes.
Lol, if you know that BHVR has access to all the stats and we don't, you're in no position to claim that the kill rates were low enough to be a problem. You didn't see all the matches played in the ptb either, so you don't know how low the kill rates were.
Also, if you want to boycott playing killer, you can go right on ahead. Just don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015118#Comment_4015118
When people say "force survivors to play matches they don't want to play", they are usually claiming that the ragequitting penalties "force" survivors to play matches they don't want to play. That implies they don't think the ragequitting penalties should exist, because they think survivors should be allowed to ragequit without penalties, if they don't want to play a game.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015129#Comment_4015129
Do you ever have proof of your conspiracy theories? What is your proof that the game would have been fine if the phase 2 changes went live? What is your proof that BHVR didn't have a really good reason to revert the phase 2 changes?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015120#Comment_4015120
There was so much backlash from the PTB, that it literally doesn't matter if the console players tested it themselves. Most people don't even want to bother with the PTB, and instead they would rather watch their favorite streamer play the PTB, or just read about the changes on their favorite social media choice.
Yes, a lot of people made up their minds about the PTB, even though they never played the PTB. That's how this game works.
You just went on about how Killers will stop playing if they "get nerfed too much," and then you pivot right back to Survivors' ragequitting. Could you just pick an argument and stick to it?
Would you actually be okay with Killers quitting the game?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015081#Comment_4015081
Did you know that "force survivors to play matches they don't want to play" and "Would you rather they all never queue up again and see what happens to queue times" are the types of things people say, if they believe survivors should be able to ragequit without penalties?
Can you just straight up tell us what your point is?
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@tes said:
I don’t support that massive us vs them that gathered here, but I’m truly curious why some killers/survivors try harding during events. Because they are just bad designed for this and you aren’t usually gonna encounter a good challenge on opposite side
If you are really playing for wins, go to normal mode. Let people do their quests in this halloween, it’s basically a lack of challenge when you sweating against people who aren’t even trying to outplay you
And this proves exactly what would happen if there was a separate ranked and Casual mode, like a lot of players ask for.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014507#Comment_4014507
No. That's not acceptable, because if a patch happened that massively raised kill rates, you know survivors would be complaining non-stop until the changes were reverted.
The actual solution is to figure out a balanced system, which includes the adjustments, and test it on the PTB to see if the kill rates are similar to the average PTB. And if the kill rates are too low, then you delay phase 2 even further until another set of adjustments can be made.
BHVR doesn't ever need for phase 2 to go live before its' ready. It only takes a couple of days on the PTB to figure out if the changes are completely out of control or not. The kill rates on the last PTB were massively lower than average, and it's not because killers "didn't adapt", it's because the PTB was completely out of control.
Fun fact: Survivors aren't Killers, and the roles are not equal. They're not meant to be equal. Therefore, the changes needed for both roles will not be equal.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014417#Comment_4014417
"Further adjustments down the road" means the phase 2 changes should wait until the adjustments are ready.
The kill rates are always supposed to average around 60%.
We aren't supposed to have a "well, the kill rates are really bad, but we'll fix it over the next few months" situation.
Impossible, since we don't know what kinds of adjustments will be needed. And the only way to know that is to release the changes and let us play with them for some time. Nothing is ever perfect and flawless upon release.
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You don't have to use it. And the Killer shouldn't need to slug a specific person more than twice anyway, other than to be a jerk. Survivors don't need to deal with that.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014376#Comment_4014376
They are related, because survivors complained so much about the phase 1 survivor changes that they got massively nerfed, but they also expect the phase 2 killer changes to be as powerful as possible.
Phase 1 and phase 2 should be treated equally. The phase 2 changes should be small and not very impactful, because that is what happened to the phase 1 changes.
The suggestions in this thread are way overboard, considering how weak the phase 1 changes are. This thread is basically a "how can we nerf killers" instead of "how can we balance the game".
And none of these suggestions would fix the kill rate problem, where the changes would massively lower kill rates, but there isn't enough compensation to bring the kill rates back up to 60%. Remember that the kill rates are supposed to be at least 60%, even if you don't want them to be. Which means if you make giant killer nerfs, without proper compensation, then you aren't balancing the game properly. The easiest solution would for the "killers aren't tunneling" incentives to be much more powerful, but instead, people just want to nerf nerf nerf, and don't want killers to have real compensation that actually helps them change their playstyle.
If the changes aren't impactful, then what is even the point?
And the tunnel reduction did give Killers compensation for unique hooks, but no one cared about that. It was supposed to have a big impact, but now that it's back on the drawing board, we'll probably get a watered down version which will accomplish nothing.
And it's not like the tunnel reduction would be the end of everything for Killers. If kill rates did suffer as a result, there would be further adjustments down the road, whether it be system adjustments, general Killer adjustments, or specific Killer adjustments. But no one cares about that, because they're going to keep demanding more and more Killer buffs, and more and more Survivor nerfs.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014110#Comment_4014110
Because we’ve had multiple people on these forums, admitting to frequently ragequitting, or admitting they have a friend that frequently ragequits.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014108#Comment_4014108
Making a thread doesn’t work, because it will get derailed by people telling us the problems aren’t real.
And we’re even being told in this thread that ragequitting isn’t a real problem. And if people create threads to complain about ragequitters, they get derailed too.Notice the theme here? Anything survivors do is “not a problem”
Your arguments in particular are so biased and so out-of-touch (even with yourself) that people are finding it harder and harder to take any of your arguments seriously anymore.
So you may be correct that if you tried to start a topic about bully squads, you may not gain much sympathy. But that's largely because you show less than zero empathy for other players in general.
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@Zuiphrode said:
You decided to ruin the game for four other people because of your own entitlement and did it often enough to get penalized even under the current extremely loose system.
Not that it would have mattered, because the person would have been dead anyway.
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014117#Comment_4014117
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014110#Comment_4014110
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014104#Comment_4014104
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014108#Comment_4014108
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014097#Comment_4014097
As sad as I am to say this, while the forum is meant for discussions, feedback and opinions, all of us are currently just feeding the fight (I gave up trying after seeing like a dozen thread get derailed like this and three get entirely closed).
When reasoning with the mentality that "not enough innocents are being punished to matter, so the punishement system is fine, also most people are lying about being innocents and getting false-flagged and are actually frequent ragequitters." There's really no point to continue trying after several threads.
This thread is about the anti-tunnel system (and how it can be properly implemented next time so it doesn't mess with normal gameplay and create lose-lose situations) and its consequences when it eventually comes back out of the metaphorical oven. What are our thoughts?
As far as the tunneling reduction system is concerned, the only thing that really needed to remove was the removal of the blocking or regressing gens if a Survivor dies before six hooks. That may have taken it one step too far. Aside from that, the system was fine, IMO.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014097#Comment_4014097
And this is exactly what I’m talking about. If killers complain about bully squads, they get told it’s not a real problem.
And if killers complain about gen rushing, they get told it’s not a real problem.
The main theme is killer problems “aren’t real”, and BHVR shouldn’t spend time fixing them, and instead, all the time and effort should be spent on making the survivor experience better.
You responded to a comment literally listing various fixes to bully squads with "BHVR never does anything to fix bully squads!" while also proving AmpersandUnderscore's previous comment about derailing the thread about tunneling. I am truly flabbergasted here.
Also, if "most" Survivors play out their matches, that would imply that ragequitting isn't as big of an issue, meaning that the current penalties are doing their job just fine. So why are you advocating for harsher punishments?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013974#Comment_4013974
I would happily agree to longer queue times, if it means my games won't be ruined by frequent ragequitters.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013969#Comment_4013969
It benefits the quality of matchmaking, because the rule-abiding survivors that actually play out their games, won't have their games ruined by frequent ragequitters anymore.
I would happily agree to longer queue times, if it means my games won't be ruined by frequent ragequitters.
Unfortunately, most people don't share that sentiment. When the devs first tested the SBMM system, testing out queue time priority vs. quality match priority, long queue times were a huge complaint about the latter.
And what was the biggest frustration for Killers in 2v8 again? Oh yeah, the insanely long queue times!
A ragequitter queue will never fly if it just leads to longer queue times for all players.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013946#Comment_4013946
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013945#Comment_4013945
Most survivors play through their games without frequently ragequitting. They are playing games that are sometimes frustrating, but they still play through the games. These survivors deserve to be in games with other survivors that will actually play through games, even if they might be frustrating.
And again, the frequent ragequitters being placed together, is the perfect Go Next solution. Anyone that thinks it's fine to ragequit, should be happy to be with other people that also think it's fine to ragequit. They can ruin each other's games, and the rule-abiding survivors that want to play out their games, won't need to suffer the awfulness people that selfishly ragequit.
If ragequitting is so common, surely these people have already experienced what it's like to have others quit on them as well. It's not like a separate queue for ragequitters will be a new experience for them.
A separate ragequitter queue will lead to longer queue times for everyone. Perhaps even more so for the non-ragequitters if ragequitting is as common as people are making it out to be.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013850#Comment_4013850
And the reason is a complete lack of respect for teammates, and a complete lack of respect for the rules.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013858#Comment_4013858
The game is better off without frequent ragequitters. They are the #1 problem with solo q,. They should not be bargained with, since they act out of entitlement, and you can't fix that. They should be forced to play with other people that frequently ragequit, so they can ruin each other's games.
Really, just do that. Place the frequent ragequitters with each other. It's completely fair, because if someone thinks it's acceptable to ragequit, they should be 100% fine being in groups with other people that think the same way.
I think that's about the most entitled comment I've heard in a while. 🙄
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013572#Comment_4013572
"Kill that guy and you get a penalty"
How are you supposed to counter that?
Please dont say "dont kill that guy" cuz thats just following the new rule imposed on killers, not countering it.
The answer would vary wildly depending on which Killer you play. But even with the system, people are still certain that tunneling would be the best way to play. It just won't be the "auto-win" that it currently is.
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@runningguy said:
once again, the issue isnt tunneling or how often it happens. the issue is people refusing to counter it. it can and has been countered by myself and many others. The tunneling "issue" would go away if people just started changing play style and adapted. doesnt matter if it happens every 1 in 10 matches or every match…. counter it.
looping happens every match…. "how am i supposed to deal with this behaviour every match?" learn to counter it… adjust playstyle.
Can we not tell Survivors to "just counter tunneling" when Killers refused to counter the anti-tunnel mechanic and instead cried and got it cancelled in two days?
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Even if it's not "every single game," it is happening more frequently than before. Three days in a row, I've been tunneled out of the first match, and that hasn't happened before. Whether Killers are trying to get their "last hurrah" before the tunnel reduction system returns, or if they just don't care, who knows…
Anyway, don't blow off other people's complaints just because you don't see it in every single game.
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I can't wait to see how well 7 Days Blood Moons will compete whenever it comes out…
It's like my two favorite games are having a baby. 😅
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@Ohyakno said:
I played survivor for about three hours last night(seeing if map offerings work) and saw hard tunneling precisely one time at 5 gens. It was me and a dracula. Fortunately my team saw what was happening and just did gens while he was proxy camping and got a 2 out after I was dead.
In short: I don't believe you. It's not congruent with my experience or the experience of any given survivor mains you can watch on twitch who have a much larger sample size than either of us. When you make sweeping and exaggerated statements like this it only harms your argument.
Just because it doesn't happen to you much doesn't mean it's not happening to other people. Some people do see tunneling every game, and some people don't. Different players can have wildly different experiences.
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I can't blame them, actually. I've been in that position before, where I got tunneled to death hook, but the teammates managed to get the Killer off me. I really just wanted out of that match at that point, so I pushed the gens as hard as I could while the teammates kept the Killer busy. I felt bad for leaving while someone was on hook, but I couldn't take the risk of being targeted again.
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I'm pretty much feeling the same. It's been about four years, I've spent about three of those years getting all my Survivors to P9 and then afterwards getting my main (Dwight) to P100. And during this past anniversary event, I've gotten all my Killers to P1, so if I ever get into Killer, they'd have a full load out.
But I couldn't even get into the Killer role because the gameplay is just so boring to me. So now that my major goals are done, I no longer play on a daily basis, because I've had my fair share of frustrating matches as Survivor. Despite that, I can't bring myself to leave the game entirely.
But even if I do leave the game, I can still enjoy the universe by writing fan fiction. Or playing with DBD-Survivor Sims in The Sims 3 (and writing fan fiction about that), lol.
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I'd rather have 40 seconds of endurance than no endurance at all.
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I'd rather they focus on QoL stuff over some silly cosmetics.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011461#Comment_4011461
The time-decayed penalty system was terrible, because a survivor could literally ragequit in 90% of their games, and the penalty system wouldn’t care.
The current penalty system cares about the percentage of ragequits, which makes way more sense.
But it doesn't make sense to force people to keep playing. Period.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011441#Comment_4011441
Suicide attempts in my matches aren't that fast. People getting downed in 15s are likely genuine AFKs who got nabbed by a dishonorable killer using Lethal and taking the free hook. Being away from your screen for a few seconds isn't throwing the match and doesn't need that sort of penalty, even if it's chronic. People suicide out when they get frustrated or feel the match (or rather, their own escape) is lost. Is there a point when it's okay to give up?
This is from one of my matches a couple hours ago:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QCDZTDLTN3RR/199bdda87f077-screenshoturl.jpg
This Mikalea stood or tbagged by a hook three or four times while I ignored her. This was the last time. Match was clearly over. So is this one fine or no? Is it okay at this point but not at the point a gen back with an additional living teammate?
Had this Nancy a few days ago:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TSE1F2D8Y2BR/199bddb4d5992-screenshoturl.jpg
Every time she saw me she got off her gen and chased me to die. She spent more time chasing me than I spent chasing my opponents. It was so annoying I kept becoming bats just to get away from her and her pain noises. This match was obviously a stomp, and with a DC too. Are they just supposed to run in circles and be toyed with until the end or is it okay to just give up sometimes? Like, where's the line between griefing and admitting defeat? And who determines it? Will it be based around time? On the ratio of gens complete vs amount of living teammates? When she wasn't tormenting me this Nancy at least worked gens, while the Vee dying in the background ratted. Details matter. Motivations are complex. You think a company who can't release a chapter without a random beam on the loading screen or a god-sized tambourine will be able to make anything remotely nuanced in this regard? There have been a number of people in the forum saying--just recently--that they've had grade reductions for being killed too fast. There's already a system and it's flawed. We dont need another one penalizing the wrong thing and ignoring the real problems.
And who is getting downed on purpose every 5 games? Who are these trolls that I've never, ever seen? All I've seen close to that is memeing.
If you want to address both genuine gameplay issues and random disgruntledness then lets address both, but efforts to improve the survivor experience have been routinely taken out back and shot. And, as I said previously, this seems to be a heavily survivor-sided issue, yet people insist it's just random reasons and minor inconveniences despite that being pure assumption, and despite killler DCs being drastically less common.
Here's another scenario. I once went against a Huntress with Iri Head hatchets. Somehow all three teammates got slugged in the same tile. Feng Min was hooked, but Jill and Carlos continued to lay there, not moving at all. With Kindred, I could see Huntress standing there camping. She had no reason to leave the hook as long as the slugs stayed there. I hid, praying to the gods that the people on the ground would crawl away, but nope. So there was no way I could make a safe save, knowing that the Huntress could insta-down me with her Iri Head. I even considered letting that happen so we could all abandon, but my dumb arse stuck it out anyway. Only when Min died on hook did the two slugs finally start to move…towards the basement. Huntress eventually found me and gave me the signal to pick them up, so I did. And then they went into a locker and DC'd. I'm just like, "Okay then…" Should I have been punished for "ratting" in that situation?
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011374#Comment_4011374
i think trying to get people to q up to remove the penalty isnt a good thing. it encourages people that already stressed out and reached their limit to continue playing the game where they will attempt to go next and take out the frustrations on other players.
previous system gave people 24 hours to cool off, it didnt say "we know you have had enough and likely to dc again or go next but keep playing to remove the penalty"
with this in mind, the old system was better. i try to think about things as me being in that situation. if im going to DC because im frustrated that much time after time then i get a chance to reduce it by playing 20 matches… thats 20 matches i can go next in (pretty quickly done maybe under 2 hours) bingo i earnt free DC again. for someone that plays 8 hours consecutively 2 hours of going next to earn more free DC is nothing.
old system… if im going to DC due to being stressed and annoyed time after time then i get hit with a 60 sec pen, 5min i think ok another time i do this im getting hit hard for a full 24 hours with no going back so better play the game or come back tomorrow. i can go next as many times as i like in 24 hours but my pen remains the same so there is no incentive for me continue and intentionally go next to reduce my timer.
i say bring back 24 hour timer and let people cool off, dont let them continue to play when they are that frustrated with the game.
Exactly! We all say if people get frustrated with the game enough to DC, they should stop playing. But the current penalty system forces people to keep playing anyway, by queueing up to tick down the timer, and then playing more matches to remove the penalty points. Which makes no sense.
Hopefully now people can understand how flawed this penalty system is. I'm baffled at how anyone can support it, no matter how frustrated they get by the DC's.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4011341#Comment_4011341
Yes. What matters is the immediacy of them. Allowing someone to DC from a match and instantly requeue encourages this lobby-shopping style of gameplay. The penalties getting aggressively worse is meaningless if the first ones are free because these people are avoiding reaching those stages. 20 matches is not that much for someone whose main or only game is DbD. The first few DCs are the crucial ones to target. There needs to be an immediate penalty that delays the requeuing. Even if it is just short like 60 seconds or a couple of minutes.
When DCing and requeuing is quicker than naturally playing out the rest of the match, people have no incentive to stay. If anything (or nothing) happens that they dislike? They just DC and find a match they deem "better" (which is an abitrary metric these days but still) in record time
Even if the first DC or two are "free," they really aren't. Those DC's stay on your record until you play out 20 matches afterwards. And the DC timer doesn't even tick down unless you actually go to queue up. It doesn't tick down when you simply turn off the game and walk away. That's definitely more harsh than simply waiting 24 hours for the DC point to get wiped. (And I suspect that's why people keep queueing up, because it's the only way to get rid of your DC penalties.)
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So only the Killers get horses or vehicles? No thanks…
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@VibranToucan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010833#Comment_4010833
The people we tell to stop playing, are already harming the game by constantly ruining matches with their DCs. I'd gladly take longer queue times on both sides if it means less DCs at 5 gens.
You don't know how often those particular people DC. We've all had our one-off moments. But if enough people are doing it that it's happening every game, that points more to a game problem than a people problem.