Crowman
Crowman
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@[Deleted User] said:
It's hilarious how quick the survivors mains immediately troll threads bringing concern to how survivors can be so toxic to other players.
Bringing silly survivor rule book arguments when all killers can do is progress the game with their actions.
What does tea bagging do at the gates? It needlessly extends the game. Until the killer comes to them and be trolled.
What does clicking do? Nothing it does not progress or extend the game, it's just there to annoy.
Tunnelling progresses the game.
Camping also progresses the game.
Slugging is the only method for killer to be 'toxic' but you will die over time and requires all players to be slugged. Else then it loops back to survivors being malicious again and not picking people up.
The survivors are in the complete POWER ROLE in terms of toxic behaviour.
It's telling whenever there's a topic bringing up survivor toxicity, a bunch of survivors come in and defend it by saying blaming the killer for not liking their intentional bm.
It's also funny, because the same survivors will throw a fit you facecamp them to death, because how dare you do anything they don't like.
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The rift fragments don't have a pop up for some reason, but you still get them.
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The issue is how BHVR has been balancing the game. Instead of lettings killers have fun and strong powers with fair trade offs, they keep adding arbitrary restrictions and clunkiness to make playing as a killer less enjoyable. Then with the balance being towards making sure killers struggle to get 2 kills in a match if they try to play fair just causes many killers to play in a way survivors don't like in order to win.
Devs are just slowly extracting the fun aspects of the game out to make it more balance instead of trying to balance the fun aspects.
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@Hippie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2685023#Comment_2685023
I mean, there's still a big difference between those two complaints. Tunnelling and facecamping end the game early for one or multiple Survivors, and are actually torturous to deal with in a pure gameplay sense--those two behaviors actually affect the video game mechanically. Even the developers have stated that they are trying to find a solution for facecamping, which confirms that it is a behavior that actually affects the video game negatively and needs correcting.
However, crouching and clicking have no actual effect on gameplay. There would be no difference mechanically between a Survivor standing in the exit gate doing absolutely nothing and one standing in the gate crouching repeatedly. It's purely emotional. The developers aren't going to do anything about crouching and non-macro flashlight clicking because they literally do not affect the game itself in any way, shape or form.
Not to mention, like I said previously, teabagging your opponents has existed since the dawn of multiplayer gaming, and people understand that in every other video game... except here. It's pretty crazy.
You really cant' complain if you get tunneled out of a game if you are bming.
You can't be a toxic survivor and expect the killer to want to play nice.
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I have a general problem with the design behind boons, mostly the fact that killers can't permanently remove them from play despite being "totem" perks.
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So you want to kill an addon that allows you to double damage survivors once since any survivor after that happens is going to avoid each other.
You want to turn this addon into a form of iri heads and the power level is not even similar.
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The only way a survivor is getting hit by a Dire Crow and not the swarm is if the Killer places the Dire Crow down at a tile and the survivor blindly runs into the range of it.
Played a few artist games myself and many survivors either run to another tile, attempt to bait the Dire Crow, or run the tile in a way they can run into it from behind.
Unlike other range powers it's impossible to use the power to imstant damage people in the open since by the time you can fire it the survivor is already out of damage range.
So yeah she needs to be a threat at loops because she's not outside of them.
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I would say it's the reduced knife capacity. Trickster now spends a lot more time reloading even if he can down survivors marginally faster. 110% killer with no map pressure now spends more time having to locate lockers to use his power is going to lose more games on average. Not to mention some maps just suck for locker spawns.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2684375#Comment_2684375
You know what I'm just gonna leave threads altogether all I see is all the killer mains whining and complaining about everything all the survivor mains complaining and being told that they are cry babies and they should just "GeT gOoD" he got nerfed for a reason and that's all there is too it
If survivors not finding Deathslinger to be fun to play against is all that matters to nerf killers. Then things that killers don't find fun so be nerfed as well. But wait, you don't see survivors getting nerfed to make killer more enjoyable.
He was a solid killer that if someone devoted time to getting good at would see results. He was never overperforming and got unjustly nerfed.
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@Chordyceps said:
I'm a killer main here, and I think that the ADS speed nerf was really needed in terms of game balance. People are really just upset they can't instascope anymore. He's still a powerful killer though, you just need to play differently than you did before, more strategically. There's actual strategy to be had now in pre-aiming around corners and using LoS blockers to your advantage, and in that regard I think Slinger actually became more satisfying to get good with. He's also very fun to use stealth builds with. Since he doesn't have a super noticable lullabys like huntress, a slinger that is undetectable can actually be pretty terrifying.
If you want to play a killer who has to charge up before they fire their range weapon, you can play huntress.
There was no reason to remove an unique aspect of his power.
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The game is absolutely survivor sided at high mmr. Being survivor sided does not mean killers can't win. I think you need to experience high mmr games before stating whether or not the game is x sided.
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Can't say I blame killers for not wanting to play against Mikela since CoH is her base perk.
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No. It's fine for killers to negate specfic survivor strategies. It's only problematic if a killer negates every option a survivor has.
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Snuffing should just break the totem. Survivors have 5 totems to bless throughout a match and would require them to be smarter about when and where they bless.
I don't like either suggestion of limited uses or having to snuff the same totem multiple times before it breaks.
This would solve the unfairness that boons currently have where killers have no real answer to them besides tunneling the survivor out of the match.
CoH likely will still need to be nerfed, but that's an individual power problem on the perk rather than a core issue with boons.
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If you got chain hunt active on Pinhead, I don't think it's possible for a survivor to cleanse any totem.
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His title is "The Executioner". So yes it's fair for him to be able to quickly remove survivors from the match. It's still in the control of the survivors whether or not they get tormented.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676382#Comment_2676382
Ah, I now I can't really reply because you chose Pinhead as the example.
I never faced this killer. Not even once.
Left the game way before his reveal.
Rework Freddy is another example, because Forever Freddy was "unfun". I was just picking recent changes, but plently of things got nerfed for community feedback for better or worse. The problem is devs don't seem to understand their own game at a higher skill level and are too quick to cater to these demands.
That said, survivors complaining about everything killers have going for them is a more recent trend. Feels like back in 2019 despite the game having objectively more balance issues players on both sides were more than willing to play against strong things and do their best (with some exceptions like Iri Head Huntress) compared to now where it's not uncommon for suicides or d/cs to occur in multiple games back to back.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676367#Comment_2676367
Imma keep it real with u, chief.
I definitely prefer a killer who can control gens than a killer that has an advantage in chase.
At least one of them I can loop.
That's fine if you feel that way. But that's not what the devs hear from all the feedback.
Pinhead got complained about that if he built around controlling the box he was capable of preventing gens get done therefore he got nerfed.
Deathslinger got complained about because if a Slinger player got good enough at the killer they could shut down most loops and therefore he got nerfed.
It's a trend at this point that any time a killer has something strong going for them, it's "unfun". And it's honestly why I've played far more survivor this year.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676351#Comment_2676351
Ah, there's the problem! You're saying, "you deserve to lose (the game) because you lost (this 1v1)", but again, it is a 1v4 game. It being balanced so that any single interaction could be game-defining is bad for that aspect. It's not "One Hero Survivor and 3 Genrushing Hobos".
And the point of Killer powers is to avoid this balance. Either whilst they're doing the chase, pressure is somehow applied to the other 3 survivors; or they have a power that is much better at ending the 1v1 one way or the other, or they just have the mobility to bounce from survivor to survivor whilst also chasing. Or trap-based killers who just skip the chase aspect entirely by outplaying.
Hard to tell whether the 1v4 pressure or the 1v1 advantages get more complaints, though.
Both get complained about. Survivors basically don't want killers who can control gens or have an advantage in chase. Which then leaves killer with nothing and then wonder why camping and tunneling are getting more popular.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676349#Comment_2676349
Apparently you aren't good at reading, because everything I said implies that if survivor skill is greater than yours, you should lose. That implies that if you have more skill, you should win.
I know the idea of earning things is foreign to the current generation at large, but you aren't entitled to victory because you picked killer.
It's funny when survivors act like killers just want 4Ks. That's not the issue here. The issue is you think you somehow deserve to have a 50/50 shot at every chase interaction regardless of a killer's skill. That's not balance.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676337#Comment_2676337
No. You do not have three teammates. Not unless you queued with three other people. You have three individuals that may or may not care about unhooking you, much less working on gens or doing anything productive anyway. Just this morning I had one leave a trail of scratch marks to me and bodyblocked me in a corner until the plague could down us both. Frequently, the other survivors are the killer side's MVPs.
So again, you just believe that the player's skill shouldn't matter and that you should win chases purely on the basis you picked killer. There's a reason in MMOs, the best rewards come from the content that requires the most coordination. It's not easy to get people to coordinate together. You cannot and should not assume the randos you get paired with are even working together much less doing anything productive at all.
If individual skill shouldn't matter, then expect less games without 4-man SWF, since people will either find groups to work on comms, or quit. I'm sure you'd love it if every game had 15 minute queues again just to give you a stacked 4-man SWF bully squad.
Survivors are a team of 4 regardless if you queue solo or with friends.
Also weird how it's only survivor skill that matters to you, because as soon as I mention that 1v1 killers require skill to play effectively you blame me for "ignoring skill".
Typical survivor main bias right here.
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@Feyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676273#Comment_2676273
"Outplaying"
Imagine stating the exact reason looping is fun and should be the prime design of the chase, but still complaining about it.
Yes. If you OUTPLAY the killer, you should be able to run him indefinitely. That's called being better than you. That's how good balance works. The better player wins.
They keep adding killers that make this less of a thing. Taking skill out of the equation and just making every chase a matter of time until you go down. The most skilled thing you can do... Is nothing. Just run. Yaaaay.... So fun. I guess it is for the unskilled killers that can't loop but just want easy downs.
You can still outplay killers who have strong 1v1 powers, it's just harder. And did you know killers with strong 1v1 powers also take skill to use effectively. But you don't about the better playing winning, you just want to feel like you are good by being able to take the killer for a trip around the entire map.
Not to mention you are conveniently ignoring the fact you have 3 teammates you need to work together with to beat 1 player. So the killer should ultimately have the advantage in chase.
If you want a 1v1 pvp game, you can look at fighting games. DBD is not a fighting game where you need to be able to handle your opponent in a 1v1.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676322#Comment_2676322
When you mention the time spend for a Killer to walk to a Boon, you also have to think about the fact that the Survivor spends the same time to go to said Boon to heal. So at some point the Boon will either be in an area which is not relevant for the Killer and the Survivor will not really save time while healing OR the Survivors relocate the Boon to the area of action, which makes them spend more time setting up the Boon (and makes it easier for Killers to snuff it).
Survivor time is far less valuable than killers since it's a team of 4 survivors. It does not matter if 1 survivor has to spend time to go off and bless that totem, because it's always a net gain for the entire team.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676274#Comment_2676274
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676277#Comment_2676277
Ok so you took 3s to remove a totem and they will take 14s to bless it again, or you could intervene during that process if you know where they were before.
Because going out of your way to the corner of the map to spend 3 seconds to snuff out a boon totem that will be reblessed there when you have gens on the otherside of the map to protect is a great use of killer's time.
This is the ultimate issue with boons. It does not matter that a killer can snuff them out. It doesn't matter the act of snuffing out the boon is quick, because it's a time sink when it involves doing nothing else as the 1 player in a 1v4.
Boons are simply fundamentally broken by design.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
Takes 14s to set up CoH and ~3s to remove it....
Snuffing out the boon does not remove the perk from play since survivors can rebless the totem again. There is no option the killer has to remove boons from the game without killing the survivor with the perk.
Let killers break the boon totem so it can't be reblessed as the first step to giving boons fair counterplay.
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So your definition of toxic is playing the game to win.
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If you aren't going to play the game then I want my unhook bp from you.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
Basically killer semi decent at loops = boring apparently.
This is the trend survivors have been seeing setting. Why get better when you can demand nerfs?
And then they get upset that killers don't want to play and tell them to just "accept losing" because they are so good at accepting loss.
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@jotaro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2668922#Comment_2668922
you're kidding right? it should always be 50/50 chance of out mindgaming each other. that's what makes the game fun. with these new w killers the game is incredibly boring and feels very unfair to get "outplayed" by questionable hits over pallets and windows. the only way to win is genrushing and that is just boring as hell. god we miss the old days when chases were actually exciting and fair.
It's okay for killers to have powers that allow them to beat loops if they play well. Crying you can't run every killer like they are a powerless m1 killer is going to ruin the game.
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@Viamont said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671907#Comment_2671907
most people who have played her consider her middle S rank or top A rank so, its not a completly bad notion about her
She's better at highest MMR than say a Clown. But she's not going to be a killer you'll tournament players win with.
A solid killer added to the game regardless and sadly it means survivors are going to ask for her to be nerfed.
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Depipping doesn't even matter and you can't go down in grades and grades don't affect matchmaking. This is such a non-issue.
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You aren't suppose to save Deliverance until the end of the game. You are suppose to take aggro and get hooked when it's active, because it's completely resets a killer's pressure.
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@TransverseCaster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671001#Comment_2671001
The fact she can fight the entire map from anywhere on the map is a good enough reason. Nurse can only fight what's immediately around her.
If you stand sit and don't repel the swarm, then of course she'll easily down you from across the map. It doesn't take much effort to not be downed by cross map attacks.
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They teased swamp on twitter a couple weeks back, I thought. So that might be coming up this mid-chapter.
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@pizzaduffyhp90 said:
I think most Survivor Players just assume the killer has no counter play cause they have no experience going against them since she just came out. They forget that it takes time to learn the counter play I've only played against her once since she came out but, I played a few matches as her and I can already see some counter play when going against her.
No counterplay is just survivors saying that they don't want to have to learn how to play against a killer. It's basically all survivors need to do now, cry "no counterplay" and wait for nerfs.
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Ah yes another survivor main topic where the point is "killer just accept that you lose".
Survivors constantly ask for everything strong killers have to be nerfed and then wonder why killers don't want to play anymore.
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Someone didn't read the patch notes.
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Survivors now simply can't handle that killers should be difficult to beat in a 1v1 and cry for nerfs.
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New killer is released and like clockwork bad survivors are already asking for nerfs instead of getting better themselves.
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I agree. The issue with 50% as the balancing point is it factors killers getting 0K which while they can happen it's much easier for a killer to secure a single kill compared to getting no kills. Meaning the game is getting balanced around killers having to spend an entire match to kill 1 survivor which just makes killer really stressful.
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It does not work like that. A while back I reported a hacker and submitted a ticket with the match and then later that day ran into the same person in a lobby (backed out cuz not going to bother).
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@Remedicist said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2664798#Comment_2664798
I agree, CoH disrupts Slinger a lot currently. Not every Slinger used Monitor before as well and it was simply a nice perk on him since it enhanced what the game made him into: a stealthy ranged hunter. Now in order to play as he is intended, a specific perk is needed. It was a completely unneeded change.
The balance team has the problem of changing more than is needed. The best example I can give is when they overnerfed Freddy. Freddy's action penalty add-ons were problematic, but now he is left with a lackluster power and add-ons that do nothing to enhance his gameplay. And I still prefer og Freddy so both my mains being nerfed sucks.
I personally think the ads changes were okay as it gives survivors some counterplay (although the values could be reduced a bit) and it is more of a muscle memory thing to learn, but they did not give him much to compensate for the change. I think he should keep his 24m terror radius, move at 4.0m/s when aiming, change his ads movement speed addons into spear speed add-ons, and increase the values of his add-ons as they do not do a whole lot currently.
I read somewhere in another discussion that he should move at 115% when he has not reloaded. An interesting idea, but I think that would be more of an add-on change idea.
Quickscope did not need to be removed. Deathslinger already gave survivors counterplay with the whole reeling and chain breaking mechanic. Now Deathslinger is a killer with a power that has double counterplay on top of it being extremely punishing when you miss.
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@Pizzasauce said:
As someone who has never played Gunslinger, could I still have fun with him?
You would be better off playing Huntress or Trickster imo.
Deathslinger sits at a weird spot where he doesn't do anything better than either of them.
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It's not the killer's job to make sure you have long engaging chases. In fact given the current state of the game, it's the exact opposite. The killer has no time to waste on long chases.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2664741#Comment_2664741
Problem is that it got way harder to make those shots because of longer ADS. So right now it is just negative, because you are more likely to miss.
I wouldn't say it got harder. Trick shots that you could do as Deathslinger before are literally impossible now, because there's no way you'll ever line up a shot through a hole in a wall with the delay you have to shoot.
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Both the camping and tunneling suggestion are bad.
Killers often have valid reasons for being a near a hook and slowing down the speed because survivors force the killer to be the hook is going to get abused. A form of that was already tried and never made it to live.
So the first survivor a killer finds now is immortal and can just run at the killer because the killer can't kill them. That is 100% going to be abused. Also if other survivors are unable to rescue the guy on hook when he is in 2nd state, then too bad. Your teammates failed you and you died.
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There's not even a reason to pick Slinger over Trickster
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Deathslinger went from being a balanced killer who when mastered would dominate chases while still have counterplay options against (unlike nurse).
Then he got nerfed in every aspect he was good in so really surprising people aren't playing him.
Survivors just need to stop asking for every killer to be nerfed because they can't bother to learn play against or accept the killer player was good. All you are doing is removing variety then complaining that killers are playing the few good killers remaining.
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The only reason the perk isn't meta is that getting a good spot where the totem has good value is RNG.
You have good spots in main buildings that can turn an already strong building into an instant chase loss. But on the other hand you can get spawns where there are little to none LoS blockers making the perk not as good. Staying inside the zone just to block aura is not worth it most of the time and running it with CoH to counter Nurse's isn't worth it, because Nurse's isn't really meta atm either.
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If it was possible to keep survivors injured for an extended period of time, Blood Echo would be decent. But it's not unless you play Plague.