Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991412#Comment_3991412
I've got a whole thread about this, but the TL;DR would be this:
"Weaponising" DS is 100% trying to bait the killer into picking you up, and you cannot force the killer to do that. Any time someone talks about weaponising DS as thought it gives guaranteed value, they're talking about bodyblocking, not DS.
Not that relevant to the rest of the post, mind you, my points still stand regardless of how you feel about that specific take.
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991412#Comment_3991412
You can't weaponize DS because it requires the killer to activate it. If they don't press spacebar, you're slugged and the killer comes out ahead.
The killer is usually at a net loss, if they hit a survivor multiple times, then leave them slugged on the ground. It also ignores the fact that it's still an overall better action to pick up the survivor and risk the DS.
At least it is at my skill level, and considering my escape rate, I'm figuring I have to be at high MMR.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991184#Comment_3991184
Right, it adds more chances to the chase without them getting hooked.
Someone trying to weaponise DS will, well, fail, that's basically impossible these days unless the killer makes a mistake, but their goal is to avoid being hooked outright (or just to have fun, some people just like baiting stuns). Same with bodyblocking- they do it with Endurance because it allows them to not go down and not have to trade away a hook state.
That's also why bodyblocking has been fixed here. They can absolutely cancel their loss of collision… and their Endurance. They'd just go down here, it stops being to their benefit.All of this is besides the point, though. The point is, trying to weaponise being double-hooked is entirely dependant on how good the bonuses they're denying you getting are. A hook state is a valuable thing to trade, they need to be getting something substantial to make up for it and we don't know if that's actually going to be the case.
It could easily be that the bonuses are nice, and very helpful for the course of regular play, but they're not better than just getting a free hook state.
I really wish that everyone's escape rates were attached to their forums account.
Because I really just don't understand how you can tell everyone that DS is "basically impossible" to weaponize. I really want to know the context.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991153#Comment_3991153
?
What do any of these things have to do with my point…?
My point is, specifically only denying the killer the fresh hook bonuses MIGHT be worth trading away a hook state, but we can't say for sure until we see how good those bonuses are. If they're only of decent strength, it's not really worth the hook stage you're trading away.
People weaponise some anti-tunnel tools because they DON'T have to trade away their hook state to do it, at least if it's done effectively.Though as an aside, they're literally stopping post-unhook bodyblocking from being possible by removing collision, so that one's fixed.
Incorrect. People currently weaponize anti-tunnel tools because it adds more second chances to the chases. A survivor running at a killer with DS, doesn't actually think they have a guaranteed chase escape after the DS triggers. They know the killer is likely to eventually win the chase.
Likewise, there will be survivors that would absolutely weaponize being double hooked, because if the killer tries to actively avoid killing a survivor before 6 hook, then a double hooked survivor is fairly safe against being killed early. It would basically punish killers that "try to play nice".
And no one literally stopped post-unhook bodyblocking, because the collision removal is temporary. And survivors can purposely remove elusive early if they wanted to. A recently unhooked survivor could tap their medkit before their teammates 100% heal them, to allow the recently unhooked survivor to bodyblock early.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991145#Comment_3991145
A little, but they are giving up a hook state to do it.
I'd say we can't really say if that's a worthwhile trade until we've seen the numbers for what the bonuses are, personally.
- People are already weaponizing anti-tunnel perks, so it's already worth it for some people. It's the #1 killer complaint about anti-tunneling, and BHVR didn't care at all about it.
- Rule 2 of anti-tunneling is worded awkwardly, and it looks like even if the killer is at 8 hooks a 0 kills, if the most recently hooked survivor gets killed, penalty 2 still happens.
- The game really should detect if a survivor is purposely trying to bodyblock the killer, and remove all anti-tunneling protections if they are doing so. Maybe have the detection paused while the survivor is elusive, but survivors should not be purposely trying to weaponize their anti-tunneling perks, when the killer is actively trying to chase someone else.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991140#Comment_3991140
The penalty is only if you kill that survivor, to be fair. First hook → second hook only denies you the bonus for unique hooks.
Fine. I'll edit the post. It's still punishing the survivor by denying the bonus.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990537#Comment_3990537
Are you seriously going to complain that it's unfair to the killer when a survivor gives him a free down and hook?
It's not free when the killer gets a penalizes for hooking the same survivor twice, because they lose the reward for hooking a different survivor.
And survivor already weaponize anti-tunnel perks, and this gives them extra reasons to do so.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990570#Comment_3990570
It SOUNDS cumulative, which is kind of big... but it could just be weirdly worded. If it is 90 seconds per down, Im not really worried about that. Thats plenty of time to handle flashlight users and such.If a dev already commented and clarified on this, would love to see where that is.
It really looks like it's infinite unbreakable, after the 90 second timer fills up once, because the timer doesn't reset.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
Oh hey, one thing I just realized is that if everyone more or less gets a bbq-like effect, then I guess I don't really have much complaint in saying I can't find a new chase… hopefully…
I have no idea what that system will be like though.
It matters if the bbq-like effect can be blocked with lockers, perks, or items.
Because if the killer hooks someone, and sees zero survivors because they hopped in lockers, then that big reveal is really terrible.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989844#Comment_3989844
Then they die. They wouldn't have any protection left.
If a survivor has 1 hook state, and aggressively bodyblocks the killer, they instantly die if they get hooked again? Really?
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What happens if the most recently hooked survivor decides to aggressively bodyblock the killer after the elusive status wears off?
Because that sounds like survivors weaponizing the anti-tunnel feature.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/454770/developer-update-august-2025
Do things like distortion hide the reveal effect from the "fresh hook" thing?
The reveal effect really needs to be unblockable, except by the anti-tunnel mechanic.
Survivors should not be able to dodge this special reveal with lockers or perks.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989627#Comment_3989627
I mean, what's changed there?
Outside of the new system being considerably slower than any perk they could bring… what's new? They can still do that and it isn't any stronger or more accessible.
I agree that it's still annoying and still needs to be fixed… but survivors can't use THIS UPDATE to make that any more annoying. It's just unchanged.
That's a genuine question, it's not rhetorical. I'm asking you directly, what has changed regarding unhookable build shenanigans because of this update?
Literally the survivors being able to pick themselves up.
Currently, if a killer is forced to slug, they can proxy camp the slugged survivor, because a teammate eventually has to pick up the slugged survivor.Also, I think it’s awful that you think it’s fine for the slugging issues to “be the same” for the killer. It shouldn’t “be the same” for the killer. It should be a much improved killer player experience.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989610#Comment_3989610
I'm not telling you killer issues are fine, I'm telling you this new change doesn't affect killer issues.
I'd agree with you that certain forms of forced slugging are annoying to deal with as killer and it would be really nice to see something done because of it, but it's a leap to say that means survivors even CAN weaponise this new system, let alone that they'd be encouraged to. How can they possibly weaponise a system that takes this long to kick in?
Survivors were creating areas where they couldn’t be hooked, and would purposely run there when they were getting chased. And since survivors could pick themselves up, their teammates could just stay on generators.
And again, if it’s so very rare for killers to be forced to slug for extended periods of time, then it should be completely fine to give killers a basekit way to remotely hook a survivor after they’ve been slugged for a certain amount of time.
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If this means the mirror addons, tombstone addons, and infinite tier 3 addons are getting deleted, then I’m all for this rework.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989588#Comment_3989588
Alright, in order:
1: In those scenarios, wouldn't you be dropping that survivor and chasing someone else anyway? If you're waiting out the hook respawning instead, how often does that take 90 seconds? If it does take that long, aren't you throwing by waiting it out to begin with?
2: Same as above. You'd be dropping that survivor and chasing the sabotage user anyway, in most scenarios the survivor you dropped is getting picked up regardless.
3: This does not take 90 seconds.
4: This also does not take 90 seconds.
5: This is the same as the first two.It's not that these scenarios are "fine", it's that they aren't really relevant here. In three of the five you'd be dropping the survivor and focusing someone else anyway, so the survivor you dropped is probably getting back up again (& frankly this new system is a nerf in those scenarios because the survivors might be inclined to wait 90 seconds instead of picking their teammate up themselves), and in the other two 90 seconds is a ludicrous amount of time to secure your pickup.
I think you're not factoring in just how long 90 seconds is in these contexts. It's a long time in DBD.
For real, I’m not having this conversation again. I am just so so exhausted with hearing how important it is for survivor issues to be fixed, but being told that killer issues are “fine”.
This update has massive massive massive changes for survivors. The fact that killers get absolutely nothing to help fix their slugging issues, is absolutely ridiculous.
This just encourages survivors to weaponize the anti-slugging mechanic, just like they did back in the PTB that had basekit unbreakable.
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Just to clarify, I think it’s really awful BHVR only cares about slugging when it’s negatively affecting survivors.
It’s massively frustrating for killers, if they go through all the time and effort to knock a survivor to the ground, and then find out they literally can’t hook that survivor, and they basically wasted all that time.
And this update is making MASSIVE changes for the survivor player experience, so killers really should be getting a basekit way to deal with the slugging issues that negatively affect killers.Why did we spend so much time and effort to make sure the AFK crows never unfairly punish survivors, and yet it’s ok for anti-slugging to punish killers when the survivors weaponize it against the killers?
(the forums won’t let me edit my previous post)
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989575#Comment_3989575
To be fair, will it trigger in those situations?
90 seconds is a huge amount of time, I can't think of any time I was forced to slug a survivor for that long. Genuinely, can you think of any examples where a survivor would need to be slugged for almost half their total bleedout bar?
- There is only 1 hook in range, and it’s currently broken because of a sacrifice or the Breakdown perk
- A survivor sabotaged a hook while the killer was carrying a survivor, and now they have too much wiggle progress to hook
- A survivor is under an undropped pallet, and their teammates keep threatening the area, and the killer needs to chase them all away
- Same as #3, but involves flashlight or flashbangs, when the survivor isn’t near a wall
- Some places are just literal hook dead zones
And because we’ve literally had this conversation multiple times before, I don’t care how much you think these scenarios are fine. I know you think these scenarios are fine, and I don’t care.
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Why does anti slug trigger when the survivors force the killer to slug? Sometimes the killer literally can’t hook a survivor.
Killers really should be given a way to remotely hook a survivor after they’ve been slugged for 30 seconds., Or killers should be given something to prevent lose/lose situations where the survivors purposely create situations where they can’t be hooked, and then use their basekit unbreakable to pick themselves up.
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@TheProKiller said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988707#Comment_3988707
they won't remove it in my opinion
Why not? It's outdated, and people are demanding BHVR take valuable development time to fix issues with it. There have been SO MANY important bugs in this last major release. Outdated content involving achievements is about the least important thing in the entire game.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989187#Comment_3989187
I don't believe the desire to play Killer is increased or decreased substantially at all based on class strength over previous generations. All we are actually seeing this generation is people genuinely queuing for the role they want to play, because we have the solution of play while you wait.
On the old versions you had to make a firm decision to wait the 15 minutes queue to get a game as killer, now that isn't true. Instead of most players thinking "I cba to wait that long, I'll just play Survivor", people now queue killer, and play survivor between, and is a great feature.
The Sprint Burst on demand is silly, and the above compromise is a perfectly fine solution for vast majority of people... there is no reason to have this class be broken to help killer queue times. No matter how strong Survivor is, the fact is there are far more people proportionally who want duo killer compared to survivors to fill the 8 slots, and the only way to change that is if you make killer so monumentally unplayable that there is no point even bothering to queue at all... which is such a fundamentally flawed way of tackling the problem.
The play while you wait system solves the issue for the bulk of the player base, and the only people who genuinely miss out, are the people who stubbornly only want to play killer side... and I'm sorry to anyone who fits that description, but we all want to play killer... just cause you're a "killer main" doesn't make you more important than anyone else.
No. the solution should be giving survivors things that are too powerful for 1v4, so that both sides of the game have actual reasons to play 2v8.
Because of survivors get more stuff, and the killer queue times go down to about 8-10 minutes, then clearly the majority of people would still think playing killer is still worth doing, because the queue times would still be heavily tilted.
Because it’s not possible to have a scenario where the majority of players think killer is too miserable to play, and yet there’s still a 25+ queue time for killers (but a super quick queue time for survivors).
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@HexPectoPatronum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989092#Comment_3989092
That's a bad argument, sorry. You can't solve the queue times problem by bringing something so unbalanced into the game because it allows "wild and crazy elements for the survivor gameplay experience", while it's damn unhealthy for the killer gameplay experience (and I'm survivor main - about 70 % survivor / 30 % killer). The average queue times for killers are even 25-30 minutes and I'm usually able to play 2 or 3 survivor matches between 2 killer matches.
In 2v8, survivors have to deal with literally impossible chases, that happen when both killers target the same survivor.
So it should be fine for survivors to also get unfair stuff, especially when the killer queue times are 25+ minutes.
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@Elan said:
Current version of Fog vials is still controversal at most maps and a little bit more tweak might be done:
Iridescent add on: decrease extra opacity from 5 % to 2 %, remove downsides.
Recharges: the recharge between uses being removed and item being one-time use.
Franklin's demise: will now destroy vial upon disarming
Vial now has 120s cooldown before it can be used
Brown fog vial
→ size expands after 4s (was 2s)
→ duration reduced from 8s to 5s
→ opacity reduced from 33 % to 15 %
→ removal of scratch marks and aura surpressing
Green fog vial
→ size expands after 3s (was 1.5s)
→ duration reduced from 10s to 7s
→ opacity reduced from 33 % to 22 %
→ supresses auras (no longer surpresses scratch marks)
Blue fog vial
→ size expands after 2.5s (was 1.2s)
→ duration reduced from 12s to 9s
→ opacity reduced from 33 % to 26 %
→ surpresses auras and scratchmarks
We still have absolutely no idea what BHVR wants the fog vials to do.
We’ve shown screenshots where the fog was super easy to see through. We’ve shown screenshots where the fog was impossible to see through. But BHVR refuses to tell us which screenshots are intended, and which are bugged.
As in, we’ve literally got zero feedback on whether or not the “I can easily see through the fog” screenshots are bugged or intended.
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Slowdown was heavily nerfed because of all the free aura revealing killers get in 2v8, and because chases can end very quickly when 2 killers work together in 2v8.
As in, the 2v8 game mode is supposed to be a much faster pace than 1v4, so we don’t need heavy slowdown in 2v8.
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Killer queue times are 25+ minutes. We’re caring way too much about killers, and not enough about survivors.
The problem with Blast Mine is it takes way too long to get one ready. Guides should have more Blast Mines, and throw in some Chemical Traps too. Make the entire mode increasingly survivor sided, until the queue times are actually balanced.
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The problem isn't mending. The problem is the movement speed of feral frenzy is so fast, that Legion often hits 4+ survivors with the same feral frenzy.
Legion just needs the movement speed of feral frenzy to get heavily nerfed, so they aren't chaining so many hits with feral frenzy.
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Legion and Oni don't scale properly to 2v8.
In 1v4, Legion can struggle to hit 2 survivors in the same Feral Frenzy, if the survivors run in opposite directions. How on earth did we go from that, to Legion often getting 4+ hits in the same 2v8 Feral Frenzy? Feral Frenzy needs its movement speeds drastically reduced in 2v8.
In 1v4, Oni generally needs to hit survivors before the blood orbs happen, but in 2v8, he gets free blood orbs from his teammate. The number of blood orbs that drop from survivors should be reduced by at least 50% in 2v8.
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@ThatRyanB said:
Thanks for flagging this. The team is aware of this and looking into it.
To confirm in the meantime, this challenge can still be completed by equipping a Very Rare item and Visceral add-on and then escaping the Trial.
I don’t understand why development time is being spent on Tome challenges, if the long term goal is to remove the Tomes from the game.
It would be better to just remove the tomes, so the developers can have more time to fix the more important issues, like the visual problems that are still happening with the fog vials.
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Does this mean Last Stand has a normal vault animation, and works exactly like normal vaults, except for the stun effect?
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3986590#Comment_3986590
Yes, it was pretty powerful.
But they hit it with a sledgehammer imo.
I still think Guide is an extremely important class. It can help prevent a “6-gen” from occurring, because Guides always see the current cluster of generators, and people are more likely to help repair whatever generator the Guide is repairing (because that generator is highlighted to all the survivors).
And Wiretap + Blast Mine is a fun combo. And Blast Mine has really good synergy with AoE Sprint Burst, if the killer kicks the generator before chasing the survivors.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988036#Comment_3988036
I don't know because I don't have the perk (I'm also not interested in it) but, if I recall, the masquerade party pallets were a single rebuild and I believe the 2v8s are as well. I would hope they thought of those worse case scenarios.
Incorrect.
Party pallets could respawn multiple times, which meant that if a killer wasn't good at avoiding pallet stuns (and they didn't have enduring), then a bully SWF would just keep respawning party pallets altruistically, to see how many times they can stun the killer.
As solo q, I was sometimes doing "double party pallets", where I would hit the killer with a party pallet, use the event power to respawn the party pallet in the same location, then hit the killer again with the new party pallet.
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Sole Survivor + Clairvoyance is the current meta for lone wolf builds.
Lone wolf is an awful playstyle, that should be nerfed. But it's currently the best perk combo for survivors trying to escape streak.
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987766#Comment_3987766
Im going to suspect it is coming and will probably be added in some sort of way either via addon or something and cant go past tier 2, or they will make EW decay slowly when it comes close to 99% so u cant 99 it like you seem to show worry.
And yes his addons need rework but not mirrors not sure why you are so againts it since huntress, ghostface has similar addons where its aura reading advantage.
Michael in lore knows every location of survivor thats who he is in lore.
Scratched mirror is not viable and fully butchered ever since map offerings all myers mains hopped to vanity or perms tier 3 tomb addons.
Vanity is sadly not as good as you think it is, there are many counters to him that survivors can do and have time to run away
That is incorrect.
Huntress and Ghostface have aura reading that has very limited uptime. Myers mirror addons can literally have 100% uptime, with 0 cooldown, in a huge aura reading radius.
And it doesn't matter what the lore is, or if you think it has counterplay. It's not where modern DBD should be. Myers has gone far too long with outdated addons, and that needs to be fixed. Both tombstone addons also need to be heavily reworked.
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Myers should never get undetectable as basekit in tier 2, because he can 99% his tier 3.
He also should get all of his annoying addons completely reworked, which includes both mirror addons. If Clown’s Cigar Box and the Key’s Blood Amber both needed to be nerfed, then Myers should get his mirror addons nerfed too. It’s just way too much non-stop opponent aura reading, for modern DBD.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987291#Comment_3987291
I meant DBD specifically. I agree though that VHS was boring and I only played Teen.
I was not happy at all with the killer role when I first started the game.
My background is a lot of PvP games, which includes games where I’m shooting a lot of projectiles at moving targets, or throwing grenades at targets. Huntress is an absolutely miserable experience for new killer players. Her projectile is purposely clunky, and survivor movement in this game is absolutely ridiculous compared to every other PvP game I’ve ever played, and the FoV in this game is so bad that survivors would just disappear off my screen (much worse than any other PvP game I’ve played). And this game purposely hides survivor noises, even though the other PvP projectile games I play, either have visual footsteps, or the game just isn’t purposely hiding the noises.
So much of DBD game balance, revolves around the fact that the killer player experience is purposely clunky and inconvenient.
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@UnicornMedal said:
For what it's worth, nobody starts the game hating it. It's a fatigue that takes time to set in and most people quit before they really get too deep into that.
I literally hated VHS from day 1. Survivors getting basekit voice comms + map pings + survivors getting weapons to “fight back” = I hated the game on day 1.
I also hated the killer role in TCM, starting on day 1. I would play the survivor role, but I never wanted to queue as killer.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3986629#Comment_3986629
It's a Clown problem not a haste problem. Clown wasn't an issue until they made activating the yellow bottles completely free.
It’s also a haste stacking problem, because people saw new videos with builds like Batteries Included/Machine Learning/Rapid Brutality/Save the Best for Last, and decided to copy it.
As in, the haste stacking builds weren’t popular until the Clown changes happened, when content creators started making clickbait videos with haste stacking builds, and people started copying those builds.
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@Deathwish4231 said:
Well Jester, the obvious fix would be to revert to the original way the offerings worked for any of them that contain multiple maps like ichorous loam and Mcmillians, while keeping the 20% chance on single-map offerings like RPD, Midwitch, haddonfield etc, to make every single token around about a 20% chance at getting ANY specific map, not 20% for the ones everyone complains about and 1% for the ones NOBODY EVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT.
Its beyond actionable, in fact I'd go as far as to say it is blatantly obvious to me how to fix the situation, and that it clearly NEEDS to be fixed in the first place. So maybe I should be working there and not whoever decided 1% chance at getting a NEW map was a good idea?Map offerings should never be made more powerful than they are. In fact, they really should be removed from the game entirely.
Game balance is infinitely more important than game achievements.
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Game balance should never be affected by achievements. If map offerings are bad for game balance, they should be removed, or stay nerfed.
There should never be a scenario where map offerings are made more powerful, just to help people get achievements, since that action would affect game balance.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3986826#Comment_3986826
This is so very true! Also, there are so many departments that come under the word "developer" - do we expect a project manager to be playing at high MMR, does it matter whether they do or not?
Understanding game mechanics is also a big part of understanding the game, having that ability does not correlate with player ability, same as design ability does not correlate with player ability.
There are many of us who do play the game on live, a few of us are also high MMR (we see the numbers!), does it make any difference to our actual jobs? Nope not in the slightest, because our understanding of the game does not change.
I think the main difference is DBD tries so hard to hide MMR from players, that it really just doesn’t feel like DBD cares about balance at high MMR.
For example, we were told there was a focus group for the Trickster rework. How many people in that focus group are in the top 5% of MMR? Are any of them in the top 5% of MMR, or is that demographic just not being represented at all?
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How are the queue times this bad? I thought the issues were fixed?
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To get back on topic, BHVR really needs to get rid of haste stacking.
Because it is completely ridiculous when Clown uses builds like Batteries Included/Machine Learning/Rapid Brutality/Save The Best For Last.
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Guide was by far the most powerful class in the last 2v8. If multiple Guides were hooked at least once, and were repairing generators as a group, the generators got repaired super fast.
And yeah, I get it that solo q doesn't always coordinate like that. But in the games where the Guides followed each other around, the generator speeds were way too fast.
Source: I always picked the Guide class last 2v8.
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@nakedcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3986377#Comment_3986377
Idk what a ‘grace period’ is in your eyes but you aren’t hearing me. Let me try it another way.
The Facts:
Ghoul released April 2. His first adjustments occurred April 17. That’s two weeks. Nothing that occurred prior to April 2 counts because that was PTB or immediately after PTB before the killer was accessible to anyone. He was not changed at all between April 2 and April 16.
Fog Vials released July 29. They were nerfed 9 days later (August 6). They were nerfed again 8 days after that (August 14). And none of this counts what happened to them during PTB or between PTB and release because they were changed during that time period too—just like Kaneki. But we aren’t counting that time for either feature (killer or item). This invalidates your bizarre 25 changes claim thing. Kaneki did not receive 25 nerfs on April 17.
My point: the devs gave Kaneki two weeks before making any adjustments to him, and those were mostly inconsequential nerfs and a couple of bug fixes (but remember the worst bugs are still there. Well they basically said kidnap tech was a bug then it wasn’t a bug… their current stance is that it’s a feature now but they said it was a bug at first).If you consider a grace period a month then neither got that before receiving changes. If you consider it 2-3 weeks then Kaneki technically had a grace period before receiving changes. But regardless of what you consider a grace period, Fog Vials were not given a grace period comparable to what Kaneki (or SpringTrap if you’d like me to do that one next, or Conviction if you’d like me to do that one next too ;) ) were given.
My point: the devs obviously give more time for a killer to find its footing despite how busted it is than a survivor’s item or perks.
The end.
Ghoul's first adjustments happened on launch day, and it does count. Survivors complained about Ghoul during the PTB, and changes happened as a result. And the changes that happened two weeks from launch date, were also PTB changes, that weren't ready at launch date. And it took two weeks for the changes to happen, because it took that long to code the changes. It wasn't because there was a two week grace period.
And technically, by your logic, the Fog Vial changes "don't count" because the PTB changes haven't all been implemented yet. As in, BHVR is still trying to fix the bugs that existed in the PTB.
You keep refusing to acknowledge the fact that BHVR said there often isn't enough time to fix PTB issues for launch date, and the main purpose of the hotfixes is to implement the PTB changes that weren't ready by launch date.
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@BbQz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3986382#Comment_3986382
I was afraidI was afraid my last post was a little too subtle so let me clarify.
No, they shouldn't allow StreetWise and other bugged perks to have a grace period… They should be kill switched immediately. But notice how you didn't mention that spring trap wasn't killswitched or should have with him being invisible and having his blood stain not matchup where his killer was looking. I don't believe bugs should have Grace periods, but if they're fine letting certain bugs in the game play out while they take time to fix it. Why not others? The patterns shows that survivors get killswitched pretty quickly with only a very few situations where Killers get kill switched
What exactly are you arguing? That any bug, of any severity, should be kill switched?
Which means you think fog vials should be kill switched, because they currently have opacity bugs?
@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3986382#Comment_3986382
To be fair, the way they use the kill switch is strange often times. Sometimes they'll hop on it immediately, while other times they'll let a bug slide a patch or two. The issue with green glyphs comes to mind immediately since it was used to gain max value out of Merciless Storm.
I think this is why BHVR finally said they are going to rework the kill switch criteria, and then actually tell us what the kill switch criteria is. I honestly have no idea what the criteria has been so far.
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@BbQz said:
I love seeing killers cope that clown is totally fine with unlimited 15% haste with no perks. When things like MfT was game breaking. Ghouls first adjustment which also fixed bugs and game him a minor buff was two weeks to fix, invisible spring trap and mismatched bloodstain took a few weeks to fix but streetwise perk bug got Kill switched almost immediately. Fog viles lasted a week. Then a second week to double nerf. The is astounding. And of course now that the status que is clearly set with well defined patterns killers will claim "No! We definitely don't believe in grace periods!" With the unsaid (for you). It's kinda a joke.
You conveniently ignored the fact that BHVR absolutely did not want to kill switch Streetwise, and only did so after that was an absolutely massive amount of complaints from players on both sides of the game.
You’re also ignoring the fact that grace periods should never apply to the kill switch. How exactly would that work? Players would “wait and see” if the game-breaking bug is really a problem?
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@nakedcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3986366#Comment_3986366
Well Ghoul was initially adjusted some during PTB but so were fog vials so that doesn’t really count. After his release (April 2nd) his first nerfs came approximately two weeks later (April 17). That’s still much longer than the fog vials were out before any changes occurred. And mind you the Ghoul received some buffs during those changes too. I’m not going to list them all but one thing I distinctly remember was his tentacle aura was visible when he used his Kagune leap, that was taken away April 17 which is a bug fix I think but also a buff. Obviously he wasn’t really nerfed because BHVR wanted to sell an overpowered license killer but my point is that he had a much longer ‘grace period’ than Fog Vials. On top of that the Ghoul still has bugs (kidnap tech, the ability to freeze survivors when they’re dropping pallets still) and a few other issues that need to be worked out.
Your point is invalid.
Ghoul had a giant list of changes before the grace period started. He was overall made weaker, between PTB and the start of the grace period.
As in, the grace period happened AFTER he was overall nerfed. The fog vials haven’t stabilized yet, because BHVR hasn’t even fixed all the bugs that existed since the PTB.
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@nakedcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3986336#Comment_3986336
But nobody gave Fog Vials a grace period. They were nerfed at least twice after a week. You weren’t saying give them a grace period then. I remember because I saw your username all up and down the forums screeching for them to be nerfed. You’ve changed your tune now that people are talking about Clown (and Kaneki) though. Interesting. 🤔 I do agree with your point that it’s hypocritical to complain about MFT but be ok with Clown. But MFT is a dead perk so no killers are complaining about it now because they got it nerfed like they wanted.
I’ve literally said there should never be a mandatory grace period for anything, before changes are made.
As in, it was always fine that Ghoul had a bunch of nerfs before the grace period started. I never wrote a post saying Ghoul should have had a mandatory grace period before any changes were made. It didn’t happen. -
@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3986336#Comment_3986336
The double standard is from the devs themselves. They are the ones who gave us the expectation that changes won't be made until a length of time has passed to get enough data and feedback to make a decision. Then they applied this standard only to killer while insta nerfing survivor things.
Ghoul literally got 25 changes before the grace period started. Springtrap also got nerfed immediately on release day.
There was never an expectation that killer stuff needed a mandatory grace period before any changes are made.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3986323#Comment_3986323
If you're looking for double standards, you're looking in the wrong place.
We've already covered the ground of "when does haste break the game?" And the answer for when "free, infinite haste" is game breaking is 3%.
Because, with this new clown buff, we've completely turned 180 on every reason that MfT was nerfed. The two loudest reasons were "3% of free infinite haste breaks the game" and "it stacks with hope, haste stacking is broken".
Haste stacking already had the mask removed when the devs actually listened and announced they were removing all haste stacking. Then suddenly those same people realized they were going to be affected by losing killer haste stacking and screamed so loud the devs pulled the plug on it immediately.
Now, were seeing that "well, 12%+ haste that you can use infinitely is perfectly fine, just give it more time".
Please.
The honest answer here is that people want it to be "ok" this time because it's killer haste, and survivors should be treated differently. Period.
……Or we can admit that BOTH those situations are double standards.
As in it’s a double standard to demand immediate killer nerfs, but also demand for mandatory grace periods before nerfing survivor stuff.
And it’s ALSO a double standard to complain about MFT, but also think it’s ok for Clown to have a much higher uptime on haste boosts.
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This is why it’s a double standard, when people say BHVR should have done a “wait and see” grace period before nerfing fog vials.How many survivors said BHVR should have done a “wait and see” before nerfing Ghoul? How many survivors said BHVR should have done a “wait and see” before nerfing new Clown?
Survivors are always demanding for killer nerfs to happen immediately, and then getting upset if they don’t get a huge grace period before survivor nerfs happen. It’s a bad double standard.