Coffee2Go
Coffee2Go
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958743#Comment_3958743
The killer has no more right to turn on a hacking tool if they somehow knew they were hitting a SWF then a group of soloq players on meme builds would have the right to turn on a hacking tool because they hit a Nurse on a full meta build kill streak.
Thats my point just add a machine learning system that prevents any of that, hacking thing needs to be adressed to, i read a wonderful post about how it should be fixed by a person they seem to know their deal.
I know my deal with machine learning since i am majoring ML and Neural networking
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958733#Comment_3958733
Are you the type of person that tells its users "this is okay" and then go ahead and use it or are you the type of person who will still go with your own moral compass and consider maybe its not okay maybe its wrong.Lets take an example of a minecraft server hypixel, they allow certain mods that enter the so called "gray zone" and yes gray zones still exists no matter what.I have no knowledge of minecraft.
You're going to need to be a lot more explicit in your moral framework if you want this to be a philosophy discussion.
The game provides both sides with a difficulty slider if they wish to take it. You can play Nurse, Blight, etc with full meta build, or you can play a lower tier killer and bring no addons. Survivors can enter a map with full stacked commodious toolboxes or medkits in SWF, or they can be paired up by the match maker, bring no items, and run meme builds.
I personally don't play any of the overpowered builds because I don't find them enjoyable.
However, I don't believe any other player should or needs to play in the manner I do if they don't enjoy it. They can play the game within the guidelines laid out by BHVR. If they say its not cheating, then its not cheating.
If you think the game might be better or worse without certain elements they are open to discussion, but that's a much different topic than cheating.
Just because company says that its okay does not mean its okay by human logic.It sounds like you are confusing morality with your own personal preferences for what you want the game to be.
Okay thats all i wanted to hear that you dont like playing like that and think players shouldnt play like that.
But using addons and inside game designs is totally fine by me unless they stack them based off of their use of comms
My moral compass tells me to not use comms and rely on that to stack perks no matter the killers
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958743#Comment_3958743
Apologies for jumping in, but are you likening playing with friends to genuine hacking?
Im just trying to see something from my own amusement, since at this point comms in a avg sized map with right perks can give SWF an edge similar to what hacking does since both are external
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958733#Comment_3958733
You are arguing morality over playing with friends in a video game?
Actually just wondering now where the persons moral compass sits, and if killers were to toggle external hacking tools for their advantages too ONLY againts SWFs is that also okay
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958713#Comment_3958713
To get back to you about chat tools, no its not okay and it will never be okay, its unfair external tool that is in the gray zone between considered cheating and being suspicious.There's no grey zone. BHVR has said, repeatedly, that its fine.
At this point what is there to stop killers who dont run meta killer to using external cheating tools? Its basically the same then as using chat tools?The difference is the company that is in charge of saying what is cheating and what is not, says it is okay, and the other is not okay.
What about survivors that simply dont have any friends and dont want to play in premades just to win, they will also run external cheating tools?I've never played in a SWF and primarily play survivor. If the game was literally designed just for me I'd rip SWFs out of the system entirely, but the game isn't designed just for me and BHVR is absolutely fine with friends playing together and using chat tools.
To a small degree MMR cleans it up, to a larger degree it falls in with all the other sweaty things people can do.
So again i ask you, do you see any difference between a hacking external tool and a chat tool external method to know location of killerAnd as I've been saying from the beginning, its not a cheating tool because the company says people are absolutely allowed to do it.
What does your moral compass tell you?
Like this is not a trick question i just want to know the answer to how people think so i dont waste my time in trying to explain what is wrong and what is okay.
Are you the type of person that tells its users "this is okay" and then go ahead and use it or are you the type of person who will still go with your own moral compass and consider maybe its not okay maybe its wrong.
Lets take an example of a minecraft server hypixel, they allow certain mods that enter the so called "gray zone" and yes gray zones still exists no matter what.
Just because company says that its okay does not mean its okay by human logic.
Their reason and answer might lie in money status and growth.
Hypixel allows users to run certain mods for their skyblock and prompts like removing keyinputdelay.
So what about other users that get beaten because of that just because a company allows it does not mean its morally okay.
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@jedimaster505 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958700#Comment_3958700
You and other killer mains keep stating your opinion that SWF is far stronger than killer when this is far from correct. The idea that SWF > Killer is a myth that has persisted since 2016 when the game was genuinely survivor-sided with infinite loops and what-not. It is no longer the case by a long shot. However, every killer will go up against teams that are stronger than them and feel that it is "hard". But that's just because most killers getting stomped by SWF squads (or solo teams they falsely assume are SWF squads) are low to average MMR, yet every killer main wants to believe they are a high MMR killer main just cause they copied TrueTalent's "OP killer build" on YouTube and spent 20-50 hours becoming quite average on their favorite killer.
I have stated that the system should only prevent literal mmr exploitation and bypass even when running meta killers and perks on them.
The system wont eliminate the use of SWF, the whole point of SWF is to have comms right?
But is it fair the game does not have any prevention tool for them if they decide to stack perks which then can be used to guarantee a win.
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@jedimaster505 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958700#Comment_3958700
You and other killer mains keep stating your opinion that SWF is far stronger than killer when this is far from correct. The idea that SWF > Killer is a myth that has persisted since 2016 when the game was genuinely survivor-sided with infinite loops and what-not. It is no longer the case by a long shot. However, every killer will go up against teams that are stronger than them and feel that it is "hard". But that's just because most killers getting stomped by SWF squads (or solo teams they falsely assume are SWF squads) are low to average MMR, yet every killer main wants to believe they are a high MMR killer main just cause they copied TrueTalent's "OP killer build" on YouTube and spent 20-50 hours becoming quite average on their favorite killer.
Where did i ever state high end tier SWFs are the problem, like i mainly stated you can fully bypass the current MMR system by playing in SWF which translates to boosting which should be a bannable offense because it just simply does not make sense.
I will ask you again:
Jimmy boots up DBD, he has bad time with casual random lobbies as a survivor he decides to ask his friends to play with him, they enter vc or stick to texting, they end up winning majority of their games that are not againts meta killers, meta killers probably still will struggle because comms = everything and will always be in every single game.
Asymmetrical genre is supposed to not have a way of constant winning its supposed to have every match being unique and new way of learning and adapting and not just steamrolling through matches because of comms.
So should Jimmy be given a PAT on the head? No.
Should a system exist in place to counter that way of boosting mmr and having no way to counter comms and players who stack perks just because they work due to chat tools? Yes.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958689#Comment_3958689
Bold claim? Buddy its their job duty role thats what they get paid to do.Actually they primarily relay information between the community and the design team. None of them are the voice of BHVR.
They also have quite a number of posts to deal with every day. If all it took was saying 'look at my issue, it's special', everyone would do it and they probably wouldn't have much time for anything else.
This is a community discussion forum, not a ask the devs anything forum. It's not even a suggestion forum, that though they do have if you wish to offer suggestions.
Chat tools are neither okay or fairBHVR has repeatedly said they are okay.
The escape rates for SWFs aren't anything astronomical either so their data doesn't indicate the problem people seem to perceive exists.
First of all, it is their job still you are just trying to explain their roles in wider terms, they still get paid to spread information and relay information as they should, they can also not spread it if they choose not to and they can choose to not even respond and be silent about things and yet still get paid by each month lol.
To get back to you about chat tools, no its not okay and it will never be okay, its unfair external tool that is in the gray zone between considered cheating and being suspicious.
At this point what is there to stop killers who dont run meta killer to using external cheating tools? Its basically the same then as using chat tools?
What about survivors that simply dont have any friends and dont want to play in premades just to win, they will also run external cheating tools?
So again i ask you, do you see any difference between a hacking external tool and a chat tool external method to know location of killer
No wonder why there are so many hackers in the game, when the game is not even an asymmetrical pvp game.
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@jedimaster505 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958100#Comment_3958100
You're not speaking the truth. Overall SWF squads lose way more than killers, even the 4 man comp squads at high MMR.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/F3D1GTZNC0IC/deadbydaylightstats48percent.jpg
See, told you it would be a rough rounded number like that, my simulations shown 30-30-30% but i guess its in the 40%.
Proves my point that this will just go in loop and circles until they add a way for machine learning to dynamically balance each game unique based off of how players have played their matches in history.
Until then people who dont play in swfs will have bad stats and then joining premade they will just bump up their MMR higher and get boosted completely ruining balance in this game, either devs are oblivious to this or enforce this so they have something to do by constantly balancing back and forth.
Either way its unfair, proves my point anyways
Machine learning will prevent this to happen and give the devs a better insight how stats are supposed to be.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958660#Comment_3958660
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958617#Comment_3958617
Its in your duty to do so, so i ask of you to do something and act.Well, that's a bold claim.
Do enlighten me what do you guys in the team have planned for people who are using that for their advantage? Would prefer if my questions are not ignored since all the devs seem to be the same and dont really give an answer to what can be done to make SWFs become equal footing to casual players randoms?BHVR has been pretty clear over the years that people using chat tools are absolutely okay. The game has options of sweatiness on both sides.
Already caught one person on forum stating their games are unbearable with randoms which apperently means that they refuse to play the game because they simply cant properly play the game unless they use texting or vc for their advantage.SWFs aren't a new thing, neither are players quitting the game.
Bold claim? Buddy its their job duty role thats what they get paid to do.
All they have been doing it saying congrats and mainly respond to most utterly useless discussions on the forums.
Chat tools are neither okay or fair and killer no matter how sweaty does not have any external factors like them to use for their advantage, even running meta ability killers is not viable, just forces player hands to main those killers because the game is simply not a true asymmetrical genre game.
If it was it would have methods and ways to nullify chat tools to advantage.
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@Mandy said:
The anti-face camp is not going to prevent camping, preventing player agency is never the intention with any system - it's giving counterplay to something. You're getting face camped and the bar is going up, you will be able to get off the hook….which if the killer was face-camping previously you couldn't have done without a trade, now you don't need to trade with the survivor on the hook.
If a killer wants to camp a survivor they can of course do so - we are not removing that, what we're doing is trying to give the survivors tools to counter it - so you can unhook yourself, take chase etc. If the killer is camping, the other survivors should be doing generators, making the killer effectively lose the match.
Mandy you seriously going to allow people treating each other like this? Its better if you explain to them what my idea is about so people stop downvoting and calling me out on something else entierly?
Whats the point of you not standing by someone to avoid further conflict and arguing on forums.
Its in your duty to do so, so i ask of you to do something and act.
2 people so far have decided to terminate their account who have seen my vision and idea in the wider terms, they both had decent stats and played both sides.
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@Mandy said:
The anti-face camp is not going to prevent camping, preventing player agency is never the intention with any system - it's giving counterplay to something. You're getting face camped and the bar is going up, you will be able to get off the hook….which if the killer was face-camping previously you couldn't have done without a trade, now you don't need to trade with the survivor on the hook.
If a killer wants to camp a survivor they can of course do so - we are not removing that, what we're doing is trying to give the survivors tools to counter it - so you can unhook yourself, take chase etc. If the killer is camping, the other survivors should be doing generators, making the killer effectively lose the match.
What will be done for the survivors in a full pre-made team purposly using this re-work in their advantage to gen rush?
Since people in a squad will have real time comms such as texting, voice chat.
Killer cant counter play that even if they try only meta ability ones can which makes the game fully one sided choice.
Do enlighten me what do you guys in the team have planned for people who are using that for their advantage? Would prefer if my questions are not ignored since all the devs seem to be the same and dont really give an answer to what can be done to make SWFs become equal footing to casual players randoms?
Already caught one person on forum stating their games are unbearable with randoms which apperently means that they refuse to play the game because they simply cant properly play the game unless they use texting or vc for their advantage.
No perk in game can counter real time comms between swfs.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958272#Comment_3958272
Yes, those types of data systems are used internally. A few people have even dropped small insights on how their internal data aggregation works, IIRC Peanits (i think?) talked about it very briefly before years ago in a topic. Players aren't doing that with the data, nor are they going to be able to identify any of the important contextual data nor are they likely to even address data points as ranges rather than fixed number averages. They want to have numbers to prop their arguments about whatever complaint du jour they have that requires those numbers.
The net result, again, is that the data will be weaponized far more than it will be used for genuine insight, like it always has been. It will be afforded the insight the end user was already going to attribute to it regardless of what it actually represents. Like it is every single time they post any data. When they release data its usually "for fun," as a neat little perspective in the overall game outside our perspectives.
We need to be able to accept it as just that if we want more, otherwise you'll have to stick with curated proportional statistic aggregation like Nightlight. That doesn't tell the whole story either, but at least in BHVR's eyes they don't have personal responsibility to the data nor players' personal opinions about said data.
With that knowledge i think even BHVR team is by definition struggling to man handle it them selves which could be the reason why the game state is what it is right now and has been a long time.
Like even if they release the stats to the public they really wont do any good which is my concern too, what also concerns me is i think the current stats are fairly balanced around 30% - 30% - 30% and so on, its not like it was before reaching sky high 50-60% solo q casuals.
That would make sense why the changes have kinda stopped and have been slowed down ever since, the changes have been more drastic in past.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958248#Comment_3958248
The stats have always been chaotic, for the reasons I listed above. Almost every single data point is the combination of multiple other data points, many of which also have +/- variances. There will always be context missing from any released statistics, because they would have to be insane to try to release every supplementary data point variable that provides the necessary context. The data is useful as insight toward trends within the game, but it takes a lot of extra data for it to turn numbers into statistics. Due to the fact so many in the userbase are unwilling to accept the game can be anything other than their own personal experience, its both a fool's errand and actively fuels discord within the community as people weaponize any scrap they can get their hands on.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958240#Comment_3958240
This is the crux of the issue. People make their minds up before they see the numbers, then try to either use the numbers to justify their opinion or dismiss the numbers and fall back to their lived experience. The numbers are supposed to be the "other half" of the lived experience (I.E the average of the lived experience of every other player) for you to help piece together what happens outside your own perspective. Unfortunately they are hardly used for that purpose.
Machine learning system would categorize that data in a heart beat honestly like seriously those little system designs are insane and used widely by banks, companies to manage some extreme encrypted systems but in dbd it would just be used to properly balance the game widely across all mmr variant players.
Look it wont be easy but its not impossible, my friend says we wont really see this system in place for another 5 years due to how devs dont want to do it because its just not a thing yet but its possible if whoever on BHVR team is in charge for AI.
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@Pit_Bull_Love said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958248#Comment_3958248
Agree, I wish they would release the stats. I even said earlier, I'd love to see what they were for each year.
Yes, we can't go by 6 year old stats, I was just saying that BHVR did release those stats once before. I thought is was like 4 years ago, but turns out it was 6. But as someone who has played since the beginning, killers have always said that they play against nothing but 4 man swfs. And when BHVR released those stats, killers said they weren't correct.
Playing solo, I have been accused of being on a 4 man several times, and then called a liar when we said we weren't. Just because a couple of survivors know how to go in for an end game unhook, or know to go down at a pallet, etc doesn't mean anything.
Games vary one match to the next? Of course they do, mmr isn't real or it's just really broken.
Yeah i wont lie i do also often get matches too as a survivor since i solo q almost always since my buddies usually have work and uni hence nobody to play with much but yeah these matches feel godly and go smooth very fast gen rush and we help each other unhook nice synergy.
Its just so random the whole mmr system where its unpredictable you wont know if you will get placed with some lucky casuals that escaped by mercy of killers or left alone never helped other survivors etc.
Anyways i would love to have updated stats and behind the scenes knowledge of their way of balancing further and plans.
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Even if the stats were 2 or 3 years old they are not viable to go by and win in an argument that SWFs are still not that common.
Like why cant we as a whole group of players demand an updated statistics each year or half a year if its too demanding for them.
I still feel like BHVR is hiding stats from us to not lose partial playerbase because the stats are way more chaotic than they were 6 years ago, and 6 years ago people did not play with friends that often if my memory serves me correct people despised buying dbd and playing dbd because before the game was not that enjoyable for most.
On steam i bought the game in 2018 and booted it few times played 2hours max did not touch it since last year but on ps5.
Anyways back to stats, there is just no way that my matches as a killer are so different from one another, one match i can play casually and still win 3/4 kills at 3 gens left and then there are games i have to sweat tryhard patrol the best possible make no mistake hits just to get 1 down.
Its either that in those matches i play with 2 randoms + 2 premades or its 3 or 4 premades because its just impossible they know my every movement location at all times i run my michael ew 1 build to just jumpscare and chase people mainly hook and spread around and patrol.
So majority of aura perks dont work on me it makes no sense
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@Fuzzycube said:
Lower MMR SWF groups can be even worse than solo survivors because they’re often so altruistic they’ll happily throw the entire game if it means saving a teammate, sometimes staying grouped up together the entire march.
That is also true, usually happens when a mobility meta killer is putting pressure into tunneling to not lose againts gen rush.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957952#Comment_3957952
Who is saying they always face SWF comp squads? You accusing everyone else of claiming this is the only “false narrative” I see here.
Apperently some people think that me and @Sjady are saying every match is againts Full premade swf, i myself stated its only about 60% of times, but it scales very unstable due to people purposly deranking them selves and then you end up with high end players in low rank lobbies againts casual killers and so on.
Problem also is that when the killer gets 3 kills steadily he gets put againts high playtime and high mmr survivors which are mostly in a full premade using comms.
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@mecca said:
They balance the skill floor for survivor there. With killer, it is balanced so beginners can win consistently.
Thats the problem the game is far too different than what asymmetrical genre is supposed to stand for.
This is such a wrongful way to balance things as devs they need machine learning or atleast a system that is close to it that maintains it in real time.
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Whoever is downvoting me, tell me why do you hate the fact that im speaking the truth about why survivors in squads keep winning because of their comms and playtime?
We both know its because the game is not a true asymmetrical game even if its stated and sold as one?
And we both know the reason why you downvote me is because if devs do add the system of true asymmetry you will complain how the game is too hard and even with your knowledge and 6 year playing you wont be able to predict each match because it will be different you will have to rely on your own skill and your teams by exploring the existing maps figuring out what place to go to when the layout shifts and changes.
You do realize the game will be perfect 1:1 ratio of how it would feel like if a real killer is chasing you and hunting to kill by placing you in a full different layout where you need quick thinking, reflexes
Dead by Daylight is an online asymmetric multiplayer survival horror video game.
Wikipedia 2025
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@Sjady said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958090#Comment_3958090
Those who downvote represent the current state of the game. They categorically reject any idea of change, despite the solid arguments and facts presented. They're caught in a mental battle where it seems like you must choose a side: "Are you for killers or for survivors?!" When in reality, we couldn’t care less about these divisions. What we're after is simply helping and offering ideas that could balance the game, based on concrete arguments.
In the end, downvoting becomes just a subtle way to respond with rage, a form of "ragebait" in response to well-founded arguments.
I just want devs to make the game into a proper asymmetrical pvp game that the only skill that is required is quick adaptation to the map randomness, dynamic perk values, unable to use real voice comms for advantage.
All of that has to be polished first before perks can be nerfed and buffed in the first place by devs.
Also people seem to forget what is coming by the end of 2025 or start of 2026 to DBD.
Its a system which will show perk loadout to fellow casual randoms inside a lobby which means now random survivors can also see if they will carry any duplicate perks which will then show that killer is absolutely slept on lol.
But again im just pointing out a fact that high tier survivors win because they have PLAYED the game long enough to know the predictable patterns and because the game has no real RNG on top of their exploitation of using voice chat to rig the game in their advantage basically giving them 5th perk that cant be countered.
So many variables and nobody seems to care or look at the direction of a real problem.
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@Sjady said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958084#Comment_3958084
I think you're mistaken about the perception of the game. Saying that it's full of casual players is far from the truth. The majority of players here are tryhards, giving their all in every match. They sweat, fight for every second, and at the slightest mistake, they'll start insulting you. When the match ends, it's a flood of hate, sometimes even aimed at your family and descendants. Some will even go as far as threatening your life. Maybe it's time to ask: are we really playing the same game? Because that's definitely not what we experience on a daily basis.
They are bunch of tryhards who simply mock the killer every given time unless the killer ends up dominating the game, then they DC or simply go AFK.
I would like to know if anyone here that downvotes my replies can answer my simple question.
Why is that when i play as a survivor i never get a killer that mocks and bullies the players?
Only occassion is ghostface because its a known fact in community that its a hybrid joke funny killer that can crouch spam, but that to me is not mocking because he just wont spam crouch on hook?
I get way more people that mock the killer than what killer do to survivors, usually a killer will just wipe them off the board and kill all instantly.
Slugging? Yeah i only seen it happen many times if a survivor is the one mocking and provoking the killer first with having certain shirtless outfits or other goofy outfits, they usually just save them for the last lol?
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@Sjady said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958088#Comment_3958088
It's truly ridiculous. Earlier, I had a perfect game with a 'Myers P2' and an anti-loop build. I didn’t even have any perks to slow down the game, yet I absolutely dominated the match, both in terms of macro and micro. I had perfect targeting, perfect chasing, and optimal zoning. Despite all that, I ended the game with just one generator left, even though each chase was wrapped up in 15 seconds, maximum. It’s completely insane and incomprehensible. We're talking about flawless performance, and yet the game didn’t take that effort into account. It’s frustrating to see that even when all your calls are perfect, you end up winning with just one generator left because the game lets teams rush gens at a ridiculous speed.
This right here is what im talking about <--- the current system is only pumping stats for the devs who are humans who have duties they cant be there and constantly nerf and buff perks and figure out ways to balance the mmr system.
The game is full of scattered players both casuals and premades and high tier players.
Majority of games you wont get with true raw casuals because they simply sadly play like NPCs dont utilize pallets or vaults or jukes, they dont want to do gens they run around the map and thats about it.
Thats the sad reality of this game that the devs are probably forced out of their hand to have these nerfs in places for perks because they dont want to lose those players but they still leave because they will stay and always will be clueless unless they play with friends and have comms and get external help which DOES NOT REQUIRE SKILL
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@Sjady said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958074#Comment_3958074
Honestly, I don’t even think the staff is truly aware of the game’s problems. There aren't any truly experienced players on the team to explain the problems in a clear and honest way.
People like Otzdarva, who could really push things forward, prefer to take the easy route by flattering the staff. Streamers like him, well-known in the community, probably have a contract with them, which explains why he smooths things over, minimizes all the game’s issues, and makes people believe that everything can be fixed just by improving players' skills. He plays it safe, not wanting to risk losing his contract, community, and revenue. It’s understandable, but the truth is, this complicit silence is keeping the game stagnant. If nothing changes, part of the responsibility also lies with these influential figures.
Yeah after all money makes the world spin or so they say, its a bummer since if they were to add this system or play around with it they would end up being the first Asymmetrical pvp/pvpe game that has done this for its community fully adding randomized rng not relying on anything just fully being upredictable where even if you have skill as a player you will not be able to know where to go, if people want true skill to shine then it would have to be based off of how quick and fast players adapt to the map they have been given.
But thats now going too in depth something that they would need more budget for
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By the calculations of AI and me providing information about the game the AI calculated a constant 60% chances of getting put againts said SWFs, the chances of having full random casual lobby is 10-15% and then it scales.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957968#Comment_3957968
What's so funny ? they've been balancing around killer vs SWF for years at this point, and they've made solo queue very weak in the process… the problem is 4 man SWF makes up a small % of the playerbase, and the majority are casuals playing with friends not exactly comp players
Yeah but those casuals still have comms they can spread around and just call out that the killer got ditched and its coming to them now and it will go like that in circles.
They might not be as fast and agile as real high end squads but they still are way above the difficulty rating compared to regular casuals who are not in a party.
Like people who downvote me probably play with those exact friends and do exact things and clip on people post it on tik tok/yt shorts and make fun of casual killers that are wrongfully put againts them just because casual killers end up killing npc like casual survivors?
Like come on now lol, those type of people need to wake up and realize that the proper system needs to be added to make it equal footing.
Just because a casual killer goes up againts casual squads who might or may not be premade and are in voice chat, and then the killer does "good" by definition good you need to do 3kills constantly before the MMR system in place hits you with insane mmr scaling that does not make any sense.
So you are telling me Jimmy over here with 200 hours maining one killer with decent perks and gets good luck againts casuals and certain squads, ends up with few wins aka 3kills 1 escape, they end up then getting placed with Debra, Alice, John, Joe who have 2k+ hours and just obliterate that poor Jimmy killer because they got way more hours and use comms to the max potential.
Correct me if i am wrong isnt that how the system is that has been confirmed the senior dev CM
That system in place is unfair and gives unfair advantage if you can exploit it like many people that downvote me on my post claim is "funny".
No nothing of this is funny? Dont you get it people?
Nobody wants to punish playing with friends and using comms.
Nobody wants to punish killers either.
If everyone who downvoted me has actually read the post you would see this is about a general universal balance that wont stick to only one side, its about making equal footing to fully eliminate the advantage that comms give and stacking perks and exploiting it further by using voice chat.
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@Sjady said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958051#Comment_3958051
Rewarding hooks instead of kills would make the game more enjoyable and would also eliminate most of the behaviors labeled as toxic—slugging, proxy camping, tunneling… all of it would become unnecessary.
But instead of fixing the root of the issue, the devs keep buffing survivors to artificially compensate. And with the upcoming patches that will further punish killers for playing "efficiently," they’re only reinforcing an already flawed system.
The irony is that the current state of the game pushes killers to play this way if they actually want to win. And yet, we get punished for it.
At this point, I seriously wonder if they even understand their own game anymore.
I did see a post about an admin saying how they are aware of certain perks that give high risk high reward or so they say because that is like a diplomatic answer most staff use to not side with anyone on the forums.
My take is they are fully aware of the perks and know that in a game like this players will never be satisfied with buffs and nerfs but gen rush has been seriously most noticable than it has ever been recently.
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@Scarlett1111 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958057#Comment_3958057
Lethal doesn't change the fact that both these killers spawned close enough to the survivors that they were able to hit before the 30 second mark into the game. What happens if we get unlucky into the exposed effect from the event off spawn? Cause I've gotten it before, that is a free hook less than a minute into the match. That is not even remotely okay.
These were the huntress' perks, no lethal.https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Z5PWHCZ3GLKX/image.png
And this was the Dracula's; yes he had Lethal, that does not change the fact he spawned within 10 seconds of the survivors. He got his first hook 30 seconds into the game, after I cut the video off he hits the other sable again and hooks her. That is a full hook before it was even remotely possible to finish a generator.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IXSUMCCN3NM8/image.png
There is no arguing that this is not okay.
Not saying its okay but spawning is kinda rng unless u use offering plus you played event where people use pies mostly.
So bad rng has affected you + the killer movement speed when he transforms he goes really fast.
If he did use that lethal then i will probably just say maybe there is an issue with the specific killer being spawned close or just how rng decided to place killer near but its also the fact he can transform to bats and go fast straight to you guys
Now about hooking someone fast, was this your friend squad in comms or was it randoms since it would help to know if they did proper juking or not
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@Sjady said:
Well yeah, if you’ve got a 50% overall killer winrate, you’re not going to face many swf…
With my simulated tests i calculated anyone with above that treshold will face a premade 4 squad survivors in 60%-70% scenarios with each next match.
The game i would say has been forced balanced on both swf, high end killers, solo q combined together but in worst possible way ever, gen slowdown perks have been crushed they are not really viable only pain res, pop maybe, eruption but they have gotten a nerf too.
I do wonder if some people on this post ever wonder why do killers actually tunnel/slug and why do premade squads do gen rush and then almost always mock the killer for not even killing a single person or 2 or 3.
Well the answer is because killers are put in a state of sweat and internal panic because when you play a killer you kinda have this invisible clock on you timer that is influenced how fast they pop the gens, meanwhile as a survivor idk if you guys noticed but its much more calm experience you get to explore the map can waste time play mind games etc, obviously there are some killers you cant have freedom againts and are in panic state but rarely.
I rarely see a killer bully or mock players when doing a full wipe at 2 or 3 gens left, why is that so?
They were probably playing ######### scared againts survivors trying hard to prevent gen rush lol.
There has been few killers ive faced like wraith, trickster that did mock but the win goes to survivors that mock the players.
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@Scarlett1111 said:
This is from a game I just played, you can see it takes roughly 10 seconds for the game to START and the other Sable to be hit/enter chase. Why is this even remotely close to being allowed, there is less than 5% progress on any generator and the killer is literally already on top of us. How is this suppose to be fun in the slightest?
There is a perk that activates on the start to show survivor aura for i think 7s.
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@ElodieSimp said:
I know BHVR caters to killer mains but can we do something about slugging, it's really getting out of hand especially lately.
I made a post that would add a system that can potentially fix all core problems of boring behavior in game.
Dynamic balancing system powered by Machine Learning.
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@Sjady said:
BHVR wants to control everything, even if it means sabotaging their own game. They consistently reject community involvement, even when the feedback is valid. Streamers who've been part of the scene for years have asked for hooks to be rewarded instead of kills — a simple fix that would drastically reduce frustration-based toxic strategies. Yet after all this time, nothing's changed. No willingness to listen, just control.
Oh i wish hooks are rewarded, its more fun to hook than to kill, killing takes way too much time and with current perk values since all gen slowdown perks have been sent underground the gens just fly by, its chaos out there when i play survivors its like killers have stockholm syndrom of being punished for doing chases on multiple people at once now they just stick to one person and tunnel them until they get their kill.
The most disgusting truth is when i do play as a survivor i never get put in a 2 SWF lobby or 3, always randoms even if i do good and get good gradings and escape rate.
This just makes the whole thing sad because devs focus on the system that places you only with randoms that end up dying because they pop perks that dont give a solo q player any worth.
There is a night and day diff between playing againts a 4 premade and againts 4 solo q survivors with random builds.
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@Sjady said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958039#Comment_3958039
They don't care about game balance, they just want money.
I find the whole "go next" system a bit odd because its just a fasade to cover up the real issue.
I asked a buddy of mine if he can try to make some simulation tests for dbd perks on his rig since he also goes to same uni as me, he said he will figure out something when he is less busy.
I sadly dont have a rig that i can setup the machine learning but even then the devs did confirm that players only have surface level stats from the API.
Devs get the good stuff to balance the game.
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Much appreciated for seeing the vision and how it can help both sides!
Not really sure why no staff have replied at least considered it or confirmed that they have had similar idea or same to add in game.
wish some day they reply
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@JPLongstreet said:
I'm pretty sure the builds players run aren't loaded in until after the lobby countdown is complete, and then loads as it generates the map. So what are we talking about about here, another lobby before the lobby (and in the case of SWF a third lobby)?
I can here the game creaking and tearing just trying to do all of that.
There are 3 perk profile builds that player can switch from, im pretty sure most players like myself too fill out those 3 profile builds depending how they wanna play.
The build shows for user top right under "perks" which ones they are currently running and have been using, the ML will judge based off of the used perk profile.
There wont be any pre-pre lobby need for anything the game remains the same, perk values the same unless devs want to nerf and buff the perks by default, the ML just dynamically scales off of those default perk values.
The hope to achive here is for players to not really stack same perks if they play in a premade lobby and same goes for the killer perk builds and killer choice.
Oh and this will help balance the future update the devs have planned for in future and its to show your own perks too the lobby for other survivors to see if you are solo q.
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It probably triggered only for max 1 crow that they reset by lightly tapping gens or totems.
Which shouldnt be allowed lol
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Same i agree with this, had many matches almost every other one as a killer i get left with 2 or 3 gens when 2 alive and they just hide and hide.
The campers should get max crows instantly if the system sees a pattern and should alert the killer once per match it wont repeat, only once per player.
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@DarKStaR350z said:
The problem with a ranked mode is that people will still play in unranked if it means their games are easier.
Yep exactly and split it in half.
Im happy the way mode is right now with one singular mode
All they need to do is implement a system where if u get placed in higher mmr due to recently won matches puts you high with 1k+ hour players or worse a premade squads for your next 2 to 4 matches.
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@killer_hugs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957614#Comment_3957614
well, i didn't say anything about a ranked mode and i agree with you.
other games that have divided their player bases into separate queues (or even into separate games) have suffered for it.
we need everyone in the same queue as much as possible. i think if i were to argue for anything it would just be that players should be playing more frequently with others who are in their skill range; right now you can be playing with literally anyone. one game you'll be playing against a new player, the next you might be playing against one of the best players in the game. it's ridiculous.
I actually made a post about how the game can be tuned by a machine learning system if its been trained and properly tuned and guided by the devs to what to pay attention to and such.
Feel free to read my post its actually something that might bring the fix to the playerbase.
But yeah my bad about kinda not explaining why i wrote about two game modes.
They can technically keep entire playerbase in one and let the machine learning system dynamically lower certain perk build values from people that are waay higher mmr than you, same goes if you are way higher mmr than them there will be certain perks that would in favor for more experienced players.
But in general i wanted to give people some insight how bad splitting playerbase is and it can lead to death of a game.
In my post i also explain how the system would reinforce the current mmr system and help with this exact issue
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Long story short.
Dbd is a mix of comp and casual players.
Adding a ranked mode would be really really bad as it would split the playerbase and increase queue times for both sides.
So its generally a 50 50 when you click play as a killer or as a survivor
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@CrossTheSholf said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3A7Q449Q0IVW/d4fwzv12tjaf1.png
Now we know why they were looking at killing the handful of good add-ons that artist has in the PTB, If this is the logic they use (Big Number + Kill Rate up = Bad).
I don't particularly think it's a healthy way of game balance…. Like The Artists changes were so bad and hated there were massive threads here, Steam, and elsewhere. Like is there any consideration on why those add-ons are used and have an increased kill rate? When a lot of the add-ons are just bad, then it makes sense you see the few good ones pop up again and again…. Kinda makes me wonder what other unnecessary add-on tweaks were done.
I agree with you there they cant be constantly doing this, they should have a system in place doing it for them in pre lobby before match begins, i made a post about machine learning system that would be trained with each month with fresh data to see which perks actually are being ran in what kind of builds and how fast that build helps players kill or escape.
Post is on my profile!
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@Elan said:
While kill rates been always some indicators of what killer needs help of tweak, we surely know that current meaning of kill rates become inconsistent:
News:
→ Abandoning counts as escape, so if killer abandon while everyone slugged abandon he won't get any kills into stats
→ Hatch escape when one or more gen are left counts as escape, eventhoug it's pretty much kill but some killers (me too), find it too boring to slug people for minutes to prevent hatch escape
→ Survivors are in scenario where before were options to get lucky and change outcome of the game (when two people are on hook, one slugged and last chased, now without slug having unbreakable there is no chance of changing the fate)
Old (current):
→ Survivors being afk or playing with experienced friends
→ Killer being afk
→ Killer being friendly
→ Killer giving friendly hatch
→ Survivors purposely trolling
Etc., what that all means is that there will never be reliable way to balance due to kill rate.
There is a way to balance i made a post about them adding machine learning dynamic balancing, which would infact fix the whole MMR missmatch lobbies where the game technically forces you in lobbies that dont match your playtime and experience.
Them just trying to tightly put mmr variants in game wont do anything it will just make it worse and prolonge the core root issue.
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(Post got edited by mod, was intended for a tag of a different person)
Irrelevant reply carry on.
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@darkshadows8326 said:
BHVR, you need to introduce a way for Killers to see if players are in a SWF, through either making a new icon indicating their party count or by changing the color of their names. This has no downside whatsoever, if Killer doesn't want to play against a SWF, they get to wait for another match. There are some players who want to play against SWF to challenge themselves.
I made a post its on my profile that would help with that, matter of fact it would be a refreshing update and way of playing the game againts said players.
But the post is also about how it would tackle the problem with people that only play ability killers and stack perks and punish the people that get stuck in the MMR system selection
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Would cause the playerbase to split causing longer times to find a match, if you check my post i suggested a better idea that would help players even if they get matched with partied up players.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Second half of august month
I would like to see less popular modifiers too… 2v8 is great but I guess I got a bit sick of seeing it for 2 complete weeks.
Would be a good idea for devs to program it so 2v8 is always present sorta as an award for players that play often and build up chances for to be put in a lobby that is 2v8
So imo it should be like a thing where 2v8 is in same lobby pool as regular 1v4 to not split playerbase.
Would be quite possible too honestly, make the chances to be up to 4% too and then once the players get put in it it drops back to 0% and builds up when playing and drops if afk and abandon.
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@Munky said:
I hear you, but it would be so much easier to just fix the blatantly awful MMR system of DBD. Currently what happens, at least in my experience, I win a few matches in a row against potato lobbies, so now the MMR system sees my wins and now it has to balance it out towards a 2K, so what the MMR system does: It gives you unwinnable matches untill you get back to that 2k average. It literally only counts kill/escapes. It is beyond me that they still havent changed this system…
But yeah, kill/escape system can easily tricked which kinda defeats the whole purpose of it anyways fully wrecking it and it becoming useless almost.
I wish there was another way to tackle this issue, other method is to make a whole different system which would make players get even more filtered and grouped up to make Q-time longer for both parties.
Or if they add a specific mode but that will 100% split the playerbase in half which makes q-time worse too.
I wont deny that ML system wont kinda make it iffy to play the game for first few months but it will catch up to speed, they can feed it 1 year old stats or older and newer ones and let it analyze everything in order before releasing it in public testing and bare with it should be in a long testing phase and properly tuned.
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@Munky said:
I hear you, but it would be so much easier to just fix the blatantly awful MMR system of DBD. Currently what happens, at least in my experience, I win a few matches in a row against potato lobbies, so now the MMR system sees my wins and now it has to balance it out towards a 2K, so what the MMR system does: It gives you unwinnable matches untill you get back to that 2k average. It literally only counts kill/escapes. It is beyond me that they still havent changed this system…
Yeah see, sad news is you cant balance the MMR system to stop doing that unless you give in more players to play the game, aka i will give a dramatic number, 100k active players playing or 150k, this is when MMR systems start to perform very well due to better variation of similar MMR points assigned to each player.
So this system i suggested to the devs to consider would help eliminate that playergap and lets say dbd playerbase grows larger reaching 100k players active (not counting events and stuff), the ML system will be tuned down on its own if devs decide or they can take more control and tune it manually each month to make it neligible, it will basically be a perfect counter to resolving MMR displacement of players and it cant be fooled even if you drop rank to "smurf" which i noticed a lot of players do when i play as a killer and a survivor, so right now people kinda trick the current mmr system by deranking, with ML system in place you cant hide from it unless you buy a brand new account and smurf from there but that is another story which all of 99% of paid comp games struggle with fixing.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956729#Comment_3956729
Not even AI, this is more about Data Analyst and clustering methods (which AI can do too of course)
I am a software developer and have not your level in terms of ML and AI, so I wish it will work
Yeah if we go in depth its more about data analysis and clustering methods, i was just trying to explain blatant terms what it would be doing.
People interpret it punishing and applying permanent nerfs which is not the case, each match will be different due to killer variation and even if same killer choice but different player the perk values will differ from prior matches because it learns from patterns.
Like this will help the survivors get placed higher and higher up until they get matched with similar perk build killer and where values will be neligible to differ.
Only at lower ranks it will be really noticable and of course on people that purposly drop ranks to play worse killer or worse survivors (no offense to anyone).
By my calculations ive done at home it should work but it will take aprox 3 to 6 full months to reach noticable changes in how community plays and see noticable growth, lower penalties and trolls and griefers.
At start it will be really rough start but if done and tuned correctly and be transparent with what the ai has learned and publish these stats to the public forums for players to learn more about it.
It will be as i call it piece of cake :P
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@[Deleted User] said:
Dynamic balance. I have never seen that before.
I like the idea but it would be way too complex to put to use. Matchmaking is already crying blood; I think you ask a bit too much to it 😅
Having a true functional MMR, with maybe dynamic ranking adjustment according to your current streak, would already be great, I guess. If people still have to wide gap between their levels… Why not
I am a currently studying the course for machine learning and neural network systems and its actually quite easy if you have already all the inputs to give to the machine and you program it to follow one specific directive and tell it to improve on it and can tune it to be weaker or more aggressive at doing its job.
It will take the team full dedication i believe they can make it possible since they do listen to the feedback and user reports.
I just wish people believed in the ai more about being used to balance the entire matchmaking system, ai does not want to punish players it will be directed to put a stop to constant nerfs and buffs to meta perks and killers