CoalTower
CoalTower
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@OopsAllHexes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260373#Comment_2260373
I did not actually expect you to literally contradict yourself, but sure.
"IW is shut down by Stri-" Let me go ahead and quote this:
"People always use IW as a "counter" when arguing about this. Perks are not counterplay." -CoalTower
So, with THAT being brought up for you, and equally applied to what you just said... okay, cool, and? If the Spirit doesn't have IW, the Survivor makes no vocal sounds. This is one of the few things I will agree with Scott Jund on is that IW makes a injured Survivor completely silent instead of simply silencing their grunts of pain, and that is annoying. Her power gets destroyed by this perk.
She also doesn't track solely by audio, that's what people complain about. It's just the best way of doing it.
I suppose breathing louder might be helpful, but that would require a code rework, potentially.
Then I have something to ask: Play Spirit for around... 10-15-20 games. Don't run Stridor... and tell me how annoying it can be to injure a experienced, healthy Survivor, especially when they don't give you things to go off of. You typically have to end your power instead of getting a cool phase hit instead.
I said it was shut down by Stridor. Note that I didn't say Stridor was a counter to IW. I firmly believe that perks are not counters, and I also think that IW should be nerfed. I've thought this even before Spirit came out.
She tracks solely by audio 95% of the time at least because scratch marks are unreliable, grass does not cover every inch of the map, and there aren't any other ways to track as her.
Code reworks are fine. A ton of other things ALSO need code reworks, even more so than this, but I'm not going into that for more than one reason.
I would actually do the challenge you suggested, but I can't play dbd at the moment. My PS4 broke, and I'm finally able to get it fixed, which I just found out, but it'll take a week. So I'll do it in a week, but it won't be accurate. I haven't faced a good survivor in months, and I doubt that'll change in a week. Anyways though, you're supposed to use your power in short bursts. That's the most effective way to play her.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260365#Comment_2260365
You know that Spirit sees scratch marks while phasing, grass movement, and has an addon that shows Blood trails right?
Audio is simply the most accurate form of tracking for Spirit while phasing, while also heavily influenced by Perks and Survivor state, like only one or two perks, though one of which is a Survivor Meta perk, which isn't great design. It's just messy.
Which is why I'm suggesting a visual method of counterplay that's independent of any existing variables and more easily played off of for all Players, (and representative of the Cold Spot superstition,) while removing some basekit variables that either punish new Survivors too harshly, or that simply vary wildly. Yes, this does make it a bit more of a coin flip, but provides a sturdier foundation to build off of if tweaks need to be made moving forward.
But she tracks by sound, since scratch marks aren't reliable. I suppose it would be fine as long as audio would still be her main method of tracking.
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@miketheratguy said:
I III-50'd Meg last week and as such have had fer full bloody prestige out for a while. When I went to use it today though, it's gone. No trace of it in her inventory, either as pieces or the full set.
Has this happened to anybody else? My first guess is that maybe it has something to do with the reworking of the character models but my P1 Dwight and Claudette still have their bloody shirts. If this is something everyone already knows about and has discussed I apologize and you can feel free to ignore it, but without any info this strikes me as a bug.
I swear to ######### God if I lose prestige like I lost my legacy I'm not playing this game again until they fix it
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@Quake said:
The major problem with spirit personally i believe is stridor.It's just overkill.0 counter even with perks.
Other than that i think spirit is "fine".
I mean,who experienced enough does not like mindgames in chases?With any killer?
The issue is that if you don't have IW, or she has Stridor, it's not a mindgame, as she has way more info than you.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260319#Comment_2260319
Yeah, as I said, it depends on what killer you're playing. The map has very few windows so killer who can deal with pallets will do well on it.
Bubba, Demo and Wraith make it a deadzone in two minutes. Huntress, Deathslinger and Trickster can shoot over most loops and pallets. It's one of the best Nurse and Hag maps. Spirit can stand still and fake phasing for free hits.
Haddonfield is NOT good for Nurse, just playable.
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@bibibib8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260226#Comment_2260226
Map offering are really strong for the survivor because you know most map are survivor side. Funny enough killer got offering that help the survivor too
But the majority of survivor offerings are #########
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260399#Comment_2260399
Yes. Check their posts. They'll remind you of a certain someone.
Sluzzy
They already do remind me of them
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@urbanevasioncare said:
Hello I made a forum account just to say how my mmr is going and I have been playing nurse since even before mmr was first tried consistently so my mmr score must have been pretty high. So all my matches as nurse have been against pretty good survivors and most of them are all on pc I’m not sure if they are pc swfs but I’d say mmr is working, but if every game is like that I’m not sure if I’d want to keep playing.
That means it's working perfectly. Stop trying to get people below your skill level
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260388#Comment_2260388
They did. They want the DS rework reverted.
LMFAO
Are you serious???
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260336#Comment_2260336
Ah yes, the "Machine Gun Build". It is sad that I wasn't here for that, because I would be lying if I said I wouldn't like to give it a shot.
It was super unfair 🤣
But fun
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
You have to break chase multiple times to get all stacks, you lose stacks for hits and most special attacks like hatchets and such take a token away. They should fix it so certain killers can't use special attacks like Shred or Deathslingers gun can't keep stacks by using it. Then it would be alright.
That's PWYF 😂
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@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260280#Comment_2260280
Even if you give ONE thing that's counterplayable. it would kill her power 100%
You'd have to give her a Major. buff. to compensate what indicator you give survivors.
Like the footsteps for example. would hurt her and would kill her. would 100% move her down to low A tier,
The breathing? also Low A tier...
That's the issue here. You CAN'T balance her without making her weaker. This change is based around mitigating the downsides to adding counterplay.
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@SoapNSpook said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260352#Comment_2260352
Just get more hooks than usual, that means no camping and letting people go to second or death stages at once. Easy.
That's not the issue here. The issue is that certain killers CAN'T pip while using their powers, and the fact that gens go too fast for a lot of killers to deal with, with only three(usually bad) perks.
How would you feel if survivors had to escape with 32k BP and all iridescent emblems to get adept? Because that's what killers have to deal with.
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@OopsAllHexes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260236#Comment_2260236
How about giving a better way for Spirit to track Survivors if Survivor can see or hear her instead? You are proposing that Survivors get more tracking tools on Spirit, when the only effective tool she has is grunts of pain which is shut down by IW, enforcing the Stridor meta.
You ARE biased because you propose "small" changes that make a Killer go down multiple tiers. And even then, that doesn't make you immune to proposing bad nerfs yourself.
IW is shut down by Stridor, which makes IW survivors easier to catch.
I don't want her to have other ways to track. I like the way that Spirit is unique from tracking solely by audio, and the counterplay should also be audio based. So, how about survivors breathe louder when healthy?
I'm not being biased, I just don't play enough Spirit to make perfectly accurate suggestions on what she needs.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260199#Comment_2260199
Omni-directional audio like the Huntress Lullaby enabled on the Spirits Voice is basically just a tell.
Unless you're saying you want the volume to change based on distance with no L/R distinction? Which is still basically: I want to know where Spirit is, because you can deduce where she is based on the position of her Husk, and the volume increase/decrease of her Audio in relation to what available pathing she has.
Technically the Spirit can counterplay against this by attempting to mimic pathing Audio through distance while going another direction, but all of this is such a high level of counterplay and so completely reliant on Audio that it's not a good design.
Yes. Volume increase by distance, but no L/R distinction.
I want her counterplay to be completely reliant on audio, because Spirit is also completely reliant on audio.
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@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260208#Comment_2260208
I kept saying that for years. Bhvr refuses to change the simple code about it since it's a damn hassle.
I shouldn't have to force tunnel ONE survivor out early so i can have a chance at getting Adept killers...
Exactly. The whole thing is stupid
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@OopsAllHexes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260214#Comment_2260214
Um... no she doesn't? The Survivor doesn't make noise when stationary if they aren't injured. They make noise when running, but they become near silent if they just walk.
No, you are biased, you proposed a major nerf that solely favors Survivors without giving Spirit anything in return for giving her a consistent way to shut down her power repeatedly and make her a 110% M1 Killer.
Then how about they don't hear the noise while healthy?
I'm not biased at all. I just want her to have counterplay, and I have literally shut down EVERY over the top nerf suggestions for her.
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@bibibib8 said:
I dont know what you want more most of the offering are op for the survivor
Not true at all. Neither side has good offerings.
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@valvarez4 said:
Don’t you think devs it’s time to work in survs offerings? Because luck offerings, fog offerings and hooks offerings are totally trash. Also the offerings to start 2 survs or all survs together are unuseful
You mean like how killers have shroud of separation and cut coin which help survivors?
Or how moris are useless? Or how the majority of maps are survivor sided?
Yeah, this goes both ways.
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@velosinhooo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260202#Comment_2260202
I read your post, what I was talking in my reply is that Spirit cant be changed without making her garbage excluding changing her add ons, her add ons are the major problem in my point of view.
That is not true. Sure, she'll be a but weaker because you can actually DO something against her, but that doesn't make her garbage.
Add-ons aren't what make her have no counterplay.
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@OopsAllHexes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260196#Comment_2260196
That's about what I expected. "I'm a Killer main therefore my opinion is more valid!" like this doesn't make you immune to being Survivor biased or making bad suggestions like a bunch of Killer players.
An idea is more than enough to always be positioned correctly. If you do this, then you need to buff her so she always has a idea on where the Survivor is. Fair's fair.
She does always have an idea where the survivor is. And that idea is directional, unlike this.
And you're right, but I'm not survivor biased. I'm just not blinded towards unbalanced killers like other killer mains.
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@Verconissp said:
You can still get adept. if you gotten two hooks on em that is.
Just that you need to also not spam yer powers..
We have powers for a reason, and we should be able to use them. Adept needs to be changed back to just getting a 4k
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@velosinhooo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260157#Comment_2260157
Not exactly, she has an idea of what you are doing, she know partially your localization, thats more then necessary.
The other thing is that how would you nerf the spirit without touching her add ons and completely breaking her game style? You would make her not be able to hear you when in phase? The only way to nerf her without changing her entire character would be changing the effect of her add ons or the % of her add ons, they are 80% of the problem that actually can be fixed without making her completely garbage.
I never said that. Read the post before commenting.
Also, her add-ons do need changes. Pretty much all of them do. She needs an addin pass as well, but this is centered around her base power more than anything.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260169#Comment_2260169
So, explain to me how giving her a tell of when she is phasing and when she is not provides counter play.
That's not what my suggestion was and you know it.
Somewhat knowing what she's doing while phasing provides the ability to counter her. It makes it into an actual mindgame.
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@OopsAllHexes said:
Let's just skip to the biggest bit:
"My suggestion for a change is to simply bring back the sound bug where you could hear her breathing in phasewalk. No, this won't be directional. This allows players who pay attention to somewhat know what she's doing, and that allows them to take the appropriate counter, creating counterplay.
I think that this is the perfect way to add counterplay without reducing her power, but I also want to see other suggestions, so if you don't mind, please comment your ideas."
And then because of this, Spirit can never get injures because Survivors always know exactly what she's doing, therefore she can't get downs quickly enough, making her drop multiple tiers because she can't get the necessary under 20 second downs that is required against competent teams. This definitely 100% reduces her power because the fact that Survivors can't track her easily is how she counters loops. It's not the speed, it's specifically the invisibility that causes this.
This is something that people who suggest Spirit nerfs almost always never understand. "COUNTERPLAY" goes both ways, just admit that you only care if there's no counterplay for one side.
Excuse me? Honey, I'm a killer main. Anyways, as I said, the sound won't be directional. They won't know exactly what she's doing, they'll just have an idea
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260057#Comment_2260057
Like Nurse? Where her entire gameplay is "She's blinking on my arse". That's obviously not fun to play against, and has zero skill on both sides, right?
The skill is predicting your opponent, knowing where she may try to use LoS blockers to hide her phasing, guessing if she's simply trying to mindgame standing still. What direction would be the optimal path for the Survivor to take, or if they may take a gamble at choosing a dead-zone route. She may try to time her phase so that Survivor's breath appears during the middle of it meaning the Survivor can perhaps predict when she's going to pop out of phasing. It's trying to take that misdirection play of choosing what side of a pallet to drop/slow vaulting while the Spirit is phasing, and condensing it into something more independent of Perk loadout or loop requirements and standardizing the information that both Players see so it's a bit clearer.
This is also discounting the generic skill behind standard M1 play and looping if the Spirit is not using her Power.
Would it be as fun? Would her timers and speed boosts need to be tweaked? I don't know, would actually have to try it and see it in action.
Nurse has the most skill in both sides. Her entire gameplay is reading playstyles and working through bugs. Nurse isn't even close to a guessing game. Everyone knows that good Nurses will NEVER predict.
What you described is a glorified guessing game that STILL has no counterplay. Congratulations, you just made Spirit worse without providing any counterplay!
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@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260047#Comment_2260047
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260044#Comment_2260044
You can still get them in pub matches.
Which rarely happens but it still happens.
But you're still saying you can 2k to 4k reguardless as Nurse with no slowdowns and i stil wanna see the proof behind it =D.
Survivors are the real killers. Prove me wrong.These are pretty much all me not trying. I do have slowdown in some of these though.
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@velosinhooo said:
The major problem with SIpirit are her add ons in my opinion as they can make her slow or super fast. Im considering a Spirit with stridor, and a Survivor with Iron WIll( if you dont consider Iron Will a counter play, you reply to me and I can come wit an other argument if I can think about). Spirit will probably take the fist hit and use the strifor to track you down, so lets think about something, You are a survivor at a jungle Gym, you are injured with Iron WIll against a SPirit with Stridor, you crouch to make less noise and the spirit comes out of the phase 5 meters away from you, you have your perks( Iron Will, DH and other 2 perks that I dont need to specify), you have a window and a pallet, the window is at your side and the pallet is 10 meters away, but Spirit came out of phase expecting you to be near the window, you can run a little bit and use DH to get to the pallet.
Okay, that occasional.
Lets think about an other situation, you were runnning at the starting of the game( Spirit with stridor and you have the same build as last game) you just started hearing the woosh from spirit, you have a few options here, as you were running and spirit is at phase, she probably saw your scratch marks, so the best option here is to start running to a jungle gym( even if its far away) and take the first hit, as Spirit had to use her phase at the starting of the game, she now has to start walking to recover, she had 1 second~ of her phase remaining, what means that she will have to wait 12 seconds~ to get her phase back, with the little sprint burst, you are already near the jungle gym, now you have a few options to use. Go to the pallet, go to the window or crouch near one of those( not to say if you want to double back, thats something that me as a Spirit main, would say that is the worst idea as she can just be standing still trying t oget a vision of where you are, if you double back, then she knows where you are, so If I was this spirit, I would make the long way from outside of the jungle gym and catch the guy that probably ran to the pallet and just droped it, if you choose the option to crouch, then My phase will be probably gone and you bought even more time to run without having to use DH, obviously this is a bet.
On the last 2 situations, you had the Idea that the spirit probably had the yellow speed and the brown speed as add ons judging by the time she took to get to you when she started to phae, she took 4 seconds~ to get something like 30 meters~( as she took the time to get half way to the jugle gym and she took the long way to the pallet, Im taking that infos more of my style of playing( I usually dont use add ons better then yellow to train comps), if w consider the more add ons or no add ons, it has infinite ways to get that situation going as they can focus on speed, duration( if you use short bursts its better then the recovery add ons), entering phase speed, there are tons of things that get impossible to have a good info abut her add ons, so it depends very much on luck and the hearing of spirit, as she got out of the phase in the first situation because she was not hearing something considerable and at the second situation, she couldnt get any further with her phase, I think you could get that her add ons are great part of the problem, if not I can make some more situations without survivor perks and a spirit with stridor and add ons.
Her add-ons are a part of the problem, but the main problem is that you have no idea what she's doing, while she has every idea what you're doing.
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@Lx_malice said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2259979#Comment_2259979
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260118#Comment_2260118
These.
Bhvr pls. It's been like a year and a half.
Three years. She's had the blink bug that makes you UNABLE TO USE YOUR POWER for three years
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@jooeevela said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2258155#Comment_2258155
lol, 5 years lmfao
They could def make it last much longer than 5 years though.
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Fix Nurses bugs
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260010#Comment_2260010
Adding info just makes Spirit a pallet muncher with a speed boost power like Wraith and just makes every interaction a brute-forceable 50/50. And you're screwed if you're not at a loop or just small loops in general. Let's not forget how much Perks impact spirits power, EG: Iron Will/Stridor/Lucky Break/QnQ/Poised/Dance with Me
But removing it makes her into a guessing game that requires no skill from either side.
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@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260008#Comment_2260008
Mm...like i said.
Show me a video of going against the Best Effective swf team. against your Nurse or the Best Nurse in general.
I'll wait, =D
Also, the best SWF would be in tournaments, which I don't partake in for a multitude of reasons. The only time you'll go against them is when you choose to by playing tournament dbd.
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@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260008#Comment_2260008
Mm...like i said.
Show me a video of going against the Best Effective swf team. against your Nurse or the Best Nurse in general.
I'll wait, =D
I almost never play against effective players.
Although I'm rank 1 at all times, because, well, Nurse main, I usually get survivors that don't deserve their rank. It's super easy to get to red ranks, and I haven't played against good players in a while.
If you mean a tournament SWF, that would likely be a 2k, not a 4k. Slowdown has pretty much no effect on them, so I would be running a slugging build.
Anything under this is always a 4k. Considering the fact that I have to handicap myself to not end the game in 2 minutes, I will always 4k anything under a tournament SWF. By handicap I mean never running add-ons unless they hinder me, and not slugging as much as I would typically like. Oh, and never running slowdown other than Corrupt, which is to start early chases, not to slow down my early game, and Thanatophobia, just in case I get a map like Hawkins or Lerys where I have to try harder than normal. And I still win without trying. If I ever feel like I might get less than a 3k, I'll just stop handicapping myself and win no matter what.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I don't like this because it causes her to be an even more audio reliant Killer and removes her standing still mindgame, and it only addresses her power while at a loop, forgetting that her power isn't just invisibility, but also speed and the ability to track scratch marks against less experienced Survivors, and doesn't address Stridor.
I'm still going to stand by my suggestion that Spirit no longer hears Grunts of Pain/Breathing while phasing and no longer sees scratch marks, but Survivors will exhale cold breath periodically (seen by both Spirit while phasing and not, and the Survivor) as an indicator of the Survivors location and that the Spirit is nearby (though she still retains the phase audio). This being able to be mind-gamed against if the spirit seems to be mindgaming standing still.
Taking away info from both sides is worse than simply adding it to one side imo
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@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2258967#Comment_2258967
Most high tier nurses do not only use one Blink...
Show me a video then. of the top 0.1% Nurse versing a 0.1% swf team. one blinking them 100% of the time, I'll wait.
And again. nurse does take skill to learn. more than 50 hours. Do you know how to flick blink? Do you know how to Short cancel a blink? Do you know how to Predict Blink? Etc
Gen slowdowns are a MUST. you will NEVER. EVER. Win against a Effective Swf as Spirit / Nurse even. It's been proven that so many times. and it's sad how people are blind to Not see that truth,
Rank still doesn't take into factor. What if the survivors did terribly? What if they got carried in a swf? What if they just got carried in soloQ and still pipped up? Your argument into rank doesn't make sense whatsoever... And to stay in green ranks. doesn't really take much. you can just be looping the killer or helping the survivors w/o touching a single gen and what not,
And the Skill celling to reach rank 1 IN GENERAL. doesn't take much skill in-fact... i can argue this point all day..
I can win against an effective SWF as Nurse with no slowdown, but I also have 5k hours on just her. You don't necessarily NEED slowdown to win as her, as long as you're experienced enough.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2259419#Comment_2259419
But the window to close her second blink is far too large. Especially with addons. I've had situations where I should have been able to get out, she used a max first blink and I was on the opposite side of shack, yet she had time to charge a blink far enough to reach the other side and then hit me with a lunge. Well, excuse me, I already outplayed her by faking her first blink out, 10 meters for a second blink within 1 second is too big of a window.
And I do think Nurses can one blink survivors if you lower all the penalties they added to her to "compensate" for the second blink. Less fatique and faster charge speed would still be essentially 2 blinks, just that there is a forced pause inbetween.
And rank DOES mean skill. Knowing how to consistently pip from rank 20 to rank 1 takes skill. Being able to consistently pip requires skill. You cant just hop on the game and become rank 1 without developing your skill. I never even implied that the skill needed to reach rank 1 meant the same as skill needed to be a high tier player. Those are different skill requirements. Skill in games is a mix of decision making and game knowledge. It's not VR, the highest real life skill you can apply is mouse precision and fast button presses. You need decision making and game knowledge to reach rank 1, thus, reaching rank 1 requires skill. Meaning that rank DOES mean something. I have repeated it multiple times, so I will repeat it again: I never said it took a lot of skill. Rank 1-4 players are, outside inactive players, always better than those in lower ranks. Doesnt mean they're not potatoes, just that they arent baked potatoes.
And no, she can't one blink decent survivors.
Even if she had NO fatigue, she still couldn't. It's just too easy to counter.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2259419#Comment_2259419
But the window to close her second blink is far too large. Especially with addons. I've had situations where I should have been able to get out, she used a max first blink and I was on the opposite side of shack, yet she had time to charge a blink far enough to reach the other side and then hit me with a lunge. Well, excuse me, I already outplayed her by faking her first blink out, 10 meters for a second blink within 1 second is too big of a window.
And I do think Nurses can one blink survivors if you lower all the penalties they added to her to "compensate" for the second blink. Less fatique and faster charge speed would still be essentially 2 blinks, just that there is a forced pause inbetween.
And rank DOES mean skill. Knowing how to consistently pip from rank 20 to rank 1 takes skill. Being able to consistently pip requires skill. You cant just hop on the game and become rank 1 without developing your skill. I never even implied that the skill needed to reach rank 1 meant the same as skill needed to be a high tier player. Those are different skill requirements. Skill in games is a mix of decision making and game knowledge. It's not VR, the highest real life skill you can apply is mouse precision and fast button presses. You need decision making and game knowledge to reach rank 1, thus, reaching rank 1 requires skill. Meaning that rank DOES mean something. I have repeated it multiple times, so I will repeat it again: I never said it took a lot of skill. Rank 1-4 players are, outside inactive players, always better than those in lower ranks. Doesnt mean they're not potatoes, just that they arent baked potatoes.
About rank, I agree with this. That's a very good point.
About Nurse, you couldn't be further from the truth. She only has one addon that extends her second blink, and it's actually really bad for reasons I'm not going into rn. It's called pocket watch. Yes, that situation is kind of unfair, but not as unfair as nerfing Nurse that much. The reason why only being able to one blink would kill her is because all you have to do is watch where she's going and not go there. It's harder to do this with her second blink, as you will likely have broken LOS. However, it's not impossible to outplay a Nurse, even if she is using her second blink. You have to play against her like you play her. Get a feel for her playstyle and you'll last a while in chase.
If they implemented that nerf, it would essentially make Nurse only playable on PC, where you can flick with her. That's completely unfair for every console Nurse main.
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@Dustin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2258054#Comment_2258054
To be honest even with the breathing you still can't do much against her. It only prepares you for that moment.
Any good Spirit doesn't even need injured sounds. They can hear footsteps, vaults and every other sound a survivor makes. I'm not even an amazing Spirit and I refuse to play her because she's bullshit and doesn't feel good to get "outplayed" by and I don't consider myself good mopping the floor against all reds with her either. Only reason I'd pick Spirit in the past is if I felt like making survivors I recognized that I didn't like to feel like ######### and you can't even switch killers in the lobby anymore so I just don't play her.
I feel her footsteps need to be audible again like they were for a short time when they were bugged. Past that I can't see it being fair for both sides. Spirit's power needs her to rely on audio and I feel that should also be her main counter if we hard focus on not completely reworking Spirit.
The breathing is from a little while away so you can do something. Although I do agree that it isn't a lot.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
It's sad that we have to give evidence that we actually play killer to say "I think Spirits lack of interaction is somewhat boring and unhealthy", isn't it?
I haven't played her on close to a year, maybe more. I just got bored. Even against good players unless they pure genrushed and pre dropped every safe pallet instantly they had no chace at winning.
Sad, but not surprising.
I completely understand this. I don't play her for the same reason.
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@Wulfasger said:
I am playing bothsides so, going against spirits is so fun, if you play like camping on the pallet and got hit. Ofcourse she doesnt have a conterplay, she is probably the best killer to go against if you want to use your big brain. Stop want nerfing killers. Buff them, so we can encounter something different then nurse/spirit/billy on higher skill caps, all i see is just those. If i see any other killer than those, they are %100 meme builders.
I find her fun to go against too.
But she has no counterplay. No, I don't camp pallets. Your brain has nothing to do with it. She knows where you are, you don't know where she is. That's a problem.
If you had read the post, you would know that I'm not trying to nerf her, just to add counterplay.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
I think the fear a lot of players have is that Spirit is one of few killers that can keep up with top level teams. And they're probably worried the devs would screw it up. Which is fair at this point.
I'm sure there are some players that just have an unjust hate for her because she is strong, but my reason for wanting a rework is that I just don't find her enjoyable to VS in the chase.
I don't care if she ends up stronger then Nurse if she gets reworked to become more interactive and fun to play against. I'd probably start playing her again too.
This post isn't a rework, it's a simple change to add counterplay without making her weaker.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2258643#Comment_2258643
Again: less fatique, longer range, faster blinks. That's a major buff. Besides, it wouldnt, really. Most high tier Nurses only really need 1 blink to get hits anyway. Having that second blink to adjust for mistakes means survivors dont have any room to punish mistakes. While she can already punish mistakes with 1 blink and punishes them even more heavily with a second.
Nurse already doesnt have counterplay beyond breaking line of sight. Heck, her fatique is short enough to still reach you after a hit with 1 fully charged blink.
And yeah, ofcourse survivor issues get fixed faster, there is only 1 survivor with 50 different models, let alone that survivor bugs tend to heavily impact survivor performance.
There are 24 different killers, not all equally popular while having bugs that dont really impact their performance, they moreso impact gameplay itself.
As for balancing sake: Killers tend to get attention first, The Realm Beyond was meant for the devs to look into maps, killers and perks. Most killer perks(teachables) have been addressed already if they needed it. Survivors? I mean, Ash is still trash, Quentin's perks have only been getting worse(seriously, Leader is better than Wake Up, Vigil barely has any use anymore, Pharmacy is arguably his best perk and all that does is open chests quicker with 1 guarantueed medkit).
"Nurse also Doesn't Deserve a Nerf. No matter what.. Her power takes ACTUAL skill to use"
Not that much tho. Took me 50 hours to learn properly. 50 hours is nothing in this game. Survivors barely know half the killer powers after 50 hours.
"And fyi.. If rank did mean something... i'd never get back to rank 1 on a new alt without using gen slowdown builds and god awful builds.."
Oh, you dont need gen slowdown or amazing builds to perform well against sweat squads. All you need is pressure. I've had games with 0 perks, just addons, and won because I applied the right pressure when I needed it. Using gen slowdown perks are mainly so you can ######### about a bit as killer.
And, I mean, you would. You already reached rank 1, you already have the understanding of the game, you know what it takes to pip and what not. I never said it was especially hard to reach rank 1, but it still means something. It loses meaning the longer you are at rank 1, but that's like saying 1 million dollars means nothing because you own 5 billion dollars. It still means something to have 1 million dollars. It just feels like it doesnt because you got something more.
"And so what if someone has 5k+ hours and still in green ranks? What if he wants to stay there? Not my problem"
If he wants to stay there, he would actively need to lose 70% of his games on purpose. It's actually really hard to stay in green ranks if you've played this game for thousands of hours, unless you're actually terrible. So it DOES mean something. Never said it was your problem, just that it means that that person wouldnt be skilled enough to get out. It still takes a significant amount skill to reach rank 1 on either side, the skill ceiling is just much, much higher than the skill requirement to reach rank 1.
It's still a major nerf if you take away her second blink. I have around 5k hours on Nurse, and I've been playing her since she came out. Even the best Nurse in the world can not one blink a survivor unless that survivor is bad.
Rank doesn't mean skill, it means you know how to pip. For survivors that is literally just doing gens, and for a lot of killers, it's playing Legion.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2259396#Comment_2259396
Yeah true the amount of times I've been called a killer main or a fake survivor main for thinking the decisive nerf is ok is insane
It's a really dumb mindset honestly. Not everyone is blinded by the side that they main. Sorry that happened to you, because that is VERY annoying
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@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2259380#Comment_2259380
lol what's with people accusing you of not being a killer main
Because they can't fathom that a killer main would want to nerf a killer. Same for survivor mains with survivors.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2259379#Comment_2259379
(Eye roll) 😒
Just because it’s no longer scary doesn’t mean it’s no longer horror. Horror is many sub categories.
(Eye roll)
As I said, balancing is more important. Just because something was OP in other horror games) movies doesn't mean it should be in dbd. That's like saying "Remove looping! It doesn't fit the horror setting!" This mindset is so dumb I can't even take the people who have it seriously.
Also, Cote called it action, not horror, so it has been officially recognized as not horror, but action
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2258569#Comment_2258569
Rank means something, yes. It's red rank where rank stops really mattering as it's essentially putting people who have thousands of hours and people who have hundreds of hours on one pile and say they are equals. Below red ranks, ranks have meaning. If you have 5000 hours and cant get out of green ranks, that says a lot about your skill. So yes, it doesnt mean much, but it still has meaning.
Second, bugs like that are one of the few reasons why Nurse hasnt been nerfed further. And yes, I'm still going to complain about her being OP. Otherwise, shut up about survivors being OP because a lot of bugs exist in the game(failing skillchecks when running away from a gen even though the skillcheck came after, effectively losing 10% for no reason, getting stuck on structures because their hitboxes are smaller(yes, smaller hitboxes can get you stuck as survivor in places where killers wouldnt), laying exhausted on the floor, etc etc etc.
So I guess survivors dont need addressing because they too suffer from bugs, right?
As for that bug, it's been on and off. It's been fixed multiple times, but it resurfaces from time to time, yknow, just like 99% of the other bugs. That doesnt excuse Nurse's power. Heck, it's not even killing them off. In the VAST MAJORITY OF GAMES, BUGS DO NOT AFFECT YOU. And effectively, Nurse can do with just 1 blink in her kit. It needs to be a longer range, but chain blinking is what makes Nurse OP and gives her essentially no counterplay. Heck, Nurse's fatique, blink range and blink speed could be improved significantly if they remove her second blink. WHICH WOULD ACTUALLY BOTH TAKE CARE OF THAT BUG FOREVER AND NERF NURSE TO A POINT OF COUNTERPLAYABILITY.
You can counter nurse because you can see where she is. Only having one blink would kill her. Any decent survivor will look where she's going, and either keep running or double back, and she can't ever hit them, no matter how good she is.
The second blink is her power, not the first. They can double fatigue time and it won't kill her nearly as much as this would.
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@Onimain1996 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YA5SO87UW7PP/f645a2976268bd736fcfb79a50827a6a2bc87700-00.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IBEYFQ7DL4TM/f645a2976268bd736fcfb79a50827a6a2bc87700-00.jpg
Spirit needs a change (from a killer main)
THE KILLER MAIN
Survivors are the real killers. Prove me wrong.I am a killer main though.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
I swear... far too many in this community never watch horror films, or play other horror games, and have no idea why certain things are the way they are in DBD 😒
So it's ok to you that she doesn't have counterplay, just bc horror movies/games?
This game has not been horror in 5 years, and balancing is much more important.
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@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2258564#Comment_2258564
Because Rank Means something right...?
Rank doesn't mean jack first off...
Second. Nurse still needs to be fixed. She shouldn't have ANY glaring issues. like this https://www.twitch.tv/videos/876532560
I don't EVER want to see people complain about Nurse being op when ######### like this happens
That's like saying Spirit Can't phase cause it's stuck on 99% until she downs a survivor. then hooks him to regain her power again,
Or like Huntress can't reload till she downs and hooks a survivor. Or ANY killer's power in general not working until they pick up and HOOK a survivor.
THAT SINGLE ######### BUG has been in the GAME for THREE YEARS. and it has NOT been patched, Tell me.. When bugs like this AFFECTS killers. do you want to kill them off even more...
Nurse is the most balanced killer in the game. She's only as good as the person playing her, making it a game of skill