ChaosWam
ChaosWam
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997354#Comment_3997354
I am absolutely aware that not all killers tunnel and camp, and have not claimed so anywhere in my post. I have also always been one of those people that is completely against this us vs them rhetoric as it doesn't help anyone and generalising one side is completely stupid.
But I am also getting tired with this game, and it's in my opinion bad decisions. This would have been a great patch for solo survivors and for the health of the game in general.
I would feel bad for all the reasonable killer mains if queue times increased further for killers, but it would be 100% deserved to all killer mains that immediately started doom posting about these changes, especially before even trying them in the ptb, and to those killer mains that tunnel and camp. I would be beyond happy for those people to have to wait through very long queue times. And as I wrote, this would pressure BHVR into releasing these new systems as soon as possible.
These problems need to stop going into 'killer main' this and 'survivor main' that, THAT is the problem.
In this past week, I've seen the EXACT same posts from both sides. It's these us VS them posts and rhetoric that causes these extreme balance changes and then revoking them over and over. I've been around long enough to notice the trend.
A few days back, you could swap survivor and killer in this exact post and it'd have been here. -
@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997354#Comment_3997354
nah update had some great stuff we've all been waiting this for years, they could have easily kept anti slug and elusive effect, and delete all the punishing anti tunnel stuff for now, even that was too much they are cowards
Have you ever done any game developing?
It's not as easy as 'deleting' the bad stuff. Some things, especially with DBDs coding, is more complex than that. And while I agree they should have pushed through with some things, I can't ignore the stuff that was abusable either. I won't defend BHVR for a lot of bad decisions, but game developing is more complex than that. -
This community I swear…
The changes aren't being scrapped, they're being delayed to be improved to avoid the problems they currently present in it's current form.
And this post is the survivor version of another post in a killer's PoV of the changes. Either side is too worried about having the edge over the other and nobody wants the game to be balanced and fun for BOTH sides.
Maybe, just maybe, not all survivors are out to abuse mechanics and wants the best for SoloQ, and not all killers are tunnelling/camping and still experiencing issues and blowback when following the new rules.
We all need to stop posting this toxic us VS them nonsense and start being constructive with each other, but I already know that's beyond our capability at this point. -
I can't even call myself a killer main anymore, and yet, I'll be playing much less killer than before if this comes to pass.
Survivor will just simply be easier, more relaxing and less of a pain to die in while killer becomes more and more tedious unless you play the high tiers. -
@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995297#Comment_3995297
You think is fair to leave badham alone in being broken, well devs dont thats it.
I don't think Badham was broken in the loop department, as far as pallets were concerned.
But if @Aven_Fallen is right and this is more of a reworking of placements, then yeah there is no problem. -
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995297#Comment_3995297
The wording is misleading. How it is worded in the Patchnotes those maps got flat out buffed, but in reality, some got buffed and others got nerfed. They might feature more Pallets, but those are less safe now. From what I have read here is that Swamp got new structures. Disturbed Ward also got new structures, those are overall weaker than the Jungle Gyms and Longwalls it previously had.
I did not play on all Maps which got changes, but the ones I played on looked alright and the changes were good. Would have loved to play in Coldwind tho since those were the worst ones previously when it comes to Deadzones.
Oh I see, thank goodness for that.
After everything else in this patch I was worried. -
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995315#Comment_3995315
Ah but ChaosWam... we have basekit BBQ and Chilli that our 4.6 m/s butts can waddle across the map to see the Survivors aura before the gens pop!
If the gens don't pop, we get baskeit Pop Goes the Weasel, that our 4.6m/s butt's can waddle over to kick the gen while the Survivor holds W away making mad distance!
But this is all fine! Cause we get a free Clown Antidote bottle when we hook! That ties it all together and makes it all OK right?
I mean why choose Nurse, Blight, Dracula, Ghoul and Billy with their free BBQ and Chilli and their mini POP when you have this? Other mobile killers like Spirit, Unknown, Freddy and Wesker get the full POP even! But it's fine, the Clown bottle makes up for it!
Jeez I'm hot. I need to leave the forums a while...
It's actually kinda funny how the top tiers get more value from the hook bonuses than the M1 killers.
Funny in a sad way. -
Frankly, this is beyond anti-tunnel.
Gens can be perma blocked past 6 hooks if you hook a survivor twice in a row and they die, even if you weren't tunneling and are trying to at least secure a kill with 1 gen left.
It's embarrassing at this point, and you may as well forget ever playing Pig or Sadako since their Mori's also trigger the gen speed boost. On top of the extra pallets (aside Haddonfield and Coldwind, thank god for those two maps getting love) M1 killers are going to be a headache. -
Haddonfield I get.
Coldwind I get.
But the rest of these, what?! -
In all due respect, BHVR has still pushed features we disliked even with the feedback from a PTB.
I can't blame anyone for not holding their breath. -
@DNet89 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993828#Comment_3993828
Balancing. No killer would have an advantage so maybe they could try some new things with the Basement
Maybe I should rephrase this.
With the introduction of the anticamp and how even Bubba can't be basement bubba outside chest protector, what is the point of restricting all killer powers in basement?
And frankly, a wide sweep of disabling all powers in basement when plenty of killers don't get a benefit from using them in basement is also strange to me. -
What is the purpose of this change, though?
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@Azulra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992915#Comment_3992915
There's many issues with the new systems that are gonna negatively impact the game across the board.
- Certain killers will be borderline unplayable/useless such as Onryo, Pig, Twins, etc.
- You have numerous lose-lose-lose situations that affect all killers(the ones listed above even more so and, yes, that's right it's not just a 2-way issue, it's a 3-way issue) where if a survivor is unhooked then they have no concerns at all and can just instantly hop onto a gen without even healing because A) if the killer hooks them again then they can get punished for it, B) if the killer slugs them then the Slugging Prevention System(it's not a reduction-focused system, it's a prevention-focused system), C) if the killer ignores them then they lose the generator when they only have 5 gens to defend meaning after 5 downs they're essentially guaranteed to lose the match anyways.
- These systems are direct buffs to SWFs(specifically bully squad SWFs) as they get a bunch of strong perks built into their bully builds now without the need to sacrifice perk slots.
- Not only are BHVR withholding crucial match info from the killer, but now they're making it so that the killer's own UI is actively lying to them while the survivor's UI is giving them almost every single bit of info in the match with 100% accuracy.
- These systems aren't just targeting malicious players and are gonna be targeting normal players by punishing them for just simply doing their objective because 6 total hook states are either A) 2 survivors with 2 hooks each + 2 survivors with 1 hook each or B) 3 survivors with 3 hooks each and if a killer has gotten to that point and a survivor dies after even just 3 total hook states then it's a normal player using killer because tunneling is when you actively ignore everybody else in the match just to keep going after the same person over and over again hence the name "tunneling" because you're tunnel visioned on that one person.
There are so many more issues with these systems, but just these alone are enough to show why this needs to be scrapped and go back to the drawing board like they did with the Finisher Mori and Twins Rework PTBs.
Pretty much nailed it, thank you for typing it out, I'm tired of doing the same lol.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989877#Comment_3989877
slugging doesn't work because base tenacity and unbreakable
I'm aware, but from the option given, it's still the better option. Hence the irony in this situation.
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My stats are pretty close to 50/50 last I checked the official stats.
I still have my concerns with the changes. Not entirely, but there are some things people bring up that are legitimately concerning. -
This is why I've said for a long time there should be a hard cap for any % based increase or decreases, for BOTH sides.
It would fix the issues we have with haste, gen speeds, gen regression and so on. It would also open the possibility of buffing perks and such across the board since they can't all be combo'd together to be a problem. -
That's any forum or comments section from this game, from here to reddit to steam.
Makes it annoying and hard to find folks willing to compare notes and opinions in good faith, but it can happen. The problem is with a game like dbd with it's core being survivors vs killer, that bias is tenfold. Or really, for every 1 killer bias there's 3-4 survivor bias statistically speaking.
It's exhausting either way. And it's only going to get worse. -
Agreed. Would help a ton.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991606#Comment_3991606
I mean, we haven't seen this to test in any way, so most everything is speculation.
I've said every time that people talked about "not having collision" off hook that you need more than that, because of how hits work.
If they listened, or generally would've thought about that, then Elusive needs to also make you basically invisible to hits entirely. You're basically a ghost until the timer or conspicuous action.
In all honestly, I expect it will work this way anyhow, because it's only purpose it's to be "anti body blocking", and taking the protection hit is exactly that. So the elusive survivor should be that ghost for it to fulfill its purpose.
Agreed, it is mostly speculation until we can test it.
And I do hope you're right. -
@HaliAndEx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991606#Comment_3991606
The devs can easily make it so that players that don't have collision aren't prioritized.
Sure, the devs could.
The problem is if they will. Much like other things the community has asked for, this very well could be another oversight we wouldn't see a fix for in months.
I'm hoping I'm wrong, but it's worth the thought. -
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Someone didn't read what the new Elusive modifier does.
I've also been thinking hard on it since the patch notes, and honestly, there is still an issue.
Sure, they can't bodyblock as effectively. But the game's autoaim priorities can make it where they can be right inside or behind the survivor you want to go after. Not necessarily when running, either.
A scenario I think of is the unhooker goes to a corner, and the unhooked stands an inch inside them at that corner. Now, the killer can't really walk into them to hit the unhooker, and the priority on who gets hit will be the closer one. This could also be done while running, but the unhooked has to adjust for their haste and where the other player is running. With enough time and experience, they can adapt to be able to force the killer to hit them regardless.
Not that this will happen all the time, but it's definitely a SWF advantage. This does also assume BHVR doesn't take precautions against this and allow hits to prioritize the unhooker, but I'll hold my breath on that until I see it. -
I'd rather they be anon due to how communities can get.
Not to say you personally would do anything OP, but we know how heated this community can get, and what some folks will do over the smallest things.
That said, I do hope the team is taking notes. -
@stikyard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991573#Comment_3991573
I don't expect to win as Survivor. But you should expect the full 4K on average?
Of course not. But it's not a bad goal in the slightest. Killer role will always be to kill as many of the survivors as possible. If someone is shooting for all 4, good for them, they need to work for it for the most part. Especially after these changes.
Heck, adepts are still a thing. I'm not gonna fault the killer going for adept either. -
I'm one of the ones who kinda wants an update like this to go through, with the right adjustments, but this kinda argument ain't it.
You're basically upset the killer role wants the goal of winning. We don't get mad when survivors want to escape, I hope, so why are we mad about killers wanting a 4k?
This is also coming from someone who legitimately loves playing Insidious Unknown for the jumpscares and not the win. -
People are already going over Sadako so I'll leave that to them.
But I'm going to be vocal over a killer already struggling: Hag.
The survivor you hooked last can just… Ruin your web of traps and if you go after them, you get punished. You can slug them for 90 seconds, sure, but you have to go back and set up again, take another chase, down and hook a second while they're probably already back up and ruining your traps again.
Not sure of a fix either, since I don't play enough Hag to really think of any solutions. -
@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991269#Comment_3991269
And also @Lorisidir_Giichi as well good read too.
I actually believe in them making some noticable changes that will punish SWFs now since baseline pop, bbq, haste is coming to the game.
This is a huge thing if the values for pop and haste is decent and bbq actually does what bbq does.
This free's up a slot or two for perks that wont be needed to run now you get free aura reading for hooking, you get an extra gen kick regress on top of existing gen kick value.
Im kinda praying on the fact they add a hybrid mini corrupt baseline which wont affect lower mmr or avg lobbies even only prevent as you said SWFs to popping one or two gens fast in start, i made a post about this so feel free to check it out! Lets make it happen!
That's actually kind of a nice view on this.
More perk slots for other things like chase or stealth is more than welcome, but we need to see how all this plays out in the PTB.
Plus, we do know there's a killer improvements update in the horizon too, so we at least have that in case things are the worst case scenario. -
@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991266#Comment_3991266
"HOWEVER, for the overall health of this game? This is an update that should have been done years ago, before a lot of the current meta was established"
It's funny, I was thinking to myself earlier that it's kind of odd that we are looking at this sort of update so late in the game. We are literally in the 10th year and only now have they decided to address probably the most frequently complained about strat since the game's conception. Why now and not years ago? The only conclusion I could come to is that maybe people are dropping survivor at a faster rate than they're being replaced. Kind of like how update 6.1.0 is considered a response to people dropping killer, i wonder if this is the flipside happening.
Obviously that's just my theory, I have no actual evidence to support this.
I still think the constant separation of queues due to new game modes has been effecting the survivor lobbies, since every time I've played when there isn't a 2v8 or a new map showcase queue killer gets the bonus, but that's neither here nor there.
Regardless, you are right in saying why now. Hooks have always been a flawed system and should have been addressed a long time ago. I personally believe the real issue was BHVR never had a clear identity with how DBD should be played, ever since they pivoted from 'hide and seek' to looping. Then, with their constant content updates, they stretch themselves thin on improving the core gameplay, issues pile up, and of course licenses needing to be made within a specific timeframe due to contracts, I would also assume but take that with a grain of salt.
It's going to be a very interesting update regardless for both sides. -
Agreed. In fact, I'd argue there should be separate feedback discussions for every big change.
Mechanics, separate killers, maybe perks depending on how many and the impact of the changes… Having it all in compartmentalized sections would make it much easier to compile the information and feedback. -
Survivors who ignore tapes get a bonus if I give them the eye is what will happen.
Otherwise, if they do tapes, they'll prevent themselves from getting that mori and potentially win, especially on maps with good tile RNG.@DNet89 said:
They could make getting condemned easier and change it where a fully condemned survivor is now exposed. They might also change it were you can only Mori a condemned survivor after they have been hooked twice
Funny enough I wouldn't be against this change. With the condemned on hook mechanic too, that survivor will have to be EXTRA scared being stuck at full condemned.
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So, SWF sided? We all kinda knew about that already.
But, it's worth mentioning still. The aura read the unhooked survivor will get will make it easier on SWF to relay information as well. Not that I'm arguing against it, just stating fact.
Good read otherwise, I agree with most of your points. Though, I do want this to go live to gather the information and show people that yes, while killer can manage even with these changes, there are things on survivor side that will make it tedious or stacked against them no matter what they do.
And as a soloQ survivor most of the time, I am dreading the SWFs that may end up letting me die on hook for a minuscule repair speed bonus… -
I'm going against the grain as well and saying the update isn't nearly as bad as some people claim, even if I can see Sadako being negatively impacted.
That said, there are VERY good arguments against it if you dig deep enough. SWF sacrificing solos for repair speed, early Mori's for bad survivor plays being negatively impacted, lose/lose scenarios if survivors find hook deadzones, etc.
HOWEVER, for the overall health of this game? This is an update that should have been done years ago, before a lot of the current meta was established. We're more up at arms about it because we're so used to playing specific ways, and even I am worried about gen speeds outpacing methodically choosing and picking chases as to not kill before 6 hooks, but it's a step in the right direction.
Now, will BHVR make the needed adjustments based on the PTB? That worries me given their recent track record. -
@Destaice said:
Killer mains who tunnel every game try to discuss tunneling in good faith challenge: IMPOSSIBLE
First problem is that Pyramid Head's mori only activates on death hook. So if that happens early into the game you were absolutely tunneling.
Second problem. Sadako can lock in condemned stacks by hooking survivors. So if you got a super early condemned kill one of 3 scenarios played out. You tunneled, you went a cheesy fast condemn build with a map offering, or you're playing against noobs. In the later 2 you probably win anyways given the circumstances. So what are you complaining about?
Pig being similar in that its either noobs or tunneling for a head trap.
I feel the need to point out that Sadako's power is still fully in the survivor's hand, and if they get max stacks it's because they ignore the TVs which take 2 seconds to grab and negate for 70 seconds. If a Sadako gets an early condemned, it's really on the survivors, especially since you can SEE the TV auras when they're on and you're in their area of effect.
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As for the topic at hand, there is a bit of an irony to this that killers like Sadako and Pig are better off just slugging survivors on death hook instead of hooking them to delay the game enough to get the 6 hook requirement.
Thankfully bodyblocking off hook is being addressed, but as others have been pointing out, there are other flaws we will need to be testing heavily on the PTB. -
@MDRSan said:
Killers: Matches go by too fast - why are the survivors rushing gens?
Also Killers: Why am I being punished for eliminating players from matches as quickly as humanly possible?! I want my win to happen fast!
I think you answered your second hypothetical with your first question.
Killers typically tunnel one out to make the game last longer in order to get the other 3 survivors. -
I still find it depends on the killer and the map.
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Idk, I have a blast trying to mindgame 2 killers at once.
Obv you can get wrecked quickly, but there are moments I've been able to evade 2 of them at the same time for a good amount of time, and it was honestly kinda fun. -
We don't need to scorch earth the item, with nerfs or removals.
This is why I've said the thing needed charges to begin with, because now people are used to that idea. It should have been strong with a few uses, that's it. It also shouldn't be a free escape as soon as you pop it like some people act like it should.
Personally speaking, I'd have rather it be an item you can activate on the ground to cover an area in fog for a good while and requires picking up again to stop it, or the killer finding the source and stomping on it to stop the effect, but not destroy the item. Throw some charges on it similar to a toolbox and you have a strategic sight blocker that could potentially counter Myers or Ghostface's stalks and the like unless they were inside the smoke.
But that's an entire rework and coding nightmare, so I'd rather it just be what it is, buffed back up and keep the charges. 3-4 of them. -
Agreed. And probably revert some of the other nerfs as well.
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Should have had charges to begin with, but revert the other nerfs if you added charges.
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And in rare cases, Dracula's hellfire.
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I don't think it needs removed.
Buff it back to place, and then put charges on it. -
Above all else, Sadako, P100. And it's because I love JHorror and while her kit has flaws, I enjoy certain aspects like condemned and being unable to be stunned when demanifested, that was the best addition to her kit.
Second main is Unknown, because I just have so much fun banking shots and using insidious for jumpscares. -
As a fellow Sadako main, there's two things that irk me with Sadako in the recent meta.
1. Her addons need another look, having an iridescent that nerfs you is still a silly decision and really should have been a brown addon.
2, and more important, Sadako has a slowdown mechanic in her kit that kinda doesn't work in her favor. I still think the one thing that could fix her is the ability to teleport to any TV at any time, but only powered TVs being teleported to spread condemned. She's been power creeped by Dredge, Unknown to a degree, and recently Freddy in terms of traversal power.
As someone who has played her in all versions, however, I do like 3.0 the most balance wise since her condemned is a real threat when ignored, but she's still suffering for being an M1 killer far too much and survivors who actually touch the TVs make condemned less of a problem, aside maps like The Game and Midwich that kinda make her TVs insanely good. -
All fog vials needed were charges, imo. This was overkill.
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Both sides can't see that they're equally guilty of perpetuating the cycle of tribalism, aside a few who actually step back and look at the game as a whole.
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978459#Comment_3978459
And yet, the problems didn't appear before they buffed yellows and made them super easy to use as part of a rework nobody really asked for.
Almost as if haste-stacking wasn't the issue. What else could it have been?
And are you really sure that the problem would go away if the new perma-haste Clowns would be somewhat slower, but they used the usual meta perks instead?
I'm saying it's MUCH worse with haste stacking.
And did we already forget why MFT was nerfed?
Edit: Actually if I recall, their fix for haste originally was only applying the highest % haste at any given moment from powers/perks, so yeah, it wouldn't have been nearly as bad. Clown can still spam it, that's still the #1 problem, but let's not forget the haste stacking is a problem we collectively were angry was taken away in the first place. -
I'm just gonna say it, we kinda have to blame ourselves.
At least, all of us who demanded they keep haste stacking as a thing. Sure, BHVR should have known haste clown would be a problem, but the haste stacking is REALLY making it worse.
My complaints about Made For This before the nerf were about this exact situation too, either side, haste stacking ruins the loop-based meta this game has evolved around. -
@AdamZ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974289#Comment_3974289
what builds do u use w him?
mine are:
bbq,dms,dragons grip,pop, torch,iri banner
surge,thrilling,surveillance,leverage, torch,iri contract
weave, franklins,human greed,hoarder, torch,horse meat
floods,jagged compass,gift of pain,leverage, torch, hammer
I use the exact same first and last build you put.
I also tend to run Surge, BBQ, Leverage and Gearhead with Town Watch Torch+Knight's Contract. My reasoning being if I'm using Carnifax to break gens, may as well fish for some smaller, additional chases near gens I hit to extend my Town Watch upkeep. Not the best build, but it can be amusing at times so it makes me happy. -
@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974278#Comment_3974278
To my knowledge there was not nerfs to Jailer at all in the recent patch. They did not change standard spawn times at all it was the only change from PTB to Knight they did not implement to release.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974282#Comment_3974282
Carnifex is not a chaser he is the one who kicks gens, brakes pallets and walls for you fast. For chase he is the last I would use if I have no other guards ready to use
Assassin in the one that you try to put to get fast hits he does not chase long but is the fastest of the guards and usually the one that gets the hits when I play Knight
Jailer chases and patrols the longest and is used to occupy chase survivors getting some hits sometimes or patrolling gens or areas as he stays the longest.
Sorry, should have clarified that myself, I'm just happy Jailer didn't get the standard hammer.
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@Langweilig said:
One question, who of the smaller two guards is the better one? I tried playing him but I don’t know which one is better for hunts. I know the big one is for long hunts, one of the smaller ones runs fast and the other breaks pallets very fast.
Definitely assassin if you're looking for hits. Much harder to handle assassin in a chase.
Jailer is more of a time waster than a beneficial chaser, but that's not a bad thing either. It's why I use Town Watch Torch for him, since it gives you undetectable while a guard is in chase.