ChaosWam
ChaosWam
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- ChaosWam
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Honestly? Balanced.
He is slow with axe, can be aura read with cams, his axe projectile isn't Huntress levels of crazy and large maps can be a problem depending on door placements.
However, all of that is a tradeoff for the instant grab if a survivor has an axe on them OR if they go into a door while Springtrap is traveling in them, the existence of the doors in any other scenario, and his undetectable is nothing to scoff at. -
My usual response is; What do you expect on this game engine?
Devs already said they're sorta held back in some regards due to it. Verticalilty isn't much of an option and anything sort of new can kinda break the looping aspect of the game.
That's why I focus on what a killer is capable of that it's clones aren't. Such as Insidious Unknown, who uses Insidious better than the rest of the cast. Or Undetectable Dracula using wolf form to get jumpscares. -
I think it'd be neat, given the alternate realities thing they already have going on.
I also loved the idea of killers swapping roles with their survivor counterparts. What-If scenarios of say, David becoming something like Huntress and Huntress becoming a survivor skin over David. Imagine how they could twist Gabriel and Singularity that way too. -
I do have to agree.
Quick wins = harder opponents. That said, the higher MMRs are rough if you choose to do anything but run meta+tunnel, unfortunately. At least on most of the killer roster.It's a difficult balance and I don't envy the devs who have to deal with it.
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My view on it is in some cases, base progression/regression is far too slow, but you can't increase/decrease either when progression can be so fast and full regression builds can be extremely good against those unprepared.
I still would like to see some toolbox adjustments alongside these regression nerfs, then buff both base progression back to where it was with base regression from kicks being adjusted a bit higher, with perks that effect regression having slight downsides so they don't keep the base kick regression + strong regression perks. Kinda like how perks like Dark Arrogance and Rapid Brutality have tradeoffs, but with regression it makes more sense to have those tradeoffs if base regression was viable. -
Call of Brine is getting adjusted?
Best update. -
This will be controversial to some, but I think he's slightly annoying to face and yet I'm okay with it?
It's hard to explain and I'm not sure why I feel that way to begin with. -
The only addon change I REALLY want done is for her Iridescent Tape.
Like sure, if BHVR wants a gimmick for an Iri, that's fine but Iri Tape is so bad in it's current state that I'm shocked it's not a brown addon. Trading your pressure for survivors to keep your TVs off longer is a joke, even if you have infinite teleports. Can't really depend on it, especially with how some maps place TVs.The only way I see that addon getting better is if for trading off condemned via TVs, it also has 2 TVs turn on within 15 seconds of a teleport hit, and decreases the animation time of the teleport so you can start moving again faster.
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I actually do like Furtive Chase on certain killers. But, only when paired with Game Afoot to try and manage who becomes the obsession.
On obsession based builds, it can be pretty good. -
@PatchNoir said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928674#Comment_3928674
chasing one guy with 2 killers leaving 7 on gens? not that smart, and kinda unfun for the chased person. Im playing killer solo so i cant coordinate something with the random basically and DBD doesnt have comms (2025 btw), so guess we deal with the pallet problem or just follow eachother all game to compensate a design flaw
Well no, you don't rely on it the entire time. I'm saying there's times the other killer can rush over and help, then return to their own thing.
I actually finished a Trapper/Legion match that ended with only 2 escapes because we played smart, knew when to drop certain chases, prep tiles with traps, and lead any wounded survs into each other.
It won't always happen obviously, but I do think killers have options to work around the pallet repairs. It hasn't been much of an issue to me so far. -
I will say, in 1v4 it would be extremely strong, no question about it. Endless god pallets would kill the killer gameplay.
But in 2v8? I don't mind it. Why? Pincer attacking as killer will mostly win against it. There's always another killer that can handle it, unless you're both M1 killers that require looping.
Honestly, 2v8 kinda fixes a few grievances I've had with the 1v4 gameplay while creating unique issues that 1v4 doesn't have, but pallets don't really feel like one to me. If your killer is weaker to pallet loops, there's always your buddy who can deal with them, and there's plenty of killer combos that can cover the other's weaknesses. Except maybe Spirit/Ghostface, which I haven't faced or played as yet but I theorize can be a pallet nightmare to combo as. -
I think he's fine. Only time I get destroyed by an Oni is when I make a misplay or get caught in the open, I can hardly blame the Oni player.
Plus, I have been enjoying what they can do with the extra turn speed. A good Oni on RPD is a force to be reckoned with and I am here for it. -
Haven't killer queues in 2v8 always been horrible?
I'm still pretty sure it's because having a friend to run killer with is more appealing, not because something is 'broken'. Not that it doesn't contribute, but I don't think it's the root cause. -
Does this also apply to Pyramid Head's cages?
Don't let my boy take another L… -
It's been fun. Not sure what the complaints are about.
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Mine is that Hawkins is pretty survivor sided, if not in specific situations.
I find that most M1 killers and even some with no teleport powers sort of flounder due to room RNG if certain doors are opened one match and closed another. Plus, it's got pretty dense pallet spawns and even one that can spawn to block off a hall with no way around it aside going through a room or two in the middle.
Then there are killers like Singularity who can't really use their power effectively on the map. Last time I got a 4k on Hawkins as Singu, it was because I seldomly used my cams and went full M1 most of the time, only slipstreaming/camera placing to punish survivors holding a loop. Which is fine, don't get me wrong, but when you can't place your cams on 30-40% of the map because of the way the walls function it gets tedious.
That said, it's still one of the best for undetectable killers/builds, can't deny that at all. -
I like OP's suggestions, honestly.
I already still use Insidious for Unknown mindgames as is, and I'd love to be able to set up faster. Pretending to be a clone out in the open while using the addon to reduce the survivor's ability to see clone auras is a pretty fun combo. But, I also want it to have some functions for other killers too.
@Skillfulstone has good ideas too, but if they removed it's current function of standing still undetectable, I would be sad about my unknown build's demise. Though, wouldn't be bad as a new perk entirely. -
@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917735#Comment_3917735
Respect that you do all the testing! It wouldn‘t be worth it for me. Have you tried swamp yet?
Double checked it, it's also there but not as terrible as The Game. Tried Yamaoka and Hawkins as well, both not nearly as bad, which confuses me because out of all of them I assumed Hawkins would have fit the bill.
That said, it could also be my monitor and settings being different too? That would also be a factor. -
@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917705#Comment_3917705
I noticed it from time to time. I find it already hard to see with her (especially on high gras maps) and then this makes it even harder.
I think it has something to do with undetectable, which (if I’m not wrong) makes everything darker.
On my testing so far, it's especially bad on The Game, testing it on Midwich and Borgo, it's not nearly as bad. Probably why I haven't seen it since I haven't gotten The Game as Sadako in awhile, though I'm still testing some other maps.
I also threw on insidious and it doesn't seem connected to undetectable, just Sadako's demanifest state. -
@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917693#Comment_3917693
Do mean that it is darker when demanifested or the other things I was talking about with mechwarrior?
The darker thing happens on more maps if not all.
Sorry I meant the demanifest darkening.
I haven't experienced it on my end at all, I am about to go boot up dbd right now and go test it in a private lobby just to see once I'm at my desk. -
I actually haven't encountered this yet, how strange.
Is this map dependent? -
@AlreadyTracer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914996#Comment_3914996
Many did because there was literally nothing else you could do
Idk how anyone who played during this time forgot this.
I remember survivors abusing the lack of hooks in a corner to get wiggle off's or to get slugged in a corner. Heck, bully squads kept this trick in their back pocket in case one of their friends died to a corner hook. -
I have such mixed feelings about Sadako, my main and the reason I started playing.
I'll only speak on her current iteration though.
I think she's okay. Not too strong, but in the right hands, not too weak. While my biggest gripe with her is the fact her Iri Tape is next to useless and survivors have a huge advantage with her TVs and how easy it is to lock her down, she's a killer that HEAVILY punishes careless or inattentive survivors via early mori on down. Probably the reason she's so hard to balance around, if versions 1.0 and 2.0 are anything to go by.
Her condemned is in a strange place due to all that, as it can be oppressive if they ignore TVs or nearly irrelevant if they do. Ring Drawing addon is basically needed if you want to add more to it, and it's why I think Iri Tape is terrible because Sadako loses her biggest tool, passive slowdown via sidequests for the survivor to run about doing tapes. Though, the lock-on condemned is nice and makes it much harder on survivors to do much if they rack up too much.
Funny enough, what I find the most interesting in her kit is her manifest/demanifest because I've gotten to a point where I tend to stay demanifested until I'm ready to strike a survivor as I come out of it. At times, I time it well enough to get pallet grabs because I end up pushed into their side of the dropped pallet a millisecond or two before manifesting, then turn around and nab them. And at times, I get good intermittent visibility hits from doing so.
I think the reason I still enjoy her current version is because of the fact her TVs can give enough passive slowdown and delay to make up for her lack of real stealth or antiloop. Doesn't mean she doesn't suffer on some maps, but she does dominate on maps like Midwich or The Game due to how the TVs function.
If there were to be any changes, I'd agree ring drawing should be basekit but it could be too strong with how lock-in condemned works. Iridescent Tape needs a complete change, perhaps giving Sadako the ability to destroy tapes on hit instead of what it does (or really doesn't do) now, and perhaps a boost to her power in some way, maybe allow her to phase through breakable walls while demanifested? I'm not sure.
Oh, and have VCR hide TV Auras when not holding a tape. I want VCR mindgames again. -
I guess a killer perk that would work like:
Start with 4 tokens. Whenever you break a breakable wall, remove one token. The broken wall is automatically repaired if a survivor comes within 5 meters of the broken wall. If breaking a pallet, repair the pallet after 10 seconds. The repaired pallet breaks when thrown by a survivor. While this perk has tokens, increase breaking speeds by 10%. Does not effect Generator breaking speeds.
The reason for a perk like this are for those breakable walls you'd normally never touch, creating a possible trap for survivors who think they can loop easier though those breakable walls. Maybe even encourage more breakable walls in newer maps and adding more where they can?
Obviously this is a concept, so general usefulness and utility isn't fully thought out. -
Don't worry.
I still run Insidious Unknown.
Just be sure that illusion isn't the real deal. :) -
After really testing everything, I think there's three things I can say I don't like. I will preface this and say I think I like the rest of his kit, skilled movement to cut off paths is great! However:
1. His ability to cancel out of his power is quite a low cooldown. That is my biggest gripe about him, really. I think he should be rewarded for smart movement to cut off survivors, but with how low the cancel cooldown is, it's hard to play against even in safer spots.
2. His enraged vault speed can trivialize some loops. I think it should be fine with unsafe loops, but needs to be adjusted for stronger loops imo. I tested this, and for whatever reason it can activate both Bamboozle (which Legion can't after a nerf, crazy to me) and Unbound. If done right, the Unbound movement speed after getting a M2 hit can be a pretty oppressive combo due to this.
Edit: I should clarify it can't increase vault speed from perks, but it can activate secondary effects like blocking windows with bamboozle or the haste from unbound. Though if you wanna waste a slot, it starts the cooldown on superior anatomy without the increased vault speed, which is kinda funny.
3. The width and range of his M2. As a hitscan ability, it really should have a smaller window to get hits off of. I don't mind it being a hitscan, and thanks to Legion and Plague I know how to play around being injured, but even I have to admit that needs toning down.
Otherwise, I do like this killer and the concept. Despite these issues, I do have fun going against him and it's neat to see how far players can push his kit, even if I think some things need tuning. -
I honestly think he fits in well enough. DBD has been more than slasher horror for awhile now.
Plus, I can cope and hope for some much more out there collaborations now, like Project Moon related killers, or Siren if we wanna go obscure Ps2 horror. -
Personally I don't think repair times need adjusting at all.
I do think base regression needs another look though. Hitting gens base game, with no perks, doesn't really impact much. I think if we were to buff regression again, base kicks need the regression values raised a bit and have drawbacks to kicking gens using perks like Pain Res or Surge much like how there are perks that increase stun times in exchange for faster vaults, for example. The tradeoff perks really are bad for stuff like that, but for regression I do think it has potential.
For example, let's imagine a gen at 100% repair and it's kicked. The passive regression is 0.25 of what a survivor takes to repair it, so it would take roughly 360 seconds to fully regress if not for the instant 5% reduction. Even with the 5%, it's regressing at a 1/4th speed than it takes to repair. If it were raised to at least half with no perks, you can make an argument for say, Pop Goes The Weasel to be strong at the cost of halving base regression speeds or whatever is fairest, trading off passive regression for more instant regression.
Then, perks like Call of Brine could actually see some better adjustments and buffs to work alongside such a change. It would also promote more perk variety, so we're not constantly seeing slowdowns and seeing more chase perks potentially. -
I still think my only real gripes are the width of his M2 strike being pretty generous, and being able to attack from a lower/higher floor than the survivor but that could be an animation issue if it were intended.
Since his M2 can't down, I don't mind that he can strike over mid walls. Tall walls are a different story though, if he's able to do so like others have said. I've played against Legion long enough to know how to survive on one health state as is, and Kanaki is no different unless the player knows how to intercept slide well. I simply plan ahead as far as that goes. Mobility only gets you so far unless you know how to use it.
What I DO like about him, is the fact that when I play him his mobility and rage mode allow me to swap targets and even encourages a slight hit and run. Get enrage from one player, go for another with that extra mobility. As far as returning to hook goes, the only idea I could think of is having post-unhooked survivors become immune to his M2 targeting for a time post unhook, so only M1 would work and the killer has to put in the extra effort, plus theoretically it would prioritize the unhooker if both were still at hook.
But I can only provide my current experience with the killer. I am still playing live and seeing what else might pop up on my end. -
I actually haven't died to one yet. Lost chases, sure, but no deaths.
And playing him, I'm doing well enough. The two nitpicks I have is how easy the M2 is to land, which it should have a less wide detection box, and the fact you can injure a survivor above you on another floor and go through the animation. Otherwise, I'm enjoying both playing as and against em. -
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904481#Comment_3904481
According to others, low-tier Killers are borderline unplayable already.
Should we not try to help them? Should be not try to address an issue that is disguising a major problem?
Absolutely agreed, but how exactly do we go about that in a general sense that won't buff the already strong ones?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904425#Comment_3904425
I don't think it will seriously drop kill rates, personally.
But I did say that we either needed to pre-address potential issues or be ready to jump on them fast.
I'm not so sure. It would be neat to test, but it's not worth the strain on low tier killers, nor worth the amount of time to do such a test imo.
If it were to effect killrates, it would absolutely effect M1 killers and poor mobility killers more than others. -
It happens every killer release.
Give it time, we'll all find out how to best approach this killer, what needs adjusting, and what needs buffs/nerfs. The only thing I see as an issue is how easy it is to use his power to damage, just needs a reduction in width for the hitbox is all. -
@Pulsar said:
The game would be healthier from both perspectives if tunneling was removed. As it is now, it is used as a crutch. That isn't inherently a bad thing, but it can be when it negatively affects a large part of the community.
As I understand it, a good portion of Killers feel that tunneling is necessary to have a chance to win. My own feelings aside, they should want tunneling removed so that we can address those issues. Would it not be better if you could feel able to compete without tunneling someone out?
As Survivor, obviously, if tunneling was removed you wouldn't have these very frustrating games where you are hard focused out of having a decent match.
However, I do not think we can incentivize people to stop tunneling. The cat is out of the bag, so to speak. People understand that killing someone off is the BEST slowdown in the entire game and it isn't close.
That means whatever we do about tunneling needs to be a hard-stop ala anti-facecamp. Which also means we have to either be ready to jump on potential issues fast OR try to pre-address them in the same patch.
I would also agree with this, however, there's only one problem.
Say they remove tunneling, be it a survivor becomes immune from chase, invincible post unhook, whatever scenario. How long would it take to re-balance the game around it? Realistically speaking, and taking into consideration BHVR's timeframe for changes, killers would be stuck for a long time facing experienced survivors who would 100% attempt abusing whatever system is in place.
Me personally, I only see tunneling as a fine game plan around 1-2 gens left and I agree it's annoying at 4-5 gens and would love to see more incentive to swap between targets, but I fail to see a decent or equal tradeoff for killer side to contend aside just playing the top tier killers while more than half the roster, especially M1, suffer with no backup plan.
And I don't think basekit old BBQ for BP is going to be enough of an incentive gameplay wise, I've seen that suggested. Anyone who tunnels aggressively isn't doing it for BP. -
@DBD78 said:
If they succeed or not Skullie will always be hated that won't change. People see her they quit fun or not. I hope they make her more fun to play and play against!
I don't have a problem with todays Skullie. The only problem I have is how she looks and walks like a p*rnstar and not a killer. I find that ridiculous. But I'm 47 I guess the teenage players have a different opinion.
While I can't comment on your latter half, I do agree that no matter what is done with SM she will always be hated, especially if her kit gets completely reworked into something new for players to try and figure out, at least for a few weeks.
I've already tried playing SM in every way I could think and still got constant DCs. Heck, if you check comments on the steam announcement you'll see plenty of people already dismissing her and saying 'until she's deleted I'll DC, should have never come out of testing to begin with' and other similar comments. And that's just the loud ones.
As far as the redesign goes, I think it's great but I also agree it kills her identity and practically makes her into a alternate Twins, which would make it harder to justify running Twins if SM ends up doing much better consistency wise. -
@Autharia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3845923#Comment_3845923
Then you missed the forums for the week it was announced. We had what 10 threads about it from killer mains complaining about it thinking it added and didn't transfer hook states.
Must have missed it then.
Regardless, I don't really see an issue either way. -
I think this is being overblown a tad.
They changed the perk because they thought it was too strong. In fact, I barely saw any killer mains complain about it. Even I thought it was a good perk to counter tunneling with the only real concern being the ability to really spread hook counts when you need pressure, but that's not really here nor there to me the way I play.
They'll probably adjust it down the line if 60 seconds is too long. -
Am I one of the few who actually liked 2v8 this time around?
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I had 3 survivors in the same match try to do a pallet stand off against me.
As Nurse.
Legit sitting there for up to 10 seconds, waiting for a pallet stun.
I'm losing my mind. -
For queue times, maybe. And I still think the draw of having a buddy to kill with outweighs the balance issues.
But man, gen speeds can get insane in this mode, no doubting it. -
If the player base could handle it and queues weren't insane, absolutely agreed.
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@LordGlint said:
I heard Slinger is bugged currently, so...I'm holding off playing him.
Personally I hadn't run into his bugs yet, I can be thankful for that.
Granted, I'm trying different combos and role combinations so chances are I won't run into it unless I dedicate a lot more time to slinger. -
Honestly, not having an issue with the gen speeds this time around.
Granted I should play more, but on killer I'm getting pretty consistent 7-8ks with a competent teammate and the few times I tried survivor we escape with only 2-3 dead. I was worried the speed modifiers for kills/gens would be a problem, but they feel okay with how they implemented it.
That said, I have yet to play a match with 2 slower killers that have no traps or mobility. I feel like Slinger/Spirit could be a problematic combo for gen pressure. -
Gives me something to do while the sore winners tbag to themselves at the exit gate.
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Honestly?
This looks like a pretty good update so far. -
We did get justice.
That's why DS is how it is now. -
I like Onryo for two reasons.
1. I like seeing what other players do with her as a P100 myself
2. I like doing more than just gens. Her TVs are a great, but somewhat flawed, side objective to juggle. It could use tweaking but I still love facing Sadakos. -
@AhoyWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832185#Comment_3832185
I'll be sure to try some! I have been using Monitor & Abuse along the Moonstone Necklace for a 20 meter Terror Radius, but going full stealth would probably be even better! Any suggesstions?
I personally like using Dark Devotion for hit and run off the obsession or Unforseen for plenty of time to reach another gen or two.
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I recommend using stealth perks too. Stealth wolf is so fun.