ChaosWam
ChaosWam
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I haven't experienced a drop in survivors where I play. The incentive swaps between killer and survivor like it did prior to Lights Out as well.
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Meh.
I can understand that frustration, but I also think Hope doesn't do much aside a clutch save since by endgame, most resources should be used up. Plus yeah, survivor is down a perk slot. I'd rather them run Hope and Adrenaline over some other perks. -
@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3804340#Comment_3804340
I personally do not run Blast Mine because I honestly don't find it that amusing to use. I just kinda feel bad like I made the Killer look stupid, and I don't like feeling like I made someone else have a bad time, period. I'm sure plenty of Killers find it funny, but I don't really like getting hit by it back to back because I feel like it's kinda petty, and so I don't use it unless I need to do a challenge. I dislike using perks on people I wouldn't like used on me, which is also why I don't like to run Knockout. It just feels BAD to me, I feel BAD. That's also why I refuse to kick gens too much and run perks that facilitate that style; I have gotten hit enough by Blast Mine that the novelty has worn off and I'm just sorta over it. I once had a lobby too as a baby Killer where everyone was running Blast Mine and I just… couldn't kick any gens period, so I couldn't really guard gens. It felt bad, it wasn't fun to deal with, and I was over the perk immediately after that. I'm sure glad they had fun, but I really didn't have a good time at all. The joke kinda wore off after a bit, and once a joke isn't funny anymore it just becomes really obnoxious.
Mirror Illusion however? Funny as hell and I always feel like you're super clever when I actually fall for it (I rarely do but it's funny when I do). Head On? Hilarious. Pebble or that locker distraction perk I forgot the name of? On my God please yes I'm giggling every time. You actually hit me with Flashbang? Chad move nice fireworks, that's hard to pull off. Plot Twist shenanigans, Lute Perk, etc.? You get Hatch you're friggin' hilarious.
I personally don't feel that way about Blast Mine purely because it has a tell, the grenade on the gen.
Perhaps it's a personal thing, but I don't have an ego big enough to feel dumb for kicking a trapped gen because I just think the perk is hilarious. -
I only recall a nemmy tunneling me once, and that was because his first hook was me after 3 other gens were done and probably wanted a kill.
Most nemmy's I face just DC. -
@For_The_People said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3804319#Comment_3804319
I’ve actually never run blast-mine (except a couple of times in chaos mode) but one of the things gives me utter delight is the rare moment when a killer comes to my mirror illusion, does a slow turn and nods - these moments are priceless parcels of joy!
I don't own mirror illusion, but I imagine combining it with wiretap and blast mine makes every interaction a delight to see.
At least I hope so when I 'fall' for it. Like cmon, it HAS to be funny. -
I kick gens specifically for it, actually.
I still think it's one of the funniest perks ever made. -
The servers don't prioritize killers, not as often as you'd think.
Plenty of times I've had M1's robbed by autoaim, hitting a window as the survivor is less than halfway vaulting it, and hearing a hit at a pallet, getting stunned, yet the survivor took no damage. It does go both ways, and that's a symptom of online games. -
@brewingtea said:
This is a good idea, so it won't happen.
Ask yourself: Who asked for the Mori changes? Who asked to nerf SM or Distortion?
Now look at what people ARE asking for. Are they making THOSE changes…? Or ignoring them?
I don't make this suggestion as a demand for it to happen, it's only a concept I believe would help most players. If anything, I'd like the devs to at least see this and possibly consider it, with enough support from the community to show we do want clearer information in an easy accessible way.
In the end, the devs have the final say and I do respect that. I just fervently believe this is a healthy addition that has no downside to either side. -
@Ohyakno said:
This is a pretty clean idea, but they're not going to provide global statistics at will.
One can dream.
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Oh good now we're asking for certain killers to be gutted to SM degrees…
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803471#Comment_3803471
i think 60% KR is pretty kinda low. i can only speak my own opinion when i play killer but i don't consider 0, 1k and 2k as wins as killer. i consider them as losses. I also don't sugar coat my losses or down-play my failures as killer player. a lot of player do like they'll say 2k is a draw, which i just see as downplaying losses which is fine if it makes you feel better.
I agree with his analysis that 65% is sweet spot for killer kill-rates.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/85LS5GDQ9T5H/image.png
Vecna here shows what is close to 65% kill-rate. 38.76+19.88 is 58.64%. i would aim for 60% win-rate for killer so it would be around 66% or 67%. I think most killer generally content with that type of win-rate if they one-trick the killer or have lot of gameplay experience with said killer.
Most killer are nowhere near that. as a result, the game is primarily considered survivor sided for most killers unless your like a new survivor player. you can look at ghostface's stat distribution.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UCWHX6K8QB5I/image.png
he is nowhere near 60% and win-rate is like 45%. keep in mind, these all small sample sizes and not actual defined kill-rates. I do not think that it is realistic to expect every killer to be strong numerically but i think most important part about killers is them feeling good to play. If your having fun with a killer, you won't mind losing games as much because the killer is fun to play. a lot of these killer with disastrous stats don't really feel that fun or special to play. as a result, there isn't a whole reason to go out of your way to play a lot of weaker killers to lose.
I think the main conclusion I draw from this is BHVR shouldn't go above the 60% KR range, but also don't just gut killer powers like SM's.
I love playing as current skull merchant but i don't enjoy having to skip 1/3 of my games for d/c/give up ######### on hook. gutted skull merchant is not going to be fun to play for killer because the main appeal for skull merchant was the long over-time haste effect for landing successful claw traps onto the survivor. reaping said reward by chasing other survivors then ambushing the survivor with claw trap as it expires. Unfortunately survivor d/c vs the killer so it is whatever at this point.
Know what, that's actually really interesting statistics.
I think you're right about the numbers, I'll probably go over some other data points and see if this holds up with some other killers. -
@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803264#Comment_3803264
55% was lowest he suggested and 60% highest. So average of 57,5% kill rate. I think that would be the most healthy for the game. As now we can see with 60% kill rate big part of playerbase is having bad time soloQ. So I think 62% kill rate will be too high, especially considering last time I saw kill rates, average was 59%.
So I would lower the kill rate down to 57-58% by solely doing buffs that benefit soloQ survivors. Kindred basekit and seeing the anticamping progress would be good start.
Check Crowman's post above as to why I think 62% being the highest is alright.
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Plot twist, Clown skin.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803178#Comment_3803178
https://youtu.be/wGzorWsnd9s?t=1203
At 20:00-20:40, the developer states that they aim for 62.5% kill-rate to 65% kill-rate with minimum threshold of 60%. Skull merchant is said to have 72% kill-rate and when account for first hook death which i am curious to how they calculate this because a player can "give up" in the a game on 5 minutes into the match on 2nd hook but any case, he says that that she has 3% first hook death ratio accounting for 69% kill-rate which is too high. as someone that plays a lot of skull merchant, i can say for sure that the amount of time that people disconnect or kill themselves on hook is a lot higher. If i had to wager what her true kill-rate is without survivors giving up, i'd say it around ~62-64%. The changes that they're doing are by not mean small and are true gutting of her kit and the killer itself. that's ok because the ######### on hook stuff has to go down anyway but hopefully the rework that seems to be implied to be around Mid-next year will be some refreshing changes.
Billy he says has 68% or 69%. He also stated twin's win-rate but i skimmed over what he said. All i remember is that he said that Twins is labelled as weak but stats are very high(maybe because only playing twin are twin 1 tricks). For reference, Twin is strong but their play-style, slugging is not very strong. it is very tedious to play as and SWF tend to counter the play-style very harshly where it takes full 4 minutes to bleed out to win which very long but vs soloq, you are very likely to slug entire team because of poor play.
Thanks a ton for getting the right spot!
And I think you're right, it's far too high to expect anything above a 62% KR imo, considering the original plans was 60%. And I have to agree with you on SM, I am almost guaranteed a DC or Hook Throw when I play her. It makes me wonder if this is something that only happens at a certain MMR and most casual players don't do it on the lower MMRs. Wouldn't know unless I had access to that information myself.
As for Billy and Twins, I would agree with his assessment on Twins. Billy though, I can't say me or many I play with had issues but if his KR is barely touching 70% that's something I can't argue against.
I think the main conclusion I draw from this is BHVR shouldn't go above the 60% KR range, but also don't just gut killer powers like SM's. I think the sweet spot is somewhere between 58% to 62%, but perhaps they have more information on why they chose 60%-65%. I think Billy's alterations may help, but I don't play enough Billy to make a conclusive opinion. -
It's an interesting idea for sure. I'd like to mess around with it.
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@Crowman said:
Here's the fun fact about 62% Kill Rate.
The average of a 2K (50%) and 3K (75%) is 2.5K (62.5%).
A kill rate slightly higher than what is considered a draw (2K) is not the problem people make it out to be. People need to stop treating DBD as a 1v1 game and remember this is a 1v4.
Pretty much add this to what I said as well. It's why I hesitate going any further below 58% in killrates, especially for the weaker killers on the roster.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803209#Comment_3803209
My preferred kill rate is between 55-60%. It should not go over 61%. It‘s not about loosing or winning, but it is not fun currently and now the new target kill rate will lead to even more bad changes in the future, especially the map changes get worse and worse. I don’t mind the killer buffs they do, but the map changes.
Problem with that is this game is far too nuanced to be around a 55% mark. It's also why it can't be around 50%, due to the nature of it being a 1v4. The 1 still needs some power over the 4, and it's pretty evident when you face a lot of good players at higher MMRs. People like to think it's a 1v1v1v1v1, but ever since SWF was introduced (in my experience) it really has geared towards the 1v4 aspect, and really BHVR should make changes to embrace that and give SoloQ tools to play less selfish and assist their team without giving SWF even more ammo.
Think about how nurse sits so low despite being the top tier killer. As well as SoloQ and SWF differences, map variations, killer power variations, perks and how often survivors bring them, that sort of thing. We also have to keep in mind how many survivors there are in lower tiers dying left and right because they don't understand all the different things in the game nor have immediate access to better perks. I even saw a post somewhere asking if a Myers was hacking because he was able to straight up kill people not knowing about Tombstone. It's also why I think Freddy has a higher killrate despite being one of the worst killers, I sure remember going against my first Freddy and having no idea what was going on at the time. That said, a 58% mark wouldn't be a bad compromise either, but the other issue is varying killer power. Weaker killers will suffer from any wide nerfs more than the stronger ones.
I still think at this point in the game, having a compendium covering every killer, their power, perk, addon and gameplay tips provided by, say, the Fog Whisperers or the community even would be a better step toward bridging some of the gaps. A lot of newer players don't even read patch notes or understand the changes and how they effect the killer or perk. With a compendium being updated every new chapter or change, it could help at least cover some knowledge gaps. -
@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803178#Comment_3803178
they said minimum 60%, over 65% is too high. They aim for 62% presumably so that they comfortably remain over 60%
@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803192#Comment_3803192
In the skull merchant part I think
Currently combing the video in search of this, but it may take me awhile due to being busy on and off.
I will say, if a killrate on a killer is sitting at 65%, I do think that's too high myself and I also can understand the nuances as to why that is. Some killers being changed frequently so people play against them like their old versions, PUB stomping, etc etc with no real way for survivors to easily access information on them to learn to counter them better. It's why in the past I suggested categorizing it all in an easy to find tab in the character select screen that can have a red ! every time they get changed.
That said, if the target is 60%, it's going to be tough in a game like this to keep it at exactly 60% across all killers without unfairly nerfing them. I mean, just look at the SM backlash right now as proof of that and she's sitting at 70%. I think the better spots would be roughly around 59%-62% if accounting for every possible scenario, without leaving the killer in a state that feels like it's missing half it's power. -
@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803178#Comment_3803178
Yes in the discord stream
Google search isn't giving me a video on this, just all people talking about the update.
If anyone has a source I'd like to see what they said on this. -
Boil Over on survivor side, because I usually only see it when they try to abuse heights like Eyrie of Crows.
It's kinda hard to say for killer side, but I guess old eruption is a good contender. -
Did they devs state they wanted killrates higher than 60% now?
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Honestly, I agree.
It would encourage survivors to chain their loops a bit more since the haste+breaking animation even with brutal doesn't guarantee a hit unless they run into a deadzone, and you will catch up in time before they attempt to just hold W to a different tile.
Plus you'd be committing to 2 chase perks to do so, more than likely you won't have the haste in the next loop to aid you on top of it. I think that's a good buff to Game Afoot. -
@Brimp said:
She will without a doubt become a bottom 5 killer if the changes go through. 10% hinder should stay but haste goes. Raise the skill floor and not lower the skill ceiling to only as high as Danny Devito. Let alone 1 scan line and being able to be seen from beyond 16 meters is already a huge gut to her kit. Maybe they really want people to be able to play with their monitors turned off against SM.
With the change to corrective action having synergy with hyperfocus+another survivor with those perks? I'm more convinced of this every day.
I already saw some people defend that combo because 'distortion nerf.' -
@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3802361#Comment_3802361
Meanwhile I'm just suffering from random packet loss, going from 30 MS ping to 1100
Ever open a locker at 10,000 ping? I wouldn't recommend it :P
I also get those moments from time to time.
At least I'll know when it's just me or everyone in a lobby though. -
Lightborn doesn't stall the game
Quite the opposite in fact, if survivors stop trying to blind and do gens instead. -
To most of us, I hope, that want the game in a healthier spot we agree with this.
Problem is people will always bring up a nerf on their side to justify it, even if the thing changed for them made sense as to why it was changed. And I would have been fine with some SM nerfs if they also made sense and had other areas of her kit adjusted for compensation.
We didn't get that, we got a massive nerf to appease survivors until the next rework, making her even worse for both sides. I'd be equally mad if they took Sprint Burst, changed the haste to 25% for 2 seconds and call it a day until it gets reworked because some killers don't like SB. -
@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801447#Comment_3801447
I‘m not suggesting it because I think it is good, but the best nerf they can give it to it, you know. I prefer this nerf much more than what they have planned
I'd agree with that as well, considering I use DMS on Sadako due to how her TVs work.
Shame I had VCR nerfed on my build and now DMS. Didn't have to run other gen defense with that combo. -
It's current form is too weak to be a hex. It would have to block gens every time you release it to balance around being cleansed immediately as a drawback.
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@Rick1998 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800843#Comment_3800843
is there even anything left to nerf on her ?
I wouldn't put it past them to find something.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800984#Comment_3800984
i have only used on tombstone myer's builds and didn't find any real value from the perk. i can't see myself using it on any killer. i randomed rolled the perk in chaos shuffle on 3 different killers. i activate the perk a couple times in those matches and didn't see anything special.
The main thing that was keeping it back was the activation conditions.
As someone who enjoys trying to force every killer to be a stealth killer, this will probably be the best way to do it after the buff. Slap on Deadlock to see your next patrol spot, Unforseen, Furtive Chase or Dark Devotion to fill in other undetectable niches, maybe Surge or Pop depending on the killer to buy a little time and that 10% haste will help most killers sail around the map.
Given time I could probably craft a pretty oppressive stealth build with this change, which is exactly why I see the haste as a problem. -
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800841#Comment_3800841
machine learning i predict will still be unpopular because it requires you to kick gens and you only 5 uses at max with like average being 1-2. i bet that nobody will use this perk and they'll buff it a 4th time. it has to be running meme at this point.
I'll probably be running it on my stealth builds, personally. I'll get some mileage on it alongside Unforseen, I think.
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Meanwhile I'm having the time of my life placing candelabras behind rocks for the killers to fall for, shooting blindly into the dark toward any gen sounds as Slinger, and playing T1 only Myers and Wolf only Dracula.
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If they nerf Sadako like this, which I hope they won't because the rates we usually see posted are from around the time 2.0 become 3.0, but if they DO nerf Sadako the same way they did SM? I'll probably drop the game.
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I've talked about SM enough the other day, so I will reply to Machine Learning instead.
I believe you're 100% right. I despise easy to obtain haste in all forms. MFT deserved it's nerf too, nobody can tell me otherwise. Machine Learning already has a full minute of Undetectable as is, and I think the haste is going to be the bigger issue.
Now, you could have it disable every time a survivor takes a health state, but personally I'd just remove the haste. I do like they're making it easier to use, because having more strong perks in different areas other than regression is always welcome, but the way this game functions with loops? Haste needs to be a reward for more riskier plays, like current MFT or Blood Pact. It also makes me worry that Teamwork: Power of Two will become a problem since it doesn't deactivate on injury with a pretty generous range on it, but I hope I'm wrong about that. -
Actually this one confuses me too.
Freddy makes sense, since dream world most likely is tied to the same lighting and fog code as Lights Out, but Dredge is a massive oversight even from the previous iteration. Should really disable the nightfall + auras during nightfall and just give him the locker teleport speed for the duration his 'nightfall' is active, so his other addons that revolve around it work.Edit: I just remembered addons aren't active in Lights Out, doi. Ignore that last part.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800119#Comment_3800119
Yeah there are a lot of issues, but for many people SM is merely 'the straw that breaks the camel's back'. There are a lot of flaws with the game, but since they are independent enough they can largely be ignored when you don't reach that critical breaking point.
I think 2v8 is solely responsible for the returning players, but I've lost a 2nd IRL friend permanently to the game because the sum flaws are too great. He was off and on then came back for 2v8, played 2 weeks to a month, then hard quit (as in actually hard uninstalled the game, not even leaving it on the harddrive in a 'I might play it occasionally' kind of way).
I think this is the problem though, her past 8 reworks (hyperbole) all have been focused on being more fun for both sides, and they fail every time. Personally I think they are actually doing 2/4 required nerfs to her, alongside needlessly dropping 2 scans to 1. I think they could return to 2 scans if they remove auto-resets for Drones, and add sound cues/lullaby for her in stealth.
I've had friends quit over things in the game too, but they came back. Much like most who quit, it seems. Even I've taken extended breaks from time to time, it's natural to feel burnt out or overwhelmed at times due to additions/changes.
That is reflected in the steam charts as well, very clearly even. And stalling changes is the main reason we keep seeing this as well.
As far as her reworks, however, I'll give you that. They tend to keep dropping the ball on some things. Some killers have felt better with their adjustments and reworks, like Singularity and Sadako (to an extent. Personally I still think she needs a bit more tuning) while I think SM is just stuck with the stigma, unless drones get a COMPLETE overhaul on how they function.A strange thing I notice with this community is even when things are drastically changed, they stick to their stigmas of certain characters. Like frosty eyes = NOED, or all Dwights hide in lockers, or every Nea is toxic etc etc. I honestly believe SM will never escape that, either.
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@mizark3 said:
Destroy the game by leaving SM as is, or butcher her (temporarily) and make the game playable for everyone else. Wow, tough choice /s.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800095#Comment_3800095
Since they have kind of proven that they only make things worse when they try to rework Killers, it is far better for the health of the game to remove the problematic elements. We don't have old MfT, and I had no problem going against that as Killer (partially because SB was my personal bane). We removed MfT since too many Killers had a problem going against it, just as most Survivors have a problem going against SM. If you want to reinstate MfT and keep SM, I'd join you in a burn the game to the ground kind of way, but in the meantime, maybe we should put out fires instead of starting more.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800098#Comment_3800098
Sadly they will only allocate resources where money is. Survivors quitting the game due to a poorly designed Killer means less money coming in. Reworking an older Killer doesn't always work (see Twins), and you don't get the revenue for another sale since the playerbase already owns them. This is the most cost effective option (sadly), thus nerf SM.
Except we aren't hemorrhaging players because of SM alone. If that were the case, DBD would be dead by now considering how long she's been an issue to the loudest haters of her.
Even steamcharts shows the usual ebb and flow DBD gets, slightly higher these days even after a huge uptick in March and the Anniversary. And that's just Steam alone.
I'm sure if they focused better on making SM fun for both sides earlier and more clearly to the community it wouldn't have been an issue with player retention. This goes for any killer rework they have planned, considering we're still waiting for Myers and Freddy. -
They're aware how long it takes to make adjustments to things, especially with how they pump out content, and then do stuff like this. It's so strange to me.
Why not allocate your resources better for killer reworks? There's a lot of issues the game has, and they're only compounding it by putting things on the backburner constantly and nerfing things like this. I understand this is live service and all, but it's still a slap to the face to anyone who bought SM, those who think she deserved it or not. -
@nam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800004#Comment_3800004
Enjoy ur tbag and ggez then
Sometimes you just have to ignore it. People who do that, I just assume they don't win often and have to vent it somehow.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800000#Comment_3800000
I just don't know how you can implement aura reading blocking as consistently as Distortion does. The reason why it was used so much was due to the fact that it tells you information about the perk that was used, your aura blocked, and allowed you to do risky behavior such as staying on a generator if BBQ and Chili for example. As I said in some other post, a fun build I had was the combo of Poised (people state how niche it is) and Distortion, both perks complemented one another as killers have gotten so used to not defending a generator if they don't see the aura pop up on a gen. It was a clean getaway and always catch killers off by surprise when a generator would pop and they think no one is there. This supposed change guts that niche build that I came up with on my own, which affects strategy and gameplay adaptability.
Again, there might be people who use the perk maliciously, sure (I've never seen it, but I won't discredit other people's experiences as survivor). However, hammering down on perks and making them a glory of its former self is exhausting to read over and over in patch notes repeatedly. There are many people, Otzdarva included that said that it should stay as a token system and recharge in chase -- that would have been a fine change, but Behavior likes to continuously make these perks so niche to the point that people no longer use these perks, it's actually a disgrace as someone who likes to use different builds and enjoys the element of finding little perk combos that go well together.
On a side note, that is a nice combo for Onryo especially for her needing of information tracking and teleporting.
I actually think the consistency is the problem, personally. Something being far too consistent will always be an issue, like old 3 gens with Eruption. It was too easy for some survivors to simply hide with Distortion and let their team die for it.
That said, my suggestion to hide aura reads by other means with perks that counter specific aura reads, or at least a decent amount. We can also shift Distortion to 2 stacks every chase or hook to fill in any smaller outliers, since it does counter stuff like NTH and Floods of Rage pretty naturally.
Also thank you, I tend to try very unorthodox builds on my Sadako. Though the DMS nerf is going to make things problematic for my build, but I will find a way around it. -
My suggestion is to not focus too hard on SWF being a constant issue.
SWF can be a problem, yes, but it's not going to be a constant. You'll never have fun if you're worried about SWF every match. Play a killer you wanna play, put on addons/perks to help just in case (personally I run lightborn to avoid the current flashbang at wall thing) and just play your best. Maybe it sounds optimistic, but I'm not nearly as stressed playing like this. -
@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799989#Comment_3799989
So why not just change the perk so it can't be used for holding the game hostage. Did the perk also need to become substantially weaker?
They could give it three tokens that can't be regenerated till the survivor is chased or hooked. That would keep it's original function, make it weaker against aura builds (instead of making it nearly useless), and stop survivors holding the game hostage.
The devs didn't need to use the sledgehammer.
I agree with that too. I never said the change was 100% perfect, just that I understand the justification for the change and that we should be asking for more options instead of depending on one perk for every aura situation.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799989#Comment_3799989
I agree, but what type of changes would you create for other perks that provide your aura being red? The proposed changes I mentioned like making it so that it's tied to in game mechanics like doing generators is by itself not holding the game hostage, yet another player stated this perceived change would cause less interaction with the killer.
Put simply, there's too much aura reading in the game. I have no idea why we need this much when we simply have tell-tale signs of crows moving to know that a survivor was just there. Additionally, they've made locating survivor scratch marks more discernible as well. Even when Distortion was in the top ten perks - I played Onyro with Spies from the Shadow and I would consistently 4k and I had no aura reading and could easily find survivors simply by spawning to the TVs near my gens or even outright ignoring gens that were not worthy of being defended (they're not my three gens). Killers have so many tools that they could easily utilize, yet when a perk that blocks the extreme amounts of aura reading (this primarily became a conversation at the forefront when Friends Til The End was created) and people couldn't get value from it.
I've also been accused of cheating as well as killer, but that doesn't change my stance on why we need so much aura reading to help a killer — who already has so many advantages and an easier chance to find survivors and keeping pressure on throughout the duration of the game.
Probably for the sake of variety. Again, while there can be lots of aura reading options, it does not mean all forms of aura read are being used that often.
On my own Sadako, I use gen blocking perks to locate where to go next. Stuff like DMS or Thrilling Tremors. And I often get matches where two survivors hide with Distortion instead of assisting their teams, forcing me to scour for 10 minutes going in and out of power using Distorted Photo to try and get them to scream after their friends are dead just so I can find them since I don't have aura read specifically for them and enough of it to burn through the stacks. Even if I don't use aura aside her Distorted Photo, I can recognize just because there's a lot of aura doesn't mean it's always going to be an issue if you can recognize what they run and adapt to it, much like how killer has to adapt to what survivors bring.I do think, however, more options for survivors are welcome for aura blocking as well instead of putting all our horses on Distortion just in general. Survivors should have options for perks they want to try and counter, just as killer should.
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799977#Comment_3799977
The fact that the devs felt the need to add a disclaimer to what they said, is depressing. Any normal person could tell they were talking about overall numbers, and not saying that slugging doesn't exist. There's been so many people reacting like it's a personal attack. It's so bizzare.
Unfortunately, this community tends to forget the overall and focus on their own experiences too often and the worst parts of their matches. Can't say I'm immune to that either, I'm sure I've made errors in thinking too. Simply just a part of being a community we need to recognize.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799973#Comment_3799973
I think it's pretty common in most games to see two aura reading perks and two gen regressing perks.
A noticeable build you see a lot of the time in top level play is Lethal Pursuer, BBQ and Chili, Pain Resonance, and Pop Goes The Weasel.
It doesn't change how oppressive it is and you can easily swap out an aura perk for another — you could do Pop and Nowhere To Hide as it synergizes well. Regardless, as Firellius claimed there is a powercreep when it comes to the amount of aura reading in the game. It's not necessarily the limited amount of that killers can bring, it's the fact that there are perks that can easily show your aura without any notification for it unlike Hex: Undying for example which notifies you when you pass a dull totem. There are too many aura perks that are tied to specific things that survivors do and it's getting too convuluted to know when, where, and how you were spotted when you're practically unaware that a killer is coming to your direction. There was counterplay with BBQ and Undying as you can guess where the killer is going, but there is no counterplay to the remainder of the stronger ones that Behavior has created — this also causes issues and overlaps with people who are cheating in the game as any little thing can cause aura reading, which is what cheaters do with their wallhacks (making it harder to discern who is cheating and who is not).
That's why I also suggested this:
@ChaosWam said:
Hear me out. Distortion has been to go-to for a lot of stealth plays, to the point it's getting nerfed for being too potent. I propose more perks should have the addition of hiding auras, in meaningful ways. For example:
- Perks that hide scratch marks also hide your aura for the duration. Examples being Dance With Me, Parental Guidance, Deception and Babysitter for examples. The only one I can think of that may not need it is Yui's perk Lucky Break.
- Perks that would be better with them in meaningful ways, like Bite The Bullet.
- Perhaps even new perks that enable hiding your aura when doing specific actions if that's more balanced, within reason of course.
Any other thoughts on this?
We shouldn't try to hang onto Distortion in it's current form, allowing for games to be held hostage in exchange for these defenses. While I do think most aura reads have tells and ways to work around them, I also think survivors should have more reasonable choices too, aside Distortion.
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Apparently.
A follow up post was made about it too.
No matter how you feel about it, this is what the stats argue. Feels oddly close to home with killer killrates showing how Freddy is in the top 10 and Nurse is in the lower bracket, doesn't it?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799961#Comment_3799961
I wasn't talking about killers bringing in 4 aura perks, and I don't know why you think that I was.
That's how this is being portrayed though, as if killers are bringing so much aura read there's no way to have a moment without being seen without Distortion. Not saying that's you saying it at all, but that's one talking points I see a lot.
Once you understand and notice which perks the killer has, you can easily work around it.
NTH? Pre-run to a loop instead, or keep your distance to see if the killer approaches despite you hiding, as well as Distortion telling you even post change. Lethal? Distortion will still let you know. Weave tells you when you're effected by it, etc etc. -
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799954#Comment_3799954
I don't think you understand my point.
BBQ & Chili kept pressure up on survivors by directing the killer towards survivors, but the newer aura reading perks do that too, on top of completely removing the survivors' ability to hide. (Save for lockers, which are next on the chopping block)
I know that these perks are working as intended. But just because it is intentional powercreep, doesn't mean it's not powercreep, or not a problem.
Did we get confirmation on lockers being changed?
Also, no, I didn't misunderstand you. I'm saying if a killer has all aura read to the point people think they do, they're more than likely not going to win unless they're Nurse, or they're also good at loops. Heck I've seen BBQ by itself complained about and I've personally been called a hacker a few times using it on Dredge. -
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3799812#Comment_3799812
And BBQ still has a range requirement?
Yes, but none of the newer aura reading perks do. Those all highlight you, even if you're hiding nearby.
Probably because they're geared towards doing that?
NTH prevents survivors from sticking too close to a gen constantly, Lethal helps with early game and some extra auras to make sure it's not wasted after the first 6 seconds of the game, BBQ is to incentivize going far from hook, Floods of Rage for finding a target post unhook or going for the unhooker and only gets value on unhook, etc etc.
Killers aren't running all of these at once either, they need to pick aura reads to fill in the spaces for their build or killer. Aside maybe Nurse, who we all agree could use a decent nerf to prevent her from being too overbearing with aura reads. And even then, aura read doesn't automatically make you good in chase, it just helps you locate your next chase quicker or assists in mindgames in very specific situations. For example Sadako's Distorted Photo, which I love to use to assist in early mindgames at loops, is ONLY useful in specific situations and doesn't stop survivors from throwing pallets and vaulting windows to keep away.Edit: Except maybe Weave Attunement. That one's getting changed soon though, hopefully to a more fair state.
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@HolyDarky said:
I've said this in other posts but I want this: Nerfing Distortion this way is good but now the developers have to buff other perks with an aura blocking effect: Bite The Bullet is an awfully bad perk but when it blocks aura reading during the heal, it can become a really good perk (protects you in your (teammates) weakest moment. Poised could get aura blocking for 30sec whenever a generator is completed. Friendly Competition could also get the aura blocking on top of it. With these changes, bad perks would become better which means we would see more variety on the survivorside instead of the same perks. I have a similar opinion about WoO. It is better to nerf these clutch-Perks rather hard and then give other perks a bit of their effect to make these perks better.
However, we have to be careful to not slap the aura blocking part on too many perks because otherwise we would be in the same situation where aura perks become useless and every killer runs full slowdown while also preventing the survivor situation where a Distortion user hides all the time which results in killer is more likely to tunnel. Aura perks are healthy for the game because many of them tells the killer to neither camp or tunnel and to not run full slowdown so sitting on a gen takes forever (If I want to complete a generator, I bug a generator simulator on steam).
That is my intention exactly. Add more aura blocking where it makes sense without repeating the same thing Distortion did.