ChaosWam
ChaosWam
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796011#Comment_3796011
you realize these changes will be put into normal mode eventually? remember 60 second of endurance also comes with 10% haste for 60 seconds, so if you try tunnel people, you're going be in a world pain. BVHR is really putting the gas on peddle. Anti-camp and Anti-tunnel features.
There is certainly going to be A LOT less tunneling and camping in this mode. that is for sure.
That's not the problem though. As I said in my other posts, it's weaponizing them that's the issue, IF it comes to main game.
For Lights Out, it makes sense due to how Lights Out functions.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796021#Comment_3796021
It never is a problem, more of a mild nuisance. If they want to open themselves up to tunneling, this is them giving you a free pass to do so. This is the one of the only times I 100% endorse tunneling (I guess also 2 Survivors alive, and you want the rescuer to get Hatch is another).
That's kinda why it's a problem.
At best, it's paired with DS to waste the killer's time as much as possible, especially against killers trying to spread hooks.
At worst, the survivor dies quickly and loses their entire team's pressure against killers who would tunnel. It's not healthy either way.
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@Bookern said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796011#Comment_3796011
They do that already with OTR though? so by that logic OTR needs to be nerfed? Like yeah its gonna be weaponized but conspicous actions will keep it from going crazy
So free OTR makes it fine?
And yeah, OTR's problem is the bodyblocking. -
In normal, it would be too much.
In lights out, it can work a bit better since killer is undetectable. The reason it should NEVER come to normal DBD is due to survivors weaponizing the free 60 seconds to bodyblock killers trying to spread hooks. -
Overused.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's OP. But I do think anyone using it is doing themselves a disservice. If you're good at loops, have the spawn knowledge down and have a good eye, you can get the same value and still have another perk instead.
Also, a lot of blindness addons/perks have too many restrictions to counter it reliably for those who do have trouble facing it. The best one would be Hex: Third Seal but is a hex, so, you know…
That said, if survivors feel like they need it, good for them.
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@SoGo said:
Ok so, I like the idea of separting repair and sabotage.
Also, I think that keys should all be able to be used to instantly open a chest. There could also be an add-on that makes it so it won't consume the key.
Regarding the new iri items, I wonder if them being a chest - specific item would be good or bad
I like your key idea, I'll add that in.
The Iri items being chest only would also be a good idea. I want them to be somewhat different than how the other items are used as it is, with how the flashlight and toolbox function. I couldn't think of a proper one for the wrench items, though. -
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795844#Comment_3795844
Sure, I didn't miss that point.
But you also have to admit that if the game is telling a solo player that they'll win about 50% more games if they just choose killer instead, that's a pretty big problem.
There really isn't any fixing the capabilities of the average player. They aren't going to become instantly better overnight, or start doing gens because the patch notes told them to.
But if you take those players and put them in a shoe box with nothing to loop (like haddonfield) they're going to struggle even more. And if the choice is between fighting tooth and nail as solo survivor and maybe, sometimes come out ok, or turn your monitor off and play killer... What do you think people will gravitate to?
That isn't necessarily the case either, though.
Maybe the top tiers, but you still need to learn each killer. It's not as black and white saying "Oh just play any killer and you'll win." That's probably only viable in low mmr. Once they face better survivors that will shift drastically, especially if they lack the perks needed to catch up with prepared and coordinated squads.
But I do agree, the average player needs more help, but it shouldn't come at the cost of nerfing killers across the board.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
To the people who say this is a solo queue problem:
So for players who play DbD alone: if they choose survivor they should expect to lose most of the time, but if they choose killer they should dominate most of the time.
I don't think that "you picked the wrong role to play solo" is indicative of a healthy game balance. Especially since at least 60% of survivors and 100% of killers play solo. That's a pretty big problem that should really be addressed, not blown off.
The problem we're pointing out is that most of these issues aren't due to killers being broken, it's other survivors not pulling their weight for whatever reason. Throwing for tome challenges, making mistakes constantly, not doing gens, etc.
I mostly run SoloQ myself. And my best games are when survivors are doing the gens, or if I decide to make a gen build for them. -
This is a SoloQ issue, not an 'overpowered killers' issue.
I'm escaping pretty evenly. -
@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795502#Comment_3795502
To be fair, playing with 8 survivors was also equally a new experience.
Not really, just the amount of survivors.
I'd argue it was far more appealing due to duo-killers since most people will have an extra friend to tag along, instead of up to 7 other friends. -
I see it swap every once in awhile depending on the time of day, in whatever server I'm in.
Also.@mecca said:
During 8v2, even 400%. was not enough. Maybe more killers need buffed.
Gonna put on my thinking cap for a second. Why would 2v8, the first game mode after 8 years where we can play 2 killers at the same time with a friend, have the bonus on survivor side?
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They need to overhaul how they inspect reported matches at this rate, this is unacceptable.
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@mizark3 said:
I think it is called Apex Fallacy. The general assumption is taken from the highest subset group, instead of the mean/median/mode, or any other normal metric. Anyone claiming that it is such a free win for Survivor, should just show 10 games back to back as Survivor getting a 3/4 out with randoms. They would quickly backtrack their claim and recognize that they are falling under this Apex Fallacy, or lie to your face and make up excuses.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/K892A0QG8EOP/dbdkillrateslatest.png
When 4-SWFs in High-MMR can't even break the 50% barrier, the game clearly isn't remotely close to Survivor sided (especially when ~50-60% of matches are soloq, and that is less than 40% escape rate).
Aren't we forgetting that BHVR's target is 60% killrate? These numbers pretty much go in line with that.
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I can't wait to outplay all the no-mither with sloppy, nurse's calling and leverage
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Say it with me again everyone:
SWF > Killer > SoloQ -
I know your argument is that you want a survivor on the ground to help with gens and whatnot, but is that really the case?
The reason hooking creates pressure is, yes, that survivor isn't doing anything to assist the team, but also that survivor might die and leave them with one less survivor. If it were indefinite, survivors could stick to gens until the next chase guaranteed, and it takes one good looper for the other two to finish gens and grab that survivor in the time it takes to down, hook, find the next one and start the next chase. Especially in bigger maps.Mind you, this is in a normal match without the killer camping or patrolling the hook and nearby gens.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793864#Comment_3793864
Yes. But remember you would have to be slugged for a while to get any meaningfull buffs for a while which is by desing. Killer let you bleed for long time? Now is your chance to pay that lost time back + some extra damage for him.
This may effect normal gameplay too. It's not uncommon to be in standoffs between grabbing a survivor and one or two other survivors hovering around with flashlights. Even a 50% bonus would be detrimental.
You also have to account for early unhooks if the killer wins these encounters. Killers may tunnel even more to prevent that kind of repair speed. -
I'd rather stealth killers be viable, thanks.
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If you walk out in the middle of a sports game, do you expect to be able to join the next one with no penalty or reaction from the other players/coordinators?
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Feels like a case-by-case basis.
Blight had hug tech for years, Wesker still has his, Wolf is getting the axe soon, Knight's guards becoming a feature, this stuff is usually down to how the devs see it.
Personally I hate the CJ techs at pallets and lockers only because it exploits the fact killer has no options between grabbing a survivor or opening a locker/breaking a pallet as seperate keybinds, but have to respect it's a tactic in-game if the devs have no plans to fix it. Same way I see the removal of techs ultimately down to the devs if they think it's problematic or not. I do think the community should speak up if the majority of us enjoy these things or not though, and be heard on these topics if it's a widely accepted tech or whatnot. -
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793852#Comment_3793852
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793856#Comment_3793856
It would deactive everytime you are not bleeding on the ground (dying state). So if the killer picks you up or you go to injured state (with help or not) you will start loosing tokens, even if you are about to be on hoook / sitting on the hook.
So you could potentially retain the bonus if you're unhooked early or flashlight saved?
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@totallynotamegmain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793856#Comment_3793856
true, but to be fair getting 100% would take almost half of your bleed out timer
I don't know if that tradeoff would be fair, considering that much of a repair bonus rivals commodious toolboxes taking the decay in mind.
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Would it deactivate if hooked or escaping the killer's grasp? Otherwise it could be pretty broken with a near 100% repair speed, especially if paired with perks like DS to try and intentionally be slugged if the killer thinks you're running it.
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If I see a health update for this game, I'd want it to focus on the bugs and tightening up the code over balance personally, as well as better ways to close loopholes script abusers are exploiting.
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Hug tech is debatable, personally I didn't practice it because I knew it would be removed eventually.
I've faced Dracs, they're no SM and I'm not going to pretend they're anywhere close to that.
Insta-Hit is a bug being removed and not a feature, so you can't really pin that on them.
Other killers can zone with their M2's like Nemesis and Pyramid Head. Dracula's M2 isn't as wide as Pyramid's to boot and makes it easy to dodge if you're paying attention. Not to mention, it can't hit over tall walls so the only time it can hit you is if you can also see him readying it.
But the most confusing part of this is saying his transformations have no cooldown. Have you researched this killer?
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3793152#Comment_3793152
Sorry…not mid-match. The person who ratted me out had already been sacrificed. I saw they were still spectating on the menus. I put two and two together since the killer was very obvious about it and the person was still spectating even though they were long sacrificed.
That makes more sense. Yeah, that's another oversight even I forgot about.
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I am not familiar with the console versions, but can you contact the killer mid match? I thought you could only see their ID post-game.
That aside, working with the killer is annoying. I've had survivors assume I'd aid them by ratting out their teammates too, and they end up on hook first to allow the other one time to run. -
@Akumakaji said:
It doesnt need much of a nerf, but that it is uncounterable when you are standing on it and even got blinded if you look straight up, that is just some BS that needs to go.
Its not exactly "no skill", because you need to learn the 1.5s timer correctly, but thats manageable and opening up a lot of "uncounterable" situations that are just unbelievable frustrating.
Pretty much my only complaint too.
Otherwise I do think flashbang is alright. I get impressed with survivors managing to get blinds around corners and stealth drops. It's just not fun when you pick up at a wall and it can bypass entirely and easily have a second one crafted in a short time. Pretty much the only reason I run lightborn, aside from Unknown for the fake-clone mindgame. -
Good thing I didn't practice it.
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Oni.
Too lazy to edit mouse DPI.
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It's quite divisive.
On one hand, it could make for some interesting back and forth if the killer can hear it too. On the other hand, if you've played any other online multiplayer game… -
It's probably the best survivor skin I've seen, if only it had voice lines in-game.
It also makes playing Dracula abysmal, because I'm always fighting the urge to give them hatch. -
I'm not sure where this was said, but I always had the two separated in my own mind anyway.
Sandbagging being throwing a pallet before your teammate reaches it, blocking windows, blocking small paths or doorways from your teammate and so on.
While body blocking is just simply taking a hit for your teammate whose about to go down or is on death hook, to assist someone to the exit gate, or to block off the killer's path through doorways and whatnot.
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Nothing has changed for me, I never dodged lobbies on purpose.
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@ays12151 said:
I had weird idea back in the days. Nowadays Killer have 3 overall statistics - height, Terror range & base move speed. There should be more statistics for Killers like for example: Stun duration with a Pallet, Stun duration with DS, Breaking Speed, Vaulting Speed & more. For example Trapper would have Brutal Strenght base kit and shorter stun from DS - where Nurse would have like 6 or 7 seconds stun with DS. These type of modifications.
Honestly it sounds like a nightmare to set up, but I do like this idea. It would mean their powers could even be buffed to compensate in other areas.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Yeah, BHVR are actually a shadowy cabal of Killer Mains, they sit in cloaks around a large obsidian table all discussing how to bring the kill rates up.
"KILLER MAINS RUN THE PLANET"
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I don't think I've ever seen BHVR sponsor a content creator's video quite like this. Interesting.
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I think he's alright. Not too strong, not too weak, plenty to manage and keep in mind. A bit clunky though.
Also, some places hellfire should go over don't, like the candy counter in Greenville Square.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/VOFTTJE9HLWG/image.png
alright y'all we can close the thread now, i did it!
You absolute monster!
Skype?!
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I think the problem may be funding.
Maps are generally free in this game, you can play them without paying for the DLC they are from. They also cost money to make, usually offset by the sales of cosmetics, dlcs and aurics. If they got map-only crossovers, they may have to pay out of pocket for both making the map and paying for the license, if I understand it right.
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Wouldn't 'cookie cutter' just be all M1 killers, instead of killers who have different ways to use M2 or different strengths/weaknesses around their powers?
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@PuddleOfBludd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790514#Comment_3790514
What is your point? Perks and add ons change outcomes should we eliminate those? Again this is about you not liking to lose. That is a personal problem. Maps are only “changing” the outcomes in your head because you’re using them as a straw man. You want to use BP offerings? Do it, but if a map is played 🤷. Otherwise use sacrificial ward.
Obviously not, but maps have a bigger sway on the game than perks, addons, and other offerings. We know this very well, considering the community has hatred for maps like Garden of Joy, Midwich, The Game, Wrecker's Yard and Eyrie of Crows for this specific reason.
And again you're dodging my question, how does randomizing the map pool entirely not benefit skill expression?
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I still don't understand why left side of main (looking towards it from street) has no loops. It used to have an entire house that, honestly, didn't have bad or overpowered loops in it. Even a pallet loop with the hedges would have been nice.
And it could do better with a sight blocker in the middle of the road.
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@PuddleOfBludd said:
So you want to promote more toxicity? This will just lead to allowing toxic survivors to farm in SoloQ. “I’ll just stay on this gen and leave them on hook. They can’t do anything about it.” Yeah, no thanks. I have already been in SoloQ games where I HAD to unhook myself because nobody was coming and I was almost to stage 2.This is a terrible suggestion.
I'm not so sure people who are ignoring survivors on hooks are the ones self-unhooking to get out of a match.
If anything, people will just afk until they die in exchange, which at least gives the killer something else to hit and waste some time. Or, they decide to at least try out of a lack of patience if they don't just DC.
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@PuddleOfBludd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790479#Comment_3790479
So don’t play the match. Everyone else shouldn’t be restricted from using offerings because you don’t like them. Maybe we should eliminate BP offerings because some killers play like jerks when there’s a bunch of party streamers or anniversary cakes played. Don’t like that idea? Cool then stop complaining and use what is available to you if you don’t want to go to certain maps.
That's also a very poor argument. And it avoids my question entirely.
You can't equate BP offerings and player behavior with using map offerings to give your team clear advantages. Do BP gains change the outcome like map offerings can?
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@PuddleOfBludd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790150#Comment_3790150
There’s a reason sacrificial ward exists.
whenever nobody is playing a map offering, we generally get the same three or four maps repeatedly, over and over. Yes, different iterations of them but still, it gets boring seeing Coldwind Farms, Autohaven, MacMillan and Crotus Penn over and over. Map offerings are a good way to break that up.
What you’re really saying is you don’t like LOSING and you’re blaming the offerings. As I said, if you don’t want to go to someone else’s map, play the sacrificial ward. The only way that gets canceled out is if four people play the same map. Oh wait, that’s a SWF problem. Funny how it always leads back to that.Not to interject, but I don't think sacrificial ward is a good enough excuse.
I've been on the receiving end of many survivors using offerings to get an advantage at times where I'm just trying to use BP offerings. If we wanted to bring in losing or winning, wouldn't adapting to a randomly selected map be the bigger show of skill, instead of stacking the odds in your favor regardless of which side you play?
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790427#Comment_3790427
It could also be intentional due to how it's half as reliable as Pyramid Head's M2?
Honestly I have hit more hits with Hellfire in the past 4 days, than I have ever hit with Pyramid Head's M2.
Its probably so much better and easier to use than anything else I ever used in this game, so I dont see how you get to "half as reliable" idd say hellfire is 10 times better than PH, but this is a weird tangent.I say half as reliable because, literally, it can't go through walls and tall obstacles like Pyramid Head's can. Good example are maps like Hawkins or some areas of The Game. Heck, most rock pallet loops have tall enough rocks to stop it. Pyramid Head can at least snipe through obstacles more often than hellfire. Not to mention it won't come out entirely if you're too close to a wall sometimes, regardless of size. Had that happen in RPD loops, which means you can't entirely hug walls in chase and get a quick snipe if it decides it can't spawn the first pillar.
Not to say hellfire isn't useful where it can be, but it has quite a few restrictions compared to Pyramid Head's.
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@dwight444 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790437#Comment_3790437
there is very little you can do at the start but get an early down because gens are gonna go no matter what. You can't apply enough pressure that early without a down. I wouldn't call 90 seconds 'quick', but if your 3 teammates know to split gens then 3 gens will go 'quickly' but only because they're splitting them. The gens don't 'fly' as much as the number of gens completed in a small window does.
you're right, you can only chase 1 guy off a gen unless like in the example op described where they stacked a gen which would just further highlight how that's just not a good example of gens being too fast. Killer pressures a stacked gen and now you're screwed and need to wait for him to leave the area or go start another gen at the expense of all the time wasted on the stacked gen
personally, they could nerf TBs and it's all the same for my experience. Just seems like overkill to address the very specific matches where players load up with gen builds. Even then, people will complain gens are still too fast
In my experience, no survivor is doing the full 90 seconds without a toolbox if they can help it, a way to recharge the toolbox, deja vu, prove thyself, or any combination in between. The ones who do usually are the ones who can't finish a gen that's being pressured.
As far as pressuring a stacked gen, there's always going to be one or two others pressuring other gens while the killer tries to stop a 80-90% gen being pressured by two survivors near competent loops as well. I'd like to avoid nerfing loops in this scenario, because as you've brought up SoloQ isn't perfect and can't account for survivors using their resources, but can account for gen speeds when it comes to multistacking, but that's neither here nor there due to a number of outside issues. Which again is why I like the idea of capping progression/regression values instead of anything else.
Or as you've said, nerf TBs and go from there.
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@dwight444 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3790410#Comment_3790410
it would only make solo q suck even more (and gens even more of a bore). They already love to stack gens that end up getting wiped with PR instead of splitting gens - a bigger penalty would not deter them; high mmr and good swfs would adapt but solo q would just continue to be solo q.
I personally don't see toolboxes often in my lobbies, usually it's medkits and flashlights. Once in a while one person brings a toolbox but it's certainly not tilting the match in our favor. I'd be curious to see usage stats in solo q for toolboxes.
most of the time, players cherry pick one match where they see x perk, x item and go 'wow, op'. 3 guys on 1 gen is already inefficient unless it's the last gen or a 3 gen w/ progress. Most players should understand gens fly in early game, that's just how it goes. Coming to forum to relay their experience where 2, 3 gens pop in the first 2 minutes is not really the issue they make it out to be. That means 1 guy is outplaying the killer hard so they can do 3 gens uninterrupted. It also means the killer is probably not that good since he didn't recognize a long time ago to drop that chase.
if killer in OP's match couldn't capitalize on 3 survivors working 1 gen then that's more of a player issue than a game issue. They exhaust all TBs to do 1 gen, ok 4 more to go. Sure, a focused (and not playing together just for fun) swf or high mmr lobby can abuse gen builds, however, that's not the majority of the player base - majority is solo q - aka the least likely group to be able to adapt to any nerfs and the ones who will feel the impact of any changes as usual.
I'm not asking for it to be kneecapped though? It does go quickly, and you can only chase one survivor off a gen at a time. Smart survivors hop right back on the gen if the killer targets one.
It's also not going to touch gen related perks either, just slow down the overtuning of stacking toolboxes and speeds. It's also only one of the three options I could think of. Personally I think capped speeds/%'s is the better alternative for both sides.