Blueberry
Blueberry
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It's nice to have at least one counter to CoH even if it's a specific killer. Not like we have any other counters for boons in the game realistically.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2917135#Comment_2917135
Lower mmr matches are tough or challenging because they haven't got good at the game yet while high mmr matches are the unfair ones. They've got everything totally backwards.
completely agree on that one.
Even if we were extremely generous and said they were B tier now, B tier in DBD is trash tier anyway and relies on the survivors making a ton of mistakes to win. I'd argue that not only B but even A tier killers can play a literal perfect game and still lose, that's how bad the balance problems are.
Yeah I would say that killers B-tier or lower killers are entirely reliant on survivor being playing poorly to win on every element of the game. I'd say A-tier what I refer to as Strong in DBD is the killer having some influence on the outcome of the match but only about half or little more than half the time, say 2/3(66%) of the time. S-tier being that the killer's skill entirely decides the outcome of the match. in reality, its suppose to mean that for every 10 matches you play, you should win 10/10 of them. I don't think any killer is truly winning 10/10 matches so I do not think S-tier killers really exist(again this is all my opinion) but you could definitely argue in the past that DBD did have some S-tier elements for killers... like old Ebony Mori's and old nurse.
With that being said, I don't think Legion or Ghostface is moving anywhere. I'd say Ghostface is probably going to be worse from playing PTB, most likely a C-tier killer somewhere around sadako/pig level. Legion is better...in the sense that he is physically down someone in his ability, but I think his counter-play is too easy without going into too much detail about it. He might be able to win average teams so perhaps B-tier but most likely still just a strong C-tier killer at best.
The strange aspect of legion's rework is that his best add-on is yellow meme bloodpoint farm add-on(sleeping pills). It increases the duration of feral frenzy by 10 seconds and this is like 2 green mural sketchbooks+1 yellow sketchbook. The drawback of moving at 115% m/s is not really drawback because of his buff where he gains 0.2 m/s per hit. You move at 120% m/s if you hit first person which should always occur otherwise, why in earth did you activate your ability? To put into perceptive, its like speed-limit billy being billy best add-on. They're marketing him as BP-farm machine.
I think you can see where I'm going with this. Enticing killers with more BP doesn't make me want to play weaker killers in losing matches. Playing weak killers is borderline demoralizing. I rather play strong killers because they're fun to play. possibility to win every match is more important. Don't think legion or Ghostface really give you the possibility to win every match, hence why most low-tier killers are not seen that much at higher MMR(low-variety for survivor).
Shortage of killer is by product of killers not being fun to play because they don't feel powerful. Not a bloodpoint problem.
Yeah I pretty much agree with all that.
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Always.
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A lot of tunneling and camping is a result of direct actions of the survivors or misplays on their part. Most people don't like to admit that because it's easier to make excuses than take responsibility.
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Wow your version of DH would be even more OP than the current version. We're trying to balance it, not buff it.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2916059#Comment_2916059
You know whats most funny aspect of this? the dev think that reducing MMR-cap is going make survivors face more variety of killers.. but the reality why there is no variety of killers is because killers are too weak and can't get to that MMR with their skill because they're balancing for * most * killer powers is so atrocious.
Instead of trying to play around with matchmaking, they should be making changes to killer so that killers can physically win the game with their own skill to be able to compete at that level of play organically.
The lack of killers comes from the lack of fun playing killer. They're not making killer more fun to play. For last year or so, they've been making killer less fun to play. Anything that is fun to play is just getting deleted from killer side. referencing @Adjatha comment.
Deathslinger, fun to play? Deleted
Spirit, fun to play? Deleted
Freddy, fun to play? Deleted
Billy, fun to play" Deleted
Pinhead enginner fang? Deleted
Pinky finger clown? Pending Deletion
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Then you have these killer updates like ghostface that aren't going to make much of difference. they're much faster at erasing impactful killer add-ons and killer powers than doing anything positive with killer.
Yup basically.
Most the buffs they do on the lower tier killers such as Ghostface or Legion while yes an improvement, still leaves them weak and ultimately still isn't getting them anywhere close to "viable" per say. Even if we were extremely generous and said they were B tier now, B tier in DBD is trash tier anyway and relies on the survivors making a ton of mistakes to win. I'd argue that not only B but even A tier killers can play a literal perfect game and still lose, that's how bad the balance problems are.
They don't realize that their entire balance philosophy is flawed.
If you noticed on their post they called low mmr games "unfair" while calling high mmr matches "tough" and "challenging". Quite ridiculous when it's the exact opposite. Lower mmr matches are tough or challenging because they haven't got good at the game yet while high mmr matches are the unfair ones. They've got everything totally backwards.
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I only hate how they're still extremely unbalanced.
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@WesCravenFan said:
The problem is not that Survivor perks are weak. They have lots of fun perks that you can get a lot of value out of.
The problem is that perks like Dead Hard are SO INSANELY OVERPOWERED that your average perk looks like trash in comparison.
When people say "There have been no new meta perks since X", what they are really doing is highlighting how busted X is.
^ This.
The never changing survivor meta isn't a result of weak survivor perks, it's perks that are way over tuned and overshadow everything else. In order for a new perk to make it into their current meta it also has to be way over tuned.
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While his detection needed some QoL, it's ultimately become a hard nerf. Kinda negates a lot of his buffs. He's so easy to break out now.
He really needed more buffs.
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Well the balancing of the game essentially ignores the imbalance for high mmr killer which is the root of the problem.
- Devs focus the balance on low mmr survivors
- This leads to unfair matches for high mmr killers
- Those killers leave the game or switch to survivor
- Now those high mmr survivors have less high mmr killers to face
- This causes a slow trickle of more and more lower mmr killers being forced to face those high mmr survivor groups because there aren't enough high killers left to match the demand. Supply and demand imbalance.
- This leads to unfair matches for mid/lower mmr killers and longer queues for the mid/lower mmr survivors as well since the higher mmr survivors are dipping into their pool of killers now as well
- Ultimately leading to unfair/bad matches and longer queue times for the lower mmr survivors that continuously gets worse
- So by trying to cater balance around the lower common denominator of players they actually end up completely counter productive and doing entirely the opposite.
Lesson to take away here is that this is why you don't balance from the bottom up, you do the top down. Balancing from the bottom up simply does not work.
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@MrPeanutbutter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2915705#Comment_2915705
The issue is that the devs refuse to prioritize this broken element of the game. Shouldn’t be that hard to fix
Yeah I can point out many good spots for totems on all the maps so I don't see why it's been this hard for them either.
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It's been said basically forever that in some phrasing or another, "totem spawns are being worked on and improved".
However it's hard to have faith when we are just getting a map rework released and there's literally a totem spawn sitting in the middle of the street...
This has basically repeated for all the other map reworks as well, generally speaking.
It's a losing battle. I don't understand what the issue is.
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Glad to see you try the other side. Just wait till you get your killer mmr higher, it gets way worse if you think it's bad now.
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Sad to see Ghosty didn't get more love. He's still looking pretty bad. The tweak to detection was actually a pretty rough nerf to him even though it was put out as more of QoL change. I was hoping he'd see improvement in some other ways to compensate.
Happy to see the Legion buffs and glad they listened, that's a change of pace. However he'll still be weak over all.
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@Puddles said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2913098#Comment_2913098
I never said DS need buffs. I said it is barely useful as "any more nerfs to it and it will be useless".
"I never said DS need buffs."
I was responding to the other guy who did mention buffing it.
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I think the key is to keep its strong healing for teammate healing but make it weaker for self healing.
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For being a hex perk it’s really bad. To be worthy of being a hex it should prevent fast vaults as well.
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Yeah I don't want her anti-loop necessarily better, but what strengths she does have are pretty weak.
A stealth that gives a "lullaby" per say to tell you she's around defeating the entire point of being a stealth killer.
A teleport that tells them when you're teleporting and even where. Ridiculous.
A Condemn that's "supposed" to waste time going around with tapes to lower it but realistically is completely ignorable.
Remove the "lullaby" that tells people she's around.
Remove at least the directional queue of teleporting if not the global queue as well. Is it seriously too much to ask survivors to actively look around at nearby tv's? Just silly.
The Condemn doesn't need to be deadlier but it needs to actually be scary and waste some time for the survivors.
Lots of missed potential and hand holding with her design. The bar is just sooo low for what they think survivors can handle.
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It needs the downside of it not effecting the Obsession and it buffing their healing removed, completely unnecessary. The perk isn't good enough to warrant these negatives.
Second it needs to not be removed if the Obsession dies, it just needs to freeze wherever it was at similar to STBFL.
Now it's alright. Not crazy strong or anything, just alright. It's one of those perks that by the time it starts to get noticeable the games already basically over.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2913127#Comment_2913127
i get that. its still a strong perk, im just saying its not worth running anymore, probs a good thing since it was broken back then
The entire top mmr survivor players seem to all disagree with you as they all run it for a reason. At those mmr’s unless you’re on a top tier killer you have to camp or tunnel if you want to win and DS counters that which is why they all run it.
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All windows on the map for 60 seconds on gen pop.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2913087#Comment_2913087
its not bad. just not worth using over
dead hard, coh, iron will, unbreakable, bt.
especially since it doesn't stop tunneling
it is a very balanced perk tho. just wish mabye after both hook states? tho they might have to cut the time its active in half
It absolutely does not need buffs, it’s already S tier. It’s also better than iron will or unbreakable. I’d only put maybe dh, coh, or by over it. It does prevent tunneling as well. It gives you the extra time to get gens done and get out if he tries to tunnel you, it’s not not suppose to literally make tunneling defacto impossible.
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He needs a rework. I don’t want his quick scope back but he also needs major improvements on his current state.
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@Puddles said:
And here we go.... Ppl won't stop these topics until CoH becomes a new DS, aka barely useful.
I wonder what will happen when survivors starts to bring green medkits instead of CoH, which are arguably way more useful than CoH.
DS barely useful…what? Lmao the perk is literal S tier and still one of the best perks in the entire game. No one with a decent amount of hours in the game would ever claim DS is even remotely close to bad.
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This is a troll right?
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I'd be more excited if they hadn't given her so many unnecessary nerfs that no one asked for and the CoH meta hadn't annihilated her.
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11-12 was the best days for me as well and most people I talked to. The old grade based system was better than their mmr.
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@hiken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2643551#Comment_2643551
not really at all, strong killers like Nurse with infectious fright/startruck is not that weird to see or blight with alchemist Ring...and thats how they play and they love it, is not about playing bad, why do you think even in cringy ass tournaments some builds arent allowed? is not always about "dud, should of played better, get better dud so that wont happen" literally some people dont even think. Strong killers are the ones doing that cause they can when using some very strong perks allowing them to do such things with minor effort.
Wow this was a necro. Threads literally half a year old.
Also you know when the last time I saw this happen with any killer be that nurse or blight with alchemists? Literally almost a year ago and I play way more than most people. You're exceptions to the rule are very, very rare and not even worth mentioning. What I said before is still accurate. You are not getting nurse or blight with that happening almost ever unless ya'll are way, way outclassed or you just played terribly. If you are getting 5 man slugged at 5 gens y'all probably need to have your mmr lowered because you're at the wrong level.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910816#Comment_2910816
It isn’t a bad perk, and I literally said they could give it a briefer cool down in the same breath.
"buffs it needs" never said you didn't offer buffs. It is objectively a bad perk. You can account for the time spent walking over to kick the gen to the amount it actually regresses. Many times you will actually come out negative, not even accounting for the perk slot cost or the fact it has a cooldown.
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Actually one of my favorite maps. It could use some balance tweaks but I like it.
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@Sepex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910639#Comment_2910639
So aggressive geez.
It's not really aggressive. Calling a bad perk good though is giving it less of a chance of receiving the buffs it needs.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910632#Comment_2910632
You’re welcome to your opinion. 😊
Vast majority of experienced players would agree. I'd call it less of an opinion than you do.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910612#Comment_2910612
It still outclasses Eruption and Overcharge, in my opinion. Can give a lot of info or slowdown for just one kick. The cool down could maybe be lowered to 60, or 45 at the absolute lowest. Hitting up to four gens at once is really powerful!
"Hitting up to four gens at once is really powerful!"
It in fact is not. Base regression speed is near worthless. Even at 45 sec cd no one would run the perk.
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Removing DH would single handedly raise kill rates significantly and removing NOED would single handedly lower kill rates significantly. They both need changes and are unhealthy design.
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Buff each token by 1% and make it so you don't lose it when the Obsession dies, it just stops wherever it's at. Now it's solid.
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Against good survivors gen regression perks are required unless you’re on nurse, that’s just facts.
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The people voting iframe don’t understand why the perk is an issue in the first place. The iframe has counter play. The distance part does not. That is where the issue is.
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It completely destroys killers that are already considered weak. It shouldn’t work on Undetectable or Oblivious.
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That's a GREAT question.
We have to bubble wrap everything these days because feelings.
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Sorry but most all the players with a high amount of hours in this game will disagree with you. 90% of the killer roster is unviable against equally skilled top tier 4 man swf, which btw is common at top mmr.
Can you win against those groups with the unviable killers? Yes, survivors can have bad games where they mess up a lot. That's where unviable comes in, you rely on survivor mistakes. If they don't make lots of mistakes you lose even if you played perfectly.
I think you believe content creators do better than they actually do as well. Old win streaks before mmr don't matter because most matches were against potatoes. Current win streak thrown in when mmr was "turned off" per say, also doesn't count. Most those matches were again, potatoes. You'll notice the matches they win with non viable killers are when the survivors make a ton of mistakes. Also, win streaks where they just facecamp/tunnel someone out as fast as possible and run NOED isn't something I would call "winning". That's zero skill and lots of desperation. Should we also mention win streaks being done at off peak hours where all the swf groups are off? What about content creators you're sourcing actually agreeing themselves that most the roster is unviable?
Unviable = you lose even when playing perfectly against equally skilled top tier survivors. The deciding factor is whether or not they make a ton of mistakes or not, something that happens much less the higher mmr you go, which also increases the amount of swf.
It may take you more hours in the game to find this but 90% of the killer roster is unviable by those terms, it is not a myth.
If you wanna talk about "average" matches, not at high mmr then sure everything is viable there because players at that level have no idea what they're doing. However that level isn't where you determine objective "balance", it's at the high end. When we talk about unviable killers it's at top mmr levels.
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The vast majority of all the map "reworks" were nothing but graphical. Nearly all of the are almost just as unbalanced as they were before.
Even like 60% of the maps simply need their size chopped down before even getting to the unbalanced tiles or amount of pallets.
I think a lot of the community felt swindled when we thought "map reworks" were referencing their balance as well since that's like the #1 problem with the game right now, map design.
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"Hook" was censored.
The whole censor system as a whole is childish. We have the option the turn the chat on or off, censoring is unnecessary.
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If anything I'd buff him. He's not even remotely OP.
He can be looped very easily and denied his power for multiple gens.
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Bandaid fix for bad map design.
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10% bonus bloodpoints per prestige when using that character.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2907811#Comment_2907811
You know the game is balanced around people having perks, right? As killer I can get 1-2 DMS procs and literally win the game. Corrupt / Deadlock / NWO literally makes facecamping a viable 3k strat.
If your strat involves facecamping/tunneling that wasn't a win through skill. Also if you're winning from 1-2 DMS procs you're playing against bad survivors.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2907208#Comment_2907208
The killer losing 2-3 gens by the time he gets his first hook isn't something rare. Happens pretty often in my games. Especially when I play solo survivor.
Does it take you more than 30 seconds to down someone? To bad, you just lost a gen! 2 survivors repairing a gen in coop take 44 seconds (not including great skill checks, toolboxes or Prove Thyself). With 2 seconds of fixed pickup animation, 5-10 seconds to walk to a hook and another 2 seconds of hooking animation. You easily lose a gen, if downing someone takes 30 seconds or more.
But killers probably should just dedicate 4 perks to gen slowdown, right?
Yeah I don't think people realize how much time is lost literally on fixed animations (pickup and hook). Not even counting finding and chasing, every single pick up and hook costs you almost half an entire gen. That's wild for something you can't ever improve on no matter how good you are. Kind of points out why people slug, it saves you so much time.
As you mentioned it also illustrates why everyone feels forced to stack gen slow down perks.
I'd also agree 2-3 gens on first hook is pretty standard for most matches. It makes sense when you not only add in the things we mentioned but also that survivors spawn on the gens and the time you waste crossing the map to even start the first chase.
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Complete waste of a perk slot.
Soon as I we realize you have it we don't waste time trying to blind anymore. Then we laugh at the fact that someone wasted a perk slot to get us to focus on gens instead. That's usually how it goes.
You ultimately want people to waste time trying to blind, it's good for you because they're wasting time.
Now, if Lightborn actually worked differently to where the survivors couldn't tell you had it somehow, then we might have a different story. Maybe.
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Pig, Clown and Trapper need a ton of improvement.
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I think you might want to rewatch that video. He literally states that he did this during when the mmr was turned off. Hence completely contradicting the entire point of this post. Not to mention the streak included running noed and trying to tunnel a person out of the match each time as quickly as possible.