Blueberry
Blueberry
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10 seconds to realistically pick up and hook, 20+ seconds to down (being very generous here and assuming already injured). That's 30 seconds. 30x 3=90 seconds since that's time given to the others. 90-32(that 40% gen regression)=58 seconds lost on every single down.
That's assuming they're all injured already which obviously wouldn't be the case, not counting the time/ pressure lost to go and kick the gen(also assuming you can even make it in time), assuming very fast downs which can literally be countered by just pre throwing pallets, lastly assuming you can even get to a scourge hook every single time(which won't be the case).
Yeah I don't see the issue looking at the numbers. Not even close to an issue.
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If i was forcing a change to Artist I'd be closer to buffing her than nerfing her.
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He was very boring to face. However what he needed was changes, not nerfs, which is what he realistically got. He currently needs some good buffs after being gutted so hard.
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High skill requirement for low pay off. Worth the time is subjective. If he's fun to you then sure go for it, but even if you play him perfectly against equally skilled high tier survivors you're gonna lose. That goes for like 95% of the killer roster though so it's not specific to him. He still relies on a lot of survivor mistakes to win. You can land chains perfectly and they'll still make the loop making your skilled shot meaningless a lot of the time.
I'd put him in B tier and that's being generous. For reference B tier to me is pretty trash and relies on a ton of survivor mistakes to win.
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Wish we'd stop this us vs them mentality posts instead of thinking of the games balance as a whole.
To be honest, the perk is still too strong. The issue with the perk isn't the healing speed, it's the infinite uses for your entire team that realistically has no counter play and single handedly destroys an entire play style while simultaneously weakening all the killers who rely on that play style which are already the weaker killers in the game to begin with.
Also since it destroys the ability to pressure the map it's caused more killers to be forced to tunnel and camp which I'm sure no one wants to see more of.
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@Megmain80 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902386#Comment_2902386
I did exagera-te, but I’m pretty sure that was the gist of your post. The outlier ‘too good’ perks need to be toned down. So, you think the best solution to changing the meta is to make the good perks worse. Instead of having more variety of good perks.
"I did exagera-te, but I’m pretty sure that was the gist of your post."
I didn't exaggerate any.
"So, you think the best solution to changing the meta is to make the good perks worse."
No, that's not what I think. I said perks that are "too good", meaning they are currently unbalanced. I do not simply want "good" perks nerfed. Those are not the same things.
"Instead of having more variety of good perks."
No. Making unbalanced perks, balanced, does make more variety in the meta. Then more perks will be considered.
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@Megmain80 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2890693#Comment_2890693
That’s right…instead of making more perks better, let’s just tone down the good perks until they’re all worthless.
Or lets just exaggerate and miss the point entirely.
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Survivors actually have quite a few decent perks like Exponential. The problem is they have some meta perks that are so over tuned it blocks those "decent" perks out from ever being considered.
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@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901985#Comment_2901985
There was only guessing on both sides until the Survivor was injured (then it was guessing on one side only) until the changes were made to Stridor and Spirit.
If this is your idea of critical thinking, there isn't really much to say.
The only reliable things to do in a competitive environment before the changes were pre-dropping every single pallet with distance/guessing and getting lucky.
A comp player actually showed this and in no way shape or form was it feasible or would have contributed to winning in a non comp game of DBD.
I can however agree that the changes may have been taken a little too far as she does seem fairly weak now compared to her former self.
The changes that were made to her were absolutely needed, to say she was "gutted" is a complete farce.
"There was only guessing on both sides until the Survivor was injured (then it was guessing on one side only) until the changes were made to Stridor and Spirit.
If this is your idea of critical thinking, there isn't really much to say."
It was only guessing on survivor if you were playing badly and didn't know what you're doing. The irony in mentioning critical thinking.
"The only reliable things to do in a competitive environment before the changes were pre-dropping every single pallet with distance/guessing and getting lucky."
No it wasn't if you actually watched them. Also, pallets are counter play. They aren't the only way though.
"A comp player actually showed this and in no way shape or form was it feasible or would have contributed to winning in a non comp game of DBD."
If you watched the video he actually proved the complete opposite.
"The changes that were made to her were absolutely needed, to say she was "gutted" is a complete farce."
In a high mmr/comp setting no, it isn't a farce.
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His addons are so garbage. Needs a big pass over.
His base kit needs big improvements as well. A lot of missed potential.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902160#Comment_2902160
Exactly yeah
I think regardless of our opinions on balance, we both know fundementally the game's balance is really flawed and only two(ish) killers can actually handle the game when it is pushed to that 'high level' as you put it. I can see why somebody like yourself who prefers a more top-down approach would see it as a complete gutting compared to somebody like myself who sees it as a healthy change overall
Yeah that explains the disagreement then, I agree with all that. Good talk lol.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902140#Comment_2902140
It's not that I think you're completely wrong or anything like that, against really strong teams and the like I'm sure the audio cue does a lot more harm than it would a typical team. You have your own experiences which I respect of course
Personally I try to look at these things from a broader perspective and I factor in my experiences into that a lot. I don't know my MMR or anything like that but I know I play against people who have thousands of hours, which like you said - people with thousands of hours might not necessarily be super good but there's a certain wisdom to it.
Neither of us play against clueless baby survivors/baby killers (hopefully) is my point.
"against really strong teams and the like I'm sure the audio cue does a lot more harm than it would a typical team"
This might also be a point causing our disagreement as well. Most people base their opinions on average DBD matches. Everything I'm saying is based on assuming top/really good survivors vs top/really good killers. I don't base any of my thoughts on average matches because to me average matches, while being average, are not objective in terms of measuring balance because it assumes the sides are making lots of mistakes and we determine objective balance by assuming by sides are using the tools they've been given to the best of their ability. IE I think the game should be balanced from the top down, instead of what we have now which is bottom up.
Might be one the things causing our difference of opinions since we may have different end objective points.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902133#Comment_2902133
I mean just to be clear, in case you're talking about me here
I completely understand everything you've said
I just don't agree with you.
And that's okay, I think.
Yeah we can agree to disagree that's fine. That's basically where this Spirit conversation has gone the last 100 times I've had it on here over the years. The conversations on the forums tend to repeat a lot.
I guess I just end up thinking it must be an MMR level thing because all the things I've said here today aren't really disagreed upon by any of the comp or high mmr players i play with regularly. This is pretty unanimously agreed upon. The only time I ever see push back is on the forums where the average forums goer is a much more casual player.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902108#Comment_2902108
you'll have to forgive me but years of studying RS and having a final on religious experience has taught me that emperical evidence is the only thing you can trust to build a solid argument on, and any non-emperical evidence you just kinda have to take with several thousand grains of salt. so, no offence, without any actual hard numbers i can see it'll remain a "source? just trust me bro" until the numbers appear, at which point i will gladly believe you.
also, i was quoting a meme lmao
i know it's based on a meme.
I never said it was a solid argument, but with experience does come wisdom. I get your point though. Also to be fair, I presented many rational points prior to "just trust me bro" that went no where to improving understanding.
It's like trying to point out why swimming with great whites is a bad idea using multiple rational points. They may be good points, but if the person has never actually swam with great whites then those points may not make any sense. You can see my analogy.
I also wouldn't go as far as to say it's an argument from authority as in that case even the person without authority can argue the points logically. In this case if high mmr wasn't experienced for example, then the points won't make any sense to them. Meaning you have to have literally experience the points to understand them. Apples an oranges to say. DBD makes this a little different of a scenario.
It's like saying you won't be able to read the "empirical data" without being able to read english, with english being the high mmr experience. I get this falls back into some "just trust me bro" but it's just a fact. It's why for example trying to explain the games balance problems at high mmr to a newer player doesn't make any sense to them since they haven't experienced it.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902088#Comment_2902088
so in other words it's literally just "source: just trust me bro"
I get your humor, but "just trust me bro" is someone with more hours in the game than more than 99% of the population. You can downplay it as conjecture but that level of experience isn't irrelevant by any means.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902057#Comment_2902057
just out of curiosity how exactly do you know that you're playing at high mmr and you're not just not as good as you think you are? like dont take this as a dig im genuinely curious as to how you know for sure
After you've played the game for over 8k hours you have an understanding of what good players are in order to gauge mmr levels. It's just an experience thing.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902024#Comment_2902024
It has relevance because the spirit has a lot of information when a survivor is injured, it's no longer equal. It went from "You can't see the survivor and they can't see you" to "You can't see or hear her and she can hear your groans of pain". Giving survivors something to work with made this less lopsided and more fair. In general Spirits had more information than the survivors did before her nerf. This is why Iron will became meta and why Stridor was the go-to spirit perk at the time. Facing a spirit without IW put you at such a big disadvantage.
I mentioned Ash not because it proves a point but because it's a funny example of how a survivor being loud just made it even easier for the spirit to down you while in phase.
You can argue I face "low mmr" survivors if you want, but my response to that would be: "I don't know and I don't care" because I don't know my MMR, I face survivors who are good at the game, that's all I think is relevant.
Trying to discredit my arguments by saying I'm facing low MMR players seems rather unfair if you ask me but hey - it's your opinion you're entitled to it.
"It has relevance because the spirit has a lot of information when a survivor is injured, it's no longer equal. It went from "You can't see the survivor and they can't see you" to "You can't see or hear her and she can hear your groans of pain"."
The inverse is also true. You had all the advantage prior to being injured. That's fair.
"Giving survivors something to work with made this less lopsided and more fair"
No, it made it unbalanced and gave everything to the survivors control.
"In general Spirits had more information than the survivors did before her nerf."
If you didn't they wouldn't make much since as a killer would they. That's part of what made them strong.
"Facing a spirit without IW put you at such a big disadvantage."
Still very winnable if the survivors were even semi decent.
"I mentioned Ash not because it proves a point but because it's a funny example of how a survivor being loud just made it even easier for the spirit to down you while in phase.
You were being hyperbolic. Most survivors aren't that loud.
"You can argue I face "low mmr" survivors if you want, but my response to that would be: "I don't know and I don't care" because I don't know my MMR, I face survivors who are good at the game, that's all I think is relevant. Trying to discredit my arguments by saying I'm facing low MMR players seems rather unfair if you ask me but hey - it's your opinion you're entitled to it."
Facing higher mmr vs facing low mmr is a completely different game. It may seem like a simple way to discredit you but the mmr difference matters. High mmr Spirit gets looped pretty easy now.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2902000#Comment_2902000
You say "take advantage of her lack of information"
Meanwhile you hear Ash Williams groaning at 800% volume because the Spirit had stridor. Even without Stridor, to even pull off what you're implying was her "counter play" you needed iron will/lucky break/fixated - perks like that. Perk reliant counterplay isn't exactly great if you ask me but it is what it is.
I'm sorry but most players who played old Spirit didn't play base spirit with random perks - they played Stridor Spirit with anti-healing perks usually and it's obvious why.
Maybe this is just me so the following comment is me speaking for myself: Playing Spirit isn't a guessing game. I don't have problems hearing survivors. Yes Iron will is annoying but once I've been hit by it, I know it's there and can adjust accordingly. Iron will doesn't make survivors just disappear.
Also again the information survivors have is limited, you hear which direction she is moving but not exactly where she is. It's still very possible to use it mid chase.
"Meanwhile you hear Ash Williams groaning at 800% volume because the Spirit had stridor. Even without Stridor, to even pull off what you're implying was her "counter play" you needed iron will/lucky break/fixated - perks like that. Perk reliant counterplay isn't exactly great if you ask me but it is what it is."
No, you don't. You don't need any of those perks to do what I'm talking about. Also mentioning one very loud survivor has no relevance to anything we're talking about.
"I'm sorry but most players who played old Spirit didn't play base spirit with random perks - they played Stridor Spirit with anti-healing perks usually and it's obvious why."
Never said they did play with random perks. Them running meta Spirit perks changes nothing I've said.
"Maybe this is just me so the following comment is me speaking for myself: Playing Spirit isn't a guessing game. I don't have problems hearing survivors. Yes Iron will is annoying but once I've been hit by it, I know it's there and can adjust accordingly. Iron will doesn't make survivors just disappear."
I'd argue you're playing against low mmr players then. Iron Will forces short burst phasing and "guessing".
"Also again the information survivors have is limited, you hear which direction she is moving but not exactly where she is. It's still very possible to use it mid chase."
Against even mildly good survivors they know exactly where you're at. Against low mmr/average players who don't know what they're doing, sure this is all relevant.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901985#Comment_2901985
Her power had no information or tell for survivors to use, there was no phasing sound while in the terror radius which gave way to the classic "haha i stood still" thing which I'm glad barely happens anymore because there was no skill to it. You claim survivors had ways to respond to it, which yeah - the main response was guessing
She has speed, which doubles as a chasing and mobility tool. She limits survivors visibility and information on her while in chase. Not to mention she counters shift + W like Blight does. She has a lot more going for her than most killers
It's not fair to say she was gutted, she's still a very strong killer.
"Her power had no information or tell for survivors to use, there was no phasing sound while in the terror radius which gave way to the classic "haha i stood still" thing which I'm glad barely happens anymore because there was no skill to it. You claim survivors had ways to respond to it, which yeah - the main response was guessing"
She had tons of counter play before. You're looking for information or a tell on survivor because you don't understand how you were supposed to play against Spirit. If you were looking for feedback from Spirit before you were playing incorrectly. Spirit asked you to play against her differently than other killers. You had no play pro-actively, not re-actively. You take advantage of her lack of information to give her false information. IE misleading footsteps, run to window and fast vault to slow vault back over. You control the feedback you give her to manipulate her.
Stand still. You break line of sight or force her to phase by faking that you've committed to a run.
Playing as Spirit currently after the changes is a guessing game, but hey, it's on killer, so that's okay.
"She has speed, which doubles as a chasing and mobility tool. She limits survivors visibility and information on her while in chase. Not to mention she counters shift + W like Blight does. She has a lot more going for her than most killers"
Speed is all she has now. Which she also had those addons gutted. VIsibility is irrelevant when you hear where she's at during phasing, she might as well be visible. The information she's giving is not limited when you can tell exactly where she's at. She counter some hold W, however now you're at a loop with your power on cd waiting. Those cd seconds matter more than people like to admit.
"It's not fair to say she was gutted, she's still a very strong killer."
She's still "good". Definitely no where near the top tier anymore though. Her drop was far enough that it warrants the term "gutted".
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2901966#Comment_2901966
"Gutted" would imply they completely nerfed her power even though it's exactly the same on a mechanical level
Survivors just have an actual way to respond to it now. She still moves faster than them, she still can't be looped as easily as other killers can and the information survivors get isn't 100% perfect - it's vague enough for it to be fair imo.
If they had left in the dust footsteps as well, I might've agreed with it being a straight up gut since that is almost perfect info, rendering the invisible part of her power pointless
""Gutted" would imply they completely nerfed her power even though it's exactly the same on a mechanical level"
No, it's not. The mechanic was completely changed. The change doesn't have to literally be on the killer, it can be on how the survivors play against her which in turn does affect how she has to play.
"Survivors just have an actual way to respond to it now."
They did before, most were just not good at critically thinking how.
"She still moves faster than them, she still can't be looped as easily as other killers can and the information survivors get isn't 100% perfect - it's vague enough for it to be fair imo."
Speed is literally all she has now. She can be looped very easily and yes the information they get is 100% unless you're literally playing without headphones. There is zero vagueness to it whatsoever.
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Because she got gutted and has too much counter play now.
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One of his best perks and he makes better use of it than basically any other killer. You stack it with his other cd reducing addon for shred. You just M1 if you can and shred when you need to and then either way you are recovering very fast. This shortens your chases a ton and makes hooks trades/bt rescues useless. Basically zero downsides when running it on Demo since he can utilize it so we’ll. I personally think you’re missing out on a lot of extra power not running it. For him I’d value that over any other chase perk you’re considering.
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“Elitism” LoL. Yes, that was the reason actually given. No it’s not necessary to be hidden, no competitive game actually does that. We’re trying to bubble wrap the internet a little too hard.
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No it’s not. You only really do it as a way to blow blood points and for collection purposes.
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DS. Feels like all the skill of looping is taken out as I just randomly wiggle guessing when he’s gonna shoot.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2900246#Comment_2900246
Except Self Care isn't balanced, it's trash and spending 40 seconds healing yourself is annoying and takes WAY too much time
It should take that long. When you account for how much time the killer spends downing x3 since the others are on gens, it needs to be that long. Not taking another survivors time to heal you should come with a cost.
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"Tl;Dr (The community seems to hate healing, but when the no heal meta existed and people did gens, we hated that too. So what is the real issue)"
Because they should need to heal, it should just take enough time to allow pressure for the killer on the map.
The only reason the heal meta is hated now is because it is too efficient and doesn't waste enough time. For example, if the heal meta run now was using self care everyone would be fine with it. That's because it's actually slow, allows the killer to pressure the map and wastes multiple perk slots.
So the community does not hate the healing, they hate how overly efficient and fast it is. CoH isn't taking multiple perk slots, has infinite uses, and is too fast.
How do we fix this? Bring CoH down to a balanced level like Self Care and make staying injured actually dangerous (it hasn't been for years).
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My impression of yesterday was that it just matched everyone with literally the first available.
As killer or survivor me and my friend were facing near brand new players in almost all of our matches that had no idea what they were doing most the time.
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They aren't considered OP by anyone who's played the game a decent amount of time.
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We all wish.
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Lots of people running something doesn't mean they're stronger. That's an incorrect assumption to make.
People run flashlights a lot because they actually add fun to the game.
Flashlights are the weakest item though. They actively hurt the team because they end up wasting gen time trying to go for flashlight saves and even end up giving lots of free pressure because of it. You aren't getting a flashlight save unless the killers just flat out bad.
Flashlight will more often then not hurt your team more than help, so even though you may think maps don't add a lot, even a tiny usefulness is better than negative usefulness from flashlights.
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@Tsulan said:
To be fair, most hex perks are mediocre at best and don´t really deserve to be hex perks. Especially with how bad totem spawns are. But the devs seem to be ok with how weak hex perks are in comparison to boons. So...
^ This.
Thrill shouldn't be a hex perk to answer your question though OP. If they wanted to leave it a hex they need to bring back totem notifications on it and even then is that really "hex tier" of power level? Probably not.
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Pig, Trickster or DS.
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Totems should break on snuffing. This keeps them as a limited resource.
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@AverageKateMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892562#Comment_2892562
I thought they patched that out recently.
Still there last I checked.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2892578#Comment_2892578
Yes, I've seen that. But it's better than the gates being opened 20 seconds after the last gen gets done.
It's not better than just running another slow down perk that prevents the gates from getting powered in the first place and adds way more than what you get from that perk.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2891402#Comment_2891402
It makes it to where the game isn't over once the last gen has been done, which is invaluable.
That's exaggerating how good it is. Good survivors will just hide and wait it out.
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@AverageKateMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2890070#Comment_2890070
I have to disagree with this. Shelter Woods is the only place you cannot use BL except for basement but there isn't a use for that in chase.
You can use it at the tree, there's a drop off.
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The grades being there is pointless. We should've just had peoples mmr/ranks next to their name from the very beginning.
For some reason they were worried about "elitism" when literally no other game does that.
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They needed QoL on release even. They could use some significant buffs as well.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2890056#Comment_2890056
what about killer slowdown perks? Take a perk like corrupt intervention. What exactly is pro and con to this perk? If your winning really hard, than you'll win even harder by equipping this perk that indirectly slows survivor's objective through blocked generators and If your concerned about losing generators in which survivors have to complete to open exit gate, than this perk will do masses. Your acting like killers do not have high impact perks that consistently provide adequate value that are not auto-includes in like every killer build.
The reason why survivor utilize exhaustion perks as auto-includes is because of how extending chases is best form generator progress in the game. An exhaustion perk that extends a chase for say 25 extra seconds is 25 seconds of added progression to potential 3 generators on the map. Apart from second chance health-state type perks like Decisive strike and Borrow time, No other perks disrupt the killer's time efficiency as much these type of perks.
I think OP post is mostly saying that the other exhaustion perks are too situational and do not provide enough consistent high-value to be used if dead hard was weakened.
"Which is why the game has issues in the first place with balance. This is flawed. We are trying to better balance their game."
The issue is that your balancing perks that do not need balancing in first place. The good survivor perks and good killer perks are about as impactful as each other. I would say that most of the modern killer problems weak base-kit powers + not impactful enough add-ons and safe pallet loop design.
"what about killer slowdown perks? Take a perk like corrupt intervention. What exactly is pro and con to this perk?"
That's actually a very easy one. The con is that it is literally gone after a set amount of time and the survivors can simply wait it out to where you just wasted a perk slot. That isn't a rarity against good survivors. Also, some perks simply have an effect that isn't strong enough to warrant a con, that's the balance. You need a con when the effect is impactful enough to warrant a downside. I'd argue CI isn't even that good for example, it's just ran because it's the only early game slow down option killers have which gets it defaulted. That isn't because of how good it is though, there's just nothing else.
"Your acting like killers do not have high impact perks that consistently provide adequate value that are not auto-includes in like every killer build."
Most killer perks aren't auto include. Hence why you see at least some variety in the killer meta compared to the survivor one. Literally all of the killer meta perks have some variety of cons be that downsides, skill requirements, situational use ect attached to them. The same can't be said for a lot of the survivor meta perks.
Also, the power level of meta killer perks to meta survivor perks are not on the same level. That matters in the context of what we're talking about.
"The reason why survivor utilize exhaustion perks as auto-includes is because of how extending chases is best form generator progress in the game. An exhaustion perk that extends a chase for say 25 extra seconds is 25 seconds of added progression to potential 3 generators on the map. Apart from second chance health-state type perks like Decisive strike and Borrow time, No other perks disrupt the killer's time efficiency as much these type of perks."
Yes, they have a ridiculous level of impact on the outcome of the match with nearly zero costs, downsides, requirements ect. If their impact was lower it wouldn't matter if they had a downside, but for how significant their impact is they warrant something worth consideration. Currently there is no consideration.
"I think OP post is mostly saying that the other exhaustion perks are too situational and do not provide enough consistent high-value to be used if dead hard was weakened."
My point is that they should be that situational. BL or Head On are how situational Exhaustion perks should be to warrant how impactful they are. If you don't want the other Exhaustion perks to be more situational then their impact on the match needs to be toned down significantly.
I also think "do not provide enough consistent high-value to be used if dead hard was weakened." is a seriously hard stretch. If DH disappeared today every single survivor would have Lithe or SB equipped. I hardly think anyone at a serious level in this game would argue with that.
"The issue is that your balancing perks that do not need balancing in first place. The good survivor perks and good killer perks are about as impactful as each other. "
I completely disagree with you. The good survivor perks and the good killer perks are on entirely different levels. Most the survivor meta perks need toning down significantly. The reason you rarely see the survivor meta change is because their meta perks are already so over tuned that for another perk to make it into the meta it has to also be over tuned.
"I would say that most of the modern killer problems weak base-kit powers + not impactful enough add-ons and safe pallet loop design."
This is the only place I agree with you. The primary problem with the games balance is weak killers and very poor map design/pallet setup. I would put this as the biggest issue in the game over everything else regardless of our other topics. I would hypothetically see less issue with the perks if these issues were fixed. However, realistically that just isn't happening, so I'm basing this off more realistic/easier changes the devs would actually consider seeing as map fixes aren't happening and the killer reworks have been pretty negligible overall.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2891873#Comment_2891873
I'm not basing my opinion on anything.
The developers have said they want the kill/escapes at roughly 50%. The developers have said they are happy where the kills/escapes currently are. If a Dead Hard nerf changes that percentage, then the developers are going to buff other things in the survivor kits or nerf other things in the killer kits.
All of your thoughts on balance needs to be constrained by what the developers are aiming for.
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Personally, I highly doubt Dead Hard is outperforming other exhaustion perks. I think Dead Hard is used a lot because it a much more fun perk for survivor-players and because it gets daily advertising from killer-players.
"I'm not basing my opinion on anything."
You literally have. "then nerfing it would require major buffs to all the exhaustion perks to make up for it or nerfing Killer speeds somehow" while referencing "You have to remember that kills/escapes are at 50%" as your reasoning. You literally gave an opinion based on their data.
"The developers have said they want the kill/escapes at roughly 50%. The developers have said they are happy where the kills/escapes currently are."
Which is why the game has issues in the first place with balance. This is flawed. We are trying to better balance their game.
"If a Dead Hard nerf changes that percentage, then the developers are going to buff other things in the survivor kits or nerf other things in the killer kits."
We are trying to have them realize why this isn't the case.
"All of your thoughts on balance needs to be constrained by what the developers are aiming for."
If that really is what you think we should be doing then this entire conversation is a complete waste of time since you're talking about trying to maintain a flawed state of balance. What's the point in nerfing DH if were just going to make other things problematic to compensate? Don't nerf DH? Okay then were still in the current bad state.
The goal isn't to work around their aims for balance because their aims are flawed. The goal is to rationalize with them into realizing what needs to be changed.
"Personally, I highly doubt Dead Hard is outperforming other exhaustion perks. I think Dead Hard is used a lot because it a much more fun perk for survivor-players and because it gets daily advertising from killer-players."
Top MMR players spam DH over other Exhaustion perks for a reason and it's not fun. They use it because it's most reliably the best option.
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Basement hooks should be included as Scourge Hooks when the corresponding perks are being ran.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2890056#Comment_2890056
If Dead Hard is granting such a massive advantage to survivors, then nerfing it would require major buffs to all the exhaustion perks to make up for it or nerfing Killer speeds somehow. It's being used by 47% of survivors.
You can't nerf something being used by that large a base of players and not balance it out somewhere else. You have to remember that kills/escapes are at 50%, according to the developers and that is where the developers want the balance to be.
No, almost all of them need to be nerfed, just in different varying degrees. You are basing your opinion here on the kill rates which are not only flawed to begin with but also absolutely terrible in terms of measuring balance.
"and that is where the developers want the balance to be."
Which is where the developers are messing up and why the games balance is in such a terrible state in the first place. Balancing around kills is a terrible metric for a multitude of reasons.
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It's fine. Leave Clown alone, he's already in such a sad state as it is. He needs whatever he can get.
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Against good survivors, you don't. Hence why it was a bad idea.
You're left making guesses from your game play experience on survivor predictability.
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I would take any of the previous matchmaking systems over MMR. The game isn't even remotely balanced enough for an MMR system to be a good idea.
The game functions in this state of terrible balance because of the bad matchmaking. It covered up the balance problems.
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NWO is such an overrated perk in my opinion. Almost never do I see killers actually get much value if any at all from it. Off the top of my head I can't even remember the last time I saw it used and it wasn't nearly a wasted slot.
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Short range anti-loop with her birds is boring but the only realistic strong part of them.
Long range sniping is fun but not good enough to be realistically viable.
They should've focused more on her as a long range snipe killer instead of the anti-loop with the birds stuff.