Blueberry
Blueberry
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Well the skill check part is essentially irrelevant so it's basically just letting you kick multiple gens at once. Honestly base gen regression is so abysmal I don't know if this perk would even be overpowered if it had no cooldown. That's how bad base regression is. They like to to play it ultra safe though so at least bump it down to 30 seconds.
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I think the main issue is its use system. Get rid of the token use thing in favor of a smaller lunge increase but it's passive.
It should be just a passive lunge increase like 20% (number can be changed) that decrease every time a gen is completed. So it starts off stronger and gets weaker as the game progresses.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
If you just got rid of the self heal part but gave it back the 100% heal speed, it'd be perfectly fine.
I'd personally rather them go the route of Self Cares since 100% heal for teammates in the radius would being absolutely ridiculous on SWF and typically they don't want perks that are better for SWF than solo's.
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@Maelstrom808 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2978222#Comment_2978222
I disagree with this. Would it be nice? Sure, but it's part of the counterplay survivors have against us and that's not something that we should take away.
There is counter play though, it's cleansing.
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I also think Plague should be able to collect her Corrupted Fountains remotely. Would make her a lot more time efficient and little scarier to people refusing to cleanse.
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@Mozic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2978218#Comment_2978218
I think itd be really cool if Plague's corrupt vomit could break doors on contact - palettes as well might be too strong, but doors would be fun!
Breakable walls could be a nice QoL but could also make you accidentally break some you don't mean to I'd imagine. Breaking pallets would definitely be too much imo.
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I'd buff Plague but I don't really think she needs this of all things.
I've always wanted her vomit to also work as kicking a gen rather than making you vomit on it and then kick it. Would make her a little more time efficient which is one of her biggest issues.
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I mean we're already nearly mid summer as is, so "mid summer" is like really close already. Within like 2 months maybe?
Obviously if it was already ready they'd release it sooner so if they're still waiting it means it's not done.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2977655#Comment_2977655
What are mindgameable pallet loops to you?
Mindgameable loops that I am thinking about are won by the better player if it's an M1 killer. Killers with a chase power will often have a greater chance than 50% of getting a hit at such pallet loops.
So if we are really talking about pallet loops where an M1 killer has a 50% chance to outmindgame a survivor and then get a hit, I probably don't agree. At least not currently.
I'm talking about m1 killers yes. Even anti-loop killers are going to have to waste time circling the loop at least 3 times before they even get a chance at a hit. Most the anti-loop killers in the current state are still not viable against equally good high mmr survivors so if this inadvertently moves them up more I don't see an issue.
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This unfortunately happens a lot. Unless someone is body blocking you should never not be able to reach a hook.
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Remove the lullaby while Undetectable, it makes no sense.
Remove the sound notification of teleporting to tv's. This ups her skill cap and mind game potential tremendously.
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It's still just complete trash tier, I don't know why they thought this was enough of a buff. The effect it gives is just nearly useless. It should give a stacking TR reduction out of chase.
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I'd put Twins above all those B tier kills and most of those A tier killers. Underestimating Twins a lot.
Also wouldn't put Hag, PH or Huntress that high.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2977513#Comment_2977513
Map design is definitely a problem, though 90% of pallet loops being mindgameable seems way too much. Unless you are counting pallet loops like the ones unique to the Macmillan maps as mindgameable?
Even just 50% mindgameable pallet or other loops would be fantastic. It would definitely help M1 killers, without giving anti-loop killers much of a boost. But it is fine to still have some safe pallets as well. M1 killers having to simply tear through some pallets is fine if they are compensated enough with their other possibilities. Sadako is a good example, she could be much stronger if her TV cooldown wasn't as high, and Condemnation actually pressured survivors more into doing a second objective. Not having counterplay at some loops would be fine in that case.
I do agree that a lot of maps could really use a size reduction though. However, I do feel like design wise, it wouldn't be to desirable to restrict map sizes too much either. Having all maps the size of Dead Dawg Saloon for example. Which is why I am hoping that the devs will find some way to add some slowdown into the baseline game with their upcoming perk update, especially with slowdown perks most likely getting nerfed as well.
This would also mean the devs wouldn't have to change as many maps to be fairer towards killer. They would have a better basis on which they can then try to figure out what balance changes some maps might still need.
Why shouldn't 90% of loops be mind gameable? That leaves 10% god pallets. 90% means most loops are won by the better player, as they should be.
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2977513#Comment_2977513
Map size isnt an issue, a big map also benefits you as the Killer since survivors need also to run more distance to reach a hook. On a map like wreckers yard any survivor at any spot can go for the save at any moment, however on red forest a survivor hooked at the shack (not basement) cant be saved from someone at the other side unless the person immidiatly strat running after the hook.
I agree that loops in general got bigger and saver but this isnt the main or the biggest issue imo.
"a big map also benefits you as the Killer since survivors need also to run more distance to reach a hook."
No. The amount of time they waste running on a big map is way less time then you lose.
"I agree that loops in general got bigger and saver but this isnt the main or the biggest issue imo."
What you describe as the games main issue is you describing map design.
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"cant apply enough pressure on the entire TEAM so they have nothing else to do then gens obviously."
AKA map design. This issue is map design.
The reason why for most killers it's literally impossible to generate enough pressure to slow gens down is because most maps are way too big and loops are way too safe.
Like 90% of the games maps could use just a flat 25% reduction in size for starters.
The game should realistically have like 90% of loops mind gameable if the killer is good enough when the pallet is thrown. Currently like 80% of the games loops are just flat out safe once the pallets thrown and you're just forced to break unless the survivors plays really, really bad.
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
Good players should face other good players.
This hypothetically should be the case, however this basically gets thrown out when the game is completely unbalanced when it’s good vs good players. Since they refuse to balance the game properly poor matchmaking is needed to bandaid fix the problem.
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@Bennett_They1Them said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2977145#Comment_2977145
Agree with all of those.
I was actually planning to add a bunch of those to the list, but I got busy and just posted the list I had at the time.
Mind if I add those on?
Go for it.
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- I agree no slowdown on Manifest/Demanifest. You don't get a speed boost or anything so I don't see why there's a slow down, it's not good enough to warrant it.
- Agree.
- Agree.
- I'd also add some small passive Condemn gain that just builds over time. Survivors need to waste time clearing it.
- Teleporting to TV's should give no global queue period. This increases her mind game potential and skill ceiling.
- Remove the lullaby while Demanifested. It makes no sense and defeats the entire point of being Undetectable.
- Significantly increase the duration of phasing after manifesting and significantly increase the time she disappears to give more mind game potential.
- Optional. Allow her to walk through pallets while Demanifested.
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It’s way over hyped. The blindness is nearly worthless as you just let go a couple seconds and you can see everything anyway. On top of that Blindness in general as a status effect is quite underwhelming and doesn’t actually accomplish much. The Exhaustion is also only 5 seconds which is in the vast majority of situations useless as you can very easily get it off mid chase. The literal only good thing about the perk is that if you have another effect applying Exhaustion or they already applied it themselves it’s paused, that’s it. I literally can’t think of a single time that perk has ever felt like it hindered me from seeing things I wanted to see or using my Exhaustion.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2975471#Comment_2975471
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/83OGPHHFX0GR/image.png
white nit comb is like worst add-on in the entire game. putting this as base-kit would be terrible. perfect for survivor bully simulator vs nurse.
Well I didn't necessarily mean 50% as the Comb applies. I also wouldn't even mind the removal of the token system they nerfed on her base kit a while back.
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The issue is the distance, not the i-frame. The i-frame has counter play, the distance does not.
You just greed every single loop no matter what, if the killer respects you get more free loops, if he doesn't respect and calls your bluff you just press E and win anyway making it to the pallet or window in time. It's win/win.
On a side note. The other Exhaustion perks may look worse in comparison to DH but if you compare them to the rest of the perks in the game they are still S tier. Meaning if DH hypothetically didn't exist you'd see those other "worse" Exhaustion perks on every single survivor. I'd go even as far as to say that if the only Exhaustion perk that existed period was Smash Hit you see that on every.single.survivor..and people consider that the meme Exhaustion perk... This is to kind of illustrate how over tuned Exhaustion perks are in general, even if DH is the worst offender.
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Pretty easy to fix honestly. Just up the 6m to 12m.
It has the cost of requiring pick ups meaning negative synergy with slugging.
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I miss moonlight offerings
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If the game was remotely balanced I'd give hatch a lot. However, it's not, even remotely. So I see it as why am I giving them another freebie after they've already been given a dozen freebies? With how unbalanced the game is for them to lose they have to mess up over and over and over.
The other reason for not giving would be if they were toxic..which is quite frequent at high mmr.
If they're chill, I'll be chill.
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Pretty wild how so many turned this original post into an us vs them thing when that's not what it was at all.
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That would kinda hurt her perk flexibility though.
Honestly I would rather her post-blink lunge just be a tad shorter. I feel like it's extremely forgiving. Like covering an entire DH distance worth of forgiveness. It currently feels like it compensates too much for blinks that were aimed incorrectly.
That all said, Nurse in generally is fine on most players, it's only the very rare god tier Nurses where it feels like you can't do much and as stated, those are very rare. It feels a bit weird to give a nerf to a killer that is only too oppressive in rare cases. This is kind of similar to the "absolute monster that is Twins at high mmr". We shouldn't have nerfed Twins for the same reason I'm hesitant to nerf Nurse, the problem cases are just statistically irrelevant on the grand scale of things.
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Yeah I'd put Artist up there with DS as the least fun killers to face in the game.
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Not at all. My connections fine.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2974399#Comment_2974399
100%. Although, we can still tell. It's very obvious when one or two players on either side are out of place. I don't get the decision to hide it at all.
Yeah the "toxic elitism" reason is such a facade.
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@Barbarossa2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2974242#Comment_2974242
If you can't see your mmr you can't complain about match balance, Ranks you could.
Pretty much that's the point. That's the real reason they don't show mmr.
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Because they only play survivor.
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@RiskyKara said:
I was going to play some games tonight and I'd love to add some data to your pool if that's okay. Can you be very specific on what you count as tunneling and camping? I'd like to make sure the criteria is identical for consistency.
"Can you be very specific on what you count as tunneling and camping? I'd like to make sure the criteria is identical for consistency."
This is very important. In general I think people vastly over exaggerate what is considered camping or tunneling. I get lots of solo queue games where my teammates call the killer a camper or tunneler when he definitely didn't.
Like if the same guy gets hooked twice in a row regardless of the reason, lots will call that tunneling. There are many times when I'm playing killer where I specifically don't pay attention to who I'm hooking since I don't intend to tunnel anyone out and just hook whoever I happen to run into. Many times that can just happen to be the same person and I get called a tunneler even though I wouldn't call that tunneling. It was literally just coincidence.
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As much as I hate camping/tunneling and wouldn't even mind built in anti- camp/tunnel features in the game, the problem is that in the games current state it is required on most killer if you're against good survivors at high mmr regardless of how good you are. That's how unbalanced the game currently is, it's just a fact.
The solution here is balancing the game better to the point where were able to build those features into the game and the killers don't need to camp or tunnel in order to win.
It's currently just a necessary evil though.
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Make it still not damage them on the infection hit but at least remove the sprint burst attached. The killer already gets a locked hit animation time.
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It's pretty terrible. It's so bad that I'd almost go as far as saying that even if it wasn't a hex perk I'd still run Bamboozle instead. I'd say if it wasn't a hex it would be on pretty even ground with Bamboozle though. There are circumstances it would be better but in general most those times you are vaulting the window anyway and want the additional vault speed.
Honestly keep it a hex, but make it block fast vaults. So as long as it's up you only have slow or medium vaults. Now that is scary and worth running.
Or another option instead is you could make the windows it blocks me permanently blocked until the totem is cleansed. This gives you some urgency to get rid of it as you are slowly running out of windows available.
For how easy it is to lose hex totems they air on the way, way too safe side with their power levels which is why nearly all of them aren't worthy of being hexes in the first place.
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@JohnWick1654 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2974231#Comment_2974231
omg the old ranks, aaaaaaah, I really liked the system..
We've had like maybe 4 iterations of ranking systems now throughout the years and MMR is probably the worst one of them all.
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That's part of the problem with mmr, it doesn't care how you played, just if you survived. Whereas in the old system you could die, but if you played well you would still pip.
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I'm expecting it to be a prestige character portrait.
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It's probably a worse time to have come back with mmr and CoH in the meta. They've both made the game worse since their release.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2972541#Comment_2972541
They think if the survivors waste time on Boons it means they're not on gens which yeah true I guess but that doesn't outweigh the massive benefit a COH adds since it'll basically cut all heals in half and delete entire killers from using their ability/power.
True.
They also don't realize that when you take into account the time the killer spends snuffing a totem you multiply that by 4 since by doing that you are actively not pressuring a single person. So even though the snuff is quick, when you realize you're giving that much time to 4 people it actually takes longer than the time the single survivor spent putting it up.
It's basically a regular issue they have of balancing the game as if it's a 1v1 instead of a 1v4.
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Giving the reason they gave of wanting to give the option of breaking or snuffing quite literally make no sense. It is almost always a net negative on the killers time to snuff totems, meaning you want killers to waste time snuffing totems. It isn't worth it for the killers to snuff them.
The only way this reason makes sense is if the person just literally doesn't understand the game very well and they just think it's worth snuffing. Think being the emphasis here, not reality.
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That’s just wrong. The game would be better balanced from the top down. All that happens to worse players is the invisible mmr number next to their name goes down until they are winning/losing exactly as much as they were before, aka no real impact on them, except now the top level is actually balanced.
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Most these killers including Myers can be fixed through buffs, however Freddy doesn’t need buffs he needs actual design changes aka rework.
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There’s nothing you can do. Waste time chasing the hold W or just hit and leave while they reset at the CoH and still lose.
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Unless it’s Plague or Legion I don’t think it’s worth running. It could still use some buffs.
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There isn’t a point. A stealth killer with a lullaby makes no sense and defeats the entire point. If they would just give no sound notification to tv teleports it would up her skill ceiling and give her a lot more potential for mind games. Also as you referenced they really should make Undetectable silence all killer noises such as breathing, footsteps, clothes flapping ect. It hurts it a lot. Oh and Undetectable should not allow you to be countered with Spine Chill.
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Killer that burrows underground to travel around the map and tracks survivors that move. Think like the movie Tremors.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2969788#Comment_2969788
suppose a killer get 8 hooks but kills nobody every single game. are you saying that killer is winning every match despite fact that 4 survivor are escaping every single match? At what point does the survivor lose by hooks? It would be entirely subjective for how many hooks the killer needs to win. I'm pretty sure that most players would agree that a killer player that gets 2 kills on average is better than a killer player that gets 0-1 kill on average.
Unlike survivors that have a single win condition, the killers have a single win condition that can be fulfilled in 3 ways:
1) Waiting for a survivor to bleed for 4 minutes on the ground
2) Waiting 60 seconds for each individual hook state to pass for total of 120 seconds.
3) Hook a single individual survivor a total of 3 times.
NOED and hook bombing is a reflection of game balance. I'm just guessing that you disagree that camping hooks(win condition #2) as viable strategy. I think player like you that talk about this would just prefer if the game was more balanced around win condition #3 and the other two win conditions(slugging and camping) were put on the side. As seen by the statistics regarding perk usage, NOED does not have very high MMR pick-rate for killers, I'm sure perk does increase kill-rate when it is used but it is probably not as high as you would imagine in regards to overall kill-rate for killers.
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In regards to OP post, When I first started playing survivor, the reason why I wanted to play survivor was because I thought survivor was the harder role to win with. I think survivor is harder role to play when your new at the game but it quickly becomes the much easier role to play the more experience you have with survivor and the stronger your teammates are at survivor.
The expectation you would get from playing survivor is that your suppose to face challenging and difficult killers to escape from. Similar to @drsoontm post, Escaping on survivor is more fulfilling when your opponent is stronger, otherwise I would agree with his post that escaping with survivor is pretty bland experience.
Unfortunately, the survivor player-base does not seem to like challenging killers to play against, so most of the killer are not very challenging to play against. As a result, the harder role to play in this game end up being the killer. It does not seem like the game will ever be killer-sided so a kill-rate of 75% is unlikely to occur.
"suppose a killer get 8 hooks but kills nobody every single game. are you saying that killer is winning every match despite fact that 4 survivor are escaping every single match?"
Absolutely. Hooks are way more reflective of how well the killer played than kills.
"At what point does the survivor lose by hooks? It would be entirely subjective for how many hooks the killer needs to win."
The game doesn't say "you won" or "you lost". That's entirely player interpretation. What the game does do is tell you how well you played through pips and category scoring. So "at what point does the survivor lose by hooks?" is actually an irrelevant question, it's how well they played.
"I'm pretty sure that most players would agree that a killer player that gets 2 kills on average is better than a killer player that gets 0-1 kill on average. "
Actually I'm pretty sure the average player would agree that the person who gets 8 hooks is better than the person that got 2 kills.
"NOED and hook bombing is a reflection of game balance."
They don't. They get you kills, but they are not a reflection of skill or how well the game is balanced. Kills is not equal to skill or game balance. Yes, that's what the devs "think", but that's not actually accurate and why their game currently has so many balance problems in the first place.
"the other two win conditions(slugging and camping) were put on the side."
Those can exist in the game. The whole reason we're disagreeing is because you're going by the devs win condition which to me is flawed and incorrect in principle.
"I'm sure perk does increase kill-rate when it is used but it is probably not as high as you would imagine in regards to overall kill-rate for killers."
Most the high end community players I know would disagree with you. The devs also tend to lump all kill rates together and don't regularly separate high from low brackets. Most the data we do have is also data that's non mmr era data which is relevant.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2969816#Comment_2969816
sure, but I don't think hooks are good neither. Hooks are not same for all killers.
For example Oni, or Hag, I can get 4k with them while having 6 hooks total easily. By your definition it would mean they are weak.
That's why I would prefer winrate instead. It would filter most of those one kill camping and it works for all killers same.
Not implying hooks are the end all be all perfect balance metric, it has issues. However, they are way, way more accurate a measurement than kill rates. Kill rates are literally the worst metric.