Blueberry
Blueberry
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@yauniqua said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340146#Comment_3340146
that's cuz you play killer.
stop acting brand new, i've seen your posts on these forums.
i remember when you had a freddy kreuger pfp
What are you talking about? I play both sides basically equally.
When did I ever act like I was new? I've never acted as such or said anything to elude to that whatsoever.
You also are confusing me with someone else as I've never had my profile picture as Freddy bub.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340100#Comment_3340100
he reminds me a lot of Spirit. It’s essentially using the exact same sound and audio queues to track them while invisible. Only real difference is not seeing scratch marks and I start a chase instead of getting a hit from it.
yep, yep, I agree. He is better then people give him credit for. Shattered Square is pretty tough map for killer. I am surprised that I do not see more map offering from survivors to send me to that map. maybe its because its new map. I played a lot vs Eyrie offerings and farm map offerings. I wonder if this map will get popular for survivor to spam offerings to get easy wins.
I think a lot of people haven't realized how survivor sided that map is. Other than Garden of Pain, I expect once people catch on we'll start seeing the sweat squads send people here.
While do I still think Knight is on the weaker side and still needs buffs and a huge addon overhaul I do think he is underrated. I think most people play him wrong.
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@yauniqua said:
eruption holds the game hostage
I’ve literally never had a single game held hostage by eruption and I play way, way more than the average player. If it’s getting held hostage it’s a player skill issue going on.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
Only problem would be trappers traps, and killers like that
so for him they could make confetti pop out when a survivor is trapped, or a little Christmas jingle for trapper
What a great idea! Hit a trap and confetti pops out haha
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340090#Comment_3340090
well i mean your using map of realm and call to arms, so higher radius makes easier, then at same time, nobody survivor really bothers tries to avoid them and then there is fact that if you were spirit main, then tracking survivors is skill that you learned already. You know, a lot of people said spirit is "low skilled, no counter-play"
I suppose that could be the case and it only seems easy because they aren’t trying to be skillful and predict my pathing. It’s funny you mention Spirit as I think that’s why I actually like playing Knight, he reminds me a lot of Spirit. It’s essentially using the exact same sound and audio queues to track them while invisible. Only real difference is not seeing scratch marks and I start a chase instead of getting a hit from it.
Unlike most players using the guards to pincer I play him more for the macro play and long range guard snipe people while I chase other players with the knight and try to maximize map pressure. I like macro play style killers more than micro ones personally.
Oddly enough I haven’t seen a single knight play like this other than myself. They all just try and poop guards out at loops and pincer, usually goes pretty bad for them. Playing the long range snipe way I do I got up to a 54 win streak which at least shows there’s something there especially since most the players I was going against were all between 2-5k hour players so I’d wager a decent mmr. Lost the streak on Borgo, big surprise right? If it wasn’t for the extremely unbalanced maps like Borgo could’ve probably gone a lot further.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340069#Comment_3340069
The skill in using guard should be in its placement. what happens after the guard successful starts a chase is extra fluff. Its kinda like deathslinger's spear, your suppose to dodge the spear but once you have been hit, you have high probability in taking a health-state worth of damage. Its technically possible to break the spear/not get hit by the guard but its killer favoured at that point.
Oh well I feel like hitting a DS shot is way, way more skillful and challenging than landing a guard. I probably land a chase on 90% of my guards I place. That doesn’t feel all that skillful, only maybe a little.
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@FMG15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323155#Comment_3323155
How so? It requires pure skill to time it once the killer knows that you have it and it is even counterable at pallets since they can't throw it while being locked in an animation. It's also very net dependant and the window of 0.5 seconds is pretty short so you need to be more precise with it. The only issue is the fact that it can negate insta down poewrs which is not a good thing. But other than that it's one of the most balanced exhaustion perks in the game especially in comparison to Lithe and SB which needs far less skill to pull off with a greater result.
It’s the least balanced exhaustion perk in the game. It does require a lot of skill to time but it has nearly no counter play if the player using it is good enough. They have enough time mid swing to react to the swing animation meaning that you are forced to never lunge any survivors that are injured or it’s an automatic 3rd health state. If you’re getting close to m1 tap instead of lunge so they don’t have time to react well now you just gave them the same distance old dh gave to reach the pallet or window.
If you pre lunge through the pallet to catch the end of the dh they just throw the pallet and save their dh. This puts you in a lose/lose scenario.
There’s only a microscopic window to time with trying to catch the dh through the pallet and are we honestly going to say that’s fair counter play? I mean really, it was decided that survivors seeing the aura of a survivor before being hooked to let go of a gen to prevent pain res was too hard of counter play…and that was a joke of easy. We need to have some consistency.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339872#Comment_3339872
increase movement speed of guards by 5-10% if he draws patrols further 10 meter away. Decrease knight m/s by 5-10% when a guard is chasing another survivor. The 2vs1 principal is interesting as killer, but premise of 2 killers chasing should mean that your facing 2 weaker killers. Cool concept but knight in particular(main killer) is too strong with his guards when your in the corner of the map but has no effectiveness anywhere else. I think they just failed to balance his 2vs1 in mutiple situations so you get 100% hits in some loops and a completely worthless ability in other cases. Two extremes.
OP post is dumbing the killer power to break pallet is silly and kills knight's design. He is also not meant to control guards either. You play twins if you want the 2 controllable killer experience. I believe their pick-rate is very unpopular at <1%. He is also not meant to have patrolling zombies. You pick Nemesis if you want automatic patrolling zombies(which might worst power in isolation in the game if this was killer's only ability).
I like the idea, but then you’d have people just getting downed by AI alone and that would infuriate the player base. Would feel pretty skill less.
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Honestly with how many bad perks there are on both sides we need to see like 20 perks (10 per side) getting buffs/reworks on every mid chapter patch, so that’s every 3 months. This is like a bare minimum too, it honestly needs an even faster rate than that. With how many awful perks there are we have a lot of catching up to do. Map reworks and perk changes need to be up there in terms of top priorities.
Getting lots of regular perk updates makes the game feel fresh and prevents it from getting as stale.
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In order for people to be okay with tunneling being removed entirely you need to make 12 hook games possible at high mmr and tunneling never necessary to win.
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We need less nerfing of popular perks and more buffing of all the bad perks.
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I don’t quite understand why he can’t just see survivors during pathing?
I get it on something like Spirit as that gives you free hits, but in Knight case it’s just to START a chase, that already rarely ever lands a hit anyway, it’s generally just to waste time. I don’t see why he even needs that limitation. It would also give him some more mind game potential to play around their pathing and cut them off.
Also, requiring that space in front of you to be able to place a guard is extremely annoying. It’s not reactive enough in chase because many times it’s blocked and you have to waste time backing up to give it room to be placed down. Please make it place directly on top of himself.
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@TWS001 said:
The chance of playing an enjoyable game against the Knight is already very low. He can already easily make games last forever as it is.
I think the Devs know that they have created a killer that is already good and in some cases, the best, at the most "controversial" aspects of the game. If they buffed him anymore it could potentially create even bigger problems. Can't see him getting anymore buffs anytime soon tbh.
I mean I’d argue that’s more a 3 gen issue with perks that are already getting nerfed soon to remove that. That isn’t really a reason to keep Knight neutered.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339889#Comment_3339889
you are not wasting time looking for totems as you passively run into them all over the map on the way to gens
I'm not tripping over them as I move from gen to gen. You might be getting lucky with spawns, but I've had plenty of games where I can't find a totem, or they're very out of the way, or I only find them when the killer is nearby or chasing me. Plenty of hooks and eyes to the blessing alone.
and 3 heals out of the totem to equate value I would even argue is a stretch but that’s also across your entire team, not just yourself.
It's time saved versus time lost. You have to make up for the time you spent finding a totem and blessing it. CoH shaves about 5 seconds off of a heal, so you need 3 heals to offset the 14 second boon time.
Actually, no, you're right, it's less than that, since it's five seconds for both survivors. Still, that requires at least two heals before CoH begins to be effective, and that's not counting the time lost moving to the boon, which comes out of the benefit. If the boon is not nearby, the time saved quickly evaporates.
If you can't make it to the boon in under 5 seconds, then healing on the spot is faster.
If you looked at the amount of heals coming out of CoH on average it is way, way over 3 heals.
I doubt that. Certainly not seeing that in my games. But that's also not necessarily a problem with CoH, it could be a killer misplay.
Even look at what healing perks are in the meta, it’s literally nothing but CoH and that’s for a good reason
It's probably because CoH is actually kind of fun to use. It's not like healing perks themselves are really meta to begin with, as even before CoH, none of them were actually popular with the exception of Self-Care. Medkits have always been a far more popular solution than picking up healing perks.
I mean calling having to find totems as a downside just sounds silly to me. Anyone even at an average mmr finds totems passively all over. I find this only relevant for a new player that’s still learning the game.
You're looking at time saved in healing but realizing the time saved as it’s a self heal, rather than requiring another teammate to get off a gen to heal you, which is massive.
If you’re not seeing lots of heals from CoH it sounds like bad killers and we’re not wanting to balance around the lowest denominator, that’s how we end up with balance issues.
Sayin CoH is the only healing perk we see now because it’s fun sounds silly to me as well, it’s not 95% of the time the only healing perk we see because it’s fun. People run what’s strong, that’s why they’re running it. Let’s be honest with ourselves.
Lastly you didn’t comment on it only requiring 1 perk slot for the entire team to have infinite medkits essentially. Only requiring 1/16 perks instead of each of them individually is massive. That is a ton of extra value in terms of freeing up perk slots.
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@philward1953 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339894#Comment_3339894
While I have seen complaints about his addons, I've seen most people still conclude that he's not weak. He's also very annoying. That's the biggest problem. He's another annoying anti-loop-focused killer that isn't fun to go against.
I don’t think I’ve literally even seen 1 person say he was too strong and I’m on these forums a lot. Like 90% of knight posts are asking for buffs. His play style has 2 addons even required for it to work.
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Still not fixed in todays bug fix patch.
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@philward1953 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339885#Comment_3339885
I'm curious, why do you think he's weak?
Also, the hardest part of thinking about reworks is to think up ideas that won't nessicarily nerf a killer but will change the play style.
Your play style changes are all heavy nerfs.
it’s pretty unanimously agreed on by most the community that he’s weak. The guards don’t waste much time while simultaneously not reliably getting hits. Yeah you can pincer people with them, but between hold w you’re taking as long if not longer to get the hit than many killers anyway. He’s also very addon reliant for a couple while all the rest of his addons being trash.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339880#Comment_3339880
You have to find a totem, bless it, and then once people are injured, they need to make it to the totem in under the amount of time that CoH saves, I think at least 3 times in order to break even with the earlier timesink.
1 perk for the whole team rather than healing perks on everyone, you are not wasting time looking for totems as you passively run into them all over the map on the way to gens, and 3 heals out of the totem to equate value I would even argue is a stretch but that’s also across your entire team, not just yourself. If you looked at the amount of heals coming out of CoH on average it is way, way over 3 heals. Even look at what healing perks are in the meta, it’s literally nothing but CoH and that’s for a good reason, it’s because it makes all other healing perks that even used to make it into the meta look like trash in comparison. If I wanted heals there’s no reason I would ever run a different healing perk.
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I’m confused by all this. You’re wanting to give heavy nerfs to a killer that is already very weak? I started this post expecting to see buff ideas.
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@Firellius said:
I don't particularly care, it takes quite a bit of work to get value back from that perk, and my playstyle doesn't really create much opportunity for that.
Explain the quite a bit of work required you’re referring to? I completely disagree. I’d argue extremely little work, zero risk, very high reward and low cost.
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Hopefully it gets reworked, super unhealthy.
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The real question is where the bug fix for knights guards going around loops instead of threw pallets when thrown right in front of them is. Happens multiple times every game. Hurts him a lot.
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I mean how do we buff long range knight while simultaneously fixing the unhealthy interactions? I don’t have a good answer
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338984#Comment_3338984
I voted for Ormond only because all the rest of the options in that batch were boring. Also Ormond isn't that bad for killers to be fair, I don't understand all the hate for it.
I think it is bad for most killers, even just in size alone. I picked Eyrie as post rework it’s not nearly as bad now.
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@Maelstrom808 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339758#Comment_3339758
Well I think a lot of that comes from too much stacking of effects from both sides. I wouldn't mind seeing something where only the single best effect is allowed on pretty much everything.
It’s a tough one to fix. On one side I like that, but it also sucks having so much build synergies lost. Makes people take the best one and ignore anything else. Maybe keep the synergies but just lower each of their numbers in general?
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They do need to focus more on incentivizing and rewarding the killer for playing “fair” rather than punishments for not. Currently we are seeing a lot more tunneling as the killers feel way more stressed with gen speeds.
I think one of the big reasons we see gens flying faster that no one seems to be mentioning is CoH entering the game(combined with medkits and increased gen efficiency from the HUD as well). With CoH they can counter the killers pressure so much faster and more importantly alone since they don’t need to get a teammate off a gen to heal them. Injures being spread around used to slow gens a lot more as it used to get survivors off the gens for much longer than it does now. CoH and medkits being tuned down to be more balanced would actually lesson tunneling and slow gens down a lot more.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339025#Comment_3339025
Isn’t the Saloon a map with some of the highest kill rates? And Coal Tower is kind of up there (as far as being good for killers, like all the MacMillan maps are) too.
It is, but it’s also one of the most balanced maps. A lot of the other ones are just very unbalanced.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338178#Comment_3338178
This is a bug I have become intimately familiar (Knight's one of my favourite killers) with and I am still questioning how the heck the devs managed to screw it up
Yeah it actually happens multiple times a game too, quite annoying. Hopefully fixed soon
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@LuthirFontaine said:
What maps you guys getting? I can sab a hook and the killer walks 6 feet to another hook.
Midwich and Game are the worst offenders, some other bad ones like Red Forest though.
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@Mr_K said:
If they fix point 1, hopefully that removes point 2 as an issue.
That's a definite possibility.
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/363822/hook-spawns-and-breaking
Just leave them slug
Then you just committed a long hold w chase to gain literally nothing and lose at least a gen. Oh and the person is also either getting up with Unbreakable or 1 person will pick them up while you still have 2 sitting on gens.
Against good survivors and on an m1 killer that isn't a counter play. You don't have time to hold w through an entire 2 health states into the middle of no where and away from gens to gain nothing.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338982#Comment_3338982
But we do have that right now in the form of anonymous mode made to protect streamers from possible hackers harassment but now players assume of they are on Anonymous Mode they have to be hacking or will greif during the match.
As many said knowing your own MMR would cause huge egos....people would post thier MMR on the forums to "validate" thier arguments and anyone who has low MMR or refuses to share thier MMR would be ignor d by said person because of their own ego. Heck you can see that right now with people who say "I'm high MMR...." And then will ignore many peoples thoughts and opinions because of said assumptions.
You're looking to try and protect people in an online video game from other peoples egos...like really, that's where we're at now? You're wanting us all covered in bubble wrap.
People posting their own MMR's on the forums is irrelevant as other people could literally just lie about their MMR and no one could disprove it so that isn't a point.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339101#Comment_3339101
I really hope it's not FNAF. We don't need that community's behavior over here. Our community is bad enough already.
I don't know anything about their community.
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@Ghoste said:
I just voted and these were the top 3:
Vote 1: Coal Tower - 13%
Vote 2: Dead Dawg - 28%
Vote 3: Ormond - 27%
Arguably the best Killer map in the game is #1. So ya'll Killer mains need to relax lol
Dead Dawg isn't a bad survivor map though. It's quite playable for good survivors.
Whereas you look at something like Garden, Borgo, Springwood, Ormond and for most of the killer roster they're hardly playable. Your chance of winning is hoping they're bad or tunneling someone out fast.
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@Agt_Scully said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339051#Comment_3339051
I love Midwich and RPD. 👍️ Two best maps in my opinion and I always look for map offerings on them both as Survivor and Killer. I wish they had an Indoor Map Mode with 24/7 Midwich and RPD. That way I wouldn't have to waste thousands of Bloodpoints for the offerings.
I think there's a lot more people that dislike indoor maps compared to outdoor maps but I think it more so stems from most the outdoor maps being much, much less balanced for all the reasons I mentioned previously and people like having all their unfair advantages. Indoor maps are generally speaking some of the most balanced maps.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339099#Comment_3339099
A new player is worse than a vet. Yeah, you made your point.
Sounds to me you are looking for a goal. A finish line of sorts. Something that validates your investment in the game. Problem is, the MMR score is poor measuring stick. Best it can do for you is validate you're not a new player.
Is a poor measuring stick bettering then having no stick at all? The majority of players would say yes.
People naturally want to see some form of visual representation of their improvement in games, we currently have none.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339101#Comment_3339101
Instead of hooks survivors are put on pikes.
I love it, great idea. Maybe some different way they work potentially.
I've always wanted them to do a "Gravedigger" type killer that similar to the pike would chain them inside of a coffin on the ground.
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@SunaIIanu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339025#Comment_3339025
The page that featured Ormond had many survivor sided maps though, Badham, erie of crows, torment creek, cowshed, garden of Joy.
I think Gas heaven or rancid abattoir might have been more balanced choices, but the starting point was already not great.
That's a fair point. However since the Eyrie rework, while still unbalanced, it's not that bad and definitely would have been one of the more fair choices in that list by far.
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Based on what I've seen..
If it's original, I expect the vampire/vlad the impaler chapter.
If it's licensed, I expect FNAF.
I do think it being an original chapter is most likely though.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339012#Comment_3339012
And that one we could actually see what our own "ranking" was, which is the entire point of what we're talking about.
And what did that do for us in a positive sense? Sure, the 1st time you reach it you feel like you accomplished something. But after it was a formality.
Because the rank didn't mean anything. It was how you played and many rank 1s played poorly.
Even though we both agree MMR is bad at representing skill are you seriously going to tell me that you think a low mmr game and a high mmr game are "ON AVERAGE" going to look the same? Let's be real here.
The two extremes will look different. A better example would be mid‐MMR and high MMR. Whatever that truly means.
"And what did that do for us in a positive sense? Sure, the 1st time you reach it you feel like you accomplished something. But after it was a formality."
That's actually not an equal comparison as before rank 1 was the end, but you would not realistically be able to reach the MMR cap so you would not have that same experience of "reaching rank 1 and done".
"Because the rank didn't mean anything. It was how you played and many rank 1s played poorly."
To say it didn't mean "anything" is objectively false. Skewed? Yes. Nothing? No.
Just because many people at old rank 1 played poorly didn't change the fact that on average they played much better than lower ranks. Saying it didn't mean anything is a gross exaggeration.
"The two extremes will look different. A better example would be mid‐MMR and high MMR. Whatever that truly means."
Well first even if that was an extreme example difference, that is still you admitting that it does mean "something". So to say it means nothing you even agree is wrong.
Let's even take your example of mid mmr to high mmr. You think those will look the same? Anyone that plays in the higher mmr brackets can tell you they will not on average look the same. Can you get bad players in high just like mid? Sure, does that disprove the point? No, it doesn't. That would be like saying I know people who smoked their whole lives but were unaffected by cancer, that doesn't disprove that on average smoking is a leading cause of lung cancer.
There's always exceptions to generalities, but exceptions don't disprove the generalities.
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@Xendritch said:
I really wanted midwich but I'll take what looks like is going to win too, weird how ormond went from a meh map to now it seems like the most popular map in the game.
Midwich was actually my vote as well. I think that's actually my favorite map as survivor and killer even though most people hate it.
To me I feel like many maps layouts and tile settings are all nearly identical and just reskins. Midwich with its layers actually plays out differently and gives it more depth while actually feeling like a different map.
I also find it to be one of the more balanced maps as well. There isn't an abusable main building, loops feel like actually a fair 50/50, pallets don't feel excessive, the map isn't too big and you can't see each other a mile away so hold W isn't as encouraged.
Bonus for being a good map for quite a few of the weaker killers as well.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338984#Comment_3338984
Admittedly I checked back when it was still new, but weren't Coal Tower and DDS the other 2 leaders ahead of Ormond? Like admittedly Ormond isn't great but Coal Tower is like seen by many as the most balanced dbd map (and DDS depends massively who you ask 🕳️👩🏻🦯)
Have the rankings changed massively or..?
So I just went back to look to see if the top choices had changed since I last saw and the current leaders are Cowl Tower, Dead Dawg and Ormond.
I think most people are totally fine with Coal Tower and Dead Dawg (myself included, as killer or survivor), those are two very balanced maps in my opinion.
However Ormond, while better post rework, is still extremely bad for most killers. There are many worse maps don't get me wrong, but it is still very much up there in terms of being very unbalanced. It's still just way too large for most m1 killers.
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@Veinslay said:
I want to play on Shattered Square! There's a god pallet every five feet and you can see the killer from a mile away for maximum holding W! Can't catch me!!!
Literally.
Map is awful.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338976#Comment_3338976
Only real difference between the old rank based and new "skill" based is that one doesn't reset.
Are we trying to say DBD is equivalent to LoL? Would you say Plat in League is the same as High MMR in DBD? I doupt they are comparable because High MMR doesn't mean skillful.
It doesn't matter what your MMR is because there are unskillful ways in achieving it. Camp the basement for 4k or 12 hook. In the end they are the same. Unless the score actually reflects skill, there is no point in knowing it.
"Only real difference between the old rank based and new "skill" based is that one doesn't reset."
And that one we could actually see what our own "ranking" was, which is the entire point of what we're talking about.
"Are we trying to say DBD is equivalent to LoL? Would you say Plat in League is the same as High MMR in DBD? I doupt they are comparable because High MMR doesn't mean skillful."
Literally just comparable in having a rank system in which you can see your own rank, don't try to stretch "comparable" past the point I'm making. I wouldn't say "plat" is equivalent to high MMR in DBD as you're missing my entire point, the point is not whether you think the game is good at measuring balance with the MMR system, the point is that you can see where you're at, if you're improving and who your better killers are.
You are getting stuck in the conversation of whether MMR actually measures skill and that's not the conversation we're even having or is it relevant to the point I'm making. I agree MMR is very, very, very flawed in measuring skill but just like the old system we had, which was also very flawed, it still had "some" measure of skill as on average an old rank 1 would still play better than a lower rank player even if you did get lots of bad rank 1 players. On average it did show something.
"It doesn't matter what your MMR is because there are unskillful ways in achieving it. Camp the basement for 4k or 12 hook. In the end they are the same. Unless the score actually reflects skill, there is no point in knowing it."
You're confusing a system as showing literally "nothing" because it is very flawed. A system can be very, very flawed at showing skill and still simultaneously be representative of "some" skill. Even though we both agree MMR is bad at representing skill are you seriously going to tell me that you think a low mmr game and a high mmr game are "ON AVERAGE" going to look the same? Let's be real here.
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@Mat_Sella said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336445#Comment_3336445
The fact that people would hide and wait for others to die is WHY the kill rate is high in the first place. If sucky ass people existed like this and the kill rate is still balanced for 50%, killers are weak as hell.
+ add in suicides inflating that number as well
+ the extra kills you get from survivors dive bombing the hook at end game as they refuse to let that one guy die
+ the killer just face camps/tunnels someone so everyone basically kills themselves to them in order to move on
+ whoever gets hooked as the last gen gets done even if it's their first hook is basically dead as the killer isn't leaving then
Think of our average matches and compare how many kills the killer has right as the last gen is done, vs how many he has after the game finishes. So generally the all the extra kills he's getting from end game hook bombing scenarios.
My main point is basically the same one you were making as well, there are a ton of things artificially raising the kill rates to look higher than they are. Now someone may say, "well why does it matter, a kill is a kill?". Well it matters because we are balancing for skill and objective balance. All those things I listed have nothing to do with balance or skill. They are just people raging or people making tons of bad plays and not reflective of anything but are being added into our data for balance.
So if we're looking at kill rates from skill and actual game balance to see how balanced the game or killer is, the numbers we see for kill rates reflective of those said things are realistically much lower than the numbers the data is giving us. So if the data shows an average kill rate of 65% for example, the actual kill percentage for skill and balance is more like 55%, as an example to get my point across.
So while we shouldn't use kills honestly for how flawed it is, whatever percentage we realistically want to achieve, we should be aiming for a number slightly higher. So if we wanted 65%, you'd need the flawed data to show like 75% for all the extra stuff it's adding in that shouldn't be added in.
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@Eelanos said:
Kill rate is such a simple but odd way of looking at who wins in this game. As a killer, killing 3 people makes sense as a goal, but as a survivor it feels like it doesn't matter if 3 of your team mates escape if you're the only one who dies unless you died to save someone else.
Survivors' POV messes the whole balancing, because it doesn't matter 3 people died, as long as I am out I feel like I won. Rather than a 4 vs 1 it feels like a 4 (1, 1, 1, 1) vs 1.
It doesn't matter to me that my team mates all escaped if I got tunneled out the first minute of the game. I count that as a loss, as I generally won't stand around long enough to see the end game regardless of the result.
This is also the reason I almost never give hatch when I'm playing killer. When I'm the 3rd to die only for the last survivor to throw a party with the killer to get a pity hatch, it kinda feels disrespectful to everyone else's efforts to win throughout the match.
This is why I don't like to see this as a competitive game and I'd rather see it as a party game. As long as I'm getting a lot of BP and I'm not getting "Strategically supressed", I'm okay with anything.
"Survivors' POV messes the whole balancing, because it doesn't matter 3 people died, as long as I am out I feel like I won. Rather than a 4 vs 1 it feels like a 4 (1, 1, 1, 1) vs 1."
This is exactly why the game has the balance problems that it does. It is a 4v1 and should be balanced as a 4v1 in order to be in fact balanced, but it's currently "balanced" as a 4v1,1,1,1. As you mentioned, balancing this way generally speaking makes everyone feel like a winner, but completely throws balance out the window as you're making 1 of the 4 be able to stand toe to toe with the killer unreasonably for their experience to be more enjoyable.
This is the difficulty of balancing an asymmetrical game. The balancing required to have actual good balance hinders the enjoyment of the individuals in the 4.
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And Ormond as well...oh man help me.
They are going to have some insane survivor queue times if they actually increase the odds of being sent to some of those maps for an event. I feel like this is going to backfire.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338662#Comment_3338662
It still would because someone with high MMR plays with someone not at thier "skill" level and notices that to them how they plays shows thier lower than them so they start griefing them and then harass them after the match.
You literally just described the exact system we currently have right now, not the system I proposed.
The scenario you just described is not changed at all by knowing your own MMR. You said they thought they seemed not at their skill level, what does that have to do with knowing your own MMR? Nothing. You just thought they seemed way worse than you.
By this criteria you would think we need to hide names in lobby as well even from the survivors as they could think that persons not their skill level.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338923#Comment_3338923
Prior Rank Based matchmaking was visible and we saw what came of that. Players would make it to Rank 1 and grow big egos. Then you had those that intentionally kept low ranks to bully the casuals and make YT montages.
The current system does have some of the same aspects, but without visual confirmation it cuts back on the narcissism. Nobody takes a person saying "High MMR" seriously.
I don't see the current system as a competitive one. It's more of a way to separate new and experienced players. A true competitive system would punished the skilled, at least in this game. If you ever rushed to rank 1 after a reset (rank based) you should know what that entails.
The last one showed you other peoples rank, seeing only your own MMR does not do that, completely different.
The equivalent to this would be like playing League except you can never see what grade you were in (bronze, silver, gold ect) which just sounds completely silly, you'd just be guessing "well I think I'm plat" rofl. Except in League not only do you see your own, but they even show others as well, not an issue their at all. Most games do that as well. However here I'm not even asking for that, just to see your own.
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@Biscuits said:
I would wager that the number 1 and 2 reason for why they don't let you see your MMR is. People on the forums would discredit your feedback based on your MMR. People would take that information to determine how good they are at the game.
They don't want you discouraging people to give feedback on the forums. They don't want your own belief of your skill at the game to stop you from posting on the forums. They don't want you feeling bad for not being good at the game.
But as I said, we wouldn't know their MMR, only our own, so that wouldn't really apply.