Blueberry
Blueberry
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- Blueberry
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Well people say it's easy just follow the rules but some of the rules are highly subjective, which can make that difficult to know sometimes as it's completely up to interpretation. Feels like walking on egg shells sometimes. Even just "insulting" is ridiculously subjective and even varies by culture.
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This hit and run game play they're promoting will be a much healthier meta for the game and one I look forward to.
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@Doomzilla said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382776#Comment_3382776
I get that to an extent, it I do think it’s ok for these perks to exist when earned, almost like a power on the survivors side. Obviously we’re not talking anything crazy
That concept sounds great but given the games history it’s almost always done wrong and terribly tuned.
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Definitely a nerf and we will see way less of it but it’s absolutely not dead and the ones that are running it will get more reliable uses out of it as no one will expect it now.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380351#Comment_3380351
The thing is, that solo survior cannot improve to a level of swf with total information and reliability, even if the information part could be given by the devs, the reliability-part can´t. Thats why it would just kill off solo survivors.
And just to be clear, while i was a survivor main for years, i played both roles, and have become a true 50/50 Player, so i win AND lose either way.
But still i think seperating solo and swf is the only way to do it.
I don't think they need to improve a swf level to compete. The actually don’t think it would kill solo queue off.
I still would rather them be separated as well though. Swf in casual mode and solo in ranked.
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Agreed the zombies are already bad enough they should remove this from them as well.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382783#Comment_3382783
That does turn it into a hard counter to Nurse's Calling, though.
I’m fine with that since it’s only for that survivors interactions and not many people run NC anyway.
We could say the same thing about Distortion anyway and it’s still just better.
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@WesCravenFan said:
I use slowdown perks because in my opinion there are no good chase perks. Every perk that looks like it might be good in chase either doesn't last long enough, or has a very tiny window to capitalize it on.
Yeah I would say bar like a couple most the chase perks in the game are all trash and way, way undertuned to be worth running.
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Honestly yeah make it silence you healing, you being healed, as well as all others involved in the action in general. It needs to cover all the other random reveals that can happen while healing as well like screaming, aura revealing ect.
Essentially since it’s active only while healing it needs to hide “everything” during that healing. You are basically undetectable during any healing actions you’re involved in other than visually being seen.
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How about we stay away from the second chance extra health state perks and look at buffing everything else.
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They realized it was a terrible idea and that everyone hated it. Hopefully we never see it again.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382406#Comment_3382406
100%. Basically, my opinion was that the gen-kick meta was unhealthy but Pain Res didn't deserve to be nerfed again until killers had some way to slow generators down a bit more especially in the early game. Now granted, nerfing base healing would help with that, I just think it isn't the right way to go about it and creates more problems than it solves.
But no, I'd be totally fine with some form of base Corrupt or something else that makes it so the killer doesn't often just lose 2-3 gens before they get a single hook. I'm not sure exactly what the best solution is, there's probably multiple ways to go about it. You could also provide incentives for healthy killer gameplay that slow down the game a bit. Just throwing out some ideas here.
I also think the default regression rate should be one-third instead of one-fourth, and stuff like BNPs just shouldn't exist.
Okay well that’s fair. The healing change just seemed like a good way to go about that to me. It only rewards killers for going out and making chases. That’s like the healthiest option I’ve seen. What other way would be healthier to slow the game down specifically?
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382252#Comment_3382252
Healing perks shouldn’t become a requirement. These changes make medkits more necessary than ever before despite them also being nerfed. They should've started by just nerfing medkits and CoH and seeing what happens after that.
That said, medkits and CoH being nerfed is good. It was long overdue.
Would you say requiring gen slowdown perks for killers isn’t okay as well?
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@AGM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382265#Comment_3382265
Obnoxiously slow healing times, and nerfing good add-ons on bad killers while ignoring/refusing to rework the bad add-ons on bad killers and ridiculously overpowered add-ons on good killers.
I mean some mismatch on which addons they should be focusing on is destroying the game? That's going a bit over board don't you think?
Healing will take much longer but all the gen regression perks are getting nerfed as well. The killers need slow down somewhere. If it's not in the gens it's in healing. How is this destroying the game?
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How are they destroying their game?
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Pop and Thana were both fine before they gutted them.
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For survivor veterans? Boredom
For killer veterans? Anger at how unbalanced the game is
In general? Lack of a sense of progression, aka hiding mmr/lack of rewards. People like to be able to flaunt "I'm plat rank ect". Seeing goals to work towards gives people purpose.
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So you run healing perks to counteract that time?
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I couldn't disagree with him more on almost every point.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382212#Comment_3382212
No, my argument is it was now a bad perk period. Which it absolutely is. It will have use in 4 man swf. Outside of that it has become trash tier.
That's just wrong I'm sorry. It's not a bad perk whatsoever. It's still one of the best healing perks in the game, even in smaller swf sizes than 4. We're just not going to agree.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3382196#Comment_3382196
Yes, but seeing the aura only matters if someone comes to you. If they don't it does nothing. Swf is the only way to make it an okay perk. Even then they're better off just slamming the gens.
"Yes, but seeing the aura only matters if someone comes to you. If they don't it does nothing."
That's why it's a team perk. Literally the whole point. It's also one perk slot instead of all 4 survivors having to run something.
"Swf is the only way to make it an okay perk."
Lol okay perk? This will literally be on every swf group. That isn't an "okay perk", that's a very good perk, otherwise they wouldn't be running it. SWF groups are also a very large portion of matches.
"Even then they're better off just slamming the gens."
The point is how it compares to other healing perks, not if you should just ignore healing altogether. Your argument was that it was a bad healing perk.
To illustrate how good this perk still is they could hypothetically remove the aura reading buff entirely and it would still be ran on all swf groups, that's how good it still is. If you want a selfish healing perk then run a selfish healing perk, but when it comes to team healing this perk is still extremely good.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381174#Comment_3381174
It is only useful if someone follows me into the boon area. The amount of time we'll spend running to it will not be worth using the boon. If you're lucky you might be near enough to it with a teammate to make it worth using. Odds are pretty good you won't be though. Hence why I say situational.
That is just wrong. They will even see your aura in it. Also what if you don't put it on the complete opposite side of the map so you're already near survivors. You are downplaying how good the perk still is, it's very good.
What about in a swf? This will be ran in almost every swf group.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381480#Comment_3381480
This I definitely agree with. People are overreacting as always, and I also do not believe the argument that solo queue is dead now, considering that altruistic heal was nerfed just as much. The only thing I really dislike is the fact you can't heal yourself with CoH anymore, that needs to come back, because the healing nerf already indirectly nerfs CoH enough.
I predict that BHVR already has a 20 second heal as a back up plan though, and is going with 24 seconds to see how far they can push heal times. I do agree that 24 seconds might be a bit much. I just hope that if they reduce the healing time to 20 seconds, they also look at perks like PR, maybe buffing them a bit somewhere else. PR could do 20% regression instead of 15% for example.
I also want Pop buffed a litte, it's arguably the healthiest slowdown perk in the game.
I pretty much agree with all of that other than CoH. I think the self healing on CoH was the entire core problem with the perk.
With how much outrage the survivor community is giving I doubt they’ll stick with the 24 seconds either. I also expect them to cave and lower to 20. Although I disagree with lowering it to 20. I think people are overreacting a lot.
If they do however pull back on the heal changes then I expect them to pull back on the gen regression nerfs as well as the healing changes were the only reason I was okay with them.
Ideally I’d rather them go through with all of it though.
Other than the Billy changes, idk what’s up with that.
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If we were forcing a change to Plague right now I’d be closer to buffing her than nerfing her as I think most others would as well.
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@leowt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381570#Comment_3381570
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3381408#Comment_3381408
I'm not sure that the gen regression perks that synergize well with camping, i.e. Deadlock and DMS, have been affected significantly, save for Pain Res. So I don't think it necessarily means camping is easier to punish. Meanwhile, gen-kicking perks have been nerfed to the ground, so there is not much incentive to go away from the hook and towards the gens to apply them.
A lot of killers I've gone up against who play optimally proxy camp, giving you the illusion that you can go for the save. What ends up happening is I go for the unhook, and I see that the killer is not too close to the survivor, and I try to go for the save. The killer then hits me, and as I try to lead them away from the hook, they do a 180-degree turn and head back to the hook. Meanwhile, the whole time, the other 2 survivor sees that I am not on the gen (signaling that I'm going for the unhook). After I get hit, someone else will have to go in for the save (because healing me would take too long) and find the killer is camping. By then, it'll already be too late and someone will have to go and trade or the hooked survivor will hit second stage.
Also, unless it's a Bubba, it's always going to be optimal to trade instead of letting someone hit second stage or die on second hook. Not going for an unhook to do an additional gen doesn't mean much when someone is going to be quickly out of the game.
In conclusion, I think the changes to altruistic healing speeds will enable camping to be more profitable and easier.
Well that’s just the thing, these healing changes DO incentivize the killers to leave the hook and pressure other survivors as now their injures matter and they are more likely to have shorter chases since more people will be injured and DH is basically gone.
This said, if the healing changes do stick I would be in favor of nerfing other gen slow down perks like Deadlock, Jolt ect since the “slow down” would have been transferred to healing.
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Some questionable changes but overall very good and one of the better midchapters we’ve had.
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I actually think this reduces camping as now gen regression perks will slow the gens down significantly less making punishing a camping killer much easier. If a random survivor is just running in alone and getting hit to go back and heal that’s a bad save from the survivor. He should be going in simultaneously with others. To be honest though if he’s camping you should be just pumping gens anyway though and not saving. This change will incentivize less camping as well.
Yes those healing numbers do look rough but the gen regression nerfs offset that a lot. The gen slow down has to come from somewhere. If you don’t want it in healing it’s going to go back to gen regression. At least when it’s in healing it makes gen perks less required on killers which is a good thing as it opens up the meta more.
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Nah Dredge needs buffs, not nerfs. He’s got quite a few unnecessary hindrances.
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@ad19970 said:
This nerf is surely also because of the nerf to healing. So it might be fine, now that killers can slow down matches more by injuring survivors, provided survivors still have enough reason to heal.
Yeah this is essentially my thoughts as well and why I’m more okay with all the gen regression nerfs if they’re coming along with the heal changes. This makes gen regression less necessary but only if you’re good at chase and pressuring the map. As you touched on as well, provided they have enough reason to heal. They could potentially ignore this and just gen rush. I could’ve seen some more incentive on healing like a hypothetical “you do gens 10% slower while injured” kind of thing. This said though I like the concept they’re going for and we can wait and test it out on the PTB to see if something like that would even be necessary.
I feel like both sides are just seeing “my gen regression nerfed” or “my healing nerfed” without realizing those things were nerfed in correlation with one another so those nerfs aren’t as bad as they may seem on face value when they realize the changes the other side got. Like yeah healing will take much longer, but now gens are going to also go much faster with all the regression getting nerfed and vice versa.
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I don’t see how we’re ever going to fix balance at the high end of the game with it not being tougher on the lower end players. That feels like an impossible fix. Realistically though an mmr system would adjust those lower end players mmr’s to where they were winning/losing exactly as much as before the change though so it wouldn’t necessarily hurt them as much as people think, it would just change an invisible number.
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This is kind of a weird side effect that DMS is nearly dead because of PR being dead. Seems reasonable.
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@TigerSnake said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380789#Comment_3380789
Spoiler alert: Longer heals won’t do anything.
And why is that?
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380775#Comment_3380775
Which makes it situational at best.
It’s not situational whatsoever. You are all going to be getting injured every single game. That is the polar opposite of situational.
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While they did go way overboard nerfing PR unnecessarily as well as other slow downs I’m okay with it if the healing changes go through as hypothetically we’ll have base game slow down with how much more time healing is going to take or quicker downs if they don’t. This is how we get lower impact of gen regressions to where they’re not as required and allow more flexibility of perk choice. If these changes go through for healing I would expect further nerfs on the other gen slow down perks that haven’t been touched yet as well.
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I’m expecting to see it a lot.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380088#Comment_3380088
In what universe is a BK you spend time placing a good perk? BK post nerf was already pretty weak. CoH will just be an even weaker BK.
This is being extremely disingenuous. First of all it is not a BK you have to spend time placing. It takes one perk slot instead of 4 which is huge in itself and it shows all injured survivors in the radius as well. This is way better than BK. It’s a team perk, not a you perk.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380088#Comment_3380088
hey blueberry. remember our conversation about med-kits like 1 months ago? It seems that your vision of weakening healing came true. I remember you saying that this meta will be really fun for survivor and I argued that weakening healing will make survivors heal less and rush gens more making the game a lot less fun for survivor. I guess we are about to see whether the game is more fun or less fun for survivor. I suspect boon circle of healing is dead perk and new meta will be 4 med-kit+build to last. I wonder if I am right about my prediction that less healing makes the game less fun for survivor.
Well ideally this will make hits matter more and slow the game down naturally if the killer plays better while simultaneously nerfing gen regression perks which seems to be the route they’re going. Only additional change I would do is some kind of incentive to make them heal and discourage just staying injured and rushing gens. This may seem annoying but remember we’d be simultaneously nerfing the gen slow downs as well. So yeah we will see, but this isn’t entirely my scenario.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379254#Comment_3379254
But thats the point right there. you want it balanced for killers for skilled swf. But swf still have a huge advantage over solo survivors, and that means throwing solo survivors under the bus, because even with the hud, they cant compete with the level of coordination and information swf have.
The only resolution for that is to part solo and swf queue, and balance them both seperatly. But they wont do that.
"that means throwing solo survivors under the bus"
Which is essentially what you're wanting for killers when they vs skilled swf then, to get thrown under the bus. Games are better balanced top down, not bottom up. When it's top down those bad survivors can change their outcome by improving at the game, but if you balance bottom up the people at the top have literally nothing they can do. One balance strategy gives everyone agency, one does not. Players always need agency.
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Some questionable changes, but overall a very good patch.
Slowing the game down by reducing healing while simultaneously nerfing gen regression perks across the board is good. It may be annoying having healing take so much longer but gens are going to go faster as well with the perk nerfs. This essentially gives base kit game slow down if you pressure well with less reliance on perks to slow the game down, that's good design.
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They still have a lot of issues that need fixing but this is a huge shadow buff to them. Thank goodness too, they needed it.
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Still a very good perk, just not busted like before. I still imagine we'll seen one CoH in most SWF groups.
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I play only solo queue and it looks fine to me.
"3-gen holders are not even been addressed"
You mean other than literally nerfing the perks that make 3 genning a thing by almost 50%? Really what more do you want.
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Corrupt, Deadlock, Jolt, Sloppy mainly.
With some Plaything and Pentimento here and there.
Then those will get nerfed because their pick rate will be high solely because everyone was defaulting them from all the other nerfs.
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@Ayodam said:
Isn’t CoH just Botany in Boon form now?
Except it's 1 perk for the entire team to get its use rather than using 4 perk slots and it gives aura reading of any team mates in it. Those differences are quite significant.
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@foodie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379678#Comment_3379678
Ideally, a buff will be given before this change reaches the Live version of the game
Ideally yeah.
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These were good changes, healing needed a nerf. Healing has been over tuned for quite a long time. This especially buffs the weaker hit and run/stealth killers who are generally speaking already the weaker killers to begin with. It also is only giving them the slow down if they're skilled enough to split pressure injure everyone so it's not free. This further incentives a more fun spread pressure play style and not tunneling, that is good design.
You ironically made a case for increasing gen times rather than making healing take less.
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@BougieBlackChick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3378476#Comment_3378476
You’ve likely never seen all the killer posts on here that fully admit that tunneling is the easiest way to win because it makes the game a 3v1 immediately.
I didn't read what I wrote. I never said people didn't agree that tunneling is the easiest way to win. That doesn't run contradictory to my point.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379402#Comment_3379402
Precisely my point, anti-healing with thana will be the new meta to more passively slow the game down.
I still think their rework to Thana was a terrible change and pretty universally hated as the old version was way better. That said, this meta will be good for Thana as you said.
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I don't want a Twins rework. They're just going to gut them.
They just need to revert the DS stun on successful Victor pounce.
Fix taking him hostage.
Allow Victor to snuff boons.
She could use a few addon changes too.
They don't need a full rework, just tweaks.