Blueberry
Blueberry
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@Mastapalidin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374416#Comment_3374416
Borgo, Badham, Garden of Joy, Mothers Dwelling, to name a few. The second I see these maps when I load in there is a 90% chance I will have no chance.
Yeah those maps for most the killer roster are a forced tunnel if you want to win unless the survivors are just really bad.
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The games number one issue since release has been map design and is still the number one issue today.
There are tons of maps that need heavy reworks to size and layout. Maps can slightly skew one way or the other, but there are many that nearly decide the outcome before it even starts.
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I think most people agree the speed at which gens can be done is an issue, I guess where most people disagree is the solution.
I tend to feel that the core issue is two fold. First is the start of the match with spawns and second is average chase length.
Rather than gen speeds being increased I’d rather them address it by fixing these issues.
We need a built in early game collapse, like a Corrupt at base kit. The start of the game with spawns and no pressure developed causes early gens to be near impossible to stop for your first chase.
Next is that chases are lasting way too long between second chance perks extending them and loops in general being way too safe. Essentially this boils down to most the killer roster being unable to even if played perfectly, accurately pressure enough to realistically slow gens down. This is also heavily exacerbated by maps being way, way too large on average to properly pressure.
Forgot to mention it but this lack of ability to pressure is also heavily exacerbated by injures being meaningless as self healing between medkits and CoH is out of control. It prevents hit and run pressure from actually slowing gens down and getting survivors off gens to heal each other. Healing needs to force survivors off gens to heal each other.
Now this is all the idealistic solution to solving the core problem. However this would be a perfect world and realistically this would be a lot of work for the devs to fix. So while I don’t think just increasing gens times is the real best solution to the problem it would be the most realistic in terms of the easiest and quickest fix.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/358877/perk-reworks-killer-edition
Regarding the Huntress perks in particular I'd started my own thread on them and came up with the following:
Scourge Hook: Territorial Imperative
* The Aura of a Survivor entering the Basement or moving within 2/4/6 meters of any Scourge Hook when you are at least 32 meters away is revealed to you for 3 seconds.
* Hooking 2 different Survivors on a Scourge Hook gains 1 token
** At any normal hook, consume 1 token to convert it into a Scourge Hook, deactivating an already active Scourge Hook elsewhere in the Trial, chosen at random.
Basically adds a touch of Hangman's Trick while offering a way to deal with one of Scourge Hooks' biggest weaknesses, RNG of placement.
Hex: Huntress Lullaby
Start with 5 Tokens, 1 for each Totem remaining in the environment. While Hex: Huntress Lullaby is active the time between the warning sound and any healing and repair skill checks is shortened, depending on the number of tokens.
** 5 Tokens: disables the Warning sound.
** 4 Tokens: shortens the time between the Warning sound and the Skill check by -56 %.
** 3 Tokens: shortens the time between the Warning sound and the Skill check by -42 %.
** 2 Tokens: shortens the time between the Warning sound and the Skill check by -28 %.
** 1 Token: shortens the time between the Warning sound and the Skill check by -14 %.
Survivors receive a 2/4/6% Regression penalty on Failed Skill Checks for Repair and Healing actions.
The Hex effects persist until its Hex Totem is cleansed.
Basically flip the token system and give us Thrill of the Hunt rules so it doesn't fall into the "too hard for beginners to cope with" issue that got OG Ruin reworked
One for Beast of Prey suggested in the thread, but credit belongs to @FFirebrandd
After being in chase for 20s, Beast of Prey activates.
Beast of Prey grants undetectable until a survivor is damaged by any means.
Beast of Prey has a cool down of 50/40/30 seconds.
I thought the scourge one seemed too weak before I even got to the part of it deactivating another scourge hook when it creates one, which made it even worse. Seems ways too weak, I couldn’t ever see running that.
Lullaby also seems too weak. I get we don’t want it to be too strong against bad players but that seems useless against most everyone else that’s decent. I feel like any skill check perk is doomed to be too good against bad players or too bad against good players. Skill checks are so easy that you’d have to make them ridiculously hard to have any value against good players. Good example of this is merciless storm. It’s made to not be too hard for bad players which is why it’s useless against anyone even decent.
That beast of prey idea seems okay I guess for helping new players that are bad at chasing but overall useless to everyone else. It’s there to help people that are playing bad.
Overall none of these are good enough that I could see any time I would want to run them.
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@ProveKa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/358877/perk-reworks-killer-edition
You forgot to add "let BHVR play the killer for you too"
What do you mean?
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@DemocRat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373992#Comment_3373992
Any type of regression
That seems too strong to me. If it was just the passive slow regression maybe, but not the burst like PR, Jolt, Pop type hits.
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We talking kick regression or like everything including Jolt, Pop, PR ect?
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@theblimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373840#Comment_3373840
Shattered hope basekit, remove self care aspect of CoH, buff the the healing speed inside the boon and double the range of the effects maybe
Yeah I was thinking something similar to this.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373957#Comment_3373957
Hatch is not a win. Get out of here with "the game gives survivors a freebie."
Killers get 10,000 freebies a day everytime 4 random solos queue up.
Hatch is an escape. That's a personal win. So if that gate blocking example I gave didn't give MMR you'd be okay with that being added? That's basically what you're implying.
Go ahead, list the freebies killers get. I'll wait.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373368#Comment_3373368
The hatch race, and the exit gate gamble afterwards, are BOTH in the killer's favor anyway.
The killer doesn't have to stay out of sight, hide their scratch marks and pools of blood. Many killers have incredible mobility, and some can even teleport across the map and backtrack if they hear it while traveling.
Remove the hatch? Sure. But then disable all killer powers and boost the 110% movespeed killers to 115%.
If the randomness of the hatch is to be removed, then so should the difference in killer powers (some can EASILY guard exit gates with their powers). It can't be one-sided.
Lol what?
Okay so first of all the hatch is in their favor because if you got to that point you already lost the game in the first place. It's supposed to be in their favor because you technically already lost, the games just being nice and still giving you a freebie second chance. You shouldn't be asking why the hatch is in their favor, you should be asking why you get a hatch mechanic period. You lost. This would be like losing a soccer game and then complaining that you got a participation trophy when in reality you should be lucky you got anything period when you lost and were supposed to get nothing.
Second on the point of the gate, no, that's not correct. It's more of a 50/50 on whether you get the close gate spawns or the far gate spawns. I'd even go as far as to argue it's realistically more of a 60/40 for survivor as it usually even favors them more often if played correctly. Also, same as the hatch point, it should be in the killers favor, you lost. This is ungratefully complaining about a second chance that wasn't earned.
Survivor should be grateful they get either of these mechanics as they are multiple freebie second chances after losing for no reason.
Should we even get into the 4% yolo off hook chance for a third freebie chance for no reason?
The equivalent of this for killer would be like if he got destroyed and the survivors were going to 4 man escape but right as the fourth guys about to run out he gets an RNG chance of the gate blocking him from escaping and he has to try for the other gate. Does that sound stupid? It does to me. That's basically what survivors are getting. A free second chance for the other side after they lost.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373105#Comment_3373105
With sloppy butcher, healing takes longer with the COH, and that time that is being taken to heal allows the gen to regress
Honestly, I would've thought by now that everyone would agree that its basically impossible
I mean if I play way, way more than the average player and not had issues with it what are the possibilities to explain this? Have I just beat insane odds of RNG? Like I'm not being sarcastic here, I'm seriously asking. How can we explain me having no issues with it in any of my games, especially when the amount of matches I play is an extremely above average sample size? Like I should have ran into these games a lot based on what people are experiencing I'd think. This is even entirely solo queue mind you, so this should be even more rare for people playing in some form of a swf.
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To me he needs both ultra rares base kit. Even with them both he still isn’t even A tier, just playable.
Then make him start with all his traps already on him and increase their detection radius a bit as it’s too narrow.
As a counter measure to all this I think they should add a distance blocker between traps, ie a limit to how close they can be to each other. This will lower his ability to just hook someone and then dog pile all the traps around them, they will have to be spread out more.
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With these two rough last chapters the next mid chapter and anniversary need to be quite well received. We need a huge meta shift with perk updates in the mid chapter and a big license for the anniversary like Alien to turn this slump around.
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I’m actually pretty excited to try her out with these changes. I just had no interest in the camp 3 gens thing with her.
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I think they’re bugged at the moment. I hit most my skill checks and even when I land them correct it still fails every time.
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Shattered hope base kit, rework CoH, and then buff the other boons.
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@stonedcandle said:
Explain the difference between being left to bleed out and getting hooked. Besides a few skill checks at the end and taking twice as long. It's the same gameplay and the same outcome for both. At least when you're on the ground you can crawl around, try to hide, and get the hatch.
I get downright giddy when I get left on the ground. At least the chase continues.
This ^
The hate for slugging is irrational at its core. I’d always rather be slugged than hooked. There are multiple benefits to being slugged of which there are none to being hooked.
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@HugTheHag said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373421#Comment_3373421
That's fair.
But I still think, especially if the gates were auto opened, that there would still be slugging because otherwise it'd be a "free escape". Especially since it would be easier to track the gate than find hatch, so I don't think it would be better, honestly.
That would just be removing hatch to put an equally controversial endgame that would not disincentive slugging.
However, that's just my opinion =)
I mean if we were assuming gates auto powered or open without hatch then yeah I agree we’d have the same issue. I guess I was assuming them not making that.
It’s a tough issue to fix. I don’t like the hatch mechanic and a lot of people also don’t like being slugged for the 4K but all the alternatives have their own issues.
Gates powered/opened instead would cause the same issue. However not powered would basically mean the last survivor has no chance of getting the gen done so they’d just hide indefinitely. To be clear I don’t think there’s any “good” solution, maybe just trying to find the least bad.
what would you propose?
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OG Freddy was way more unique and interesting design. All he needed was some tweaks.
Current Freddy is just a copy paste of other killers powers with nothing unique about him or his playstyle. Very boring all around.
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I don’t generally like anti loop killers, I prefer macro killers that are more on split pressure.
So like Plague, Pig, Dredge. There’s some anti loop in there but I care more about the map pressure. Plagues probably a little less fitting into that but I enjoy how she ignores the current overtuned heal meta.
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@HugTheHag said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373368#Comment_3373368
Wouldn't those killers still slug for 4k if they didn't want to risk the last survivor opening a gate ?
I guess we’re assuming if hatch was removed they’d change it to auto powering gates?
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373372#Comment_3373372
I have been using Any means necessary after the buff.
For some reason found a lot of Nemesis Players during that time.
It was fun for me xD
That’s actually hilarious lol. Poor Nemi.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373365#Comment_3373365
I just don't like perks that force survivors to play on a more lame way of pre dropping instead of going for more risky plays and go for stuns. Just seems really backwards design to me.
But this is my issue with the perk itself.
Also, i don't know if you know, but right now destroying zombies with pallets also activate Hubris for some reason. Free tip for Nemesis players if they want.
That’s at least a more fair argument. It encourages less fun interactions. I could see that. However that’s more just the perks bad core design than my change itself.
The nemesis thing is pretty irrelevant as no one really wastes pallets to kill zombies anyway. Interesting fact though.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373098#Comment_3373098
Ah yes, what a perfect idea that certainly cant make situations even worst!
Im surprised you havent sent in your application yet!
It’s literally the only reason they slug at the end. No hatch, no slug. It’s pretty logical.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373105#Comment_3373105
This worked for me against knight after very tiring match. But it does not work against SM. The difference is subtle - you always need to hack drone which takes some time. If you don't, then you don't need to heal at all because you will be exposed anyway (and as she is guarding her 3gen, there are no pallets nearby after a short time). But she can immediately redeploy her drone back.
The time she gains by using her ability is just enough for her to be able to regress the gens ad infinity. The only way to break it is to wait until she misplays several times (can happen in 30+mins match). If she plays perfect, you just HAVE TO have perfect coordination or genrush build. Otherwise it's gg.
But at this point I feel it's no longer worth it. The match will take ages to finish and it will most likely result in loose anyway. It's just MUCH MUCH MUCH more appealing to throw the match and hope you don't get her next game. You can have 2-3 normal games in time of 1L by SM
Hacking the drone takes seconds, that changes basically nothing. She also has less pressure than Knight. I literally haven’t had a single game drag out like you’re talking about. We either breaking it like I was talking about or me or my team misplays too much and lose.
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@BlueHorkew said:
I already said a lot of this changes are way too powerfull.
Quick example, spirit with this hubris. You are giving spirit the ability to one shot every survivor by her walking up to a pallet just so they can stun her. Because lets be real, any good spirit will catch a survivor within 40 seconds. Its way too much, besides being a perk that punishes a survivor for going for stuns instead of just pre dropping.
This is just completely and utterly unrealistic. As soon as they see you have this the rest the entire match is pre drops. This is literally the exact same scenario as spirit fury. Even with this buff I personally wouldn’t ever run it still for that exact reason.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372679#Comment_3372679
So you are intentionally creating unbalanced matches cause you don't want unbalanced matches?
Please tell me you can see the irony in that
have you concidert that maybe the reason you are getting the unbalanced swf 4 medkit deadsquad is because another killer had the same thought process as you before?
How do you expect the balance team to do their job if we continue to screw with what they are doing?
That's like complaining a restaurant got your order wrong when everybody purposfully takes the wrong order
This threat is a real eye opener. Hope the devs see this and do something about it. Either punish lobby shopping or just disband the entire lobby if someone leaves.
"So you are intentionally creating unbalanced matches cause you don't want unbalanced matches?"
You want someone to suffer an unbalanced match instead of a random person they don't know?
"Please tell me you can see the irony in that"
I find it pretty weird that instead of focusing on the source of the problem (balance issues), you instead blame the people having to deal with it.
"have you concidert that maybe the reason you are getting the unbalanced swf 4 medkit deadsquad is because another killer had the same thought process as you before?"
And I see zero issue with them doing that. Why would I blame them for that? That's illogical.
"That's like complaining a restaurant got your order wrong when everybody purposfully takes the wrong order"
That is a terrible analogy and not at all what is going on. A better one would be blaming a customer for sending back an order that was raw and inedible instead of blaming the source of the problem which is the cook who made it.
"This threat is a real eye opener. Hope the devs see this and do something about it. Either punish lobby shopping or just disband the entire lobby if someone leaves."
Hopefully this issue opens their eyes to the heavy balance problems and gets them fixed. You're too focused on solving the symptom rather than the sickness itself.
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@MB666 said:
as an addon YES , as basekit NO, plague is pretty much fine already making any healing build useless for the entire match
Well to be fair if that was an addon no one would ever run it compared to her other options. If no one would run it then it would be a pointless addition.
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@Pumpkinbros said:
well it honestly just begs the question obviously, why is ghost face one of the only killers that get to see the progress of his effect on the survivors, I don't believe even Sadako can see that information
I believe if we're going to sit here and argue whether plague should get this change, then I think we should actually debate all killers with a ring effect around the survivor should get this treatment
Trying to think of the bad outliers but overall that sounds like a pretty good change.
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Yeah I had this thought the other day. It would be a nice QoL change.
It would make you start having to decide mid chase if you should commit to trying to finish the infection or just take the hit.
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You all just work on different gens. If injured you have a CoH sitting just outside to solo reset. If she commits to anyone she loses. If she doesn't commit and just keeps running back and forth y'all will slowly do the gens faster than she can regress them, even with all gen kick perks.
If this isn't working for y'all then people on your team are making misplays.
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So are you suggesting we fix the slug for the 4k by removing hatch?
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372847#Comment_3372847
Yes, I do essentially think it's the same. - And while I can also see what you mean, I also do think that the only difference is the increase in loading screens (then again; depending on how long matchmaking / lobby refill takes I suppose the time difference might be neglible as well). But what's more disruptive is probably a rather subjective call in the end.
On the commitment: In my view that's something that only works if both sides operate on the same basic rules, namely that you get matched to a lobby and then play that match. But if the killer then gets to commit to a match based on what they see in lobby, yet a survivor doesn't "just because" (since they don't see what's in the lobby with them) then to me that doesn't ring right. In that sense I guess I consider lobby dodging the killer equivalent of running into the killer and immediately taking chances on hook; it's the penalty-free way of noping out of a match that you should be playing.
But instead of "delaying the point of commitment into the match itself" - how about solidifying lobby/a match being found as the "point of commitment". For both sides.
Someone suggested just loading straight into the match without the pre match lobby --- but in theory I suppose that is there so that solos can coordinate builds if they wish to --- and generally allowing people to switch to the builds they want for that match. So while I personally like the idea I don't think it's worth considering. --- But how about giving the "Leave" button in lobby the same treatment as the "Leave Match" button? You leave the lobby, you get a temporary matchmaking ban and have to wait it out before you can queue again. While I'm not a particularly big fan of punitive measures to address an issue I wouldn't necessarily look at it from a "punishment as incentive" perspective but a management perspective; people who very frequently dodge ruin a disproportionate amount of matches for other players so you would want as few of these people queuing at the same time as possible. And this is where the timeout comes in; simply manage the frequency of lobby dodging so that the remaining players have to deal with it less often. People who dodge/dc once in a blue moon for legitimate reasons would hardly notice the minute - while the damage lobby shoppers cause would be minimised for everyone.
sorry for the ramble. Nighttime brain is striking againI'd be fine with seeing nothing of the lobby as you're proposing if the game was balanced around swf and items were reigned in to be balanced (medkits specifically). I'd take that trade. However, if you made those changes people would for the most part stop lobby dodging anyway as that's the reason.
"But if the killer then gets to commit to a match based on what they see in lobby, yet a survivor doesn't "just because" (since they don't see what's in the lobby with them) then to me that doesn't ring right."
I see the double standard here you're referring to. However, the problem here is that there are way more unbalanced and unfair things on the survivor side than the killer side in my opinion as well as the prevalence of each. For example, apart from certain people just disliking specific killers (which isn't really a balance thing), the only things survivors would view as over tuned is maybe a couple killers and a few addons, there really isn't much. Most the issues survivors have is with the play styles in the match itself. Most the killers issues are swf (extremely common at higher mmr), items (extremely prevalent), and some of their meta perks (extremely prevalent). All mostly visible things in lobby essentially.
Somewhat of an apples and oranges comparison I guess is my point.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372815#Comment_3372815
And how many of those games do you win with a Syringe? For me, it's almost all of them.
And I would disagree, you're correct. If there's high MMR lobbies, I haven't found them. I've even kept track of my last 100 games as Killer, decent win percentage, no high MMR consistently. I've played against a couple of bigger streamers, one scrim team and got sent to Europe for one game where I also played against a streamer (hi tru3!). The only thing consistent was that those games would be followed up by absolute cakewalks.
Medkits are busted. Not everyone brings Uberkits however. I bring a Brown Medkit with no addons into every trial with me since I can't trust my teammates to do anything. I suppose I could just bring CoH.
Would I want to play in that scenario? Yes. Would I want to play after 5 of those in a row? Probably not but I might continue to try to outplay and learn something. Maybe I can get in her head, there's always things to do and learn.
What's less important is whether you win or lose. What is more important is why you win or lose.
If I took some person and told you they lost 90% of their games does that mean the other side is OP and needs nerfs?
What about they win 90% of games? Does that mean they are OP and need nerfs?
Or do we actually look at their matches and determine why? If they're losing most matches because they play bad then those losses shouldn't be used as a means of balance. If they win most their matches but the survivors play really bad then that shouldn't be used to infer anything either.
What does matter for inferences is when we compare good vs good to objectively determine balance. Games where people are making many mistakes leaves room for improvement to change the outcome and is giving them agency. Players always need to feel they have agency in changing the games outcome. In good vs good matches there is very little agency for killers outside of tunneling someone out fast for most the killer roster.
I don't care about winning lots of matches against bad players making tons of mistakes. What I do care about is winning matches where it's good vs good players and I had a fair and balanced chance of winning without tunneling.
For you to win against players stacking medkits or bringing syringes you have to being playing vastly better than them, not just oh hey it's a tad more challenging. Playing vastly better isn't quite possible when you're at higher mmr since the skill ceiling is only so high on most killers. If you're winning most your matches at high mmr against top groups I'd say you're probably including a lot of tunneling or you're playing higher tier killers. I don't want tunneling to be apart of the games balance. 12 hooks games should be viable with m1 killers.
Rarely is it ever brown medkits in my games, it's usually at least yellows with yellow addons minimum with many greens/purples + addons. Most groups bring 1 CoH as well to stack with medkits.
You wouldn't want 5 matches of that in row yet that's the amount of swf's in high mmr that we're going against.
Of course you won't agree with any of this if we disagree on the high mmr premise to begin with.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372764#Comment_3372764
I'm talking about the earliest judgement call on the presumed (un)balance of the match. Since survivors can only make that call once the match has started I'm talking about once the match has started. --- And personally I don't see a difference in a killer dodging a lobby and screwing up to five people due to how backfills work - or a survivor DCing/taking chances on hook early match and screwing up to four people due to the situation they leave the remaining players in.
And once it's down to 3v1 we're past the point of that earliest judgement call though, so that is indeed a different story.
Hmm I guess I can see what you're saying. So you view whether it's lobby or in game as basically the same.
I feel like once in game it's causing a lot more disruption and you've already committed to the match. Like for our example a 4 man swf with 4 medkits, once in game I wouldn't dc or anything like that (assume last second item swaps I guess).
For the record though I'm not condoning anybody to do anything, just saying my thought process.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372733#Comment_3372733
A 4-man SWF with med-kits can be balanced, yes. How good are the players? What perks are they bringing? What map are they going to? What Killer are they playing against? What perks is the Killer running? What type of player is the Killer? Things are not so black and white. Unfortunately, you LITERALLY won't know unless you play that match. By dodging, you force someone else who (even by BHVR's standards) WAS NOT supposed to be there.
Could you try to state the last part differently? I do not understand it.
The last part is essentially referencing you saying to just try but is ignoring the abysmal experience for killers at high mmr in good vs good matches with how unbalanced the game is. The second sentence is referencing that you wouldn't agree with this anyway because you don't think those common high mmr vs sweat swf really exists that often so you'd disagree with the base premise.
Essentially your entire premise revolves around those things being essentially okay because "hey the survivors could be bad". Something that is way less likely at high mmr. As said before, you'd disagree with this premise of mmr though which is why we disagree. For reference what if I told you ahead of time that you were going to play against a MDR Spirit with amulet that was just going to hard tunnel and stand in front of the hook this match. Would you want to play that? I mean I could say "hey she could be bad though so it's okay right?" I wouldn't make that argument. If you could know that ahead of time I would expect you to dodge as well.
I also think you downplay extremely, just how much of an advantage 4 medkits is. It isn't even remotely minor. Also with how prevalent BP is now higher quality medkits and addons are much, much more common. I've been starting to track my stats and there's at least one BNP, Syringe, or Styptic in 1/3 games for me now.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372749#Comment_3372749
No, I do not disagree. - Quite the contrary; I do think ultimately it's the balance system that falls short of what it is supposed to achieve. Imo, the biggest part is that loadouts aren't taken into account.
Though, that being said, I am now just even more curious about what your opinion is on survivors getting out of the match asap one way or the other once they realise the match they're in is equally unbalanced.
[This is not supposed to be some kind of gotcha thing. - I just think for consistency's sake you have to either be ok with both - or with neither. For the reasons Pulsar stated in the OP, dodging (as well as quitting) screws the system and the players even more than is already the case and thus it should not be done; don't exacerbate the problem. So I fall on the neither side. - Though I can understand people who fall on the other side; it's already bad and if it's bad in the one or the other way doesn't matter.]
"Though, that being said, I am now just even more curious about what your opinion is on survivors getting out of the match asap one way or the other once they realise the match they're in is equally unbalanced."
Consistency wise yes, I would agree with the inverse as well. I would feel the same exact way for survivor in lobby if they knew they were going to play a match that was extremely unfair and not balanced for.
Since the statement was more vague I'm not sure exactly which scenarios you're referring to as it does change things a little. Such as do you mean after the match has already started or in lobby? I would take much more issue with killer or survivor doing that once the match is started. My statements earlier are referencing more just in lobby for either side.
Or were you actually referencing like once it's down to a 3v1?
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372679#Comment_3372679
I just want to ask a quick question: Do I understand correctly that you have the opinion that because the balance system is at fault, people who opt to not play a match they have determined will be unbalanced are justified to do that [not playing the match]?
Yes.
Do you disagree? If so, why is that?
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@bobateo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369758#Comment_3369758
If it's mythical, then I must have a knack for finding unicorns and fully expect a rainbow with a pot of gold at the end any day now. I've played about 10 matches as surv today and 4 were Killers who 3-genned from the start. 2 SMs, 1 Hag, and 1 Knight. It was astoundingly obvious because I was running Deja Vu and every time I went to the 3 -gen, lo and behold, I found the Killer too.
Please don't say this is 'mythical'. It definitely isn't.
I don't think the general strategy needs to be nuked from orbit. Heck, I play Trapper. But individual Killer ability to hold a 3-gen definitely needs to be looked at. The ease with which some builds can completely stall out a match needs be looked at.
I never said 3 genning wasn't a thing, as you're implying. What I did say was that it didn't drag games to ridiculous times like people say and that it isn't even remotely unwinnable. That's what I actually said.
With Eruption basically gone now a 3 gen is very manageable for good survivors in solo queue.
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"Unfortunately, it really does come down to most people wanting easy games."
This is heavy strawmaning. It is not people wanting "easy games", that would be an easy thing to argue against wouldn't it. It's people wanting balanced and fair matches. Unless you think 4 man swf with 4 medkits is balanced? If you do then we have a slew of other things to disagree on.
"it really does come down to most people wanting easy games. Again, I get it. Losing isn't usually fun."
So by your rational could I just copy paste this any time you ever have anything bad you want changed about survivor? It's not actually a legitimate issue, you're just wanting easy games and don't find losing fun. No, that would be silly. That's why saying this isn't a real argument.
"They'd rather damn someone else who is less experienced than try."
If someone didn't play killer regularly at high mmr that would be an easy statement to say. Of course you don't believe in any of that.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372679#Comment_3372679
He's damning a (likely) less experienced player.
You don't have to dodge. You don't know it's a SWF. You're just refusing to even TRY to improve and have decided to be utterly selfish and search for an easy game while simultaneously screwing over FIVE other people.
I actually think it's quite selfish to expect that killer to suffer through an extremely unbalanced match. Stop blaming the victim and focus on the source, which is whoever is in charge of balancing.
You can usually tell more often than not if it's a swf. You also didn't address the item problem at all.
"Refusing to try" Just lol.
No, it's actually having a good understanding of the games balance and wanting a fair and balanced match where both sides get an equal chance of winning. You just want the killer to suffer so someone else doesn't have to suffer. That's twisted. That's like telling you to play a match against me blindfolded and with a hand tied behind your back. Oh that's not fair? "Just try man" That would be silly.
The rational response here would be to push for balance changes that would make killers not feel like they need to dodge in order to get balanced matches.
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I think it has more to do with items or looking like a swf than it does prestige.
"Personally, I think that if you dodge (assuming you don't see a potential cheater) you are knowingly and purposefully screwing up the system."
I disagree with this. The entity at fault is the game being poorly balanced and people having to dodge matches the game isn't balanced for. They're doing the work the balance team should be doing.
This would be like saying if I'm in a 4 man swf with 4 medkits the killer is the bad person for dodging, of which I whole heartedly disagree with. He is absolutely justified in dodging that. The game isn't balanced for that.
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Perks have been updated to reflect some changes suggested.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372444#Comment_3372444
Ok, what about this. I still don't like the idea of snipes without warning with simple Monitor and abuse. Do you think it solves the issue?
Also gave him part of the reload add-ons as base kit
Snipes without warning isn't a real thing in the first place. Opening eyes and looking around stops that.
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Yeah the communities been wanting a werewolf/vampire esq killer for a while. I was hoping for a werewolf working around scents as you mentioned as well. Hopefully soon.
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All sounds good to me.
I’d remove the lullaby as well though, unnecessary.
Id also increase the range of his redeemers shot a bit.
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STBFL is fine.
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Unfortunately they’re releasing bad perks that already need huge buffs/reworks at a faster pace than they’re fixing them.
First step is to stop just throwing new chapter perks out in such bad states. Like look at this latest chapter for example, we just added another at least 6+ really, really bad perks to the pool already needing huge changes and currently never to be seen again. These perks shouldn’t be making it so far down the development pipeline and even to release in such abysmal states. They need experienced players reviewing this stuff ahead of time.
This is essentially the exact same issue they have with maps, killers, addons. They’re releasing badly designed maps, killers and addons at a faster rate than they’re changing them. They have to get ahead of the work load or they’re never going to get on top of it. We can’t get all the old things fixed up if we’re still releasing them in already horrid states. Some of the worse designed maps and killers were even in the most recent content releases.
If they aren’t going to get ahead of the problem we are going to need buff/reworks at a pace way, way faster than 2 per chapter. That isn’t even scratching the surface.
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Against: Spirit and Huntress probably
As: Dredge or Plague
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Could we get an "Acknowledged" so we know it's something on the radar?