Blueberry
Blueberry
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1119985#Comment_1119985
The topic of this post is to express my opinion that there are perks BETTER at stalling gens than BBQ, yet the people that want precious BPs who have trouble stopping gens run BBQ almost every match.
I have little to no trouble running a perk like BBQ because I’m skilled enough to stall gens (enough) with my pressure. Some players can’t but still run BBQ.
"The topic of this post is to express my opinion that there are perks BETTER at stalling gens than BBQ, yet the people that want precious BPs who have trouble stopping gens run BBQ almost every match."
I think you underestimate how much the information BBQ gives you slows down survivors through increasing your efficiency. You also overestimate how effective many slow down perks are. Killers switching out BBQ for one of the slow down perks you mentioned isn't going to solve the problem.
"I have little to no trouble running a perk like BBQ because I’m skilled enough to stall gens (enough) with my pressure. Some players can’t but still run BBQ."
BBQ isn't a deciding factor in this scenario. Most the slow down perks in DBD are quite ineffective.
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@Rey_512 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1119958#Comment_1119958
Thrilling is still a better alternative to BBQ (in my opinion) since it guarantees a 16 second stall on any gen not being worked on and situational awareness regardless of distance.
I think it depends what killer you're playing. However, which one is better has nothing to do with the topic of this post.
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@Rey_512 said:
Blueberry,
I’m not saying Thrilling Tremors (or any perk combo) will SOLVE gen speeds. I’m saying Killer Players that use BBQ and have trouble slowing gens down are better off using other perks SUCH AS Thrilling.
I know that's what you are saying and I'm telling you that TT does not help gens speeds at all compared to BBQ. Getting rid of BBQ isn't gonna help your gen speeds unless you're dropping it for something like Pop, and even then you need at least one tracking perk to make proper use of Pop.
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While TT is situationally better than BBQ it does nothing to solve gen times so that kinda negates the entire main point of this post. It isn't a gen slow down perk, it's an information perk. It gives more reliable information but it also has a pointless cooldown and the blocked gens pause regression.
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Because there is context to everything. He could say "#########" in reference to being on the hook or a play you made in game that caused you to die.
There are too many contextual circumstances to simply ban those words. Just report it.
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Not even a remotely close call. Killers need buffs.
The main issue is maps but there are still many killers that are way below par.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1118665#Comment_1118665
I think he accidentally quoted the wrong person.
That's what I was thinking lol
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@NullEXE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1118635#Comment_1118635
I guarentee you more people work on bug fixing, and overral programing of the games design than there are people making cosmetics.
Maybe? Idk
What does that have to do with my post? lol
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Your title should be "fix dedicated servers". This has nothing to do with Dead Hard and everything to do with ping from the dedicated servers.
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@gatsby said:
@Blueberry I've played with For the People on PTB.
It's only useful to pick up dying teammates. And if the killer stays nearby when they down someone, you probably won't be able to get close without taking a hit (which deactivates the perk since you need to be full health to use it).
The only scenario For the People could be strong in is a SWF with teammates that will bodyblock the person with For the People so they can get in position without taking damage.
It counters slugging quite hard which is the only way killers are winning in the current meta. It also sets you up with a DH right after using it. Bar end game, most killers aren't sitting on top of their slug anyway. Especially if they just downed them and know they aren't near being recovered yet.
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For the People is extremely strong and honestly needs a nerf before coming to live servers. I don't think you're realizing how strong and abusable that perk is. It will be meta.
Red Herring is situationally decent. A better version of pebble.
Off the Record is quite bad and needs some buffs.
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That would still be useless in most cases.
It needs to give its reduced TR in AND out of chase. Also not be removed on the Obsessions death.
Now it's alright.
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I agree, there's quite a long list of completely busted maps.
Maps like Ormond you are not winning unless you're playing a top tier killer or the survivors completely throw the game. The win or loss is totally in their hands.
Lots of them have design issues, but even just shrinking many of them down tremendously would do a lot.
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@TAG said:
1) Mostly undo the EGC nerf. Trap placed on Survivors automatically become active if all the gens are finished, but not if the Hatch is closed (so that the last Survivor isn't completely screwed unless their Trap is already live). Instead, make the EGC timer pause as long as at least one Survivor is wearing a Reverse Bear Trap.
2) The first box a Survivor searches is always auto-fail.
3) The roar on the ambush is moved to at least half-charge (if not later) instead of at the start.
4) An add-on overhaul. She desperately needs one IMO.
This list sums it up pretty good. ^^
I think the roar really needs to be at the end of her ambush. To me this is more important than any other change on the list as it's what makes her ambush actually viable and gives her some loop counter. I can't believe its current state has remained as it has for so long, near unusable against anyone half competent.
I'd also add Rule Set #2 base kit and raise the view point of her crouch to match its actual height (really annoying not seeing over grass).
If she received all these things she'd probably make it to high B or low A tier. That doesn't seem unreasonable.
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It would be neat.
I especially want the rank and hours played to show. That was one of the biggest benefits to the previous forums on steam that we used to use before this website existed. You were able to snapshot their experience. Now everyone can just lie and make stuff up.
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To me personally it looks pathetic. I never leave a man behind in those scenarios unless he deserved it for playing really badly and costing us the game, the killer is face camping him, or he was toxic.
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I wouldn't have an issue with the Obsession not really being a downside, except that the devs have stated it as in fact being a downside to using a perk. Being the Obsession is not a downside because of a chance that the killer is running a perk, that's ridiculous.
It either needs to actually have a realistic downside at base game or the perks that consider becoming the Obsession a downside need to actually be given a downside.
It's kind of like the joke about something the survivors can do being too easy or too strong so they slap a skill check on it...oh now it's super difficult and risky (sarcasm). That's kinda the same impression I get with Obsession these days being used as a "downside".
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At the end of the day she's just an M1 killer with a below average stealth mechanic and an unreliable game slow down.
If her ambush wasn't extremely bad and actually countered loops she would be quite decent. However currently 9/10 times you are better off just standing up and M1'ing. That is a sign of a poorly implemented mechanic. You are almost never hitting someone with an ambush unless they are playing like a complete potato. There is too much warning of the ambush(and even crouch) given to survivors.
With the terrible height in her crouch where you can't even see over grass and the heavy slow down it gives, you have to use it very sparingly.
Most people pointing out traps as the main issue with her aren't correct imo. Her traps do need improvements, like being more consistent time wasters and reverting their change to end game activation, but her biggest issue is as I mentioned earlier, her ambush.
She also has quite a few issues with her addons.
Against competent rank 1 survivors that know what they're doing Pig is getting destroyed quite easily, luckily the average survivor is a potato even at rank 1, so she looks stronger than she actually is.
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+1 These changes would make him solid.
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@Cabbage said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1112017#Comment_1112017
What you're saying is that there is 24 hooks on all maps? Which is completely false. There would be barely any distance between the with that many on the map. Again I just said that these were just my personal ideas and the range could be increased slightly. The whole reason Hangman's got buffed was to prevent the killer carrying a survivor to a hook that's about to be saboed. It wasn't intended as a way to find survivors to go after next, rather to just avoid sabotaged hooks. Currently it's showing people on the complete opposite side of the map, who are no threat to you getting to hook the survivor.
And as a survivor why would you want to stand completelty still for however long it takes for the killer to hook the survivor, you're just wasting time at that point.
"The whole reason Hangman's got buffed was to prevent the killer carrying a survivor to a hook that's about to be saboed."
That is an assumption. It was changed because its previous function didn't work with the sabo changes. If the perk was literally just designed for countering Sabo the perk would never be ran because you never know when people are running Sabo or not. That would be terrible.
"It wasn't intended as a way to find survivors to go after next, rather to just avoid sabotaged hooks."
You are assuming this. They haven't actually said this. For all we know they are taking its design in a new direction.
"And as a survivor why would you want to stand completelty still for however long it takes for the killer to hook the survivor, you're just wasting time at that point."
So that he has no idea where you are at. The game is already way too fast for killers. As survivor you have time to waste. You are not on the time crunch, the killer is.
"Again I just said that these were just my personal ideas and the range could be increased slightly."
Your changes are just extreme overkill. Drop 2 and 3. Make the hook distance 10m, that's a reasonable change.
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@Cabbage said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1112001#Comment_1112001
2 wouldn't even have that much of an impact, as it would then still allow for the use of BBQ, otherwise the perk is useless except for the bloodpoints. 6 hooks would give you half of the map, the aura reading range on the hooks is massive. And then if you ran BBQ you could see the remainder of the survivors on the other half of the map. As it stands the devs will absolutely be nerfing the perk, cause it's what they do, I personally don't want it to change.
Only showing moving survivors pretty much means it's exactly the same as it is now, you've just broken it down into individual statements.
"6 hooks would give you half of the map, the aura reading range on the hooks is massive."
6 hooks would be around 1/4 of the map BUT you said only 5 meters...that is tiny as hell. You could make it map wide at 5 meters and you'd still hardly see anyone with half a brain.
Regardless of how much better Hangmans could be than BBQ people will still run BBQ just for the blood points.
"Only showing moving survivors pretty much means it's exactly the same as it is now, you've just broken it down into individual statements."
Not even remotely. Currently it's showing you regardless of how you're moving. With my change standing still would make it show the killer nothing.
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You could literally have stopped after just number 1 and the perk would still be trash at that point. Adding 2 and 3 makes the perk not even close to being ran by anyone and is just overkill by a massive margin.
Keep it's current state it has on the PTB but make it only show moving survivors or survivors interacting (gens, totems etc). This makes the counter be simply standing still.
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Nice post. I agree with almost all of it.
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@mmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1109843#Comment_1109843
9 to 12 most of the time
That's why it's so frustrating. I worked hard to get just to this rank. I expected survivors would start playing more intelligently as my rank got better. That hasn't happened.
This is why. Survivors at those ranks are complete potatoes that don't know what they're doing. When you get to rank 1 you start seeing a lot more of the better players.
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@FearedbytheGods said:
Truthfully, its the attitude of killer mains nowadays.
Having played since release I've seen killer get easier, survivor get harder. FULL STOP.
Infinites gone, vaulting/perk/map/pallet nerfs, bloodlust added, end game timer added, hatch close added. All this has made being killer easier and survivor harder since release.
2 escapes, 2 kills is the devs unit of metric. You don’t have to like that but it’s whats given the survivors all their nerks and all the killers current buffs.
You look at the SB vs. NOED debates that happend at release all those years ago. SB now is mediocre at best where as NOED is still a high tier perk.
Killers now are up around 70% kills due to the trajectory of the game and the devs metric system, unless you feel their metric system is bad, in which case they can undo all the changes I've just mentioned....
It's only been recently that killers have started getting push back from devs because the state of the game is disconnecting survivors who know a game is going to end in a 4k so why bother for 3k BP.
And what do we see? Thread after thread recently of killers whining. People talk about salty survivors alot in this forum but ignore the elephant in the room.
So much of this information is completely out of touch with the game and inaccurate.
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It all comes down to if they buff him properly enough coming out of PTB to be high rank viable.
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It just needs to make the gen completely silent, not reduce the distance like it currently does, that's it.
This could allow "sniping" gens that the killer doesn't even realize are being worked on as most killers just do drive by checks where they only get close enough to hear it and that's it. He would think no one was working on it.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1109914#Comment_1109914
That's an excellent point you make about snowballing with game speeds as they currently are, and one that I'll admit I (stupidly) hadn't considered. It's just a pity that the ranking system punishes it so unreasonably.
I think, or at least hope, that the devs have learned their lesson about overnerfing things right out the gate. They have said so themselves fairly recently. The best course of action, and the one I expect them to take, would be to wait a few weeks, see how Hangman's Trick gets used, study the data and only then consider making some very careful changes if they turn out to be necessary.
I actually really love your suggestion about having it only work on moving survivors, though I think moving should also include performing actions. So it forces survivors to stand there and do nothing for ten seconds or risk revealing their locations to the killer. It seems fun and unique, and I say that as a survivor main. My only concern is with how it would be affected by latency, but I suppose if the survivors stop moving a second or two early to allow for latency, it shouldn't be much of a problem.
"though I think moving should also include performing actions. So it forces survivors to stand there and do nothing for ten seconds or risk revealing their locations to the killer. It seems fun and unique, and I say that as a survivor main."
I actually like that change a lot, seems fair.
"It's just a pity that the ranking system punishes it so unreasonably."
That's one of the issues with the ranking system we have. It rewards you for playing inneficiently and punishes you for playing efficiently.
"My only concern is with how it would be affected by latency, but I suppose if the survivors stop moving a second or two early to allow for latency, it shouldn't be much of a problem."
I don't think latency would really matter much in this scenario, especially when latency is working on hook shots and hatchet throws which are much more affected by it and they are working (all be it rough these days).
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1109879#Comment_1109879
Oh yeah, I definitely don't think it's about to replace BBQ, but it is better. Perhaps not overpoweringly so, but it's a close call.
It's nice that the new HT discourages slugging. I think that's good perk design, to introduce mechanics that reward "fun" gameplay rather than punishing people for employing unfun but effective tactics like slugging. I'd be very hesitant to refer to hooking survivors as giving up pressure, though. Hooking and slugging are just different ways of applying pressure, and the former is usually better, except under particular circumstances.
HT may be counterable in the same way as BBQ, but it's worth noting that the counter is more difficult to pull off. With BBQ, you have about 3-10 seconds to find and get into a locker while the killer travels to the hook, but with HT you only have the time in between when the survivor goes down and when they get picked up if you want to avoid its effects completely.
I guess we'll have to wait a bit and see what people do with it. Best not to nerf things straight out of the gate, but HT may or may not end up needing it in the long run.
"It's nice that the new HT discourages slugging. I think that's good perk design, to introduce mechanics that reward "fun" gameplay rather than punishing people for employing unfun but effective tactics like slugging."
Agree completely.
"I'd be very hesitant to refer to hooking survivors as giving up pressure, though. Hooking and slugging are just different ways of applying pressure, and the former is usually better, except under particular circumstances."
While I agree that hooking is still applying pressure, they are quite different. You can apply pressure enough to win through slugging. You are not applying enough pressure through hooking alone to win against good survivors. You would need too many hooks with not enough time. In the current meta you win through snowballing, not hooking people one at a time. We're more just disagreeing on my verbiage though than the actual premise I suppose. I was meaning to speak more in generalities than specifically.
"HT may be counterable in the same way as BBQ, but it's worth noting that the counter is more difficult to pull off. With BBQ, you have about 3-10 seconds to find and get into a locker while the killer travels to the hook, but with HT you only have the time in between when the survivor goes down and when they get picked up if you want to avoid its effects completely."
That is true. I'm not sure if I think it's enough to make the perk overbearing though.
As you mentioned earlier I do very much like the perks design of encouraging "fun" game play though. I just worry they are gonna nerf it too much to where no one runs it since it won't be worth the cost and then it's a missed opportunity on a really well designed perk. For the massive amount of bonus blood points BBQ gives it would still need to be decently better information for it to be worth running instead to most people.
What if it stayed the same but only worked on moving survivors? So if they stood perfectly still it wouldn't show them unless they moved.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1109856#Comment_1109856
And the minimum spawn distance between hooks is 20 metres, I believe... so that's basically map-wide aura reading as long as you're carrying a survivor. That's pretty powerful, I can understand why people might feel like it's too much.
I can see why they would feel that way.
Keep in mind though, it requires you to down someone to get any value in the first place. Then it also requires you to pick them up, so it discourages you from slugging. This means you also are having to give up map pressure (slugging) to get its value as well. Also, just like BBQ the survivors can simply jump in a locker when someone goes down and avoid it entirely if they aren't able to simply walk away from any hooks.
Not saying it isn't very strong, it is. I just think people might be underselling its cost. It's better than BBQ but BBQ also has a blood point bonus attached with it as well. Even if Hangmans remained this way coming out of PTB I still think you'd see people running both because of their differences.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1109827#Comment_1109827
Any hook? And what's the range?
Any hook. 16m of them.
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The only thing I've seen them say is that they are keeping an eye on it.
I personally like it a lot and hope it stays. It's better than BBQ but BBQ gives the bloodpoint bonus so I still think we'd see both if it stayed.
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@TrashKate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1109570#Comment_1109570
So hitboxes working as intended is bad? lol
You misunderstand, they aren’t working as intended. Watch ScottJunds stream where he slows down the shot clips and you’ll see how buggy the shots are from ping with dedicated servers. Improving their hit box is to compensate for that.
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@FIEND8LOODED said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1109584#Comment_1109584
Can he not already down injured survivors with his power?
No, he can't.
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@MrPeterPFL said:
While I agree on the pallet thing, however, I do believe he’s weak, Death Slinger should be the same level as Huntress but with a different play style, the buff I would recommend is to allow his power to down injured survivors.
I would totally take that option as an alternative, either one.
I also think his hitbox needs a slight improvement. This isn't because his smaller one is bad, but because it's currently getting screwed by the ping with dedicated servers and it needs to be slightly larger to compensate for the delay.
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@Dead_by_chrissy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1109570#Comment_1109570
His hitbox just isn't as bad as huntress. Literally just be good at FPS and you'll be a god deathslinger lmao
You should watch ScottJunds stream where he slows down the video clips of the Redeemers shots. It illustrates how unforgiving they are compared to Huntresses. It isn't a matter of being good at FPS's. You'll see in the clips how even shots directly on the survivors can miss because of the ping with dedicated servers.
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@FIEND8LOODED said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1109560#Comment_1109560
Why would it only be reasonable if he was 115%? I'm literally describing what I do with him right now that works for me.
Because at 110% you are wasting a lot of time getting both you on the same side enough to where that is reasonable.
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Yeah that's just you. His Redeemers hit box is extremely unforgiving and is actually one of the things he needs improved.
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Your recommended strategy would be reasonable if he was a 115% killer, but he's not.
The counter play is avoiding the hit in the first place which is reasonable since he's 110% and his hit box is much less forgiving than Huntresses.
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Replace number 3 with the survivors just having less control over the chain and I think those 3 would make him solid.
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Legion imo
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I think people are underestimating how strong and abusable this perk is. This is gonna be a new meta perk.
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I think he should be able to pull them over pallets/windows if he's able to land the hook. I also feel the amount of control survivors have while hooked needs to be reduced.
I'd rather make his power strong enough to be worthy of 110 instead of just making him 115.
Currently just feels like he has way too many downsides for very little upsides. Doesn't feel rewarding enough if you play well.
Just early impressions though so we'll see.
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It's a weak combo anyway.
The times that would make Off the Record better than Iron Will are extremely slim and situational.
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She still needs other changes but yeah it's definitely a good start.
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Great: Black Incense
Terrible: Yamaoka Family Crest
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They're pretty minor, but yeah definitely a step in the right direction. Let's see if it continues or not.
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Breakable walls aren't an excuse to make loops stronger, that would defeat the entire point. You do that and now the killer is forced to break them just to get the loops back to their current state as they are right right now.
It's like putting an item on sale at a store but marking its base price higher so that the "sale" just gets the price back to what it would have been originally before the sale price change was added to begin with.
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I feel the complete opposite. Most the originals are really bad and the indoor ones feel much better designed to me.
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Shifting all her addons that improve her Corrupt Purge into ones that add illnesses (status effects) to staying infected and broken would be a good start. This puts a hard cap on the strength of her Corrupt Purge but adding differing incentives to get survivors to cleanse more and changing her game play a little based on which illnesses (addons) she was using.
Obviously we also don't like killers being addon dependent to function properly but I still think this would be a net positive change. I do think at base though she should get a small 4 meter reduced TR per survivor fully infected and broken. This would make it a little more dangerous to stay infected without adding any "unfun" mechanics to it like just plain slower gen speeds.