Blueberry
Blueberry
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He's still pretty weak.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2112588#Comment_2112588
Victor moves at 150% speed and has an unlimited window to operate in. And extra 2 seconds means nothing.
Those 2 seconds are massive. Even ignoring the just flat extra wasted time, those 2 seconds essentially kills his chain slug potential with how wide his kick window is. This is not a minor nerf whatsoever.
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I'd much rather see a hook/pick rate graph.
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Victor move speed addons with tiny sword by default. Spin Top if there's 2+ medkits.
Lots of their other addons are more memes than they are practical.
Corrupt, Ruin, Undying, and BBQ.
Corrupt because it lets me get everyone injured before losing my first gen.
Ruin/Undying is pretty bad since Undying got gutted but it gets defaulted as her gen slow down because you're in Victor 90% of the time so you really just don't have time for something like Pop.
BBQ because every single hook gives you an immediate direction for Victor to pressure.
There's other perks that would synergize nice with The Twins play style like Sloppy or Knockout but are rendered pointless to run since as we mentioned the majority of the time you should be in Victor anyway and neither of those would apply. I would generally apply the same rational to NC. Coulrophobia has extreme negative synergy with The Twins as you very rarely actually have a TR in the first place, much less is the perk good even if that wasn't the case.
They have a lot of negative synergy with perks rendering their options quite limited.
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I really hope this patch was not one of those "hyped updates" he referenced because bar a couple good changes this update is mostly awful.
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Where's the poll option for it being a pretty bad perk that's nothing but meme's?
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It's absolutely bizarre.
Here I was expected buffs for the Twins...like removing the ability to kick Victor after a successful hit...because you know you played skillfully..and punishing the killer for playing well makes no sense..
And...they did literally the complete opposite. Wild.
It feels just completely disconnected.
The Twins already have significant counter play and even 3 seconds was already extremely long. I could literally run around the entire loop and still have time to kick him after a lunge...and were increasing that to 5 lol
I don't know what they're thinking.
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Here's how you fix Twins.
Remove the ability to kick Victor after a successful lunge. Period.
Significantly increase the distance Charlotte has to be from the hook to switch unless survivors are within proximity. This gets rid of the hook camping with Charlotte.
Significantly reduce the switching time between Charlotte and Victor. This further encourages skilled play and using them to tag team.
While a survivor holds Victor, Charlotte gains Undetectable. This prevents taking him hostage.
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@DemonDaddy said:
Balance for the top means victory is from your actions not handed to you by design.
Balancing for anything lower only obscures problems devs could otherwise see and address more quickly.
This ^
Balancing around the top players means everyone wins or loses based on their skill. IE you have control over the outcome of the match.
When you balance around low ranks you have high rank matches where you don't lose because of your skill, you lose because of balance problems. IE you don't have control over the outcome in some matches.
Balancing around every match being in your control of whether you win or lose is good design.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2103434#Comment_2103434
The flashbacks commence
True lol
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@Nullclines said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2103468#Comment_2103468
I don't think abusing is the right word here.
Trolling by running 4 bugged Breakdowns: abusing.
Using a perk that does what it says in the description: not abusing.
"I don't think abusing is the right word here.
Trolling by running 4 bugged Breakdowns: abusing."
Trolling is not the right word. Trolling is usually throwing the game for meme's. That is not even remotely the same thing.
Abusing is referencing using something for more than its intended purpose for a greater effect.
"Using a perk that does what it says in the description: not abusing."
By that definition old DS was fine. Which it definitely was not. That's a poor way of determining abuse.
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@Azshhh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2103468#Comment_2103468
gonna use a killer argument against you here.
Just because you don't like it or find it frustrating, doesn't make it wrong. Taking advantage of invulnerability to protect a teammate is a perfectly legitimate tactic just like tunneling/camping a survivor out of the game to give yourself an edge is.
Don't like it or finding it frustrating are neither of the issues I have with BT.
It's an over tuned perk. It blows out almost all other perks from being considered.
Anti-tunnel/camp is fine, extra health states for playing bad is not. It's essentially the same issue DS had.
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@indieeden7 said:
Not really? It just makes it so it works against stealth killers. Don't want to deal with it? Go after the unhooker.
How about we just make the rescued survivor lose collision for the duration of BT then?
Then we can actually go after the unhooker like you say instead of abusing the BT to block for the rescuer.
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Why would this update make people want to play killer more?
This update will reduce the people wanting to play killer even more...
It's overall a ton of killer nerfs and the few killer "buffs" are near irrelevant changes.
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@EQWashu said:
I personally like the change to BT, but I can understand the concerns being brought up as well. I feel the PTB will give a lot of insight and feedback to how the changes work in many different scenarios.
If the perk is to prevent tunneling the person off the hook, why do you allow it to be used aggressively like DS to give an extra health state to the rescuer?
Why not make the rescued survivor lose collision so he remains safe without allowing abuse of the perk? This would even buff the perk for anti-tunneling as it even protects them from chain hits like a Bubba saw.
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Speedrunners are not even remotely the same as 1% skill level players.
That's not an accurate comparison.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
uhh , yeah no, twins main here, unless ur playing scummy, this wont affect you at all
Unless you play in that way you lose. Sorry but that's just facts.
If you want to nerf that play style then make another viable.
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@Freddy96 said:
Lol twins is one of the most broken killers atm, if all 4 survivors are injured there's no way they can get away with it unless you have an hex and they all have soul guard. 5 seconds cooldown is applied only after downing a survivor which gives some more counterplay to mass slugging twins otherwise if you go for mixed hooks without ever slugging you're not gonna get hurt by it
"5 seconds cooldown is applied only after downing a survivor which gives some more counterplay to mass slugging twins otherwise if you go for mixed hooks without ever slugging you're not gonna get hurt by it"
IE play in a very weak way that loses you the game and the change is not a problem lol
That heavy slugging play style is the only way the Twins are viable. If they want to nerf that they need to improve other play styles for them.
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That's the change it should have had, remove the collision of the rescued survivor.
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Lol no, just no.
I'll put it this way. Not only is it not good, but it is worse than using no addons...
It literally hurts you more than it helps.
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Absolutely terrible Twins change.
They heavily nerfed her only viable strategy without actually buffing her in other areas to make those more viable.
They're really trying to kill off the only 3 people that play them. As if we don't already never see them.
So disconnected with the game.
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A couple good changes but overall bad. Lots of changes that show a lack of fundamental understanding of the game.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/241940/about-iri-head
Whats black box do?
Blocks gates for someone that falls asleep for 10 seconds...lol
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All they had to do was remove the timer. No one was asking for this change.
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I actually really like the look of it aesthetically. I think it's nice for variety to have some darker and some lighter maps.
I think it fits because it isn't technically day, it's supposed to be just before sunrise.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2100489#Comment_2100489
She's not that weak at all.
If survivors don't cleanse, she's still a 115% M1 killer with a ranged version of Legions power.
If they do cleanse, she's 115% Huntress.
Infecting things serves to put pressure or can lead to information (infecting a gen, survivor becomes infected, they're on that gen)
Run Thanatophobia to get survivors to cleanse.
115% killer with all survivors staying broken/sick is not strong. There are more than enough pallets for the gens to be done before they even run out. Staying injured all game is not that dangerous.
If they do cleanse her Corrupt Purge is strong but way overrated and exaggerated. I can loop a corrupt purge Plague for quite a while. She is also forced to respect every pallet.
Plague is the epitome of a no pressure killer because there is no healing going on. She is a snowball killer, not a pressure killer.
Thanatophobia is a trash/noob trap perk. It isn't very good even in its best case scenarios.
Plague is weak.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2100500#Comment_2100500
She does get a boost, she can see where that survivor is at all times.
The only reason for the 'recall' option is so survivors can't troll by holding her power hostage.
That isn't a boost. Seeing where they are is so insignificant, IE why people still hold him hostage.
They currently can hold him hostage. The time for return is too long.
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It doesn't make any sense. It's poor design.
She either needs to be able to retrieve him immediately or give Charlotte a boost while Victors being held hostage, IE like Undetectable until returned. There needs to be some sort of urgency to want to give him back.
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Plague.
There are a lot of design flaws with her that need addressing. She's also just quite weak.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2096231#Comment_2096231
When I mean balance, I mean killers that offer fun gameplay for both sides and offer equal chance to counter each other. Nurse and Spirit don’t do that because once they’re in a 1v1 scenario, the survivor can’t really do anything except for pray the killer messes up. That’s not fun and exciting gameplay. You can say that the majority of the killer roster can’t win against good teams all you want. I understand survivors have unfair things that they can use but it still shouldn’t justify Nurse and Spirit being fair killers either. I play both sides and I understand the frustrations for both sides.
I disagree with you about Spirits counter play but we don’t have to get into that here as it’s been done ad nauseum on these forums already. You say fun and equal counter play on both sides, but Oni and Blight since those are your examples do not have equal counter play to the survivors actions if it is equally good vs good survivors. You are referencing an “average” match. I already explained the difference between these two questions in my last post. If you want to ask most balanced match in average games then sure I’ll agree with you but they are not balanced objectively.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2096210#Comment_2096210
Most games my team don't run DS, killer gets easy tunnel and wins. I unfortunately can't control what my team use at all. Idk if my team win the games I'm tunneled first but in majority of the games where someone else is tunneled first we lose.
If your main complaint is getting tunneled then why not run the anti tunnel perk? That’s literally why it exists. If you are the first one tunneled in the majority of your games then you must be making many bad plays or being toxic to the killer as I play way, way more than the average person without even running DS and this very rarely happens to me. I wonder if you make be considering situations tunneling that aren’t truly tunneling. I would say that 90% of the time one of my teammates calls the killer a tunneled he wasn’t truly tunneling or my teams actions forced it on him.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2096221#Comment_2096221
Yeah, but those teams that can’t be countered unless you have Nurse or Spirit are so rare that it isn’t that big of a deal.
The rarity of those teams is completely irrelevant to the question. The question is what killer is the most balanced. You determine balance based on equally good vs good team both utilizing their tools to the best of their capabilities. That is determining what is truly balanced objectively. This is why I said “unless you want to ask the question of balanced vs the average survivor”, as that’s an entirely different question and answer and where the likelihood of running into one of those skilled teams as you mention does in fact matter.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2096199#Comment_2096199
Oni in the early game does a little, but a good player will get that first hit quickly and once they do, Oni will be able to get his power going and start the snowballing process.
S tier is viable against equally good survivors. Oni and Blight are not S tier. A tier requires at least some survivors mistakes to capitalize on. To beat an efficient team with either of them you will be slugging and that team will have 4 Unbreakables and probably at least 1 WGLF. IE you will be forced to be one hooking each of them one by one. Playing that way is literally unviable when you add up the time for your objective compared to theirs.
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I run solo queue just fine without any problems. Also if the killer truly is eating through DS stuns to continue tunneling and still wins the game then tunneling isn’t the real issue, y’all were playing very badly.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2096185#Comment_2096185
Blight and Oni are very strong killers that can beat good teams but they’re also fundamentally balanced.
No they don’t. They both require ample survivor mistakes.
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Ironically the killers most people like to call “unbalanced” are the only killers that stand a fair chance of winning against equally good survivors. Most the killers people have listed here require lots of survivor mistakes to win and will lose against equally good survivors. “Balanced” to me is having a fair chance of winning against equally good survivors. Very few killers meet that criteria. The level and ease of counter play that most people want in a killer to call them fair is simply unviable if the survivor group is good. If you want to specify most balanced against the “average” survivor then that’s a completely different question and answer.
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Just drop the cooldown, it's completely unnecessary. That's like the bare minimum it needs.
Hemorrhage is just completely terrible as the value it gives is almost non existent. It needs a rework.
(Bake Bloodhound into Hemorrhage and make the new Bloodhound show blood auras at like a 4meter range)
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2094302#Comment_2094302
Fair enough.
To clarify, I didn’t say the current state of survivor is unplayable. I play solo just fine most of the time, without meta perks.
Then if unplayable was instead referencing how extreme you thought the changes I wanted to the game were, which changes were you referencing specifically? I don't think anything I've referenced for the game is near that extreme.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2094215#Comment_2094215
How much genuine, serious time have you invested into Clown?
Really?
You kinda leave the impression that no killer is strong enough until the game is completely unplayable Survivor. I don’t know if that is or isn’t in fact your intention, but it is the impression you leave a lot of the time.
Quite a lot of time. The .01% was obviously an exaggeration, but my point remains.
If the killer doesn't have a fair chance of winning against 4 equally good survivors I don't consider them strong. The vast majority of the killer roster does not fit that criteria.
"Unplayable as survivor" is quite a ridiculous exaggeration as well. I play solo queue the vast majority of the time and it is not even remotely in the field of unplayable. Even in solo queue I am quite the power role and it's not even close.
I simply recognize how unbalanced the game is. I disagree with probably the vast majority of the points you make on here.
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Better? Sure.
Good? Not even remotely.
.01% better is still better technically.
The change didn't do anything significant for him and was near a waste of time. He's still in the same spot on the tier list.
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- Hit or pallet in 15 seconds or less and then rotate to another survivor.
- Rinse and repeat.
Go for a second hit if they happen to position poorly. Otherwise go back to 1.
Hit or pallet longer than 15-20 seconds is losing you the game.
This advise will take you far.
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"Now ds is a useless perk slot, since you will never get to use it as you are not tunneled."
Logical fallacy.
If you didn't get tunneled because there's an Obsession from running DS then it did in fact prevent you from getting tunneled. It did its job.
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Hallelujah
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Crowd Controls not good enough to be a hex. If you want blocked windows take Bamboozle.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2084250#Comment_2084250
The only perk that has a cooldown for justifiable reasons is Thrilling Tremors
I'd actually disagree on that one.
Remove the cooldown, but limit it to one activation per down to block abuse.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2084038#Comment_2084038
Looking at you blood echo!
Blood Echo as well!
We could go on and on. There are so many perks that have completely unnecessary cooldowns on them.
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Poor Surge.
Needs its cooldown and basic attack requirement removed.
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It's balanced.
That said, it was balanced before its nerf as well.
If Pop was a new perk released today it would have a pointless 60 second cooldown on it or something.
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I get very rarely tunneled or camped. Not to mention if you were actually legitimately being tunneled/camped your DS would be working.
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Boring? Yeah
Too strong? Definitely not
Yet here we are about to nerf him instead of fixing the real issue.
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Nothing since there was a key.
While not changing the outcome of this, you could improve your observation when looking around a lot. You literally just look in the direction you're moving. IE while moving forward your camera should be looking left, right, and all around. The way you move makes it very easy for you to miss seeing a survivor.