BlueRose
BlueRose
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As others said BHVR has the right to change any character and not offer refunds since the game is a live service game. That said I do believe they should either offer shard refund and delete SM or postpone the rework till they come up with something better for her. I have never seen a rework in any live service game that makes a character competely useless until now. If this rework SM makes it to live I'm confident to say she be weaker than Trapper and F-tier killer. Basically, a killer with no power whatsoever.
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Main thing I hate about the combo is how fast survivors can use the perks. They can use this combo as the killer is recovering from a successful hit cooldown meaning the killer can't do a damn thing to stop it. In some cases it can lead to a free escape. Just the other day I was chasing a injured Michaela and a healthy Kate as Xeno during end game. My plan was to down the Michaela and then chase the Kate out of the match so I could claim my only kill in the match. The second I down the Michaela I saw the Kate turn around and while I was recovering Kate ftp the Michaela. During those few seconds I knew there was nothing I could do now to prevent either of them from ecaping.
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@Chaosrider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/392098/why-should-killers-play-nice-and-fair
Typical killer logic. Stop claiming that survivors can play unfair. They cant. Only killers are able to circumvent basic gameplay and make the game miserable for anyone they chose. If you get triggered by an emote after you already lost the game, its up to you.
Typical survivor logic. Blaming killers for all their problems and thinking they can't do anything wrong whatsoever. News flash my guy both sides have tools to make the game infuriating for the other. Not every survivor is poor lil angles who are being bulled by the big bad killer.
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Last night I had a match in cowshed and played pretty fair as Xeno. In the end game I was chasing a injured Michaela towards the exit gate, I was hoping she would be at least my one kill for the match, so I down her with my tail and here came a Kate who running the "totally fair" combo of buckle up and FtP. Kate picked up the Michaela during my cooldown and both was fully protected thanks to the 10s endurance and got a free escape. After that you know what I got in return? Kate teabagged me as she escaped and type "ez, you suck" So this survivor felt so proud bc they used two perks that completely allowed them to freely escape with nothing I could do about it....
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@Peanits said:
You have no obligation to, but I'm gonna be blunt, this is horrible logic to follow. Flip what you've just said to a Survivor's POV and you've just created an endless loop. All it does is perpetuate toxicity. Running into a bad group doesn't absolve you of any wrongdoing when you decide to take it out on the next group. You've just decided to become part of the problem at that point.
Play the way you like so long as you're not breaking any rules, but you can't take the moral high ground and preach against toxicity if you stoop to their level. This goes for Survivors as well.
Some people can recognize that there's a person on the other side of the screen and like to play in a way that's fun for everyone. There's nothing wrong with that. If you're in it to win and you'd rather use strategies that help you win, that's fine too. But going out of your way to make things worse for people is never going to be justifiable.
Thought I do think you right, I can't help to think devs could do more to help with the amount of toxicity in their game. I know you can bc I seen other games buckle down on things like unsportsmanlike conduct and toxicity. Once before I brought up Final fantasy 14 and it's pvp in another thread about toxic behavior. In there pvp and even normal pve content you can report and get someone banned for toxic behavior like tea bagging or unsportsmanlike like speech. I suggest anyone to look up pvp ban rules for ff14 and see they will ban you for emoting (like teabagging) over players bodies, spamming chat and ect. I know y'all won't or believe you can't but I still stand on the hill that the devs are just as equally responsible for toxic behavior in their game just as much as it's on the individual players. Once again I do agree with what you said in your reply.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544364#Comment_3544364
I struggle against survivors with Xeno as well. Mostly 4 escapes. I have better results with Doctor.
I'm honestly glad I'm not alone in this camp. Ppl make it sound that winning with xeno is super easy and ect. Xeno is the first killer to ever give me the hardest time and the first killer where my win rate is really low.
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@SleepyLunatic said:
Not saying the pip system isnt bad or anything but imagine caring that much about pipping/depipping
I actually do care about pipping and depipping. That 1mil bp each month helps me out greatly with getting prestigious and add-ons for my killers.
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@mecca said:
I believe it is the opposite there chief. Killers wants survivors as playthings. You don't want balance, you want to 4K every match.
That argument does absolutely nothing. In fact I can say the same thing for survivors. All survivors want is a weak killer they can loop for 5 gens and then tea bag at the exit gate before saying "gg ez baby killer." Prove me wrong? I'll wait. If all you think killers want is to 4k every match guess what then ppl would just play nurse or blight. DBD would only be two killers and that is it.
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Right now Xeno, mainly bc how bad Im at her. I was so looking forward to maining my girl Xeno but now not so much. Im a huge Alien fan and wanted to be good at Xeno so badly. After weeks of playing Xeno I was tired of losing almost every single match and the nerf she got has made it even harder to play for me. I mean I cant even get pips with this killer. Thank BHVR for making the one killer, I been waiting for so long for, the one I have to competely give up on and just go back to my legion... *cries a little* v.v
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@Cypherius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544145#Comment_3544145
Fair enough. I checked the Otz demonstration and you are right. What a mess of a hit box. The hit boxes in the top move faster which gave me my wrong impression about the attack moving downwards.
With the right timing you can hit people through the gap bellow a dropped pallet lol. Not a very useful tech tough.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544224#Comment_3544224
As i said above i got the hit box wrong. Fair enough. That makes the tentacle more forgiving to use as you argued.
RPD is one one of the few maps i would say is good for Nemesis. The collisions in the mape are good for his whip and the tight corridors help his zombies. In this Map i would say he performs at a B tier level. But he is pretty lackluster in most maps, especially the larger ones.
Not going to say the Xeno is better in every regard. But a few scenarios where the tentacle is better than the tail don't really close the gap between them all that much. My other comparisons between the two killers still stand.
The tail is still more reliable and time efficient in most scenarios and Xeno still has better map pressure, tracking, unpredictability and a much better early game. Needing to hit your M2 3 times is a big weakness for Nemmy as well.
Sounds like you are pretty good with Nemy and more skilled with him than with Xeno. That's fine but i am discussing their overall strength, rather than difficulty. If difficulty mattered for tier lists Nurse would not be S tier.
Honestly we not disagreeing on much here other than where nemmy is on a tier list. We both agree that Xeno isn't C tier. Personality difficulty is a huge part when ranking a killer since that debates how much time someone has to spend to get good at the killer and the results they will get. Nurse is hard to play but I still say she an S tier killer bc when you do get good at her its well worth the time you put in, meanwhile, I feel Xeno isn't worth the time bc the result is close to a high b to a. As I said in a lot of my posts Xeno is the first killer I have ever played that has given me the hardest time. Ever since she came out I have lost most of my matches, I think my win rate on her is around 20% at best. In the hours I put in also I feel I haven't gotten any better at her and I'm starting even regret buying her and even putting so many hours into her. Xeno is the first killer also that I had to firm myself and ask for advice on this forum and ask Otzs(who still hasn't replied but he is a busy man). When I compared Nemmy and Xeno I learned Nemmy so much faster and got good at him in little of a week while Xeno has taken a much longer time.
I know you said she is stronger bc of her map pressure thanks to her map travel but here's my thing, what good is the pressure I get from traveling the map fast when I can't get hits and downs with her? All the fast traveling equals nothing if her tail is so hard to land. I honestly would trade some of her map travel for an easier tail attack to use. At the end of the day, it's just my personality exp. I'm just really upset bc I WANTED to main her so bad bc I'm a huge Alien fan but right now I dont think I even can since I'm losing so much that I can't even pip up and rank up in grades for my BP every month....
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I dont see why depipping is even a thing anymore. Its not like your rank means anything other than how much you BP you get on the 13th of every month. I wish depipping would just go away so I dont have to worry about it anymore.
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@Cypherius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543848#Comment_3543848
Quite a few users have claimed that Xeno's hit box is currently bugged and is hitting objects incorrectly instead of the survivor. Maybe that's why you are having difficulties with her. Maybe give her another try after this is changed.
"Also, I like you left out the biggest plus to nemmy's power and that is breaking pallets very quickly when you are in tier two"
Yeah i did forget to mention the pallet break. Fair point. Breaking pallets with the tentacle is a nice bonus but you won't have it at the beginning. That's actually a big deal against good survivors that know how to delay you from tiering up.
Xeno's ability to use her M2 on demand and not being tied to a infection mechanic for damage makes her a lot more dangerous near pallets. She can hit her tail reliably on most pallets. Tiles/Pallets that would normally be a 50/50 are pretty much a guaranteed down for a good Xeno. You have time to use the tail as reaction to a survivor dropping or vaulting.
On these same situations Nemesis has to predict and outplay the survivors tough. I don't think they are on the same level.
'I'll also add the fact that at least with nemmy hitbox it doesn't just stop when you hit an object while with xeno tail if any part of the hitbox hits an object the attack just gets canceled"
That does happen with Nemesis. Its why crouching on most windows protects you from the tentacle. The hitbox starts above you and goes down. If it hits something on the environment (like the window that the survivor is crouching behind) it won't hurt/infect the survivor.
"Is Xeno a C tier killer? No, I even dont think that but I dont think she A tier either. I think she more a higher B now if anything. As for Nemmy I also put him in B tier tho I personally think he only slightly easier play and is better than Xeno"
I would place Xeno at the bottom of A personally but i see why you would place her in B ( Xeno in C tier is absurd though). She has the tools to keep up with coordinated Swfs. Nemesis can't keep up with that kind of efficiency and has part of his power tied to randomness. Top of C is where i would rank him.
"That does happen with Nemesis. Its why crouching on most windows protects you from the tentacle. The hitbox starts above you and goes down. If it hits something on the environment (like the window that the survivor is crouching behind) it won't hurt/infect the survivor."
As @Coffeecrashing said that is not how Nemmy Whip hitbox works. The whip hitbox is like a bunch of lines stacked on each other vertically and moving horizontally. If any of these lines hit an object that object only stops those hitboxes while the other lines continue to move horizontally. Meanwhile with Xeno's tail if any part of the tail hitbox hits an object it competely stops all the hitboxes and the game considers that a missed attack. For example, I have tried the up and down drag of xeno hitbox a couple of times and a lot of times the tail hitbox hits an object as I drag it down before it's the survivor and it cancels the attack altogether. The best place I have seen this was the truck outside GoJ where the survivor always crouched behind the bed of the truck and I threw my tail over the bed and dragged it down. Every single time I did that it game said I hit the bed first and canceled my attack leaving the survivor unharmed.
On top of that, I find dragging nemmy hitbox left or right a lot more forgiving and easier to do than xeno, making it more consistent around the counter of loops. Last night I played nemmy on RPD and was chasing a Dwight in the Libarty around the desks. As we were around the long wall of desk I used my whip as I was rounding the desk and was able to drag and hit the dwight at the pallet before he even got to drop it. Now if I did that with xeno I would most likely hit the desk and competely miss giving Dwight the chance to drop the pallet and get away unharmed.
I'll will also quote Coffeecrashing again with something they said in another thread about xeno getting "free hits" at pallets which I agree with and saw when I was playing her all these weeks:
"Many windows, pallets, and other animation locks aren't free hits, because many of those scenarios involve a sharp turn. Xeno's M2 camera lock (for turning on the X-axis) is so bad that it can't handle sharp turns, and the M2 tries so hard to collide with the environment, that many of the sharp angles won't be reliable."
This is what I was getting at about nemmy around those desks, I was able to hit Dwight around a sharp turn since his hitbox is easier to drag and his camera lock isn't as punishing as Xenos. It's fine you think Nemmy is weaker than Xeno but I personally think they are fair close to each other. I prefer Nemmy over Xeno and find Nemmy just slightly better since his whip is more reliable to me. This is why I say Nemmy is B-tier and is above Xeno only slightly.
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I get nervous before every single match tbh and I'm a killer main. I don't know why but I do.
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I'm bored but that's because I'm burnt out. As soon as I get rank 70 in the Rift, Im most likely going to take a break bc right now I cant stand this game right now.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543797#Comment_3543797
Ok, so what? Does this change anything about the point I made about what skill floor means and that is has nothing to do with performance or how well you do with him?
Billy is a great killer as he power fun gameplay on both sides, I also agree that he is terribly weak these days after his rework, and he got nerfed into the ground. But I would say playing against Billy is way more fun than going against bubba. And also yes he is very hard to play, probably the hardest killer in the game.
The question is do you play a killer because you want good results or because you like the gameplay? If you only care about the first ok go play Nurse and Spirit only. If not there are a lot more fun killers in the game, that might not be that strong but offer fun gameplay so your choice.
I care about both gameplay and results. The killer could be the funniest killer in the game to play but if Im lose every single match with them then Im not going to play them since losing isnt fun is it? Do you have fun losing every single time? For me its about time investment I have to put into a killer to get decent results and have fun also. I take the two poles on the killer tier list in which I dont like playing. Nurse I know I would get the best results out of her time investment but I dont find her fun to play so I dont. Billy I know would require a lot of time to learn him and get good but the results don't outweigh the time it would take to achieve that level of play so I dont play him, even if ppl say his fun. I try to find a balance between these two that why some of my fav killers in the game are Legion, Pinhead, Plague, Nemmy and Wesker. These killers didnt take that long to learn and I get pretty good results with them(winning more than 1/2 of my games). My exp with Xeno has led me to think she isn't worth the time since I have lost pretty much every single match with her and have invested more than two weeks of my daily game time with her. This why I think she has a higher skillfloor than most ppl think(at least to me she does) and isn't worth my time. That said I never said she a bad killer, she good killer(B tier imo).
At the end of the day tho I know we never going to agree on anything so I just say I agree to disagree with you and move on with my day and life. Have a bless day.
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@Cypherius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/391596/xeno-is-now-c-tier
Only big nerf Xeno got was to her ridiculously fast recovery when missing. Now survivors have some meaningful counter play. This is not even a big deal to good Xeno players.
Now lets compare Xeno and Nemy:
Xeno: A strong and fast M2 that can be predicted but not reliably reacted to. Its useful from the beginning and makes a lot of loops unsafe. You don't even need to ready it up. It takes only a few seconds to ""unlock"" the runner mode. Also due to how the hitbox works you can aim slightly up and angle id downwards to get some really dumb looking hits where the survivor is on the other side of an obstacle.
Flamethrowers are very easy to outplay and can be made trivial with the right addons. Xeno is smaller and more silent than Nemesis making mind games a lot easier. The tunnels grant map wide mobility and pressure and can track survivors far better than the Zombies can. Xeno actually has good addons.
Nemesis: Unreliable weak killer with no map pressure and a pitiful early game. His M2 is only good at tier 3 and good survivors wont let you tier up quickly (since his m2 is easy to counter). His tentacle is slow to ready up (and can be reacted to), slow to retract and slow to recover from and it requires 3 hits to actually down someone. The tentacle can be countered by CROUCHING in certain loops due to its clunky hit box.
Zombies require perks that generate sound notifications (they react to those) or really tight in door maps like RPD in order to be slightly useful against experienced survivors. Zombie's attacks can literally be baited and dodged in the unlikely event they get close to you or they can be used as a free speed boost for the survivors.
Only C tier killer here is Nemesis.
What you say may all be true but I can tell you my exp with both of these killers after their release. For Nemmy it took me maybe a week to get his whip down and after that week I was hitting survivors reliably with it. Even now I can easily hit ppl with my whip as nemmy and tier up just as fine as always. Now I tell you my exp with xeno, its been more than two weeks now since she was put in the game and I still have issues with reliable hitting ppl. I feel like I'm not even getting better at her tail at all and I've been playing her non-stop all this time. I have lost more matches these last few weeks on xeno than I have any other killer in the game and I'm not a beginner(I have over 1k hours purely on killer).
Also, I like you left out the biggest plus to nemmy's power and that is breaking pallets very quickly when you are in tier two. In a pallet loop even if you miss the survivor on the other side of a pallet at least you going to get rid of that pallet and easily continue chasing without losing that much ground. With xeno tho if you are in that same position you punish heavy for missing bc not only do you have the slowdown for missing you leaving the pallet up to be used again later.
I'll also add the fact that at least with nemmy hitbox it doesnt just stop when you hit an object while with xeno tail if any part of the hitbox hits an object the attack just gets canceled. I hit more survivors with nemmy over loops than Xeno bc of that and I find learning to drag his hitbox a lot easier. Also, that map travel Xeno means nothing if you not getting downs and hits with your tail. Yeah, I can get one end of the map to the next faster as Xeno but if it takes me a while to just down one person what good is that?
Is Xeno a C tier killer? No, I even dont think that but I dont think she A tier either. I think she more a higher B now if anything. As for Nemmy I also put him in B tier tho I personally think he only slightly easier play and is better than Xeno. Overall I said is my personal issue but I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks these things. As I said I dont think Xeno is a C-tier killer but she isn't A-tier either, not now. I also think she isn't worth the hours of learning either. I honestly wish I could have gotten all those hours back that I have put into Xeno and maybe I could have pipped up past Irl 4 last month if I didnt just play her.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543764#Comment_3543764
Having a low skill floor does not have anything to do with how viable it is, but how accessable it is... You won't get far with m1 only Billy if you only use the chainsaw for map traversal, but there are parts of his kit that are usable without training and such, and this is what skillfloor means...
Lol tbh, you using Billy as an example in a reply to me funny. I hate billy and wouldn't care if one day they just decide to delete that trash killer. Billy is the only killer in the whole game I will never play bc I think he sucks and I hate how hard his power is. Why play Billy when I have bubba who is easier to use and imo much better? Just like xeno why should I spend hours losing match after match and having the worst time possible playing the game when I just play nemmy who I find easier and get better results on?
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543623#Comment_3543623
What are you guys talking about? Xeno has a rather low skill floor? Use tunnels for mobility, play m1 and only use m2 when survivors are animation locked? That's the basics you can do, unlike Nurse you are not required to use the m2 attack? Same with Billy and Blight? You can use the ability for map traversal and just play m1? What do you even consider to be the skill floor if this is not the floor?
I have played Xeno like that and almost every time I have lost. I think you can't just use Xeno as a m1 killer and win. Those "free hits" at windows and pallets aren't always super easy. As Coffeecrashing said in another Thread:
"Many windows, pallets, and other animation locks aren't free hits, because many of those scenarios involves a sharp turn. Xeno's M2 camera lock (for turning on the X-axis) is so bad that it can't handle sharp turns, and the M2 tries so hard to collide with the environment, that many of the sharp angles won't be reliable." They worded this better than I could so I just quote them here.
Either way, I dont believe you can just use xeno as a m1 killer in most matches, maybe against baby survivors you can but alot of killer mains are not going to be going against baby survivors all the time. As I said I played her like the way you said and lost almost every single time. In fact, I won more matches playing blight like that than xeno. As for what I see as a good skill floor I say Legion or even nemmy. Legion power is simple to use and anyone can perform well out of the gate with legion. With Nemmy I think his whip is so much easier to learn than xeno tail.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543689#Comment_3543689
I think killer counterplay items are a failed concept, because BHVR wants the counterplay items to be strong and impactful, so that survivors think they are fun and rewarding... but they also don't want the killer to be compensated with a powerful M2, because they don't want the survivors to feel like they are punished if they aren't using the counterplay item.
The same thing happened with Singularity, where overclocked mode is very underwhelming. Tiles are often so close to each other, that Singularity can break a pallet in overclocked mode, and still not be able to reach the survivor before the survivor gets to the next tile. And Singularity's teleport has such a bad delay on it, that if the survivor is holding W, the survivor can very often reach the next tile before Singularity can get into melee range.
Low key I find Singularity borderline unplayable without Soma Family Photo. I feel that 5% haste helps a lot when catching up to survivors after a teleport but that's just how I feel.
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I like your idea tbh! But survivors will ofc hate bc ever since Hux came out they what emp level of tools to deal with killers' power. I think emps was a mistake bc now every survivor feels like they need some tool to give them an advantage against the killer or even have a way to remove the killer's power altogether.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543460#Comment_3543460
In all fairness to that, not everyone plays PTB. It's not available on console and not even all PC players mess with it. This isn't a case of "Killer players were fine BEFORE" because your just talking about a small percentage.
The thing is this doesn't feel like a nerf from 2.0 to 1.2. This feels like a nerf from 4.6 to 1.2. Alot of ppl are just saying to at least give that 2.0 a try.
On top of that some ppl, like myself, dont even bother with the ptb bc of the long queue times. Im not going to wait 30 mins to play one match as a killer. Most ppl who play ptb are either streamers who do killer with friends or ppl who really dont mind the long wait time. Also judging a killer strength in a ptb is kind iffy bc there is no mmr in matchmaking. Ppl who thought xeno is a high A in ptb most likely went against survivors way below their skill set.
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@jesterkind said:
Nemesis is, in my opinion, a great contrast to Xeno.
Both have difficult to hit and punishing M2 attacks that are that difficult to hit because of how strong they are; Tentacle Strike and the tail attack are both really strong chase abilities, provided you can hit them. Both are punishing on miss, because otherwise survivors would have no counters, due to them shutting down the typical survivor tools like pallets and windows.
But, to take the comparison further, let's take a look at those abilities and the wider powers they're attached to. Both have a barrier for entry, Crawler Mode for Xeno and Contamination for Nemesis, but I'd argue Crawler Mode is a lot more consistently available and doesn't, as people love saying, require three health states to down like Contamination does.
Further, both powers have a secondary element. Nemesis has his zombies, inconsistent and weak, but Xenomorph has stellar map traversal and a little stealth on top of that.
Conclusion: Xenomorph post-nerf is better than Nemesis, and since Nemesis is already a strong killer, that means Xenomorph is doing just fine.
Personally, I think Nemmy is better than xeno post nerf for a few reasons. One: I think hitting someone with your Tentacle is much easier than the tail since unlike the tail the tentacle hitbox doesnt just stop when you hit an object and you can be drag left or right which is much better than dragging the tail up and down imo. Two: in pallet loops nemmy is much stronger than Xeno when he is in tier two or three bc even if you miss someone at a down pallet you at least get a pallet break whereas xeno doesnt have that benefit. If you miss a tail attack at a down pallet you get nothing, at least with nemmy you get a pallet out of the way and force the survivor to move out of the loop. With Xeno you have to wait out the missed cooldown and have to break the pallet meaning the survivor going to make much more distance on an xeno than a nemmy.
To me the only real advantage xeno has over nemmy is the map travel since nemmy zombies are not always the best but what good is traveling the map fast when you can't land tail hits consistently? Is xeno bad? No I still think xeno is a high B or low A killer but I do think the skill floor for xeno is too high and nemmy overall is slightly better. Also, I agree with most who say that xeno tail right now is bugged bc I have had times where I should have hit a survivor only for the game to tell me no.
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@CLHL said:
As expected. If The Singularity was nerfed being absolutely terrible and barely played, obviously The Xenomorph was not going to be spared. We have a game where 90% of the cast is not viable or are forced to play with their best kit of addons to stand a chance.
I simply don't understand how they bring out again a killer who repeats the mistakes of the previous one, no one likes to lose control of their power. Back to Wesker by Daylight, I guess.
Wesker holds his crown as the best design killer of recent releases. At this point, I think the devs have peaked with him, everything is downhill from here it feels.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543445#Comment_3543445
There have been more than a few posts that said they wanted some buffs to the tail attack. Bigger hitboxes where the most common but since that didn't come, making the cooldown less punishing was the next best thing. So that's not quite true.
I wouldn't go as far to say Xeno is C-tier but it's obvious that with the fixed cooldown and the nerf on top of it, Xeno is a lot weaker than before. The worst part is, that there was no indication that 2 m/s was too much because we never saw it work properly. So there weren't any valid complaints about that either.
Nobody asks for the bugged cooldown to return but the devs were comfortable increasing the speed to 2 m/s. Why not test it first? Because 1.2 m/s feels pretty bad and with how easy it is to miss a tail attack, I see killers playing more M1 killer than using the actual power in the future. Which doesn't make much sense, when the anti-loop should be so oppressive, that survivors use turrets to give themselves an edge.
But when the tail attack is so punishing, that playing M1 killer is the better choice, then this becomes obsolete. Which in turn removes the slowdown, that these turrets provided.
I guess you can push it off as a skill issue but that would put Xeno in a position similar to Singularity. A killer that can be good, as long as you are incredibly good with them. And at that point, why not play Blight and get better results? It is not very encouraging to try and learn a new killer and get punished every step of the way, only to get mediocre results when you do become better.
The last part hits spot-on for me. Xeno imo is like Singularity all over again. A good killer with too high of a skillfloor. I never like killers with super high-skill floors(reason why I stay way from nurse and blight) and play and learn killers that are slightly easier to learn like Legion. That said even then at least Nurse and Blight get better results if you master them than either of the last two killers. Why put in 100s of hours in a killer to be on the same level as say a plague or Oni? It really upset me bc I really really wanted to main xeno but since day one of release it has been a complete uphill battle with so much losing(btw mmr sucks bc it felt like I have been paired with survivors of my skill set yet with this killer) with little to no results of getting better.
I'm not even that upset about the nerf if they made xeno tail a little more consistent or made its hitbox slightly larger. Plus on top of that as others have said her tail hitbox does feel bugged since I also felt I missed hits that should been hits the last few days. Even had a bill who just walked right through my tail attack and did not even get s stretch from it. For now, if I want to play a killer with a range attack I just play nemmy, his whip is more consistent, can be dragged left or right, and can even break pallets.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543588#Comment_3543588
Nemesis being able to drag the whip left/right, is far more valuable than Xeno being able to drag the tail up/down.
For starters, dragging Xeno’s tail doesn’t actually do anything useful, because it doesn’t “curve” the attack. Xeno could get the exact same hits by just aiming the tail properly in the first place, instead of purposely aiming incorrectly and dragging the tail.
The Nemesis whip being able to drag left/right is far more valuable, because Nemesis can move the hitbox left/right if the survivor tries to dodge it by move left/right. And yes, the whip prioritizing survivors over the environment is a huge benefit, that Xeno’s tail doesn’t have. I don’t need to line up the perfect angle with the Nemesis whip, because the whip wants to hit survivors. But if I don’t line up the perfect angle with Xeno’s tail, then the attack fizzles out because the tail wants to collide with the environment.
Another huge benefit nemmy has over xeno is breaking pallets with his whip. If you at a pallet and miss the survivor at least you break the pallet(as long as you in tier 2) but with xeno you get nothing at pallets if you miss other than a slowdown for missing. That's why I didnt think the 2.0 m/s slowdown was that big if a deal since xeno cant break pallets with his attack like nemmy. At this point, I personally think nemmy is better than xeno. All xeno has over nemmy is map travel but who cares about that if your primary way to injury survivors is so inconsistent?
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543109#Comment_3543109
I have read your arguments before about oc, however my point is you play a double standar with your arguments, the same justification you gave for overcharge being too punishing to newer players could be applied to xeno, each time someone complains saying they fail tail attacks your reply is for them to get better, however you fail to use this same line of tought for things like overcharge, hell I agree with this xeno nerf, he needed it but honestly be consistent with critisims either everyone has to get good or none has to.
I think pulser just feels sorry for survivors and thinks they should have it easier than killers. It most likely has to do with the fact he finds killers way too easily and thinks everyone is at the same skill level as the killer as he is. I never once see him defend killer esp when it comes to new killers on this forum and honestly, every interaction I ever have with the dude he comes off as some elitest comp player who thinks ppl can get on his level play overnight. He wants to baby survivors while also punishing killers even if they are new to the game. As you said when it comes to killer stuff his line of thinking is "get better" but when it comes to a survivor it is "this thing needs to be changed so it doesnt punish new survivor players".
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543410#Comment_3543410
Many windows, pallets, and other animation locks aren't free hits, because many of those scenarios involves a sharp turn.
Xeno's M2 camera lock (for turning on the X-axis) is so bad that it can't handle sharp turns, and the M2 tries so hard to collide with the environment, that many of the sharp angles won't be reliable. And Xeno can't correct their M2 if the survivor micro dodges left or right. And even if Xeno does everything correct, ever since the latest patch, Xeno's M2 will sometimes just go directly through a survivor without hitting them.
This killer isn't worth playing anymore. It's so much easier hitting a survivor with a Nemesis whip, and I'd rather deal with the "Nemesis sometimes needs to hit 3 times" M2, than the "Xeno can literally lose their M2" M2.
I competely agree with you on this point also. I found learning and getting hits with nemmy whip so much easier then xeno's tail. At least with nemmy whip if it hits something it doesnt competely stop the hitbox and you can drag it a lot easier. So many times I try to get those so-called "free hits" on xeno only to miss bc I need to around a counter and by the time I do that the survivor it free from the lock and can move again.
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Personally, I hate map offering with a passion. I never use them myself bc I think it is cheap to just pick the map you want to go to know you going to have the upper hand on that map. Hate it when survivor use them and I hate it when killer uses them. I think every map offering should be deleted and have map selection be competely up to rng. I just love being sent to The Game, GoJ or, EoC all the time as killer....
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@Moonras2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543097#Comment_3543097
Too me though, that's kind of the same feeling I get as survivor when playing against killers with anti loop abilities. It feels like the only ability I have to fight back is taken away. Over the years pallets have been lessened, many loops made more unsafe, and then they started throwing in anti loop mechanics. So going against against something like Xeno, punishes you for looping, vaulting, or even just dropping the pallets. It also removes any ability to gain points from pallet stuns.
This is why I think the turrets and EMP's are needed. At least it makes it some what equal. It takes survivors off gens for a few seconds while also allowing the possibility of removing the anti looping mechanic for a few moments. Some what of a trade back and forth.
You say take survivors off gens for a few secs but emps and even turrets imo doesnt feel like it slows survivors down at all. Gens still feel just as fast as always and these "tools" dont really require all that much time to get/setup. EMPs esp since the painters make them automatic and require no input from suvivors to get them. This way I always wanted them to make it where the painters only go up to 70% and make survivors have to finish the last 30% to get the emp. That's why it actually offers a real slowdown. There is a reason why you dont see hardly any Huxs and emps is a huge part of that reason. As I said Turrets at least is not as bad as emps since they do require some time to set up even tho I feel that setup time honestly doesnt have that huge of an impact on gen speeds at all.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542507#Comment_3542507
You have a choice to either lose power OR lose distance.
If turrets dont lose you either one of those. Whats the point of turret?
- Survivors spend alot of time to setup turrets
- You lose distance
- You lose power
Pick 2 of them, what do you prefer?
Turrets have the same feeling as the emps for me personally. It's not the greatest feeling playing a killer whose power can be just easily removed by the survivors. To turrets' credit at least they require time unlike emps but the feeling is still there. In a lot of my matches as xeno I have seen a good bit of double turret placements and it felt like it didnt impact gen times at all so I really dont know how big of an impact the time investment to set up turrets has. I think it boils down tho that a lot of ppl dont really like the feeling of survivors having the power to remove their power so easily. At the end of the day, I personally dont mind turrets all that much but I can understand why ppl feel the way they do about them. My only fear is if survivors complain enough about the turrets they buff them and they end up being the same level as emps, if that happens I know I will never play xeno again bc emps is the sole reason I dont play Hux.
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541393#Comment_3541393
"In their minds, only their fun and enjoyment is all that matters, and ######### everyone else."
are u even suprise at this point tho?
"your fun isn't my job" is a staple in the dbd community
Nah I'm not surprised at all tbh. It's why I stop feeling bad for tunneling anymore. Whenever I try to play nice and spread out hooks it always leads to the same outcome, me not getting any kills, no pips or rank-ups, and maybe a few BP that I dont really need. This game just isn't rewarding enough to play "nice" A killer can play for hooks and get nothing but t-bags at the gates and gg ez in the end game.
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Though I'm not a fan of the nerf to Alien, I will say these threads are not helping matters any. Just seems like yet another us vs them post. I'm sorry but this sounds just like what survivors have been crying about over the killswitched flashlights. "Why did the devs killswitch flashlights so fast but left MS bugged and unkillswitched for months." Honestly, all the "us vs them" arguments are getting old. Yeah, I'm not a fan of the nerf to Alien or of MfT.
In fact, I hate MfT with a passion bc how many times I have to see the damn perk in my lobbies, and every time I lose I have to have to question myself "Did I lose bc of MfT or did I do something wrong." I just wish the game let me know MfT was even in play so I can avoid or drop chase against a dumb MfTer sooner. Lucky thought Dev has confirmed they looking into mft and we might even see a change to it in the next PtB. As for Alien, I did play him two times last night. Tho I would like to see how 2m/s movement speed would have felt, I didnt really mind the new slowdown. The only time I didnt like it was when dealing with turrets. Every time I killed a turret the survivor I wanted to chase was long gone so I just had to give up on that chase and head back into my tunnel. That honestly didnt feel great.
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@EternalRique said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536955#Comment_3536955
This is exactly it; they'll start crying about Adrenaline/Windows of Opportunity next just like when Dead Hard was nerfed and the crying switched to Lithe/Sprint Burst/Overcome.
Let's be honest here, both sides do that. I see survivors crying over meta-killer perks just as much as killers crying over survivor perks. Then they do Nerf killer perks Survivors just move on to the next killer perk that is most used. At the end of the day both sides are not that different lol and these us vs them arguments are really getting old at this point.
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@oreoslurpee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541184#Comment_3541184
maybe your just bad at him. hee only been out for like a week or 2. you can’t get automatically amazing gameplay results with a brand new killer, it takes time and effort. you have to put in the time & practice with him, and you will get good at him.
Never said otherwise but from my past experiences with the other killers I haven't had this much trouble especially when you have so many keep saying he easy to play. Either way I'll keep trying him but honestly losing every single match and not even popping up on rank hasn't been very fun and have really killed the game for me. This month was the first month in a long time I didn't even get to irl rank all because I only played Xeno these last two weeks. :-/
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@Mr_pig2099 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541468#Comment_3541468
rework = make killer be able to kill better
so basically that means that theyre gonna buff the killer right?
If you read my previous post before that one I said the rework could go either way. They could buff her to much and we have another sakoto situation or they could completely gut her and we have a completely useless killer. Either of these situations is wrost then what we have now imo. My whole point is till we actually see what the rework is it's best not to say things like "it can't happen worse right?" These types of comments never age well in my experience and things can always be worse. Personally I hope they rework so she fun for both sides but I'm keeping my expectations really low right now.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541356#Comment_3541356
I see where you're coming from but we are talking about a rework. Not a simple nerf or buff. So they won't just tweak a few numbers. If they wanted to do that, then that wouldn't take as long.
Sakaro was more or less a rework also and you see what has happened to her. She a complete noob stomper. Ever since she was reworked I still haven't lost one match as her since she really really easy to get kills with now. I'm not even that great of a killer main. I struggle getting consistent wins all the other killers in the game. My point is that anything is possible so I wouldn't say things can't get worst when they easy can get wrost.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541372#Comment_3541372
so ######### them then?
It is really sad ppl sometimes have that mindset. They rather see the killer they hate to get deleted or competely gutted rather than fixed. In their minds, only their fun and enjoyment is all that matters, and ######### everyone else.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541335#Comment_3541335
Whatever they do, it can hardly be any worse than what we have now.
To be competely honest it can be worse in a few ways. They could do nothing for her chase and just nerf her 3 gen stuff meaning she could be so weak that Trapper would be stronger than her or they could pull Sakoro and somehow make her too strong and easy to play as. I bet ppl said the same thing about the sakoro rework.
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I only hope the rework makes her fun to play and fairly strong in chase rather than just nerfing her 3 gen but leaving her chase the same or even worse...
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@dwight444 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541291#Comment_3541291
1
I'll take him over Xeno any day
@antag0nisticw0mble said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541297#Comment_3541297
I don't mind wesker. But the devs clearly didn't fix the I'm running from this pallet but apparently I'm not crap.
Good for y'all. My comment is more towards those who hate Wesker but also wonder why ppl don't play a weaker killer or a killer is really hard to use. This forum will boil back down to "I hate Wesker" and "Where the new killer, I'm tired of Wesker" threads.
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@antag0nisticw0mble said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541291#Comment_3541291
5 pulling the usual "fixed" oh look you're on my side of the pallet/window on my shoulder crap.
Happy to see 5, hope it is much much more now Xeno has been nerfed lol. I can't wait for the "Where is xeno?" threads and "I'm sick of Wesker" threads
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The real question is how many wesker have you encountered?
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@Kius said:
There you go everyone asking for a nerf.
Now you can run your usual MFT and pre drop simulator.. if the xeno misses it gets massively punished and you can t bag at the end and spam vaults too and tell the killer how awful they were for trying to secure 1 kill on endgame chat..
And forums can now go back to complaining about the only killers they see are Weskers.
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Well, they did nerf him back down to PTB speed for missing a tail attack. Personality I dont know how this will affect him overall. I just hope he starts being more unfun to play as bc I was already on the line of giving up on Xeno. I have made a few posts and a thread stating how hard I found Xeno even with the shorter tail miss attack and how bad I was at Xeno and with this nerf the killer may just be competely unusable for him but I see it tonight. Xeno was the first killer I HAD to make a playlist of my wrost game and have ppl review them :-/ So yeah...I don't know but I doubt he's dead just may not be played by ppl who find him really hard like myself.
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@dbdthegame said:
Pocket 10% gen regression PLUS aura read isn't enough? Eruption is one of the top 3 current gen regression perk along with Pain Res and Pop. Leave it alone.
I give you the 10% even tho I still think isn't really worth the time to kick the gen and for the cooldown the perk has after it triggers. As for the aura reading it's the most useless part of the perk. That info is competely unused bc by the time you pick up, carry, and hook the person you down that aura reading is gone. BBQ, Floods, Face of Darkness, and Nowhere to hide are all better info perks. Personally I rather them remove the aura reading from the perk and either remove the cooldown or keep the cooldown and bump the regression to 15%. Another way I would change it is to move its trigger from downs to hooks. That why you can use the aura reading and then you can keep it mostly the same.
Maybe it's just me but gen-kicking perks need to feel super rewarding to make me want to kick a gen otherwise I rather spend that time looking for survivors than holding space on a gen. The only gen-kicking perk that is worth it for me is pop. If I need info with my kick then I would use nowhere to hide with Pop. Those two perks imo do a much better job than an eruption.
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Personally, I would like it to go back to its state when it was released and if the incap is still too bad at its og numbers then just replace it with blocking the gen for 10s to 15s or something. I don't care what anyone says but eruption now is a useless perk. I never have gotten any value from its aura reading effect bc I never slug and even if I did I know where the survivors are anyway bc of their screams and where the gen I kicked was. As for 10% it's ok but it never saves gen for me. Usually, by the time I down a survivor, carry them to a hook, and then go to the gen that went boom, they already did that 10% back and plus some. I know you can run it with other gen-kicking perks but come on, I would get more value running pop and nowhere than running pop and eruption. Im sorry it's a useless perk.
Before someone says something no I didnt support the buff eruption, I also thought 25s of incap was way too much and it needed a nerf but I still think it didnt need some whole new effect that is competely useless, to begin with. I think I just dont like the fact I can't use the aura reading part of the perk at all. Why put an effect on a perk when it has no value and is competely useless?
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@SimpleTora said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536949#Comment_3536949
I would agree with you if it was something important, but it's not, it's a video game. Nothing anybody does or says to you in a video game will effect you in your day to day life unless you allow it to.
So a guy crouched repeatedly at me (most of the time it's to get the killers attention so they don't focus on their team) so what? I still get to sleep, eat, work, and play games at my leisure so who cares. It's not a reportable offence according to BHVR so why let it bother you just ignore it and play the game and go to the next.
Idk what happened to the world where adult men/women allow something like this mentally break them down into fits of rage/depression but it's really sad imo
I can only speak for myself but I tell you why it bothers me a lot. I play games to have fun and being taunted by someone who is clearly beating me at the match makes an already unfun match even more unfun. This is why I don't go to the exit gates anymore and push ppl out bc I know all they going to do is teabag me at the gates, try to blind me, or act like they going to give me a free hit for points and just run out. It's like rubbing salt in a cut, it just makes the sting feel worse. You said move on to the next and that's what I love to do, If I have a really bad game and clear I'm not going to get a single kill I usually open the gates myself and sit in the basement in hopes survivors get the hint Im done and want to move on. Do you know what most do? They do not just leave, they stand at the gates or come to the basement to taunt me. I would love to just move on to the next game but sometimes I can't, I have to be focused to stand there for 2 minutes and watch these clowns. At the end of the day it's not fun for someone on the receiving end and you can say "get thick skin" all you want but some people can't.
Btw there are games out there that do ban ppl from bming in games. In this post, I named one already and that is ff14. Its pvp mode will ban you if you are reported to be toxic which includes taunting someone who you just killed by emoting on their dead body or using the fireworks item on their dead body. So this behavior could be banned if the devs wanted to.
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Personally, I'm not even upset with the AMA since I got what I was expecting.. a lot of "maybe"s, "we hear you"s, and "we see"s. I feel this isn't new in gaming in general. I can't think of any big dev team or company that is fully open with their future plans or gives concrete answers to questions when it comes to gameplay-related and balance-related stuff. I think I have only seen small game studios and indie game devs be open to tell ppl that stuff.
One of the major reasons why it's like this is the fear of promising something and not delivering on it because something happens down the line. Just recently gaming saw one of the biggest broken promises happen. Look at what happened to Overwatch and its dev team. OW2 was promised to have this huge PVE mode with skill trees and a bunch of replayable but what we got instead was a mission basic campaign mode with three difficulties that going to be released in pieces over the course of seasons. That is just a recent example of a game dev failing to deliver on promises that were made. Their plenty of other examples of this happening throughout gaming. At the end of the day, I feel devs just want to play it safe and not commit to yes or no answers on things about the game bc if they do commit to it and fail to deliver they only get hate from ppl.
With all that said I do think it is really dumb to have an AMA and not answer any of the real questions ppl have. If you can't or don't want to give concrete answers about future plans for the game then just don't do an AMA and waste yours and our time. I imagine the time that was spent by Mandy and other members of dbd dev team to give the same answer to people's questions could have been spent better elsewhere. It is okay to not do an AMA if you know you can't give ppl the info they really want. Personally, I hope we don't have another AMA if its going to be the same as yesterday's one. That's just me tho.
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I know I already posted a reply but I wanted to say something else. I can't believe this dude is actually bragging about being iridescent 1. Like rank actually means anything in this game anymore lol. Almost every one can get to iridescent 1 if they put enough time in. I get iridescent 1 alot and I'm a mid level killer at best, I'm especially not the best lol.
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I know it's a mmo but I like how ff14 newest pvp handles toxic behavior. For example they made it a bannable offenses for spamming "nice job" in team chat or emoting/settings off fireworks on opposites dead bodies (aka ff14 version of teabagging). Maybe it's just a Japanese culture thing but they don't take toxicity lightly in game and I for one glad for it. I wish more pvp games took measures to punish toxic behavior and try to discourage it.
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@Biscuits said:
If Otz makes a video on a perk it gets nerfed. Is anyone surprised.
Question did you watch Otz video? Do you even know what he wanted change on MfT? If you did you would know that his suggestions on changes for MfT left the 3% the same. He just wanted haste stacking to be removed and the endurance part of the perk be replaced with some other effect. Also let killer know when they hit a survivor who has MfT that MfT is on that survivor so they can make decisions on how to handle that survivor going forward. That it's, that all he asked for.