Atom7k
Atom7k
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@KatsuhxP said:
Simply because the rest doesn't even have remotely a chance to win anymore when you leave:
Like I said, in Overwatch you'd just get a new mate and everything is chill. It's just not the same in dbd, your team's basically dead if someone leaves.
If you don't feel like this game is fun then don't queue up, it's as simple as that. I don't understand what your thoughs are that you queue in a game that is no fun just to leave and ruin it for at least 3 people.
The system you are talking about is simply impossible to implement or pretty easy to abuse. I can guarantee you that there will be killers knowing exactly how far they can go to let you bleed just because they want it. Implementing this system won't change anything and it's impossible to set borders everyone will agree to.
Bleeding people out on the floor is more or less a gray thing to do, it's not following the normal gameplay, but it's not holding hostage ether because there's a timer running down and they can't confirm it's because the killer wanted to annoy you. Maybe it's a squad with 4 boilovers and flipflop, second floor in eyrie of crow main-building making it impossible to hook. What do you do as killer? Letting them recover just because it's impossible to hook? Nope, i just bleed them out like they wanted it themself.
And what do you want to do about tunneling?
Making the survivor impossible to down until you hook someone else? well they will bodyblock or do gens.
You can down but not hook them? Well I'll bleed them out.
You can down but not hook or bleed them out? Well your mates will let you be on the ground and just do gens because it's no problem that you're on the ground as long as no one else gets hooked.
Give base-ds? now we have survivors that use it offensive like they already do or get slugged.
It's just not a problem you can fix as easy as that. Dcs should stay like they are for the sake of yourself and your mates, no one wants people quitting and ruining your game.
So basically you say if you get queued up up in a match in Overwatch and as soon as it starts you get downed instantly by a cheater who tbags you and repeats the process over again you would just go like "yeah that game is still fun, I'm staying here".
There plenty of really good ideas on how to resolve the tunneling issue. There was a thread not so long ago about this topic and there were a lot of great ideas how to make tunneling giving the killer no reward anymore while keeping it fair for the killer too.
Just because my initial idea is not easy to implement or not completly thought through doesn't mean we should not think about something. That's basically what these threads are about.
Less frustration for players is going to help the game after all. So finding a way to let people out of miserable matches while not granting penalty free dc's for others is something I would like to see in dbd.
I accept that in my inital description I have not thought enough about people abusing the system. Clearly that should be prevented
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@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662607#Comment_3662607
So long as everyone sticks to individualism.
To reiterate what I have said several times, this game may feel like a survival game for survivors, but the core of the game system is tower defense for the killer, and the survivor would rather limit the killer. Sirvivors an attacker.
Each Survivor is weak, and their performance is about 1/2 that of the Killer. Even so, they can't be defeated by killers because they use their superiority in numbers to attack from multiple angles. To subvert it, the killer hooks survivors, sometimes camps and tunnels, and sometimes patrols near Gen. Survivors counter it and regain advantage. That's where the bargaining and tactics comes into play.
If every are selfish and give up your numerical advantage and bungee jump from an advantageous position, you will naturally lose. Play style is free, but cooperation is a prerequisite. If you don't understand this, every will never be able to play this game well.
They way you describe it may work with swf but 4 individual survivors do not have to possibility to coordinate map wide. They can't communicate so they cannot "counter" anything. The killer is the surpreme force of the game and each match contains 2 very different power dynamics. The killer and the survivors. While it's true that survivors have to play as a team to win against the killer they do lack the ability to do that.
Aside from the hud info nobody know about the whereabout of the other survivors, their perks, or what perks you spotted on the killer. So because of that playing as a team in solo-q is quite a lot harder.
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@Regalretort said:
Tell me you main survivor without telling me you main survivor
All of your complaints were survivor focused why no love for the killer side they have just as much ######### as survivors get but that would require the survivor side to drop they're bias and look at the game from a mechanical and logical angle which will never happen same goes for the killer mains the people who main one side are the bane of this game you people feel like your owed wins or something thus we have this competitive tryhard attitude in every single match the amount of times I've been slugged and left for a 4k recently has never been higher and the amount of toxic teabagging exit gate clicking survivors has reached its peak too the community is full of entitled toxic ######### stains on both sides complaining about the other how about you all just leave and maybe we can have fun matches again till then shits gonna stay this way so strap in for the ride you all created 😂
I agree that I left the kille out of this because usually new killers don't tunnel and new survivors don't tbag. It is true that the toxicity in dbd is at it's peak. I actually play more killer then surivors because I'm tired of getting a tunnel killer every match.
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@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661067#Comment_3661067
you need to read well. The tunneling thing is controversial, and at least Killer has a point, but DC is now getting hate from almost everyone. Please recognize that fact.
Anyway, we're talking about DC here. All I wanted to say is that while the tunneling act is buying so much hate, DC is buying even more hate, and this is proof that DC is not tolerated more than anything else. Please leave your hate towards tunnels in another topic.
Tunneling never was "controversial". It is normal in tournaments but has always been hated in normal dbd.
Comparing these two doesn't contribute anything to the original topic. Maybe you should leave your hate towards dc's somewhere else? See how that last sentence doesn't make this discussion any better?
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@KatsuhxP said:
Are we playing the same game? In which world is there only a dc every 10 games, I'd go so far to say it's completely the other way around.
And yes I really wonder why they dc.
First of all: Half of them dc because they lost mindgames or got outskilled, these people are generally not understandable.
Second: Even when I personally get tunneled, I don't feel like a dc is fixing any problem, not for me and not for my team. I just try to loop the killer as long as possible. Looping a tunneling killer for a while is often more problematic for himself than for yourself.
I did never dc a game once in my life and honestly don't ever see a reason to do that. It's just stupid to lose any points you got for absolutely nothing, it doesn't make a point, it doesn't hurt the killer (most of the times) and it does actually hurt your team.
And yes, you have to play those "boring" games or wait 26 minutes, the alternative would be to accept the rng in soloQ-Teammates and get as good as you can yourself OR search for a swf and play with them.
dbd in the end is a game where you won't come very far without investing time and I don't feel like it's a bad thing:
Tunneling a survivor never playing and tunneling one that plays quite a lot and is quite good at looping is something completely different. It can absolutely ruin you if you don't drop him quick enough or catch him alternatively.
Obviously our experience is quite the opposite extrem from another.
Why would anyone bother getting tunneled every match? Why not dc and put the game aside as it simply is no fun anymore. For the majority of the players getting tunneled is frustrating. They might not dc on the first game but the resentment builds up and at some point they don't care anymore.
After 10 games of getting tunneled they question why to play a game that is no fun and rather drags the mood down.
I don't get why you feel people should be forced to play a game that is miserable. Who would play a game like that. People can accept loosing a match. But they actually want to a chance to play the match and not being on the hook for the majority of the trial.
As I said many times now, the intention was not to make it possible for people to dc because of everything and not panlize them. I wanted an alternative to killing yourself on hook if you are stuck in a game so miserable it could be reported.
I don't think it is easy to implement a system to detect a miserable match but that would be something good. I don't know how many times a killer left all survivors on the ground to bleed out to "dominate" the survivors. Yes you can report something like that but it's not like bhvr is going to ban him for years because of this. I think to dc in that situation should not be panlized as you already lost the match but just didn't want to wait around another 2 minutes before you bleed out.
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@appleas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661189#Comment_3661189
Not going to lie, I find the japanese community to have a much more positive attitude towards the game than other communities. The majority for the most part don't complain and whine when they get tunneled and acknowledge that they could have played better and lasted longer in chase.
Some twitch streamers from said community even have rules against flashlight clicking and t bagging the Killer in their community games. When viewer players do any of those, they immediately call out said person and ban them if required.
While I don't swf as much with japanese players these days, playing with them is always a positive experience
I don't really get what yours and @xltechno point is here.
You are talking about a japanese tournament. Most of the players around the world don't participate in tournaments nor watch them and are not even interested in them.
If you haven't noticed tunneling is normal in every tournament. (At least every one I've seen). Because of 4 swf on coms with builds in synergie and predefined roles playing on clock system, it is widely accept to tunnel in the tournament match.
We are talking about the normal dbd experience which means people mostly in solo-q, a lot of them on console and no possibilty to coordinate them in the match.
The base scenarios cannot be compared and most of the people play a game to have fun. A killer tunneling a solo-q team at 5 gens ruins the fun for most survivors instantly. People can handle to loose a game. But they wan't a fair chance. People in solo-q rarely are able to prevent the tunneling from comming through thus the fair chance is gone and the fun ruined.
I may repeat myself here but the average people don't want to play in tournament conditions hence dislike tunneling.
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@Seraphor said:
You already get 2 free DCs a day. 60 seconds is nothing.
The second dc is already 5 minutes, third is 15. I never went beyond a third dc so I dont know what happens after that.
So you mean to tell me if I play 12 matches after working all day and get a killer who tunnels agressivly at 5 gens and then slugs around in these 3 out of 12 matches I either have to play these miserable boring games or have to wait around for 26 minutes?
Tunneling is so normal in dbd that I rarely ever see matches without it. So is slugging survivors forever.
I just went on hiatus for one week and played two matches today and what do I see? A whesker who tunnels me agressivly, a skull merchant who camps and tunnels and an Onryo who even carried survivors back to the hook so they could wiggle off, unhook the hooked player so he could then keep tunneling. It's so disgusting. Are you really wondering why people dc in games more often?
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I kind of blame streamers like Otz for this.
They normalised this so hard by selling it as "strategy".
Unfortunately yes it does work very well but it's not fun for either side. Tunneling is normal in competitive dbd but these players made a whole marketing strategy about selling tunneling as strategy to the average person. So now everyone does it.
And if they dont, they loose brutally because they then realise they can't win anymore withouth because they never belonged in their current mmr range in the first place.
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@xltechno said:
DC is more to blame than the tunneling. This fact has been proven here and now, and DC will not be tolerated by anyone.
To make it very short. No
Tunneling happens almost every game now. A dc maybe every 10 games.
If you want to defend that point show me your proofs
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659094#Comment_3659094
But that doesn't change the fact that if BHVR took a much harsher stance against DCing or killing yourself on hook, if there were longer DC penalties and if killing yourself on hook was a reportable offense or outright impossible to do, then these things would happen a lot less.
If survivors just afk or purposefully run into the killer and wait to get hooked, that's already bannable behavior.
I don't think it would happen a lot less. People who quit on everything will still find a way to quit. A penalty will not stop them. Most players don't really bother reporting people who run to the killer so that would happen more often. In the end I don't think it would change much.
It would on the other hand increase resentment and frustration. Forcing people into matches would benefit bad killer playstyle as survivors are less likely to quit.
If you want to enforce people into matches you need to enforce a fair game system. The game already struggles with a decreasing playerbase so that would probably hurt more then do good because nobody likes to be forced to do something.
On the other hand being able to quit a game on conditions like being slugged for more then 2 minutes or being tunneled at 5 gens would take a lot of frustration from the game and be a small passive penalty for killers who play that way. A bot may not be the best replacement for an actual player but still better then nothing.
As long as there are no penalties for toxic killers/survivors leaving the game when certain conditions are met is something I wouldn't mind.
If you want to ask I actually do play killer more often but survivor experience has been pretty bad the past months. That's why this whole topic arised in my head.
I just want to point out that I am talking about edge scenarious where a game simply is miserable to play. The intention was not to grant every survivor free dc's because they picked the wrong item or something like that.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659041#Comment_3659041
I just don't understand why DBD is the only pvp game that allows players to give up and completely ruin the game for the other players and there's no punishment for it. Heck there's a sizeable portion of the playerbase that defends this behaviour which is just completely alien to me. Other pvp games rightly punish players who do this sorta thing and because of that it's not nearly as widespread and common.
I think that is because in other pvp games people have pretty equal characters. In Apex for example each character may have an unique ability but it ultimately comes down to recharging your shield, healing yourself and get weapons/extensions. DBD is different because you have two different power dynamics in one game. The survivors and the killer. Unlike other games the killer is a player himself. So here we have one sole person going up against 4 others. dbd always had struggle to balance things but what is putting the game to a real test is the pychological effect of the game. Some people simply don't care about the game/objective itself. They just wan't to ruin it for others/only think of themself. I relate this to people who traverse the map alone and leave their squad behind in other games.
So when they do not get their 4k, they get salty. If the survivor stuns them he needs to be tunneled. The flash light save was messed up, they need to tbag and then dc. I think there is a part of dbd players (survivors as much as killers) who take the game way to serious. Because of the nature of the killer being the surpreme power in the game people with these pschological traits or low selfesteem are drawn to play killer more naturally because it makes them feel important, powerfull and "good".
I will not make a whole case study here but the mindset of the players is what currently messes up a lot of matches.
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After reading all comments I am not so sure what to think about it. Some people sound like they want to defend it just so they can keep their bad playstile in terms of tunneling and griefing.
@Dream_Whisper mentiond earning a dc. That could be an option too.
Still I don't feel like People should be forced to play a match that is causing nothing but frustration. I am not talking about kiddies who dc on being downed first or mess up a flash light save yara yara. It is more about avoiding the 8th tunnel proxy camper in a row or the 6th legion player who just slugs and never hooks.
I don't need 3 free dc's every day but there are day's where you play 8 matches and 6 of them are just terrible. So you leave the game and are less likely to pick it up that day again. You build up resentment towards the game when you had 4 bully squads as killer or 5 tunnel camper/slugger as survivor.
That's the situations I was talking about. Some people I know already left dbd for good because they were tired of getting just 2 good matches.
I don't mind loosing in a good match. Neither do my friends. But you get tired pretty fast when the majoritry is not fun. A game is supposed to be fun. That's why the tunneling issue is hurting the game so much lately. It get's boring really fast.
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@supersonic853 said:
So you want to be able to leave the game for free 3 times because the games not going as you would have liked? Not a fan. The games supposed to be played out. Giving a out for free 3 times just increases the amount of dcs again. Because say you dc 3 times. Then the first dc after that is what a minute? Thats 4 dcs in a day.
I never said that I want to leave a game because it is not going the way I like it to. Your assumption is wrong.
The majority of players never quit a game but that leads to frustration on the survivor side because they get told to just endure however the killer behaves. The surivors cannot regulate the killers movements but the killer can regulate survivor movements. So if a killer want's to be toxic it should be possible to just leave the match behind.
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@Krazzik said:
Eww, no, we need MORE punishments for DCing and killing yourself on hook, not less. So many games are ruined by people doing these things.
I thought that way too some time ago but at the end it won't work. If you add penalties for killing yourself on hook then survivors will just start running into the killer on purpose. If they dc the team at least gets the bot.
As I explained, tunneling is a rising problem in the game and if people can just disconnect from a toxic killer or someone who just tunnels at 5 gens, this behaviour would be penalized on the passive way. To put it simple, you are a facecamping tunnel bubba? Have fun going after 4 bot survivors.
Survivors who quit because of everything they don't like will still keep quitting and facing the penalties. The majority of the players however rarely ever leave a game. For example I had to face a legion player who didn't want to hook a single survivor. He just wanted them to bleed out on the ground. It took us 24 minutes to get out of this game.
These are the situations most people would want to dc but are afraid to because the penalty system will set them on timeout.
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@ExcelSword said:
I know not many people play hag, but a big reason why these add-ons are so good is because of a technique called camera swing.
When a survivor activates a trap, the game forces a survivor's camera to face the phantasm. This is a strong effect because if a survivor is holding W, it means that if you position your traps properly in loops, the camera swing forces survivors to run towards the phantasm, which can screw up their optimised pathing around a loop to get a hit 99% of the time.
You could even force survivors to run somewhere they had no intention of running, for example placing a phantasm in a doorway would make the camera swing pull them into the doorway, and now they have to continue through that path because trying to run back the way the wanted means they will run back into you.
However there is one crucial detail. This camera swing effect is extremely weak or nonexistent if the survivor runs dead center in in the direction of the trap since they are already facing the phantasm anyway. So you need to position them in a way that survivors will trigger the trap at the furthest possible range in a loop when they are facing as close to 90 degrees from the trap itself to get maximum camera swing. This is why the add-ons are so good, as they increase the camera swing effect and make it easier to position them.
Now that they provide the opposite effect, this strategy is completely gone, especially since they are reducing the base range as well of traps. The only benefit this addon will provide now is that they make it easier to punish survivors who are trying to trigger your traps on purpose, since they will be close enough you can just walk and hit them. But survivors can already wipe them clear anyway.
I am just really sad to see one of my favourite playstyles removed from a niche killer when the devs claim this is a buff, because that tells me that the devs don't even know that this is a playstyle that exists. Oh well, at least the PTB will have a new killer to go alongside this change.
Maybe it is because I play hag differently but reducing the radius is a buff to me. No longer will survivors trigger traps while running somewhere else. If they just flick their camera they are out of my attack range before I get there with a tp.
If the radius is smaller I know that I just have to tp + m1 and get a hit.
I tend to place traps in corners next to a door so survivors don't see them. In narrow places so they can't go around. In a bush where I think they will run through frequently. If they see my trap they can just run a circle and when their hitbox tips the trap range it triggers but they will still be able to get away. That's not possible with a smaller radius
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I guess my experience is a little different then most people here lol.
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@woundcowboy said:
I’m not sure if they were trolling or just don’t know in regards to the pig “buffs.” She is, objectively, right now a better character than she will be after the patch. The slowdown/threat of a headpop is the best thing pig has, and it’s being severely nerfed
Meanwhile they are buffing the worst part of her kit, which is still counterable by predropping and running away from the loop. Huge L for Pig.
Blight and now Hilbilly are op. Of course they nerf pig
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@DefJukies said:
I don't know what else to say other than that BHVR achieved their stated objective.
Hillbilly is now retrofitted for all of the maps in the game now.
He can achieve curves with the proper distance and timing on nearly any tile in the game. He is where he was on release: the most dynamic traditional 115% movement killer in the game in the right hands. And he is a great intro for other paid killers who can achieve far more consistent results than he can.
Overdrive helps players learn how to juggle a killer's power ala Oni, Dredge, Singularity, etc. in a limited time phase. Instadowns reward the Killer for learning how to use M2 power efficiently and effectively rather than simply "m1".
Billy can still be countered by the tools given by developers in the game. Windows, tiles, and pallets are still the best defense. The concept of "greeding" tiles for fun is player choice rather than design. Until BHVR changes their map design philosophy, I think Billy is PERFECT where he is with the 1 second turn rate. Maps such as badham, eyrie, crotus penn, azarov's still exist with plentiful designed resources.
If BHVR wants to reduce the turnrate window back to .75 seconds, I'll still play the killer, along with my other favorite killers. I don't have any branding, attachment, or misguided notion that my effort put into a video game gives me some status as a stakeholder in DBD.
If BHVR wants to find a middle ground for the turnrate window, .88 seconds is a good spot to start. There are concerns regarding "his identity" on the roster with a buff from .75, but reality is that BHVR dictates what that identity is.
My point still stands. BHVR has to balance between maps and killer design. And rather than do a cohesive rework of maps, they've chosen to stand by the map design and instead tailor killer powers to the maps.
Disagree
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@North85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649622#Comment_3649622
Yes, because no Billy ever misses their chainsaws. Ever.
So what? The cooldown is forgiving enough to follow up. Because of the increased turnrate duration he can hit you in positions which wouldn't have been possible before. He can even correct his movement now if he the wrong way first
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The new official statistics are out.
Skull merchant is a the top with over 70 %. Some of this is due to survivors giving up thats definetly a thing. Still I would like to know if your thoughts have changed because of this?
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@I_Tunnel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650422#Comment_3650422
And survivors need to accept that they won't escape every match. Yet here we are; Shaming Killers who have the audacity to win in a non-SurvivorApproved(tm) way, and telling them to 'stop being toxic'.
It's almost like Survivors live on 'rules for thee, but not for me'.
It is really stunning how you try to tip toe dance around the topic because you basically have no arguments. You're pretty petulant about this.
You completly ignored all of my points and just try to manifest your pov by shifting focus from your pointless discussion to something all players agree on. It's called manipulation and it's a pretty pathetic attempt when you cannot defend your point with arguments.
You try to make it look like it's the most normal thing in the world but it hasn't been for years. The tunneling issue became just much worse recently. I don't know for how long you have been playing dbd but your "arguments" kind of make it questionable about how experienced you are with how dbd aged.
It's not a "strategy" which gets rarely picked by experienced people to make an unique move to catch the survivor off guard or unexpected. It's not hard to do or anything unique. It is a cheap way to secure a game because aside from competitive teams there is nothing the common survivors can do to save the match if someone tunnels from the start.
I already told you that the majority of survivors do not play toxic. There are bully squads and toxic players. Yes thats true. However their behaviour is not approved as well.
Everyone who plays this game is aware of the chance of loosing it. Aside from people who tunnel from the start of the game of course.
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@I_Tunnel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649928#Comment_3649928
Once again; Otz uses tunneling, slugging, and even camping at times, and he's a great DBD player.
Would you tell him he 'CaN't WiN wItHoUt TuNnElInG' and that he lacks skill?
No, you would not. Because all you're trying to do is shame Killers and attempt to dictate how they play because you're lazy & want easy wins.
I really had to laugh about this one. Is Otz DBD Jesus now? Is what he says the holy rule? Of course I would tell him the same. Why should I hesitate? He may have a lot's of hours in dbd and a good understanding of the game mechanics but that doesn't mean much. He's still pretty bad in solo-q and even hens said he can't play around Otz because his movement is weird. He may be good with some killers but again, being good at a game doesn't grant you the status of the Dungeon Master or something. There are a lots of players in dbd with tens of thousands of hours.
I stand by what I said. It is absolutely possible to win matches without tunneling at 5 gens unprovoked. Because that is what the initial conversation was about. It is about making the right decisions. There are plenty of people on twitch and youtube who can do so. So yes when tunneling is your only resort to win a match you lack skill and/or messed up big in the match. Otz is only human so it's natural for him to make bad decisions in matches too.
Tunneling however is not going to fix that. Further you are not very constructive or contributing much to the discussion at this point. I could accuse you of wanting easy kills because you don't have enough skill as killer but that wouldn't lead us anywhere in a discussion would it?
I play both sides equally and besides competitive dbd (which is completly different and has nothing to do with our topic here) tunneling from the start is and will always be embarassing.
The only exception I'd make is when you run into the survivor you hooked last by coincidence. It's totally fine to hook that survivor again because obviously he wasn't paying attention enough and it is not your job to excuse mistakes done by survivors.
It's a game after all. You have to accept the fact that you will not win every match. If you can't bare the thought of loosing a match and therefor tunnel from the start to make it "easy" for you then you maybe should leave the game for a while to gain some mental distance from it.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649641#Comment_3649641
The difference is intent. Sweating with the goal to win is not the same as playing the game with the intention to make the game as miserable as possible for your opponents.
Also, killers don’t know what type of survivors they’re going to go up against at the start of the match. If they go easy against good survivors, gens will fly and they will lose with the survivors butt dancing at the gate.
Also, if a group of survivors can’t do five gens against a tunneling killer, then they shouldn’t be at that MMR and should lose. The game provides plenty of options to waste a killers time and they they don’t want to come into a match prepared to counter a common killer tactic, then they shouldn’t expect to win. Mastering how to loop a killer, mind game and work with teammates should be expected of Survivors, but most will come here and complain instead.
As for normalizing tunneling, too late. It’s already a part of the game.
Yes it is true that the intent is different but ultimately a tunnel killer does make a game miserable for everyone too. Just not to the extreme a 4 slug killer does.
Doing 5 gens while one survivor is chased doesn't even happen in competitive dbd. That's just not realistic. Especially not in solo-q.
It is absolutely mandatory for survivors to learn how to survive the trial. It is respectivly the main objective. If you deny to learn these you could also argue why should the killer learn his killer power? Why not m1 tunneling?
Well simply because the game was never intended to be that way.
To even out the field we could suggest an anti-tunneling system but this system would also need to show the killer if he goes up against swf and would need to reward the killer for not tunneling.
But right now people seem to forget pretty fast that a game should be fun. At least sweaty killers/survivors seem to. Winning by tunneling just doesn't feel earned to me so the boost from winning a good match is much bigger while the frustration on the survivor side is much lower for loosing the match. Some survivors forget that the killer is a player too and are toxic towards him from the start. Yes thats a thing too. But ultimately the survivors cannot control the movement of the killer, the killer controls the movement of the survivors.
Denying to learn the game mechanics and therefor justifying tunneling just doesn's sound valid to me.
Also as explained tunneling a survivor at 5 gens will lead to the collapse of the match. If you are not as good at looping because as you intended you never learned it then you will die quick and the 3 remaining survivors will have no chance to escape anymore.
It is just an easy way to play the game, cheap I'd say but that doesn't mean you're good at it.
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@I_Tunnel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649742#Comment_3649742
And here we see more Killer shaming.
If they win; They're 'sweaty' for not considering their opponents fun over trying to win! How dare Killers try to win! Don't they know Survivors fun is the most important thing in a Killer's life?!
Oh, and it never works in reverse; There's never such a thing as 'Sweaty' Survivors. If Survivors roflestomp Killers; Killers just need to 'git gud' and 'learn 2 play'.
Double standard 🤮
Yes there are lmao.
Just admit if you can't win without tunneling. Tunneling is a lack of skill. A desperate try to bring back a match you lost because you made bad decisions.
There are tons of sweaty survivors. There bully squads, the flashlight tryhard triads. And so on.
We call them out too. You're trying to defend something bad on two different posts with no valid argurments.
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@I_Tunnel said:
Apparently now 'going back to the hook' is 'scummy'.
You heard it here, Killers; Going back to where you know 2 Survivors are is scummy, and we should all stop doing it! Survivors deserve to freely heal directly under the hook! 😂
Trying to play down a fact by picking a part of the post that was not well written and making fun of it shifting focus to only that part. What a desperate try to invalidate an argument through manipulation while not contributing anything to the discussion.
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@Huge_Bush said:
Going back to the hook and tunneling someone out isn’t scummy. It may be considered sweaty, sure, but it’s not scummy or something that a player should be disparaged for.
Slugging four survivors and letting them all bleed out when you can hook them is what is scummy. The same for body blocking someone in a corner and not letting them go for the whole match.
I don't see any difference.
Both are unnecessary if you are not up against a competitive swf. Tunneling at 5 gens unprovoked is just a lack of skill. Lights out showed pretty clearly that these people are completly lost without their beloved pain res. So they camped hardcore but they failed to do so because antifacecamping was still kicking in and they couldn't see far enough to not facecamp. Even if they did so they lost their target in the dark.
If you can't win a match without tunneling from the start then you have no place in the mmr range youre currently at. Mastering a killers power should always be higher priority then winning a game at the cost of making it easy for you (tunneling)
We should not normalize tunneling. It is a huge problem in current dbd.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
I mean that's happens to all popular killers tho.
Billy was rare killer before and people who was playing him was not super competive players. I mean why would you play weak killer if you want to sweat? They were just enjoying him because they loved him.
But now, Billy got some very good buffs. And he is pretty strong killer. So even competive players are playing him now. And we all know, those people will do anything to win.
If they do that going up against solo q players they missed the point of gameing altogether on purpose. They can do their competitive stuff in their private tournaments. They really should leave the average player base alone with that
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I don't think that buff was necessary, he can now run around a weak loop altogether. It is a guaranteed down now to be at a short/weak loop.
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@I_Tunnel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647901#Comment_3647901
Tactic:
tac·tic
an action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end.
So yes; 'tunneling' someone out to achieve the 'specific end' of killing them/winning is a tactic.
No it's just a cheap move.
Unless you face a competitive swf, tunneling unprovoked at 5 gens is nothing carefully planned. It's simply a lack of skill. That's why so many fail to get anything done in lights out. They rely too much on perks, add-ons, camping and tunneling. Due to the nature of lights out you will loose your target in the dark if youre not carefull so tunneling might not even be possible if your skill is too low. Unfortunately some players bypass that completly by facecamping + tunneling or playing legion.
A real tactic would be remembering the whereabout of survivors, planning from which side to approach, mindgaming, selecting gens to defend in synergie with your power. Determing when to leave a chase. It's about effective time management + making good choices fast.
I have not seen any tunnel killer who mastered these. You can get your 4k without perks but you have to be really good with your killer. With perks and add-ons you don't need to be a true master at the killer power but still need skill. If you just tunnel you need nothing. Especially not skill as the match collapses on it's own if the choosen survivor was not very good himself and dies within 3 gen's left. Which happnes more often lately because I noticed more killers going for the survivor with the lowest amount of hours in the game.
I play both sides equally and I think I would get extremly bored if I would switch to easy mode. Where is the challenge? Where is the exitement? If I switch a game to the easiest playmode I can't brag about having an easy game, or high skill level, thats cringe. I mean braggin itself is cringe already but you get what I mean.
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@Crowman said:
Why should a system intended to work against facecamping work against other tactics?
Did you seriously call that a tactic? Like in strategy?
People really need to stop normalising camping and tunneling.
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@EvilSerje said:
Btw, what was the idea behind it? Some counterplay, or tactic, or whatever?
Now it looks boring from either side.
From survivor side, you just die, because you cannot anticipate killer approach in any way, you don't see him or hear him, he just appear beside you. So, no chasing, no hiding. What then?
From killer side, you don't need to do anything, you just walk along conveniently higligted red spots aka gens and kille anyone near.
And with all of that, some still camp and tunnel.
So, what was the idea? I'm trying to find, but obviously missing the point.
It may be boring because people make it boring.
Camping around with bubba or picking legion to bypass the challenge of lights out is pretty mindnumbing in my oppinion. You loose survivors very quick if you they break line of sight for a second.
The challenge for killers is to master their killer power and figure out where survivors might go. On the other hand survivors have to figure out where the killer might go and be more aware of their surroundings.
Lights out makes dbd finally feel like a horror game and I never had more fun before. Never was I so lost on the map and never this scared.
Sure some players really ruin this mode by running around without a clue where to go, not helping teammates or simply by camping and tunneling. This mode is not for them.
I win a lot of killer matches but escape a lot of trials as survivor as well. It actually feels more balanced then normal dbd as in normal dbd I get killed in most matches.
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Because ultimate weapon is currently used by every second killer I face I run "Calm Spirit". For being able to slip right past the killer if he tries to read my aura I use "distortion". It does not only hide your aura but also your scratch marks. I tend to pair this with an exhaustion perk like "lithe" and a distraction perk like "peble".
It's not full stealth but I feel like going with "lightweight" and "light-footed" would be too much as there is not enough value from these perks most of the times
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@BubbaxBilly said:
Easy Peezy. Just ran around as bubba. Downs felt pretty free. It got boring after a couple or games so I stopped playing it.
Have you tried making it more challenging for yourself by choosing a killer which is put at a disadvantage like huntress, nurse, blight or so?
Why would you set a game to easy mode and then complain that it's boring lol. Ramp up the difficulty then
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@Kriegssturm01 said:
i think the skull merchant is a bigger problem than the legion
I can't relate because I just won my first match against her ever and it was just because of lights out.
Why do you think she is a problem?
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@Crowman said:
No killers should be banned from a fun mode. Some killers are better suited for this mode than others. The best killers in this game (Nurse, Blight) are much more hindered due to the lack of vision range.
It's not about "being better suited" for a game mode or being hindered. The Killerpower from legion simply bypasses the mode. Playing against the legion never was fun but at this point you see at leas two people quitting each game as soon as it is revealed they play against legion. I don't blame them. Playing against Legion in lights out mode is less fun than an invisible basement bubba.
A lot of killers are hindered by this mode. That is because it basically is the purpose of it. So if a killer is not suited for a game mode because his power bypasses the rules of the mode it doesn't make sense to let him participate.
I like this game mode because it offers a real challenge. You can't rely on perks or add-ons, you have to master the killer power and navigate in the darkness. Pressing M2 and then running straight for the next hearbeat is just mindnumbing. It avoids the whole concept of lights out.
The counterplay for legion is spreading out. Well you can try to do that but you never know when to start running because you don't know when the killer gets closer. But knowing the distance to legion is crucial for decision making and counterplay.
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646790#Comment_3646790
That's quite a good statistic! Where did you get it from?
A website called nightlight https://nightlight.gg It s for unofficial statistics but you also can install custom packs which changes your perk symbols to your liking. It's a cool project
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646540#Comment_3646540
If you allow a survivor to crouch in chase, then that is your mistake alone. It's not hard figure out when to reverse the rotation. If you have a survivor run after the beam, then they can't avoid, if they are somewhat close to the drone. You leave them with absolutely 0 counterplay other than pre dropping the pallet immediately.
Since when do survivors get that speed boost? I have had the 'pleasure' to play against 2 Skull Merchants after her rework. The first time, I did not get the speed boost, which left me trapped in the loop. The second time she hard tunneled 1 survivor out of the game and I got the hatch after that without ever being in chase.
I just had it today. I was given the speed bost.
It was my first escape ever against skull merachant and I think its because we where playing lights out
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I'd recommend dredge though it gets a lot harder the higher your mmr is.
Oh yeah MMR is now a thing but it doesn't work well.
Tunneling a survivor out of the game unprovoked at 5 gens is currently at it's peak and it's killing the game. Many players I know already left the game for good because it is so boring.
Builds are stale, everyone uses this:
I recommend to try "lights out" game mode before it's gone. To put it simple, no perks, add-ons, terror radius or scratch marks. Maps are very dark and you cannot see further then ~16 meters. It's the most fun I had in months in dbd.
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@GeneralV said:
Remember that Nightlight isn't 100% reliable.
Because well...
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B7J5C39EDE2W/image.png
A bit high for a killer that many are considering to be the weakest in the game, isn't it?
Many players still DC or give up immediately against Skull Merchant, and that has an impact on her kill rates. That doesn't make her too strong or overpowered.
Nightlight is of course nothin official. It's just as precise as people are willing to share their statistics. But I think it is somewhat good intel.
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@Exxodus21 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645740#Comment_3645740
These are good ideas too. Would you keep regression perks that remove a percentage of progress the same or change them to remove a flat number of charges? Same question for survivor perks that work on percentage of overall gen charges.
I think they should refer to the base generator in % instead of the increased amount. They will be less effective that way the more generators are completed (in theory) but still have their part in the game. Maybe people would then try creative builds more then just having 4 slow down perks.
The speed at survivor repairs generators also refers to base gen in %. Otherwise the added repair time would just be ignored
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It may be not much but here is my part of the idea:
Prevent tunneling:
The entitus feast on your agony so basically you are in direct contact when you're hooked. When you get unhooked you carry the aura of the entitus with you. The entitus is a god and he would not allow one of his killers to be able to use the power granted to them against him. In conclusion this means first of all M2 attacks and all kinds of killer power do not work on you. This is granted until you touch a generator, rescue a survivor or get fully healed. Also it vanishes after 60 seconds. This includes running through all kinds of traps too. Condemed doesn't affect you. You cannot be stalked. The aura of the entitus is an superior force to killers so suvivors are "slipery", they cannot be grabed at pallets or windows. While carrying the aura of the entitus the first hit does no damage to you. (No deep wound either). The aura of the entitus blocks aura reading. (I know it sounds like advanced off the records). Further while hits are still possible, the collision box with the killer (and just the killer) is disabled. (This is good for both because nobody can body block)
However if someone carrying the aura of the entitus is hit by a protection hit (which should not be tried as there is no hitbox) the entitus is angered and pulls you right back on the hook you have been hanging the first time. (this prevents survivors from abusing the system)
The system will be disabled and all entitus aura's deactivated when the last generator get's completed.
In the end the killer gains nothing from tunneling as M2 doesn't work. Hitting the survivor right of the hook does nothing. It is a huge waste of time to keep tunneling. It will not disable the possibility of tunneling completly as we all know that one bully survivor who just needs to end at the hook but it will take longer now and will be harder. In the end it's not enough of a reward to tunnel anymore. Survivors have no room to abuse the system because if they try they end up at the hook again.
Slow down Gen Rushing
For each generator finished the remaining generators needs 10 % longer to repair.
5 gens -> 90 seconds
4 gens -> 99 seconds
3 gens -> 108 seconds
2 gens -> 117 seconds
1 gen -> 126 seconds
While this may slow down the gens it also might be too much for 3 gens (even though killer have limited kicks now) and maybe it's too much in general. I have to admit I don't have more ideas right now for slow down.
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@Exxodus21 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645676#Comment_3645676
Yes, genrushing and tunneling are just each side playing efficiently. They're also boring for both sides and are the most complained about issues in the game.
Being afraid to change the base game because that's the way it's always been leads to stale game play, which is where we're at now. Same perks, same killers, same items, same map offerings, same tactics in almost every match.
Giving both survivors and killers a reason to use different builds and interact with each other more while getting the most playtime possible from each match would be a huge benefit to everyone.
Amen brother it really is stale.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
Can we please stop de-pipping on both roles, seriously.
It is not necessary and only contributes to the matches everyone claims to hate.
No SoloQ Survivor should have to worry about losing pips because of teammates that AFK, grief, troll, give up on 1st hook, give up before 1st hook if they don't like the Killer, ect.
No Killer should have to sweat through a 30 to 40 minute trial with increasing difficulty as they face harder squads.
The de-pip system is demoralizing and forces players to run builds that the opposition hates.
The sooner players can pip up without a de-pip, the sooner in the season they can feel free to experiment with builds that are fun *AND* do so without hurting the pips of their teammates!
Yes, many players will still run run their usual, but at least we open up the pool of players willing to run builds that are fun for them!
The max award per season is 2 Million BP. With all characters needing to be P3 to unlock all perks and no end in sight to adding new characters, the 2 million shouldn't be this hard to earn. It's literally not even enough to Prestige one character twice unless you buy items you really don't want *and* get lucky.
I truly think this would help a lot for veterans and new players alike!
It would also help Killer diversity as Killers will presumably have more BP to invest in a Killer that may not be their main.
I could go on and on about the benefits to the playerbase...
Remember BHVR, if you see it becomes a problem for whatever reason, you can always revert it.
Let's do away with depipping.
Thank you sincerely if you took the time to read this.
#NoMoreDePip
I mean yes if you run streaks like "reach iri rank 1 with survivors but each surivor which gets killed is removed from the pool" then this can be annoying especially in solo-q. Aside from that I never thought about it.
To be completly honest bloodpoints don't mean anything to me anymore. I think all players reach that point sooner or later. You've unlocked all perks you need and got enough to boost level for a new toolbox or medkit.
I actually stopped looking at my rank since they decided to replace it with this icon box. Ranking up does not give you any benefit nor does it affect matchmaking in any ways. That's why I stopped caring about it alltogether.
If you run the bloodweb manually you can "trick" the entitus to eat away half the web each time and will save a lot of bloodpoints.
I guarantee you though the time will come where you have reached 2 million bloodpoints and don't know or bother how to spend them.
At this point it's not worth anything anymore and if I could trade 200 k bloodpoints for 2k shards I would do so.
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@manboobs1980 said:
Hey, my moon festival outfit completely disappeared from my inventory today. I had it mixed-and-matched and been playing it in Lights Out and it's gone. What do I do to get it back!
Contact support
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@tyantlmumagjiaonuha said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644806#Comment_3644806
Because there are no survivor clues. Even if you walk out to a distant gen after hooking it, you will not encounter a survivor if it is cloaked, and since there is no PoP or other delay perk, the benefit of walking out far in the first place is slim. The most efficient way to encounter a survivor is to proxy camp where you hit the survivor who will come to your rescue. In addition, if you are rescued, you can tunnel and cut down on the number of people, leading to a delay in Gen.This kind of play is affirmed more than usual in the new game mode, where both sides have no parks, no add-ons, and search and rescue by sight does not work.
The killer who does not camp or tunnel, which you prefer in this game mode, is probably a superhuman who understands where the survivor is even in the dark and finishes the chase in an instant instead of having a delay perk, giving the survivor no time to work on his gen, or a player who misjudges or is holding back.
I don't think you have to be superhuman to win a match as killer. I played dredge yesterday. DREDGE!!! He is like the poorest choice for lights out as he comes with directional audio. Still I was able to 4k without camping, tunneling, proxy camping, heck I think I kicked 4 gens the entire match.
Some killers may be worse for lights out some may be better but ultimately it stays a skill issue in my opinion. Sometimes you need luck as well as in every match of dbd but remember where you spotted survivors and where generators have been worked on is more important then ever in lights out.
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@MarKrTheDemigod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644758#Comment_3644758
"I used that word"? Did you forget to switch forum accounts or something? lol
Anyway, the idea of the mode is good but so far my experience (only have played as a survivor so far) is similar to what has been said - killers usually camp hooks. So, you either get hooked and wait for the others to come to help and watch them get downed too, then wait till the hook timer runs out and you die. Or you just ######### on the hook to get out of the game faster.
Also, it feels weird that the killers can see their objectives (gens and hooks) but survivors cannot see theirs. This seems to be especially beneficial for killers such as Billy or Oni, who can use their power to quickly move from a gen to a gen, emerge out of nowhere and down survivors on gens with a single hit.
Personally, I just go through the event Tome, try to get the challanges done as fast as possible and ignore other stuff.
Nah i only have this account, I dont know what he was refering to. But he got the idea. Wake up call was chosen as description because some people take this game way too serious. I mean like you said, it is a video game. But some people feel the sweaty need to win every single game at all cost. They probably don't have fun themself yet chose to play this game and by this ruining the experience for others as well.
If feel you. Camping and tunneling is the biggest problem this game currently has in my opinion
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@dwight444 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644264#Comment_3644264
but he is contributing to the objective - if it were not for him wasting so much of the killer's time then the others would not be able to work on gens uninterrupted. He is in chase and not going down meaning 1) we can do gens and 2) we don't even have to go and unhook him because he is looping effectively (this is in a perfect world, because most times in solo q the other 3 are NOT doing gens or 1 is just going around wanting to be the hero with his flashlight or he's doing nonsense like totems)
high pick rate doesn't make it op if you can't last til the endgame. You can put it into a new players hands and it could be meaningless. You also get 0 value til the end. If you make it to the end then your team is doing something right.
If you are focusing 1 survivor and he is looping you for 3, 4 or 5 gens, that is on you. Adrenaline did not help him escape, he did that all on his own, adrenaline did not get him there.
We have different opinions then. The things you describe are edge scenarios. Most of the time people stay injured because they rely on resilience and adrenalin.
I stick to adrenalin not beeing deserved if you did not actively work on the objective.
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@dwight444 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644015#Comment_3644015
what does high pick rate even mean here? everyone in the player base could pick it, doesn't mean you're going to see it activate on everyone
as usual, if you're spending 'too long' chasing the same survivor then that's poor decision making on your part and that type of player is exactly the type of player who deserves to be rewarded with this 1 perk during the end game after wasting so much of the killer's time w/ only 3 perks all game which may or may not contribute to his lengthy chase (meaning he could have brought deja vu and gotten 0 value).
also if you're getting hit with FOUR adrenalines, well, sorry to break it to you but you lost the game a long time ago...
I agree that chasing a survivor for 3 minutes or something is a poor decision. Still I don't think he should get a reward for not even activly contributing to the objective.
A very high pick rate means that this perk is strong if not overpowered. It is however everyones choice to bring whatever they want. It may be boring but its theri chase. At least thats what I would say about solo-q. Teams with 4 adrens can kick dirt.
If you put your life on the line on purpose then sorry you are not going to get a free escape. People are way to cocky because they rely on adrenalin so much.
So I don't think having them to at least contribute a small amount to the objective is a bad thing.
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@DefJukies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3643980#Comment_3643980
"I don't think there is a single killer which benefits from using his power the entire match."
I'll start from the entire roster:
- Nurse
- Huntress
- Hag
- Clown
- Spirit
- Plague
- Demo
- Slinger
- Pyramidhead
- Blight
- Trickster
- Nemesis
- Cenobite
- Artist
- Wesker
- Knight
- Skull Merchant
- Chucky
"I don't think there is a SINGLE killer which benefits from using his power the entire match."
I give you nurse and maybe clown but every other killer has a significant power cooldown or downside. Aside from nurse which probably will forever be the exception on everything none of the killers I named in the last sentence are close to the level billy is at in his current overbuffed broken status.
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@DefJukies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3643980#Comment_3643980
"I don't think there is a single killer which benefits from using his power the entire match."
I'll start from the entire roster:
- Nurse
- Huntress
- Hag
- Clown
- Spirit
- Plague
- Demo
- Slinger
- Pyramidhead
- Blight
- Trickster
- Nemesis
- Cenobite
- Artist
- Wesker
- Knight
- Skull Merchant
- Chucky
"I don't think there is a SINGLE killer which benefits from using his power the entire match."
I give you nurse. However every other killer has a significant power cooldown or downside. Billy does not. Aside from the nurse which will probably forever the exception on everything a killer as strong as Billy with infinite power and no downside to it is too much.
But sure keep focussing on one sentence, ignoring all the other points I've made in a desperate atempt to invalidate my argument. The following sentence was refering to the power being unlimited. But sure enough you ignored it