AsherFrost
AsherFrost
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@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2009316#Comment_2009316
If a Killer cannot find a Survivor in 20 minutes, why should they be rewarded?
How would you feel if the Survivors just escaped after a 20 minute time limit?
That would be completely unacceptable to you, correct?
You've been advocating for a time limit solely benefiting one side this entire discussion and that will never happen.
Because their job is defense. The primary objective in the match are generators. Survivors goal is to fix them, killers role is to defend them. If the survivors can't get them fixed, they didn't beat the defense, the defense won. If I'm playing a game where I have to take down 5 towers to win, and I only get 4, I didn't win. It's that simple.
Yeah, I would be against letting survivors go that don't finish the objective, see above for why, as I don't know how many ways I can explain the role difference.
Any time limit that doesn't immediately result in the Survivors escaping will by virtue of the way the game is built at its core benefit the killer. Even if the game just ended the killer would have to get the greater share of the prize because again, he was able to successfully keep the survivors from finishing their objective for the entire match. So yes, time limits favor defense, the trick is making them long enough that it's not an unfair advantage. As the stated average match time according to the devs is 8 minutes, and the average match time according to reddit, these forums and my own research is around 10, 20 seems more than generous. Again, that's 20 minutes from the last repaired gen, not 20 minutes total, so you're getting over twice the length of an average match to work out how to finish a single generator.
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@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2008847#Comment_2008847
You keep arguing for a 20 minute time limit where the Survivor's just die and anything else is unacceptable because it's their fault.
That's stupid.
If a time limit were to be implemented the goal would be to end the game, not favor one side or the other.
I didn't say anything else was unacceptable. If you look just to the top of this page in fact, you'll see me fully on board with an idea where the game essentially goes to an egc state.
So you are starting with a false premise, but let's roll with it.
If the survivors are unable to break the killer's defense and complete a gen in 20 minutes, why should they be rewarded? Honestly the big reason I don't want it to just end at the end of a time limit is it's just too anticlimactic.
Pressure should be on the survivors to finish the gens and get out, in my opinion (which is all any of this is, despite how angry some may become) that is what makes playing survivor fun. I want a time limit in my survivor matches. I want to know I'm under the gun and need to pull out the win. I don't want the killer to basically do the last gen for me because my team couldn't hack it, that would be insulting.
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I like playing against a good hag.
Can't just disarm every trap like trapper, even if you bring a flashlight or find one, it's got limited battery so you have to prioritize. Also unlike trapper there are times where you actually want to trip her traps to distract her or even just to clear a bunch in front of a hook or gen. She makes you change up your entire playstyle, which I'm always for.
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It seems like the OP's biggest issue, after reading through all this, is with their teammates. So I ask, why punish the killer for the selfishness and bad planning of your team?
Yes, a survivor dcing/suiciding on first hook is selfish, it harms their team because that person doesn't want to play anymore.
Camping as a killer isn't really selfish, just stupid, it's a 1 man team. He's not there to make sure every survivor has a good time, he's there to stop gens and hook survivors. If he loses enough matches he'll learn to play smarter.
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@Toybasher said:
Being immersed and stealthy is fine.
Remaining off generators and hiding when it's 2 survivors left, and just waiting for the killer to give up and DC after 45 minutes is not.
I'm an immersed David Tapp who strives to get a silver/gold lightbringer. I rarely escape, I'm bad at looping, but I do take pride in the fact I am a gen jockey. I'm doing my part as long as I am physically able to. (I'd rather hide in the area next to the gen when the killer arrives if possible. Otherwise I'm on a generator or once I max out objective, I might switch to popping totems.)
If you don't think you'll be able to finish the gens, search the chests and hope you get a key. If not, you have to attempt to progress generators in some way. (Or at least pop a totem or two, find the closed hatch, bring the other survivor to it, and let the killer kill you so the other survivor can grab hatch if you really, truly don't have ANY other options)
If survivors decide to ignore the generators at that point and just hide in a corner crouchwalking around, it's a potential hostage situation if it goes on long enough and survivors are trying to waste the killer's time only.
Anyways, ideally if a generator hasn't popped in the past 20 minutes (It's a pretty long time, but I think 20 minutes without a gen being popped is well past "Survivors are just taking their time" territory), the killer should be able to whack the exit gate switch to manually start a "Sudden Death" version of the EGC with a shorter timer, and maybe some kind of penalties for survivors such as (Not all of these, but some of them) having their locations blipped, the other exit gate remaining unpowered, survivors being exposed, aura reveal, etc.
This would help fix hostage situations by giving the killer a way to force a match to end if survivors are ignoring gens and hiding for a prolonged period of time. The killer can decide to keep searching for them if he wants, or hit the exit switch to cause the match to end if survivors are actually wasting his time.
I like this idea. If it confers something similar to NOED it wouldn't feel so much like the killer doing the objective for the survivors because they couldn't, and more like an organic evolution of game flow.
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@Bond4ever said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2008710#Comment_2008710
Ohhh boy, you contradict yourself in so many points.
If the killer is doing "too good" then he should be able to find the survivor, isn't the killer doing "too good"? (Using your logic)
"If they dont do their objective they die" They're hiding, and you say they're not doing their objective, why complaining then, if they're gonna die? (Using your logic?)
And no, survivors are supposed to survive at all costs, and if they're hiding they're surviving. BUT in order to escape from the killer they have to repair the gens.
So punishing survivors for surviving is a great idea to you? aka. doing their objective (Using your logic, again)
If, as you claim, survivors are just meant to survive at all costs, then why isn't there a timer like f13, where If they survive long enough they win? The win condition is very clear, you arguing against it is amusing, but ultimately pointless.
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@valvarez4 said:
Asherfrost, it’s 4 secs. That’s 23 meters with a 115% killer seeing every survivor
Shows how often I use it.
NGL tried unlocking it, hate playing bubba, gonna have to wait for shrine. Equipped it on him, but didn't find it really helped me much. I'd get maybe 1 person who didn't know how to hide from the reveal, and by the time I got there, 75% of the time they were gone. So maybe 25% of the time it actually lead me to a survivor, which to me feels about as useful as guessing which gen to check first. The BP bonus on the other hand was WONDERFUL!
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@Bond4ever said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2008640#Comment_2008640
I think a top tier legacy survivor saying that is enough.
And this game is supposed to be played 2 ways: Loop or Hide (that's why we have stealth perk and anti stealth perks, mr)
Short version?
Survivors are doing a playstyle: Hiding, if you can't look for them, accept it: Press the button and end the game or keep lookin for them (if you're confident you're skilled enough)
It makes no sense to punish survivor for effectively hiding against the killer (Which is a intended play style)
See how your argument goes both ways?
It really doesn't though. I'm not arguing against playing stealthy, be as sneaky as you want while you try to complete the objectives. Just, y'know actually try to complete the objectives.
That's my whole argument. The entire game is based around powering 5 generators to open a gate (or hatch) and leave. Survivor teams have the offensive role, as they have to find and complete the objectives. Killers have the defensive role, as their job is to stop the objectives from being completed. It doesn't matter if the survivors sneak, run, leap, drop pallets willy-nilly, whatever they want. If they don't do the gens, they don't get to leave alive. It's really that simple. A timed match reinforces that concept. A give up button for the killer to press when he's doing too good just doesn't.
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@Bond4ever said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2008539#Comment_2008539
Oh yes solo's have a lot of communication, that's exactly the reason why (maybe?) 70% of the survivor forum complain are about why solo experience is so bad, even ayrun (a top tier survivor) says it takes him 1 day to get those good games as a solo survivor, cause it is a horrible experience 90% of the times, but fine.
And I didn't include perks, why did you?
How do you pressure a killer which doesn't care what you do, unless you touch their gen...? Theres 2 options:
A. Get grabbed
B. Move and let the killer kick the gen (probably with overcharge)
Now if you want to have a chance to at least get the killer attention, you have to be on a SWF, or you're gonna get killed in 17? minutes.
And you taking "others game" like F13 as a example of game that have time limit is really bold of you, I think we already know DBD is really different from F13 (DBD has a lot of perks, different balance, is a 4v1 etc etc...)
And you didn't answer me this:
You dont like the button for that reason?
I'll apply the same logic with ur idea: I dont like the timer cause it is the killer job to look for survivors, killers shouldn't get free kills because of the killer not being able to find them (probably a skill issue)
And lore isn't over balance, balance is always first.
Even the loading screen says that you're supposed to look for survivors. If you're not able to look for them and want to leave the game, then press the button. As you said: At that point, you just want to end the game, dont you?
I'll wait.
You have lots of complaints on the forum because people like coming to multiplayer game forums to complain. Go ahead, find a forum for any multiplayer pvp game that isn't full of people complaining on all sides. If you are looking to the threads here to tell you what is happening with the general player base I feel you are giving these forums far too much credit.
Your evidence is a loading screen message mentions looking for survivors, ok. The first thing the survivor tutorial teaches is how to do a gen. Why? Because the gens are the objectives. We aren't playing hide and seek here. (That would be, ironically enough, closer to F13) you look for survivors to make sure they aren't completing gens. You leave hooked survivors so their teammates will save them instead of doing gens, you kill people before the end game so they can't do gens. If there is a playstyle that keeps all 4 survivors from doing gens, guess what? That's the killers objective. Thats why every single killer can kick gens to revert progress.
Short version? If the killer is keeping the survivors from completing their objective, he is winning the game. So no, I don't think it is appropriate for him to have to give up that win to progress. Balance-wise it makes no sense to punish the killer for effectively defending the objectives. The killer role is by nature defense.
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@Bond4ever said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2008143#Comment_2008143
Yeah and? It takes less than 10 seconds to go to the next gen (That if we're talking about a low mobility killer cause on high mobility killer.. we all know)
And working with 2 people isn't that effective.
You contradict yourself "sooner or later they will chase you" I said he refuses to. And that doesn't really work cause the killer will just kick the gen or hit you, if you try to repair it again he will down you and probably slug you. AND that only works on SWF cause solos dont have communication.
And even if that work the gen progress will be really slow cause you have to move or the killer will grab you.
You dont like the button for that reason?
I'll apply the same logic with ur idea: I dont like the timer cause it is the killer job to look for survivors, killers shouldn't get free kills because of the killer not being able to find them (probably a skill issue)
And lore isn't over balance, balance is always first.
Even the loading screen says that you're supposed to look for survivors. If you're not able to look for them and want to leave the game, then press the button. As you said: At that point, you just want to end the game, dont you?
Point and buttdance
You've got all the communication you need.
And again, as I said, if he doesn't, it'll take less than 20 minutes to get a single gen up, if he's not hooking he can't use pgtw, so he's down to the basic kick which does nothing if you tap the gen in time. Fix the gen, back up when you see him coming, return while he's on the way to the next. Keep the pressure on, use his desire to stick to a strict patrol against him by making it more stressful for him to do so. Again, basic strategy. It's the same as usual 3 gen, because that never takes 20 minutes and so doesn't need to be adjusted for that time limit.
And actually, personally I don't care if survivors want to examine the shrubbery while I'm playing killer. I main doc, all they are doing is confirming they can't loop and will be an easy chase when I get them to scream for me. I do find it very odd that there is no time limit. F13 has one, as well as every single multiplayer pvp game I've ever played except this one. I more want the timer for when I'm on a survivor team that is full of people who give up on a 3 gen, so I can move on to the next match.
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@Bond4ever said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2008044#Comment_2008044
Did you read the part where I said the killer doesn't care about the survivors, tell me, how will he hook someone..? (So basically all what u said got debunked, this would work with the current 3 gen strat, but if we add the 20 minutes....)
And drop the victim card already, you said im talking crap.
Still dont know why you dont like the idea of the button in the basement, it's sad that survivor play like this, but it is the killers fault for not being able to find them. period
Gens take 44 seconds to complete with 2 survivors.
You also seem to have missed this paragraph
If the killer refuses outright to commit to a chase, spread up and keep pressure on all 3 gens. Again, 4 survivors, 1 killer. Sooner or later they'll have to chase one of you, and then you've got it.
If they don't? One of the gens will get done, and still well within 20 minutes.
Yes, after the second time you insulted my intelligence I called something you wrote crap.
Why don't I like the button? I don't like the idea that the killer should basically do the objective for the survivor team because they are unable to. That's the opposite of the way the game is played and makes no sense within the lore either.
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First, he's the size of half a pallet. I get that the entity confers strength to the killers, but that's stretching it.
What I would do is let him run under the pallets. He's small, he should squeeze right through quick and easy.
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I want to point something out here.
"you do all the gens. Well then, game's over right?"
This is exactly what people mean when they talk about entitlement. Maybe you misstyped, but no, even without NOED the game isn't over when the last gen is done. You have to open the gates and escape, which means, even without NOED getting 1 of 2 gates open while the killer tries to stop you. Maybe it seems like I am being pedantic, but my point is that the idea that the game is won with the last gen seems to me to be where a lot of the bad feelings for NOED and other end game perks comes from. It ain't over until it's over.
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@Bond4ever said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2007927#Comment_2007927
You're either trolling, or you dont know how to speak/understand english, you're selective hearing or you're just completely ignorant.
No one is complaining about the current 3 gen, me and some people are complaining about your horrible 20 minutes idea and how bad would it be for the game
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/H3GLG82P0N38/sin-t-c3-adtulo.png
Do you understand that, or is your brain way too small for that?
Again, insults. Yet I'm the troll. Me, the guy being insulted.
Where are the other 3 survivors? If these are the last 3 gens left, they should definitely be around, unless they just want to lose.
The strat is simple. Using your illustration you try to keep 2 survivors on 1 and 2 on 2, assuming 4 alive, which is what you stated was the case earlier. Will someone get hooked? Absolutely, and that time the killer takes to pick up and carry that survivor should be used rushing the gens (the survivor that wasn't hooked on his 2 man squad needs to decide if their gen is close enough to complete solo, or whether they should move to the other team, there are too many variables to do the same thing each time)
it takes 60 seconds to go from stage 1 to 2 on the hook, that's plenty of time to finish up, if the killer comes back before the gen is done, do what you can to keep working and tapping the gen, even if you're just popping in. It's 1 person, there should be at least 2 of you, he can only realistically focus on one at a time. You can switch it up to, maybe have someone go tap gen 3 to keep his attention, or if it's hag trigger traps around 3 and run, you'll get downed, but that's what you do on a team game, you take one for the team and hope they get the rescue.
If the killer refuses outright to commit to a chase, spread up and keep pressure on all 3 gens. Again, 4 survivors, 1 killer. Sooner or later they'll have to chase one of you, and then you've got it.
Will this work 100% of the time? No. Nothing does. But if you get killed you'll know you didn't go down because the killer was "doing nothing" he just kept a better defense than your offense. Patrolling gens and keeping survivors off of them isn't "doing nothing" it's literally playing the objective.
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@Da_tater said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2005938#Comment_2005938
I'm 60/40 survivor but seems like something that I wouldn't mind to balance the game a little more .
The reason that most killers only consider bbq a bp+ perk is because it only gives 3 seconds of reveal. That's enough to let you see where they are, but not where they are going.
With survivors, you know when someone is hooked where the killer is. He's at the hook. You also have a pretty good idea of where he's going, and can actually hear him coming in most cases. Basically you already have more information without any perks than bbq actually provides.
At most, if you had the same aura reveal, you would see the last second of the hook animation, the killer turn, and take a single step. Then the 3 seconds are up. That just doesn't seem useful to me. I could be wrong, but I would rather just bring Kindred and see the killer as long as he is near the hook, as whether or not he's camping is the only information I really want on the killer at that time.
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@Da_tater said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2004679#Comment_2004679
I have to disagree with the they won't win i have done it several times with just 2 survivors alive . Took a while be we got it done
You should tell that to the guy above me who seems to believe it an unbeatable strategy :p
Seriously though, that's why I suggested 20 minutes. I don't want to end the game right away, 20 minutes is longer than most matches last in total, so it should be more than enough for 2-4 survivors to get on the same page even without comms and get a single gen done. If they can't, I just don't see them doing it in 25, 30 or 45 minutes either.
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Ah yes, the mythical "Early 3 gen" otherwise known as "I can't go over there man, the killer is scary!" When 4 healthy survivors spend an entire match allowing 1 person to control half the map, and complain about it later.
Potato ranks is real life guys.
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@dezzmont said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2007108#Comment_2007108
So let me get this straight.
The teammate tried to unhook in front of the killer without BT, a killer famous for having good detection and the ability to really stick to survivors, and farmed you off the hook and your mad at the DOCTOR?
Be mad at your teammate. There is no rush to get someone off the hook, you have a full 60 seconds before the hook state advances and the longer you wait the more your punishing the killer for patrolling. Only go for an early unhook if you confirm the killer is actually gone (vs doctor, for example, its a good bet he is a bit distracted if you hear another survivor scream).
What was the doctor supposed to do? Again, close his eyes and pretend to not see you? Just taking the hit isn't enough you need to bait a full chase and keep them off the other dude. If the doctor just got a nice little tap on your buddy's butt while they were unhooking and then your buddy vanished as you started to run, then yeah the doc is gunna go for you.
That sounds like a super fair gameplay interaction: Your buddy messed up the unhook and you got wrecked. To that I say... GOOD.
Now if we want to change up the game so the killer has a super innate tempo lead from hooking so they aren't encouraged to eliminate players efficiently, basically changing it from being efficient to eliminate players to being efficient to spread the pain, we could do that.
But any time the idea gets floated survivors don't like it. We are talking like 'Each time your hooked lose 33% repair speed" to actually create a scenario where the killer isn't massively encouraged to get a survivor out of the game.
The killer isn't there to show you a good time. They aren't your babysitter. They aren't there to give you a puppet show and read you a bedtime story. But more importantly, it isn't the game designer's job to ensure you never have a negative experience in the game. Actually quite the opposite. The entire gameplay loop of the game, again, involves the killer being, if not a source of fear (No one is afraid in DBD), a source of tension. Tension REQUIRES an anticipated negative result: If you didn't give a ######### the game WOULD NOT BE GOOD.
Its an asymetric competitive game, that means for the game to work sometimes ######### has to suck for you sometimes. Sometimes you need to lose, get trashed, or be in an unfun situation, to give context to the entire experience.
This is basic ludology: Gamestates need to matter and be distinct from each other, and each side needs gamestates where they are more or less in control than the other. It isn't 'being a dick' to put you into a gamestate where you lack control, and recontextualizing 'I lost a major interaction and am now in a deeply disadvantaged gamestate where my opponent WILL win unless something exceptional happens' as 'This is unfair and unfun because I want to play the game' is ridiculous, its like crying that your booted from the round of Apex legends cuz your team got wiped or that your out of the round in counterstrike because you charged an AWP with a handgun and now you gotta sit there not playing and you have less money now too so its harder in the future.
"Your in a bad spot and probably will lose" isn't just standard in games. Its literally necessary for a game to make sense as a game. If any point of survivor play gave you as much control over your own fate as any other, it would mean good survivor play doesn't matter, which is EXACTLY how Deathgarden worked, and that game died because it was really boring for all sides because gamestate didn't matter.
BHVR did an amazingly expensive test run of a 'no camp' system in the form of a massive game that they paid licensing fees towards WB for and it flopped so crazy hard. You do not want this.
I wish this could be made to appear in every thread, right at the top.
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So in the past 24 hours
Camping - Toxic
Slugging - Toxic
BBQ - Toxic
Gen defense - Toxic
Killing any survivor before all are on death hook - Toxic
Hitting one survivor while another is down or being carried - Toxic
Basement hooking - Toxic
Hooking next to gens - Toxic
Hooking at EGC - Toxic
Returning to a hook when I see a save has occurred - Toxic
You know, it's a really good thing I don't take this forum seriously enough to let it dictate my playstyle, or my killer matches would just see me staring at walls and playing with the crows until everyone left.
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@Snap_Tobiyume said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2007218#Comment_2007218
You do realize that hag can hit you when she teleports no matter what. She can hit you when you trigger one, place it again, then if you trigger another one, so the same thing. The only way to beat a three gen hag is to literally take the game hostage.
Yes, she can hit you when she teleports. That's why you pop her traps in quick succession running through them. If your looper gets caught, someone else should break them while she's carrying to the hook and doesn't want to drop for the TP. This is really basic hag strategy.
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I didn't know about this build. Sounds really fun, and challenging.
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@GriffinsMarkGaming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2006742#Comment_2006742
I'm not entirely against a timer it's just that depending on the length of the timer, I feel like some people might feel a bit rushed and either might cause more 3 gens or feel too pressured to do anything else, like totems or healing. And just to let you know, it wasn't your comment. I do really like your idea for the timer though, as someone who swaps between playing survivor and killer I can see a few issues with it but overall seems pretty good and like a solid idea.
I get it can seem harsh for survivors being 3 genned. But honestly if I can't get my team to work as a team well enough to force complete a gen in 20 minutes, we lost. All the time In the world won't help at that point, so I'd rather take the L and move on.
As killer? Well I main the Doctor, so crouching around the corners works about as well as dropping pallets in front of a nurse. I don't think the time limit would come up much. Either a team is good enough to beat me, or they end up hooked, either way my killer matches don't last longer than 15 minutes on average.
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@Bond4ever said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2006724#Comment_2006724
"you're not understanding what im saying a killer would keep doing that for 15 minutes if he needs to, just to ruin your game, cause that's the main mindset a killer will have if he plays like that, basically a loop
- Go to generator A
- Go to generator B
- Go to Generator C
And if a survivor is there and doesn't want to get off the gen grab him or if you're able to down him, do it. Repeat for 15 minutes so you get a 4k."
This is what would happen if we add OP's idea (and it would happen cause killers are getting rewarded for doing that aka. free kills)
Is that clear enough to you, or should I explain it on paint?
I don't know why you think repeating the same crap will somehow make you right, or make a killer able to be 3 places simultaneously, but I do giggle a little bit every time I see it. Tell me, are you copy pasting, or do you go through the work of typing the same nonsense out time after time?
I'm sorry you feel so persecuted by other players in this game. I'm sorry outnumbering the killer 4 to 1 isn't enough of an advantage for you. Most of all, I'm sorry you so routinely 3 gen yourself, to the point it has made it so that you have convinced yourself you just can't win. Sounds rough.
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@Snap_Tobiyume said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2006663#Comment_2006663
But that doesn't work against a hag that stays there. Other killers who three gen, yeah, this'll work on them, but not hag. With hag, the only thing you can do is just hide near there, but not too close, until she leaves because she wants the game to end. With hag you need to wait for a while.
With Hag, as I stated, you need to be more proactive. You gotta find her 3 gen plan and wreck it early, literally get the best looper in your group to run through her traps on all three, she'll avoid teleporting at first, but it'll get to her. While she's chasing take the middle of her 3 and focus the hell out of it. Use any toolboxes you brought, keep at least 2 people on I and go. Don't let her get comfortable. If she placed the traps a bit out from the gens I like to crouch through so they don't trigger and fix it right under her nose. Same as all Hag strategy, her strength is in her setup, so don't let her get a comfortable setup.
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@ThonMaïs said:
What is the problem with immersed players, exactly?
Nothing so long as they aren't the type more interested in inspecting the textures on the borders of the map when there is ######### to be done.
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Not wrong but I do feel like dropping a #notallclaudettes
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I think DbD may be the only multiplayer pvp game I've played without match timers. The devs have stated for years now the average match should take about 8 minutes, so 20 is more than twice that. Also if it was my comment you referred to, please remember I also proposed the timer reset each time a gen is completed. So it's not even a match timer so much as an idle timer. If no objectives are being done for 20 minutes, the match really should be over.
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@Bond4ever said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2006689#Comment_2006689
Now I know you didn't read, I asked you "HOW TO COUNTER THE 3 GEN STRAT IF WE ADD OP'S IDEA (KILLING SURVIVOR IN 20 MINUTES IF THEY DONT REPAIR A GEN"
Already confirmed it.
And it isn't the survivors fault that flashlight cause epilepsy, if anything I dont think this game is made for epileptic players (look at oni or even a bug is dangerous for their health)
And well that's your definition of toxic, which is completely fine.
Most of the times survivor do that I can find them (Im always using a anti stealth perk or information perk) so if I can counter it and you can too, why others can't? isn't that a skill issue
Sorry, I should have added
"Do it in under 20 minutes. Given the average total match time isn't even 20 minutes long, this should be pretty easy, and honestly if you can't get 1 gen done in 20 minutes, you're losing either way"
Is that clear enough for you?
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Started with Claudette, she was the best looking out of the main game. Kept getting wrecked by Doctor in matches, so when I started playing killer I picked him.
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@Bond4ever said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2005350#Comment_2005350
That has nothing to do with what I said, killers consider toxic survivor clicking their flashlight, BUT a killer doing that is a "simple play style"... double standard, but im not focusing on that.
I DO want the match to end, but I dont want to be punished for a killer playing like a jerk, if anything he should be the one being punished. Being kill gives u less point and makes you depip.
"You also talk about someone picking a small corner of the map and patrolling just 3 gens from the beginning to force the 3 gen later. Again, that's a strategy, and one that can be beaten by smart players who apply pressure to multiple gens in his pattern. If he's capable of keeping the pressure on enough to beat that, then guess what, he isn't "doing nothing"
And did you read the part where I said the killer doesn't care about what survivor are doing?
As a survivor you can't apply pressure to the killer when he simply doesn't care, he will only care if you touch that generator and you dont move from it, he will just grab you and that would hurt your team even more. (I have played against killer like this, they're rare but if we add that change this would be really common)
So yeah, read again.
And you seem to be trolling, cause you're not understanding what im saying a killer would keep doing that for 15 minutes if he needs to, just to ruin your game, cause that's the main mindset a killer will have if he plays like that, basically a loop
- Go to generator A
- Go to generator B
- Go to Generator C
And if a survivor is there and doesn't want to get off the gen grab him or if you're able to down him, do it. Repeat for 15 minutes so you get a 4k.
Do you understand that?
Difference is survivor can counter EGC by just escaping and leaving 1 survivor behind, how do you counter this?
"I think you added this after my first reply. So you don't think a killer deserves to win for keeping a solid defense, but the survivors should get a win literally handed to them by the killer for... What reason exactly? Because they refused to play the objectives?"
Didn't you just said:
"If someone is playing a style you find so abhorrent, why don't you want the match to end? Are you hoping they'll get bored and stop patrolling?"
I'll apply your logic here too: If you're having a bad time against survivors that are playing stealthy and you're NOT ABLE to find them, dont you just want the game to end?
So killers should win by pressing W for 15/17 minutes and going from gen A to B and basically ignoring the survivors so the entity kills them for u, but not a survivor which plays stealthy (im not justifying game hostage)
MY solution still stands using your logic, if a killer can't find a survivor (and that's the killer fault even tho it seems unfair and I understand it) it isn't the survivor fault, just end the game and move on. The killer can look for the survivor and he has perks for that the killer can counter that, that's why the solution should favor survivors cause it's the killer the one who failed and he just want to the end the game.
What counters do survivor have against the Gen A to gen B if we apply OP's idea? You didn't gave me a single counter.
I did.
Twice.
Seriously, go read. Hell, do a search on these forums and you'll find an entire thread full of ideas how to avoid or beat the 3 gen strategy. It's 1 killer vs 4 survivors, they can only be in 1 place at the same time, even on twins. Divide and conquer.
As far as why flashlight spamming is considered "toxic" by some but 3 gen defense isn't? I don't consider anything in game to be toxic myself, but I would wager it's because of those two behaviors, one can help with a match, and the other just wastes your batteries and can potentially cause issues for people with epilepsy. As for me? Click away, it's your flashlight.
I don't consider people playing immersed to be toxic either. You'll note if you look over my comments I've never once claimed it was toxic or abhorrent. To me it's just kinda sad. They know they lost, it's just denial at that point. I keep my patrol and wait until they show up, but if it is a problem for multiple other players, a timer would help, as it did with the EGC, which caused similar frustrations.
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@Snap_Tobiyume said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2006458#Comment_2006458
Ok, then tell me what you can do to beat a three gen hag that isn't just waiting until she gives up. Since you're obviously SO much better than me.
I already did.
Twice.
Not because I'm better, because I looked up the strategy, tried it, and observed it works more often than it doesn't.
Of course the best defense is to avoid the 3 gen, leave one gen at the edge alone, and immediately pop the traps around the 3 she's trying to keep. She'll probably get an early hook, and you'll buy time to beat the 3 gen before it starts. Sometimes as solo you'll get teammates that refuse to work together, and then you'll die, but that's pretty much the same with any strategy.
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@Snap_Tobiyume said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2006441#Comment_2006441
If the killer doesn't want to leave, it isn't a matter of strategy.
If you really believe that, you may as well just go stand under a hook and wait each match.
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@Snap_Tobiyume said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2006413#Comment_2006413
It can take 20 minutes to lead the killer away.
Then I would suggest practicing your strategy.
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@EvanRaven said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2006214#Comment_2006214
i'm talking about when people ragequit the game at the start because the killer hooked them first. i hate the struggle mechanic too. should just be automatic, or you hit skill checks instead to stay alive.
I get that, my point is more about how difficult it is to prove they intended to throw the game.
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@Snap_Tobiyume said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2005601#Comment_2005601
Maybe luring the killer away, breaking traps. Things take time. Oh, and also, if a hag places all her traps around a three gen, they deserve to wait in that match for a long time.
Do they take 20 minutes or more?
If a hag has 3 gens trapped up, crouch through her traps.
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@Mr_K said:
It's like the employee suggestion box at your workplace. But unlike your workplace, you can't hear the shredder.
Hey now, my boss respects me. He waits until I leave the office before he breaks out the shredder
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@Katee_Main said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2006218#Comment_2006218
When you're down to 1-2 generators left and all of them are in extremely close proximity to where the killer can easily patrol them. Mostly happens when you leave the 3 gen cluster (that spawns every game) to be the last 3 gens on the map.
Ok, so in that scenario, how is the killer holding the game hostage? The survivors put themselves in a losing situation by being careless, if they work together they can turn it around, (even solo you can work together, you have points and butt dances) they can pressure 2 gens at once, forcing the killer to choose which to protect hard, keep constant pressure until they break and chase a survivor, and there ya go. If you have less than 3 survivors, you'll probably die, so take the L, learn from your mistakes and move on to the next match.
The main thing to consider here is the length of time. I, and other are suggesting a 20 minute timer after the last completed gen. If you can't fix the last gen in 20 minutes, you aren't doing it in 40, 60 or 80, so why not end it and let all 5 players move on to the next match? Same reason we have the EGC in the first place.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2006214#Comment_2006214
This is why they should change the struggle phase independent of the whole suicide thing. It's just tedious as all hell.
Totally agree. I've tried popping my palm against it instead, but that sucks and will end up breaking my controller. Just let me hold the button down to stay alive.
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I use it to rank the matchmaking. If I'm placed with people I feel are at my mid-ass level, I give it 5. If I'm matched with people who spend more time playing than I do at work, or people who seem to have had their brains replaced with root vegetables, I give it a 1. No idea if it does anything.
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@Katee_Main said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2004661#Comment_2004661
The problem with that is a gen lock. To where the roles are reversed and the killer then holds the game hostage. It's already hard enough to beat a gen lock because you played yourself into being gen locked. Might as well DC if you're gen locked with a time limit.
What's a gen lock? That's a term I have not seen before.
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I would be for it, but I have arthritis in my hands.
That means every now and then, my thumb seizes and I can't tap x like a madman to stay alive, and I die.
I would really rather not be penalized for that, but how would I prove it wasn't a conscious choice, outside of constantly recording my hands while I play?
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@Kebek said:
One day you're going to give up on DBD and we'll miss your hilarious biased opinions.
You always manage to provide good entertainment, keep it up.
I would honestly be surprised if they actually played the game now. I don't see where they would find the time, being here almost 24/7 already.
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@Bond4ever said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2005240#Comment_2005240
You're basically camping gens cause you're not doing anything else than just going from gen to gen and ignoring every survivor to the point you'll make them quit.
This already happens with doctor but it isn't that common, now imagine this change on a high mobility killer....
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GTTF3HIMKN1J/image.png
And you dont have to "keep pressure" a toxic doctor 3 gen strat build will just ignore EVERY SURVIVOR and just press w and go from gen to gen, basically like a non stop loop, and if a survivor doesn't get off the gen he will just grab him and drop him.
If a killer wants to be toxic he doesn't care if he has to do that for 30 minutes, he just want to make the survivor suffer that's all.
NOW making this work as every killer would be game breaking and would just make every survivor leave (yeah not every killer will play like this, but im sure if the game isn't going as the killer wants it to be, he will ofc do this strat)
Fact is if the killer is good enough to keep 4 people away from 3 gens all by himself, you aren't winning that game regardless. Best you can hope for is a hatch escape for 1, why drag it out?
You dont have to be good when gens are close enough all you have to is press W and go from gen to gen and ignore anything that happens.
There isn't a "fact" and you're not winning the game isn't a argument, so we should end the game once the doors are open cause the killer isn't getting a 4k at that point? Is that fair to you?
Third, appropriately enough, the three gen situation is largely survivor caused. Survivors choose which gens to focus on repairing, and if they choose wrong, they'll put themselves in a bad position near the end. So the survivor got themselves into a mess they can't fix, and now want to drag out the game forever because they know how unlikely a win is, why should that be rewarded?
Most of the time yes, but we're talking about what most killer would do:
- Everyone loads in the game
- The killer would go directly to camp 3 gens and he wouldn't move from that zone
- The killer waits for 4 gens to get done
- Now the killer will just press W and ignore anything that happens in the game, he will keep doing this
- NOW if we add OP's idea to the game the killer in this situation would just win for not doing anything.
Do you even see how BAD this situation would be for the game, or you're just trolling?
"EDIT: And if we want a solution RN then make it so the killer can go to the basement and power all gens, this activates the end game collapse and survivors should open the doors."
I think you added this after my first reply. So you don't think a killer deserves to win for keeping a solid defense, but the survivors should get a win literally handed to them by the killer for... What reason exactly? Because they refused to play the objectives?
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@Da_tater said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/233303/bbq-should-be-a-hex-perk-or-nerfed
I disagree with you on this but a slight nerf to it does need to be made . For as long as the killer sees your aura the survivor should see the killers aura would make it a little better
Why would you need that? You know where the killer is. He's at the hook that your buddy just got hung on. I'm not against it really, just seems pointless.
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@Shaped said:
I don't have bt and I play solo so I always bodyblock to take a hit if the killer is after the unhooked and coming straight back.
But that is probably different. I see what I do as optimal because the other person have a chance to escape if the killer hits me, or even better the killer will come after me instead since I am injured now too.
The difference there is ideally you would be doing so while uninjured, so the killer can't immediately down you and step over your body
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@Bond4ever said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2005240#Comment_2005240
You're basically camping gens cause you're not doing anything else than just going from gen to gen and ignoring every survivor to the point you'll make them quit.
This already happens with doctor but it isn't that common, now imagine this change on a high mobility killer....
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GTTF3HIMKN1J/image.png
And you dont have to "keep pressure" a toxic doctor 3 gen strat build will just ignore EVERY SURVIVOR and just press w and go from gen to gen, basically like a non stop loop, and if a survivor doesn't get off the gen he will just grab him and drop him.
If a killer wants to be toxic he doesn't care if he has to do that for 30 minutes, he just want to make the survivor suffer that's all.
NOW making this work as every killer would be game breaking and would just make every survivor leave (yeah not every killer will play like this, but im sure if the game isn't going as the killer wants it to be, he will ofc do this strat)
Fact is if the killer is good enough to keep 4 people away from 3 gens all by himself, you aren't winning that game regardless. Best you can hope for is a hatch escape for 1, why drag it out?
You dont have to be good when gens are close enough all you have to is press W and go from gen to gen and ignore anything that happens.
There isn't a "fact" and you're not winning the game isn't a argument, so we should end the game once the doors are open cause the killer isn't getting a 4k at that point? Is that fair to you?
Third, appropriately enough, the three gen situation is largely survivor caused. Survivors choose which gens to focus on repairing, and if they choose wrong, they'll put themselves in a bad position near the end. So the survivor got themselves into a mess they can't fix, and now want to drag out the game forever because they know how unlikely a win is, why should that be rewarded?
Most of the time yes, but we're talking about what most killer would do:
- Everyone loads in the game
- The killer would go directly to camp 3 gens and he wouldn't move from that zone
- The killer waits for 4 gens to get done
- Now the killer will just press W and ignore anything that happens in the game, he will keep doing this
- NOW if we add OP's idea to the game the killer in this situation would just win for not doing anything.
Do you even see how BAD this situation would be for the game, or you're just trolling?
You've said toxic about 5 times there while describing a simple play style.
Putting aside that even the so called "impossible skill check" doc hasn't been a real build since ruin was nerfed. If someone is playing a style you find so abhorrent, why don't you want the match to end? Are you hoping they'll get bored and stop patrolling?
You also talk about someone picking a small corner of the map and patrolling just 3 gens from the beginning to force the 3 gen later. Again, that's a strategy, and one that can be beaten by smart players who apply pressure to multiple gens in his pattern. If he's capable of keeping the pressure on enough to beat that, then guess what, he isn't "doing nothing" he's playing defensively. It happens, you outnumber him literally 4 to 1, work as a team and you can overwhelm.
I'm not trolling, I am honestly confused why you think a 20 minute timer activating late in a game where the average match length isn't even 20 minutes total is a huge thing that would fundamentally change how the majority of killers play, while subsequently removing the tools the survivors already have to counter those same strategies. The EGC timer was created for many of the same reasons people are arguing for a match timer here, yet the sky did not fall and good killers still try to avoid letting survivors get to that stage whenever possible.
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@Bond4ever said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2004679#Comment_2004679
Still that's a stupid idea giving killers free kill for only camping the gens, so that's a hard NO from me
"Only camping the gens"
First off, you can't camp 3 gens. Camping implies sitting still, watching 3 gens involves patrolling from one to the other. I know you want to use "camping" for the negative connotations it has on this forum, but the word just doesn't apply.
Secondly you keep acting like keeping up enough pressure to keep survivors off the gens for 20 minutes is an easy task that requires no effort. Fact is if the killer is good enough to keep 4 people away from 3 gens all by himself, you aren't winning that game regardless. Best you can hope for is a hatch escape for 1, why drag it out?
Third, appropriately enough, the three gen situation is largely survivor caused. Survivors choose which gens to focus on repairing, and if they choose wrong, they'll put themselves in a bad position near the end. So the survivor got themselves into a mess they can't fix, and now want to drag out the game forever because they know how unlikely a win is, why should that be rewarded?
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@TicTac said:
Sluzzy, are you serious? A hex perk?
I mean, there is a first time for everything, but somehow I doubt it.
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@chadbeastofprey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2004661#Comment_2004661
that's a horrible idea. killers could force a 3-gen, hard camp it, and then just win by timing out.
playing against immersed survivors isn't fun but there isn't a simple fix.
If they are really hard 3 genned, isnt it better for a time limit to end the game so the survivors can move on? They won't win, why drag it out?
Maybe tie it to the number of gens done. 5 up? 5 minute limit. 1 gen left to do? 20 minutes. Each time a gen finishes it resets the timer.
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Joined yesterday, made 4 posts, 3 of which are new threads...