Archol123
Archol123
About
- Username
- Archol123
- Joined
- Visits
- 4,490
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286147#Comment_3286147
Reverting it back to 5 seconds simply hurts killers with no mobility the most while having basically no effect on killers with high mobility
Only way I can think of atm to keep it some what consistent across all killers, is for it to also disable powers for a short amount of time.
Ok then how about a different stun duration for killers? For example Nurse is rather fragile anyway... So what if stunning her just stuns her for an additional 40-50 %?
-
I quickly checked on the wiki and got this information:
That would make it 2.9 m of distance during lunge...
I however do not know how it fits together with this one:
Because if we take what we got above that would mean that a quick attack could reach at 3.1m and that sounds ridiculous, because otherwise I don't understand how they got to 6m, they even wrote above that this increase in movementspeed is what makes the difference between lunge attack and quick attack...
But if we assume that the 5.667m are correct then we need to ask about the time this lunge takes ... If we take this into acount then we can assume at least 0.4/0.5 seconds for the whole process, in which the survivor will gain another 2 m which makes the effective range about 3.667m.
Taking this stuff into account we can now determine at which range the nurse could still hit a survivor if she blinked perfectly on top of where they were. Given that 3.667m is below 4m/s that the survivor moves at we already know that nurse can not travel for more than 1 second because otherwise she would be out of range for it to hit. Nurse blinks at 13.33 m/s So she can blink for not much more than 12 m. Otherwise she just has to guess 1 out of 8 directions the survivor could have ran from their original point. And since there is no 2nd blink to correct it this really not good.
Source for the screenshots:
Basic Attacks are a Game Mechanic unique to Killers in Dead by Daylight. Basic Attacks are initiated whenever a Killer presses the Attack button. There are 2 different Basic Attacks available to all Killers. The Quick Attack is a short-ranged default Attack.A Quick Attack is initiated by merely tapping the Attack button and causes the Killer to swiftly swing their Weapon in front of them.A Quick Attack does not boost the Killer's Movement speed and therefore has a short range, only hitting Survi -
Ok, then tell me how would survivors keep breaking line of sight and run in a random direction when the nurse is not forced to use her blink to catch up? And saying this would be weak does not matter when it is about counterplay... Because even if it is in fact weak does not negate it not having interaction.
The problem with only one blink is also that during the 1.5 seconds a max range blink takes the survivor can get away 6m from the spot they were at when the blink started, which will make long range blinks really hard... If not impossible if the survivor reacts appropriately... Not having a 2nd blink to correct that is desastrous... It is not about getting good but about limiting the options... I'm not sure what the critical distance would be at which you could still hit the survivor if you blinked spot on, but I'm pretty sure it is not 6 m... One blinking someone that knows what they're doing at max distance is really rough if not basically impossible.
-
@Alionis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286223#Comment_3286223
Nobody runs the perk anymore? The survivors I'm playing with or against would like to have a word with you then, because trials without there being at least one DS equipped are still uncommon here.
I have maybe seen 10 ds in the last few months... At most Of the record far more often...
-
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286733#Comment_3286733
I would allow double kick.
And I see it as same kind of weaponry - take meta perk and create something that will turn it 180 so that you will think if you want to bring that meta stuff.
How is Jolt meta dude xD Not every gen regression perk is meta... Nah dude not a good plan...
-
@KerJuice said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286709#Comment_3286709
I respectfully disagree- after 1000 hours in this game, a player is very well experienced. But it’s ok- I understand you don’t like the idea and I respect it. Again, it was just a possible solution I came up with to help new players. Not the end all be all answer for it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286690#Comment_3286690
“Learning to hide red stain is a part of mindgaming anyway.” This is true.
Last year I played in a SWF with some friends of mine and they had between 1200 and 1500 hours... They didn't even know the basics of looping, all they did was hide xD You cannot tell me those guys were experienced survivors despite having tons of hours... And they played mainly survivor... now Imagine someone playing mostly killer xD
-
SWF does not even imply coms, if you put 4 good players in a team without communication they will still do better than people in soloq just because the matchmaking is so broken, so your conclusion is flawed from the beginning... The reasons comp squads perform that well are 1. They are all really good players by themselves 2. They have better coordination and information because of communications... If you delete the second reason by not using comms they will still play far better than your average soloq dudes... If 4 really good players play in a group withoutcoms they would still outperform the average soloq people, even if they used coms...
As for the perk itself, the boon thing only applied to boon totems with somewhat limited range as well as effect and you could avoid it by just not being in the area the boon was. But this thing applies to any regression perk and killer does not even have a clue that the perk is in this specific game... Survivors could leave the area of the negative boon, but what can killer do? He cannot even regress the gen the perk has effected... Or can he double kick them to just instantly negate it again? I don't like the idea at all.
-
I find it really sad, since the insta vault thing on Myers was hillarious to look at... It was not even good or anything but just funny, so why remove it.
-
@Ginnypig said:
You heard that right, not that i want too but what are the chances BHVR is nerfing pallet Freddy in the next few days?
Those who know, know.
?? It is the Scott Jund thing isn't it?
-
@KerJuice said:
I’m wondering if it’s time for it to go? Seeing how advanced our player base is going into 2023, it may be no longer needed. Instead of nerfing/buffing perks, this could be the buff killers need to push the kill rate up to the devs desired number (65% was it?). Mind games at pallets/windows will be tougher for survivors.
I think at the very least this should be experimented within a PTB, like the removal of Bloodlust.
Now I definitely could see an argument for this being too tough on new players. Maybe if a player has less than “X” amount of hours played then they get the benefit of seeing the red stain, and everyone above “X” amount of hours does not.
What are your thoughts? Keep it or remove it?
As others said before the red stain is a really good thing since it gives you the ability to mindgame with it, also removing it would make ghostfaces power less usefull, since it does not exist no anyway. Also different gameplay mechanics for different kind of players sounds terrible, you would not need to bother learning red stain mindgames anymore.
As for bloodlust I think the mechanic should go, as it rewards players for playing terrible, also getting bloodlusted at a rather safe tile for a minute does not really feel good, the killer does not really deserve the hit/down if she just follows you for almost a minute around a tile until he is fast enough for you to not be able to loop it anymore, just a terrible mechanic overall. If you cannot get a hit at a tile with your skill and current movementspeed you kick the pallet and move on. It also hinders players from getting better since they don't need to evaluate how long it would take them to get a hit and if it is worth continuing a chase or kicking the pallet and leaving since they are guaranteed a hit after xy time anyway.
-
And if you have all traps on hand from the beginning without the rest then you still have the problem with running around collecting old traps, I think not having all of them at once is reasonable. But sure they could try it out with 2-3 at first, and if that is not enough increase the number... But 8-9 traps on hand is a bit of a stretch.
-
@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279933#Comment_3279933
If he wants to throw the whole game doing that to maybe get 1 person, he can be my guest. Still should be a thing for those of us who want to play Trapper, not trap pick-up simulator. Otz has been in the game a long time, but he's not exactly down to earth, nor is he always right.
That does not throw the game my man ^^ Picture the exit gate at lerys with those 4 small wall structures in the building, if you trap all of them and have a survivor on the other side what can he do, besides taking a hit and leaving before you place all traps. I don't necessarily think that is throwing if this enables people to do that. I agree to some degree with that, especially how hard some things are for newer players is something you cannot know anymore when playing the game for so long, but in general I think he has a good grip of balance changes, even though sometimes I don't agree with him at all.
-
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286276#Comment_3286276
I disagree. You usually want one person healed anyway - to be able to go unhook from basement, work on gen in dead zone etc (I already wrote that above). Also thana slows down multiple things. E.g. sabotaging against thana is considerably harder, as you need to start sabotages sooner - so killer can see you sooner and change direction sooner which means he will probably make it to next hook. Another thing if you can keep multiple people injured, then thana + regression is actually better then double regression - these 2 things multiply each other and it's harder for survivor to rush that gen before killer can apply any regression.
I think you underestimate the perk on those 2 killers. The only thing is, that sure enough 6% regression is nothing and if you can't keep 4 injured, the perk is useless. But 20% is quite considerable slowdown and nothing to laugh at.
I can understand it somewhat on Plague, since to cleanse they need to give you your power, but on Legion... If you get that many hits in a row people are already playing it wrong by not being spread wide enough... And otherwise it is not too hard delay it.
-
@barsw said:
What they did to him was normal when people start to abuse and play each match as overpowered killer it must be punished if they dont understand the same must happen to nurse .I hope more and more people will complain and devs will finally understand that they must cut her off
Insta Saw was dumb but crack billy was alright, people who actually knew what they were doing didn't run insta saw anyway. Also players that knew what to do made it hard for billy to hit them anyway. Billy was a pub stomper since he could whipe the floor with people that have no clue... But maybe instead of just demolishing killers when they get matched against people with no clue those people could just learn what you can do about a killer instead of constantly complaining while not following the most simple advice on what to do against the killer.
What they did to Billy was terrible, they removed most of his good addons left him with like 4-5 good/ok ones and only meme or useless addons besides it and introduced overheat which is a terrible mechanic in itself, most people agree that this was far too much. I would not even say insta saw was that overpowered, there is far more ridiculous stuff in this game as it is. I don't think any killer deserves what happened to Billy, basically nobody plays him anymore since he is high effort low outcome... The hardest to play killer in the game with a mid to low outcome... It is just sad.
You should never nerf something just because new players have no clue how to deal with it... Just give them better ingame tutorials or so, hire someone to give each killer like a 1 minute clip and voice overlay and what he can do in general and what to do about it, that already helps newer players a lot and does not destroy fun killers like Billy.
-
@LiveBritishReaction said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284293#Comment_3284293
I guess I can't make you stop putting faith in a movement speed as pathetic as 4.2 being the most uncounterable thing since Frank's Mix Tape, huh? It is hilariously easy to keep leagues of distance on a killer with 105 movement speed; you will not be securing any kills against smart people by trying to whittle them down with your W key at that speed. If a survivor is so close to you when you're making the choice to catch up like that that a vault can guarantee a blink hit then that is ENTIRELY on them. There is absolutely counterplay to what you're describing; the counterplay to that is "Don't let the 105 killer opting not to use her wallbanging teleport tool catch up to you, dingus."
I'm not saying it is strong or whatever, but I do think it limits survivors options and provides boring gameplay.
-
@Astrid said:
So, I've recently watched the new "1899" series on Netflix, and while I found it a bit overrated, I however loved the atmosphere and the visual effects.
Without spoilering anything, in the first few episodes when they explore the abandoned ship, Prometheus, I thought to myself: this could be a new DBD map! I would love the idea of running across dark corridors in an abandoned ship as a survivor, it would be so cool.
And for the new killer, how about a pirate-themed one? Like, a creepy, old sea wolf who sings a sea shanty/lullaby when nearby. I'm not sure what the power could be, but definitely something related to water (for example, a mini maelstrom that can trap a survivor in place for a brief duration? I also thought about a harpoon, but we already have the Deathslinger)
What do you guys think? :)
The problem is such a map might look cool, but it will have the same issues that any indoor map has... Small coridors that will be problematic against range killers, many different paths to go, so killers that need line of sight are in trouble, no way to see into the distance so no crows or scatchmarks for tracking... Indoor maps in general just have so many issues that makes them just not a good idea to implement in this game for gameplay reasons... They are just not fun to play on...
-
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3285153#Comment_3285153
PTS is huge thing, because it shaves off at most 6 seconds on gen when 2 people are on it. Also it can add much much more then just 6s - if someone still self cares (but sure enough - that's issue of nerfed self care. On the other hand sloppy does basically nothing against green medkit with extra speed).
Thana is really bad on everyone but legion and plague. On these 2, the perk is actually good (especially on plague).
Another thing is, that legion can very quickly put you to deep wound (+ addon to make deep wounds longer). Now add into it extended heal time and some situations where you just need to heal and your version of sloppy would be quite strong.
But overall I have to admit. The perk would become good on legion. It however would NOT become oppresive. Eruption is oppresive on soloQ. Sloppy would NOT be oppresive and not come even close to this.
I would not even call it good on those two, just because it is rather easy to not be injured on 4 people and the additional 14 % slowdown or what it is will just not be a thing that often, even against legion you could probably argue that taking the additional % slowdown would be a better call than to group up and heal, because it offers multiple hits to the Legion, but that depends on the situation I think.
-
@Alionis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286198#Comment_3286198
Back when Enduring still affected the DS stun, the devs promised that the stun timer would be reduced back down to 3 seconds, should they removed Enduring's ability to affect it. That is because DS only ever became 5 seconds in the first place because of that interaction. It took them years after nerfing Enduring's secondary effect to finally fulfill that promise.
5 seconds of DS with no means to mitigate it is too long.
But 3 seconds is just too little on the other side, nobody runs the perk anymore and even if they do it is mostly not a threat at all... Like I said, the stun is basically less than head-on because of the dropping animation and so on... I think the 5 seconds was ok.
Sometimes things start of as a bug but become a feature once you come to the conclusion it could actually be fine.
-
@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286147#Comment_3286147
If you're smart with your movement from the time you've gained from the stun, you get a 10s+ lead on the killer. 5 seconds is nearly double that, hence why it was nerfed.
The problem is the 3 seconds starts before you can start to run, so it is probably rather 2-2.5 seconds than 3... And those 10 s only apply if the killer does not have anything to catch you before: Demogorgons Shred, Nemesis Tentacle, Huntress Hatchet, Nurses Blink, Blights Rush and so on... Sure against an M1 Killer it is still ok but you need to keep in mind that the perk can only be used once Head on has the same stun duration as DS and can be used as often as you want. I just don't think once 3 seconds is adaquate.
-
Just revert it back to 5 seconds and it is fine again, 3 seconds is just riduclously low and making this change would be kind of annoying from a killer point of view since you don't even immediatly know if the person has Ds.
-
@Hornetsch said:
I'll get straight to the point because by now everyone is aware of how opressive an even decent nurse can be and how she consistently stays to the best killer overall.
My idea for how to "nerf" or ballance out her power and bring her closer to the level of the other killers is the following:
- Blinks need a condition to be available and token based. What I mean by this is that at the start of a trial nurse has eg. 6 blink "tokens". She still can only use 2 at a time but can only blink the amount of times she has blinks available. If the nurse has 0 tokens she should become an M1 killer, changing her speed to 4,6 m/s. However, she can gain 2 tokens by getting a successful basic attack, but only 1 token when hitting a successful blink attack. Whenever she has tokens her speed should revert back to 3,8 m/s
Good killers who can chain blinks regardless wouldn't be too affected by this, but it would make up for her insane map traversal and very strong anti loop. Nurses would need to decide wether or not to use the blinks for distance or for chase. Even when the nurse isn't that good and uses all of the starting blinks to find survivors or gets unlucky with hits, the repurcussion is just being an M1 killer.
Some visual aspects of nurse would need to be changed for this aswell, so that survivors could tell if the nurse has blinks available or not. Aswell as some add on tweaks and the like.
Thoughts?
So you cannot traverse the map without loosing your blinks and becoming an M1 killer?? That sounds terrible dude... Especially since you get slowed down to 3.8 (instead of 3.85 m/s at which nurse is currently at...) as soon as you have blink up... That's 20% . You would take ages to walk across the map for no good reason.
Basekit nurse does not have that good mobility overall, by one blinking she only moves at 4.2325 m/s on average... She does not have insane map traversal at all.
-
Assassin what??
-
@barsw said:
She is overpowered and a lot of people are playing her like it was with Billy in the past and if you are playing with randoms they are 0 against her
The changes done to Billy was the biggest disaster yet, so that comparison really lacks...
-
@FrostySeal said:
Wasn't the whole point of the map reworks to not only apply a fresh new coat of paint on maps that were very old but more importantly rebalance those maps to be fairer? So then why are BHVR continuing their awful trend of releasing god-awful maps that are just going to have to be reworked in the future? At first, the map reworks went really nicely with MacMillan, Ormond, Lery's (kinda), Yamaoka estate (kinda), and auto haven (kinda) but ever since then it's just been a spiral downwards of quality.
Most of the cold wind reworks failed to fix the fact that they were insanely survivor sided with the exception of Thompson's house, Disturbed Ward still continues to be a god-awful map while Father Campbells got turned from a mostly balanced map to a map that's either insanely survivor sided or killer sided, Haddonfield got turned into the worst map into a not-as-bad but still pretty awful map that is either a barren wasteland or the still pretty strong house loops, Badham is still fairly survivor sided although not as bad as it once used to be, Gideon Meat Plant is still an incredibly boring and unfun map for both sides, and RPD went from god awful to ever so slightly less awful.
I haven't even begun to talk about how awful the new maps are, like Eyrie of pallets, Garden of misery, and Shattered Sanity. Seriously why is BHVR releasing these maps in such a sorry state? What is the point of giving themselves more work down the road when they could instead take their time and ensure that a map is well-balanced for both sides?
I think Knight's map is probably the best one they made in a long time, just because the most annoying thing is that you cannot really see scratch marks... (If we ignore the current bug that spawns way too many pallets) And I don't even like the map in particular it is just not terrible to play on and that's enough for me to call it their best map in a long time XD
-
@realflashboss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3282192#Comment_3282192
No but for both its just bad design
I think for Nurse less than pyramid head, because at least her concept does not allow just deactivating the power and playing like a normal M1 killer p-head... It provoked loose loose situation at every loop: "puts sword down survivor either drops pallet and gets hit by power or does not drop pallet and gets hit by m1" that was just terrible xD At least Nurse does not have that option, but pyramid head at least got rid of that a bit, not entirely but he is not as unfair as he used to be.
-
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284910#Comment_3284910
Oh but you are wrong. You mostly don't heal against legion, but there sure are situations when it's required - and they are not even super rare.
1, thanatophobia - you always want to have 1 survivor healthy. Preferably the one with most hook states.
2, there's a gen in the open that needs to be done (e.g. to prevent 3gen). If you are healthy, legion will need to use his power giving you time to get to loopable area
3, someone is in a basement or on a hill. Sure enough, if you go there healthy, you will be injured quickly. But you will have enough time to unhook. If you go there injured, you will just be downed without helping anyone.
Yeah sure there are points when you want to heal against legion but they are quite rare compared to other killers... When playing against a Wraith or Myers or Ghostface you want to be healed because they can sneak up on you, Legion cannot, so while you get value on basically every injure against those guys you will get value on legion not that often, especially against legion people spread out naturally to not give him multiple hits. Nobody runs thana these days... And even if you would only need to keep one person healthy, and sloppy only adds like 4 or 5 seconds to the heal, that's really not that much to take sloppy on legion, and like I said before Legion already has an addon the "defaced smiley pin" that will give you mangled which increases the heal time when you mend yourself, and you will mostly mend yourself... So even if it worked on legion you would not run it regardless since there are far better perks...
There are perks that are far more reasonable to run on legion, so once again how am I wrong there? Yes there are points where you may need to heal to guarantee a succesfull unhook, but the perk would not be good on him regardless, especially since there is an addon that has the same effect. If sloppy would work on his frenzy hits I still don't think it would provide enough value to be worth it.
-
@espooked said:
theres literally new killers and people will only play her. change this
Wesker had a 25% pick rate, what do you mean people only play her? xD
-
The point is making those two perks usable on special attacks would probably not buff a single killer, because stronger perks exists, if you want to run the strongest possible build you will not run sloppy and jolt you will run corrupt, deadlock, eruption, call of brine/NOED or something like this... Why would you run sloppy or jolt? Because you like not having to kick gens and don't like perks that are too opressive maybe, so why not make it possible?
-
@Sharpefern said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284849#Comment_3284849
Agree with the Jolt one its strong as is and to implement that it would need to reinstate a cooldown which would essentially just be debuffing M1 killers.
In addition lets look at those killers with special attacks for sloppy
Hillbilly/Bubba/Oni - is a 1 shot down so if you want these status conditions run Gift of Pain and get them on hook + added bonus when they do get healed
Huntress - has begrimed head
Plague - Laughs in broken
Legion - has defaced smiley pin and joeys mixed tape - if anything just combine these add ons change it to purple and move BFFs to green or yellow and give him another add-on
Wesker - already requires healing and disinfecting, revealing your location to not suffer a fate way worse than sloppos
Artist - Thorny nest
Twins- has rusty needle - could add mangled
Pyramid head - has CC book which could get updated to include mangles since pheads add-ons are trash anyway
Death Slinger- has 2 add-ons that inflict mangled given that he will also inflict deep wound it really doesnt need the buff of survivors breaking free ALSO having hem
So the people this would benefit would be Trickster, Demo Nemi, Pig and Blight. Blight doesnt need his rushes to be buffed and both Trickster Demo and Nemi have add ons that noone uses or have multiple levels of the same effect that could be reworked to inflict this. And Pig does have add ons just that require the bear trap if concerned for her ambush they could just alter those.
All in all the reason why these perks are specific to basic, not special attacks are because special attacks are inherently stronger and have their own specialties to go with them. The killer that would be getting the buff from this change is basically just blight in addition to rendering many add on without real value.
I agree that it would render many addons useless, but let's be honest those addons are boring to begin with, they could have come up with something more interesting to add than give 10 killers the same addons that give a status effect to the survivor... And nobody runs those addons anyway as it is... So I don't know :/ I just think it would be nice for perk variety to not exclude those killers and let's be honest those perks are good/okay but they not eruption deadlock level of good... So every killer that would run those perks should be greeted with open arms as far as I'm concerned.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284661#Comment_3284661
I won't name the dev but the reason why Jolt does not work on special attacks is in fear of trapper with honing stone being too strong. that was the explanation from dev's. As for sloppy butcher, I think explanation was Legion being too oppressive with feral frenzy for the survivors so his feral frenzy had to be turned into special attack instead of basic attack.
The weakest killer in the game being too strong? XD ok I guess ^^ But with Legion you are already playing wrong if you heal against him no matter if he has that or not and also he has addons that apply it s how can this be an argument at this point... I mean it used to be one I guess, but not anymore I think.
-
@Rulebreaker said:
That bout sums up our thoughts now the question is why would they want that.
Well, I'm currently trying to figure out the thought process as well ^^
-
They are good perks for sure, but they don't really get used (that much) and I think they would be healther than for example eruption.
-
The problem is as long as a killer offers counterplay and chase interaction they can be really strong, if they however do not have that, then it is a problem since you cannot apply your skill as a survivor in chase to prolong the hit you will eventually take.
-
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284643#Comment_3284643
So we are hearing you (or the other person) are advocating removing one of the counterplay elements?
He wants to turn nurse into a 4.2 m/s killer with only one blink, which would make the nurse weaker because she could not use the 2nd blink to correct if she was too far off with the first one, but also remove the line of sight breaking counterplay to some degree because now she can chase you by just running.
-
And the Knight, not that firm with his addons so I forgot about him.
-
@R1ch4rd_N1x0n said:
Surge sure. Sloppy Butcher no. There are Add-ons to make your power inflict Hemorrhage and Mangled.
On some, but not on all Killers, as far as I know, and they barely get used but if it is a perk someone might use sloppy over a stronger slowdown perk and if not the change does not matter anyway so why oppose it.
I know that huntress has one (it is purple), Wraith has a green one but he is already a basic killer so it does not matter much, and Bubba has a green one that only applies mangled, Trapper has two one for each effect, but is already a basic killer so it does not really matter, Legion has at least two but you should basically never heal against legion anyway, Deathslinger has a mangled one but is already a basic killer in the sense of using this perk anyway.
So as far as I know those are all, correct me if I'm wrong... Out of those Killers only Huntress and Bubba would need to go out of their way to apply sloppy butcher... And the other ones can already use it if they wanted to.
-
@versacefeng said:
No.
Why?
-
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284498#Comment_3284498
We apologize if we're missing something or are incorrect as we didn't examine the full conversation between you 2. (Hard to do on phone)
Isn't that risk the point of nurse though? You ignore almost everything at the risk of needing to land blinks. Having a garunteed way to chase while also having the mobility to ignore things like walls and floors saving tons of time on certain maps seems like a disaster for survivors.
That risk is the only reason there is counterplay for her... Because on one hand she needs to use the blink to catch up and on the other hand she may not blink accurately and even loose more distance that way... That's the reason line of sight blocking works against nurse. If she can just follow normally she can avoid many situations where the survivor could use it to his advantage.
-
@LapisInfernalis said:
1. Blink Attacks = Special attacks - > removes boring Starstruck+ Agitation+AA plays, no Jolt value on top of eruption etc, no sloppy butcher; they are not needed on this strong killer.
2. Rework addons that improve distance and recharge. They are not needed and are more a balance issue than anything else.
3. Make it easier to lightburn her. - > Many players don't even know this is a thing.....
4. (this is experimental) Remove lunge attacks when blinking. Wesker can't lunge after his dash. I would like to see how good Nurse still is without her spaghetti arms.
Jolt and sloppy are on the weaker side of slowdown perks, I don't really see a reason to get rid of them for her, but sure call if brine eruption is far better on her... Maybe let the few Nurses that run them keep these perks because otherwise they might use the meta stuff...
Recharge is not really an issue, range probably is..
The issue with light burn on her is the duration... If she gets burned faster you can burn her more often with a flashlight, but otherwise people won't get it done often... Seems like a loose loose situation to me... (does it take the same duration as wraith to get burned btw?)
I mean... Wesker can hit you while on the path towards you, same as Blight during rushes (he also has a lunge attack) and Nurse cannot since she teleports, I don't like the idea since you would need to be waaaay too precise with blinks which is pretty rough, without the lunge even God nurses would have issues hitting many blinks (in addition to aim dressing making people hit walls regardless)
-
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284293#Comment_3284293
Outa curiosity, how long do you think it would take to "dumb follow" a survivor this way? What with survivors running for the walls as soon as they so much as think they hear a beat?
From the point of entering chase even when in a high wall structure 45-60 seconds most for a down...
The problem with the situation you mention is the variables in it... At which point of the map is the survivor, so what ways can the killer reasonably come from, are there line of sight blockers or can you see the killer coming towards and therefore run away... If you used your blink in this case from barely outside the terroradius starting the blink at 33m away from the survivor,you travel 20 m in 1.5 seconds, go into 2 seconds of fatigue and can then follow normally or blink after an additional second... The survivor notices your heartbeat 0.5 seconds after the blink started and runs away in a straight line.(all that given for the sake of the example) you are around 20 m closer to the survivors original position so 13m away but during your travel time he already moved 4 m so 17 m of distance. The issue at this point is that it makes barely any difference if you just float after then with 4.2 m/s or blink with on average 4.23... M/s. Of course you are not trying to M1 but get in a position from where you can blink into and hit them given you re in the open and so on.
But I ofc agree that it would take longer if you had walk from outside the terror radius and hereby giving the survivor a huge heads tart... But then again most people don't exactly know when their heartbeat will reach the survivor so they are less efficient with this than in my example.
The problem also applies to basic M1 killers with 4.6m/s since they don't have a way to get this close to the survivor with lout them realizing it. And the issue is that when you try that even as 4.6m/s killer and the survivor pre runs immediately once you are 32 m away you need to change the target... Because this chase would loose you the game, unless they are running towards a dead and or the corner of the map. Closing a distance of 30 m with 60cm/s takes 50 seconds, there will be 3 Gens done before you get the down if you take this chase.
The problem for nurse with 4.2 floating and 4.23 blinking is that when you are not at a point when you can reach the survivor with your blink it does not matter if you walk or blink because it will be roughly the same time to close the distance... The risk of miss blinking in an open space without line of sight blockers, even though your blink might kot get through some objects loosing you valuable meter, is lower than when the survivor has reached a line of sight blocker and you would have to guess where he went... You may be able to get closer to him when blinking, but if he only made a slight adjustment to his patching to get barely out of sight then you gained 30 centimeters or so if you succeeded with the blink whereas if you don't blink correctly you might give them more distance. That's why I said just following is the more reliable thing to do since there is basically no chance of giving them more distance if you walk the same path as them. When you reach the distance from which you can blink onto them this changes to some degree... But until then dumb following seems the safer thing to do.
When you are inside a high wall structure and only a few m away from the survivor on the other side of a wall a small glimpse of them is enough to get the hit, and they cannot really effectively break line of sight since you are still faster than them and don't have to rely on blinks to reach a critical distance.
-
The perk changes are ridulous... Map wide aura reading for 60 seconds each time you hit down or hook someone?? This is one of the most broken things I've seen in awhile... This makes any other aura reading perk completely obsolete...
60 seconds exposed for each pallet stun is also waaaay too much...
As for the killer changes I think they are too complicated... The movement speeds are mostly too slow so they will never catch up but disable survivors for the match...i mean they jailor can never catch u but since he is there all game long you are almost playing a 3v1.. I like the idea of carnifexs chains but since he does not catch up to survivors I don't know what it would do...
The burn the witch thing is hilarious, completely unbalanced, but I find it funny that just Mikaela gets f*d for no reason other than being a red head xD Come on man... Disney production already delete all red heads, do you want them to also disappear from this game? Imagine that thing taking hair colour into account for seeing them as witch and everybody with red hairs just gets moried xD
-
@LiveBritishReaction said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283989#Comment_3283989
That's a whole essay for an argument that grossly oversimplifies a whole lot of map design and how the movement mechanics of Nurse's blinks even work. You really think W keying after a survivor as a 105 killer is that foolproof when even 115 killers aren't able to reliably pull that off against competent survivors?
You start chasing after a survivor. He vaults one safe window. That alone will add like 10 seconds minimum to your W key catchup time as a killer with normal movement speed, let alone someone who takes 3 times longer to catch up. You cannot catch up to a survivor as a 105 killer if a safe window or pallet so much as exists.
You don't need to catch up to hit them, you just need make them vault a window or pallet or drop a pallet because then you can safely blink hit them... And even you are at a long wall and the survivor goes left and right depending on the position you go you can now safely blink hit them... That's the whole point... You are generally able to just dumb follow until they vault something and then you can go for the blink while they are in animation and get the hit... There is not much predicting in that case
-
You don't say ^^
-
@LiveBritishReaction said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283964#Comment_3283964
Again, the difference between a 105 killer that goes through walls and a 105 killer that doesn't go through walls is literally a game-changing difference. Around tiles. Through main buildings. Between floors. Nurse catches up to survivors insanely easily now because she goes through walls.
For someone who perpetuates this idea that they understand Nurse really well you are consistently failing to take into account the thing that makes Nurse Nurse. Try to catch up to a competent survivor with your blinks and then do the same thing with Matchbox equipped without blinking. Let me know how it goes (spoiler: You will never catch up to the survivor as Matchbox Nurse).
When you are out of blink range (to hit the survivor) and the survivor does not need to go around many things, there is only a minor difference between running in a straight line and rounding some corner, when you are going through the floors you didn't really start chase with a person yet so they cannot really start running away from you effectively also most maps don't have a second floor and out of the ones that do The Game and Midwich are consideres some of nurses best maps for that and other reasons, apparently, I don't like those two as nurse but I'm not as experienced as other people with her so I'll just go with their opinion for this. When you just look at how Nurse currently goes after survivors without addons you will notice she is actually not that fast, especially on maps with wide areas where you can see her coming. She also can catch up quickly because she can get in a position to get a hit while being rather far away, at least in an open field, when there are high tiles around you might want to get closer. My point has been when normally traversing the map it will often times be just as fast to walk, as long as there are no major elements blocking your path or elevation or whatever... That alone is quite a buff...
Catching up in that sense means getting in a position where you have line of sight to blink, it really does not take much to get into such a position. Most tiles are not high enough to block properly and using only trees or rocks won't really do much since you can just follow and those rock loops usually have a side from which you can see the survivor. As for high wall structures as soon as you get 15 seconds of chase you can run after them like a huntress, yeah it takes some time if you wanna have it easy and without much thinking but at this point, if not already before you can get into a position to hit them with or without a blink. That is my whole point at some point you will be in a position where you will get a hit regardless of what the survivor does... Of course you will catch even a competent survivor eventually just because you can just run after their scratchmarks without any down side besides it takes some time. It is stupid strategy with 0 stuff you can do about it but you will get your hit after a certain amount of time regardless of what the other side does, and that is just terrible design.
Also you're kind of twisting it here. It is not about catching up without your blinks at all, it is about catching up in a structure where you don't have line of sight to the survivor like a high wall jungle gym or something like that. In an open field sure use the blink if you want to, doesn't safe you much time, maybe even slower than walking but whatever, but when you are in that position that a chase started and you are in a structure that usually gives you the option to break line of sight and use unique pathing you now don't have that option anymore, since the nurse could just follow after you and gain distance, yes it will take some time but who cares it still is boring to do (same problem as legion games... Takes ages and is annoying and even if you manage to win it mostly is not even fun..).
We can try that out in a custom game if you are that confident, I'm a bit rusty with nurse since I don't play (her/the game in general) that often these days, but I should be fine with bloodlust and forcing you into a loose loose situation.
Also the thing that makes her Nurse is her dependance on using her blinks to traverse the map because she cannot catch up otherwise which enables the counter play of breaking line of sight, if she can catch up without blinks that's just not the case anymore. Can you possibly give and example of what counterplay against your nurse would look like? What are the effective things you can do? Because for me it just sounds like a floating legion in a dress with a bonesaw... Eventually you will get hit.
-
@LiveBritishReaction said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283887#Comment_3283887
First and foremost... can you stop... typing... like this... it makes your sentences... borderline illegible... I won't... reply... if you keep... typing like... you're mimicking the speech patterns of Stephen Hawking...
Secondly, yes, you are overestimating the movement speed. If the survivor has any distance of any kind on a killer who moves 5% faster than they do, it is going to take eons for them to catch up. A Nurse who is unwilling to use her blinks to go for riskier hits will get looped for decades. They just will. It's not even something to dispute.
Also, I can guarantee that being able to keep a Nurse on you for 18 generators because she's putting way too much faith in her 105% movement speed is a hundred times more fun than the current Nurse gameplay loop of "I die in 5 seconds because she knows how to press M2."
That's kind of offensive comparing it to a person with a serious disease ... I mean I don't care personally for offensive stuff but you may or may not know that this kind of thing is not liked by BHVR and so on, so you might want to not do that anymore, but as I said, I could not care less about it.
She already does move at 4.2 m/s while blinking so how is this any different? When the survivor has some distance on you he has no reason to already go for the next high wall tile and wait there for you to catch up after some time. Like I said, it takes 15 seconds to gain bloodlust 1 making you move at 110% ms at this point you can totally loop like any other killer... And it should be fairly easy to get in range to start a chase, unless of course they are prerunning like crazy, but then again nothing changes from how it currently is, only that you gain additional mobility because you can just walk and don't need to blink to go around the map, unless of course you want to go through structures, I don't think it saves you that much time to blink through jungle gyms and so on instead of going the 1-2 m around it.
The current nurse gameplay is one of the most entertaining things for me, break line of sights juked around corner and so on, I think it is one of the best things in the game. Whereas you're not really doing anything but running in circles until she catches up with no skill involved, does not sound fun to me tbh. I would even go as far and say a down within less than a minute after entering chase with no interaction on the survivor side to prevent it is that likeable that I'm willing to try it out in a private lobby.
-
@Sharpefern said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283784#Comment_3283784
It says if you go are in an injured state you go into deep wound
You didn't understand the question I guess... 1 for 1 ... You get downed and the other one gets unhooked... You basically go down right after the unhook animation or maybe even in the middle of it but the unhook still finishes... Now you are on the floor and the unhooked survivor does not have Bt... How does it work now? Does the other person basically get BT again or do they just go down with the next hit?
-
@LiveBritishReaction said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281686#Comment_3281686
Here's the problem with that: The difference between blinking after someone to catch up and W keying after them to catch up is that blinks go through walls.
You seem to just be completely glossing over that huge difference there. A 105 Nurse who's just floating on after you cares about the existence of physical objects. Blinks do not. The difference between having to walk around stuff and NOT having to walk around stuff is huge in terms of catching up to people at loops, around tiles, in or across main buildings, etc.
And, again, you are VASTLY overestimating how fast 105 is. Most killers are 115. Some are 110. The only 105 killer in the game is tier 1 Myers, and he is pathetic at catching up to people. The "safe" way to play Nurse you are describing is extremely inefficient and if you want to get more than 1 kill per match you're gonna have to learn to land blinks at range.
The point is it would be still more time efficient to just walk follow because of the large margin of error since you don't have a second blink to correct... Having a second blink is what makes it possible to go for blinks out of side and still be able to hit them properly...
When I said catching up what I meant was just running after them until in blink range... or at a tile where you then might start using blink... While the survivor is still out of your reach and just holds the w key... At that point there is really no need to blink... you must realise that the difference when you blink exactly on top of them to when you just stupid follow in a line is like 3-4 cm gain... wow... And blinks always have the possibility to fail... A blink deadzone, a tile with a larger hitbox than you assumed that cuts your blink short and so on... and in all these situations you will loose distance by doing something else than just following... And when you succeed the gain is so minimal that it's not worth the risk... But then again at loops with high walls and so on you can try to break line of sight and do a smart play but if the nurse just wants to play it safe she will just run after you normally and not blink until she gets a safe one because again with only having one blink it is rather risky to guess for a blink because you cannot correct it... Also who cares if she gets only 1 kill or whatever... The gameplay becomes just boring... Original legion was also not really strong just really stupid and boring to go against, he was just going to hit you eventually... Same goes for that variation of nurse...
I'm not overestimating the movementspeed... I'm not saying you should just try to catch up until you can hit without blinking.. But when you imagine most tiles with high walls like jungle gyms or shack... You will notice they are rather large... Jungle Gyms are somewhat above 10 m long... And you only need somewhat clear line of sight for like 1-1.5 seconds to charge the blink and blink right onto the survivor... And until then you can just dumb follow because it would be way riskier to constantly miss... And while you might be able to leave the tile if you made a nurse missblink with this she will not loose distance even with blink on cooldown, so good luck reaching another tile that provides los block... Because usually they are not that linked to each other...
In the end it is not about efficiency... But about the interaction with the killer in a skillfull way... And when you are playing against a killer that just follows you for some time and eventually gets the down than that's just terribly boring to go against... I think old legion with the 2-3 times stabbing until you went down took like at least 50-60 seconds for the down unless the survivor took bad pathing... and there was basically not much to do... This is somewhat similar, yeah it might not be efficient but it will eventually lead to a down without much interaction and that's why I find it totally boring and a bad idea... Line of sight is basically her only counterplay and effective because she cannot just dumb follow... If she no longer needs to blink to catch up then this is just the easiest thing to do... It might not be the most efficient but who cares about that...
Overall there will always be strong killers in the game that completely destroy weaker players when properly played but as Nurses basekit currently is she has something you can do about her... But if you change her like you want it to that counterplay just stops existing if the nurse wants to... Yeah nurse can take the risk and try for a blink or she can use the boring but reliable method of just following... What are most players probably gonna do?
It would be a shame if one the few killers with unique counterplay just stopped existing...
Also what we didn't even talk about until now... Myers in T1 cannot gain bloodlust... Nurse can... so you're gonna get a hit after 25 seconds ... that's when bloodlust 2 kicks in I believe so she moves at 112.5 % and is fast enough to make them have to use either pallet or window and can then just get a hit... I think blinking counts as an action that prevents bloodlust... So again what do you think most people will do? Wait for 25-40 seconds for a guaranteed hit or take the risk to maybe get it earlier with a big chance to fail at doing so...
-
@Villain_on_pc said:
Remember when you would queue into a match not knowing what you were going to play against? It created this fun environment of unexpected scenarios/playstyles. The current meta and the release of these terribly designed killers that limit options and encourage players to pre drop and hold W has created this situation were almost every game feels identical. Every survivor pre drops and holds W now even against very loopable killers. Now before you call me a salty killer main first of all most my hours are dumped into surv but I just don't understand, what happened to looping? It feels like everyone is constantly going for the "OpTiMaL sTrAtEgY" and this includes killers. Camping and tunneling has gotten increasingly more popular which has further encouraged survivors to adopt this boring hold W and pre drop playstyle. Every killer game feels like I go against the same 2 or 3 playstyles while playing against killers is more 50/50 whether they play boring or not it seems. A lot of anti-options killers: Slinger, nemy, artist, pyramid head, dredge, knight being the worst offender etc. need some changes to make the gameplay more engaging and not the same "leave the loop and die away from your team" playstyle every single time. For a dev team that regularly recognizes that their playerbase is mostly made of survivor they sure enjoy putting killers in the game that make survivor feel miserable and optionless and I just don't understand.
I play this game for almost 4 years now and it basically was always about expecting meta perks... I almost never get surprised by someone running the most off meta build... So if you had that time, sounds great, but I did not really experience that.
-
@Sharpefern said:
Okay so heres my thought. Remove basekit endurance and replace it with Entital Link
Entital Link occurs when unhooking a hooked survivor. For 10 seconds you suffer the damage inflicted on the unhooked survivor. If you are healthy and they would be injured you become injured instead, If you are injured you are placed in deep wound. During Entital Link the unhooked survivor has 10% haste.
Borrowed time- Extends Entital link by 10 seconds. Once per unhook when Entital link would put you in the injured state instead you are incapacitated for the rest of Entital Link.
So the reason I like this idea is it provides essentially the same safety anti-tunnel of the Base Kit Endurance but removes the urge for the survivor to body block as it would not be not be effective, unless they have borrowed time.
What happens if the guy that unhooked did a 1 for 1 and cannot take the damaging state anymore?
-
Imagine the proximity chat also works for the killer... And you can just talk to the bubba who is currently facecamping you, that would be great :D:D Now I finally have something to do while I stay on hook for 2 minutes :D