Archol123
Archol123
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289523#Comment_3289523
Clown bottles are different. They stretch and rotate screen too. I can fully understand why people get dizzy. Making the screen blurry would be like watching film and camera without mooving shows you specific part of scene (by blurrying everything else). But in this case, not just part of your screen would be blurred. I am not sure, but I presume such an effect would actually not make anyone dizzy.
Anyway, I don't know if such an effect would be good for game. I think spirit has probably better animation for it (there's a functional difference as spirit sees environment in full detail, but that could be ok).
Overall I think nurse does not need to be redesigned like OP suggested. All she needs is 2nd blink be special attack + nerf addons (specifically range and recharge)
I would not assume that, I looked at it for a few seconds and it already become unpleasant... Why introduce a mechanic that makes it annoying to use the killers power...
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289351#Comment_3289351
Agree on the first point (which could/should suffice as full solution. Do the hatch at strictly 2 players where 1 is downed).
But if first point is not enough, then about the second thing - I just want to have same percentage between last camped person vs last escaping person. How can one be too easy and not get the result of the other one that is ok and not free? I see discrepancy. If 15s as specific number is too much in your opinion, I can acknowledge that and ask for different number. But if it's systematic and killer just deserves 1k "no matter what" and survivor should instead have a roll of dice, then this does not look fair to me. Make the chances the same. So make last escaping a little easier or securing last kill a little harder. Overall I want fair balanced game results between different teams.
I mean you can get a 4 man out against most killers with bodyblocking and if the survivor is not hooked on the opposite side of the map... But this depends on the skill of the players, the killer and the map rng... Whereas the hatch play is basically pure rng...
It is not necessarily about being easy but rather if it requires skill to pull off. The further the game progresses the stronger the killer becomes (due to the map becoming barren and the area he needs to patrol getting smaller, so given that concept of the game it is kind of fine that getting the fourth guy out from getting camped requires more skill from the survivors than from the killer... But that also somewhat contradicts that the hatch situation is in favor of the survivor again... Even when you are tunneling someone out in the most blatant way at least you need to use your skill to chase them down, I think it is really boring to do... But when you are both looking for the hatch it is just rng heavy...
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But there are other examples:
I love azarovs is larger than blood lodge despite being really killer sided xD
So despite being large shelter woods is still a good killer map because it is not loaded with stuff, and if they fix the pallet spawn on Borgo I think it could also be an alright map, still better than every map they made in the last like 2 years or so...
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289516#Comment_3289516
Well Blood Lodge is a 3-1-3 map, so u stay at one side as killer anyway.
On the new one, there is no "3-Gen".
Are you sure you're not confusing it with azarovs resting place?
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At least pyramid heads power has some time it takes for it to reach the end, so you can dodge it to some degree. But Nemesis whip is basically instant in the point you press the button. If you make a suggestion for something else that could be used to avoid getting hit in some way or form that gives it some form of counterplay then I'm sure we can come to an agreement...
Also I would like to say that hitting people through walls is ignoring gameplay mechanics which is the reason why people hate nurse, yeah sure it is not the same thing but at least somewaht similar.
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@Blueberry said:
Infection needs to actually mean something.
Extra zombies aren't going to happen, they've already stated this. The best alternative route is trying to make those 2 we have, much better.
Firstly just at base kit, zombies need to move faster, have a larger detection radius and field of view. They also need to improve their AI detection. I shouldn't be able to work on a gen with the zombie on the opposite side and he have no idea, just silly.
- Per infected survivor zombies move 25% faster, gain increased field of view and detection radius
- Tentacle hits for infection shouldn't give a speed boost to the survivor
- Crouching shouldn't prevent getting hit by the tentacle. This is just stupid and shouldn't never existed in the first place.
- Cases should take longer to open and vaccines take longer to use
I actually think it is kind of fair that crouching can prevent a hit, because what else are you supposed to do? There is really not much you can do to prevent getting hit with it... I like the one about making zombies faster, maybe they will be more usefull then...
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@NightBlade said:
Hey, I would like to suggest some changes that I believe should be done to the nurse's power, and for these suggestions, I will create a list format for the areas I am discussing to make what I am typing more clear and easier to read but first, I shall leave a video for you the grasp the idea of the changes I feel should be made - please note this is only an example.
*please excuse the build, I wanted to try one that Otz suggested on his build page*
Changes to Nurse's Power:
-While activating her power, the screen will become blurry and an audible heartbeat/breathing will begin. This will help you understand where the survivor is, so the further the breathing and heartbeat are, the further they are away from you. If they are multiple survivors near you, you will also be able to hear their heartbeat/breathing but the sound will not be played at the same time to help prevent any confusion.
-Scratch marks and aura reading ability will no longer be activated while using her power (just like Spirit). This is because her power allows you to travel through walls and follow rules that other killers can't, so having the ability to see a player's aura; especially with the brand new perk that allows you to see a survivor's aura when kicking a generator - this perk alone makes it very hard for survivors, especially those who are soloq. I am 50/50 on scratch marks but this could likely be swapped with the ability to hear the survivor's heartbeat/breathing.
Other than that, I don't think there are many changes needed, though I'd likely be wrong so please feel free to leave a comment below.
Why I'm I suggesting this?
Firstly, I feel the effect of using her power is underwhelming as it's just a simple animation, especially compared to spirit. As I also strongly feel the Nurse shouldn't be able to see auras, I think that being able to hear a survivor's breathing/heartbeat makes up for it, as you can pinpoint where they are on the map. The Nurse also can't see as her entire head is mainly covered by cloth, though it'd likely be unfair to make her version blurry the entire game, so I feel this should only be done when using her power but it won't fully stop you from seeing the survivor as it's only an effect. If the survivor does try to hide, you'll be able to hear their breathing to see where they are (lockers are excluded) - think of this like the movie Don't Breath. Other than that, I just think this would be a really cool change for the nurse. Also, what's likely to be nerfed? The Nurse or Perks? This is why I feel like she shouldn't be able to see auras while using her power.
Please feel free to share your thoughts below, and thank you for reading!
Kindest Regards
-NB
As someone said beforethe blurry thing is just annoying as hell, and people already do not like that clown bottles have that effect on survivors, so I don't think adding it for a killer is a good idea either...
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Yeah I was just gonna say it is larger than many maps, but it is the same size as blood lodge, which is not a map that gets complained about often because of its size...
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So let me get this straight, you not only want to trade generators for a different time investment at which all perks apply and that also needs to be somewhat balanced around everything else in the game you want different things that all serve that same purpose? You basically want several new games... The effort this would take them XD
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289212#Comment_3289212
so if it does not cancel out, then there's a place for a survivor buff in this specific aspect. The easiest one would be to make opening gates take less time (say 15s). What I would actually like to see is spawning (opened) hatch when last survivor is standing (meaning slugging for 4K is no longer an option).
Would you say that under these conditions 50% would be fair? (if we keep the current state of game)
But sure - changing the endgame to be more skill based instead of luck based would feel better. So long as it's overall balanced toward 50% killrate as a target
I really don't like slugging for the 4k but if you make it like that then some adepts would be really annoying and the hatch play would be even more rng... And ofc it would need to work with only 2 suevs left because otherwise you can get 4 people out with 5 Gens against legion... Just get all into mending, use a hatch offering 3 go down near it due to mending and the last standing activates hatch open and ez game.
In the normal game 15 second gate time is fine, but in the last man standing situation I don't like it because this is already survivor aided and that would make waiting at an exit gate for the hatch to get kicked even easier...
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@RavenBirb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288335#Comment_3288335
I agree but then i thought of....wait for it.
DIFFERENT TYPES OF TRIALS PER MATCH
????
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289150#Comment_3289150
so you agree that camping single survivor endgame cancels out with escaping as last via hatch or gate. Cool. So now that that's out of the way... Why should 60% kill rate be fair?
Not necessarily that but you can also count the tunneling one survivor out immmediatly in that category...
I would say it cancels it out so some degree, but not entirely, and that's why in the end it should be above 50%... Having it somewhat in the middle between 2 and 3 K on average... Also when you are tunneling someone out or camp one guy during endgame at least you are chasing someone and the person can try to avoid getting downed... Unless ofc they are in a complete dead zone... Getting out with hatch or gate as last survivor has far more RNG I think...
If hatch and the tunneling endgame camping one person scenarios would be removed entirely we could look at those cleaned numbers and the evaluate on what we currently are and what has to be done... But as it is now I think 55-60% is quite balanced, considering what type of game we have here.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289094#Comment_3289094
Ok I will repeat myself. If 1k is easy and there are good reasons for it, then 1e should be just as easy (and for the same reasons). Canceling both "easy" effects out.
I didn't necessarily say that there are good reasons for it to be easy, but more you would need to change a lot about the game for it to not be easy...
As for the canceling it out getting the hatch or gate as the last survivor is fairly easy depending on the map maybe even free... If you are on the game and just wait at one gate for the killer to kick the hatch you are safely out most of times, if the killer does not have special mobility. There are some maps where this works really consistently. The same thing apply when the gates are really far apart and cannot be seen from some point in the middle of the map, this also makes it fairly easy to get out, maybe if you want to be safe just 20% it and then after the killer left again finish it... If the situation does not favor you in that way you still have almost the same chance as the killer to find the hact, if he hits you while looking for it even better, because of the speed boost you can cover more of the map, the best thing in these cases is mostly to just follow the survivor and close hact in front of their nose.
Overall the situation favors the survivor by a whole lot (unless you are a killer with really high mobility, and even then depending on map size and other factor you still might be at a disadvantage.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289079#Comment_3289079
1-2% is normal, but NOT goal. The problem is, that devs TARGET 60%
So what, it does not seem like it is possible to make it better than those 1-2%...so what does the goal matter if they cannot reach it... The debs target is 10% more because of reasons specifically of this game... Because 1k is rather easy to get... If you tunnel someone out you will almost guaranteed have 1 K... I don't know how to avoid this if you don't want to share hook states between all survivors.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288908#Comment_3288908
In comp both sides are limited. Like nurse can't bring starstruck and such. Comp is specifically tailored to be a different game altogether. Also there's a huge difference between soloQ (which is one of the largest part of players) and comp players. Are you really willing to throw this player base overboard and just make them autoloose or DC?
I think ideally all parts of the game should be balanced so that every killer/survivor/etc have fair chance to play (sure there can be a few examples with simple killers for learning the game).
If you have a player that is so skilled he just wins every game because he is that much better than the guys he gets matched against then why is this anything else but a problem with bad matchmaking? If you let Serral play against some Diamond player he will get an almost indefinite win streak just because of the skill difference between those people and in Starcraft with proper matchmaking this would not happen, but it does in DBD... And that's the reason such winstreaks exist... If Alf only played against Hens and his friends or players of similar skill the matches would be rather even but since comp squads and comp killer players are so rare in this game the matchmaking is unable to match them with each other and this creates those scenarios...
The problem with creating a fair game is that changes apply to all MMR high mid or low skilled does not matter... Average skilled nurses are not that much of a problem for average skilled players... Comp Nurses are not a problem for comp players (generally speaking) but since those are not the matchups you get there is just no way to properly balance this :/
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@ProveKa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288908#Comment_3288908
Again, you were cunning and only tried to understand or not understand what you wanted.It's not just matchmaking.Not accepting the nurse's power.
What else does the video you posted show otherwise dude? There was a 200 win streak on twins, the same probably goes for Blight and Spirit, those two are almost as strong as Nurse... In comp we can see that Nurse does not always win against equally skilled players, perk and item restriction limit both sides, even though I would say survivors get limited more. But in the end even when really skilled players go against Alf they most likely won't bring 4 BNP and strong toolboxes and so on 1. They know they could with high chance win by bringing this but it would be boring af 2. They probably want to win under the rules that apply in tournaments because that's the setting the usually play in... People are not trying to ruin streaks just for the cause of it I think... And if we take into account that in tournaments Nurse does not always win and that comp players can win against a comp Nurse then we just have to assume that matchmaking is really bad, also in the video you posted Alf lost one Game against Hens and his friends... So it does show Nurse does not automatically win but it takes equally skilled players and they are just really rare.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289019#Comment_3289019
Anything about 50% kill rate IS FREE WIN. Win by survivor is defined if he escapes. For killer it's if they kill or not (killer playing 4 matches at the same time during 1 game). It's like playing in chess but one (enemy) side has only 1 horse and you saying that's fine, because I should have advantage because "I said so" or because magic word "power role" (what does that exactly mean? Why should it magically mean you get more wins just by choosing "this team"?).
The reason why I don't care about 1 or 2% difference is, that every game that is not symmetrical is hard to perfectly balance. And it's interesting when 2 sides do different things to actually win over the other. For this reason low percentage advantage for the other side is acceptable in the name of making the game more interesting. But the idealistic goal should be (and now I go 100% fully generally for every game) - each side having equal chance to win the game over every other side (so 33.3333...% if there are 3 teams and so on).
Even in really balanced games 1-2% is normal, since dbd is asymmetrical even 5-10% could be somewhat reasonable.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289000#Comment_3289000
In theory you are right, but in practice I disagree. If one side played that much better, it would make sense for them to win fully - from this POW I agree that 1K and 1E should not be so "free" is they are now.
However suppose you are in loosing match (does not matter what side). You see you are weaker then the other side and the chance for you to win is very low at this point. Why should you be even trying at this point? What motivates you to not go AFK at this point (or in worse case for survivor to hide indefinitely stalling the game as much as possible)? Yes killer having endgame camping to secure a kill and survivor having chance at hatch are required so that the other side keeps playing the game.
Yeah that's the point which is why there needs to be a mechanic to give the last one a chance to escape but make it less rng.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288997#Comment_3288997
So it means killer being able to secure 1K does NOT change percentages then, because 1E counters it. Means that there's imbalance in main game that should be evened out (IMO mainly in soloQ being so absolutely horrible right now).
It is not entirely even with the 3ks since hatch offers a lower chance to escape than the 1k...i however don't know what the odds are, but since the killer would need to find the hatch first and be able to patrol the gates that would lead to a higher escape than kill rate for the last survivor... If I had to guess somewhere between 60 and 70% let'say killer find the hatch first in 54% of cases because of higher movements speed but now the survivor can still get the gates which is probably again fairly even, maybe somewhat killer sided, fair enough at that point, we will end up somewhere in the 60/70/75% range.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288996#Comment_3288996
ok. I will accept 1 or 2% difference. That's fine. 10%+ difference is not fine.
Also win/loose is symmetrical in DBD. You either kill/survive or you don't. If this part was also asymmetrical (you could both escape and get killed somehow - which is stupid by itself of course), then we can talk about asymmetrical win percentages (they should overlap somehow so that both sides have same overall chance to win).
I think both (securing 1k most of the time) as well as an rng mechanic that gives you a somewhat high chance to escape as the last person (the hatch and if closed gates) are stupid mechanics if we want this to be more balanced... Getting 1k should require player skill and the same goes for escaping as the last person alive.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288992#Comment_3288992
Ok then add a mechanics that survivors can get 1 free escape every match. Make hatch play easier for survivor. Make it so that last survivor will most likely escape (even if killer decides to slug) to balance out killer being able to secure 1K most of the time
The hatch already is that kind of counter measure, because the survivor can still get out even if the killer closes the hatch... That kind of evens it out... I think they also said that 0ks are really rare, 1ks are similarly often to 3 KS 4 KS are happening more often than 0ks but not that much more often and 2ks are the most.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288980#Comment_3288980
why? Why in multiplayer game one team should win even if they don't earn it? Would you be OK in any other game if you lost because you are on specific team? Say in LoL you probably loose because you are blue team?
Sure the game is asymmetrical and that's fine. It means one side does different thing than the other side. It should by no means mean that one side should be handed win over the other side for free. Also why do you thing it's killers that deserve free wins instead of survivors (I think no side should get free wins BTW)?
You cannot compare LOL or other symmetrical games with DBD... Btw. In Dota for example either dire or radiant has a 1-2% higher win rate overall... Sometimes lower... And if we take CSGO or Starcraft 2 maps are either favored for T or CT or for the different races.. So even there are differences.
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@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286330#Comment_3286330
Aren't roles then "technically" balanced then? If we go by %.
50% would mean that every game, 2 survivors will die.
60% means that every game 2 survivors will die and maybe a 3rd one. Which gives the power role (killers) the advantage they should have.
Killer can most of the time secure 1 K, which is why they want the kill rate be above 50 %, because the 1ks would push the average down.
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@ProveKa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287948#Comment_3287948
Looks like you're smart enough to search for content on YouTube.But you're too cunning to write nurse streak.People don't get 700 win streaks 300 win streaks only on open maps and this is stats that only appear on youtube.6000 survivors, maybe even more, when this win takes just a part of the streaks.There are certainly some among them who know these tactics, but the result still does not change.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP4e5uCoDFQ&t=684s
You have the ability to search for videos on youtube.Look, to win against the nurse.Over 20,000 hours of gameplay in total, swf and you have to play as if there is a 1,000,000 dollar prize at the end of the game.Am I entering the tournament or playing the game?In addition, they know that there is a nurse in front of them when entering the game and they arrange perks and items accordingly.
I will say I hope you understand, but again you will show a cunning.
I mean you have a comp Nurse against a comp squad and the survivors are limiting their item and perk choices, therefore I don't really get what you are trying to tell me? The only thing I can read out of such streaks is enormous player skill and matchmaking being unable to give them appropriate opponents of similar skill most of the time?
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That has nothing to do with killer or survivor, cutting down base game mechanics to re introduce them as perks is just plain stupid.
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@BenSanderson55 said:
Sounds like killers are just getting lazy now. Recently killers had their entire basekit buffed while survivor was mostly nerfed. This was to shakeup the meta. Now killers tunnel and camp more than ever and still use at least one slowdown, usually more.
Since the slowdown perks are still overall better than the chase perks no wonder... It is sad but oftentimes people will go the most boring but most efficient way... Really sad :/
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287959#Comment_3287959
To place 4 traps by an exit on Lery's, and nothing bad happens as a result. What are y'all's survivor caliber even? You can't even place down A trap half the time without it getting disarmed before it gets used.
In the scenario the survivor was on the other side, so how was he gonna disable traps with trapper 5 m away?
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288314#Comment_3288314
It's a sorting number so that people with 50 horus don't face killers with 9000 hours. It's hidden so you can't gripe on the forums that you have 1200 MMR and were placed against a 1800 MMR killer. Some people know their MMR but moderation does not allow elaboration.
Remove MMR and the problem goes away. Over a long enough time line Random Assortment is the best arrangement for all players. It is healthy for the game for bad players to occasionally play really good killers (or survivors).
I have above 2k hours and faced someone with 25 hours a few days ago... That concept really works well dude ^^
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@brunolord20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288298#Comment_3288298
but i mean time from feral is too short , dbd has a lot of big maps and feral frenzy from legion is not good to almost all maps
Yes, and that's fine... Because his mechanic is annoying enough to have to mend so often without much you can do about getting hit.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288260#Comment_3288260
Your argument is highly dependent on the idea that survivors start apart. Many of the best players have suggested for a long time now that all survivors always spawn in the same place. That would potentially allow survivors to use an offering to make them not start together (change start with someone to - start away from everyone else).
High MMR does exist. The devs were very sneaky and essentially separated the "baddies" from the good players. The only way they play together is via SWF. Overall it kinda seems most people liked the game when there was no MMR. Every month you had a complete reset so you weren't locked into some kind of "eternal struggle" with tough matches.
Yes starting the trial together would be great, but I really dislike the idea of having an offering to remove such a balancing change.
As for the High MMR part... Yeah a high number exists, but it does not mean anything because of the priority matchmaking takes with faster queues over balance... So what does that useless number even matter for?
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"Let's look at the sequence of the discussion.
- You said you can just moonwalk.
- I said that doesn't work on most of the game tiles
- You said that doesn't matter and suddenly flip flopped. I called you out for flipping and then:
- You wanted to pull a reverse as if I changed my position when in fact I have the same position.
- You are the one who suddenly suggested the right light "isn't a big deal" but were adamant enough about not wanting it to be changed that you made a post to state your opinion against the idea.
"
I said it isn't a big deal on tiles that already provide you with vision of the killer, because they are like the tiles on Azarovs all low from a height perspective... I however said, that it is usefull for example at shack or TL walls, which are tiles that basically spawn on most maps.
"Using my quote against me doesn't really work. I said the red light gives a ton of free information : which is far better than most of the aura reading perks in terms of information. You're trying to say that it isn't a big deal so we shouldn't bother changing anything."
The killer could still moonwalk if you did in fact bring the perk, so why would you ever bring the perk...
"Most games do this to the top 10% of players who are in some cases 50% to 100% better than everyone else. They level out the top possible skill so the best player are still the best but they make them only roughly 20-40% better than everyone else."
That does not apply to an asymmetrical game however... In World of Tanks or most games people will have the same tools against each other, and probably also a working matchmaking system, both of which DBD does not have. So this is just not comparable...
If you seriously don't play a killer because you like his mechanic but because he is strong and you just like to win, then you are not playing the game for its own sake and fun but just for the good feeling of winning, and I find that really sad.
"This is a coherent argument and a very good point (on which I agree). DBD should not have maps that are designed to be unfair to most of the killers unless we are also willing to have maps that are also unfair to survivors. Did you know for example that the original shelter woods had a 76% kill rate? Even in the era of "infinite windows" it was a death trap because there were very few pallets (almost all were unsafe) and there were very few windows to attempt a window infinite."
No wonder, people had no idea how the game worked back then, that's the only reason why survivors did not win every game...
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Isn't it kind of fair that you cannot constantly hit all people and get a down everytime? The most effective thing against legions power is spreading out and if they are all in opposite corner of the map I think it is kind of fair that you cannot reach them all... I mean Windows are useless against his power and pallets are only semi usefull... So what else is there besides running?
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@RavenBirb said:
update the perks to coincide with a new game mode already, at this point since 2016 in my opinion, its the objective that makes this game boring or bad, whatever. Its the same thing over and over and over again with little variety.
All these wonderful killer choices and chapters just to keep for stagnant gameplay. We don't even get different kills to watch like in Friday the 13th:the game to have the frustrating alpha squad survivor games be more worth the effort.
The only killers that are high tier at this point are the ones who teleport or have a speed boost. Anything else will be less tier. Bloodlust is absolute garbage
Please put in a new Objective for this game
I mean do you just want a different thin instead of generator you need to sit on for xy amount of time? Otherwise you seem to want an entirely new game... Where would you even start in balancing that dude XD
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@brunolord20 said:
is just me or feral frenzy is too short almost all matches i can get hit max 2 people , time is too short , without pills is almost impossible to play
Run the yellow addon that doubles the duration... Since it would end in a down it would be quite overpowered if you could consistantly hit all 4 people... Also given that there is not much you can do to provide legion from hitting you in his power besides running away it is good that it is not too long, who would want to mend even longer.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288250#Comment_3288250
Your argument makes zero sense.
Removing the red light vs bad players wont' do much - ok this is correct.
Removing the red light vs good players wont do anything. This is wrong because most skilled survivors depend on the light mechanic to know where to go in a chase. You would have to 50/50 guess every time. That's the problem with DBD in that you never really have to guess at most 50/50 events which is why survivors can loop for 40-60 seconds without getting hit which breaks the game at high levels of play.
There is a paradox in DBD that you're supposed to get caught making mistakes when the killer forces you into a 50/50 event. The red light prevents you from making the wrong choice. A perfect example is the killer shack. Everyone knows how to loop it because they can see the red light. Remove the gaps and remove the red light and suddenly that building becomes a blind 50/50 event.
The devs were laughing with their faces when they said : just do a mind game. This was because they knew that their game design didn't really allow for killers to perform a "fair" 50/50 mind game at most loops.
"This is wrong because most skilled survivors depend on the light mechanic to know where to go in a chase. You would have to 50/50 guess every time. "
How is it something else than a 50 50 when the killer is hiding his red light at a TL wall? He is either doubling back or he is moonwalking and coming around the corner to hit you?? How can skilled survivors rely on the red light in this scenario when there are two outcomes which both involve not seeing a red light??
"A perfect example is the killer shack. Everyone knows how to loop it because they can see the red light. Remove the gaps and remove the red light and suddenly that building becomes a blind 50/50 event."
Or you can just moonwalk around the corner and try to get a hit? But good survivors will just wait at a safe spot until you enter and then take the vault last second, so your argument makes no sense here...
"The devs were laughing with their faces when they said : just do a mind game. This was because they knew that their game design didn't really allow for killers to perform a "fair" 50/50 mind game at most loops."
How is hiding your red light at a TL wall something else than a 50 50 ... You are not making sense at all...
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288247#Comment_3288247
"I don't think the red light is training wheels... The red light really does not reach that far so I simply don't understand the issue you have with this mechanic."
So then it won't matter if we remove it. I'm glad you agree. You can't have your argument go both ways - lol.
"Also it would also affect killers in a negative way, by showing or not showing your red light around a TL wall you can make the survivor vault or not vault when pulled off properly, by removing the option you removed an option for the killer to influence survivors behaviour, why would you want that?"
This is incorrect and it is telling that you don't understand this. Survivors have the ability via perfect positioning on blind loops to avoid a hit by standing in the correct place and waiting. Removing the red light would delete these safe zones.
You know how a Huntress can zone you at a T/L? Well now all killers would be able to do that because you dont have omniscience about where they are coming from.
Overall the killer would be much less predictable which would raise your adrenaline levels while being chased to something that you might not have felt back since your first month as survivor.
"So then it won't matter if we remove it. I'm glad you agree. You can't have your argument go both ways - lol."
It is a base mechanic that can be used for mindgames, why would you want to remove it??
"This is incorrect and it is telling that you don't understand this. Survivors have the ability via perfect positioning on blind loops to avoid a hit by standing in the correct place and waiting. Removing the red light would delete these safe zones."
Elaborate further? If you are basically right behind them and don't how your redlight, which makes them run further and not take the vault at the T wall and then you come around the corner you can hit them before they can reach the vault of the L wall... so what do you exactly mean?
"Overall the killer would be much less predictable which would raise your adrenaline levels while being chased to something that you might not have felt back since your first month as survivor."
Great, I always wanted my game to be a flip of a coin instead of proper action and reaction with some mindgames...
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288235#Comment_3288235
Being able to complete your first generator in 40-50 seconds is also "really rough dude".
It's not fun to play high MMR and lose 3 gens in the first chase. Watch your favorite killer streamer and you will see this all the time when they play very skilled/efficient survivors playing in a SWF.
First of all, High MMR does not really exist because the queue time takes priority over the balance of the game itself. Another problem is spawn points, when you don't have corrupt and all the survivors just spawn directly in front of gens what is gonna happen? Ofc they will start doing the gens... Loosing one gen in 40-50 seconds is still better than loosing 3 after 90 seconds because if they work together they are less efficient on doing that. Which is always better, if they spread out all across the map you cannot interrupt multiple people, you cannot snowball as easily so...
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288238#Comment_3288238
As a thought experiment consider what would happen if there were no red light. What would happen? Which part of the player base would be most affected by it?
The best players would lose the ability to loop as well as they do now and would probably lose 20 or seconds of chase time. The bad players would still loop poorly but be caught a few seconds faster.
What would that do to the game? It would allow you to "standardize" chase time. The game is a complete mess in terms of balance because some people can loop for a minute and some people can loop for 20 seconds before getting hit. Gens are however standardized. The lack of chase standardization is one of the things that holds this game back.
Why would that matter? It would allow you to fine balance chases because you know the best players can only loop for X time. If you still don't understand why this would be good for the game then you need to "sit out".
That is a really stupid explanation... Yes survivor players of different skill levels loop the same killer for a different lenght of time... Artificially making better players worse to fit them in a box with worse players is a terrible idea. Punishing players that actually learned how to play the game just to make it easier to balance, this is really something. If you really wanted to standardize things how about we start with maps and take out some RNG of them? How is cowshed in the same game as shelter woods? How are some maps completely hit or miss when it comes to the map generation and others like cowshed or RPD or the Game are always broken in the same way. If the maps were less random and more equal strenght wise you could balance around that way better, without the need to punish better players.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286619#Comment_3286619
"like you can already hide your red stain by moonwalking"
Most loops have no way to hide the information either because the killer is too tall or because the loop has nowhere you can hide the light. Show me on an autohaven tile set where you can do it. Ok how about corn maps? Nope.
But WHY should the killer need to do an extra step and hide their light? As an observer looking at the game for the first time it makes DBD look like you're watching a Scooby Doo chase scene montage.
Seeing the red light is a level of free information that is on the level with :aura reading.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286619#Comment_3286619
-"Punishing somebody for playing your game a lot doesn't seem like a good idea"
Do you understand the concept of training wheels? The red light mechanic is 100% a hand holding aspect of the game that should "go away" with the option to keep it on - if you still need it.
Looping as a survivor is mostly a joke because you always have this gleaming red light ( that some player abuse but I'm not allowed to elaborate due to moderation) to tell you exactly what to do.
-"So if it goes it should go completely and that would be harder for newer players who already have it rough against killers and barely make a difference against experienced players as they go against killer who know how to hide their red stain"
Low level players dont understand what it means to be that close to the killer nor do they look behind them when looping or throwing pallets.
Again I say: Keep the red light as an option that is always available as a generic level three perk. If you still need the training wheels red light perk bring it - but in so doing you give up a perk slot forever.
That would be fair to the killer.
Ok so let me get this straight... So first you say most loops don't even give you the option to hide the given information properly because you can be seen anyway, regardless of the red light and you still want it removed why? I mean the generic tiles that spawn on every map like TL Walls are great for hiding your light, same goes for many jungle gyms. By just removing the red light you remove a layer of depth of the game, something that is not required to learn anymore and the survivor now has to guess entirely if the killer will come aroudn the TL wall corner or not, before he at least needed to hide his light and trick the survivor by doing that.
I don't think the red light is training wheels... The red light really does not reach that far so I simply don't understand the issue you have with this mechanic.
Also it would also affect killers in a negative way, by showing or not showing your red light around a TL wall you can make the survivor vault or not vault when pulled off properly, by removing the option you removed an option for the killer to influence survivors behaviour, why would you want that?
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/357181/is-it-time-to-remove-the-killer-s-red-stain
Mclean who was one of the main game designers (who is no longer with the project) got extremely pissed off whenever anyone mentioned removing the red light.
A very simple fix would be to remove it and allow survivors to "get it back" with a perk. This would mean you must use a perk slot to have the information.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287644#Comment_3287644
What you mean is: the game works at low levels of play but not high levels because the red light exists.
Another simple fix would be : After hitting MMR rating of 'X' for the first time you don't ever see the red light again.
Why would we start making basekit mechanics into perks? the red light is fine as it is... No need to do anything there.
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@DBDVulture said:
The correct perk to add to killer base kit is : Deadlock.
And if the killer takes the perk Deadlock then extend the effect by 30 seconds.
60 seconds of blocked gen is really rough dude ^^
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288133#Comment_3288133
Yes. That's what I remember and saw here in this forum in news section. But that guy talked about 65%. That's very different from 60%
Didn't he just say they are currently were they want them to be? I don't see a 65 right now?
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288011#Comment_3288011
Where did they mentioned that? Last time I heared they targeted kill rate to 60% which is a few months back
When they published their stats it was at around 60% and they said it is now where they wanted it to be if I remember correctly.
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@Donleov said:
Yeah, I think it would be a fair trade 1 map that she cant play but being fair overall.
If nurse gets a free dc on that map everytime sure... But you cannot seriously expect people to actually try on the map because there is no way anybody can get a down with that idea...
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286634#Comment_3286634
I don't know what to say. It's like y'all think killers have all the time in the world to do whatever they want and have it work out, or that survivors can only perform the most basic of functions until the killer puts out even a minute amount of pressure.
If you are on the other side of it and the survivor has to either go through you and get hit or wait until he is completely trapped... What do you mean by they have all the time? xD
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@ProveKa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287308#Comment_3287308
The things you mention only work against someone playing nurse for the first time.Also, do you want me to leave the spots that make up 95% of the map and go to 5% of the map?so how much is my chance there oh my chance has increased from 5% to 10%.Also you are the real shortsighted.(Enough to defend the nurse)
If breaking line of sight would only work against bad nurses, why would Lerys be Nurses worst map that makes many Nurses struggle? Because line of sight breaking does work against nurse and the map just cranks it up to 1000% because it is really easy to do it on this map, sure other maps don't provide nearly as much line of sight blockers, but they stay the same throughtout the entire game, unlike the few god pallets you have against spirit and afterwards there is nothing to hold her back with Nurse the map keeps its strenght in looping possibilities throughtout the entire game.
You need to play around the parts of the map that are strong... When you play on Saloon and only play in the outskirts but not in the town you cannot really complain that there are barely tiles... Same goes for Suffocation Pit when one side does not have as many pallets as the other one... As survivor it is your job to loop the killer in places that provide you with protection and the killers job to make you go in weaker areas or create deadzones...
Also since you seem to struggle with appropriate counterplay against Nurse, here is a guide that I found very usefull:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMlBH9t6ARwI hope that was helpful.
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- Trapper can now reload traps from lockers, they do not spawn in the map randomly, but he can only pull out a limited amount of ... 8 or 9 or whatever it currently is
- Trapper can disintegrate a trap from distance similar to sadako and her TVs he has an indicator above the currently selected trap and can remove it manually to grab it out of a locker again
- Trapper keeps his 2-3 traps he can hold at the same time
- Differently from Sadakos teleport the removal is not instant but takes like 2 seconds or so during which he is not slowed or anything, just so you don't accidentally remove a trap you didn't aim at but got unlucky with it still getting focussed...
I thought of these changes some time ago.
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@ProveKa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3281839#Comment_3281839
to learn something? :D Are you a comedian or something? The chase logic of the game has palettes and windows. Are you suggesting to learn something against a killer who can ignore them?
That is very shortsighted... Some killers ignore specific things of the game: Huntress, Deathslinger and Trickster can hit people over ojects or even through small holes in structures. Nemesis can hit you overpallets and other low tiles. Against different killers you have to use the map differently... While against a M1 killer you can just run the Long Wall jungle gym normally and going for the winning doing this against huntress or Demogorgon will get you hit, shack is also rather rough against those two killers.
In the sense of it being necessary to use high wall tiles Nurse is simliar to huntress, deathslinger or Trickster. But where it provides protection against those three killers against nurse it provides you with the ability to make her miss a blink. There are several killers that get hardly bothered by pallets and windows, a good spirit (with yellow addons or even less) will have to kick like 2-3 pallets on an ordinary map and afterwards there will be nothing to hold her.
Also I would like to add that some structures that are useless against other killers that can just follow you are really good against nurse: The outskirts of the map with those high wall tiles, the houses one some maps (bedham, Haddonfield and so on) even without using the windows (yeah sure those houses are really good tiles because of the windows, but against nurse the windows are not even the important thing)... I mean just because some stuff does not work against her does not mean nothing works against her. Tiles are not equally strong against all killers and Nurse just has completely different weaknesses, and just because windows and pallets don't help much against her does not mean that you can do nothing about her.
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@Nuyu said:
I keep coming across nems and demos who hit their abilities at the same precise moment they become avaliable, roughly 0.825ms, yes I tested it vs bots, asking if this is allowed or reportable, it can't be muscle memory if it's too consistent
After playing demo long enough it kind of becomes muscle memory, I'm not that firm with Nemesis so I can't tell for him, but on Demo you can be really precise with the timing.
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@Alionis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286814#Comment_3286814
I'd love to have your region then, because in mine DS definitely still enjoys its popularity enough to be common.
EU central, but maybe I play around weird times only? Don't know.