Archol123
Archol123
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Window tiles are not always in reach and on most maps the nearest tile will most of the time be a filler pallet.
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Great...and then you get a map that does not have 20 pallets and then what? The issue with hindered is that it makes looping really hard since most tiles only work when you have 100% ms and you cannot really loop them otherwise... The issue with that is that survivors need to pre drop even more now, which is a problem on maps that don't have that many pallets... Also if a survivor is skilled enough to preserve pallets and not waste them right away why would you want to remove that? Then everybody will just pre throw pallets... Great game play if every map ist just pallet kicking without looping...
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@barsw said:
Bruh you are so naive sing more about balanced nurse xd
What I did was point out that your comparison is terrible and balancing around people who have no idea how the game works is a bad idea... Just because you have no clue on what to do against Nurse does not mean there is nothing you can do.
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@roundpitt said:
What I do is fake aim then immediately continue running. Every time survivors flick to the side and waste time. Gives me time to catch up to them and M1. But it means most of my games I don’t get to shoot the gun.
I think the change was asinine. They did it so survivors could dodge his bullets, which okay that’s fine - but they gave nothing in return. So now he just feels clunky and at high skill levels he’s an M1 killer with a silly water gun.
I would not call it a water gun, but I admit that they should have given him something in return, which ofc should not have been a mechanic that made him annoying to face again like his insta shooting.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294051#Comment_3294051
learn to use pallets and line of sight along with 110% m/s to make distance.
And exactly to have somewhat of an idea when he is about to shoot it is a good thing that he has somewhat of a delay and cannot insta shoot anymore.
no, it is badly balanced. Its one of the thing that needs to be reverted for slinger to remotely be enjoyable to play.
It is a 0.4 second delay, how is it that much of an issue for you to not have fun anymore?? Insta shooting slinger was stupid and it is good that it's gone because aiming was basically irrelevant because you already did that while following and the survivor could not dodge it, because he had no clue when a shot was coming. I'm completely fine with people not having fun with a killer that was that unfun to against because it got changed to be less brain dead...
Why do people always make such a big deal out of small changes that make the game more enjoyable for the other side... Slinger and Spirit changes where not that big of a deal that it should change anyone's fun and I'm glad those things got changed.
"learn to use pallets and line of sight along with 110% m/s to make distance."
What does that answer now?? That does not change the fact that most shots slinger fires cannot be reaction dodged because it is humanly not possible because of the travel time of singers projectile and the human reaction time + ping/imput delay...
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293978#Comment_3293978
Your not suppose to know precisely when he would shoot. It is approximation for when he will shoot and where he will shoot. that is what hens is doing in the video. It is half guessing, half-knowing. For me personally, I could react to certain long distance shots but part of that is experience in playing the killer and knowing the killer's gameplay tendencies.
It is more of the slinger missing and not the survivor juking and yeah sure you can guess right and make the slinger miss
You could easily flip this statement and say its survivor having bad movement that allows deathslinger to hit shots in current iteration. you have to rely on survivor having poor movement and overall poor looping to hit shots now. that is why it is not fun experience to play him now. lots of control on survivor side, not much control on killer side.
Not at a certain distance... Everything below 10m or so cannot be reacted to with human reaction time, yeah sure shots above might be possible to dodge, but not below, and that's the majority of shots a deaths linger will usually try on you...
And exactly to have somewhat of an idea when he is about to shoot it is a good thing that he has somewhat of a delay and cannot insta shoot anymore.
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@Yoshirama said:
Share your opinions and you can share your own ideas
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/T7WKMR0PVJQ7/boon-restoration.png
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https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/38MGJCGXCKQG/hex-mortal-empathy.png
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I love how "Hex: Mortal Empathy" gets worse if you level it xD
Besides that the perks seem great.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293364#Comment_3293364
No you cannot?? Based on reaction time + ping that is more than the travel distance, it is physically impossible to dodge that thin??
what do you think hens is doing in the video? it is possible. there is skill in guessing a finite amount of possibilities. Its what all better survivor player's did against him.
There is nothing to read when he just shortly tabs his ADS? This has nothing to do with reading it was just free zoning.
Your belittling the killer player and grossly oversimplifying the gameplay.
Dude you have to be pretending... Slingers wind up for ADS is so short compared to like huntress or so, and nobody complains about huntress being too weak
bigger hitboxes makes her more balanced towards wiggling. the survivor's skill-cap is based off how well they wiggle vs how well she aim's. her skill-cap is more geared towards timing throws(To avoid being LOS) and little bit less around aim. before you overly simplify, There is skill in wiggling and there is skill in timing.
he was reverse. He was less about timing(quick-scoping), and more about aim but survivor gameplay was less about wiggling and more about timed jukes/side steps. obviously there was still some timing in shooting as reckless shooting with 1 ammo is not advised and survivor still wiggled in certain cases if they were very ahead of slinger in order to get to key pallets and maximize the risk of shooting but it was not core of the gameplay.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293365#Comment_3293365
That will make looping extremely bad and there would be no point in doing so. It would again make hiding or holding W much better strategy, because you can potentially save more then 5s this way.
Holding-W already is strongest strategy. Killer have accepted that as norm and run generator defence in anticipation of hold-w gameplay. Generators are starting to be balanced around this gameplay optimization as well. Hiding can can be strong if the entire team commits to it but I think its not too popular in current dbd because the skill-cap of hiding is strangely higher then looping in current dbd. Lack of requirement to do so and not many good perks to make it consistently effective.
The game needs to allow survivors to loop so long as they don't make any mistake (while making mistake should be super easy to do, to the point that even best loopers do them).
The loops are still relatively too safe in many places on maps so there is relatively low possibility to make mistakes in loops. your right that making mistakes should be super easy to do but it is not like that. that is why they is large divide between weaker and stronger killers. Stronger killer can create more situations favourable towards the killer to get hits. More chances to get hits equates to more chances for survivor to make a mistake. your assuming this weakens looping. In a vacuum looping does become weaker but I would say that looping becomes more risky. Ideally, looping should be infinitive rewarding but infinitive risky(near impossible to be flawless at).
If ping + reaction time is more than the traveling time of the projectile then how in the world are you supposed to reaction dodge it?? It is more of the slinger missing and not the survivor juking and yeah sure you can guess right and make the slinger miss, but you cannot reaction dodge a projectile if it moves that fast... Are you ignoring human reaction time being higher than the time it takes the projectile to reach you or what??
I'm not oversimplifying anything, that is why people hated to go against slinger, since you could never know when he would shoot. Yeah sure probably he would shoot before you round a safe corner, but that's about it...
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@Forza said:
I don't think nurse's abilities or kit should be changed. However, she is a strong killer in the right hands to the point of being oppressive. Therefore a few changes that can be made without changing the playstyle and overall feel of the killer would include.
- All attacks made after a blink are considered special attacks. These attacks neither benefit from status effects like Exposed or apply effects like Hemorrhage, Mangled, Blindness etc.
- Her aura reading only applies to her terror radius. Additionally, she should have an effect similar to Object of Obsession so that whenever she can see a survivor's aura, they can see hers as well.
Even with these changes she will still be a top tier killer but they will reduce her overall power level and capacity to easily snowball game. Further, these changes won't impact her overall kit or fundamentally change her playstyle. Additionally, design space for perks that would have before been too powerful on nurse and not other killers will be available. Perks in the past have undergone changes/nerfs specifically because of nurse so in a sense the nurse's existence is passively lowering the power level of all other killers.
Just a reminder, the nurse violates the normal rules of gameplay and no other killer violates the game's core chase mechanics in the way she does. So why should the normal rules of status effects and aura reading apply to her in the same way?
So BBQ just does not work on her anymore since it is outside of her terror radius and therefore does not apply anymore? That sounds a bit weird?
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https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1675308662@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293399#Comment_3293399
You did have to aim tho Semantics aside.
Its true, I have not recovered on Deathslinger since the nerf, every game with deathslinger is terrible.
You tell me then how hes supposed to be played.
3:45:00 h into the stream is a Deathslinger game. If you look through older streamds you will probably find some games as well, or check Hens333's youtube.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293399#Comment_3293399
Huntress can tap throw hatchets
According to the wiki even a tap throw takes 1.25 seconds... Which is a lot more than instashooting slinger or his 0.4 second delay he has these days. Also Huntresses tap thrown hatchet only moves at 25m/s instead of 40m/s like a fully charged one or deathslingers harpoon (regardless of how long you have ADS up)... So this just cannot be compared.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293399#Comment_3293399
You did have to aim tho Semantics aside.
Its true, I have not recovered on Deathslinger since the nerf, every game with deathslinger is terrible.
You tell me then how hes supposed to be played.
You can for example watch some of Hens' videos or streams, he plays slinger sometimes. The same as every other windup killer, when you want to shoot you wind up and shoot? I don't really understand the question xD
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@Emeal said:
I too wish for bHVR to do something to make Deathslinger viable to the general audience, its a hard slap in the face when you buy a Killer which is enjoyable to play and then its nerfed and not enjoyable anymore.
- I cant make a splitsecond decision anymore, everything has to be predicted and slowly executed.
- He is SO RELIANT on Reload speed addons. I hardly ever use any other addons.
Please make Deathslinger better.
His reload speed did not get changed at all, so I don't really get why that is relevant in context of the nerf? And he still shoots far quicker than Huntress, his wind up is not even close to being as long and he is still one of the best 10-15 killers in the game.
I don't understand people saying the killer is not enjoyable anymore, since he did not really get changed too much... Just because of 0.4 seconds of wind up? Insta shooting was a dumb mechanic and I'm glad it is gone, Imagine Huntress could throw hatchets without needing to wind up at full speed? Sounds stupid, but that was what slinger was like, and guys who want that back seem to just not want to aim properly, but rely on doing something that cannot be reacted to.
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As for the dodging... I would even go as far and say we could go into a custom lobby stand like 10m apart from each other as slinger and survivor and you probably could not even crouch in time to avoid the shot. Since his ADS used to have no delay it should be similar to basically just sitting there already aiming at the person, I would aim high on chest/head level so it would miss with a crouch, and based upon the math it should be physically impossible to dodge it. And if crouching does not work neither does sidestepping.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293308#Comment_3293308
So all you want is to always be able to hit survivors at every loop everywhere every time. Well time to make gens 60s then if looping is no longer possible.
how did you conclude that? The chance to hit a survivors at every loop does not equal get a hit on every single loop. Its opportunity for you to get hit on every junction. that is what anti-loop is. it is suppose to be adding to risk to looping. Slinger added risk to most tiles in a lot of situations. That was unfun for survivor. The whole m/s reduction that @Archol123 is talking about in regards to killer is not adding risk to survivor looping. its making the powers more consistent to loop. that is like opposite effect. that is why a lot of the killers do not do too well. too safe powers.
Like sure the game will become boring, but if there's no looping for survivors because killer can outplay everything every time, then all survivors can do is decide where to die to maximize carry-to-hook time
your already doing that every game as survivor.
Dude you have to be pretending... Slingers wind up for ADS is so short compared to like huntress or so, and nobody complains about huntress being too weak. How is his power too safe, the only thing this delay does is give survivors a change to do something against it, it is ridiculous that 0.4 s or what it is would be that big of a deal that the killer is ruined. Slingers insta shooting was giving the survivor no indication at all, that would be the same if nemesis could insta slap you with his whip or something like that.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293272#Comment_3293272
Why would his skill not matter much aim wise?? Now it matters even more since you have the delay on ADS survivors get a hint when they need to try to juke so now it depends even more on your aim, because before the change you could insta shoot without any warning.
As crowman kinda eluded, you can side-step slinger's harpoon gun on reaction because of the travel distance on harpoon & tiny hitbox. Its why his change is perceived really negatively by killers because you can be really good at aiming but in the end, all that matters is the survivor's movement.
It seems you misunderstand what I meant with punishment... When you just tabbed ADS to get closer Slinger himself did not really get slowed down a lot, because the ADS was instant, what you describe is not punishment since the intention to shoot is only pretended to get closer to the survivor and if they react to it they are getting zoned.
Yes, they are getting zoned because they're making bad read on him shooting. The jist behind gameplay is that you as survivor are always way ahead of the killer in term of distance because killer generally break pallets slowly and slinger himself is 110% m/s so he barely catches up. your suppose to take risk in distance gain against his gun in certain instances but give up distance in other instances where you think the deathslinger is going to shoot. It is suppose to be risk to always wiggle against his gun because respecting every single shot allows him to gap-close distance while respecting no shots at all gives him an easy shot to land.
Billy gets slowed down when he uses his chainsaw, because if that was not the case then how do you loop those killers?
If for example Demogorgon did not get slowed down at all during holding his Shred, this would be terrible design, because as soon as you get into critical distance survivors would need to try to juke and unless a tile is close the demogorgon has no reason to use his shred, since there is the possibility of failure and instead can just follow and M1, that's the reason why zoning abilites need to lower the killers MS below that of survivors, because otherwise such stuff would happen.
this is great example of why most of the killer are not able to compete against good survivors because their kit has blatant drawbacks that are too easy to exploit by strong survivor players without a real way for the killer player to usurp the drawback's of the killer ability. Its pretty much lose/lose for using killer power. With less drawbacks on killer powers, survivor would need to take more risks in looping rather then know an accurate predicting outcome ahead of time for every single action the killer does.
I think his ADS is fine now
I think its not fine, hopefully it gets revert one day. entitle to your own opinion though.
"As crowman kinda eluded, you can side-step slinger's harpoon gun on reaction because of the travel distance on harpoon & tiny hitbox. Its why his change is perceived really negatively by killers because you can be really good at aiming but in the end, all that matters is the survivor's movement."
No you cannot?? Based on reaction time + ping that is more than the travel distance, it is physically impossible to dodge that thin??
There is nothing to read when he just shortly tabs his ADS? This has nothing to do with reading it was just free zoning.
Demogorgons shred has basically no slowdown unless you play like an idiot and hold it for too long? Otherwise you only get slowed down for the fraction of a second... Therefore I don't see your point there.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293076#Comment_3293076
Hens said in todays stream I think it was, or yesterday, that old slinger was braindead and he really likes the new one since it now requires skill to land a hit and not quickshooting.
I do not think looping deathslinger requires much skill from survivor. its kinda given if your good at survivor that your going beat him without much contest. I would say deathslinger's skill does not matter very much anymore aim-wise. its all up to the survivor movement to mess up. Bad balance in my opinion
he still lacks mobility and pre-running is effective, that's something that does not work as well against the high tier killers.
Pre-running is more effective now because of 32 meter terror radius. In his old iteration, he had 24 meter terror radius and with M&A, he had 16 meter terror radius. It was not that easy to pre-run away, but skilled SWF could do that. I had many games where that would happen to me. He does have lack of mobility, but a ranged attack is pretty good substitute for countering hold-w strategies.
The point of the instant ADS is that it has no cooldown or punishment for just quickly tapping it over and over again, it was just free zoning and was just stupid AF. The problem with trying to dodge the shot like hens did is that slinger does not have to commit into doing anything in the old version, like I said just tapping ADS does not loose him much, but makes the survivor try to juke a possible hit, free zoning is always an issue.
deathslinger did have punishment for quick-tapping it. The punishment is blocking line of sight and preventing slinger from shooting. Your inherit bias makes it sound like killer should lose distance for merely trying to use his power. I do not consider deathslinger's version as free-zoning because if survivor is good at movement, they can use obstacles and wiggle to make it risky for deathslinger to take a shot. This does make you lose distance in term of m1 game but this self-balanced itself out because deathslinger is 110% m/s which makes hold-W in term of m1 gameplay more effective. your suppose use your gun to get hits. Deathslinger is the type of killer where they used line of sight counter-play correctly and added risk vs reward between using it correct at right time without making the survivor impossible to hit at loops.
The type of zoning that I consider unhealthy in dbd is what I refer to as corner-zoning. Some survivor have describe this on some killer powers, namely the Artist and her birds, but I will refer to corner-zoning as brutal-strength type zoning. Its the type of zoning that happens when a pallet is in the corner of the map and the killer can break the pallet in the corner of the map in a specific way such that survivor always takes an m1 hit. Lot of killer powers exhibit this type of gameplay but most of them are ineffective from a pallet ratio to generator time-stand point which is why a lot of killer are not effective. They keep trying to push this type of gameplay onto the killer, but it just does not work, so whatever. This is just side-rant.
I still think deathslinger need revert. DBD balances off bad survivors so deathslinger is unlikely to change as he was not fun enough for survivors. Slinger needs to be free-win at exit gates, anything less is unfun.
Deathslinger also does not allow much looping for the survivor besides taking cover behind large tiles and maybe crouching sometimes if possible, just because you cannot react to the shot itself, because it is too fast.
Why would his skill not matter much aim wise?? Now it matters even more since you have the delay on ADS survivors get a hint when they need to try to juke so now it depends even more on your aim, because before the change you could insta shoot without any warning.
Holding w against a 110% killer is still quite effective but I agree that if you could hide behind objects while getting closer a small terroradius was helpful. But most maps are rather open so it oftentimes is not that easy anyway.
It seems you misunderstand what I meant with punishment... When you just tabbed ADS to get closer Slinger himself did not really get slowed down a lot, because the ADS was instant, what you describe is not punishment since the intention to shoot is only pretended to get closer to the survivor and if they react to it they are getting zoned. Of course a range killer should loose distance for trying to use his power? That's why every single range in the game gets slowed down or Billy gets slowed down when he uses his chainsaw, because if that was not the case then how do you loop those killers?
It was free zoning because deathslinger did not get slowed down, the survivor needed to try to avoid getting hit and therefore lost distance, that's why the current version is far better, because that's not possible anymore.
If for example Demogorgon did not get slowed down at all during holding his Shred, this would be terrible design, because as soon as you get into critical distance survivors would need to try to juke and unless a tile is close the demogorgon has no reason to use his shred, since there is the possibility of failure and instead can just follow and M1, that's the reason why zoning abilites need to lower the killers MS below that of survivors, because otherwise such stuff would happen.
Free win at exit gates what? Dude sometimes I seriously don't understand what you are even trying to say or why, why should Deathslinger be a free win at the exit gate??
I think his ADS is fine now and you have no idea what you are even talking about, you don't understand what zoning means in that context and why it needs to slow down the killer and for some reason human reaction time is not a thing because bots also learn how to dodge the shot...
I don't know what to tell people like you that just close the eyes in front of reality...
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292857#Comment_3292857
This is just not true. Deathslinger still had to aim his shots and his gun isn't hitscan.
The projectile moves at 40m/s... From close distance, there is no reaction there, so it could as well be hitscan, unless you had old deadhard. The point is you were already looking straight at the survivor when following them so you did not need to aim much more, this is why it was insta scoping, you didn't scope anymore after you tabbed ADS you just shot instantly.
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That's the tierlist I got from Hens' twitch, so I would not say Slinger is too bad... Barely not a top 10 killer according to hens.
And here we have Knightlights tierlist, also from his twitch, from a comp perspective. Deathslinger is in the top 10 of killers, I would therefore not assume that he is in too bad of a position. But giving his kit some more stuff to work with would also be fun, I however don't think he needs a major buff.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293041#Comment_3293041
strong pallet were not useless vs slinger. All strong pallet were still really strong vs him. pre-drop pallets was recommend sometimes because at certain distances and specific pallet drop-times, deathslinger could shoot as a survivor puts a pallet down and reel around certain objects and do a max distance lunge hit. It was very tight and you need a lot of killer knowledge to do this. For mastering survivor, you needed to know what places this occur and sometimes better play was to drop a pallet sooner to reduce counter-play/avoid situation from happening. To illustrate this with a video. I will use one of otz's old videos.
https://youtu.be/35vBSv7zPGw?t=746
you can see at 12:27 how feng puts down a pallet and he is able to reel at the perfect distance to get a hit. pre-drop pallet is talking about these situations.
Another example is at 13:30-13:41 where Adam drops a pallet and deathslinger is able to go around pallets. This is why sometimes pre-dropping pallet was correct play but again, this takes survivor knowledge and skill to play against.
15:32 is example of how a small mistake can lead you to not get a hit when dragging people around objects. It definitely took skill and knowledge to play this.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293042#Comment_3293042
It was definitely possible. I would often dead hard deathslinger's gun on reaction. that was entire mindgame behind his gun is that deathslinger's would shoot a little bit to right or little bit to left of where your character is facing, so you had to guess(win a mindgame) for whether to juke left or juke right as he fires the gun(from a distance).
closest thing to what I am talking about is what Hens does in this chase at 14:16
https://youtu.be/35vBSv7zPGw?t=856
You can see how hens moves slightly to the side as soon as deathslinger hold his ADS but a big part of deathslinger was knowing when to shoot and when to bait shots. In this example, deathslinger read correctly hens movement, but i think if hens moved a little closer to the pallet and predicted lowering of ADS, he would probably make the pallet. Deathslinger's chase were chef-kiss. Disregarding that the end result of that game for example was 1 kills, 3 escapes due to really imbalanced gen-speed. I think deathslinger would be A-tier killer by today's standards because of less cooldown on hits, less speed boost(Buff stbfl) and automatic game slowdown perks such as SC:Pain res and Deadlock. 10 second longer gens would really help slinger, re-balancing of old perks like dead hard. Deathslinger might have a chance at 3k in today's more balanced version of dbd compare to before.
As I said, Slinger was high-skill killer to play and very high-skill killer to play against as survivor. peek of dbd gameplay. re-watching this makes me miss old slinger :(
The problem with deadhard is that you had no travel time to dodge the projectile, you did not need to run out of it's reach you could just press the button, yes I can imagine that was possible, but that should not be the only thing you can do as counterplay against hist shot.
Hens said in todays stream I think it was, or yesterday, that old slinger was braindead and he really likes the new one since it now requires skill to land a hit and not quickshooting.
I don't really think old slinger would be A tier, he still lacks mobility and pre-running is effective, that's something that does not work as well against the high tier killers.
The point of the instant ADS is that it has no cooldown or punishment for just quickly tapping it over and over again, it was just free zoning and was just stupid AF. The problem with trying to dodge the shot like hens did is that slinger does not have to commit into doing anything in the old version, like I said just tapping ADS does not loose him much, but makes the survivor try to juke a possible hit, free zoning is always an issue.
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@ScØØby said:
You guys make a pretty good point of baiting survivors into a corner or trying to flick the Redeemer to the right or left to get a hit.
However, if you would make a buff to slingers Aim Down Sight how would you guys buff it and what would you consequently nerf to equal it out. I still like the idea of a weaker chain duration for a quicker ADS but I'm eager to hear your feedback.
Deathslinger is a low played killer, he needs a buff but not something to make him goofy or no-brain to play.
The problem is that the chain already does not really offer enough durability to reel people in from max distance as it is now, so by making it easier to break and his ADS faster you basically turn him into even more of a short/medium range killer.
https://youtu.be/r-fReILflsM?t=332If you look at this video at 5.32 min then you will see that he cannot hit him after reeling him in from probably around max distance, but at least enough to trigger the iridescent addon, as you can see by the sharpshooter score event in the top right corner of the screen. The addon activates at a distance of at least 12 m his max range is 18 m, so somewhere in between those two values is the point at which you cannot hit the survivor anymore.
What I would rather do to him is give him a different type of ammo that does not have the range limitation, but can be shot basically globally, but also needs line of sight, so nothing like bird lady has. We could also make his brown reaload addon basekit, but I'd rather add something to his power than just up the numbers a bit.
I would not want to buff the ads because that change was really good in my opinion, it just lacks something else to even it out balance wise.
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I would say maybe really small maybe you could be fast enough to push the button in that time, but with 30-60 ms delay to the server that would be rough... But even if we assumed this was possible, which it is probably not from a reaction time based standpoint. Then we would still have the problem that unless the slinger just aims where he will shoot you will not know where he will shoot at, so if he just flicks a little you might still run straight into it... And that's a big if, just because I don't think it is humanly possible to dodge that thing on reaction, based on average human reaction time, input delay and delay of 30-60 ms to the server.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292982#Comment_3292982
In a videogame like this counterplay should always be based on action and reaction, with the option to provoke a certain reaction and profit on it.
Without going into 3 paragraph of information, Deathslinger's gun is reactable for strong survivor player's. What the AI is doing vs deathslinger gun is same thing I would be doing vs deathslinger's gun. Its just that dbd balances around low-middle survivor players such as your level where the concept of mindgames and good tricky movement is non-existent. When I played against AI as deathslinger, it was huge nostalgia moment for what I used to play against as human survivor players long ago at high MMR with his gun. Those games were crazy.... i used practically nearly 1vs1 deathslinger's as survivor in some games. Fun times. Now I just play all I play against is armies of nurses... blights and some random killers. Deathslinger is really rare to face and if he I ever face him, he usually loses.
DBD balances around middle-level MMR survivor players. In essence, your level. Your survivor-level is bad-level but that is just where all killers are at. Bad-level.
What kind of weird insult is that? You have no clue how good or bad I play, why would you even?
So I'm bad because I have a human reaction time and need around 0.2-0.3 seconds to react to something and cannot instantly react like the AI? When playing against deathslinger and you are in a short to medium range like 6-10 m or something like that the harpoon is not possible to be reaction dodged. The projectile moves at 40m/s which means at 10 m it takes 0.25 seconds with human reaction time being around that much you probably cannot even press the button before the projectile hits you... It is not humanly possible to reaction dodge deathslinger in those cases.
Also I have no clue what you are talking about with high MMR games, this game never had proper matchmaking in the first place, not when there were ranks that were used for matchmaking and not after when SBMMR got introduced, the really good players had to wait ages and for some reason it was easier to get a good killer mmr than a good survivor mmr which lead to really long queue times.
Also what mindgames are you talking about? Slinger had an insta shot, there was not really any reasonable mindgame, no reaction to be provoked other than hoping the survivor makes some weird dodge reaction to loose distance.
Remembering times that never existed sounds kind of delusional to me buddy ^^
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Also I would like to add that just because you can react to something does not necessarily mean, that'll react appropriately, you can always try to make the survivor dodge right into the shot at longer distance by quickly aiming more to the left or right of him. Getting a guaranteed hit because you pulled of a insta shot with no interaction at all is the most no brain thing.
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@Nirgendwohin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292970#Comment_3292970
you cannot write this sentence in chat without being censored
Sad story bro.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292920#Comment_3292920
he was same for like 1-1.5 years and queue times were fine.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292857#Comment_3292857
why do you want no-brain dodge every redeemer shot on reaction? No need for longer projectiles when hitting current projectile is at the mercy of survivors. If the AI bots can learn to play against Slinger's gun then you can as well. Survivor entitlement is too much sometimes.
Ai does not need to act according to human reactions speeds... That's why AI's or machines are able to do things we cannot do... But great display of ignorance here dude... Have you ever seen AIs in RTS games? Where they have like 10.000 apm, do you also think "if the ai can do it, so can we" it's just not as simple as you're trying to make it. In a videogame like this counterplay should always be based on action and reaction, with the option to provoke a certain reaction and profit on it.
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Also 4 man team says nothing about their skill level... They could have less than 1k hours or be a comp team, so it does not really mean anything specific.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292698#Comment_3292698
I think most people who can play her nearly perfectly would disagree. There is a video from Hens where he plays a 4 man team and they accuse him of cheating. You should watch it.
You should be more concrete when mentioning somebody with probably several hundreds of videos on their youtube channel... But he also did a Spirit showcase where yellow addons were enough to win against the best comp team before all gens were done. Also he himself once said, that he thinks MDR Spirit might be stronger than nurse, but it's arguable, so that does not really support your point.
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@Marc_123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292931#Comment_3292931
:-)
I don´t mean how it is to learn - they say the sound of german is "hard"
I guess because of our words with T or P or son in it.
Yeah that's true.
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@Marc_123 said:
Because german is so "hard" :-)
At least everybody says so...
So beautiful words like: Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz
i mean... when you look at der, die and das then it is harder than english by far ^^ no need to learn if words masculin or feminen or neutral ^^
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@burt0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292856#Comment_3292856
Both. 😋
And yeah, i find it funny that Kennedy was so close to the native dialect with his accidental pronunciation.
That's at least what i think, maybe he did say it intentionally to imitate the native "Icke" that's used for Ich/I or it developed from his quote? I wouldn't know since i am not from around there and mostly dialect free.
But to the topic, i normally don't use my native language online (German) even when the serve i am playing on is marked for it, like in WoW.
And the chat filter in DBD has already make me look like i wanted to insult people with all it's censoring in english, so don't want to imagine what it would look like it.
I just think that the ch like we use it in german words does not appear with that pronounciation in english and that's why it sounded like that in his speech.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292647#Comment_3292647
there's no other buff that he needs other then this one.
Why would you want to turn him back into the old no brain just quick scope shoot thing... That was terrible to go against, just give him something else, like a long range projectile or something else to add to his kit instead of bringing the terrible stuff back that luckily got changed.
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@burt0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292824#Comment_3292824
"Ick bin ein Berliner" 😜
Do you mean the snack or the citizen of Berlin? ^^ Btw. many people don't know the cricumstances of that Kennedy quote, and I find that even more interesting, than the quote itself.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292814#Comment_3292814
Yes I can confirm most of my English sentences go through unscathed but "ich" is too much for the chat filter, let alone trying to tell someone it was a fun game (Spaß could mean anything you know, and don't even get me started on Glück)
Have you tried Erfolg instead of Glück? ^^ I don't know how to use something else for Ich... besides maybe using dialect?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292788#Comment_3292788
Nah I can promise that German gets hit 30x harder than every other language.
You sure? I had problems with both, since german is my first language I usually write in german when people have german names or profiles...
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Works the same in english as well, the censor is just really broken in general and you cannot be asked to report any single word this garbage thing censors because then you'd be doing nothing else...
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292175#Comment_3292175
"Spirit is completely fine with two yellow addons, and even with no addons she can perform well, but it limits her map traversal."
Winner winner chicken dinner. Nurse can destroy skilled players with no addons. Spirit won't be doing that. Spirit with her best addons is not even close to the same thing as Spirit with very limited addons.
With no addons Nurse really struggles catching up bigger distances, I truly believe that in comp players would rather use Spirit with yellow addons than Nurse with no addons.
Having no addons hurts Nurse more when it comes to map traversal than it hurts spirit.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292134#Comment_3292134
Any map where she can't use her good addons - which is green+yellow vs a strong team that listens for her phasing. Mouse 1 killer and go.
Her power is not map depedant at all, I don't understand what you mean... She moves at almost 8 m/s with yellow speed addon which gives the survivor a 3 second headstart until she is at their original location and another 1.5 seconds if they started running immediatly... Also I don't understand what you mean by "Mouse 1 killer and go." Spirit cannot be looped like a normal M1 killer as she is way too fast to make it around the loop if she holds the pallet.
Also I would like to point out that you started by saying "Across all maps Nurse and Blight are better." which also includes maps not played in tournaments, but then restricted it afterwards, please be more precise in your language.
Also I would say overall tournaments use different rule sets by a long shot, there was this really weird japanese tournament that allowed everything but iridescent addons and maps where completely random. And I also found one that also has maps completely random but judges with higher bloodpoints and has 5 matches per team vs team... So everyone has to play killer... But I will admit that was the weirdest stuff I have ever seen when it comes to tournament rules.
Spirit is completely fine with two yellow addons, and even with no addons she can perform well, but it limits her map traversal.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292113#Comment_3292113
Lerys and RPD are not used for tournaments.
Still does not change the point that spirit does not care about the map at all, whereas Blight has some maps with bad collision that don't work well for him and Nurse also has some bad maps... Which map would be bad for Spirit?
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292093#Comment_3292093
Across all maps Nurse and Blight are better.
It's a Moot point about one map.
With restrictions Nurse and Blight are 100% better.
So it's a moot point what gets used in tournaments.
Also that video wasn't a trapper win now was it? Spirit with 1 green and 1 yellow is good? Hell no.
Spirit is the least map dependant of those 3... Nurse struggles on larger maps or on Lerys and RPD for example, there are some really bad maps for Blight because of collision issues, so when we bring maps into the discussion Spirit is probably the most reliable of those 3.
With restriction I would probably agree about nurse, but I would say with limitations Blight and Spirit are really close together, but that comes more from the addon strenght because Nurses iridescent addons are just not as good as MDR.
Dude Spirit with two yellow addons will whipe the floor with us xD Nobody said anything about the weakest killer in the game being comparable.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292071#Comment_3292071
"you're completely misjudging what those guys can do."
No I'm not. Show me a comp killer and put them on trapper with 1 green 1 yellow addon. That's a 3 or 4 man escape on almost any map. There is so much difference in the power levels of the killers that it is brutally unfair.
There is a difference between Trapper and Killers like Artist dude... That's a whole different level... No one here is saying that a comp player can win with a basic M1 killer against everyone...
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3291334#Comment_3291334
"The game needs to be balanced around efficiency."
Unfortunately it most likely never will be because they want survivors having an edge to keep the good players interested.
-"I mean perks like this exist. Scourge hook: Gift of pain"
Here's the problem with this idea. Use a perk and hook anyone and get some benefit or hook one person with no perk required and get massive benefit. Which one is better?
Basekit the killer should have 1:1 repair with an alive surviovr if all 4 are alive. For every dead survivor the killer's regression should go down by half. Base kit the killer should get something better than (25% generator reduction) / (3 hooks) = ~8% slowdown base kit for a survivor's first hook if no one has been killed yet. Anything less than that means I should tunnel one person out.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3290851#Comment_3290851
-"Spirit, Pyramid Head, Artist, Plague, they are all really good and also played in tournaments constantly."
Let's say there is a tournament that allows 1 green/1yellow addon for the killer and the first round of knock out is on Artist map. Who will chose PH over Blight? Who will choose Plague over Nurse? Nobody. And while Artist is a good killer she is just mechanically inferior to Nurse and Blight (while he has hug tech).
If you could play any killer with any addons would people play those killers over Nurse and Blight? The answer is no 99.9% of the time for everyone on that list except potentially Spirit. The only problem is that she god hardcore nerfed with the directional phasing sounds.
-"That's the issue when you don't run corrupt, people will start doing the gen they spawned right next to"
This is a general game design issue. The killer should have gotten either Deadlock or Corrupt basekit in the 6.0 update. They didn't do that however because 1) they lock the good gen regression perks behind premium DLC killers. 2) survivors really hated playing against corrupt every game.
-"There are many onesided maps yes, but how is it fun just standing next to a hook?"
You're completely dodging the issue. Also survivors never consider your fun when they want to loop you for 3 gens and have everything done in four minutes with zero kills and approximately 2-3 chases.
If survivors stop doing generators and push as a team for an early rescue the person on the hook rarely goes to stage two. But survivors who play efficiently do not want to do that because it gives room for the killer to reset the progress on those generators. They want to finish the gens and then rescue right before stage two. Hook camping is a cycle created by efficient play that is reinforced by completely unbalanced map design.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3290706#Comment_3290706
Nightmare mode would be fun but you forgot one thing : first person camera for all players. Three and four man SWF groups would be pretty fair if they had to play with some elements of Nightmare mode.
Yeah sure those killers are worse than Blight and Nurse and Spirit... But they are not that much worse that average players like us would stand a chance against a comp player on Artist or something like, you're completely misjudging what those guys can do.
And for any killer with any addons... Do you have any idea how ridiculously strong MDR Spirit is dude? There are even people that think MDR Spirit is stronger than Nurse, that's how broken this addon is... And it is not weak players, it's guys with like 8k-10k hours that used to play tournaments that think that this could be possible.
You are seriously undestimating the impact of directional phasing on spirit... She still moves so fast that once the 2-3 god pallets on a map are down there is nothing else to hold her back, what does it matter if you know where she is when she moves at double your speed dude? If you haven't seen Hens' Spirit showcase already with comp players against each other it is really great to watch and shows that spirit is still one of the best killers in the game and perfectly viable in a comp setting and outside of it.
I don't really not about hate towards Corrupt? I mean I don't really mind it as survivor, I can either rush to a dangerous area where the killer is waiting or just do a totem or open a chest, I like corrupt and think it is a great perk, I just dislike it being disabled after getting one down since it limits its usage on good chase killers.
If you watch good coordinated survivors they will often go for the unhook rather early and not wait that long, because having someone dead on hook early on can be really devastating and they know this, however survivors without information perks or communication cannot know if somebody is already going for the unhook, which leads to those kinds of situations, so if solo had information if somebody is already on his way to unhook this would not happen as often anymore.
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I mean it is a 18+ rated game and we still need to be treated like children because words hurt and we cannot even disable this... I'm in my twenties and nothing some random child with terrible english writing can say will bother me in any way, so why do I have to go through all of this nonsense when it censors random stuff that is not even offensive, and no it is not reasonable to report every single word that occurs, why would I even have to? If you know the filter does not work killswitch it and figure out something else and don't let the community be your bug/play testers...
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290682#Comment_3290682
-"If one of us was to go against some 10k hours tournament player he would wipe the floor with us no matter what"
If the tournament player is a survivor then sure. If the tournament player is on killer and not playing Nurse/Blight or a killer with best in slot addons : Hell no.
-"I don't think it is viable to put limitations on SWF because if you give them a disadvatage for playing with friends that will hurt the player base."
DBD's killer base has been shrinking for 6 years because it is a constant one step forward and two steps back. The "miracle" 6.0 patch that was supposed to balance everything has put more power in the hands of survivors than killers. In my region killer is back to +100% bonus almost the entire day and never changes other than early mornings when survivor mains dabble in playing killer. Before the 6.0 patch we had people pinging the DBD servers to look who was in the queue. There were cases where there were about 5000 survivors in queue with 45 killers. That's the symptom of a problem that was also the death of VHS. Teens were waiting in line for 15 minutes to play a 5 minute game because nobody wanted to play monster.
Restricting SWF perks doesn't really hurt a 2 man SWF. There are so many perks to choose from that do very similar things. You can heal yourself with self care or inner healing. You can "sprint away" with : Balanced landing, Dead hard, Lithe, Sprint, Overcome and you could even try to make use of : Smash hit. The 2 man swf is the majority of the DBD player base. What this change would do is "nerf" 3 and 4 man SWF groups who quite honestly are having easy games anyway and probably deserve to get nerfed.
You also ignore the fact that the UI would be updated so you could see what perks your friends have in the lobby so you can strategize with their build without asking them what perks they are using (I mean hell they have this technology for DBD on the switch).
-if you camp/tunnel one guy out for like 3-4 minutes what else are the other guys supposed to do other than gens?
What game are you playing? Again : most of the time the first chase ends and 2-3 generators are almost completed in the next 20 to 30 seconds. If everyone left their generator to make sure the save happened then the killer could in theory go interrupt those generators from getting completed. But that does not happen. They stay and finish the gens so the killer stays on the hook. Then the survivor hits stage two and then the killers goes to the nearby generators waiting for the unhoook (after which he will complete the kill).
"I could not care less about winning or loosing, it is all about the chases"
Most of the maps in DBD are not fair to the majority of the killer cast. It has nothing to do with the killers' life that they want to have fun , play the game and have the potential to win too.
"Doing the most effective thing in this game is just terribly boring."
Tell that to the survivors who rush the generator objective and then get mad when the killer rushes their objective.
You are ignorant if you believe he would not also wipe the floor as killer with one of the top 10 killers with rather mediocre addons... Spirit, Pyramid Head, Artist, Plague, they are all really good and also played in tournaments constantly.
I don't know where you live, but over here it is the opposite, almost the entire time survivors are missing and late in the evening at around 10 pm it switches to killer sometimes.
I really don't like those generalizing statements, just because they play in a group does not mean they have easy games, maybe they are not good at playing survivor and get matched with killers out of their league, since matchmaking is a mess, it goes both ways dude...
"You also ignore the fact that the UI would be updated so you could see what perks your friends have in the lobby so you can strategize with their build without asking them what perks they are using (I mean hell they have this technology for DBD on the switch)."
Was never mentioned before, but would be a good idea in general, however I still don't think you should limit options.
"What game are you playing? Again : most of the time the first chase ends and 2-3 generators are almost completed in the next 20 to 30 seconds. If everyone left their generator to make sure the save happened then the killer could in theory go interrupt those generators from getting completed. But that does not happen. They stay and finish the gens so the killer stays on the hook. Then the survivor hits stage two and then the killers goes to the nearby generators waiting for the unhoook (after which he will complete the kill)."
That's the issue when you don't run corrupt, people will start doing the gen they spawned right next to. You can also finish the gen and get the rescue without letting them hit second stage rather easily...
"Most of the maps in DBD are not fair to the majority of the killer cast. It has nothing to do with the killers' life that they want to have fun , play the game and have the potential to win too.",
There are many onesided maps yes, but how is it fun just standing next to a hook? You are not doing anything at that point, you have more interaction holding down the w key while watching a movie then when you camp someone... The chases are the fun thing, when you have to play in a boring way to come out on top you may have won the game, but did you have fun? Because if you have fun playing boring then you are not enjoying the game, but just winning and that's really sad, because you prioritize winning over having fun.
"Tell that to the survivors who rush the generator objective and then get mad when the killer rushes their objective."
Seriously what else are they supposed to do? Even if they did all 5 boons it may not be enough to not call it genrushing or whatever... I had games where I did 5 boons and the killer still complained about genrushing... Like what else am I supposed to do? Go afk and make coffee?
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@MeltingPenguins said:
One thing that could be done here is a Nightmare Mode people have mused about here and there. Basically:
No red stain, no audible TR, no visible buffs/debuffs, no audible totems, generally no audio warning and different skillchecks (like they'd build up on screen gradually was an idea i have seen). perks like small game would work via the screen briefly twitching (as if your character tenses up), while aura reading would be completely disabled. There'd also be more means to fight back, all killers could climb dropped pallets, that sort of thing. Scratchmarks would be more vibrant (bloodhound's basekit here)
I don't know how many people would be interested in that, because that sounds awfull dude xD I want to watch a stream or video or listen to music while playing and I hate going against stealth killers because then I would need to pay attention therefore I would not want to play that mode xD
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
Nemesis and Wesker have two of the worst designed elements on a killer in the game (to include Nurse and all the other disliked killers in the roster).
I'll start with Nemesis and keep it very short: the zombies. The zombies are absolutely atrocious design, and rely entirely on RNG to either carry a game or throw it entirely. They can either get stuck completely in a corner of the map and do nothing all game, or bodyblock doors (with collision that never disables by the way) and pressure 2/3 gens on a 1-gen remaining scenario. There is absolutely no excuse for RNG to play such a large role in a game's outcome. I've had MANY games against Nemesis where the last gen could have been done three times over while Nemesis overcommitted to a chase, only for a zombie to wander back to the gen over and over again, and the team spending more time luring the zombie away only for it to come back than they do working on the gen. The most egregious case of a zombie interfering in the game is when they bodyblock a door to a structure (say shack) mid-chase with no recourse for the survivor. Nemesis can literally just stand still and bodyblock the survivor from the other side, sandwiching them between themselves and the zombie, and it's a guaranteed down.
Now for the most egregious design element in the game: Wesker's infection mechanic. I have many issues with the mechanical function of Wesker's power, but the worst one by FAR is how easily the killer can force a win by stacking slowdown perks and burn out the survivors' spray supply. There are 6 sprays on a map, 12 cures in total. 8 if Wesker uses Iridescent Uroboros Vial (which is probably his strongest addon btw). This means that all Wesker has to do is infect survivors 8 times while protecting a 3-gen (with Call of Brine/Eruption/Overcharge, this becomes a trivial task) to secure a guaranteed win. Being fully infected against Wesker is a death sentence in every aspect. In normal conditions, Wesker is 15% faster than you. When fully infected, Wesker is 25% faster than you. This makes it significantly easier to secure a hit. Not only this, but you are an insta-down if he hits you with his power, which is a much easier endeavor if you happen to be fully infected. In this regard, Wesker is a bit like an upside down Myers: Myers runs out of his power eventually, while survivors are limited in uses against Wesker's power. In this sense, he is the only killer in the game that can win by attrition alone. Any other killer that has a limited supply of "cures" to their power (such as the aforementioned Nemesis) don't have an infection mechanic anywhere near as oppressive as Wesker's. Being infected against Nemesis is an annoyance at best, being fully infected against Wesker is a guaranteed down. Plague has infinitely respawning fountains, Sadako has infinitely respawning TVs, Freddy has infinite TV spawns. Why is Wesker the only killer in the game that can guarantee a win if the game goes on for long enough?
Generally speaking you would need to play a hit and run playstyle if you wanted to burn through all of those cures, because getting a second hit with wesker after the first one usually does not last that long, his infection is mostly passive game delay. I don't think you should do that however since his overall map mobility is not that high to be that good for hit and run, so even though you are technically right you are also wrong in the sense that when he could afford to give up on chase and run around to find another survivor he would have probably been more succesfull by just finishing his first chase and hook the survivor.
"There is absolutely no excuse for RNG to play such a large role in a game's outcome. "
This map has way more rng than that... 1. Maps are vastly different balanced: Cowshed and shelter woods 2. The exact same map can be brokenly loaded or be completely empty and there are countless more bad rng things
In conclusion RNG is not only involved in Nemesis' terrible zombie AI.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290268#Comment_3290268
"-some people just want to play with others that know what they are doing. "
I completely understand as there is a MMR group that struggles severely in solo queue. The problem is when you get people with thousands of hours who play in a SWF to bully the killer. They don't even have to be swat teams doing clock call outs. They just have to be 20% more efficient on generators to make the game just incredibly stupid for killer. Merely calling out the killer's location a few times and the perks they are using along with coordinating saves/gens makes you 20-40% more efficient at the game. That isn't fair.
If SWF came with ANY kind of limitation that made solo queue better it would be a choice of "side grade" instead of pure upgrade. I have proposed before that SWF be limited by : no character, item, perk or offering repeats. That would be a very soft nerf to SWF that would prevent bullying and allow you to play with your friends.
High level play usually follows along the lines of downing one person and then 2-3 generators get done. Survivors don't attempt to rescue that survivor until that survivor is almost on stage two most of the time. This happens because they stayed on the generator an extra 15-20 seconds. The killer in turn needs to stay by the hook to force stage two on that survivor to punish "gens before friends". If possible they need to prevent the rescue until stage two and then allow it so they can tunnel that person out of the game.
Mathematically 3/5ths of an objective is more than 1/4th of an objective. Survivors push the game to this state and then wonder why the killer wants to tunnel. This also leads killers to say well : if people are going to play like that then I need to play Blight/Nurse every game.
The killer gets nothing for two hooks one one person and one hook on another person. That means the killer should always hook one person three times and ignore everyone else. The game rules need to change to make the killer have an alternative choice that is appealing as -25% generator reduction speed for hooking three different survivors one time.
People that are higher skilled than the killer and a severe way really don't need much to bully him... If one of us was to go against some 10k hours tournament player he would wipe the floor with us no matter what... Therefore restricting restricting him does not really mean anything. I don't think it is viable to put limitations on SWF because if you give them a disadvatage for playing with friends that will hurt the player base. You generally don't want to make it less attractive for people to play with friends no matter what. And to be honest those guys who are just that much better than the killer have two options 1. Do the gens in 5 minutes and escape with not much of a problem 2. Try to fool around and make stupid plays and so on... If you make it harder for them to do the second one what will they most likely do? Either try harder to make it still work or go for the alternative. That's exactly why comp needs restrictions, if it did not have those games would end in like 3-4 minutes easily.
Also honestly I hate the idea of dividing the playerbase in solos and people who play with friends... The issue is not people playing with friends, the issue is the game still has not recognized it needs to give solos some information to close the gap between these two groups of players and than balance around that.
"Mathematically 3/5ths of an objective is more than 1/4th of an objective. Survivors push the game to this state and then wonder why the killer wants to tunnel. This also leads killers to say well : if people are going to play like that then I need to play Blight/Nurse every game."
The problem with that statement is some people use it even though their situation does not really apply if you camp/tunnel one guy out for like 3-4 minutes what else are the other guys supposed to do other than gens? It is their main objective and you did not put any pressure on those guys...
"The killer gets nothing for two hooks one one person and one hook on another person. That means the killer should always hook one person three times and ignore everyone else. The game rules need to change to make the killer have an alternative choice that is appealing as -25% generator reduction speed for hooking three different survivors one time."
If the killer wants to win that much sure dude... But I could not care less about winning or loosing, it is all about the chases... If somebody really wants to camp and tunnel that hard he can hook me as well for free since I'm not invested at all into surviving and when his life is so sad that he wants to win at all costs than so be it... I don't play to escape I play to have fun, and when the killer decides to just balatantly tunnel someone out and the best thing to do about that is just sit on gens than this is boring af and I'm not gonna bother... He can have his win, if it makes his sad life better and I can go next hoping for some chases... Doing the most effective thing in this game is just terribly boring.
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@ProveKa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289080#Comment_3289080
You're still cunning.No matter what I tell you here, you will understand what you want to understand.The subject need not go any further, nurse is the weakest
If you don't elaborate further I cannot take you seriously dude... You don't even point out which parts exactly I'm ignoring according to you or where I'm going wrong so what is there to argue about... You could as well just say "You're wrong" and not say anything else... Would not bring the debate any further as well.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290254#Comment_3290254
some people already used to complain about why should they be forced to look down after blinks... I think you would understand why. Anyway as I said before - I would go for changing stuff on existing nurse instead of redesigning her into different killer
But at least after the blink your screen only becomes dark and not blurry, that's way better...
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Just because people are playing in a swf does not mean they always use coms, some people just want to play with others that know what they are doing... Also if we look at really skilled survivor players like Hens or Zubat you will see them solo most of the time, since playing in a swf with other really really good people just becomes doing gems simulator and that's really boring, I think Hens said something between those lines when he was asked why they did the escape streak only once a week.
And even if solo kept its information advantage in the way you want it what keeps people from just writing in chat on which dbd channel to join and then use comms anyway? No matter if solo or swf if people really want to use communication they already can...