Archol123
Archol123
About
- Username
- Archol123
- Joined
- Visits
- 4,490
- Last Active
Comments
-
@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298003#Comment_3298003
Tell me you are a Nurse main without telling me you are a Nurse main.
Sure dude because keeping perks usable on a killer that are not the strongest ones for that specific killer is definitely objectively the best choice.
Every killer that runs sloppy and jolt over call of brine and eruption creates a less annoying situation for the survivors and removing that would just make people run more of those better perks... Against jolt you can at least take the killer to an area where gens are not being worked on... Against eruption there is nothing you can do without comms to know when sB is about to go down...
-
That was 6 months ago, so I would not count on it happening... I think there was another post a few months later where they stated they were looking into it, not Necessarily removing it.
As stated in the video shacks collision has nothing to do with hug tech, but with sliding along it because of bad collision. Also there was a stream of Scott jund I think a few years ago where McLean was in chat and tols him to look down to ignore collision, therefore it seemed somewhat intended to me.
Not even comp players knew when old spirit was phasing, so I don't think you can say good players where listening to her foodsteps...
Blight is one of the mechanically most challenging killers in the game, he is not easy to player properly.
No killer should have 105% ms...
Killers that are as hard as Blight or Billy to master should reflect the effort you have to put into them.
Also getting hits with bump logic is far more reliable then hug tech... And especially on weaker blight players trying techs will often not work constantly.
As for lilith omen he is a streamer and generally considered as one of the best blight players in the game... Probably is for Blight what Alf is for Nurse.
-
@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299093#Comment_3299093
All the nerfs that I am suggesting would take nurse down from S tier to A- tier. That would be good for the game overall. Remove all the things that are head and shoulders above everything else and make it so that most things are near the same level of "goodness".
Along with Nurse being gutted we would treat Blight the same way. Maybe for example he needs to lose the ability to slam into pallets and break them (along with hug tech : which has already been confirmed that it will be removed).
And then we nerf SWF so that it doesn't have a massive advantage. That makes killer more fun and it makes playing as a solo feel like you are not "missing out" because the SWF can't run any duplicate perks or items.
-"However, we must not forget that the survivors are also able to : - communicate with each other"
As it stands now Nurse and Blight are the only fair killers to play against a 3 or 4 man SWF. Nerf SWF, Blight and Nurse and everything else gets better by proxy. SWF would be much weaker if they could not repeat any perks or items.
"There is no problem with the nurse starting with 2 blinks."
There is a huge problem. She isn't a build up killer and Nemesis is. If nurse can start with 2 blinks then Nemesis should just not even have a buildup mechanic. Make his whip be T3 length (with the higher movement speed) the entire game and make him always have the ability to instantly break pallets.
Nurse is the best killer in the game. There is no reason for her not to be a build up killer. Make Michael Myers start in "tier 2" with full move speed as the new "T1". Or he could just be 5% slower in T1 and then plays the rest of the game 5% faster when he gets out of T2. Either option would be fair.
"In general, just because some killers don't have something that Nurse has, doesn't mean that it should be treated as a race to the bottom."
The nerfs I propose to Nurse would not put her on the bottom. She would still be a solid "A tier" killer. She would be harder to use but still have very high reward when you play her well.
I am well aware of the Hens game you mentioned. And there's another good game by Hens where he plays no perk Nurse vs a 4 man team (named something like Nurse is OP). That game highlights three things :
1) crow map is too big for killers without movement speed : cut it down to 9500m² or less.
2) SWF is too strong and needs adjustment (no repeats as a start)
3) Nurse is too strong relative to all other killers.
"(along with hug tech : which has already been confirmed that it will be removed)."
As far as I'm aware it is only confirmed that they wanted to look into it, which is not the same as removing it... So where did you get that part from?
Also if you haven't already watched it, this video of lilithOmen about the topic is quite informative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9B7aYLys9s -
@Little_Kitten said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298413#Comment_3298413
It's true, especially since it would distort theses killers' MMR... possibly a lower bonus, which wouldn't make you want to farm with them...🤔
I mean... Honestly as soon as I get more bp by dying to endgame than for escaping I'm not leaving that match xD Escaping means nothing to me xD
I don't think the mmr is the problem here, because that system already does not really work properly... So I don't think it matters much... Especially since it only considers kills or escapes it does not measure individual skill or how you got to the result... So the 4k hours curve billy can have the same mmr as the bubba that is facecamping with NOED, No way out, Deadlock and Corrupt. Even though one of them is obviously far more skilled... The mmr can be distorted into oblivion and it would not realy matter.
-
@Little_Kitten said:
By the way, folks, what do you think of the following proposition? 🤗
I had indicated, in another thread, the possibility of also thinking in terms of "rewards".
Let me explain.
We know that the game's podium consists of the Nurse, the Blight and the Spirit.
Here is a reward that the survivors could have when they face one of these 3 killers:
- if the killer makes 0 or 1 kill: no bonus
- if the killer makes 2 kills: the BP gained by the survivors are doubled
- if the killer makes 3 or 4 kills: the BP gained by the survivors are tripled
Variant :
- if the killer makes 3 kills: the BP (survivors) are tripled
- if the killer makes 4 kills: the BP (survivors) are quadrupled
PS : From the moment one (or more) survivor leaves the game before the end, the bonuses are canceled.
From the moment one (or more) survivor fails ALL his attempts to escape from the hook, the bonuses are canceled.
That's not a good idea.... I think it would provoke farming or at least giving the killer the kill anyway.. because the bp bonus is higher than the reward for escaping at that point. And I think most people don't care about escaping that much that they would not take the bonus 50k bp for free.
-
- "But you're still stuck is said habit as, in that same comment, you acknowledged neither the fact that she was kidnapped "Her kidnappers kept her chained to the wall in a flooded cellar." -https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Lisa_Sherwood#Lore, nor the fact that the symbols she draws were from the elders and not the kidnappers.
And thats what I said:
The hag is a witch that got taught symbols of protection and so on in her village, ofc I would assume those symbols only got power because of the entitys influence after her demise, but still I would think the name does hint towards her being a witch. And I would not call the people she lived with cultists, that has a somewhat negative connotation. Those protective signs seem more like making a cross as a christian when you encounter something unholy.
So you didn't read properly, because I said she was taught in her village? And what do the kidnappers have to do with this? She is a witch because she knows magic signs I guess.
"And your comparisons are bad; Nurse is better than Slinger and that's an obvious fact."
I did not say anything else, I only said that a certain way of trying to make the killers life harder does work better on nurse Slinger when you have more distance on the nurse since she needs to blink to catch up and slinger does not.
- "The explanation I give is recieved with a "doesn't work like that" or an "I don't understand" followed by a "point" not made in the previous comment.
"
Your explanation just ignored 1. the whole math on being able to react to a shot 2. That there is nothing to read when it is an insta shoot and 3. Faking stuff does not really matter if all the killer has to do to still get a hit is to just be patient.
So maybe your explanation is just terrible and that's why I said it does not apply.
@Anomalist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298188#Comment_3298188
People don't understand that Slinger is a gambling Killer when using his power; you either predict where the Survivor is going or you miss. Good Survivors would see you aiming or predict your shot, fake their pathing in one chase and then commit in another; that leaves Slinger guessing and the Survivors would be mentally challenged in a good way.
If people, at this is all it really boils down to, just got good then half the complaints in the game would already be "fixed". Slinger is almost a three year old Killer that people could've, just gotten good against if they actually tried. Shame the 4:1 ratio had the devs caring more for the whiny Survivors.
There was no getting good against getting insta shot...
@Anomalist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298240#Comment_3298240
No slowdown, no gen control, a very limited range, 110% move speed, 32 meter Terror Radius, punished hard for missing and sometimes for hitting with his power, struggles on medium to large maps; need I say more? Whoever you got "strong B tier" from is either a DBD streamer, who is supposed to be good and better than most, or you got it from some sketchy website saying "DBD'S TOP KILLERS TIER LIST REVEALED!?!". Pick your poison.
SoloQ and Swf have nothing to do with this so whatever point that was gonna be is invalid.
The devs only recently remembered that this is a game based on killing and surviving. If you don't like that the powerhouse role supposed to be stronger than the other, quit playing. How many times have Survivors threatened to quit playing? Stop crying crocodile tears.
Basically every single killer in the game struggles on large maps... So I don't think that's a good point. But yeah sure he has no map pressure, but that applies to many killers in the game, does not necessarily say he is bad.
"Whoever you got "strong B tier" from is either a DBD streamer, who is supposed to be good and better than most, or you got it from some sketchy website saying "DBD'S TOP KILLERS TIER LIST REVEALED!?!". Pick your poison. Whoever you got "strong B tier" from is either a DBD streamer, who is supposed to be good and better than most, or you got it from some sketchy website saying "DBD'S TOP KILLERS TIER LIST REVEALED!?!". Pick your poison."
I mean the tiers itself are subjective... I would have said slinger is probably around average slightly above or below maybe. Overall a solid killer but not opressive in the 4v1. However if a streamer that is good with every killer (I assume you mean it like that and not like a Deathslinger main) rates killer they usually take in to account all killers and therefore try to somewhat objectively take their strenght compared to each other into account. I mean ofc Tierlists take into account that you have basically mastered the killer.. Otherwise hillbilly would be even lower and so on... What else are you supposed to base your tierlist on?
-
@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297703#Comment_3297703
-"The nurse's first blink is, in most cases, only to get closer to her target. It is with the 2nd blink that she will lock on to her target and deliver her shot."
Which means that she would require a perfect long single blink to get a hit. Translation : she would now have an incredibly rough game start.
As a survivor I had zero problems with nurse other than nonsense like double range before the 6.0 change. Why? Because I ran spine chill for 6 years. It was 100% the hard counter perk to both Nurse and Spirit. If nurse had the right blink angle your cat lit up. If not then you just walked away if uninjured after breaking line of sight.
-"The nurse doesn't need to be slowed down any more than that after a hit"
That is not an opinion most people share. She can have the fastest two hit in the game other than Huntress - who I am proposing would also have the same cool down on with a hatchet that she has for an M1 attack. This would require the nurse to spend one or two cycles to catch up before they could attempt a 2 blink attack. This would make Nurse feel far less oppressive and create more room for counterplay.
"-There is no reason to touch her addons."
Nurse and Blight have addons with 30-50% effects. Meanwhile we have killers like pig that have 3-9% effects. Nurse addons don't need to affect distance or cooldown. You can make hits with perfect play. Buffing these two parts of her kit is what makes her oppressive.
-"Again, Nurse needs her second blink to secure her shot, unless she's lucky,"
You forgot the option where she's really good. Rewarding first hit blinks would make her kit harder to use. The problem is that relying on two blinks to hit is honestly a skill issue. See examples of good nurses in action.
-"And again, for all the people who suggest turning her M1s into M2s: there is no good reason to do that"
The strongest killer in the game who has the shortest chases in the hands of a good player should not be getting easy gen regression. The strongest killer in the game should not be getting 1 hit downs - except via NOED or Make your Choice.
"The strongest killer in the game who has the shortest chases in the hands of a good player should not be getting easy gen regression. The strongest killer in the game should not be getting 1 hit downs - except via NOED or Make your Choice."
Jolt and Sloppy are still far less opressive than the current gen kick meta... So I don't really know if it helps to remove her ability to use weaker perks... Exposed perks of course are a problem however.
-
@Anomalist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298178#Comment_3298178
The first two paragraphs are countered by a single thing; it's called positioning. If the Killer is approaching, you run away. This works with all Killers.
Line #3 doesn't mean a thing because even the M1 Killers are going to walk at you "normally".
Line #4 is incorrect in every way; please realize what is wrong with it as I'm only going to tell you where you're wrong and not why you're wrong anymore.
You are eventually going to be in a distance of below 10 m to the killer, thats just how loops are designed, you cannot keep him 20 m away from you at all time. That's just not a thing... Yes pre-running can work, but is pre running a fun and interactive thing to do? No it is boring af, the looping is the fun part, but when looping is basically getting insta shot that's not fun either.
Yeah but an M1 killer needs to get into a specific lunge distance that can often be prevented by looping tiles properly, that's not really the case for slinger as he used to be.
I disagree with your statement to line 4, stating that sb. is wrong is useless if you don't explain why, it is not a discussion than but just kindergarden behaviours "you're wrong..." "no you're wrong"... If you have wanna go down that path sure mate go for it.
-
@ScØØby said:
@Archol123 you make a point but you are implying that Slinger has to be within 10M. What Slinger have you ever played against that only ever shoots at you when they are within the humanly impossible range of dodging?
I don't care if the lord says its impossible to dodge Slingers attacks within 10M I've done it, you've done it, probably every person has done it once so its not impossible.
The Developers should bring it back for a weekend and do a poll on how it changed the killer meta, Killer pick-rate, Killer Kill-rate, Survivor Perk usage, etc. Would be funny to see if Slinger came back and not to much has changed.
Nurse is insane to play against the strategy is go crazy, go stupid be unpredictable, that's a similar strategy to out-play slinger, whenever you are in a tight spot most slingers play like a huntress, taking shots around corners through small gaps in loops, slinger was nasty to play against if you had a Slinger Main, which maybe like 2 people in Central America might be an old Slinger main, so you wouldn't see him too often.
If you see a Slinger now its a yawn, oh which button am I going to push for 0.2 Seconds to dodge your projectile "A or D", before it was take a corner wide, double back here or there. Now its still "A or D" to counter the killer. Holding W is a death sentence but what player sees a ranged killer and holds W.
It's the most safe thing to shoot at that distance, of course you can try shooting before. But you basically got a free hit at that distance, and probably even higher, just because it would be very hard to dodge even at higher distances. You might have avoided a hit, but you did not react to it, that's just not the same thing. Reacting to it is humanly impossible, you cannot argue against the math at that point... If you see something happening that gets proven incorrect by math/physics then either the laws of physics are wrong or what you have seen has a different cause.
Back then it was constant ads spamming and a shot at some point to which reacting was basically impossible, it was terrible.
-
@Anomalist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298163#Comment_3298163
So in this context, does broken mean the same thing as when people talk about Nurse or is it used because Survivors made it seem "broken"? Where does the line between "broken" and players being bad get drawn?
Can you or can you not actively react to a shot that is being shot at you by deathslinger from ~10 m away? As mathematically proven before there is a critical distance below which it is humanly impossible to react to the shot. Is it broken that the survivor gets 0 indication about that shot, that is about to happen and he cannot react to? I would say yes. If it is humanly impossible to react to the shot then player skill does not matter so what is even the point about players being bad here?
Imagine it like this... Killer is just following you in a straight line you know he will get a free hit as soon as he reaches the critical distance to you just that the criticla distance is not lunge range but the 9.2m or what it was above at which you cannot react to the shot, not even crouch dodge it. Before that point you might be able to dodge it, if you get lucky. But he can already shoot you before, so you kind of need to look back to get those few milliseconds extra to see the windup, just that the windup does not mean he will shoot, because it takes so little time to wind up and the slowdown is neglectable, so what keeps him from constantly raising and lowering the gun for 0.1 seconds or so? He barely gets slowed down for doing that and when the survivor just keeps running in a straight line he can at one point just not lower it but shoot and the chance to dodge that is rather minimal...
The problem with breaking line of sight is that he can just follow you normally and you leave scratchmarks so you're not gonna loose him and he is gonna catch up to you until you are in shooting range. There was just not much from an interactive point of view.
At least against nurse the whole breaking line of sight does work regardless of how far she is from you... And you will not loose the distance you will loose when you are playing against slinger.
-
@Anomalist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298095#Comment_3298095
- I don't think you understood my point and I don't think you understand what an omen is.
- Repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't immediately win the arguement; it only shows it's fragility if it all leads back to the same "problem" despite having simple and effective counterplay.
Let's go back for a second. Nomen est omen = Name is omen; an omen is "an event regarded as a portent of good or evil" or "prophetic significance". Every Killer has an omen, synonymous for sign, signal, hint, etc, that tells their power; however you're trying to redirect it only to the name of the Killer instead of including their lore as well.
If you took a read at the lore of the Survivor's and Killer's then you'd know that the Killer names are just nicknames. The Hag was a young lady and is only a Hag because she was kidnapped and starved by cultists. DeathSlinger is a Harvard graduate who became an engineer, got scammed by a corporate suit, jailed, became a bounty hunter for the Warden, and then killed them both for trying to betray him again. Hag knows how to do magic because she was with cultists for years and Slinger would know how to quick draw because he was forced to be a bounty hunter with a gang big enough to raid a jail.
When you are stuck to taking things at face value, you're overall hurting your own understanding as words can mean many other things than just what you think.
How do you go about dodging Huntress, Trickster, Nemesis, Plague? Survivors are in third person for a reason. Killers are locked to about 70 FOV while Survivors can view about 180 degrees out. If you're not willing to use your eyes to watch the Killer's movement, then you're obviously not using your brain to think of a plan to get away. You also forget the fact that when you're being aimed at by Slinger as a Survivor, you'll hear a whistle; another Omen that gives him away. Before you say "but that doesn't help if he's insta-shot"; he isn't anymore, is he?
Slinger's only buff was that he went from 75% to 85% MS when Aiming; almost certain that this means he was just as slow, if not slower than Survivors. Slinger didn't even work with his own perks and barely works with them post buff. The only thing Slinger had was Stealth from other perks and insta-scope. Either lower his TR, increase his speed to 115%, or bring back his insta-scope.
What I meant with that latin saying is that the name already is quite accurate in describing the killer... I just used that saying in that sense, you're kind of reading too much into it here. And by saying the name already describes the killer well I do of course not take anything else into account, because the name is the only thing the saying is taking into account... I don't really get your point here. Also I'm not sure if you did not take the word omen out of the context of the latin saying. Because that saying literally just means something like "It fits its name". And that only takes the name into account.
The hag is a witch that got taught symbols of protection and so on in her village, ofc I would assume those symbols only got power because of the entitys influence after her demise, but still I would think the name does hint towards her being a witch. And I would not call the people she lived with cultists, that has a somewhat negative connotation. Those protective signs seem more like making a cross as a christian when you encounter something unholy.
As far as I can read in the wiki Deathslingers father was an engineer... The word "Harvard" does not even come up in the wiki, so I don't know where you got that from? (https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Caleb_Quinn) . I can agree with the rest though. Also I think 0.4 seconds is quite quick already, how quick do you think is quick drawing? I mean he does not just simply hold up his gun and then aim but both in one, I think that is rather quick.
"You also forget the fact that when you're being aimed at by Slinger as a Survivor, you'll hear a whistle; another Omen that gives him away. Before you say "but that doesn't help if he's insta-shot"; he isn't anymore, is he?"
I don't really understand what you want by saying that? I didn't complain about current slinger at all but only about how he used to be when insta shooting was a thing? Neither did I complain about the need to look back, so I don't really get your point right here? And I would not call it an omen but a hint. (Omen would be something like a foreshadowing in that context whereas it is simply a audio indicator that slinger raised his gun, similar to huntress raising a hatched or having the hatchet fully charged).
Slingers perks are overall not too good, current DMS is not as good as the old one, Retribution is okayish and gearhead is just not that good. I also agree that 32 m didn't need to be, it could have been 30 or 28 just so you cannot easily shoot people from outside your terror radius. But I completely disagree with the option of bringing back insta shooting... We can discuss about most things but I'm gonna die on that hill saying that insta shooting was a terrible mechanic and it's good that it's gone.
-
@Anomalist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297994#Comment_3297994
The things you said work in theory, but then get ruined when put into actual practice; you're not hitting a shot through the boarded up shack window against anyone with a brain.
Trapper has traps and Wraith is phantom-like; two examples of nomen est omen in your context. The Artist draws birds with her ink, Hag looks old and decrepit, LeatherFace wears faces and I feel like that's plenty enough examples of their names being a sign of thematic and power relevance.
Get anyone who hasn't played the game to guess the powers and looks of the Killers just from their names alone and 9/10 they'll get everything wrong. Do it again but this time present pictures and descriptions of their powers and ask them to match name, power, and picture; people who understand context clues will make this test more successful than the previous one.
As I said before, Survivors refused to learn how to counter Slinger and instead positioned themselves where every other ranged Killer would get a hit too. A Killer is not strong because Survivors are bad and losing, A Killer is strong when Survivors bring the strongest perks, items, and offerings and still losing.
I don't know how hag is translated in other languages, but it seems to be rather like witch. But Deathslinger is a cowboy/bounty hunter with a gun, what else do you want? The name might somewhat give a hint about the theme but you cannot get out exact specifics about the killers power. The doctor is most likely not acting according to the hippocratic oath its more about what they look like and what their thing is in general. I do think it is possible to get such hits, just because many people don't even know that it is possible or are at least not aware of the killer even trying... So I guess you could get a shot through there at times.
There was no way to counter old slinger, how often do we have to go over that... He had 0 warning before shooting, how do you react to that? Taking line of sight blockers would maybe delay him, but since he does not get slowed down he will eventually catch up... So by doing that you don't really counter him. You just loose a lot of distance and he will catch up to you regardless, until he is in a position where he can just instashoot you with no way of reacting to the shot. The only way to do something about his shots was holding w to a high wall structure and blocking his line of sight until he finally gets a shot. Faking a window wouldn't do anything because he just needs to be patient to get the hit.
-
@Anomalist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297795#Comment_3297795
Literally every other ranged Killer can do what Slinger did to a certain degree, if not better than he could; please read the entirety of my comment.
Slinger is still a better killer than Nemesis or Trickster. He can shoot through tiny holes. Unlike Nemesis crouching does not just miss a shot unless you got really unlucky and aimed too high. Also the 5-6m range on Nemesis can be really rough on some tiles, where it is just not enough to get the hit. I would say he is somewhere in the middle of them below huntress, artist, pyramid head and plague but still better than Nemesis and Trickster. Huntress has a really long wind up time and slinger makes it easier to know precisely where you're aiming at. Slinger does not need to abandon chase to reload, like Huntress and Trickster. He can even use this to his advantage when the survivor cannot really make it to another safe structure instead and just keep them in a place after missing a shot.
I did read the entirety of the comment, but the theme or the name of the killer does not say much about the killers power. This is not nomen est omen. Slinger can still do great stuff, he is just less BS now because he at least gives a warning, gameplay wise they needed to get rid of insta shooting. And when it comes to the theme he is not holding a revolver, so winding up and putting the gun in place obviously takes a little bit longer. I mean sure his terror radius did not necessarily need to become 32 m, but I understand that they wanted to get rid of the possibility to get shot from outside his terror radius...
-
@Sava18 said:
I want a full rework of the character, not a bhvr rework where they do an add-on pass and change 1-2 things base kit(what a joke rework). She should have a different power entirely.
So you want an entirely new killer, while they pump out a new killer every 3 months... I guess ask Santa or something because I don't think it is realistic to assume that will happen... I think her basekit is fine and you can loop/delay her so I don't see reason to do much.
-
@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
As I'm sure others have said, the main problem with nurse is that she's one of the few (if not the only) killers whose power counts as a basic attack.
As Pig I move slightly faster for a short time and I hit a survivor, I don't instantly down them even with Exposed, because Exposed requires a basic attack.
Yet, Nurse literally TELEPORTS to the survivor faster than Pig can even blink (pun not intended) and because she then gets a basic attack, the survivor is downed instantly.
So yea, as both a Killer and Survivor player, I think the main change that needs to happen with Nurse is to bring her in line with every other killer and make her attacks count as special attacks until after her fatigue.
The problem is her blinks are the only reasonable way to hit survivors at all, since her ms is slwoer than the survivors so if it were special attacks all exposed perks would be useless, which is probably why they don't want to make that change. But from a gameplay perspective it would be a good change to prevent her from using exposed. And spirit moves even faster than pig and can still use exposed perks.
-
@ScØØby said:
for real I think the Deathslinger would have an easier time growing up in the late 1990's early 2000's then existing in his state.
I think the problem with his design is just that mechanics that close to ego shooters don't fit the game, because in a normal ego shooter the one aims better and shoots faster usually comes out on top, but that just does not apply here, you cannot shoot back and even if you react faster than the other guy in general, it does not matter since you could have only reacted to what he did and his projectile was too fast to react to and the other stuff he could do was not a clear indicator. It would be similar if you play counter strike and the Terrorists are invisible until 0.25 seconds before the shot hits you thats a similar amount of time you had against old slinger to react to something xD
-
@Anomalist said:
Change DeathSlinger's name to anything else that doesn't have the inclusion of "Slinger" on it; only then will the ads + fire time nerf make even the slightest bit of sense. DeathSlinger is quite literally a Gun Slinger; someone who is known for being quick on the draw and still shooting well.
Slinger is currently a tall, 110% MS Killer with a 32 meter terror radius. The Redeemer only shoots up to 18 meters, has a thinner hitbox than most other projectiles, is only lethal if 1. the Survivor doesn't mend or 2. the Survivor is within M1 reach.
If we look at other Killers with a ranged option in their arsenal, the Slinger is outdone at nearly everything. Nemesis tiers up to get less ms reduction and can break pallets. Huntress has circular hitboxes on her hatchets. Trickster is Trickster, need I say more about him. Artist has map wide range and can have 3 projectiles at once. Plague can constantly keep Survivors injured and, let's be honest, she doesn't get enough flak for having a liquid trail with a BS hitbox. Pyramid Head can go through walls and can double as a quick hook. Artist, Nemesis, and Pyramid Head are all 115% that can ignore pallets and/or shoot through walls while have lethal powers.
Thematically and gameplay wise, Slinger never should've gotten an ads nerf. His best addons are reload and miss delay reduction and even then those only go up to green. A single digit percentage MS increase while ads'ing means nothing if you're power slows you down. Chain breaking stun is only good when you've got unsafe pallets. Mangled and hemorrhage mean nothing if you don't get hit, have a boon, or a medkit. This isn't Legion so mend timer increase is blegh. TR decreasing while aiming; as if you'll ever be sneaky enough on a wide open map. Reel speed is fine.
He got nerfed because people didn't want to adapt to faking windows and not running in a straight line and that's all his nerf will ever be.
"He got nerfed because people didn't want to adapt to faking windows and not running in a straight line and that's all his nerf will ever be."
The problem is he does not need to pre-emptively shoot, so even if you fake the window he could just havewaited for you to be locked in animation and should you instantly, because no windup or wait a few seconds and get the hit then if you didn't take the window after all... How are you adapting if it is a loose loose situation anyway? Also running in a straight line was all there was to do since as I already explained it was not humanly possible to reaction dodge it. So if you cannot dodge it... And he does not get slowed down for quickly winding up... That creates a situation were you will loose distance if you try to make yourself harder to hit and by that become easier to hit after some time, because he can either just M1 you or wait until you reach a small path or tile where you cannot dodge. Because he will gain distance while you dodge nothing. It was just terrible design from an objective standpoint. That's why it was free to get hits on him, and why many people did not like him, there was no skill involved in those situations.
-
@ScØØby said:
@Anomalist I see your a man of culture as well, but I doubt we will ever get the ADS nerfed, I want him back, but majority of the survivor community doesn't want him back.
The Dev's should hold 2 separate polls for survivor and killer asking about this, Probably all killers say revert his changes, and most survivors will say he is ok change something else about him. :(
Hell no dude, I play him sometimes and I'm happy it is not as stupid as it was. That thing was just stupid, just because a change makes your position better does not mean you automatically think it is a good change. I mean most people play both sides anyway, so they mostly want a balanced game for both sides.
-
@Anomalist said:
Change DeathSlinger's name to anything else that doesn't have the inclusion of "Slinger" on it; only then will the ads + fire time nerf make even the slightest bit of sense. DeathSlinger is quite literally a Gun Slinger; someone who is known for being quick on the draw and still shooting well.
Slinger is currently a tall, 110% MS Killer with a 32 meter terror radius. The Redeemer only shoots up to 18 meters, has a thinner hitbox than most other projectiles, is only lethal if 1. the Survivor doesn't mend or 2. the Survivor is within M1 reach.
If we look at other Killers with a ranged option in their arsenal, the Slinger is outdone at nearly everything. Nemesis tiers up to get less ms reduction and can break pallets. Huntress has circular hitboxes on her hatchets. Trickster is Trickster, need I say more about him. Artist has map wide range and can have 3 projectiles at once. Plague can constantly keep Survivors injured and, let's be honest, she doesn't get enough flak for having a liquid trail with a BS hitbox. Pyramid Head can go through walls and can double as a quick hook. Artist, Nemesis, and Pyramid Head are all 115% that can ignore pallets and/or shoot through walls while have lethal powers.
Thematically and gameplay wise, Slinger never should've gotten an ads nerf. His best addons are reload and miss delay reduction and even then those only go up to green. A single digit percentage MS increase while ads'ing means nothing if you're power slows you down. Chain breaking stun is only good when you've got unsafe pallets. Mangled and hemorrhage mean nothing if you don't get hit, have a boon, or a medkit. This isn't Legion so mend timer increase is blegh. TR decreasing while aiming; as if you'll ever be sneaky enough on a wide open map. Reel speed is fine.
He got nerfed because people didn't want to adapt to faking windows and not running in a straight line and that's all his nerf will ever be.
He got nerfed because 0 warning on his shots was stupid as hell... It is 0.4 seconds of wind up, every other range killer has more or slower projectiles... I think 0.4 seconds is really fast dude xD
-
@AverageAshEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297592#Comment_3297592
As I said, she needs to be more in line with other killers. It has come to a point where the devs have to nerf perks just because of her. In terms of strength, I don't think base nurse is too oppressive though
Yes, but they could have also just changed how exposed perks work on her blink? Instead of changing the perk... I mean... would have been the better choice, but I don't see why that example makes a complete rework necessary?
-
@Xendritch said:
I feel like making Nurse 110% with one blink is an idea, the only concern then would be she might be nuts with STBFL where you could get a hit recover quickly and instantly blink on to the survivor again but I think something like that would be worth testing at least.
But with 110 she does not care about line of sight anymore... Since she can follow until the blink is basically a safe hit...
-
@ScØØby said:
Alright fellas its been a while since we discussed actual buffs and nerfs for Deathslinger.
It's just reaction time, ping, input delays, etc.
Back to the main topic how would you buff Slinger to be more viable and not so garbage.
I think smaller terror radius seems fitting, more unique add-ons to be added and the reload and wheel in speed add-ons to be base kit, Maybe the Iridescent Helliron add-on which is actually garbage for an add-on could be re-worked to a token base ADS reduction add-on. Each time you successfully hit a shot your ADS is reduced by a very small amount and can go up to maybe 4 or 5 Tokens. Lets say 1/3 reduction to the ADS but a shot missed will disregard all tokens.
Seems fair how often will you see a slinger that will scope you from 18 Metres away, this encourages him to get closer allowing you to get to a safer or more dense loop, giving him a choice of hit now or miss and let you get further away and lose all tokens.
I don't think every match you will get a Slinger that plays CS:GO religiously and the Iridescent add-on is less likely to appear as its rarity, may get one or two every bloodweb level.
Seems like a cool idea we might be able to re-live a small part of slinger before the 5.3.0 patch.
Not as busted by the difference in ADS time will probably make a good difference.
Anyway let us know your ideas he needs some loving but nothing crazy.
I think something other than changing the Ads, because 0.4 seconds is already not that long. A bit of an increase in the real of speed is fine though. Maybe even something like th longer you hold ads the more it zooms in? Don't know if that would do much but it might help with a precise shot?
-
@AverageAshEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297403#Comment_3297403
It's possible for multiple things to be a problem at the same time. And also, MDR and *insert any OP blight addon* are just addons where as nurse is an entire killer
Yes ofc but I would say that with just an addon pass and some basekit changes you could also nerf her without needing to rework her entirely, so that's why I am asking why you think it cannot be solved with changing some of her existing parts. I think basekit nurse without addons is not that oppresive..
-
I mean you already are able to get 6 traps by using two addons, you don't get that much more with this addon but loosing so much ms is huge.
-
@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297525#Comment_3297525
The upside kind of is powerful tho? Having unlimited/reusable beartraps is kind of a big deal but also reasonable with all the tradeoffs (which would still be worth it for a purple addon)
Basically the maximum of bear traps you can use per match is 8, unless you only do slugging. And I think the slowdown to 4.4 m/s is just really a lot. That would hurt your chase so much and pigs chase is already not good.
-
@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297302#Comment_3297302
I mean don't forget that the player would then have a movement speed of 4.4m/s so it's easier to get away and the fact that a gen needs to be done first to activate the trap, I don't think it would be that OP with those tradeoffs as well imo
I don't like the idea of turning her into a 4.4 m/s killer... I would rather keep the bonus the addon gives lower than implementing this downside. Because thats just such a massive downside that the upside would have to be ridiculous.
-
@AverageAshEnjoyer said:
She needs a full on rework. Something to make her more in line with the rest of the killers. I don't know how but I reckon BHVR would be able to figure something out.
A lot of people have suggested that her blinks shouldn't count as basic attacks but she needs MUCH more than that.
Do you really think she is that much better than MDR spirit or Blight with his best addons? Because I don't think she is.
-
@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296379#Comment_3296379
I am aware of how distortion works, thank you. Unfortunately most killers seem to have eyeballs and they spot me running. Before distortion had infinite tokens I advocated for it to have an small AoE but I no longer think that's necessary.
When did it have infinite tokens?
-
@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296665#Comment_3296665
Oni buildup is ok actually. He is risk/reward. balanced.
I'm not saying something against that, I'm just saying that because he needs buildup it is fine that his power is the strongest in the game. And limiting other killers powers in a similar way might be too much.
Even though I admit it would be kind of cool to have for example an Oni addon that removes your power to insta down but you have the power the entire game... I don't know how strong that would be... Map traversal and anti loop would be ridiculous but he would need two hits so...
-
@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296667#Comment_3296667
I'm agreeing with u on the dash could use some work, why is it such a far fetched idea to buff Amanda's secret as well?
Yeah sure we can debate that, I just don't want them to be the main feature that makes you play the killer. I just had to look what the addon even does and I have to admit it's pretty bad, however having a basically unlimited supply of beartraps sounds really annyoing to go against. I mean sure when you want to pick them up again finding the boxes could be rough if you don't see the auras, but just the possibility that survivors have to always get rid of a box after getting unhooked sounds really annoying and might delay the game way too long. What if we double their number but make it so they get removed easier... like 8 traps but you are guaranteed to get them off after 3 boxes. So you still get around 150% of the normal slowdown, but survivors don't have to traverse the entire map each time after getting downed and hooked.
Honestly even that could be too much considering the 3rd time you get downed you die on hook... that slowdown would be immense... But sure, debatable...
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297121#Comment_3297121
there is no guaranteed hit in any of these powers. your definition of zoning is using killer power at this point. Your just making bad guesses towards killer powers and blaming the killer. that is whole new level of delusional. Zoning for me is prohibiting movement/actions. A trapper trap under a pallet is prohibiting my ability to go through pallet because result of going through pallet is an instant down. Its denying area. Old Deathslinger is not denying area, he is making shift-W a more skilful interaction for survivor. You making bad reads vs his gun is not zoning. Its just you playing bad vs the killer.
What are you even reading back when he had 0 wind up time xD To read something you would need information and when he can just instantly shoot you there is no behavior you could read.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297121#Comment_3297121
there is no guaranteed hit in any of these powers. your definition of zoning is using killer power at this point. Your just making bad guesses towards killer powers and blaming the killer. that is whole new level of delusional. Zoning for me is prohibiting movement/actions. A trapper trap under a pallet is prohibiting my ability to go through pallet because result of going through pallet is an instant down. Its denying area. Old Deathslinger is not denying area, he is making shift-W a more skilful interaction for survivor. You making bad reads vs his gun is not zoning. Its just you playing bad vs the killer.
Then you have a weird definition of zoning... For me zoning is just the process of forcing the survivor to not go somewhere by threatening him with your power.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297033#Comment_3297033
If you try to be outside of his imaginary cross hair then he is zoning you for free... That's also a point I made before... Old ds had free zoning...
I do not consider that free zoning because you can technically be under his crosshair, It is just not advised. He is not prohibiting your movement. He is making your movement more risky. I would say he has free zoning at window vaulting because he can shoot you at the animation of vaulting therefore prohibiting your ability to vault window in a lot of situations but given his status as 110% m/s killer, there is no real reason to overly greed loops given that all maps have some form of high-wall loops to use LOS along with pallet breaks that give a lot of free distance.
I would say free-zoning is when a character prohibits an area or an action that would resolve in hit or down with limit to zero counter-play from the other side. there are loads of example of that in dbd. Artist's birds are often considered free-zoning tools because she can place birds at pallets where you cannot enter the bird trajectory but going under the mask of the bird can result in a free health-state loss. Dredge's Remnant when in the corner of a map/pallet can be free-zoning because you cannot enter Remnant to cancel it but going close to it allows Dredge to back-teleport into a lunge m1 hit. Hag's traps can be free-zoning because your trying to avoid traps are placed in choke points where the trap blocks your path leading to a trap trigger being an instant tp m1 hit. Trapper's traps at pallets or windows can prohibit your ability to use window or a pallet. Scottjund for example dislikes the knight's power because he thinks that the guards are free-zoning.
free-zoning is free hit without any counter-play/nuance. old slinger has counter-play and nuance in almost in any situation. The situations where you get hit for free were situations that you made a mistake prior to put in unfavourably position.
I don't agree with that definition, I would say zoning is the ability to make a specific path much more risky to take, with an almost guaranteed hit if you still do... Like when demogorgon follows you with his shred or huntress has a fully charged hatched and aims at you, same goes for slinger. But now we get to the part where it becomes free... Huntress gets slowed down for holding the hatched, demogorgon gets slowed down for holding his shred and so on, old slinger did not get slowed for zoning since his wind up was basically non existent he could threaten a specific area without any negative effect towards his movements peed or so. And for me that's a prime example for free zoning. Yes you could still walk in his cross hair being at a higher risk to be shot but taking countermeasures will shorten your distance to him since he does not get slowed down ending up in a loose loose situation... If you don't dodge or make yourself hard to hit you will get shot and if you do he will eventually be in M1 range or that close that he almost cannot miss the shot, that was the problem with old slinger, why he was free and why they changed his wind up.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
The projectile takes around 0.45 seconds to reach 18m (given that the projectile moves at 40m/s). If we take into account reaction time and ping as further up we get 200-300 ms (average reaction time) and 30-60 ms (ping). So if the survivor presses the button as soon as humanly possible he has 0.22 seconds to 0.09 seconds to get his hitbox out of slingers shot.
I wish you would stop pretending like you know anything about the killer. Deathslinger's gun was not instant scoping. it had 0.15 second aim down sight. according to your math was 0.6-0.3 between 18-8 meters. This assuming that deathslinger has 0 ping and press aim down sight -> fire shot with 0 input delay or network delay. This is first part.
The second aspect i want to talk about is the assumption that the survivor needs to go outside of hit boxes. The way quickscoping worked for slinger was that the killer and survivor have an invisible crosshair on their screen which I will call it the viewing angle(for survivor). To quickscope as slinger, you wanted to align your crosshair with survivor's model then immediately fire with a little bit of flick to predict where the survivor was going to be so that they side-step into the shot. The gameplay from the survivor side was all about avoiding deathslinger's viewing angle and moving as forward as possible while looking for his aim down sight+travel distance on the harpoon gun. The end point I am trying to conclude is that you should not be moving outside of his harpoon gun hitboxes, rather you should be already outside of his hitbox before the shot is fired. In practice, deathslinger was trying to predict where the survivor was going to be, not where the survivor currently is. From the survivor point of view, It was a mixture between reacting to shots and anticipating shots, Mindgames essentially.
Just to go on slight tangent, This viewing angle is how the stronger survivor players reveal Ghostface's Nightshroud quickly. Ghostface's model has a hitbox and in order to reveal him quickly, you simply point your invisible crosshair like giant lazer beam into his nightshroud hitbox and it reveals him after 1.5 second. this is just to talk about one of your post complaining about ghostface's reveal mechanic. Its incredibly easy. It is why it is difficult stalk experienced survivors with GF.
Going back to the conversation. Everything I have talked about is observable in gameplay. Hens interaction is a good example at 14:14-14:21 was very good outlook how gameplay between Slinger and good survivor looked like. You can instantly see how quickly hens would stay out of slinger's crosshair by default and how quickly hens would react to avoid the initial shot. Your perception of ADS canceling 20 times is complete exaggeration of the gameplay as seen in this video. Nowhere in the gameplay does this occur and your just projecting your feeling onto me for your dislike on the killer.
https://youtu.be/35vBSv7zPGw?t=854
I remember watching his stream that day and he did around 8 slinger matches that day. most of them I remember them being on Coal tower. There was more gameplay in regards to old slinger but a single match is good enough to examine most of the gameplay elements.
Also I am more of Hens's opinion - people don't like current DS, because he now takes skill to play as opposed to be free.
Deathslinger was not free. My main dislike for these changes is that the survivor has too much control over his ranged ability on a killer that is suppose to heavily rely on his ability to get hits. Playing him vs strong survivors feels like having a useless ranged option that only works vs weaker players. You feel almost like 110% m/s m1 killer against good survivors. Its not matter of adapting to his changes. his changes just don't work. Its like taking a power reliant killer like Nurse and demolishing the killer kit with 2 changes then putting some bandages.
Nurse:
-Added blink location indicator for survivor to see blink location when charging Spencer's Last Breath
-Reduced max blink range from 20/10 to 14/8
-Reduced blink missed fatique duration from 3.5 to 2.5
-Increased Nurse base movement speed by 4%.
Anyhow, I am over the changes. I just do not think slinger changes were good changes. You can keep believing they are good changes though.
I quickly checked deaths lingers changelock in the wiki and it only says that he now has a minimum time to ad's of 0.4 s which implies to me that he did not have it before, there is also not mentioned that the minimum time to ads was improved from 0.15 to 0.4 s so unless you have proof it was like that I'm going to ignore that point. Also in the notes the devs were quoted that they didn't like the insta scoping because there was very little to do about it.
Also I'm not pretending I checked the stats in the wiki and did the math based on it... I m laying my sources open for everyone to check them out and correct me. Even if we ignore input delay for the survivor as well it would be a very minor difference for the math I did... But sure for the sake of the argument go for it.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
The projectile takes around 0.45 seconds to reach 18m (given that the projectile moves at 40m/s). If we take into account reaction time and ping as further up we get 200-300 ms (average reaction time) and 30-60 ms (ping). So if the survivor presses the button as soon as humanly possible he has 0.22 seconds to 0.09 seconds to get his hitbox out of slingers shot.
I wish you would stop pretending like you know anything about the killer. Deathslinger's gun was not instant scoping. it had 0.15 second aim down sight. according to your math was 0.6-0.3 between 18-8 meters. This assuming that deathslinger has 0 ping and press aim down sight -> fire shot with 0 input delay or network delay. This is first part.
The second aspect i want to talk about is the assumption that the survivor needs to go outside of hit boxes. The way quickscoping worked for slinger was that the killer and survivor have an invisible crosshair on their screen which I will call it the viewing angle(for survivor). To quickscope as slinger, you wanted to align your crosshair with survivor's model then immediately fire with a little bit of flick to predict where the survivor was going to be so that they side-step into the shot. The gameplay from the survivor side was all about avoiding deathslinger's viewing angle and moving as forward as possible while looking for his aim down sight+travel distance on the harpoon gun. The end point I am trying to conclude is that you should not be moving outside of his harpoon gun hitboxes, rather you should be already outside of his hitbox before the shot is fired. In practice, deathslinger was trying to predict where the survivor was going to be, not where the survivor currently is. From the survivor point of view, It was a mixture between reacting to shots and anticipating shots, Mindgames essentially.
Just to go on slight tangent, This viewing angle is how the stronger survivor players reveal Ghostface's Nightshroud quickly. Ghostface's model has a hitbox and in order to reveal him quickly, you simply point your invisible crosshair like giant lazer beam into his nightshroud hitbox and it reveals him after 1.5 second. this is just to talk about one of your post complaining about ghostface's reveal mechanic. Its incredibly easy. It is why it is difficult stalk experienced survivors with GF.
Going back to the conversation. Everything I have talked about is observable in gameplay. Hens interaction is a good example at 14:14-14:21 was very good outlook how gameplay between Slinger and good survivor looked like. You can instantly see how quickly hens would stay out of slinger's crosshair by default and how quickly hens would react to avoid the initial shot. Your perception of ADS canceling 20 times is complete exaggeration of the gameplay as seen in this video. Nowhere in the gameplay does this occur and your just projecting your feeling onto me for your dislike on the killer.
https://youtu.be/35vBSv7zPGw?t=854
I remember watching his stream that day and he did around 8 slinger matches that day. most of them I remember them being on Coal tower. There was more gameplay in regards to old slinger but a single match is good enough to examine most of the gameplay elements.
Also I am more of Hens's opinion - people don't like current DS, because he now takes skill to play as opposed to be free.
Deathslinger was not free. My main dislike for these changes is that the survivor has too much control over his ranged ability on a killer that is suppose to heavily rely on his ability to get hits. Playing him vs strong survivors feels like having a useless ranged option that only works vs weaker players. You feel almost like 110% m/s m1 killer against good survivors. Its not matter of adapting to his changes. his changes just don't work. Its like taking a power reliant killer like Nurse and demolishing the killer kit with 2 changes then putting some bandages.
Nurse:
-Added blink location indicator for survivor to see blink location when charging Spencer's Last Breath
-Reduced max blink range from 20/10 to 14/8
-Reduced blink missed fatique duration from 3.5 to 2.5
-Increased Nurse base movement speed by 4%.
Anyhow, I am over the changes. I just do not think slinger changes were good changes. You can keep believing they are good changes though.
So you take Hens' gameplay as proof for him being not free, but Hens himself saying he was free does not count??? I don't understand that logic.
If you try to be outside of his imaginary cross hair then he is zoning you for free... That's also a point I made before... Old ds had free zoning...
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296483#Comment_3296483
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296515#Comment_3296515
The fact that you two are second guessing yourself highly proves that you have played 0 hours on deathslinger. your blurbing complete non-sense like 20 ADS canceling. You have absolute zero experience on slinger to be posting comments like this. I played deathslinger for like 2 months straight at one point all the way to rank 1 on the old emblem system so I already know what the gameplay experience was like for deathslinger. The mental gymnastics that you two have regarding killers is unbelievably self-centered. I have zero clue to why your opinion regarding deathslinger matters when you clearly do not play the character at all. Its a bit disheartening that dev have to listen to this stuff and often makes changes based off this feedback.
Your entitled to your opinion to think that he was unfair/unfun/boring killer. My opinion has not changed though. I am just sad that we lost a fun killer to play. He was more interesting to vs before and far more enjoyable to play.
Also second guessing yourself is rather easy when it is a question that just came up and you didn't yet calculate if it's possible or not... Just saying it is or it is not rather proves that you didn't take the time to think about it. Whereas the question if you can dodge a shot by simply crouching, which is as far as I know rather instant, is way easier to answer then let's say can you sidestep a shot at a certain distance, because then you need to take into account how big the hitbox and how big the projectile is, you need to again take reaction time and ping into account, you need to think of where the deathslinger was aiming... So let's make it rather simple:
Survivor is running alongside shack and hugging the wall, he can only go right, slinger aims to most right point of his hitbox, can the survivor sidestep the shot? To answer that we need to know how wide the survivors hitbox is and how much distance he would need to go to the side to avoid the shot and then figure out if the projectile will travel faster than the survivor can react and side step. It's just not a simple question and before I did the math I cannot say for sure. That's how you usually deal with things you didn't calculate yet, you say you don't know and can only assume/guess and you need to do the math. It does not show lack of experience, because even if you play slinger you cannot know since maybe the survivor just got lucky and sidestepped beforehand and you missed. To know for sure you would need to do the calculation.
The projectile takes around 0.45 seconds to reach 18m (given that the projectile moves at 40m/s). If we take into account reaction time and ping as further up we get 200-300 ms (average reaction time) and 30-60 ms (ping). So if the survivor presses the button as soon as humanly possible he has 0.22 seconds to 0.09 seconds to get his hitbox out of slingers shot.
Given that I don't know how wide the survivor hitbox is (and I did not find information on that in the wiki, maybe it is there and I just didn't find it...) I can only make an educated guess...
Survivors move at 4.0 m/s. If we use the 0.22 seconds then we get 0.88m of distance (I would assume the hitbox is smaller, so the deathslinger would not hit the shot, but since I don't know how big the hitbox is I cannot know for sure). If we use the 0.09 seconds then we get 0.39m. That might be distance at which the survivor could still get hit, I have to assume (like I said, I don't know for sure). Now it only depends on how fast the specific player is if he gets hit or not...
So to answer the question it depends... on two factors: 1. How wide is the survivors hitbox 2. How good is the survivors reaction time. So in general I would say that based on these calculations I would assume that it is humanly possible to dodge at that distance, but you would need to be not too slow and the hitbox would need to be a specific lenght.
I hope that helps.
-
Its not even like I didn't or don't play slinger, I played him a bit before the rework, but hated how little stuff you could do against him and I tend to not play things that annoy me from the other side, that's why I don't play eruption or range addons on nurse and so on... But he seems fine to me right now and at least people can do something and get a warning that he is about to shoot.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296483#Comment_3296483
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296515#Comment_3296515
The fact that you two are second guessing yourself highly proves that you have played 0 hours on deathslinger. your blurbing complete non-sense like 20 ADS canceling. You have absolute zero experience on slinger to be posting comments like this. I played deathslinger for like 2 months straight at one point all the way to rank 1 on the old emblem system so I already know what the gameplay experience was like for deathslinger. The mental gymnastics that you two have regarding killers is unbelievably self-centered. I have zero clue to why your opinion regarding deathslinger matters when you clearly do not play the character at all. Its a bit disheartening that dev have to listen to this stuff and often makes changes based off this feedback.
Your entitled to your opinion to think that he was unfair/unfun/boring killer. My opinion has not changed though. I am just sad that we lost a fun killer to play. He was more interesting to vs before and far more enjoyable to play.
A question of being able to react to something in a very specific amount of time has not really much to do with playing the game, when it is just about numbers... I don't get how you still don't understand that point... It is just about is it possible to react to something in that time or is human reaction time too slow... He was boring to face and play and he was free like we elaborated already, it just looks like you wanted to hit shots with 0 effort and without having to put any time into learning to aim. Like Hens said in the clip "old slinger was free" and thats terrible design.
Also you don't even know what your reaction time would and if you would be able to dodge because you have put no thought into the machanics behind the killer, so you should really just figure that stuff out before complaining about people having no clue. You didn't even try to understand what we were talking about, usually when you show people facts that contradict their believe they start questioning their believe, simply because you cannot argue against the laws of physics or proper math. The world just does not work like it... But since you didn't even bother to figure out if you would be fast enough to reaction dodge something like that, or fact check the numbers and therefore know that they are not made up but accurate... It is really frustrating when people don't even bother to try to understand the points you are making, especially when they are not complicated... It is only a matter of math and physics, is it humanly possible to react to something that happens within xy ms of time yes or no... That's all... Nothing more to it and thats not even an opinion, thats just facts.
-
@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296445#Comment_3296445
It's iconic really and it becomes a thing whether or not they will get it off in time
But since that usually does not happen and it's basically guaranteed for them to get it off before the timer goes off without patrolling boxes or face the darkness, I feel she should have an addon that helps this and makes box patrolling basically impossible in exchange for reusable/unlimited traps and a speed decrease
To me, that sounds like a fair tradeoff as she will be slower and cannot box patrol but her traps will not be limited anymore
Her traps are her main power, the dash is more of a secondary, why can't we improve both? Especially if they get a 30 second increase of their timers
Why would you improve the power she has no to very little control over? I think the traps are already doing their job fairly well, they delay the game quite a bit, and if we improve her dash she will be a lot better in chase and not rely on prolonging the game that much anymore.
The main power of a killer should basically never be a passive thing, because handling that power is why you pick up the killer, what makes him different from others from a gameplay perspective.
-
@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/356457/for-people-that-want-nurse-nerfed
I have 2 different ideas (pick one) :
- Make Nurse and Blight "build up " characters since they are the best killers. Remove buildup from all other killers. Make Nurse need to hit surviovrs 3 times with only one blink in order to give her access to second blink. Give Blight only 3 tokens until he hits 3 times with a rush.
- Give Nurse various nerfs that make her weaker overall. Remove the ability to use starstruck except on non blink hits. Make Nurse wipe her weapon after a successful hit and THEN have fatigue (this will stop the cycle of blink blink hit- blink blink hit). Remove Collision from nurse until after she has recovered from fatigue (to prevent body blocking and allow more PoV tech ). Remove all Blink recharge and distance addons (or reduce the effects to old pig addon levels 1.5-3% effects). Give Nurse a full lunge on the first blink but only a Michael Myers T1 "baby" lunge on the second blink. Change one addon to give her full lunge on second blink (purple).
Onis Power is arguably the strongest in the game... When you say remove all buildup from other killers, does that mean oni gets his power for the entire game? Ok, Oni is now the strongest killer in the game.
I don't mind the weapon whipe thing to much, but the baby lunge is just annoying af...
-
@Donleov said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296512#Comment_3296512
No i mean, its like you got vaccinated vs nemesis everytime you got downed.
Maybe not if downed, but at least if hooked could somewhat work? But again average and below average nurse players would suffer a lot... I would rather make it a once for every survivor thing with a timer... So let's say the first 3-4 minutes of the game you have it or until you loose it once, but after that time you loose it automatically?
-
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296411#Comment_3296411
Exactly. And I presume he would not be able to dodge even at 18m (I might be wrong, but I think that would be the case).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296398#Comment_3296398
Also I am more of Hens's opinion - people don't like current DS, because he now takes skill to play as opposed to be free.
At 18 you have almost half a second to dodge, so I think at that point it could be possible, but as far as I'm aware at 18 m the slinger has problems reeling the survivor in anyways XD As seen in one of Hens' clips on RPD. Dodging in the sense of crouching, I don't know if you can sidestep it in that time to be honest... But it might be possible, we could test it out.
-
@Donleov said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296466#Comment_3296466
This change on nurse would indirectly nerf lethal for her, because the chase is not going to be as short. Nowdays, she can have lethal with kavanagh and literally snipe you even before you know it's a nurse.
I talked about the stealing the breath of survivors because it's on her lore, in that case you can supose nemesis is that character, he needs to infect u before dealing damage.
If you really want to nerf her you can make so it goes away every time u got downed, that would help with her sluggin and also tunelling.
You mean remove her blink ability after each down? I don't like that, I think making her range addons weaker is a good thing to do, just so she cannot crossmap you at the beginning of the match. And making distance against her stays somewhat strong.
-
@Donleov said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296440#Comment_3296440
Yes, like nemesis, but you cant vaccinate (or maybe you can depend on how you want to approach it); this plus DH, can make a somewhat decent chase at the begening and nerf perks like lethal and starstruck because she needs to hit them prior to start to give damage
To be honest I would rather take that idea and make a whole new killer out of it XD Some kind of invisible killer that haunts you and steals your breath and then starts to actually chase you... But that is somewhat like old old freddy that has to put you into sleep first before he can interact with you and all...
I don't think nerfing Lethal is needed... Corrupt is still a better perk than lethal, even on Nurse, so I don't really see a reason to nerf it especially just because of 1 killer.
-
@MarKrTheDemigod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296255#Comment_3296255
"weakest stealth killer, is probably true but the Pig doesn't rely on stealth as her main tactic. I use it situationally and it proves useful.
The grabs usually work on the first survivor you encounter on a gen. If you go stealth before they get to your terror radius, they don't hear you coming (unless they have Spine Chill or something) and you can catch them off guard. They become more and more aware as the game progresses so grabbing them later on is more and more difficult. Still, even if it is just one grab in a game, it is a "free" hook.
Dash is again situational. The roar might be directional but sometimes the gens are placed in such a position that there are just two ways out, if you approach from the correct angle and start the dash, they hear the roar but it is behind an obstacle so they know they have to run but the chances are 50:50 which side you're gonna come from. If they choose wrong, they'll run right into you. So yes, it is situational (because not all gens are these "two ways out only") and there is luck involved.
And punishing survivors for bad play of their team-mates is a basic feature of the game. If one of your teammates makes a mistake and gets killed, your chances of escaping take a sudden nose dive. Bear trap timers are paused when a survivor is on a hook and it is true that getting unhooked just to die the next second because your team finished 2 gens is probably gonna lead to a ton of complaints but that is nothing that cannot be solved by adding a simple condition. Something like "every finished gen cuts the remaining trap time by 20 seconds, but the remaining time cannot be pushed below 30 seconds this way." so even if your team finishes gens, you don't die out of blue purely because of your team.
If you get a gen grab as pig while using her build in stealth the survivor didn't listen properly, you can hear the blade really well...
@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296413#Comment_3296413
I'm not saying the dash should be removed entirely lol I'm simply stating that we shouldn't leave the traps in the dust and for most, the traps are her main and most fun power
The dash can still be used, especially if combat straps and last will is basekit I just think the traps should be reusable with Amanda's secret too since it disables jigsaw box auras and possibly even put her at 4.4m/s
How are traps the most fun power? You're not doing anything from a gameplay perspective?? I don't see any reason to put her to 4.4 m/s sine she is really weak. Just to understand that... What is fun about using the traps? I mean I get it roaring at a survivor that is about to die from the trap is fun, but besides that actually usin a power to outplay a survivor is the most fun thing in the game, and making it usable on more tiles, allowing her to properly use her power seems great. I just don't understand how something can feel good when you didn't do anything to achieve it... I mean if you get a kill with the bear trap you mostly didn't do anything for it.. You maybe ran addons to help and the survivor got unlucky with boxes or something like that. But you did not really earn the kill or did anything skillfull or something that was based on your mastery of the killer.
I just want her to have more depth, more to learn about her, more ways to use her power, make her stronger but also give a her a higher skillcap. Because honestly after a certain amount of hours basic m1 killers just loose a lot of their charm, and Pig is not much more than that in her current state, an M1 killer with game delay, and very rarely usefull stealth/dash.
-
@Donleov said:
Another idea would to give survivors 1 more health state on their first chase, the nurse would need to hit them to steal their breath and then she becomes normal. That would give some breathing room in the begining of the match.
I would not mind that part too much, but just to clarify, she still has her full power from the beginning? It's just that the first hit does not take a health state?
-
@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296201#Comment_3296201
Because the traps are the most iconic and dash is really more of a stealth mechanic, making combat straps basekit would be cool but again the dash is a secondary power and not the main power
Plus Amanda's secret seriously needs a buff anyway and I feel like removing jigsaw box auras for reusable traps and lower speed is a good tradeoff, plus the traps need to be activated first by a gen anyway so it's not like it's abusable
But the traps don't offer gameplay... You are not doing anything skillful if you put them on a survivor... From a gameplay standpoint it does not really matter what is iconic or not it matters what it allows the player to do... There is no skill cap to the traps no interaction to outplay the survivor just nothing... The main focus of every single killer should be the thing they can use in a skillful way... Billy's chainsaw, Blights rush, Pheads chain/range attack and so on... Demogorgons shred. If you have 20 killers that all have the same M1 M1 mechanic with a gamedelay machic that is basically the same then you have the same killer 20 times... That's just boring.
The thing you can do from a gameplay perspective should be the most relevant... The mechanic yo u use to outplay the opponent, how do you outplay someone by just putting ab bear trap in their head :/
Mending, bear traps, Pheads box, wesker sprays they are all just secondary game delay what matter is the power the killer can control because otherwise there is no killer specific skill cap, it's just basic M1 killer skills... And that becomes boring if every killer is like that.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296378#Comment_3296378
where exactly in that gameplay in hens gameplay do you see 20 times of raise+lower gun in the gameplay? This is such utter non-sense. There is this concept called conditioning in games. The more you do particular action, the less likely the opponent will fall for your bluff and vice versa. there is no need to respect every single ADS that the deathslinger player does. you could just disrespect his ADS and keep running forward. There is also principal of line of sight. Use objects to impair his ability to shoot you. As @roundpitt states, good survivor can flawlessly dodge his gun at distance. Your lazy to learn how to play against the character.
This is why you keep parroting the same old Deathslinger is unfun, braindead and boring slogan that almost every survivor main player whines about when they do not like playing against the killer. Personally, I think he was fun, interesting and took a lot of skill to play correctly. Overall I enjoyed playing survivor against his old-self. His current version for me is boring, uninspiring and somewhat braindead to play against.
The 20 times ads is the old deaths linger and the reason why his design was bad, I thought that was fairly obvious. Yes you can react to it at certain distance I never disagreed with it, but I said that at medium distance it cannot be reacted to and since most of the time he will shoot at medium distance his old version was problematic.
Conditioning needs a lot of repetitions and I don't think it works that well in Dbd, the times you can get downed and hooked per mact is limited and you are rather unlikely going to face the same player again.
I get the feeling you don't understand the words you are using... How is it more brain dead to go against/play a killer that can shoot you without any warning and without being able to react to it than getting somewhat of a hint? I simply don't understand that kind of reasoning, it makes no sense for me how you could get to this conclusion... And generalizing people into survivor or killer main despite having no information to back that claim is also a weird thing to do... Like wanting to have a somewhat fair and balanced gaming experience of eboth sides is a one-sided thing to want...
If you think old slinger was fine we can do the following: I ll play slinger you play survivor we go a certain amount of distance apart, we stand still, I aim at your chest height you crouch to reaction dodge the shot, I will keep ads the entire time, since old slinger didn't have any significant amount of warning either this should be somewhat fine. We will decrease the distance and see at which distance you can still reaction dodge it... And then we find out if you can something about it or if it is not possible to dodge.
-
@MarKrTheDemigod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296250#Comment_3296250
It is the same situation as it is now - if you time your shocks well, the survivors cannot do much more than just run. Once you hit them with the shock, they cannot drop pallets, vault nor hide in lockers. The slowdow during charging the shock is the counter-balance to that but if you use it well, you will get to the melee range eventually. This would only shorten the time it takes to catch up with the survivor.
I guess I don't know what you want. You say it takes too long to hit/down survivors with M1 killers and when there is a suggestion to cut the delay times, you say it would offer no counterplay.
I don't want to buff his chase since I think it is fine unless we want to come up with a whole new thing. Against Doctor you can at least take unique patching since at some tiles he does not know where you are going or leave the tile and go next when he is currently not seeing you. As it is his kit offers little counterplay in chase but at least it takes some time and during that time you might be able to reach a tile to apply those things mentioned before, if we reduce it or give bonus ms you can basically keep them at the tile until you can one-shot them and I would not like that. I don't want to make parts of killers that are already good not that much better but give them extra stuff, since the telepoet provides thingsyou can do about it... But I agree that doctors chase is not too interactive when it comes to counterplay, which is why I don't want to make it even less interactive by cutting it in half... You can't really make it less oppreissve without changing his core concept, that's what I meant.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296364#Comment_3296364
its not suppose to be about reaction. its suppose to be about predicting. mindgames. the reaction part is more of strategy to not need to use as much prediction on every shot.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296360#Comment_3296360
it should be something that actually has some skillful counter play.
what... your complaining about something that did take to outplay.
I don't really know what should be the buff.
The best buff is revert.
He could really just run at you and raise/lower his gun all the time and never commit to get you. Loose loose situation with 0 counter play. No fun to play against and braindead to play as
this sounds like my exact description of my previous post. survivor baby rage because it was too difficult to learn to play against the killer.
Reacting appropriately to things happening is skillful. Even mind games provoke appropriate reactions to certain situations but turn out to be a different thing then the other sight assumed it would be. If old deathslinger runs after you and raises and lowers his gun 20 times without getting slowed down much you are telling me knowing when he will shoot is more than just guessing? Based on what exactly especially since he had not really any delay before he could shoot, so if he wanted he did not necessarily need to give you any information about an incoming shot... That is what made him free, and since Hens a really skilled player said exactly that you cannot say that we are just bad, because players that are not bad objectively, share that opinion. So your point of "you are just bad and don't know the game" just does not fit.