Archol123
Archol123
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What would not being able to close hatch while in stealth even do? He can still bodyblock it, uncloak and then close it? Just makes him waste more time, also it would be rather inconsistent, since he can interact with other objects while cloaked.
@BugReporterOnly said:
I had the prompt for hatch and I was pressing the button but he then took that away from me because he was cloaked. For hatch make it that stealth killers have to have their terror radius available. Also make it so he has a 3 second cooldown so he can't spam his cloaking in chase. Console players get screwed over because he has no cooldown for it amd abuses it in chase.
"Abuse cloak?" you serious mate? He is just using his ability, what do you want him to do? Uncloak and just chase instead of trying to get hits using his power, oh dear how terrible, the player is actually playing the killer xD
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I mean yes, everything apart from the houses is more or less a deadzone, but when the survivors reach a house they are basically guaranteed a 1-2 minute long chase just because you can loose chase with some of those windows, which is kind of ridiculous.
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BBQ, Corrupt Intervention/Lethal Pursuer, Sloppy Butcher and Jolt on M1 Killer
And on almost everyone else I run Pain Rez and Plaything instead of Sloppy and Jolt.
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@UndeddJester said:
Nurse has been such a hot topic, you can read opinions on her spanning years. Its quite an interesting timeline.
After reading a lot of these experiences, playing both against her and as her a number of times (admittedly I'm a pretty new player without an enormous number of games, but who has been crushed by, and has crushed on both sides), Nurse is getting there, she is still overtuned, but the gap is closing... I can't point to any times personally where I felt I made the perfect play and still got caught by the Nurse. I've usually felt like the Nurse made a very good read when I got caught.
The best takes (as in those that seemed to have good evidence and argumentation) I've seen/read tend to agree that:
She does have good counterplay, but the biggest issues for most players is she is so different to the rest of the cast, that your normal strategies and habits are ineffective against her, and actively getting you killed. There are strategies to employ against her, but you get so few chances to learn them, it's really difficult to keep up with Nurses at your level.
If you get a friend playing Nurse in a 1-on-1 game, and spend time practising between you, you can get pretty good at countering her ability with good mind games.
A lot of such consensus since her blink attacks were made soecial attacks also indicates that:
Nurses who don't take the extra blink distance add-ons tend to struggle more and perform rather mediocre compared to those that do.
This makes sense. The Nurse's strength at countering loops is what makes her strong in chase, but the Clown does that, and he is hardly a tier 1 killer.
The Blight is also strong at countering loops, but just like a Nurse with extra blink distance, it's the combination of fast map traversal AND strong chase that makes a killer strong.
I'm not an expert player by any means, but I watch and learn from a lot of people who are... and based on their argumentation, the Nurse seems almost fine... at most needing an addon pass to reduce map traversal power.
Overall her map traversal is pretty bad. With using only one blink for map traversal she is slower than a standard 115% ms killer, the going through walls on the other side makes her map traversal better, but then again maps with several floors provide their own issues to the gameplay therefore that is completely different problem.
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@MDRSan said:
I literally just found out Victor can search lockers in a match the other day. The ones I was checking didn't have anyone in them and I'm not really sure what happens if someone is in one.
The visual was kind of funny - like a kid standing on tippy toes to reach something (though I only saw it through Victor's POV obviously)
He keeps the locker locked so the survivor cant go out of it and you take control of charlotte automatically and can go there and grab them out.
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Generally speaking I like going against Nurse it is either a fun game, where I can make her guess by denying line of fight and more often than not make her abandon chase or gain a whole lot of distance or it is a 2-3 minute game which is also fine because it is over quick. Therefore Nurse is one of my most favorite killers to go against. Unlike Skull Merchant or other killers Nurse matches don't last that long and I prefer that. Making her unable to blink through walls basically turns her into Blight and that would remove what makes her special... I think she is in an OK spot right now, didn't even think it was necessary to remove her compatibility with sloppy or surge, the exposed change was alright though.
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These days it can even be argued that Blight is stronger than Nurse since her addons really don't give her that much whereas Blights addons are still busted af.
As for the ckunterplay part most players just don't know how to do it, obviously there is stuff you can do otherwise Nurse would dominate in comp without an issue, but of course you won't get a 5 Gen chase as you could against an M1 killer... Which I my opinion isn't bad at all the game is designed to let the killer get downs eventually there is a whole lot of mechanics that suggest that, delaying the killer long enough so you can finish the gens and escape is basically the goal not stomping the killer into the ground leaving him with 0 hooks after 5-7 minutes.
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@Meepy13 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3502643#Comment_3502643
Don't take the word of other peoples tier lists as law, especially from people that don't play the killer they're ranking. I can't see how a killer with this much counterplay can be mid tier in a comp setting
And about the locker thing, 10 seconds is awful lmao considering it takes 3 seconds to switch back from victor and it's very rarely a straight shot to the locker
The question is when do the 10 seconds start? I dont think you can substract the 3 seconds switch. But I'm also not sure how much it is in total, it still quite some distance.
I just picked out two examples, as far as I know most people would place twins in the strongest third of them, and that with good reasoning. I would guess since Knightlight plays in the best comp team he knows how good the killer is when he goes against them on a regular basis in a comp setting, so how about you just go in his stream and ask him what he thinks about twins and maybe his reasoning is good enough?
And on a general note I don't think the game is too complex to not know, on a more general scale like good, bad, average, how good a killer is. Sure you can be wrong, but twins are in the game for quite some time and they were consistantly considered rather good, especially because of their ability to rely heavily on slugging. Especially guys like Hens, Otzdarva, Knightlight that have like ~10k hours in this game, there is only so much to know about this game.
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@Meepy13 said:
You can hop into lockers to completely avoid hits, travel in two to kick victor after he downs your friend and have them healed before Charlotte gets there, you can cause charlotte to have a 43 second cooldown by holding onto victor
You can stick close to an object and Victor's atrocious hitbox might hit that instead of you
You can hold crouch and remove any defensive capabilities victor has (seriously ######### is this, 'do X to completely remove an aspect of the killers power' is such horrible counterplay implementation)
So little of twins gameplay is actually in control of the killer. The only counter counterplay is getting used to victors hitbox but it's buggy and inconsistent
Imo, they should completely remove the ability to crouch and deny killer instinct. Most people don't know about this and twins is still low tier, so I feel like it really shouldn't exist. Dormant victor already has counterplay. Also you should be able to recall victor from lockers after 10 seconds and the survivor should be able to escape after 25
If you jump into a locker victor can hold you there for Charlotte to arrive and grab you out of it... I mean sure if you are on the opposite side of the map then she probably wont reach you, but she gets 10 seconds to get there, according to the wiki, which is around 46m so unless you are on some god forsaken indoor map or on the opposite side of the map you have a good chance to get a locker grab.
As for the low tier claim, as far as I'm aware most people place Twins in bottom of A tier or high B tier, so I wouldnt call them low tier... For exampel:
Hens333 (accessable over his stream with command !tierlist):
or Knightlight (for a comp setting)(accessable over his stream with command !tierlist):
Therefore I don't think it is reasonable to place them in "Low tier"...
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Maybe make her crouch speed faster and a lot faster transition between crouching and standing? Her stealth is not powerfull enough to take that long to enter.
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@Depressedlegion said:
What about to buff her chase, her ambush doesn't slow her, and she doesn't roar when she does it.
I kind of like the mindgame you can do with using the roar to scare people away from loops, but I would probably make it usable while standing, being the current version, maybe without a roar... Current version when it comes to speed and duration. And then while crouched make it longer and or faster kind of like the start from a sprint. That would make it more viable in chase and giving survivors some interaction where they need to decide their strategy based on the size of the loop, while a small loop does not necessarily need the crouch a larger one needs you to be crouched.
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How about buffing her chase power so she doesn't have to rely on even more game delay?
The main power of a killer should basically always be a way to give him hits and downs easier and not game delay.
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@Sadako_Best_Girl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3498690#Comment_3498690
Nick said he got into the game because of Sadako.
I thought he said he did it because his son is a fan of the game or something like that?
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@DY86 said:
Jeez. People in here need to learn that if ur not good with a certain killer doesn’t mean they are bad, more often than not it means u are.
and thats ok, we can always learn
Billy is a below average killer currently which is commonly agreed on. And basically everyone that plays Billy a lot knows that and says it rather constantly, Hens is a good Billy Player once said something like "Billy is really hard and terribly weak"...
Even if mastered many other killers are far better with much less effort. And many, especially newer maps don't help him much as they have terrible collision and tiles that are too big to be curved.
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I mean, they probably had an observer in it to overlook the whole thing, so why not just tell them about this specific rule before the match starts? Instead of just letting them run into the knife with such a rule that makes no sense, despite I have no clue how long the rule set is and if this part is easily to overlook, especially because it has no reason exist in the first place.
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I mean he has a rather high skill floor to use his power and I can understand that that scares people away to give up on it. But I would not call it "bad designed killer" because of that. There are many killer powers that are rather hard to use but you can still just play him as an M1 killer and get used to using his power in slow portions, something you cannot do with Nurse for example.
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Thanks :)
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3450095#Comment_3450095
While this is true, you probably wont use any method that can be detected by the game or EAC. Which is basically the same as tape.
And since, for some reason, it is allowed to play with Filters to make the game as ugly as possible for a slight advantage, not allowing a crosshair would be strange.
I would recommend to play without it tho.
See thats the point I am not sure about... If EAC scans your computer for software how would i know if it accepts that software?
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@mikewelk said:
People use VPN and absolutely nothing happens to them, in fact the game encourages killers to use it by providing an advantage of hitting stupid shots. You can't report someone because you assume they are using a crosshair lmao you should be fine.
Fair I guess, but since easy anti cheat reacts to all and nothing i have no idea if it also reacts to that kind of software...
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I mean... it is not really tape is it ^^
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3386089#Comment_3386089
As pointed out by others making licensed killers more attractive than those you already have by getting the base game, by either buffing those or nerfing the others seems like a fine reason from a financial standpoint,
dude, are you for real rn? Billy was nerfed to sell Weskers. lol Do you know what a Conspiracy Theory is?
I would however call it malicious from gameplay point of view.
Also many changes they made just don't make any sense, no matter from what perspective... Which was evident for basically everyone reading the changes for the first time. (e.g. nerfing marvins blood on nemesis, or giving many killers a load of completely useless addons that nobody will ever use because they don't matter...)
idk, I have seen gtVel absolutely nuke survivors with that speed. I think they are breathing of relief rn.
Marvins blood nerf does not seem strange to me, it was pretty good to speedrun nemesis stages for really good players.
Claiming that I am anything in the sense of the topic is absurd since I did not make a single statement about the state of balance of the engravings... You are not making any sense here...
You did make a statement, you are commenting on a thread. Replying to a tangent, a far out branch of the conversation.
Dude if you call out other people on not providing evidence for statements they make but don't do that yourself you might be a hypocrite... And it does not really add something to the debate at all...
Yes that is only true if we keep on topic. But its not staying on topic asking me to prove a negative because I asked first.
Maybe not Wesker but Bubba, both chainsaw killers, both have an insta down. Bubba got buffed a lot and Billy got almost every good addon taken away from him, leavinig him at average strenght but waaaay harder than Bubba. You could think of it that way.
Marvins blood is useless right now since it does not enable you to get T2 with fewers hits, or I think it used to be from one survivor only, or something like that. But now it really does not serve apurpose.
Billy is an average killer... People just don't know what to do against him and therefore don't realize the options they have, there are like 15 killers that are stronger than him, and barely anybody plays Billy anyway but you think people are going to be happy to not go against a killer that offers meaningfull chase interaction unlike half of the medium range antiloop killers?
Vel started that whole post by elaborating why Billy needs his current speed? What further do you want to know? By lowering his speed some curves will no longer be possible ,esepcially against players that know what they are doing? Have you ever looked at some Billy compilations and seen how close some of those curves are? If he looses speed some of those curves will just not be possible anymore, which leaves him with less chase interaction and more tiles he cannot use his chainsaw properly... Which means more M1 killer gameplay, and that is just not why people play Billy...
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3385804#Comment_3385804
You claimed they would have a good reason for every change they make without providing evidence...
No im pretty sure that is a clear as an assumption, if you were unsure about that you can just ask. I don't assume bHVR is malicious.
So they probably have a good reason, seems weirdly strange to roll out the whole company arm for nothing. You tell me.
You claimed they would have a good reason for every change they make without providing evidence... Therefore that statement can be dismissed, same goes for things overperforming and therefore getting nerfed... That is also just an assumption, unless they stated that as the reason for toning down the addons...
Seems kind of weird do me that in a world of Video games and Video Game companies, they cant do changes to their videogames without me having to prove they are not malicious. I think that is rather bad standard, but the problem is you are only here to give me crap over me pointing out what was wrong with the other guys statements first. It IS trying to shift the burden of proof and its not on the topic either.
Like if you were really invested in finding out the truth, you would not waste time with me. I don't hold the stats either.
when you just claim stuff without providing evidence or at least a somewhat logical explanation for stuff then either the other team or the juror will just dismiss your argument that easily...
Yeah that might fly in debate club or British parliament, but to me who are invested in the topic it matters not. Its just shifting the burden of proof, which is a fallacy. To me you are clearly #5 in the following list and its a waste of my time on this topic.
- bHVR is doing a mistake by nerfing the engravings.
- What is the mistake?
- The mistake is the engravings are fine, they don't need a nerf.
- How do you know engravings are fine?
- WHERE ARE YOUR EVIDENCE TO PROVE ENGRAVINGS ARE NOT FINE, MISTER-
You you want to goat at me, then goat.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3385895#Comment_3385895
You are replying to a covo I had with Xernoton's long post about addon, but mainly the last point he made that
Something performing the best does not mean it's overperforming. Billy isn't overperforming. Period. If he was we'd have seen that with the last kill rates or the ones before. Because since he has not received a single buff. Quite the opposite in fact. It's been nerfs and shadow nerfs as well as reworked maps, which are all horrible for him, no exceptions.
The point is, Statistics are worth looking at and that isn't just kill rates. But also downrates and many other rates, like I have even watched your streams during all this. Seeing how people self sacrifice vs you its pretty clear why they are nerfed. You move way to fast to give an avg. survivor a chance imo. Now if you want to convince me I am wrong about that assessment we can continue here. But I think we all rather want answers at this point and that means asking bHVR.
As pointed out by others making licensed killers more attratictive than those you already have by getting the base game, by either buffing those or nerfing the others seems like a fine reason from a financial standpoint, I would however call it malicious from gameplay point of view. Also many changes they made just don't make any sense, no matter from what perspective... Which was evident for basically everyone reading the changes for the first time. (e.g. nerfing marvins blood on nemesis, or giving many killers a load of completely useless addons that nobody will ever use because they don't matter...)
Claiming that I am anything in the sense of the topic is absurd since I did not make a single statement about the state of balance of the engravings... You are not making any sense here...
Dude if you call out other people on not providing evidence for statements they make but don't do that yourself you might be a hypocrite... And it does not really add something to the debate at all...
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3385587#Comment_3385587
Yes it might be worthless, but thats not how debate rules are, debates are pretty diverse. I think what you mean is about evidence for a proposition, which has nothing to do with debates and more to do with Epistemology. furthermore there are not different logics that you can pick and chose from. There is logic you apply to a topic of discussion and then you examine that and take in the critiques of your arguments.
But actually in a debate its bad to be caught looking like you don't know the answers, so I can certainly understand how you feel you have to move the burden of proof unto me. as if It was not valid criticism of your arguments to not have data to back it up. It seems these days its more important to argue impactfully and not honestly or within boundaries of evidence.
Regardless of how many Hillbillys come to talk to me, Ill write them a response, its the least I can do, even if they are most interested in owning me in a debate. :D
First of all, that was the first statement I even made in this post, so I don't know what you are talking about for the most part...
Also I did not give you the burden of proof alone, I only stated that when you or anybody else for that matter makes a statement you have to back it up with something for it not be easily dismissed... You claimed they would have a good reason for every change they make without providing evidence... Therefore that statement can be dismissed, same goes for things overperforming and therefore getting nerfed... That is also just an assumption, unless they stated that as the reason for toning down the addons...
As for the debate things, I've been part of the debate club of my university for around 2 years and was even on a few tournmanets... Yes the rules can be diverse but no matter if you debate in BP (British Parliament) or OPD (open parliament debate), when you just claim stuff without providing evidence or at least a somewhat logical explanation for stuff then either the other team or the juror will just dismiss your argument that easily... In court that rule applies to facts that are beneficial to you, so you can admit things without the need to prolong the whole case that help the opposite side... But since this is not a 1v1 standpoint with only two possible standpoints this does not seem appropriate. So in summon you cannot just make stuff up without providing evidence or explanation and expect people who want to dismiss that statement to deliver more than just a counter-statement dismissing your point.
Also yes, logic cannot be partially applied, I agree on that, I however do not see how that changes anything?
As for the Billy point, I don't even play Billy, but I really love the stuff good Billys can do and think it's said to punish those guys despite the enormous amount of hours they put into him.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3385278#Comment_3385278
We can have a discussion about what a good reason is, but you cant prove me wrong cause you don't have statistics.
You do realize that by that logic applied neither can you uphold your point since you don't have evidence either... And since by the rules of a debate statements presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence your whole point is basically worthless as well...
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302365#Comment_3302365
It might because they may end up dying from the trap rather than sacrifice
Either way though, it would still make Amanda's secret better than it currently is
I can agree on the second part.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304940#Comment_3304940
Nurse does have counterplay but it's far more complex and less effective than any other killer counterplay in the game. Does not make sense to me where there's a killer like dredge where all you have to do is lock the lockers at the right time and the effectiveness of his power is minimised and then there's nurse where you have to imagine the point of view of the player and predict what the nurse player is predicting about you. So it does not really surprise me when most players aren't interested in playing against something so demanding and unusual, winning at that point is just not worth the effort.
I think the differences in how to play against every single killer make it fun... I don't want to have 30 m1 killers in the game that only differ in the way their build in game delay works... And I like that parts of the map that are usually useless against killer work for her... But they should impelement more edge map and high wall tiles in maps... The won't really do much for most other killers, but will help against nurse.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304937#Comment_3304937
Is there such thing as an average nurse though? I cannot remember ever having an even game involving a nurse. Either survs rofl stomp her because she can't hit blinks or she is dropping every surv in seconds.
She is really a one trick pony. And that trick is too effective, the whole point of the game for killer is get to surv and hit them as fast as possible. And a skilled nurse can do that extremely quickly.
Her power isn't that versatile and currently is very hard to counterplay effectively with the 2nd blink. I'm saying weaken it a bit and maybe buff her move speed so she can M1 a little more effective.
Give her one blink, and maybe something conditional around it, perhaps undetectable until she hits a surv or a base movement speed increase after getting a blink hit. Make the blink harder but reward her for it or make it easier to hit that.
Ofc there is something like an average nurse... Already just because of how averages work... And most nurses are average, most can be delayed and fall for one or the other trick... She cannot hit her blinks effectively if you broke line of sight, if you make her guess that will help a lot.
I don't like the idea of making her M1 possible because if she is faster than the survivor she does not solely rely on her blinks for traveling making breaking line of not as effective anymore. I would not change too much about her core concept, but just crank down her addons and make exposed not work.
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@MrMori said:
I HATE Nurse. When I think about playing against a Nurse, my heart starts pumping so fast and hard. And I get so angry that I clench my teeth till they start hurting. I begin hyperventilating as my eyes fill with tears. Sometimes I can't hold it in and just scream, as loudly as I can and slam my mouse into my desk when I hear that first screech of the match. Often after the match is finally over, I begin crying and scratching my arms as hard as I can,. Then I lie down on my bed and I try to slow the rate of my breath. I just ######### hate Nurse so much.
So you are either memeing here or you should seriously consider quitting the game, because that is not healthy dude... That's just not worth it dude xD
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@OrangeBear said:
I think survivors should be able to see where the nurse is blinking, so reverse plaid flannel. Because the most common complaint about the nurse is that it feels like she has no counterplay.
That would not really help much to be honest... First of all you already know how far the nurse will blink based on the time she holds her blink and if her fist is clenched, then you can just flick at the last second same as slinger or huntress... To blink somewhere else... You might have enough time to run away from the spot if it is her first blink and it is fully charged... But it won't do anything against her second blink if she knows what she is doing... So it might even be a false friend in the sense that survivor might rely to much on the unsafe destination of her blink and not take into account that she can flick...
Most players just have no clue what to do about nurse, but don't even take the time to learn the stuff you could do or search for guides... I played nurse for a few months in the beginning of this, basically completely learning her from the start until somewhat okayish, that alone helped me a lot to understand what works against nurse... And like I said before, there are guides on what to do about her...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMlBH9t6ARwThis one for example... I find it very helpfull, and I really like going against nurse, because breaking line of sight and so on is really fun to me.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304273#Comment_3304273
In a comp setting? So basically against some of the best Survivors in the game, with certain restrictions in place? I suppose so. I wouldn't know, I dont really watch the comp streams.
Tbh it's not comps I'm worried about. The game needs to be fun for the majority of the playerbase. And if a killer is an auto win at the start of a match because the killer player is decent with them and the survs aren't god tier players then it isn't balanced.
That's my question... How good does the survivor need to play to get gens done and leave against a decent nurse? You will often face autowins on both sides... Because of matchamking putting together people that mastered a strong killer against weak survivors or playing a terrible map as a weak killer... What is important for me in that regard is if we match players of equal skill together is it somewhat balanced who wins... If yes it's fine and matchmaking is the only problem for not matching people properly... if not we need to rebalance... And I don't think that's the case... If it is possible at the highest skill level on both sides I don't think it is guaranteed to be unbalanced at lower skill levels...
So once again... Do you think the average survivor players can win against an average nurse, that gets juked by line of sight breaking and other stuff you can do about nurse...
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303834#Comment_3303834
It's just the way her power works, what you're pointing out would be weaknesses, introduced by a nerf. Which would make her less effective. I mean how many other killers can reliably down and hit a survivor through a solid wall? And it wouldn't be impossible, if you can successfully predict the survivor's movement then you still hit them. Mind games.
The point is, my whole reasoning of suggesting that she goes down to 1 blink is so she can't just blink through a wall figure where surv is, blink again and hit them. Atm in the hands of a decent nurse player she is impossible to avoid. Because the second blink gives her a backup attempt that she really doesn't need.
Can we agree that in a comp setting with perk and item and addon restriction the Nurse does not always win? Correct me if you disagree... So if we nerf/remove the range addons (that are not allowed in comp as far as I know) then if the survivors are as good as a comp nurse and are not limited in what they bring they would be more likely to win than the nurse? (Given that it's currently 50 50 or so ... somewhat balanced I guess)
What I want to say with that is when comp players go against a comp Nurse and both parties can win in a comp setting, if we remove limitations I would think the best stuff survivors can bring is stronger than the best stuff the nurse can bring...
The question is now what do we balance around? Because I would say in a comp setting Nurse is balanced with all those restrictions, and if we remove the stuff from her that is not allowed in comp for being too opressive, than I think she can be dealt with... The question is just how good does a survivor have to be to be equal to the nurse...
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@Raptorrotas said:
So why does nurse have to be changed if we could just ... Buff the actually clunky or "weak" killers?
There was a thread a few days ago, about the theoretical situation that all killers except nurse were buffed to be on blights level. No one there actually thought about the theoretical situation and kept repeating the "lets gut her or break her even more" ideas.
It question is what are we balancing around on both sides? If we are buffing around average solo survivors than every killer A tier and above needs to be nerfed and all weaker killers are somewhat fine and don't need changes... If we are balancing around a 4 man veteran swf with coms then nurse is basically fine and every other killer in the game needs to be brought to A tier level of power... Which is basically impossible, how in the world are you gonna make basic M1 killers that strong?
I would like to go a middle way... in the sense of giving most killers, if possible such a high skill ceiling to reach that their true strength would not be usable for the average killer player... Like Huntress or Blight for example... Because that would mean somewhat of a balance between equally strong players... If done correctly...
But yeah, I don't think we should really gut all really strong killers but try to buff everything below B tier to B tier and give all A and S tier killers mechanics that are really demanding to master... The skill you need to master a killer should reflect how good the killer is... The hardest killer in the game should be one of the strongest killers in the game... Which works for Blight, but not for Billy.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303834#Comment_3303834
It's just the way her power works, what you're pointing out would be weaknesses, introduced by a nerf. Which would make her less effective. I mean how many other killers can reliably down and hit a survivor through a solid wall? And it wouldn't be impossible, if you can successfully predict the survivor's movement then you still hit them. Mind games.
The point is, my whole reasoning of suggesting that she goes down to 1 blink is so she can't just blink through a wall figure where surv is, blink again and hit them. Atm in the hands of a decent nurse player she is impossible to avoid. Because the second blink gives her a backup attempt that she really doesn't need.
She can still be delayed long enough for gens to be done... Also what kind of mind games? I mean... When you are behind a wall and she is on the other side what are you mind gaming here? Your just hoping she guess wrong at that point... mind games in book need some form of input you give the other side to interpret... When she has no clue where but behind the wall what are you mindgaming?
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303841#Comment_3303841
I dont think CoB+Eruption will last long. Maybe this Mid-Chapter or the one after it. It will get changes, Im sure about it.
Maybe, but do you really think that Jolt and Sloppy will become top tier regression perks that nurse would need to be prevented from using? And considering how long Ruin lasted in its former state I would not bet that those perks will get changed soon...
It took them 2.5 years to change hex ruin from the 200% regression to the current one...
January 2020 to July 2022...
So if we base it on the current state I think there are like 5+ slowdonwn perks people will run over jolt and sloppy: No way out, Deadlock, Eruption, Overcharge, Call of Brine, Pain Res, DMS and probably some more. I full agree on removing exposed effect from her, even though it probably won't happen since then those perks would be unusable on nurse, which the developers probably don't want. There are probably like 10+ exposed perks and then another 10 (I guess, that need basic attacks) that would not be usable on nurse if her blinks were special attacks. Therefore I highly doubt they would change exposed to not work on her, even less all perks that need basic attacks...
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But also no Jolt, Sloppy and other stuff... how about just no exposed perks on her blinks? Serves the same purpose in that regard... I'd rather have a nurse run jolt and sloppy than call of brine eruption...
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I think there are ways to make her weaker by limiting certain interaction on her without having to do much about her basekit... Besides the obvious stuff of not having exposed work on her and making her addons weaker I think there are things you could do ... I kind of like the idea of a shorter lunge, but I also think it is not a good idea to have killer specific lunge distances again, apparently they were in the game once and got changed... Nurse as well as the 110% ms killers as far as I am aware... But since her lunge after blink is not different from any other killers m1 lunge... (as far as I know) I don't think we should change that part of her.
The thing with letting survivors see the spot nurse will blink to is technically a good idea but won't change much against good nurse since they can just flick and the second blink will still get you in time.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303755#Comment_3303755
I mean that fits the point of the thread, nurse needs a nerf
Nerfing her does not include making some tiles spots where you will spend minutes until you get a hit or get lucky... That sounds like terrible design... And there is ways to nerf her without going overboard... High wall tiles are already quite good against her when breaking line of sight, I don't think they need to be a free pass to get rid of her because it kind of sounds like that when you have to blink through a wall withtout knowing where the survivor is but being forced to do so because you cannot catch up otherwise.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303752#Comment_3303752
You mean like literally every other killer?
I meant the close range blink by that, what do you mean by every other killer?
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Not having a second blink makes every mistake much more punishing and might even put you in loose loose situations where you cannot clearly know where the survivor is, so you have to guess, but now you cannot correct it anymore with the second one, that's why I find that thing fairly problematic... Imagine a 4 lane and the survivor is just running along to long wall, while being slower than him you cannot really catch up and blinking is rather tough since there are so many options for him to take.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303730#Comment_3303730
I can certainly dodge her on short range blinks. Round a corner you can double back to juke them out. Pallets are often a 50/50 depending on if they predict your vault properly. The first blink is the longest single jump she makes, it has a pretty decent range. Not sure this is already the case but mid blinks survs should be invisible like in spirits phasing.
She still needs to be effective in some way, there's no point nerfing her into the ground. Because then she'd never get used at all like twins or freddy. The second blink gives nurse players chance to fix a bad blink. Her fatigue timer is pretty long, one blink means she can't just double blink to make up the distance. So she can't drop survs from stupid long distances.
You cannot dodge her by running away, maybe if she looses track of you otherwise not...
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303609#Comment_3303609
I mean this is kind of the point. I think the fact that she can easily down people from such a distance is what gets people salty. If it was a more short range power she could only use effective on pallet loops and around corners it would be more balanced. Maybe buff her move speed a little to compensate.
Then you will create the whole issue we already talked about that short range blinks are basically not possible to be properly dodged... When Nurse blinks at you from less than like 6-8 m or so she will basically hit you guaranteed, that's why keeping her at distance is so important. If you make it so she can basically only short range blink you will maybe make her weaker but even more annoying since then there is nothing you can do about dodging blinks anymore. If she only ever uses her blinks at pallets and windows that would be terrible. There are enough killers in this game that just wait for you to be locked in animation to make Nurse also one of them...
I think we have a different understanding of balance here...
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/356457/for-people-that-want-nurse-nerfed
Simple, give her one blink and rework her add ons that change the number of blinks. And the achievement for triple blinking and grabbing.
Double blinking is a hell of a crutch for her. Since she can blink through walls, she doesn't need a second chance to hit people like wesker does.
From a higher distance one blinking people becomes basically impossible since the travel time gives survivors enough time to run out of your lunge range when you blink the full 20 m, even if you blink perfectly where they were... That's why the 2nd blink is often needed to get the hit, especially when you blinked a longer distance.
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@ProHillbillyMain said:
Btw why do people bring up her killrate?
Do you realise that, new players and console players exist and they can't be good with her? (affects killrate)
That's the problem with this killrate, because it includes also console players, they can't master this killer to its full potential.
I guess they are talking about the top 5% mmr killrates, that should exclude newer players. I think people overestimate how many god nurses there are that absolutely annhilate the enemy no matter what.. Because most Nurses are just not that good and that explains why her killrate even at top mmr is how it is... I mean we all know that matchmaking will put even Alf with some random guys so even the average players seem to not always loose against a top 5% mmr nurse.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301361#Comment_3301361
Why would you put a trap on a survivor that is on death hook..?
You don't have to hook them either when on death hook either you can just put the trap on them again and leave them to be slugged lol or just like not use the trap on them? I don't get what u mean
What are you even talking about? I just said you will get value out of 8 traps at most, since trapping people that will die on hook does not give you value... I have no clue how you ended up where ever you currently are?
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You could say that sometimes you won't get the hook after putting a trap on because of a pallet or flashlight safe or something like that, but then you would need to take cases into account where you don't 12 hook, because in those cases you most likely would not have been able to get value out of your 8 traps anyway... So overall you will get to use a maximum of 8 traps effectively, even if the number would be technically unlimited...
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300857#Comment_3300857
I never said it should only be 8?, my suggestion was to make Amanda's secret allow the traps to be reused after being taken off or able to find/build more from lockers
This is also with the tradeoffs being purple rarity, disabling jigsaw box auras, and lowering her speed to 4.4m/s
Also don't forget about the fact that the traps don't activate until a gen is done after placing it so it cannot really be abused much
It is 8 if you put a trap on every survivor after you down and before you hook them... At that point you have hooked everyone 2 times... Putting a trap on them when they are on death hook does not do anything... Therefore it is basically 8.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297555#Comment_3297555
Thats the tradeoff, less chase power for limitless head traps
It's not really limitless, it is 8 unless you want to slug people to death.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297557#Comment_3297557
Imo it's worth it for reusable traps, just 2 more isn't enough you still run out and you still have to box patrol or run face the darkness to get good value out of them
You get value out of them just by placing them on survivors, there is no need to patrol boxes, since the guy getting rid of the trap is not progressing the game, he is not doing gens... He is being kept busy by just having to get rid of the trap. Unless you want to tunnel him out there is no reason to go for the guy with a trap, just go for someone else... This way 2 survivors are not doing gens instead of just one guy that already did not do gens even before you started chasing him just because of the trap.
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@illumina said:
You know, Nurse is supposed to be "Very Hard" but every single Nurse that I have been against has been professional blinkers. I've had 1-2 nurses that I've been able to escape from out of 512 hours of survivor in this game. Do new Nurses not exist anymore or is she not as "Very Hard" as it describes? She seems hard as hell for me to play for sure.
For me it is like the opposite, out of all the nurses I've gone against very few of them have been good in chase, sure they downed me eventually, but it took them quite some time... The basics work fairly well against most nurses in my experience... Block line of sight take random pathing or bring them to a building that has much stuff inside ... Main buildings on most maps or the one house on bedham for example. Nurse can be really frustrating when you are first learning her.
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@midirams said:
No shade, but i dont understand how people think nurse is ok. If the nurse is competent there is very litte you can do to stop them. Sure, if the nurse is bad you can juke her with LOS or just by running into her when she charges a blink, but if they know what they're doing there isnt much you can do. Not to mention rediculous addons and starstruck on her. Her power fundamentally breaks the game and needs a rework to be fair IMO.
The same goes for Spirit and Blight... If someone has mastered them then you don't have much more controll over the game than as nurse... That's just the thing about high tier killers, all you can is delay them for some time to get gens done.