Archol123
Archol123
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@Zaydin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575767#Comment_3575767
Whenever I dare suggest that SWF mains whine that no killer would ever play against a full SWF, almost like SWFs are not fun for Killers to play against. They don't appreciate it when you point that out to them.
The question is not if they are in a swf but if they are good players, that's why some swf are hard to beat because they have coordination and know how to play the game, and even then it only becomes relevant with 4 men swf, which are a small portion, duos being the big majority. If you have swf like I used to have one with 2 people having no clue how to properly loop and only me and some other guy being able to loop somewhat properly balance is not the issue.
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Both sides have completely busted things, some maps are just terrible design and so on and so forth and I still cannot believe that they keep stuff in the game that is clearly ridiculous, like tombstone piece...
Overall the game doesn't lean to one side being more favored than the other, it is just both sides have ridiculous stuff that should be adjusted.
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@Monlyth said:
This is kind of a rough concept for a rework so far, but I thought I'd put my ideas out there for other people to see.
I like the Knight as a concept. Summoning minions, aka Guards, to help me in chase is really cool, and I love doing pincer attacks with them or flushing Survivors out with them. But I'm also aware that a lot of people don't think Knight is all that fun to play against, particularly because of his ability to 3gen and stall.
I also personally don't like how Knight's power often encourages a passive playstyle. His power is very difficult to avoid, but it can also take a little while to actually result in a hit, and consequently it often feels like Knight is at his weakest when he's using his power to aggressively chase, rather than to kick gens, break pallets, or harass Survivors while he's doing something else. Despite the fact that his chase mechanics can be so oppressive. I'd much prefer to adopt a more aggressive playstyle with him, have his zoning tools be more geared towards offense, and that's the main goal of this rework.
Right now, I think there are a couple aspects of his power that incentivize passive play over chasing:
-The Knight needs to stand still for several seconds when deploying a Guard at long range. This means the Knight loses a lot of distance if he uses the Guard at the start of a chase, even with the Haste bonus they added. This can make a chase go on for quite a while in some cases. Thus, the Guard is much more effective if the Knight catches the Survivor by surprise with it (Like if they're on a generator), or if the Knight uses it to proxy camp.
-The first thing the Guard does after being deployed is walk back towards the Knight. This is less than ideal in many chase scenarios, as it often forces you to send the guard out further to try and predict the Survivor's path, thus losing even more distance. But it makes the Knight's power well-suited for guarding a specific small area... like a 3-gen.
So, the main changes:
1) You can now charge up M2 for a short duration with slightly-reduced speed. Once charged, you can press M1 to send out a guard or Ctrl to make it break a pallet/wall/generator nearby. (Or, alternatively: pressing M1 after charging M2 will break a pallet/wall/gen if you're looking at one, or send out a Guard if you're not looking at one.)
2) When you send out a guard, it will immediately start patrolling in the direction you're facing, walking around any obstacles in its path. It will continue in that direction until it hits the edge of the map, and then it will make a 90° turn in a random direction. The rest of the Patrol and Hunt mechanics remain largely the same.
So, what does this mean? It means that the Knight can send out a Guard to start running towards a Survivor the moment he sees one without stopping to draw a patrol path, but the Guard is unlikely to spot them unless Knight actually starts chasing the Survivor. He can also use the Guard to generally harass Survivors, but they're less effective at, say, proxy camping or holding a 3-gen since the Guards can't appear out of nowhere to surprise Survivors, and will walk past the generator or hook if the Knight sends a Guard towards them.
This may come with a lot of number adjustments; maybe the detection radius starts off small and slowly grows bigger to give Survivors a chance to get away at close range, maybe it takes less time for the Hunt to start if the Guard spotted the Survivor at the very end of their patrol, maybe the Guards' patrol movespeed should be buffed since you'll usually see them coming a mile away, but that's the gist of the rework. A Knight that (Hopefully) spends a lot less time patrolling the same tiny segment of the map and a lot more time trying to corner the nearest Survivor with aggressive Guards, like a proper medieval hunting party.
I'm aware that this doesn't solve some of Knight's chase issues; namely, that there are a lot of tiles where taking a hit is inevitable if the Guard spots you, but hopefully with these changes, getting spotted/cornered is no longer guaranteed and requires better play/predictions on the Killer's part. And I, as a Knight main, think that's worth it if I don't have to stand still to use my power anymore.
TL;DR: The Knight doesn't draw patrol paths anymore, instead he just instantly sends out the Guard to patrol in the direction he chooses.
As for the too long didn't read, the guards would get stuck on everything just like the Zombies, that's probably the reason you dra paths, because the pathfinding they progranmed is so god awful...
Would be a nice quality of life buff if you could use a seperat hot key to let the guards break something.
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@Jigsawbg said:
yeah,they made pallets and windows to help survivor in chase but they also made killer who dont give a F about those things-0 logic
However high walls and other line of sight blocker help against her, just like her counter play is unique and does not work like the other killers...
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573594#Comment_3573594
I heard that they removed the ability to do the drag over objects since the last couple of patches. I tested it last week and have been unable to drag over objects vs how I was able to previously, so im inclined to agree they removed that feature. The video you presented is 2 months old.
I didn't really see anything about that in any patchnotes, so I cannot really say if or if not, but not as far as I'm aware. I think Scott mentioned something that the timing got changed? But I'm not sure 100%.
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@DrKetchup said:
Every single time I go against her my teammates give up. I don't mind playing against her, I take it as a challenge and I want to see how much I can survive in chase. But my teammates flat out go afk and give up, EVERY SINGLE TIME!
If this would be a once-in-a-time occurrence, I'd understand, but this is just too much for someone like me playing SoloQ, the moment I hear that blink cross the map I already know what will happen... Please BHVR completely rework the way her power works. 🙏
I think she is fine as she is, at least her counterplay is unique, it is just different than any other killer, and if the players don't want to learn it there is not much you can do... Unless you want to give Nurse a completely different power, basically making her a new killer then I don't see much to be done here.
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@Krazzik said:
I mean Trickster did need a buff since he's a fairly weak killer and also a very unpopular killer to play. Which is weird since his skins seem to sell well but then people just don't actually play him, he's easily in the bottom 5 killers I see as survivor.
He's also really unfun to play against for most survivors. Even though he's inconsistant and overall not that good, when he -is- in a good chase location, there's not much survivors can actually do against him. It basically comes down to, are you near a high-wall loop/building? Yes - He's bad, No - You're going down really fast.
My main concern with these changes though, besides the fact I'll end up going against more Tricksters which isn't great, is that it's a LOT of big buffs coming at the same time. The movement speed buff is already huge and add to that the much more fequent Main Event AND no recoil or windup time for his knives? It's a lot.
His core issue of not being fun to go against at all just does not get adressed... Like the issue is dodging knives basically means nothing because there is so many of them, and instead of realising that they cannot fix this core concept for him they just go down the same path of giving him more knives, but he also needs more to get a health state, that does not adress the issue in the slightest, how can they not realise that. Ok great now he needs more knives for a health state, but the gameplay stays the same and is still not any better, I'm just afraid that killers who are actually more fun to go against, like Huntress, become less played because Trickster might be stronger for the casual player and does not require much skill, you don't even need to counter the recoil now. It is kind of sad.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575067#Comment_3575067
The same non-existent point you are trying to make.
That statement alone doesn't make sense but whatever dude.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575033#Comment_3575033
You can use even less skill to hold w around tall walls and counter both.
So what? Just shows he is bad design, that's my whole point, he is a terrible killer. Huntress can still get hits in jungle gyms and such despite them having high walls so what exactly is your point?
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574992#Comment_3574992
The 4.6m/s change doesn't change his speed while throwing knives. It simply helps him out at tiles where his power is difficult to use, because unlike other killers he has to hit his power several times to do anything.
Yeah and his power is also really easy to hit since he has barely any windup, he is just a less skillfull huntress...
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@Raconteurminator said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574788#Comment_3574788
DBD is an asymmetrical survival horror game, not a party game. And I'm not assuming anything. Some people don't have mics, some people can't afford them, some people don't want to use mics (and that's fine); a mic should not be a requirement, which is what it would be if the game was balanced around verbal communication to provide information. Balancing the game around voice chat would require Killers to be buffed, which would only negatively impact those not on mics. And let's be real here - interacting with this lovely community more than is absolutely required should not be a thing forced upon anyone. And last time I checked, those other games had text chat, so it's not a fair comparison.
If the game was created with voice chat in mind, some time during the last eight-ish years, Behaviour would have added voice chat. Your personal incredulity is not an argument.
It used to basically advertised as a party game to play with your friends, I'm not saying it is a horror game, because in my mind it is not. If you can afford a pc that runs this game then you can also afford a mic for 10€, headsets are really not that expensive... Also nobody forces you to buy one, your teammates can still give you information, even if you cannot reply.
I would also like to have text chat as well, sure why not both? It is just more impractical to type while doing things, the games I mentioned have both that's true, but more often then not you are too busy playing to type as well, which is why voice chat is the better option, but like I said both would be nice.
Just because those games have that feature does not mean you cannot play them if you don't have it... If you go against spirit listening to her phasing without a headset or really good speakers makes it harder to hear where she is, just because something puts you at a disadvantage does not make it a requirement, also if you don't want to use something that's fine, but then you cannot really complain about not having the benefit of using it.
You are not forced to communicate with anyone, you can just mute people like in any other reasonable game... The point is this way we have a player base that is homogenous to balance around otherwise you will always have seperat Ed parts of different strength it would still be your choice whether or not you communicate with your team, just like in any other game.
Bahaviour took years to give us basic settings like being able to deactivate anti aliasing and you think we would get such a feature? We don't even have a mute option for specific players in post game chat or a replay function, spectator mode is also a mess... I think we don't have such options not because they didn't think of them but because they are either unwilling or unable to provide them.
I think it would be a better state of balance to have a group you can balance around vs the current version we have.
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@Ariel_Starshine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574722#Comment_3574722
Yep I'm one of them! I throw up from first person games, even just watching them, and with how ridiculously narrow dbd fov is on killer I threw up right next to my desk first time I tried killer. It was great!
My health and well being is worth far more than a lolgame.
And then you decide to buy a game where 50% of its content is first person? Questionable decision, but you do you...
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@Raconteurminator said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574725#Comment_3574725
The thing is, the game wasn't designed or balanced around voice chat, and still isn't balanced around voice chat. Because it can't be - a game cannot be balanced around something that isn't provided by the developer, because they don't know how many people have access to it, and they want as few barriers to people playing the game as possible.
To add voice chat to a game close to eight years after release would require a tremendous amount of work to re-balance the game, would cost Behaviour a lot time and money (both from having to deal with regulating and moderating chat for violations -- in multiple languages -- as well as the implementation costs themselves), and make approximately zero back. It would also cement voice chat as all but essential and add a barrier to playing.
The issue is that there's a discrepancy between voice chat and the information provided by the HUD - it just goes the other way. You have all the information you were intended to have while voice chat has far more. Nothing can be done about voice chat, so Behaviour doesn't make a big deal out of it, but I don't think the solution is to throw more in-game information at players to match it.
Even in 2016 it was fairly obvious that people would sit in voice when playing a game with friends, as far as I am aware that was the intention of the devs, dbd as a party game... So you cannot really say they did not see this issue to begin with.
The 2nd question is what exactly are we balancing around currently? I think according to the latest revealed data about 50% of people are playing solo the rest is in some form of swf, duos being the vast majority, so by creating a voice chat you have a more homogenous group to balance around and not this mix we currently have. You would be able to get a far more balanced version of the game which would be great.
Assuming that people are unable to buy a headset and therefore be able to access voice chat is just ridiculous, I don't know how this goes for the switch but any other console has the option to use voice chats, as far as I know, so I don't really see an issue there? Also voice chat is never required to play the game, even in Dota 2 or other mobas or counter strike and other shooters, just because it is there does not mean you have to use it, so it is not really a barrier that keeps you from playing.
Like before mentioned creating a game and not thinking about voice chats outside of the game being a thing while balancing is just plain stupid... So you cannot really tell me they didn't create it with voice chat in mind, because then they would be really dumb... Like come on... You create a game that you think of as an online horror party game and you don't think of your players being in Skype discord teams peak, there is no way anybody is that stupid...
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@MikeStev said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574725#Comment_3574725
I have been playing from 2017, without HUD i can still play solo survivor without a problem.
Yeah sometime no one saving you from hook until second phase so what? Not all match like that.
When they introduce HUD, my own solo survivor coordination improved a lot.
HUD let you know :
- Who going for save / unhook
- Who chased by killer
- Which survivor still healing themselves or healing each other
- Anyone open the exit gate?
- Which survivor works on which generator
Etc
Want more?
Bring Key with aura addon (see aura survivor or killer)
Use aura perk Aftercare, Bond , Empathy, Situational Awareness, Lucky Star etc
Use aura perk for see where killer : Alert, Fogwise, Darksense etc
No need to bring Windows of Opportunity, Made For This, Exhaustion perk EVERY MATCH
Come on
You seem to be ignoring my point completely... The point is there is no reason to not have a voice chat in a modern game in 2023,we re not in the early 2000s anymore, basically any online multi-player game with teams has a voice chat. There should not be an information gap between people playing with friends while being in discord VS people who play solo and for some stupid reason this is the only game I can think of that has this...
The HUD does not let you know which concrete Gen people are working on neither does it let you know if someone is going for the unhook, they might as well be ore running from the killer and therefore not being in chase, also since you don't get specific locations of players you don't necessarily know if you need to go for the unhook despite being the furthest away.
You should not have to bring more to be on the same level, also this limits what otherwise can be brought in, if you being aura reading you cannot bring a medkit or a toolbox or a perk, depending on what gives you the aura reading.
My point is if you play with voice chat there is no reason for any of those mentioned perks because your mates will give you the information... It is really not that hard to understand that even when you use all those perks to get a similar amount of information that you are still at a disadvantage because you cannot as well run the other stuff that helps you out, that's my whole point... If you are fine with that difference then so be it, but you cannot tell me that there is not difference because there definitely is...
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@MikeStev said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574721#Comment_3574721
Thats why they introduce HUD, right? To improve solo queue so why asking for voice chat again?
Because the gap still exists? The HUD only reduced it... That's the whole point. The HUD does not give you the same amount of information as being in a voice chat does....it is that simple.
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@PortaI_2 said:
I have a pretty good Escape/Death rate again every Killer as I have been keep track this season.
But one outlier Mastermind 10 games against him all loses. Why?
He can spam the power which is unlimited, no downsides like nurse or blight, no reloading this power like huntress or DeathSlinger, no special way to build up the power like Oni , automatic recharge after mere seconds, while in a chase, no downside effects.
He does mobility better than Hillbilly. He can instantly rush around the map easier and more comfortably than Hillbilly. Hillbilly most tactically dodge around the smallest of obstacles and even if a slither of wall sicks out he instantly loses his mobility. Wesker just ignores every wall and just slides around, completely rushing from one end to the other. Has an add-on to break pallets like Hillybilly and if not, who cares just jump it like Legion. Not to mention Hillybilly's hitboxes are BROKENLY small, while Mastermind's is BROKENLY too Large.
Has superior slow-down than Pig. Pig is a slow killer who needs to actually put some work into slowing down before gens can get done to get her slow down which done right can slow the game down more than Mastermind. But Wesker has instantly slows down the game using is power, forcing survivors to take time out of the match to run across the map to open a SLOW box, than watch a SLOW spray animation. Pig games has 5 traps at most, Wesker can make each survivor have to do this at least TWICE if you have just the slightest skill.
Has better infection than Nemesis. Nemesis's tentacle actually needs to be aimed decently, even when keyboard players are spaming left/right making his infection easily to miss. And guess what even if you hit him, oh no they just turn blue wow! So you need to hit them twice with this inaccurate whip or get a random zombie hit...... Wesker not only infects them but ALSO hurts them? What? So not only is it easier to infect them, it automatically causes damage to. Only in extremely rare cases he throws you and you don't hit a wall, do you not get the extra damage. Plus why does infection continue, WHILE in CHASE?
There should be barrels around the map to reload the power, or make infection not also cause damage to a non-infected player.
The only reason I see him in the game is to give bad players something to play, that while is pick rate is through the roof.
Half of what you re saying is just wrong dude... Wesker also has a similar cooldown after power use as Blight, blights power takes 3 seconds per charge, Wesker takes 6 seconds per charge, but can be reduced if people are infected, therefore it is wrong to say he has no cooldown. Using both his charges moves him around 21m,how on earth is this supposed to bet better than Billy's chainsaw? If you saw longer than 3-4 seconds you have already traveled a bigger distance than Wesker, also wesker power needs to be channeled for like 1.5 seconds before he can use it, while Billy needs to Rev for 2.5 seconds, also not that much of a difference like you make it out to be.
The hit boxes are a bit too technical for my knowledge, I can only say that current Weskers hit boxes were a result of several changes where they were too small so you would clip through survivors models and not hit them or collide with everything.
Weskers slowdown is less than Pigs for sure, you can just grab a spray whenever you run around the map and find a box and then spray yourself two times with it, whereas against pig you have far more running around the map and I think searching boxes also takes a lot longer than the sprays.
I guess this is just a rant because you don't seem to know how to play against him, because comparing Nemesis and Wesker like that just does not work... The devs even explained there reasons for why his power needs 3 hits and it is rather simple to use, especially with the dragging of the hit box whereas Weskers power offers far more cool ways to be used around tiles.
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@MikeStev said:
No need voice chat in this game, HUD is enough.
Use your game sense rather than your voice to figured out what your teammate doing or planning doing
The question is do you want to close the gap between swf and solo or not? If so you need voice chat, if not then you will keep the issue that there are two groups of players of different strength you need to balance around...
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@Droneinthrwind said:
I don't want to play him. He sits at level 1 and always be at level 1. He's ugly and probably smells bad too.
Not completing this tome because of it and definitely not buying rift pass. Don't lock tome paths behind specific characters ever again bhvr. Even if they are "free".
Jesus dude, it is just a skin, get over it... It is not like you have to play a specific character with a certain playstyle on killer side, it is the same gameplay as with every other survivor character.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574360#Comment_3574360
is that a reason not to implement it?
Yes.
You make it sound like it didn't take pushing to get bHVR to giddy up and get that to the top of the priority list and get implemented. I recall also seeing a response from someone being paraded on social media as tone-deaf in regards to implementing that feature. It certainly was not feature that was gonna be added. The heartbeat was also found to be used by a lot of people too, I play with it constantly and I don't even have hearing problems. its just nice to have and see it as well.
Visual heartbeat was a good idea and there was a strong community push for it, built in discord has not convinced me yet.
There is no game where 100% of people is using a certain feature, being it voice chat or whatever setting, just having the option is a good thing... Also it is not build in discord, games had voice chat longer than discord even exists... There is almost no game where you play with other people in a team that does not have this feature.
Even the language Barrier is not really an argument because most people speak English and even if you have some in your lobby that, generally speaking most of the time you would at least have one teammate that speaks English, so it is already a benefit and nobody forces you to use it either, if you don't like it don't use it, if people speak nonsense mute them, it is really that easy and not much of a struggle, if you don't like the feature deactivate it, but just because you don't personally like to talk with the people on your team or don't want to hear them does not mean it is a good reason to not implement it, because if you are able to mute the voice chat globally then nothing changes for you.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574363#Comment_3574363
Well, no. I'm not saying the game should be 100% balanced around comp DBD.
What I am saying is that it's currently a complete waste of time for anyone to use the comp DBD as evidence for game balance. It's also a complete waste of time for DBD tier lists to involve comp DBD in any way, shape, or form. Like, seriously. We don't care which killers do well in comp DBD, because it's not representative of public DBD at all.
If the point that gets brought up is that killer x is bad against good players than comp is basically an argument, but besides that sure, because of rules and all it is not necessarily a good argument otherwise...
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574256#Comment_3574256
If Comp DBD had zero custom rules, it could greatly help the DBD community, by highlighting game balance issues that happen at the competitive level.
But right now, there’s zero worth in trying to use comp DBD games as evidence for game balance, because it has so many custom rules that it’s not even remotely similar to public DBD matches.
Fair, but then you would need to rebalance everything and probably get rid of half the perks... And perks like old ruin or something like that would have never been changed, because on comp level it is not a problem... Neither was old Nurse ^^
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574263#Comment_3574263
It IS still part of the problem, like why would you implement a feature if people are just gonna turn it off.
waste of time, use discord.
Because some people don't use stuff, not a reason not to implement it... Not everyone is using the visible heartbeat or color blind mode, is that a reason not to implement it? ^^
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@Emeal said:
If you have friends its easier to use discord, if you have voice chat someone will shout slurs at you and I honestly dont want to spend my time muting every fool.
Usually games have options to opt out of voice chats, so that's not really an argument, you can just turn the feature off...
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574216#Comment_3574216
By my logic, if comp DBD wants to be taken seriously, it should get rid of the custom rules.
If this causes the escape rate to be extremely high, then so be it. If this causes some killers to have a win rate that’s less than 10%, then the DBD community should see that too.
Comp already takes out many killers because it would be too boring to watch, which is fair... If nobody wants to see something they won't have viewers and the thing will just die, why would you force it?
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@ProHillbillyMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574172#Comment_3574172
If you actually watched the VOD the eternal killer got 5 stages, then the killer from other team got a hook in end game with noed, they didn't have time to cleanse noed and to unhook so they just left, they could easily get out with 6 stages but they knew it's a loss with 6 stages so yes again max 6 hook stages.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574179#Comment_3574179
A true god weskers who play on a region with worst players? As I said, wesker is weak against good players, show me a video of one of the 4 playing against a good eu team for example.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574187#Comment_3574187
Right so by this logic if you allow everything the survivor will win always. They win even with half the perks banned because wesker is just a ######### overrated killer.
@LapisInfernalis Have you EVER faced a good player with wesker?
The guy had all 3 hook stages left though, which makes it 8 hookstages, usually that's how it works and why they maybe should have let someone else go down to preserve those hook stages, makes it 8 in my book ... Or are the rules in that tournament different for some reason?
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574173#Comment_3574173
If you look at the Wesker clip he posted above, you see that the killer rarely uses his power or any techs. This is a clear indication that they don't know the killer that well.
But you cannot use a single example to say that the best players in this game basically have no clue what they are doing mate... Like how even ^^
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574029#Comment_3574029
My point is:
He doesn't play like that anymore, using old setting to justify a current assertion about his ability is working in bad faith., intentionally deceptive in nature.
With the new slowdown after tail use, she could have left the loop.
Let's be clear, I've spent time fishing over objects with the tail to land these hits. And although fun, it doesn't mean the killer is competitive in tense matches. To be so the ability would have to be under the control of the user, its not so in the video. It could have taken a hundred tail tosses to hit, or just one. Raising the camera when in crawler mode might make things better.
You can hear the injured survivor. You can't figure their hit box edges out from sound. So aside from them still being at the loop, there isn't information to work with from the sound. As in, if the survivor ducked and moved, or just squatted on the ground.
The OP called for buffs. I feel something is needed. But, I'm not sure it should be a direct adjustment to the tail hitting things, I suspect some feedback buffs might be what's missing.
I still think he is alright, not all tiles are so high like this one where you basically cannot see the survivor at all, there are still tiles where you get a better idea of the survivor and can hit over, I only used that one since it is a really high tile that still allowed Xeno to get a hit and like I said before I don't know if the hit only landed then because the survivor was not properly in position or because Scott messed up the drag of the hitbox... I think if you get good enough you can consistently land those hits... Just think about Hug Tech with Wesker where you basically need to press the button frame perfectly to get the results you want and people still became good enough to accomplish that, I think the same is possible for this killer, you just need to take the time to practise.
Also I don't think she could have reached another tile, and even if, the tiles that are closed to those are much lower and give the Xeno probably a better chance to land a hit...
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574140#Comment_3574140
Even Nurse and Blight get demolished by the best teams, heck team Eternal defeated the 1hr Chess Merchant too (while following tournament rules). A strategy 99% of the playerbase would lose against.
You saying that Wesker is overrated is just not true. Also in tournaments, there are, like you said, specific rules. This also applies to the winning condition. Often the killer has to get a specific amount of hookstages, not kills. Getting 6 hookstages would be very good, even if nobody died.
And to clarify again: nobody cares about the strength of killers in comp DBD. Only what, 0.5% of the Playerbase are comp players? Idk. Tierlists tell you nothing. And most comp players do not play their killer to perfection. They just learnt how to camp/tunnel efficiently.
BTW: There was a time (2018/2019) when old old Freddy won a tournament. Why? Because it was a console only event and Nurse was ultra hard to handle on a controller and 30fps....
But if you have your set-in-stone-opinion I will no longer discuss with you. It's a waste of time.
I don't know about the statement that comp players don't play the killer to perfection... That's a tough claim my man ^^
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@ProHillbillyMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574135#Comment_3574135
I am not talking about 1v1, talking about 4v1 where we cannot use the same perks twice and some perks are also banned. So you can see even with half of the perks banned, wesker will get destroyed.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574118#Comment_3574118
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1963393655?t=02h50m03s
Here have fun, or you can ask directly on discord the players from that tourney.
So this is directly out of your replay, to me that looks like 8 hooks stages.... So do you want to change your statement? Also this seems to be eternal on the survivor side considering they are one of the if not the strongest comp team, this should mean something, don't you think? I also find it funny that you for some reason decided to send me a later match, where Wesker probably performed worse ^^ The one from where the picture is starts at around 1.16 h I think.
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@ProHillbillyMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574083#Comment_3574083
Point is, back then they didn't know how to play against him. Now he gets max 6 hooks with NOED xD
So you're telling me they had no clue how to play against him back then but did know how to pull off all his techs? Isn't it a given in comp to run noed? So this does not make this case any special does it? Also do you have some videos of 6 hooks max or something to prove your statement?
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@ProHillbillyMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3574077#Comment_3574077
Comp tierlist from november 2022, the killer gets nowadays max 6 hooks in comp when lucky.
You do realise that 6 hooks is quite good? Compared to what most killers get in comp? And that was probably even before all the techs he has got discovered... Since he was only out for a few months at that point. You think the other killers do better than Wesker? Also just because it was last updated back then does not mean it changed, because Wesker did not get any significant changes since then... So I don't see your point.
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@ProHillbillyMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573098#Comment_3573098
Wesker is literally free escape, people are overrating him, he is good against bad survs. But he is very bad against good ones.
I don't know man he gets used in comp so I don't think he is the worst... And when we have a look at Knightlights comp tierlist:
He is still the 7th best killer in the game, even before Plague... So I don't think he is bad against good survivors.
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@elarcoiris said:
Yep, I've just had my last encounter... I'm refusing to play against Onis anymore. Too hard playing by yourself and no chat on Switch.
He is the most basic m1 killer before getting his first hit and really fun while in his power but you do you I guess xD
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@okaayletsgoo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3571096#Comment_3571096
3000* been playing for 5ish years on and off.
You have 3000 hours and you don't know the phrase predropping???
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573594#Comment_3573594
Is that the original release cool down? Cause that's not how it works now.
The player went fishing. He took three hits to get his injury. There is no time for that with the cooldowns as they are now, when facing a competent team.
And if you look at the screen, he can't see what he's aiming at. Without wallhacks(and I'm sure we don't want that to be a requirement to be a good Xeno) You're guessing. Thats not skill based game play, thats just... guessing three times and getting it right, finally.
Moving his POV up in crawler mode could reduce some of these issues.
The cooldown stayed the same, only the movements peed during the cooldown got changed so I don't know what you are on about..
He took 3 attempts because hitting over the thing is hard, that's the skillfully component and the killer is rather new you cannot expect people to instantly be good at such stuff... Also why should you not have like 10 seconds to get a hit like that? Because that's all it took them, also the survivor did not really have a place to from that position.
The skill is being able to hit over the thing, also do you have ears? The guy was injured he could probably hear his cries and even if not so what he still got the hit, the point is not that you should force hits when you have no clue but that there is skillfully stuff like this to do with Xeno also this was just an example imagine other tiles that are a little bit lower where for example Nemesis cannot hit over but Xeno can.
If you cannot see that the dragging of the hitbox to get such hits is skillfully I cannot help you but say skill issue on your side.
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@Ariel_Starshine said:
Somehow a girl in a nurse outfit is stronger than Alien, and sadly, it's probably going to stay that way.
In what world is that a thing :(
The girl with telekinetic abilites that somehow also allow her to drag herself through space vs some alien beast with acid blood oh I wonder how...
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@CookieBaws said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573614#Comment_3573614
I don't think that an ability to flick should be a core power. That means that most people won't get most(if any) value from Xeno.
Why not? It is great if the killer has potential to make skillfull plays? Are you stating that dbd players are too bad to properly play the killer or what do you mean?
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@Virus285 said:
u are the ones who having skill issue tell me about bugs and ######### hes not that strong ######### like the video should be patched wallhack BS
If there are bugs should they not be patched and after that you can re-evaluate whether or not he is fine? Also what exactly are you talking about wallhacks? Hitting over such obstacles is what makes him strong... So let me get this straight ^^ You don't want the killer to be able to hit over such obstacles but then cry for buffs? LOL, what is your issue?
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https://youtu.be/_YJ_wPBfByo?t=391
At around 6.30min you can see the hit over the rock on Ormond, you cannot tell me the killer is bad when he is able to get hits like that.
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@Virus285 said:
no its not a skill issue there is no reason why his tail a simple mechanic should require a skill u cant quick scope everything for a basic attack ....thats insane needs to be buffed strong killer my ass barely mid
It is ^^ The skillfully interaction is knowing where you can hit over and how to drag his tail, for example he can hit over the rock with the pallet at snow plow on Ormond if you know how. He has great map mobility gets his power back within seconds of being in the tunnel and his power allows him to get hits over tiles basically no other killer can get... Try to learn how to use the power before you complain that he is bad...
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@Virus285 said:
Alien needs to be buffed
no point of bringing big licence when the killer is mid at best u can get around the map fast and thats good but he's garbage in chase his tail attack is not that useful it's hard to hit people with it and the cooldown of missing in insane u giving a lot of chances to good survivors which means the killer is mid even if u do mistake and cant repair it somehow the killer is not that good he needs to be buffed in chase or dont HYPE yr licenses that much when the killer isn't that good change hes tail attack miss cooldown this is insane
he need to deal with turrest as well which are annoying as ######### this happening all the time remove turrests completely stop nerfing killers this aint survivor game
just do something didnt bough the chapter and 15euro skin for nothing when the killer is mid at best ffs
Soooo people generally put him in A tier as a really strong killer, with a skill full component of precisely using the tail attack and you think he is weak? Buddy I don't know what to tell you but seems like a skill issue to me...
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@Zenislev said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573385#Comment_3573385
Kicking a gen costs you time, which is the most valuable resource you have as a killer. Stopping to kick a gen also often means that you're giving up a chase, all to apply an effect that survivors can undo by just tapping the gen. If anything, gen kick effects need to be significantly stronger, considering the costs involved and how easy it is to undo.
Did you play when the Gen kick meta was a thing? If not then I will kindly tell you why you are wrong and why this would be a terrible idea... First of all 3 gens against major regression without much of a conditions is terrible, people combined gen kick perks and got something around 300% of base regression combined with eruption, it dragged games out way too long, also yes kicking gens is most often not worth it and that is a good thing because instead of "mindlessly kicking gens should pay off" how about "deciding whether or not it is worth kicking a Gen is a skill full decision". Generally speaking regression perks that do not reward you for doing something in the sense of progressing the game are problematic,because it allows to prolong the game and get rid of pallets and such without progressing it via hookstates or downs, which makes it so it does not get limited uses. Yeah sure you need to kick the Gen but you get some instant regression + what comes after, it was the most boring gameplay when those perks were stronger because every killer just dropped chase to kick the Gen and then run off again and in the end it was still working out for them... If we buff gen kicking perks then not into giving more regression but something else, because nobody wants that stupid Gen kick meta back.
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@Grigerbest said:
Hi.
As you guys all know about the game rules of DBD (Tho you should check all game rules before playing any game), there is nothing in the game rules about "Survivors DC penalty avoiding" (purposely killing themselves on hook).
You can check here - https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/139-game-rules
It simply states this:
ABOUT DISCONNECTS BANS - DO NOT REPORT
Disconnections are penalized automatically by the disconnection penalty system. Please do not report people for disconnecting; no further action will be taken on these reports.
It's clear that "Killing yourself on hook to prevent the penalty and move on to the next match" should be a part of a Unsportsmanlike conduct, should be reportable, and should end up in a temporary ban if it's done on a regular basis, in terms of "Rage quitting".
Now let's move to the (imo) basic question - why? Or why it should be considered as unsportsmanlike conduct?
If some of you ever played ANY MOBA games like Dota 2, League, Smite, Overwatch 2, etc... You will find the same caterogy, but it might use a different words. Basically - Regular DC's from a match (or rage quitting), Griefing (standing afk, feeding your opponents, Interfering with your teammates game) will result in a temporary ban, which can go longer and longer after relapse.
Why DBD falls in the same category:
Aside from a killer gameplay. Survivor's gameplay unites a Team play or Working as a team. This makes the simple statement about this: By leaving a match (or feeding your opponents and etc), you as a player make the overall expirience from a match worse for other players, that you're playing with. And it should be cought by reporting this player's behaviour.
After recieving enough reports, a player who constantly violating the TOS, should end up in a punishment.
The problem I'm having with all this:
Somehow, "Killing yourself on a hook" is not considered as a reason to report. Imo it should be considered as "Rage quit". It's clear to me that this kind of behaviour is ruining the overall Impression about the game. Especially for newer players.
"I brought this game so If I don't wanna play against a legion, I can freely leave a match" - This is imo, the most ridiculous, selfish and unaware excuse that I sometimes see people bringing in this types of topics, I suppose that never played any MOBA games before, or have no morals and sympathy for any game's matches.
"We have bots now taking over a player, so it should be ok to DC from a match" - As ridiculous as previous one, the game like HotS (Heroes of the Storm), there were the same "bot replacement" but the players were still getting banned for leaving the games. Personally I think the bots are not treating the problem, even for killers. (At least right now)
This behaviour is unacceptable. You can not defend it by any means.
In my opinion, a player can freely leave (DC) from a match only with a few basic reasons:
- (Obviously) Playing against or with a cheater, that prevents players from completing a match.
- Killer (somehow) blocking in the obstacles 2 last survivors with gates are closed. Holding them hostage.
- Bugs and other circumstances that player can not control. (Getting stuck, killer's ability broke or gone and etc...)
- Server issues. That makes the match irritating to play without any control of a player. (Everyone in a match having high ping, server disconnects)
In any way, Mod's opinions are more relevant. Since they more educated in a game's TOS. But I still want to read about your opinions on that topic guys, feel free to write from your hearts!❤️
I think it can be alright to just give up on hook sometimes... For example when the match is already over, when one or several teammates are obviously trolling therefore ruining the game for the others and so on and so forth... At least from a moral standpoint the light of ruining other people's game. However I think if the mechanic of dying after missing skill checks or 4% exists then you cannot really complain if people do that... 4% is a stupid mechanic already, same goes for the 2nd phase skill checks, they could just remove them if they wanted to prevent this and if not then it is probably intended...
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@Ganksy_TTV said:
I don't want it to keep the same purpose, of bringing the haunt into the map, but I think the void is the perfect addition to the game to help the survivor/killer imbalance AND shake up the games a little bit in the same sweep.
The void is a great way to give those non mobile killers a reasonable way to traverse across the map, meaning more diverse killer builds so more fun for everyone, and slows down the game just a bit, so again, less gen slow down perks on killers and more interaction between killer and survivor for more exciting games. I'd change a few things about the void:
-make it so that the survivors know when a killer enters the void, maybe have the portal change color when the killer is coming out so they have a chance to leave a gen if the killer is coming to use pop or something, also opens up mind games with perks like dead lock.
-make the survivors need to pull multiple levers or something instead of the haunt, maybe add a lever every time a gen is completed so the survivors can choose when they want to pull them, also slightly hindering gen rush strats, while adding more mind games on the survivors side, awarding them time to do gens if they can trick the killer into taking the portal
The loops themselves are strong which I think is fine if the void stays this small, but maybe allowing killer powers in exchange for better loops and more space is smart. I'm not sure exactly how to balance this but I really hope this is bhvr testing the waters with a secondary survivor goal/way to help killers weaknesses
They should use those limited time events as custom game modes, that would be great, and I don't think people would complain much about balance there, because you can just not play the custom mode... But I Don't think it is a good idea to keep them... The argument that it helps low mobility killers is not that good, because you can just buff those killers, if survivors can use them as well then the mobility does not really mean anything. Also depending on where they spawn you cannot see anything through (door of shack) and it is a 50 50 if the survivor continued looping or went in, which is just so annoying, also inside the void would be really problematic, because of how strong the windows are, you should basically never follow because winning the chase in there is really rough.
So I summon:
- to solve bad mobility of killers, buff them with mobility, the void adds more problems there
- keep limited time events as custom game modes so people can play them (might even attract new players, if the mode is good enough... And allow community custom modes because why not)
- if void stays (in whatever form) : tune down how strong the tiles in the void are and make the portal entrances see through to get rid of that horrible 50 50
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3573104#Comment_3573104
Ok fair enough I forgot that it didn't enhance regression way back then XD (ps: accusing people of lying is a good way to make the conversation escalate).
The point stands though, the perk hasn't been so weak in years and it doesn't deserve to be further nerfed. The OverBrine Eruption meta basically caused every regression perk to be nerfed into oblivion, some Killers need at least some slowdown.
Yeah but there are other perks to use, the problem with Gen kick perks is that you don't need to do anything for it, you don't need to hook or down someone you just need to kick a Gen... So it is kind of fair, that it is not too strong, but I agree It could be changed to be more useful.
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@Skillfulstone said:
If anything, Overcharge is a way for new players to learn how to deal with hard skillchecks/hit great skillchecks. The moment players get used to it it becomes a borderline wasted slot since it got gutted.
It's weaker than it's ever been, having suffered an almost 70% nerf compared to it's previous version (alongside nerfing the extra regression on failure) and it needs 30 seconds to reach full strength.
If you cry for Overcharge nerfs now, I can barely imagine how you fared during the OverBrine Eruption meta.
"Weaker than it's ever been"... Yeah that's a lie dude... May I remind you what Overcharge did before patch 6.1.0?
So you maybe should not exaggerate like that...
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@caipt said:
skill issue =/= bad perk design, new players not being able to hit skill checks is not overcharges fault.
Sure but perks that only work against bad players are questionable design sooooo...
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@Callahan9116 said:
There should be environmental hazards and saves to make chases more interesting. Things like rolling a piano down some stairs, or the killer having a trap tile that if they throw a switch can get you. The maps are too stagnant, make areas and corridors open or close with switches, or have some items on a map that let you do access it more broadly. For example, your at gideon's, let there be a key card that opens shutters to new vault locations, or if the killer hits the shutter control box let the shutters close for like 5 seconds. There are so many things that can be done to make the maps better and more interactive.
Maybe in a small dose? Like the trap on nostromi where you can slow the killer? But I think it should have some setup and only slow the killer or stun him shortly... Otherwise that would be just too much...
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@NekoAndromeda said:
Since Onryo's rework now has her not be able to be stunned while demanifested, I feel like it only makes sense for Wraith to at least have it so that he just gets a normal stun duration while cloaked, but not be uncloaked in the process. There is no real reason for him to be punished harder for being in stealth, but Onryo is rewarded. Especially when it comes to Orange Glyph challenges, the extended stun duration is even more ridiculous. It would be a nice quality of life change for Wraith players, while not making him much stronger overall.
Imagine Wraith with +60% pallet break speed addons + uncloak after kick and just into survivors either they drop you break it instantly then hit them or they don't drop it and then you hit them... So not a good idea...
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3572743#Comment_3572743
I would let that fly, if DBD was still in its early days. But after 5 years people definitely know how the game works. This doesn't mean that players individually don't improve but overall nothing much changes in that regard. That's how I see it. Because not everyone keeps playing the game. Some players leave and some players come back / are lured into the fog.
To say that 2 years ago, we didn't understand the game enough to see, if perks were good or bad is outrageous. Just look for how long the second chance meta lasted. And when Mikaela was released with good ol' Circle of Balance everyone used that too. On the PTB we immediately saw that CoH was way too strong (healing was faster than the killer's hit cooldown). There are also perk and killer rankings from back then. And they changed gradually as the game changed not because they understood the game better.
Even competitive players go with the time and change their strategies. The one thing that might be comparable (the chase) was also impacted by many changes like 6.1.0's killer base kit buffs, map reworks, perk changes, killer buffs / nerfs and to a degree even survivor animations, if we look back far enough.
Dota 2 is 11 years old in 2016, 4-5 years later people are still bad compared to today, and before that you even Dota 1 which is broadly the same game, and you think just because dbd is 7years old now that the people already knew everything a few years back? I don't think so...
I think Woo is the exception because most people just thought of it as an perk to get to know maps and not for the solo benefit...
So do all those changes change anything about how people played tiles? How they played 50 50s? About check spots and what not? Because I don't think so...