Archol123
Archol123
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739243#Comment_3739243
that still doesn't answer why the killer player should get free losses every time he faces a strong team because the killer is literal D-tier worthless. Freddy doesn't have a single game-changing add-on to elevate his powers and all of his powers are plagued with drawbacks including -m/s for placing traps which contradict their functionality for hindered, an extremely telegraphed teleport with long channel time and an invisibility gimmick that does not work in any capacity. The oblivious effect in his dream world is also pointless with lullaby in most instances. As a result, he doesn't constitute as stealth killer or "The Nightmare" that he is suppose to be portraying. The average player is losing to a killer that has near dysfunctional power. No idea why you would be balancing around that.
I don't plan to, like I said I think he is the worst killer in the game and needs buff probably even a full rework... And a killer that is as weak as him and as easy to counter should be buffed and just because for some reason people have no clue how to play against him does not change that.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739115#Comment_3739115
the question is, why does it matter an average MMR survivor player on average dies to freddy? Why does his experience prioritize over the killer experience? A 9000 hour player that plays freddy vs 5000 hour survivor team gets steamrolled. The 9000 hour killer player is unlikely to get better at said killer because the killer has limited power-level potencial. Joe who is stuck at average MMR survivor can get better vs freddy. Your argument is saying that the killer experience should be deprioritized over the survivor experience.
The nurse who struggles to play Nurse can play more games to get better at said killer. these players in lower bracket are able to change their outcomes on their own. If they don't want to do that, than they can accept L's vs players that are better than them at said killer just like Joe who is not good at survivor should accept losses vs killer players better than him.
players can always get better, but you can't ask better players to play worse or get worse for poor balance.
Well I guess for the guy it is a numbers argument... There are many average players against whom he performs well, but few high level ones where he is terribly weak... But if that is the basis, why did we nerf Blight and Nurse again? They were not over performing...
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738813#Comment_3738813
I thought we were discussing whether billy is S tier or not.
How even, you asked for counterplay against Billy... Maybe in the beginning but then the topic changed...
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739127#Comment_3739127
Well, no. We need to realize the majority of players will always be average MMR, even if they played for thousands of hours. This is one of the reasons why BHVR keeps saying that prestiege level isn't a good indicator of skill level. We can't just say "let's ignore the majority of the playerbase, because they have skill issues". Their playing experiences are important too. And dismissing the majority of players as "having a rough time for whatever reason" is super dismissive, and not helpful to those players.
And Nurse has had plaid flannel for years, and she still underperforms the average MMR. Nurse could have basekit plaid flannel, and she would still underperform at average MMR. There is a lot more to Nurse than "getting hang of where the blink goes".
Well sure, that's how averages work... The issue stays, if you want to balance for average players sure but every buff or nerf always effects other groups differently... And buffs that only effect certain groups of players are rough... Ideally you would make it so that a killer has an easy entry level where people can use him decently and a very high skill ceiling so there is still always something to learn. The issue is just that most killers don't work that way Billy, Blight, Wesker, Nurse Huntress do I guess, but the vast majority of killers just does not have that kind of depth.
Well the point stays, Freddy has the worst tools in the game and it does not make much sense that people struggle against him. Or do you have a reasonable explanation that does not involve people having no clue what they are doing? Because Freddy has no right to have that high of a kill rate... He has nothing to work with.
Plaid flannel was one example... That was just to point the direction of how to possibly help those players.
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@SaltyNooty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739129#Comment_3739129
The only reasonable tunneling I'll accept with a bit of salt is when it endgame or when the killer doesn't have any death hooks survivors towards 1 or POSSIBLY 2 gens left, so the intention here isn't to COMPLETELY get rid of it; hence why my suggestion pushed it so it deactivates during EGC.
It just needs to be made MUCH harder
The problem with increasing the haste speed is that it doesn't really FIX the issue unless the survivor gets a (50% - 75%) Haste boost to actually create distance for the duration of their basekit BT.Depends on what the goal is... Do you want to make it impossible for the majority of the killers to catch up or just not worth the killers time to follow that survivor.
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@SaltyNooty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739088#Comment_3739088
Yeah, basically the gist of it is.
See, that'd be the only issue with it; intentionally forcing the killer to take chase, unfortunately, I've got nothing in back pocket to circumvent that.
A reasonable work around would be that the hindered stats last about a minute WHILE in chase and only in chase
- and after the killer leaves chase, it deactivates until the next time that survivor is hooked; but that creates the loophole in and of itself that all a Killer would have to do is take chase, suffer the status; LEAVE chase for a couple of seconds and then go right back to them.
TBH though, that would be a more optimal choice since it gives the survivor a chance to evade them for a time being.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739094#Comment_3739094
Bestie, I don't really see you suggesting anything; though, I will admit, I DID mention THAT particular way to abuse it. I don't have any counter-arguments the specific usage of said suggestion besides adding a time limit.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739093#Comment_3739093
Not gonna lie, I didn't know killers could avoid chase by looking down, not that it can be complained about. The entire point is to discourage tunneling, nothing more, nothing less.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739067#Comment_3739067
The only thing It'd do is WEED OUT the killers who have to Consistently tunnel to get kills. We can all agree that the tunneling rate is HIGHER than it's ever been before right, why not actually make a post to do something about it.
Not that I expect even the SLIGHTEST bit of it to be taken into consideration, IIRC the devs either made it implicitly or explicitly clear they won't fix any problems relating to slugging or tunneling, though I'm NOT sure which one.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739096#Comment_3739096
I'm….gonna need you to re-read what I just said because it seems like the point was skipped over your head.
I don't recall saying YOU said it, I referred to the phrase "The killers job is to kill….?"???I mean why not just increase the duration of the haste or the speed boost itseld, make it so the survivor completely loses collision for that duration. Or go even further turn them invisible without collision for that duration? The same as Vecna's artifact... Of course this needs to deactivate when all gens are done and under certain other conditions and so on, but at least this would prevent tunneling. Question is only do you want to get rid of it in any way shape or form or only make it harder? Get rid of it: invisible, make it harder: lose collision and more/longer haste.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739087#Comment_3739087
Freddy isn't the worst killer in the game, because he currently performs well at average MMR. For many DBD players, Freddy is a good killer, and performs well in the game's he is played in. Therefore, BHVR can't just give Freddy random buffs, because buffing Freddy for higher MMR levels would affect his performance at average MMR, and might cause him to overperform at average MMR level.
And BHVR can't just randomly buff Nurse because she underperforms at average MMR, because that might cause her to overperform at high MMR.
And that is the actual reason why it's important to evaluate killers across all the MMR levels. And that is the reason why only having one tier list, at the 6,000+ comp level, isn't useful.
Well with that reasoning everything becomes relative and every single question about killer strenght will always be answered by saying depends and that will result in endless specifications on the conditions under which killer x can be considered why...
Freddy is the worst killer in the game objectively because his power is a worse version of clown, that only works while survivors are asleep, that cannot be thrown in front of you to prevent survivors from reaching tiles, that only has a slowdown and no haste to tackle safer tiles and on top has a teleport with a big cooldown that becomes worse map traversal the longer the game goes because it cannot target finished gens. On top of that his addons are basically useless.
When we look at killer strenght we look at the tools they have at their hands, and for that we need to assume players know what they are doing, because otherwise the argument will always be "Well but at this mmr the killer performs well because survivors have no clue what they are doing so we cannot buff them" or "Well at this mmr the killer performs poorly because the killer player has no clue how to properly play the killer, so we cannot just nerf the killer". Sure you need to take into account the effects it has on different groups of players, however that does not mean you cannot still buff the killer and try to negate that effect on certain skill levels by making it more accessible.
Nobody does comp tier lists except comp players…not Otzdarva, not Hens, not Ohtofu or god knows who, the vast majority of players go for a good player that know the killer very well, because that is the killers objective potential strenght when played against the people you get matched against in pub games. You don't need tierlist for all that other stuff... A. You don't need a comp tierlist because bhvr does not care about comp, so they need to adjust their rules accordingly anyway. B. Buffing or nerfing should be done based on objective strenght and outliers on certain mmr levels should be countered by qol changes... The reason for this is when a killer under or over performs VS weaker players that is just a skill issue on both sides, because they simply don't know what they are doing. However instead of not buffing or nerfing the killer we are going to help them get the tools to do better. Bad players on nurse have a rough time getting the hang of where the blink goes, so they get a marker. Bad players on huntress struggle to line up shots so we give them a cross hair, bad survivor players struggle against Freddy because he has a lullyby and a weird dreamworld and what do those clocks even do, so we need to make the information about the killer more accessible so they can have the tools at their hands to deal with him. It is really not that hard... Freddy is the worst killer in the game and if you struggle against him that is fully on you... That is something you can improve on fairly easily because of how weak he is, however that is not a reason to not buff him because people seem to be having a rough time against him for whatever reason.
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@SaltyNooty said:
Y'know, it's been a while since I made a discussion post and I'm generally surprised that this HASN'T be suggested, or perhaps, it has and was simply shoved to the darkness like many other posts have; but here's my take to fix the up-tick in the tunneling situation.
We used the hindered status that's mainly there to affect survivors of killers.
What I mean by this is, let's say that a survivor gets unhooked either by themselves or by others and the killer immediately 180s and begins to hound after them, the moment the killer enters chase with the survivor being tunneled, they're hit with a 25% hindered status for the duration of the chase.
They won't gain bloodlust and will continue to hold the 25% hindered status till they look for another survivor; essentially forcing the chase to become an extremely long-winded loop around the map if the killer chooses to HARD commit to attempting to tunnel out this survivor for whatever reason they could possibly have.
- To further discourage this, after the killer leaves chase; the effect will persist for about 3 seconds.- Additionally, the ability will remain active as long as the survivor is within 36 meters of the killers range.
- Additionally, if the survivor becomes fully healed by any means with a perk; it deactivates.
To discourage SWFS from abusing this ability, this particular base-kit ability persists for about 8 seconds after getting off hook; AND taking a protection hit/committing conscious actions like doing gens, healing, unhooking, unlocking, opening; will cancel the effects immediately.
This can (Debatably) turn off during endgame just so killers have a chance at getting a kill if it turns out to be a situation where they DO tunnel a surv off the hook during EG, which is the only valid time to me.
The entire POINT of this is to discourage tunneling, not for it to be abused;- Essentially, this covers attempting to work around the system by leaving chase and then immediately 180'd around to chase the survivor, because people would do that IMMEDIATELY. (Mostly by forcing the killer to leave the survivor COMPLETELY for the effect to go away, not proxy camping them.)
- This also covers SWFS trying to take advantage of this because unless they INTENTIONALLY take chase while someone else is being chased; there is absolutely nothing they can do to abuse it. (Though, I'm certain they'll find a way to do it.)
Now, the alternative to this is that we dock their BP. (Because let's be real, Killers will most certainly object to the fact that tunneling would hold no value; which is the POINT and PURPOSE, to discourage killers from resorting to tunneling.)
Honest thoughts on this? I think it's something that could work and get tweaked properly.
Ok… So let me get this right, the window to activate the feature is 8 seconds, but if it activates during this 8 seconds it stays until chase is broken? So what exactly keeps a survivor from chasing after you and forcing chase onto you?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739022#Comment_3739022
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4SR71I2ZF4YL/image.png
The tier list for the average MMR would look something like this. It would be how well each killer does when the average player uses them.
Different killers have different performance levels across the MMR levels. I've said this multiple times, and BHVR has said this multiple times. It's true. When people talk about game balance, they should be talking about how powerful each killer is AT THEIR SKILL LEVEL, because those are opponents they should be matched with.
Yes, the average MMR tier list should have Skull Merchant way up in S-tier, because at that skill level she is overperforming. And it should have Nurse below average tier, because at that skill level she is underperforming.
Ok, so if the tierlist is entirely based on the killrates, what is its purpose? We don't need to make such a tierlist if this is its basis and it is obviously not something we can use for balancing, because in that case Nurse needs buffs… The only thing we could do is think about why this is the case and how to possibly change it in a way that does not make killers stronger or weaker, and that is not really our job as the player base. We would also need to have two seperate lists for console and pc to take into account the different problems the plattform has for playing the killer.
In other words, if the tierlist is the killrates that behaviour obviously has access to then we as the community don't really need to do anything nor can we do anything, because then it is just a fact that is not really possible to argue about the only thing we can do is think of changes that dont change killers power level but only their accessability… For example give Nurse plaid flannel as an ingame option to turn on or off, same for huntress crosshair or stuff like that. But taking this for balancing would make it so balancing is all over the place. Because everybody knows who the top 3-4 killers are, their order might be up for debate but probably 99% of people know it is and has always been Nurse Blight and Spirit. So based on this, Freddy needs a nerf, because he is above the goal of 60 and nurse needs a buff because she under performs… Which is utterly ridiculous, Freddy is the worst killer in the game. So once again, what are we going to do with this information? Freddy is already a really simple killer, there is not much to know about him, I don't know how to dumb him down even more so people dont feed him kills for whatever reason…
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@Coffeecrashing said:
At the very least, there should be 3 separate tier lists: 1 for overall, 1 for the top 5% of MMR, and 1 for the literal 6000+ hour comp players.
Having only one tier list isn’t very useful, and very often gets misused. For example, an average MMR survivor isn’t really playing against S-tier Nurses, because Nurse isn’t S-tier at average MMR. It would be much more helpful if each player could just use a tier list that was personally relevant to them, instead of using a comp tier list that involves 0.0001% of the total players.
Not really… Because A. a comp tierlist is really not relevant because nobody plays in comp. B. What exactly are we going to do with top 5% and overall… Are you assuming average skill for overall and for top 5% knowing everything, basically playing him like a comp player just not in comp setting? What are you even getting out of this? Because lets for example take Wesker, what techs can an average Wesker player hit? What counterplay can the average survivor consistantly do against wesker? All of that is just way too unspecified… I can agree on two tier lists, one for comp with comp rules and everything, that would basically not really be relevant and a second one for normal pub games.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738267#Comment_3738267
Being able to do it on hex totems would be busted yeah...
Though being able to do it to dulls probably wouldn't be though... it's probably harder for a killer to find dull totems than survivors, and there is obviously way more pressure to manage time on killer than survivor...
So unless someone hard learns all of the spawn locations of totems and runs about setting them, being able to break dulls and boon totems for Pentimento.
Let's face it, if a killer can do that, they're probably in a tier of play where they're up against survivors who can do the same.
If it creates a problem, Shattered Hope could make a unique global sound to warn a Totem was broken... that'd probably work.
... though I'm more riffing really than making a serious suggestion
I don't really think there is a need to make it work on dull totems though? All it does is create issues or help you get to pentimento easier.
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@kirua said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738859#Comment_3738859
Well that's not much an issue, i mean you only read the last messages when your game is finished and you can just ignore it
You misunderstood... I want the crying and the insults :D It is quite funny how creative people can get when insulting you ^^
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738848#Comment_3738848
Correct, that's always been my understanding
For most content creators that is not the case as they are quite clear about the criteria they base their tier list on, and given that a subjective tierlist on how good people are with the killer would be quite useless that leaves only the possibility that those average people do the same thing…
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Yeah no that idea is terrible… The downside of holding the hatchet is that you get slowed down… That is enough, there is no need for some annoying mechanic.
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@VomitMommy said:
Imagine leaving the game just to see prepared wall of insults :D
Honestly that sounds really funny ^^
Imagine you just a text everytime you down someone because they got stuck or just misplayed and then they complain to you about it :D:D Sounds great.
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What else could you possibly base it on? If not the objective power of a killer what else could it be based on and what would its value be in that case?
Otz for example explains before every one of his tier list videos what the criteria are and what exactly he ranks for. So for him it was the ability to win aka 3 or 4k, with certain restrictions when it comes to higher rarity addons and such. How much skill the killer takes or how good you need to be to make the killer be that good is not a criteria hower.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738732#Comment_3738732
Comp players also do things to blight and spirit and nurse, does that make those killers not S tier? No way. Even if you don't think billy is stronger than blight or spirit he's way stronger than any A tier killer like artist or chucky by a mile.
What does this have to do with anything? You asked for things to do against Billy in chase... I said go watch those guys, they know what to do against Billy in chase and now you tell me it is not valid because they are comp players and also do stuff against other strong killers??
My man if your logic is that you cannot do those things they are doing because you don't play comp level, sure fair enough, you don't have 10k hours to spare or whatever other valid reason... But that is by definition a skill issue... If you cannot be asked to learn and practise counterplay for specific killers then you cannot complain about there not being counterplay... Because you are ignoring the existing things because you don't want to learn those things because they are too hard or too time consuming or whatever... Come on man that is not reasonable... (it is reasonable to not want to spend the time to learn those things, but it is then not reasonable to complain about missing counterplay.)
This was not about the strenght of the killer but about the things you can do against him.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738775#Comment_3738775
Neither does it mean that Otzdarvas opinion is the right opinion.
The point is more about the reasons for the opinion, generally speaking. When Otzdarva presents his opinions he usually gives the reasons for why he thinks it is problematic. While just saying person x said this so it is that way, means nothing. However saying "Otzdarva said this because..." is way more valid, because know you are not just repeating an opinion but you use the reasons for that opinion.
Let's make this into a more practical example: "Scott Jund said this change to Sabo speed is stupid because it allows you to take a hit, Sabo the hook and still run away before the killer can recover from his attack cooldown (at least with Alex's toolbox and certain addons maybe with other toolboxes maybe even without addons and so on and so forth) ". And that is why a lot of people think this change was bad.
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@Souplet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738761#Comment_3738761
Thats what we complain about
You cant trade if someone sabo in front of you, they can get hit>sabo>get away during your recovery time
And funny thing is, i met a survivor yesterday that didnt even knew sabo was buffed and replied "you couldnt down me because im good at the game", actually hillarious
Well there is this certain point people will reach where their understanding of the game is so limited that they confuse skill with certain limitations the other side has xD
Yeah I mean I agreed with that thing being problematic from the beginning... The only good thing is I might finally get that stupid tome quest done where I need to Sabo a hook while the killer is 10 m away from me xD
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738761#Comment_3738761
You can definitely do it with Alex and add-ons. It's just pathetic.
I don't think you can do it with other toolboxes, at least not this way. Maybe with resilience? I haven't test this one.
It should definitely not be possible to fully avoid the trade when you do it as blatant as that... I don't mind it being faster, but I do mind such brainless actions where the killer either has stbfl or he just cannot win in this situation, best thing is to just drop and hope the survivor does not wiggle free from that... Such an unnecessary change... Removed one way for brainless saves by getting rid of background players 200% ms and then introduced this... There is no way they play tested this and did not see that this is problematic.
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@VomitMommy said:
I had two groups try it and it's definitely very annoying. Unlucky for them one was when I played Oni and second Twins...
When I see survivors around me trying to Sabo, I just immediately drop the survivor and play game "Who wants to bleed out"...
They can't stop me, if they are on ground.
Fact that you can bodyblock, Sabo and leave is just silly.
I heard someone say that only with Alex' toolbox you can Sabo and get away without getting downed after taking a hit... I don't know for sure... I guess with addons it is possible on the other toolboxes as well?
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Why not both things? The knight so many little qol buffs because he just feels so tedious to play...
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738565#Comment_3738565
They've tried this numerous times to give the 'secondary objective' that people (killers) are clamoring for.
But that alternative can't be beneficial to survivors, we tried that with boons.
It can't involve interacting with the killer, apparently, because bu+ftp, BP+FB, and now sabo.
The only thing that hasn't been complained about in this regard is the invocation, which, even after being buffed, is still a killer perk.
At this point, 'secondary objective' is just code for 'they need more gens'.
The issue is not the secondary objective but it's strenght... Circle of healing was an issue because it allowed for unlimited 1 person resets at quite the fast speed.
Ftp buckle up was problematic because if it worked there was nothing you could do because they swoop in during your cooldown...
Secondary objective means I as the survivor want to do something meaningful besides gens... Totems for example could become more relevant or maybe prepare something for the team that is not a boom, but a nice little bonus.
As with everything it is about the balance, circle of healing is still OK, it is just not busted...
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738552#Comment_3738552
Considering @Aven_Fallen has literally played against Otz, I HIGHLY doubt they're low mmr
Do you know how the soft cap works? I once had a game against Otzs Doctor and my survivor is dogwater in comparison... The mmr system is all over the place so this while high mmr low mmr stuff is meaningless.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738272#Comment_3738272
But the problem is, if the Billy can see you around any loop this doesn't work at all if the billy has half a brain. If your on a loop he cannot see around its a 50/50 at best, some billies will know how to tilt this even more in their favour. And even if you dodge or crouch it, you'll take an m1 in the back before making it to the pallet because of the recovery time. THe reason it doesn't matter if you miss is because you'll either get m1'd or he'll just take another shot at chainsawing you if he miss's, if he plays right the recover is so minimal you can't do anything about it.
In comp Billy is so strong that he's the only killer in the game who doesn't need to run corrupt which is insane. If you watch anyone like xeno for example play billy in comp its a complete blood bath, there's no chance of escaping.
Thats not at all how it is, because even if he sees you he does not know what you will do because you don't move that early... Just watch what comp players do against him, it is really not as bad as you are making it out to be... Even in comp Billy is nowhere near a guaranteed win for the killer.
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@Robowastaken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738354#Comment_3738354
No way Sherlock! Of course i tried, but soon as he picks it back up there is no way he cant catches me cuz he is faster
Then you waited too long Sherlock… You need to not drop it on the last loop you can make but 1 or maybe 2 before that already… He only gains 60cm/s on you, so as long as you have a few m of distance to him you will make it around again and can drop the pallet… It is really not that hard. Just don't be greedy.
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@Souplet said:
I think the joke has lasted long enough, don't you ?
Yeah, I mean it was fairly obvious just by doing the math, no clue why they thought this was a good idea…
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I think even if they want to do it (it would be a hell of work to do that), they would not even be able to. The person you are talking to can live in a completely different country so their laws will be different. E.g. I am pretty sure that in my country the person who got insulted or threatened needs to go to the authorities, a third party would not be able to do so.
The issue is that stuff over the internet can get enforced in every country where the result of the action happens… So let me give you an example… You sit in England, I sit in Germany and the three other people in chat sit in Greece, the US and Spain or something. If I insult you guys now it technically happens in all 5 countries and can therefore get enforced in all of them.
It is kind of a special thing in international criminal law…
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@Rythoriak said:
I think many of us can agree that this game has one of the most toxic communities in gaming. Only Dota has given me more toxicity than this game in my 30+ years of gaming. I am generally curious if Behavior reports people who make real life death threats, or telling people to kill themselves irl, etc to the proper authorities to try to get some real consequences. I know some people just say get thicker skin or it's part of online gaming, but a line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere otherwise or things will continue to push worse and worse.
Ok… So what would reporting such things to the authorities do? It is not like they are criminal offenses? Telling someone to kill themselves is neither an insult nor a threat and a death threat is only illegal if the average victim would take it seriously? And to take something serious a random person on the internet says, that does not know anything about you is very unrealistic… Therefore I don't really see how these things could have consequences in that way?
Besides that I don't really think DBD has such a toxic community. The issue is just that the game does not have a mute function for players in chat for whatever reason… Would help a lot to not have to deal with peoples nonsense… Especially because the filter is so garbage it would have been much better to not have a filter but a mute function for every player in chat.
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@Robowastaken said:
This skill is so powerfull on most pallet loops and you can do nothing about it if you dont have the %7 haste thing equiped . This needs a nerf
Have you tried dropping it early? That way you can just re drop it after you a made loop around the tile…
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@FixSoloQASAP said:
People brought up some of the worst excuses in gaming history such as "We need to think about new players!!" → No. We shouldn't be balancing around new players. New killers and survivors have no clue how the game works, so the balance there is irrelevant. SBMM is already in place which deals with the smurf problem accordingly unless they play survivor or every killer and deliberately reduce their escape/sacrifical count. Otherwise, new players will be put with other new players eventually, and as they gradually learn new skills and tactics, their SBMM will go up.
BHVR is afraid to make changes because of the backlash. Vecna is proof of that. People are thinking they are selling this DLC by making him strong then nerf him after sales runs dry. What insane individual do you have to be to think that? Vecna was weak in PTB, people asked for buffs, people say Vecna is too strong, BHVR decide to nerf it and now you ask for a refund? Either you need to seek help or you're just a troll and want to add fuel to the fire.
There is a difference between balancing the game around complete new players and caring about them. The new player experience is an important part when it comes to maintaining a constant flow of newer players to balance for those people who stop playing. When people say "we need to stink about new players" this means nothing else than we need to take into account how certain things put them in a way worse spot than more seasoned players. For example certain game mechanics being too tough on them, for example old ruin was a perfect example for that, new players don't hit great skill checks, therefore gens took forever. This mainly means that there need to be more tutorials and information in the game, not outside of it so new players can have an easier start into the game, without being completely overloaded with information after watching Otzdarvas guide of everything that took 89h to watch… Nothing against Otz, but the point is you need easy access and small doses of information for new players. For example after finishing a game against killer X there should a button somewhere that says "Learn more about this killer" and when you click on it you go to the tutoria section where for example Otzdarva or whoever explains in a short video what there is to know about that killer, the do's and don't s and all those things. This is way more comfortable than having to find a video on the topic when you perhaps don't even know for what to look…
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738221#Comment_3738221
What's the effective counterplay against new billy? I don't see much other than dropping every pallet instantly.
Once again i'd agree with you if this was old billy, but new billy is so much easier because he's wayu more forgiving, it doesn't matter if you miss multiple chainsaws anymore.
Also if you buff a killers strength, it means youve removed counterplay or made it more difficult to counter the killer.
Well you basically decide to go close or wide towards the loop, making an assumption whether or not the killer will curve further out or close towards the loop. Depending on whether or not he has he is in overdrive you need to take that into account because he cannot curve as close to the loop because of the increased speed. In addition to that you can crouch his saw so you don't get clipped by its edges. It really is the same as it always has been. It just got another layer because his overdrive is not always on it means you need to take that into account as well and adapt it into what you do. You can watch some comp footage of how they play against him or maybe the showcase Hens did some time ago when the increased curve window was rather new.
What do you mean by it doesn't matter if you miss saws? You go into cooldown, the survive can reposition... You want overheat back or what?
Not it actually does not mean that... If you buff a killer it can also just make his power more versatile without necessarily removing counterplay. Just because the power can work at different tiles now does not mean it cannot be countered the same way as before.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738224#Comment_3738224
I’m like the #1 advocate for “Spirit is still a strong killer”. I’ve mained her since her release back in 2018 and I’ve been P100 with her for a year. She’s my golden child for killers, I love her.
But she’s nowhere near as stupid as she once was. Her old busted add-ons (MDR, Prayer Beads, green speed and duration, purple amulet), no collision while phasing, no directional audio are a thing of the past and make her more counterable. However you can use directional audio to your advantage at most loops and it doesn’t matter if they can hear you because you’re nearly double their movement speed and the collision doesn’t matter to good Spirit players and is actually a buff because she can’t be body blocked by aggressive survivors trying to use their endurance perks.
But she is cucked by god pallets and certain windows while Nurse just doesn’t care. Plus two story maps, Nurse is just a better option because it takes Spirit forever to traverse something like Midwich while Nurse can be wherever she wants. Not to mention Eyrie makes no footsteps so playing Spirit is hell on that map. Nurse is usually always gonna outperform Spirit. Nurse will outperform anyone on any given day.
Between Spirit and Blight honestly they’re pretty equal. Spirit can actually recharge her power quicker than Blight with certain add-ons, she suffer no fatigue or cooldown after an attack, and she has less counterplay. Both have insane chase powers. But I would still give a slight edge to Blight because of his map traversal and shorter base cooldown.
Now with Billy I just don’t see how he’s better than Blight or Spirit. He’s so much better now but his chase power isn’t as strong, he’s more counterable, he’s cucked by more maps, and he’s way hard to pick up and play. Billy is a great killer but not on Spirit or Blight levels.
Spirit is one of those killers that will make good survivors look average and average survivors look terrible.
I mean there are like 2 pallets she needs to break on the average map and maybe 1-2 windows she struggles a bit at, but I think that is just way too little to be really relevant for her strenght.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738236#Comment_3738236
Wondering how much of a problem Shattered Hope would be if it just allowed you to break dull/hex totems as well tbh.
The obvious synergy is Pentimento, but the killer has to go out and find the totems, no different to the survivors having to find them, and you as killer of course don't have any perks to help you find the dull totems... other than taking a bunch of hexes and break them yourself to get Pentimento.
Only build that might be an issue is Pentimento/Plaything/Two Can Play… and rushing for Pentimento lock.... which might work if survivors don't realise what you're doing.
Fun to think about though.
That would be kind of busted on high mobility killers and when the survivors don't realise it... But I think the base mechanic should be limited to boons for obvious reasons.
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@UndeddJester said:
Next PTB, what 3 perks you got for either side to get buffed?
Survivor:
- Better Than New (Outclassed in every way)
- Poised (Trigger condition for the effect is basically useless)
- Blood Pact (Cheryl in General tbh, but this perk is just a more restricted version of Power of Two... which is also bad)
Killer:
- Source Hook: Hangman's Trick (Nowhere near enough value)
- Leverage (Game is over by the time it does anything)
- Shattered Hope (for the love of God Shattered Hope...)
What are you putting as your front runners?
Shattered Hope should have been basekit from the beginning, so survivors cannot mindlessly bless totems... It could have the addition that survivors can rebuild the totem with another 20 sec or so delay.
I don't even know where to start, there are dozens of perks on each side that do nothing :(
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@SoGo said:
Killer: The Trapper
Add-on:
Tar Bottle (Rare)Painting Set (Rare)Old effect: Makes the traps darker
New effect: Changes the colour and texture of traps based on the enviroment around them (mostly the floor)
That should just be a basekit feature.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737733#Comment_3737733
Ever since the removal of hug tech and his add-ons being reworked, Blight isn’t as stupidly oppressive as he used to be and is closer in strength with Spirit and Billy than he is Nurse.
Nurse is truly the only S tier killer. Sure you could consider Spirit and Blight S tier but they aren’t as busted as they used to be and their power/add-ons have been changed over the years. Nurse has been nerfed as well but she still fundamental breaks the game than Spirit and Blight can’t do. Blight and Spirit are still very strong and in a tier of their own because they are head and shoulders above other A tier killers but not Nurse level.
Billy on the other hand is a strong high A tier killer but I don’t believe he is as strong or stronger than Blight or Spirit.I guess. I would say that a good Spirt gets held by a few pallets on each map, and everything else is just a hit if she players properly. Whereas you can loop a Billy and possibly a Blight now on most loops and get away without that much of a guarantee. People really underestimate Spirit a lot. A good spirit will demolish you and make it look super simple. Because in the end it does not matter that you can hear her, because she moves so fast.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738180#Comment_3738180
The charge speed is reduced because in order to have the current speed billy has now, he used to have to run engravings addons which would significantly increase the charge speed and was a huge detriment. Now he gets base charge speed with engraving like effects in his base kit, excluding all the overdrive buffs which exist. 0.125s matters alot when your moving at 13 metres per second during overdrive and when your playing against a killer who the counterplay is being able to make it to the next pallet or around a corner in time.
You're right the movement speed whilst charging is the same, that was meant to be the movemetn speed during the cooldown is now faster.
10% speed increase is incredibly useful basekit alone, excluding the crazy overdrive effects or anything the iri engraving does. There's a reason double speed blight was and still is incredibly powerful, speed matters alot.
An increase to the curving window once again even only 0.25 seconds is really really huge. There's a reason adren vile on blight went from being the worst addon to one of the best once the turning restriction was reduced slightly.
Curving is alot more powerful and easy now than it used to be because of all of the stat buffs i just mentioned. You move faster, charge faster, curve for longer, have much more generous collision and have a much smaller penalty for missing or bumping.
You can't say that his map mobility is the same it used to be. Its much better now. Moves faster, has overdrive, and even if as you say overheat didn't mean much most of the time, that was because people didn't rev as much as they used to. It still somewhat limited your ability to hold m2 like you can now.
Billy used to be C tier yes, but you ask any streamer or comp player what they think of billy and they'll tell you he's S tier. Infact alot of players think he's number 2 right now over spirit and blight.
The point is all these buffs which you've wiped away as "minor" or they don't matter that much matter so much more than you think. No one said that the hit speed recover buffs killers got a while back were "minor", they were huge. And billy got a huge number of those buffs which have compiled to make him incredibly strong.
You forgot about going close or going wide when trying to avoid a curve, making it around the corner is not that easy.
Ofc it is useful, but that alone does not suddenly turn him into a beast, you still need the overdrive to curve most things, there is a reason people ran double engravings and it is because it was basically required to curve most tiles... So 10% is not enough on its own to do that.
It offers the possibility to curve more tiles, sure, but his usual counterplay still applies, all it does is give Billy more options.
Curving is mostly about control, you need to have the skill to steer the right amount during the initial curve window, while all that stuff helps it does not suddenly become easy. There is a reason why Billy is the hardest killer in the game and the effort that goes into learning how to properly curve tiles is enormous.
His map mobility is a bit better, but I don't think that part matters too much... His mobility is still hindered by the same stuff as before, just as bit less because of the collision improvement.
I don't think the comp players put him in S tier... I'd argue they still think Blight and Spirit are better because crouch tech exists, without that maybe. He is really strong now sure, but he still has counterplay and you seem to forget the effort that goes into mastering him... It is only fair that the opposing side needs to put in is equal to the effort the killer player has to put in and if you argue a master Billy is too strong then you can only compare that to a master survivor player. Everything else is not a fair comparison... And before the changes nobody played him because he was the hardest killer to player and really weak at the same time... It is great to have more Billy's again :) his counterplay is still the same as before and it is fun, it is just that you won't get away as easy anymore, you are not as heavily favored as before.
Those buffs matter to his strenght, but they don't matter to his counterplay, because it is still available, working and effective if you do it right. You just cannot be as sloppy as before and get away and the Billy does not need superhuman precision anymore to have a chance to get a saw. I think that's fine.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738207#Comment_3738207
It's quite easy for a billy to predict or play around crouching, plus even if someone crouches you it doesn't matter that much because the cooldown is super negligable. Crouching is the only chance you have at a loop to not get hit everytime pretty much but it's not exactly reliable. Crouching a blight or a demo is alot more punishing for the killer.
I meant the shred... The post I quoted didn't even mention Billy... But crouching Billy also does a lot, he still has 2.5 seconds of cooldown after that, so as survivor you will most likely make it back to the pallet again. And apparently crouching Bubba is a also a thing and can make him hit a pallet instead...
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738167#Comment_3738167
Mostly because of his chase potential. He can shred pallets akin to a bubba but having a ranged like dash attack is really good in alot of situations at getting hits other killers could only dream of, and it has a really big hitbox so its difficult to dodge or react to. However i'm not totally familliar with buffed bubba just assumed he'd be around here.
Might be true if crouch tech was not a thing... Because of this his hitbox is really small.
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@Withered8 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738154#Comment_3738154
I think your assuming that old billy is the same as new billy, they aren't remotely close. What your describing is old billy who if you knew what he could flick he was not strong in chase, he was way slower, way longer charging time, easier to read and had a massive limitation on his power usage.
New billy has:
-A shorter charging speed
-Walks way faster when charging
-Moves way quicker
-Can curve corners at over 180 degrees now
-Can go straight for half a second and then curve 90 degrees
-Can curve 90 degrees one way and then 90 back the other way to go around tight bends and obstacles
-Way more generous curving and easier to use curving, flicking as billly used to be really hard, now its really easy
-Has overdrive which is up about half of the time and moves faster than a nurse blink and has an even faster charge time
-Has a wayyyy shorter cooldown after ending a chainsaw sprint
-Has a minimal penalty for bumping now and can move whilst bumped
-Also has no limitation on his map mobiliy or his power usageThese things add up because it means its extremely difficult to survive in a chase. You can't play any loops because he can hit you around anything. Predropping is inneffective because of his break speed. He can also hit you around dropped pallets similar to a blight. Hiding behind walls or obstacles is much less effective because its infinitely easier for him to simply curve around them now or hold his rev until he gets overcharge. In overcharge as well you have to instantl drop every pallet and hope he doesn't hit you around it or on the way to the next one or you're dead.
So what's billys actual weakness now? He takes slightly longer than the other S tiers hit you. BUT when he does hit you its an instadown so.
You can't chain loops or simply loop a chucky he'll hit you anywhere unless you have an insane god pallet infront of you or something, its like trying to loop a blight you'll just get hit around everything. Except that its way harder for chucky to miss. Artist does have to take a bit of time to zone you and catchup again to kill you which means on average you'll probably have quicker chases as chucky than artist against good survivors.
Walks faster when he is charging? Do you mean his movements peed while revving his saw? Because as far as I know that did not get touched at all, if it did I'd be glad to see the source.
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@BasementKing said:
This is a serious problem and it needs a solution. Yesterday, my friend and I were playing against Rin. We lost, and she slugged us, the last two survivors, stomped on us, and nodded her head for no reason. We hadn't shown any toxicity. But the point is that we couldn't do anything, just slowly bleed out and watch the killer's gloating. The person just wasted as much of our time as possible. Why, instead of starting a new match, do I have to watch some jerk boost their ego in a video game? Maybe I'm taking it too personally, but it's so annoying. I wish the developers would add an option to bleed out after fully recovering the scale. I understand that many killers play the slugging strategy to secure a 4K, but there are people who abuse this and hold players hostage. Alternatively, they could add a voting system for survivors to surrender, because no one wants to waste their time like this.
I don't really think it is an issue, because the game ends after a maximum of 4 minutes or so when you bled out, it is not like he can hold you hostage forever by slugging you. And while he is doing all that nobody forces you to watch, just do something else, talk to your buddy, tab out do anything other than staring on the screen while he bms you…
On a side note sure a surrender option would be nice. However you are only wasting time if you don't do anything else other than watching the guy bm you xD Read a book or something ^^ Or Manga, if that is more your cup of tea, watch some videos do anything else and you will soon see how little this actually matters.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
Tier lists are pointless. It all depends on who is playing the Killer.
Not really, such lists usually just assume max potential on the killer. So maximum skill ceiling reached.
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@Laendra said:
I would like to see a hard skill check required to successfully disarm a trap without injuring yourself. Then change the add-on Bloody Coil to change the location and/or direction of the skill check in a random manner to make it even harder to not be injured (or remove the skill-check altogether). Right now it is too quick and easy for a survivor to disarm a trap, and many matches sounds like the cacophony of the cicadas with the number of traps being disarmed in rapid succession.
Would basically not mean a threat to more experienced players, but would totally stomp newer players, therefore not a good idea.
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Die of cringe: after t-bagging 10 times while being up to 10m away from the killer you can press the action key to go into the dying state immediately.
Discombobulated : you need to hit survivors 4 times until they go into the dying state but each time they get hit their movement gets reversed (so basically forward becomes s, backwards becomes w and so on).
Diva: press the action to sing one of x random songs, it is heard within a radius of x m. (could have a minor effect, but the goal is the meme...)
Eat sh**: You throw your item at the killer while in clear line of side and at most 12 m away, the item breaks and the killer is stunned for 2 seconds. Has a cooldown of 2 min. In case of several stuns within short time the stun duration is reduced for the 2nd one to 1 sec, an additional 3rd stun enrages the killer and he gets 10% haste until any survivor loses a healths tate (not self induced, eg. Plot twist or die of cringe).
Fair play: Every time you hook a player that has not been hooked by the last hook action the generator with the most progress loses some of it. It starts of with 5% but gets an additional 5% for every hook that follows that is not achieved by hooking the same player as you did before. You get an indicator to keep track of you can hook to gain the increased Gen regression event. (So the goal is to give players an incentive to not tunnel but spread hooks evenly. It probably needs a max. % it can Regress so you don't end up with 40+% on the last few hooks, but I think it is not really doing too much until like 4 hooks in and it would lose it's additional regression if you tunnel once and start of at 5 % again.)
It is not my day: The killer makes the angry Huntress sound when she gets stunned when picking up a survivor, when hooking a survivor, when getting stunned or when kicking a generator or pallet. (I find it the funniest stun sound and it would be hilarious to have that thing more frequently ^^)
Rest in peace: Destroying a totem puts the bones to rest, you gain a stackable 3% buff towards healing, Gen speed, speed of opening gates or doing totems and chests. The animation gets changed and you burry the bones and put flowers in top of it.
Re-roll: You close an opened chest, it creates a loud noise notification and you can open it again and find a new item, it cannot be the same item that was in the chest before.
I would love the Idea of more meme perks with silly effects. Because other than nic cages perks we don't have too many of them.
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@wadaphauk said:
myers needs it the most tbh he needs a full on rework everything Michael does other characters can do 100x better
I don't think so. He has his strenght.. I think all he needs is basekit buffs, quality of life and a full addon rework. There are scenarios where he is stronger than for example Ghostface... Let's say someone is on the hook, you stay close by with 3 ready and you down the guy that goes for the unhook... That game is basically done... The guy on hook will most likely die on hook and the downed guy needs to crawl really far away so he can be picked up. Sure Ghostface can reach a similar result, but that needs a bit more work.
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@yogi42 said:
Sparked up a dbd addiction been playing non stop for a month at least
Been pretty much doing 50/50 killer and suv and i think a few things need to be looked at
First off where are hag players? Havent vsed a single one?
I found out you can wipe her traps away now? If so maybe they should increase her movement speed cause thats really all shes got
And also anti tunnel needs a rework
I dont tunnel as a killer its boring for both sides
However why is someone able to flashlight save, blind me after pallet stuns after around 30 seconds of chase and then decisive strike me when i finally down them
I didnt tunnel them yet they go after me while i chase someone else yet im being stunned by an anti tunnel perk
Same goes for unhooking...il go after the unhooker just to have the unhooked body block me to take the hit and then say i was tunnelling????
I might as well tunnel as this point? I dont mind the fact there are anti tunnel mechanics in the game but they need a looked at
Hag is super boring to face, especially in soloq so it is fine that nobody plays her... Her wiping is not a big deal because just triggering them and running away is fast we anyway. So good players won't do the time consuming action anyway.
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Would it not just be old shelter woods with a well instead of a big tree in the middle? Why does that need its own map? Just put a well on one of the mcmilla maps and call it a day.
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@The_Voicesss said:
As an Executioner main I think the basement of the map having so many drops, and stairs is unfair for survivors. The punishment of the dammed becomes useless because it can't go up or down.
You should not go down there anyway…there are only 2 hooks so survivor can create a space where they cannot get hooked... The map needs a lot of work to not be horrid.
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@UndeddJester said:
- Trapper's basekit trap carry limit increased by 1.
- When opening a locker with an available trap slot, Trapper will grab a trap out of locker. The furthest trap from Trapper will despawn the furthest unset trap/furthest set trap from Trapper. This ability then goes on cooldown for 30s.
- While setting a trap, Trapper can spend an additional 1 second setting the trap to rig the trap.
- Setting a trap within 8m of another trap cannot be Rigged and will disable the Rigged effect of any already Rigged trap in range.
- Rigged traps will injure a survivor when the trap is disabled.
Trapper is still 1 of my favourite DBD characters; his trap movement speed and trap spawn buffs were both great changes, and his add-ons are great to support a lot of interesting builds and different playstyles...
Could we do more? Yes, buffing him further is possible... Sadly his power is a fundamental mismatch to the fast paced nature of modern DBD, and he'll always be lagging behind... which tends to mean when playing him Survivors get brazen enough to try to bully you. It is what it is, and I still enjoy him, but I'd love to see him buffed...
HOWEVER... we have to be realistic and recognise that in order to make him strong we'd have to make him incredibly obnoxious to face. My changes above doesn't make Trapper obnoxious, gives him some tools to aid his setup, and defend his traps much better.
Trappers sack basekit I still maintain makes basement Trapper plain dumb, and basement Trapper is already insanely strong (and the one place Trapper is the GOAT). No doubt, people will ask for Trapper's Sack, and I always push hard against it.... Mostly cause what exactly are survivors supposed to do here?:
https://youtu.be/3AZ0uAKGK5c?si=zWwWmq19ZFahwj6q
This is undeniably strong... but nuckearvtarpp8ng basement is but not what makes Trapper fun and rewarding to play. I will always push roaming Trapper buffs over basement Trapper buffs.
Sounds good, I would add a bit of camouflage and maybe give him the ability to remove a trap from distance, basically by looking at it and pressing a key and holding it for like a second so you don't do it on accident. So you have some control over which trap despawns, other than that it is already a good idea.