Archol123
Archol123
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@solidestcross63 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740340#Comment_3740340
I don't and will never understand why people are so against atleast trying out change yes it removes old counterplay but it would make room for new counterplay and new more exciting powers.
Side note love your username lol
If it ain't broke don't fix it... Majority of players like Billy and Bubba, so why would they need to be changed? You want a new killer power that works different? Play another killer or present a killer idea, maybe bhvr likes it.
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@solidestcross63 said:
Scenario 1 you run towards her she blinks past you
Scenario 2 you run at her she tries to blink close by looking down you run away (she might even tp down if it's a 2 story map)
Realistic scenario, she flicks her blink so you don't know beforehand where her blink will go and hits you because she is not terrible at the killer.
Realistic scenario for a two story map, she looks up to cut her blink shorter in that case and then hits you on the 2nd blink...
I'm sorry to break it to you, but if this stuff works against the nurses you play against then you never faced a good nurse...
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@solidestcross63 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740336#Comment_3740336
I'm happy you enjoy playing against him. I don't it's boring
I guess then you haven't figured out the counterplay yet, because he is one of the killers with the most depth when it comes to counterplay.
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@solidestcross63 said:
I love going against the nurse
I do too, but I am not going to pretend that she is not the strongest killer in the game... And that her counterplay does not work as you described... Line of sight breaking works, running back at her does nothing. Unless she is new and has no clue what she is doing ^^
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@solidestcross63 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740324#Comment_3740324
No I want them to have powers that are fun for everyone and don't leave me feeling I didn't deserve a 4k for using them
Billy is one of the most fun killers in the game and basically everyone loves him, I don't see an issue here.
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@solidestcross63 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740318#Comment_3740318
I've seen clips aswell as personally seen a hillbilly run around the entire map 3 times and then down someone all in one chainsaw. I've seen a Bubba down an entire team in seconds. And have seen a michael with infinite tier 3 and tombstone pretend to be friendly and kill everyone
You saw guys meme around and get 4 moris, you saw people grouping up for no reason and get downed by Bubba and you saw people not paying attention to the maniac with the chainsaw... OK you saw bad players, now what?
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@solidestcross63 said:
What's nurse gonna do? Actually chase you? She's one of if not the slowest killer in the game
HahahahahHahahahah yes that is what Nurse will do ^^ Indeed the strongest killer in dead by daylight will chase you... This says every thing we needed to know about your understanding of Nurse ^^
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@solidestcross63 said:
I have I've played against a good nurse where everyone else goes down instantly and I loop her for like 5 mins till she just hives up on me while chain blinding her
A chase against a good nurse that went really well takes like 1 min... Check out some 1v1 and you will see that it basically never takes longer... Nurse has one of the strongest chase abilities in the game and looping a nurse for 5 min means either the nurse is bad, the survivor is way better than the nurse or it is an indoor map with endless line of sight blockers.
Stuff like that just does not happen when the nurse is good.
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@solidestcross63 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740307#Comment_3740307
If she blinks behind you all you gotta do is run forward and then back when she blinks again
No offense, but your understanding of how a good nurse player plays is very limited, go check out SupaAlf or KNightlight and look how they play Nurse... Such stuff just does not work if the Nurse is good, you will almost never see it work, I would say never, but how does the saying go "Never say never"...
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@solidestcross63 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740303#Comment_3740303
You can only avoid getting stalked for so long, and for Bubba I just disagree.
Well you would be in the minority to assume he is stronger...
So what if you get stalked? He is still an m1 killer that needs to hit you normally? Tombstone takes ages and lockers or pallets exist for you to vault, worst case you just sit on a generator and get grabbed, either he downs you and hooks you or he waits until the Gen is done and moris you then, which is almost as bad as sitting there for 2 min while you are on hook... And if you miss skill checks you might be able to prolong the time, I don't know if you can get morid if you blow up the Gen?
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@solidestcross63 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740299#Comment_3740299
They camp till they secure their kill then go tunnel and camp the next one
But that makes it still sub optimal, because the game does not last long enough when you camp someone for 2 min straight without game slowdown... If you lose that game as survivor that is literally on you...
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740274#Comment_3740274
they lower skill-floor for mindgaming. normally killer have to moon-walk. Chucky doesn't have to moon-walk. In practice it provides no advantage at all but the act of lowering skill-floor of an action makes it more prominent for a killer to do said action.
I am not sure how to explain this. It is like great skill-checks. some player might actively avoid aiming for great skill-checks because they see the risk vs reward of missing skill-check as -10% vs 1% but if you make This is not happening base-kit, a survivor might actively aim for more great skill-checks because the risk of blowing the up the gen is lower. A lot of killer actively avoid red glow mindgames vs a strong looper because they see the cost of losing distance as higher detriment then the odds that they get an extra hit.
You can look around corner without showing your model, how is that not an advantage?
I mean fair, playing m1 against a really good player will often times just result in massive time waste.
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@solidestcross63 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740280#Comment_3740280
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740287#Comment_3740287
Are you gonna point out what my fundamental error is or still just say a whole Lot of nothing?
A decent Nurse has control over her blinks and will still just blink behind you and get the hit on the 2nd blink, I don't really know what else to point out here, it is fairly obvious a wrong assumption that only applies when the nurse does not know what she is doing.
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@solidestcross63 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740291#Comment_3740291
Your sentence literally has no meaning yk that right?
It is fairly easy to understand, Myers without Tombstone is a really weak killer and Bubba with his best addons is a bit above average, both are not strong killers and after a certain amount of playtime and skill acquired those characters tend to drop off in effectivity against decent players or such of similar skill.
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@solidestcross63 said:
Ooh some people curve big whoop most camp and use every single aura perk in the game to immediately go to the next survivor
Are you complaining about killers not using Gen regression because they actually want to go for chases while simultaneously saying they all camp in which case aura reading does nothing? XD
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@solidestcross63 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740280#Comment_3740280
From Experience of one's that still camp just far enough away to not set off the camp timer to the point where they can literally just insta down you if you dare try to play the game and go for a save. (Every single one does this) and he can hold his chainsaw however long he wants bc they got rid of overheat so he's not really all that skillfulsure you have the rare few that actually do curves but then you have the most of them that just get up close and take the game hostage
Fairly easy to explain why not many Billy's go for curves, curving is hard af... It is not easy to do, so they are either learning and try to get curves, or they just play in other ways because the learning got frustrating after some time... And a curve Billy will demolish the average player, because that guy put in hundreds of hours just to learn to curve around loops...
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@solidestcross63 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740280#Comment_3740280
From Experience of one's that still camp just far enough away to not set off the camp timer to the point where they can literally just insta down you if you dare try to play the game and go for a save. (Every single one does this) and he can hold his chainsaw however long he wants bc they got rid of overheat so he's not really all that skillfulsure you have the rare few that actually do curves but then you have the most of them that just get up close and take the game hostage
Have you considered bringing the perk that prolongs the hook timer? Seems fairly easy to counter that kind of camping... Just do gens and then a 1 for 1 with 2 survivors before next stage.
Billy still si, but if you get back revved that is on you, and players who play well don't straight up camp like that. They go for chases as there is nothing to win in pub matches anyway.
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@Royval said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7J4CZLF8OGDR/img-2448.jpeg
4th game in a row where the survivors just give up on first hook. Can’t even enjoy the event. I shouldn’t have to play “fun” killers in order to play the game.
I mean no you don't need to play a fun killer to play the game, but if you play the most hated abomination this game has ever seen this is to be expected, isn't it?
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@MudSpit83 said:
All killers should share offerings with each other and all survivors should share offerings and items with each other too.
Why wasnt this a thing years ago? It would be easier to grind for bloodpoints and leveling up characters. Who here agrees?
Because grinding is a big motivation for players, and if it was not many people would stop playing and then bhvr would need to actually fix their bug ridden game so they can sell over prized cosmetics again.
Many people play games only for the grind as it motivates them to unlock stuff, there have been examples in other games where people lost motivation because they had unlocked everything and there was nothing more to work towards. While in dbd the grind is infinite, as you can never have all the totems offerings addons and so on... It is kind of funny, the only players who probably get nothing out of the grind are content creators, as it is their job and comp players, because they scrim mostly and don't get BP for that... Even though you could argue they don't grind BP but rank on the ladder or just harvest their skill in a grind heavy way.
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@solidestcross63 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740256#Comment_3740256
The nurse is so easy to loop it's honestly sad all you have to do is run towards her, and then run away when she trys to blink up close.
Sadako just get a tape when you hit 3 stacks and watch out for her lullaby and manifest/projection sounds.
Wesker just move left and right.
Artist: lockers
That does not work if the Nurse knows what she is doing, which most Nurse's in public matches don't so it might work from time to time...
I don't understand the hatred towards insta down killers, they all have to somewhat work for, especially Billy before his Buffs, it still takes a lot of skill to properly and consistently curve around tiles, so I don't know where you got the idea from that it takes 0 skill?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740260#Comment_3740260
i think 3rd person viewpoint works vs weaker player but is pretty much useless vs the top loopers because of check-spots.
generally speaking, I use 3rd person viewpoint to try to mind-game/make experience loopers to come closer to me so I am closer to S&D. The 3rd person only helps facilitate his S&D in certain instances. it should never give you full hits if the player is remotely good.
I would say it depends, because you have a better view angle and the footsteps are not always on spot. It is an advantage though, question is just how big.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740221#Comment_3740221
it starts cooldown as soon as you dash. for example if you run portable TV which is an add-on that gives you 70% S&D duration when exit gates are powered, you'll have like 6-7 second because the S&D dash duration is lasting for half map S&D. Like I said, this always worked this way.
Mathematically, 1.2 second+2.25/3 second cooldown will increase his cooldown from 12 to 15 seconds. He'll have same cooldown as before change WITH the nerfed Scamper. There is like 0 point in the change. It is just flat out nerf with no positives.
Almost nothing aside from 3rd person POV and a really small model/hitbox...
3rd person doesn't matter if survivor can see my illusionary steps or see me over loops. At the end of the day, Chucky relies on S&D.
In their plan... Not currently, I know how it works currently...
I think you are underestimating the 3rd person viewpoint.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740200#Comment_3740200
no, it was 15 because cooldown started as you dash. On-hit, He has 3 second cooldown and on miss, he has 2.25 second cooldown. The yellow add-on reduced it to 13.2 seconds and 12.3 seconds respectively in 18 second cooldown. It is why some player label this as nerf because you could get similar cooldown when running old add-on's. These cooldown still felt bad because Chucky is 110% m/s killer. He is almost nothing without his ability.
The buff in this version of chucky is that you can use 12 second cooldown alongside add-on to reduce it further.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739517#Comment_3739517
I can agree with Rat poison being reworked/nerfed. No turn-rate add-on's. killer being add-on reliant should be something the past. A large majority of killers as of recent updates have been getting add-on's into their base-kit to be playable.
Almost nothing aside from 3rd person POV and a really small model/hitbox...
With the addon it would probably still be more like 10 seconds, considering they want to buff the numbers again when the bug is fixed. Does it start to recharge after the hit or after the cooldown of the hit in their plan?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
the worst change to date. what is the point of reducing his cooldown if your setting the cooldown to almost the same as prior to the change? Chucky is the super fun to play now for me minus scamper being weak.
He has 12 seconds now, and for now only the addons got nerfed that reduce it even further, because currently it is basically more like 9 seconds because it starts when slice and dice starts... Before it was 18…that is quite the big difference..
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739569#Comment_3739569
I think the code is a reference to Castlevania, actually.
I just saw an opportunity to birdpost
Might as well be, but then again when you post the bird that is the appropriate story isnt it? ^^
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You did not pluck its feathers to make it fit the story…
To explain it for those who don't know the story goes as follows… In ancient greece plato describe a man as a "featherless biped", everybody agreed but Diogenes wanted to mock him, so he caught a rooster, brought it back to Plato, plucked all its feathers off and said "I bring you Plato's man".
So basically showing that Plato's definition was not accurate enough. -
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739502#Comment_3739502
Actually, it's important to have a variety of killers that are good at average MMR and a variety of killers that are good at high MMR, so that all players have multiple choices they can pick.
Yes, a higher MMR killer should have to put up with the fact that average MMR killers exist, because average MMR players deserve to have killers that are good at their skill level too.
And again, trying to dismiss the majority of the playerbase, by claiming it's "their fault they're at average MMR", is really bad game design. Beyond the fact that many players can't actually ever reach high MMR, there's the fact that they shouldn't be required to be at high MMR in order to have good player experiences.
It is not about high mmr or not but about at least learning how a killer works… nobody is expecting them to put in 10 k hours, but if a killer only works because the opposing side does not know how to play a game that is bad design.
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I mean it is the same thing as hug tech in that sense, it was in the game for years… But I have to say this one is more reasonable… If you look at how low the cooldown was, you had like 7-8 seconds of power cooldown, that was quite fast, so I guess that is not too bad..
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@n000b51 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739284#Comment_3739284
I don't know, why do you think all these 'Anti-tunneling solutions' 'will kill DbD' ?
To my mind, the only way to definitively remove the tunnel & the camp from the game will be to directly be sacrificied since the first hook.
But even it is not the subject of the topic here, nobody will play survivors in these conditions I guess… but it will be a solution tho'.Not really the only way you can just make it so hooked survivors teleport to the other side of the map, so you cannot camp as easily or make it so you unhook from a different position... So you just need to walk somewhere do an action and that unhook despite not being at the hook. And for tunneling you could make it so the unhooked survivor does not have collision and cannot be targeted and until he does a conspicuous action.
Not saying this would be good balance wise, but it would effectively kill both strategies.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739204#Comment_3739204
Players can't always just "get better". The difference between average MMR and high MMR isn't just time and effort. There are so many reasons why some people will permanently be in average MMR, which includes things like personal dexterity, reaction times, hardware limitations, personal eyesight, personal hearing, ability to multitask, how much the player is willing to leverage killer strategies that might be unfun for survivors, whether or not the player actually wants to push their MMR, etc.
In reality, many players are stuck in diminishing returns, and some get stuck at average MMR and some get stuck somewhere at high MMR. It feels like you are claiming that average MMR player experiences aren't important, and should be ignored because it's "the player's fault" they are in average MMR.
Might be a bit of an optimistic way to phrase it, but I think if you really want to get better you will find a way... Let's not kid ourselves DBD is not that complicated and you can easily get above average results in many ways, be it bringing busted stuff into a match or by playing a killer that performs better given your limitations in skill... That does not mean everyone is willing to do so... But saying people cannot get better seems like a lame excuse for people who don't even want to become better.
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Would limit synergy and people probably would only run the to two out of them anyway.
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Check out old footage of real infinite 4 men key escapes mori after first hook, omegblink nurse... Old old old swamp that was so big it could not get rendered and many more... The game is probably in the best state we ever had from a balance perspective. Says nothing about how fun it is though.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739364#Comment_3739364
We're just arguing at this point. Enjoy the anniversary event. It begins at 11AM. No hard feelings, peace.
I fail to see where an argument is something bad, but whatever.
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@Moji said:
Boon perks are not at a good place in DBD currently. I personally see complaints from both survivors and killers about boons.
The two main complaints I see from the Killer's POV are:
- Survivors can bless totems immediately after killers snuff them out. (Shattered Hope counters this, but people want this as a base functionality. I disagree.)
- Four survivors can have four boon totems at a time each with four boon buffs. (This could be remedied by limiting the amount of boon totems allowed on the map at one time. But, I believe if all 4 survivors use up their perk slots on boon perks then they are hindering themselves by not being able to use other perks for things like gen progression or finding the killer.)
The main complaint I see from the Survivor's POV is:
- Killers find boon totems too easily and are able to snuff them too quickly causing the perk to lose all value.
My complete proposal:
- Remove the boon humming sound for both killers and survivors.
- Keep the fire cackling sound. (Similar to hex totems.)
- Add an indicator to the side of the screen for killers that specifies that a boon is active no matter where they are on the map. (Similar to hex perks.)
- When a boon totem is snuffed out, the totem location is blocked for 90 or 120 seconds.
Pros:
- Boon totems are not found as easily by the killer.
- Killers have to rely on map knowledge. (Same as survivors with hex totems.)
- Survivors can't hide around a boon totem when the killer comes and instantly re-bless the totem.
- Killers can counter boon perks more without having to use a perk slot on "Shattered Hope".
Cons:
- Boon totems are not found as easily by the killer.
- Indirectly buffs "Hex: Pentimento" when paired with "Shattered Hope". (Gives 90 or 120 seconds of free "Hex: Pentimento" value.)
- Killers give up a little bit of pressure to find the totems. (Biased Opinion: Survivors take 14 seconds to bless a totem. Killers should take more than 2 seconds to find a boon totem.)
I would love to hear feedback on this idea. Thank you.
Survivors no longer hearing the sound is pointless, because they see the aura + aoe anyway... All this does is make it so the killer has no clue where the boon could be and would need to waste way too much time to find it... Especially on maps with upstairs parts this would be a nightmare... What this would basically do is that killers will not look for a totem, because it is too much of a time investment and you don't have that kind of time... A killer cannot afford to look for a boon, if you look for 10 seconds that is almost half a generator for the survivor side... Even when you see it 30 m away it is questionable if you should snuff because of how time consuming it is for you.
Either boons should have a cooldown, or shattered hope basekit (+ perhaps the ability to restore a dull totem for the survivors?) but this just produces too many other problems...
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739362#Comment_3739362
I'm not rating anyone! My whole point was that this is pointless! Lol
It was pointless because you misunderstood its purpose... Just look at arguments people bring forth for their opinion of placements in the tierlist... Do they say t"his killer goes higher because his ability is stronger" or do they say "this killer goes higher because I play him better"... Depending on which it is you should easily know what the point of the tierlist is...
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739357#Comment_3739357
Who are you to speak for "everybody" making a tier list 😆
Anyway, if you think they're special or whatever, that's cool.
I'm also entitled to my opinion.
Because either they are entirely pointless and there would never be a debate about, because who are you to rate how good another player is on a certain killer... Or all those people arguing about where to put a killer on a tierlist do that for a reason because it is about objective strenght, something that can be determined argued about...
And like I said before, every tierlist video out there that I have seen by dbd content creators did exactly that and even made it clear in the beginning of the video.
Sure I guess... But the thing is it is not really an opinion but a factual statement, so unlike an opinion there is an objective right or wrong here... Because the intent people have when making a tierlist is a fact, and as I have said 3 times now, at least content creators are very open about the intent of the tierlist and what gets ranked... Even video game magazines have tierlist and explain what they are based on... And until now nobody ever came up with the idea of it being subjective to the player that plays the character... As this would indeed make it entirely useless... Which leaves us with two options... Either you misunderstood or everybody else is arguing about a person's skill that they don't know, which would be nonsense.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739352#Comment_3739352
It is necessary to give the gameplay variety...
I completely agree.
My fear, is that optional objectives will end up turning out like some of the custom game modes the devs have implemented in the past. Take the winter event as an example: survivors were throwing snowballs just for the fun of it, but that ended up with killers sweating it out to get much easier games. Once the survivors realized that the "fun" side objective was just losing them the game, the mode reverted back to "do gens or die" and the side objective stopped being relevant.
Fair, but I think that fully depends on the player, some don't play to win.
However to counteract that I don't want the side objectives to be entirely useless, but to have a certain value.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739347#Comment_3739347
You are literally making my point for me.
Not really, you are simply entirely misunderstanding the point...
To make it even easier to understand, let say the statement was the further away from the the target you want to hit when throwing ball the harder it gets, and to disprove that statement you show a video of you still hitting it... Why is that relevant? This does not disprove the statement, it is still true that it is harder, just because you hit the shot does not mean that's not the case. And now back to the topic... Mechanically demanding killers are harder to play than a killer like Freddy or Legion, because not only is there far more to know about the killer from its mechanics you also need to practise applying your knowledge. Freddy however can be mastered withing an hour max, because there is so little about him to learn, he has no depth. And that is what is meant by skill expression, when you look at a beginner Blight and then you look at V1 or Lilith Omen it is clearly visible who is the better player. When you do the same for Freddy it is very similar, because there is not much that sets apart better from worse players.
And for your statement of tierlist are pointless because it depends on the player no they are not... Tierlist take into account the objective potential the killer has when played to its limits. That's what everybody assumes when making tierlist, just because you somehow are oblivious to that fact does not change that…and oblivious because if you ever watched a tierlist video people make it very clear how they rate and what they into account... And give that standpoint you might need to change your opinion when someone presents you with a tierlist, because most likely they also assume the best the killer can perform, otherwise just ask them about the criteria... Pretty sure they will tell you.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739299#Comment_3739299
Then I have to ask why you think an extra objective is necessary. The primary reason most people give is that "games need to be slowed down for survivors". Which is why the objective in general needs to be mandatory, or enticing enough for survivors to do it optionally.
If you make the objective optional, then you have the chest problem. It might give newer survivors something to try out, and it will slow down those games, but they're already easy. But as survivors learn that the only way to escape is to complete gens, they will do gens and nothing else. At "high MMR" survivors will just ignore any optional objective and bang out gens and escape as fast as possible.
That's why I'm critical of these kinds of things, is that in order to actually slow down the game, the objective needs to be mandatory instead. Which is basically synonymous to adding extra gens, or just adding extra steps to gens (which is functionally the same thing). You can call it whatever you want, but the end result is identical to adding extra gens here.
So if the objective is optional, it does nothing to slow the game down, and is literally just adding content bloat for the sake of doing it. With the options you've listed, you seem to have a goal other than slowing down the game for survivors, so why do you think it's necessary for the devs to put effort into this?
Well first of all doing generators is really boring so I would like there to be different objectives that have a value for not only me but also the team, which is why I think fun little mini games are a good idea. This also gives the incentive to do something else than gens as it might help you in the long run, it won't make the game quicker but maybe safer I guess? The aura reading on gens might help you preventing a 3 Gen in a dry area for example.
I don't think slowing down should be the goal necessarily... The primary issue is people tend to define Gen Rush as just doing gens where survivors can argue what else am I supposed to do? There are no meaningful side objectives, unless killer specific. Which is why I want to add meaningful side objectives. If those help the survivors to some degree that is great, because the killer probably won't patrol them, ideally he should not see where they are.
The point is that those side objectives might be of benefit for your goal of finishing the gens, not necessarily directly but indirect... Preventing a 3 Gen for example or making it easier to break, something along those lines, an additional layer of gameplay to support the players in reaching their goal.
I don't think making them mandatory helps, because that would just mean add more stuff similar to gens, and then you might as well add more gens and give them a different minigame…the only difference would be that the killer most likely will not patrol side objectives.
It is necessary to give the gameplay variety... Doing gens is boring and other objectives would be a great addition to the gameplay loop, especially if they can impact the flow or the outcome of the game.
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You cannot prove a general statement wrong by giving a singular example of success... Also the result does not say anything about the effort or how hard or easy it was, how different the skill of the players was and so on and so forth. Even if you win 100 games in a row on Freddy it does not change that he objectively does not have much killer specific skill expression and very weak tools at hand.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738535#Comment_3738535
No, I disagree, both of his chase abilities are pretty strong, especially Mage Hand will still be strong after the nerf.
He also has fly which is a great anti-w tool.
I mean it is not that much better than Wraiths cloak, and it does have a huge cooldown compared to a wraiths ability... I would not call it great, the cooldown hinders it a lot because if you use it to catch up you won't have it for map traversal... Don't get me wrong it is decent, but I would not call it great, the cooldown hinders it too much for that.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739292#Comment_3739292
I have about 3 data points. Making any claims about anything in between, either way, is literally guessing.
But throwing out those data points because you don't like or agree with the direction they indicate is just disingenuous. You're heavily implying the actual data is inaccurate because we don't have more info in between. You have nothing but speculation to say that.
Even nightlight disagrees with you there, and that's a not a complete picture, and has several caveats.
I started of by saying their goal is 60% killrate... Which leads to the assumption that they wanted to increase the killrate from 55% onwards and so on. The only thing I said is that we don't know what happened in between,which obviously true and that means you cannot know for sure whether or not the killrate currently is higher than ever... If you wanted to say that you would need to add "as far as the available data suggests"... That is a big difference and all I wanted to point out.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
We already have chests, which is probably the best example of a 'failed' secondary objective. There's minimal incentive to do them, they take away from valuable gen time, and people generally agree that it's a waste of time for survivors.
So if you're making those things optional then likely no one will do them, for a similar reason.
If you're making them mandatory then how is that not potentially frustrating to survivors?
The difference is people can bring items from normal chests in and apply addons to them... That is not possible with the things I described. The incentive would not only be to have the item in the chest but also the associated minigame. If the special item you can get from the chest has a valuable effect people will do them.
The reason chests fail as a side objective is that getting a toolbox out of it is not worth the time investment you put in to open the chest, getting a key only helps the last survivor with the hatch or does nothing and getting a medkit only heals you once, and still takes way longer than just to group up and get healed... And maps don't give you much either.
They failed because they are not worth the time to do them, which is why I want the special chests to have stuff that cannot be gained otherwise, have them have a worthwhile effect that gives them something for their time spend without being busted and it also gives them a fun little minigame that is not skill-checks... The minigame could even be optional...
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739286#Comment_3739286
I'm not turning into us vs them. Literally the only things that fit the criteria people ask for are more gens, or survivors forced to be afk.
You're focusing on balance of old items, that isn't my point.
Give me an option that isn't standing afk, or mandatory objective that would actually not make either side miserable.
I'm open to suggestions, but so far all anyone is throwing out is reinforcing my point that the only side objectives the devs have tried are completely rejected, and literally no one is giving a viable option that isn't essentially just adding gens or making base kit corrupt.
So please, offer suggestions.
Or you could have the white mirror thing basekit, sort of a hard mode objective for extra BP, where you need to finish the mirror and bring it out to get the bonus BP. You could even phrase it as rescue the souls of the sacrificed survivor to give them another chance at trying to make it out or something.
Like I said before, we basically have an unlimited amount of options... Give me half a day and I can come up with 20 ideas, they might not be balanced but something to work with. They might make perks obsolete and what not, but that is not the point right now.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739286#Comment_3739286
I'm not turning into us vs them. Literally the only things that fit the criteria people ask for are more gens, or survivors forced to be afk.
You're focusing on balance of old items, that isn't my point.
Give me an option that isn't standing afk, or mandatory objective that would actually not make either side miserable.
I'm open to suggestions, but so far all anyone is throwing out is reinforcing my point that the only side objectives the devs have tried are completely rejected, and literally no one is giving a viable option that isn't essentially just adding gens or making base kit corrupt.
So please, offer suggestions.
I just gave you 2 things? Turning on switches to get locations of gens, not mandatory but can be helpful.
Special chest that offer items that can be useful but not the items that you can bring into the game, could even be map specific. For example for the Game or Hawkins it could be a key card to open doors. It could be anything depending on what the goal is.
Those things could also offer different mini games... For the opening doors action you could for example make it a connect cable game like in Among US and if the killer does not want to deal with it he can m1 the thing break it. Not saying every door should have that, but maybe some of them.
Then there could be for example parts of a map you can pick up that give aura reading on certain things in that specific quarter of the map.
There are really many things that could be possible. We could also introduce more of an incentive to do dull totems because currently the only reason to break them is noed... How about we introduce a rather hard minigame, if you pass it the totem gets destroyed x seconds earlier, doing the minigame is not mandatory in that case it takes the normal time. The time reduction should be really small like 1 or 2 sec max. If the minigame is fun people will do bones just to play the minigame. Other than that maybe give people a buff for breaking dulls and laying the bones to rest, something rather small, 1-2 % increase on certain actions, nothing big but a little something.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739266#Comment_3739266
What I a mean is that nurse doesn't really have a high skilling. Blight for instance hasn't really had an individual reach his skill ceiling but is nearly comparable to nurse. If we disregard skill ceiling than I agree with you.
Could you rephrase that? I struggle to understand what you mean?
Reaching the skill ceiling of a killer just means you have mastered that killer, which is bound to the killers max potential. Depending on which killer the skill ceiling might be higher or lower. And it is not relative to the potential strenght of a killer, Billy before his buffs was the hardest killer in the game, highest skill ceiling, but he was super weak. About Nurse's skill ceiling, while it might not be considered as high as others in pub games, but when asked KNightlight said in comp Nurse is the hardest killer. So I would say she is hard, when people know what they are doing which they more often than not don't in pub matches.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739287#Comment_3739287
And of those times they share it, it's consistently gone up. It was about 50% right at 6.1.0 two years ago, it was about 55% a year later, and currently it's about 60%.
We don't get data that often, but the data they give is has a very clear trend.
Given that 60% is their goal...
The issue is you don't know what happens in between those sets of data, the stats could be all over the place, you are just assuming that it has to be this way... You are basically just guessing.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738749#Comment_3738749
Killers are already eating better than they ever have been before, kill rates are about 60% across the board in every MMR. That's higher than ever.
Literally every single thing that's been "frustrating" for killers in the past two years had been nerfed into the ground.
Doubling or tripling the gen times would kill this game. And people would still just run quad slowdown and be really frustrated by survivors who can loop better than they can... Because all this would do is further inflate MMR for killers. The same thing happened during the gen kick and 3 gen metas, where killers had literally infinite time to play out the match.
How would you know that it is higher than ever? It is not like we get to see the data that often...
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738736#Comment_3738736
A secondary objective has to be something that survivors volunteer to do. So there has to be some kind of benefit to entice them to do it.
Nerfing boons destroyed them, they aren't used hardly at all any more and are generally a waste of time.
Every single thing I mentioned has a benefit to the survivor, and it was enough to pull them off of doing gens. But, as I said, we apparently can't have anything like that.
The only thing killers want is a mandatory objective that forces survivors to take longer doing their objective. And it can't, in any way, affect the killer... That's a key detail for most people.
The only options that fit this at all, are doing more gens, or forcing survivors to stand afk at the start of the match with something like base kit corrupt.
Can you not turn this into the same old us vs them thing? Both sides want a fun experience and some variety... Nobody wants to generators for 500 h straight, there needs to be variety in the gameplay.
Circle of healing is still decent, people used it that much because it was super busted, as killer you could never play hit and run because the reset time was so low, you didn't create pressure with hooking because the survivor could self heal so fast... Circle of healing could have a small buff and be fine, the other boons need a bit more to see usage, but given their effects makes it hard to not overbuffed them...
What could for example work would a secondary objective that lights up gens... Let's say each map has 3 or 4 switches that are always at the same spots and when you turn them on gems get highlighted for all survivors, either by aura reading or that huge light we have on maps.
Then there could be some special chests that allow you to get a one time use item that for example progresses a gen by x percent or reduces the total amount of charges needed for that Gen by 10% it would be not as busted as BNP because you have to spend time getting it and what not.
I think there are many things that could be done that a lot of people would agree on, but it sadly seems like the extremes on both sides just want the other side to be miserable, but alas C'est la vie...
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737774#Comment_3737774
Max potential? Sure. Max skill ceiling? No. Nurse and spirit are nothing compared to the killers that surround them on either end in terms of skill ceiling.
OK? You need to elaborate on that... What I meant is the strenght we take into account is the maximum potential on each killer. So the player who plays that killer has reached the skill ceiling of that killer and can draw out its full potential... So it is somewhat synonym... What do you mean?