Archael
Archael
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@Rulebreaker said:
Only thing we can think of is if you escaped through the door. If you did then we'll assume it's bugged.
Yeah, i escaped through the gate. This is why im asking, maybe there was some more i didnt know about?
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314975#Comment_3314975
If you want to be specific it's 2,44K per match I think that's 44% win rate for killer and 39% win rate for one survivor. But however many matches usually are blow out for both sides either killer getting 4K or at least 3 survivors escaping.
60% killrates means 6 out of 10 survivors are killed = 60/100. 100 survs shows up in 25 matches, so its 60 kills across 25 matches. 60/25 = exactly 2.4 kills per match. it mens that avarage killer kills 2 survivors in 3 matches and 3 survivors in 2 matches in circle of 5 matches. If we concider killer wins with 3+ kills, then killer win in 2/5 = 40% matches. Then 60% killrates means every survivor die 60% of the time, so escape occurs in exactly 40% cases. So 40% matches survs win and 40% matches killers win... But it is not etirely true. As survs are not a cooperative team, but competetive sole escapers, this means that some of them win in 100%, some only in 40%, and some never. Remember avarage killer kills 3 survs in 2 matches which means 1 of them escape and thus - won the game. Killer win or los is never strictly tied to survivor win/los, unless survs plays as a swf team, but even then its not as simple, some survs do not concider killer win if any surv escape for example.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316021#Comment_3316021
I never said it was 'unfun', so don't put words in my mouth to justify your rant.
But since being slugged or camped does not require 100% of my attention (I refuse to give killer shout outs if I'm playing with friends), I split my attention until I'm either dead, or saved.
NOWHERE did I say it's unfun. NOWHERE did I say 'play another game'. You just want to rant about how you don't like it and invent some slippery slope 'what if everyone stops playing!?' tripe to continue the whole 'tunneling/camping/slugging MUST BE CHANGED' narrative some Survivors have to blame-away their losses.
Tunneling, camping, and slugging have a time and place. Either accept it or keep getting angry when you lose. 🤷♂️
Tunneling, camping, and slugging have a time and place. Either accept it or keep getting angry when you lose. 🤷♂️
Im not getting angry when i lose. I enjoy good game despite of how it ended, its just a game afterall. im getting angry when i spent some of my free time to play a game and game does not allow me to actually play the game. And i never said "im getting angry when i lose", dont put words to my mouth just to justify your rant.
NOWHERE did I say it's unfun. NOWHERE did I say 'play another game'.
Okay then. I will repeat my point, without using words you havnt said, hopefully this will make you understand what im talking about.
When you are slugged, or camped you read a book. Assuming i will do exact same thing each time im NOT playing the game, so: in lobby, while its loading, when hooked, when slugged. And now assuming in most of my games im camped or tunneled just after game started, yeah maybe its my fault, im too weak to play the game, but each time i do this - i read a book. At some point i can conclude that im actually read book more than playing the game, so why bother with launching it? Just to read a book again?
You just want to rant about how you don't like it and invent some slippery slope 'what if everyone stops playing!?'
maybe its my invention. Maybe its slippery slope. But try to answer that question. Lets assume its less than 0.01% chances. But still, lets assume this exact possibility happens. What then? And is risk of making such scenario worth it? Being able to slug/camp/tunnel is worth risk of turning people out of the game? Wouldnt it be better so bhvr remove those action mechanically from the game and balance it without such possibilities?
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3315977#Comment_3315977
Sorry, I lumped tunneling/slugging/camping together in my discussion.
But there have been a few threads demanding punishments:
- This one we are in, demanding BP penalties.
- Killers should have a higher penalty — BHVR
- Tunneling and Camping — BHVR
And that's just from the last 3 or 4 days. Survivors treat Tunneling as if it's a mortal insult, and act like the Killer did it to be toxic every time. These Survivors refuse to admit there are times to tunnel, and refuse to see the Killer side.
And yes; I do play Killer more, but I have been tunneled & camped as a Survivor. I usually just read a book while waiting to die. Same as when I'm slugged.
(This is for everyone who gets angry, not at you, ratcoffee): The best way to deal with camping/tunneling/slugging is to stop blowing up, for two reasons:
- If the Killer really did it to ruin your game; You are giving them what they want.
- If the Killer did it because they felt it was the best move to make at the time; Then you're being a dink to someone for no reason.
Honestly, I'm just done with watching Survivors put me on blast because they decided what I should have done and then got angry because I did not play how they, my opponents, wanted me to play. \
They decided I was trying to make them angry because they got angry, which is psychotic. If any y'all see me in game, and assume I was trying to make you angry; I was not. I don't care enough about someone who's screenname I will see once & forget in 5 minutes, to expend the energy to make them angry.
And I bet it's the same for 99% of the Killers people scream 'Did it to make me mad!'. The other 1% are blatantly obvious; Standing over/in front of you and nodding or revving chainsaw, etc.
And yes; I do play Killer more, but I have been tunneled & camped as a Survivor. I usually just read a book while waiting to die. Same as when I'm slugged.
So, what You are saing is to "do other things"? So you admit that slugging, camping and tunneling is unfun? So what about person who feels they are slugged/camped/tunneled too often? With you strategy, they should just play another game, or read more books like You. What if a little too much people will go with that advice? Who will we be playing with?
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Okay, its a food for thought for Behaviour and everyone here who thinks:
- "Someone else fun is not my buisness".
- Removing one survivor from the game asap is valid win condition.
Who will be playing, with sweaty killers, if all survivors will just stop playing due to inability to play the game?
Its legitimate question, just try to answer it.
No, im not saying that genrush is good. No, im not saying killers should not try to win.
What I AM saying is that - if someone is not able to actually play the game, those people just leave this game. It can happen due to various reasons - game has too high hardware requiremet; game is too laggy; game is too hard; game is too easy (is finished in few hours, so why play it more?); or in this case due to hanging from the hook for 2min, and going back to lobby. <- This is game bad design. Genrush and surv bully squads should be removes but WITH camping and tunneling as a whole. Survivors should not die untill endgame, and game should have time limit, not living survivor limit.
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@Confused_Senpai said:
So I thought GF was supposed to be a stealth killer but he stalks mid chase like Michael and has the stealth of pig lurking around with no terror radius and has a one shot like Michael? I understand GF having a one shot while in stealth but being able to stalk while chasing is a bit much.
your suggestion is to disable his stealth while in chase?
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Maybe not directly, some distance, maybe 1-2m longer than his lunge. His downside is his speed, so cautious and aware survs would potentially escape without even one stab.
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@MrMori said:
Single click buy, click to buy your way to a specific node like OP mentioned, and skip the level up screen would be very helpful.
But what if the entity was going to take the node you were going for with your "multiple buy" click? And what if there are multiple paths to the node?
Entity takes up random node (or furthest from center iirc) and perk node in specific conditions. if conditions are met, then its already taken by the entity. examples:
- you want to take a perk, you click a perk and buy everything on its path, then entity takes another perk in a web, so you cant pick another one.
- If you bought whole path to some far node, then entity started taking nodes furthest from centher so you cant pick those.
- Entity would work each time you have chosen your node, and take same amount of nodes as you.
As for paths, "auto buy" would buy the shortest path or the cheapest (discussion needed) if you would like something else, then you have to do it by yourself.
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And there still will be a huge major problems of winning conditions and copetetive requiriments of the game - survivors being copetetive with eachother and killer being only an obstacle in their game. Killer have no clear winning conditions, and survivors compete with eachother of who will not be sacrificed. Listen me out please. Devs decided to balance killer over 60% killrates, wchich means they kill avarage of 2.4 survivor in a match = so in 5 matches there is 3 draws (2 kills) and 2 wins (3 kills), so avarage killer win rate is 40%, while survivors also have 40% chances, which means 20% games are "draw" but even if there is "draw" 2 survivors won, and all of them was competing eachother who will win and who will lose. Killer is moreless avarage to combined skill of survivors so weakest survivor will always loose and their escape rate will be much much lower than some other "luckier" will have better winstrike.
First thing in balance should be giving common goal of survivors so that they always all loose or all wins, this would make survs being always "all loose" or "all wins" and killer would have clear winning condition rather than being survivors obstacle, and also this would turns survivors from coop/compete into pure coop mode.
Tho devs said they wants sole survivors and some of them being selfish so this will never happen... and this means dbd will never be competetive 2 teams game despite ofd effort devs gives to this mechanic... which all combine means one thing - devs will destroy dbd via adjustments which do not fit to eachother. Its like building plane with car components, and trying to make wings from doors... it just... cant work. Sorry to say that, but one cant eat and have cake at the same time.
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@Rhenux said:
The problem I have with the blood web is that it often takes up too much time. Especially when you have the 2 million blood points full, it often takes forever to spend them again. That gets on my nerves sometimes, but above all, it's just very boring.
This could be greatly improved if, for example, you allowed an object to be picked up at the edge of the blood web and all other objects connected to it to be automatically picked up.
Here's an example.
At the edge of the blood web is a perk that I want. Dead Hard for example. But I would have to collect two more objects before I can buy Dead Hard. Currently you have to select and buy these two previous objects individually before you can buy Dead Hard.
My thought right now would be that if you just select and buy Dead Hard and all the necessary items to get there would automatically be bought as well so that you would no longer have to select them individually.
That would significantly speed up the blood web.
This is exactly what i was suggesting. I hope devs will see and think about one of those topics.
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@Justinradtke14 said:
The changes to the Hud are great. Thank you! I would like to suggest 2 additional changes to the hud before things go live.
1: The same way the Hud shows how recovered a teammate is on the ground. The Hud should show how much progress the gen that's being worked on has.
2: The exit gate that's being worked on should show how much progress it has as well.
Survivor with friends already has this information every game. So to give solo players this information will greatly help balance survivor.
@lemonsway said:
So next you want full aura 100% of the time too?
What is it with people wanting everything? The game is already boring as is for survivors since the objective is just Holding M1 whenever you're not interacting with killer and you want to remove what little unpredictability it has...
No you shouldn't know what % of progress things are. That will only lead to more gen rushing cause people will split up more and Killers will respond with more gen slowdown and more tunneling and more camping. You're only making things worse.
Everytime you want to buff survivors you have to give killers equal tools or else the already negative aspects of one side will only increase.
Stop asking for free handouts and improve your damn skill as a player. You already know that they're working on gens so freaking TRUST THEM TO FINISH THEM ASWELL, what sense would they have to not finish the gen? The only reasons you leave gens are because you're being chased or you're going to rescue someone and you know when there's someone that needs to be rescued so you can make the logical simple conclusion of : oh he left the gen he 's tryign the rescue.
USE YOUR BRAIN STOP ASKING FOR FREE HANDOUTS.
Yeah... i mean... balancing towards swf is fine i guess. Making soloq as powerfull as swf is good in terms of balance. All info that swf has should be available to soloq, so gen/gate progress also, because swf has it. Basekit kindred also would be great and will not buff swf at the same time.
Tho... i would rather keep uncertainty of the game rather than turning it into e-sport. I mean dbd is great as horror game, but more info we have - the less scary this game is. Game should be made and balanced over soloq and LACK of information, and swf should never be a thing. I would love to see swfs removed from the game, maybe let them play on some additional non-supported mode with bot killer...
For me, game should have two modes:
- soloq - the default mode. All balance should be made around it.
- Sun/group/swf mode - here friends can group up and play however they want.
And since game would be balanced over soloq, this means killer would be much weaker towards swf so that less killers will be choosing this mode, and thus lot of players would play soloq mode. I would love to see 1-3 months of testing this. I would love to see dbd staying in place of horror game, and even if it is not scary due to killer on its own it has some theme, climatic music, environment, and the whole uncertainty that makes it better than other asymetric games. If we will still making this game a competetive, moving it towards e-sport then it will be the same thing as VHS.
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@thrawn3054 said:
Overall the changes that were made to the leveling system was very good. The one thing I dislike is forced prestige. Once I have the perks I want it's a waste of BP to reset to level one bloodwebs.
A question:
You suggest to return to previous system where prestige was not mandatory but you wiped out everything you bought on prestige?
Or You want prestige non-mandatory but keep everything on a prestige?
But after few thoughts... i like current system, it forces for some grindings, and makes leveling not stale, you constanly needs bloodpoints. So either way - no. Current system is great.
One thing i would change is qol to make progress faster, like being able to buy something far on a bloodweb, and game automatically buys everything on its path, and if there is no entity to take some things from web - ability to by everything at once.
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@BenOfMilam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312040#Comment_3312040
You would have to down and hook the weak link 9 times before someone dies for the first time.
If they have even one anti-tunnel perk like Off the Record (which the weak link will generally have, because they know who they are), that is going to take a long time and would pretty much make the main benefit of removing someone early via tunneling/camping simply a non-thing. There is no way to get 9 hooks early without winning 9 chases, and there is obviously no early 10 minute camp.
Yes, i agree, but there is also one factor that you ignored even that you have quoted it:
Its easier to find unhooked survivor, and they are weaker than healthy ones. Even with anti tunnel perk its easier to find, and thus chase the unhooked survivor rather than find and chase a new one. With hook stages being general, this means that tunneling is now not only removing one player (takes longer time, but still removes 25% of survs power) AND remoe hook stages from other survivors without needing to find and chase them.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3313139#Comment_3313139
Lmao trying to talk about the word context when it took you 7 explanations to understand the word licencing and you probably still have no clue. And if you really want to go around throwing words, try the word "summary".
Maybe for you 1 match lasts around 15 minutes but for me they last around 5-8. The further you go into explanations the further I'm understanding why you do not manage to unlock 2+ characters a week, it really isn't that hard. 10 minutes for queue times!? What country are you living in because for me it takes less than 30 seconds, every few hours or so it takes 2-3 minutes to find a lobby so.. It really sounds like a skill issue on your behalf and you want everything on easy mode, put in some effort bro it's really not that hard.
lol Explain who you are for me to lie to? I've given you my opinion and you either take it into consideration or just show your super biased opinions. Makes no difference to me either way.
lol or I just stream mate, it's really not as serious as you're making it out to be. If you want easy mode try the new COD battle pass, then again there's' probably another skill issue there too.
Anyways, this discussion from me has gone on longer than intended and at this point you're just blabbering.
Mate, just stop, get some help.
- i was explaining YOU how license works, i dont know what reality you live. You "explanations" was talking "license", "license"... throwing words is not an explanation.
- 15 min is avarage match, not mine but avarage. Do you know word "avarage"? If your matches takes 5-8min then great, good for you, yet this does not change the avarage 15.
- "up to" you know what it is? I have not said lobby time IS 10minutes, i said "up to 10 minutes".
- You totally ignored the time thing. despite of match taking 15minutes, to unlock one character you still have to spend 35 hours IN the game. If your matches lasts 5 minutses you dont need 140 matches, but 420 matches. Even more - if your matches lasts less than avarage it means you waste more time in que than avarage player. if i spent 10 minutes in lobby and my match lasts 15 minutes, then in 2 hours i spent 50minutes in lobby and 110 in game. If you spent 5 minutes in lobby and 5 minutes in game, then you have 60 minutes in game and 60 minutes in lobby. Do you understand how math works?
- Your opinion does not change the fact, that you need to spend 35 hours to earn 9k iri shards, and 70 hours to het 18k shards for two characters. if you think that casual player play 10 hours a day... that mans that you have never played this game.
- yes, for you showing the calculation may seems like blabbering. Your only consideration is to say what you think and say it is a fact... its a pitty, you know?
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@Blank14 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312691#Comment_3312691
Yes, I agree. Many survivors do rage quitting so that the killer doesn't get any killing progress. This often happens to me.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312853#Comment_3312853
Minority? I think it's the majority. They do rage quitting in the late game because avoiding killers gets kill progress. I'm also not saying my advice will eliminate rage quitting behavior 100%. But it will reduce one of the reasons for rage quitting, which is avoiding being hooked or being killed so that the killer doesn't get the kill progress.
Rage quitting is of course very detrimental for teammates, if done in the early game. And also very detrimental to the killer, the killer will not get the progress of killing. My suggestion is that the killers still get the progress of killing, even though they are doing rage quitting.
I agree with the suggestion. Killer should get reward for their play, and not being punished because someone dc despite of reasons.
I do not agree with reasoning - killers should not get those kills becuase rage quits, they should get those kills because its fair.
I do not agree with estimation about consequences - i do not think it will reduce dc as much. yes some douches will stop dc, but not all, lot of them will still dc even knowing killer is getting those kills. As for dc for any kind i would suggest something different, like bots taking place of quitters.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
it's not an assumption at all, earlier on you mentioned trying to buy perks from the shrine and waiting for the one you wanted, So it was a correct "assumption", as you so put it.
I managed to get 2-3 characters per week roughly from just casual play with iri shards, so it seems more like a skill issue tbh. They constantly dish out shards/bloodpoints for free too, there's also free codes for diff stuff.
1st is bad at least - do you know the word "context"? try to read whole, not single words or sentences.
2nd one is straight up lie. You need around 126k exp to earn 9k iri shards. You get around 1xp per second in match, so you need 126000 seconds in matches = 35 hours. One match lasts around 15 mins, so you have to play around 140 matches. Casual players play max 2h per day, which is 56 matches per week... no, its less than 56 matches, because of que time wchich can take up to 10min per match, and this time gives you no exp, and provide no iri shards. If you have fulltime job 8h, and go to and from work, its 9h outside home +8h of sleep gives you 7h for you, shopping, eating, friends and family. If you spend more than 3h per day on playing, then "nolife" term starts apearing, and you have to spend avarage of 5h each day to earn 9k iri shards per week, and no que time including! So no, casual player CAN'T unlock 1 character per week, and certainly no 2-3. This is straight up lie, and this assured me you are just a troll.
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For me, changes for CoH should affect its sel-heal speed, so that with addition of 50% boost to all healing speed from the same boon, it should be on pair with base "self care" perk.
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Removing the hatch is not a problem, when last survivor stay on the match, the gates could open (a formula should prevent oppening the gate surv is camping on, like - if surv is closer than 40m from the gate, it opens but with 30s delay), killer gets free noed, and collapse started. But this will not remove the problem - 2 survs with 4 gens, hiding for entire match, waiting for one of them being killed.
The answer to the problem is redesign sacrifice system, so that survs have unlimitted hook stages before endgame, and dont die untill endgame with some cooldown between unhooks, but this would require much more balancing in terms of gen repair speed and much more other things (tho this would solve camping and tunneling problems).
The solution for now could be bonus to repair speed based on number of living survivors, repaired gens and time of the match. This would help to keep the pace of the match, remove situation of 2 survs hinding in a bush, remove oppresive gen regresion builds, and if working in both ways - remove oppresing gen rushing = the more gens repaired in short time with more survs in the game -> the more penalties to gen repair speed.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312073#Comment_3312073
Survs do not quit to prevent killer from getting killed.
Yes they do. Just this week while spectating, I saw the last survivor left alive disconnect the moment the killer closed the hatch. I've witnessed survivors disconnect the moment they're downed or when the killer picks them up. When I play killer, I get survivors who disconnect when I don't let them have the exit gate after I close the hatch. Sometimes survivors who I was going to carry to an exit gate during the EGC disconnect when I pick them up. And back when I had messages on, I got messages after survivors disconnected mid-match telling me "ha ha I denied you a BBQ stack" (I've had messages turned off for years, now).
It's pretty common for DbD players (on both sides) to be petty and salty and spiteful.
Just because someone dc when downed or after closing hatch, does not means they did this to prevent killer from getting kill, yes this may happen, tho its minority. They do this for various reasons, one of them is to being a douch, and this suggestion can, but not for 100% prevent such things, but they also dc because they feel frustration, wats to end match sooner, or just dont want play anymore, and those people will still dc.
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And how exactly this will prevent rage quitting? Survs do not quit to prevent killer from getting killed. they quit to get another, possibly easier, with less camping, with more winning chance, match. Giving killer the kill from ds is a good thing (I would love it) but this will not prevent rage quitting at all.
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@BenOfMilam said:
Original idea from @Reinami
I disagree, there are plenty of solutions that can actually make tunneling impossible. They just need to do it.
Tunneling is effective because it removes someone from the game, so make that simply impossible. What if survivors 1st hook state was shared as a team, so even if you tunnel the same survivor, you have to hook them 4 times (to get through the teams shared hooks) then 2 more times, to get through their own states. This could be a way to do it for example. Obviously it has other implications, but the reality is that it is possible to fix it. But the fix to it is not to incentivize killers to do other things, or to disincentivize tunneling, its to make it literally impossible to do, then balance the game around that thing being impossible.
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I fell in love with this idea the moment I saw it, because it solves a massive amount of problems in one go (while unfortunately also creating some new ones). Here's a parsed-out version that is a little more clear:
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Hook states as survivor lives
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The survivors no longer have three hook states before they die, rather the team has 8 lives before players die when they go on the hook (meaning it will always take 12 hooks to kill all four survivors). This would mean that tunneling or camping one player out of the game would simply take too long for it to be a viable strategy.
So survivors would share a life pool of 8 lives and once it's out, people die when they are hooked.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5U0CGFIXUVKQ/ppldieifkilled.jpg
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What are the real implications of this?
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Firstly, players are no longer subject to early elimination. This means every game of Dead by Daylight will be a full length match. Early 3v1s will be a thing of the past, barring DC's.
4%'ing off hook, or Kobe'ing, would need to be removed in tandem with this system going live to prevent griefing on the part of survivors burning through their team's lives.
Perks related to being on the hook or getting off the hook like Deliverance, Comraderie, Second Wind, Resurgence, Breakdown, Kindred, ect, would become stronger since you can be hooked more than three times.
Killer strategies related to camping and tunneling become less effective since the benefit from these strategies is removing an individual survivor from the game early. Strategies revolving around downing and hooking survivors quickly will be far more beneficial.
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Disconnects
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A simple solution to DC's is that a player selfishly disconnecting doesn't remove lives from the life pool, giving the remaining survivors a fighting chance by having more time than they would without this system.
This means that in the event of a DC, instead of four survivors with 8 lives, it is now three survivors with 8 lives. This is still more difficult than a normal match, but it is more possible to win than it would be if each survivor had only three hook states to work with.
There may be events of "tactical disconnects," but the situations where disconnecting to leave extra lives in the pool is beneficial are very small. If there are lives to be saved, you will benefit your team more by staying in the match. Otherwise, if you are DC'ing with zero lives in the pool, there is no real benefit since you will die either way.
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Camping
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You might be thinking, "Couldn't the killer just camp someone to death anyway?" The answer is, "Technically yes, but it will be a horrible idea and they probably wouldn't do it anymore."
To remedy camping in this new system, if there are still available lives in the pool when a survivor advances a hook state, either due to negligent teammates or a Bubba using the pinnacle of tactical genius, they take a life from the pool and reset the timer of their current hook state.
So instead of going second state after one minute, you take a life and reset your timer.
This would mean camping someone out of the game right at the start would take a whopping NINE minutes. More than enough time for the other survivors to finish the gens, open the gates, and leave.
Boring for the guy getting camped since he's just chilling and doing nothing for a long time, but at least the killer gets mostly nothing out of it instead of a practically free win.
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Tunneling
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For tunneling, the only scary part is that a killer could potentially just chase the worst survivor and hook them 8 times... but that also means that the other 3 survivors have very little pressure on them and can safely do gens for 8 full chases.
Since it would take so long to get tunneled out of the game, the issue of "early 3v1" is gone.
However, a new problem arises:
It's already frustrating to get chased for three hook states back to back, but how frustrating would it be to get chases EIGHT hook states back to back? This would be an extreme fringe case, but still a potential situation either way.
I personally don't think it would be a major issue, since there are so many strong anti-tunnel tools available to survivor and they would be able to use them up to 8 times in this system.
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How will hook states work now?
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For the first 4 lives, survivors are on first stage when they get thrown on hook, even if they have been on hook once already. They can still Kobe if they want to throw the game, but I personally think 4%'ing should be removed in tandem with the addition of the life system to avoid the immense griefing potential.
For lives 5-8, survivors are on second stage once they are put on the hook, complete with skill checks and associated perks.
After the 8th life has been used up, survivors die when they are hooked because there are no more lives in the life pool.
For clarification, the 8th survivor hooked does not die and can be unhooked, but the 9th survivor hooked will instantly die on hook.
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Major Benefits
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Camping and tunneling will become very poor strategies, so players will use them less.
Playing killer will become much more chase-centric, since they need to win many chases quickly to start killing survivors.
Survivor gameplay will be less reliant on having high teamwork, since there are less scenarios that require high levels of coordination and communication (less unhooking vs a face camper, less bodyblocking vs a tunneling killer).
Survivors no longer have to worry about getting removed from a match early on, and instead will always be able to play a full match.
Chase-oriented survivors are no longer punished for playing the game how they want, and can instead take many chases back to back without losing the game for their team.
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Potential Major Issues, and Ramblings
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Survivors may feel like it is unfair that they lose lives because their teammates are performing poorly. This change means lone wolf players will feel as if they are forced into playing into the game's team mechanics, which may be unpleasant for them.
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Matches will generally take longer, and killer will generally feel more difficult. Since this is a direct nerf to some of the strongest strategies available to a killer, playing killer will become harder with this system in place.
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Weaker killers will feel less viable since they can no longer quickly remove a survivor from the game. However, strong chasing killers will feel more or less the same.
This is more a problem with the fact that weak killers are TOO weak, and strong killers are TOO strong, than with camping and tunneling. Strong killers can still use these tactics, but they don't need to and never needed to. Weaker killers rely on them to get any kind of edge over the survivors.
=
Killers will rely more on controlling generators and 3 gens since their options for playstyle have been changed from "camp, tunnel, control gens, go for short chases" to "control gens, go for short chases."
=
Camping and tunneling are no longer effective strategies for winning, but are still just as unpleasant to play against. The rate of seeing players camp or tunnel will go way down, but it will generally feel much worse when it does actually happen simply because of how long and drawn out using these strategies have become.
This begs the question, "Is camping and tunneling a problem not because it's easy win with them, but because it's unfun to play against? Would making camping and tunneling into guaranteed losses change anything at all in terms of how it feels to be camped or tunneled?"
These are difficult design questions, and I think they can really only be answered in testing.
Would I be less annoyed at being camped or tunneled if I knew it meant the killer was throwing the game? Yes, probably.
Would I still be annoyed? Yes, probably.
====
End
====
Questions? Comments? Concerns?
I'm interested to see what people think of this, and what holes can be poked in it. As well as the general opinions of the community.
Sorry i havnt read everything from this post. I want to stop You on the idea of shared hook states.
If hook states are shared between survivors, then it does not matter who is hooked, whole team loses their states. And because resqued survivor is easiest target - killer know where they are, its easier to down them - this change will make tunneling even more rewarding -> tunneling one person will not only takes one surv as fast as possible but ALSO will eat all hook stages from all other survivors.
this is my suggestion
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/360072/what-about-change-in-sacrifices
I believe its better at prevent tunneling.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310507#Comment_3310507
Dude... the mental gymnastics man. 11/10.
I literally gave to you the win condition, how it is the win condition, why it is the win condition, and what both sides needs to do to win. I gave you the reason of why it is a zero-sum game for everybody and how it is a competitive game. But instead of even try to understanding you twist all of it because you have to be right.
Not only that, but again you come back to "I have the right to have fun in a competitive game at the cost of people not playing competitively"... dude, stop already, stop saying the same thing over and over after people give you enough proof that you are wrong, and stop trying to discard arguments you don't like with "it's off topic" when it is not.
Stop it. Get some help...
I recomend You to start reading and understanding what you are reading. Im not going to repeat myself.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310365#Comment_3310365
Killer need 3k to win because how the MMR works. The killer is awarded MMR for each kill he gets and lose MMR for each escape a survivor did. Taking in count that all survivors granted the same amount of MMR, doing a 1k would mean he lost MMR, doing 2k means no gain, 3k means MMR gained and 4k means the maximum amount of it. So, a minimum of 3k for consider it winning, 4k for maximum performance.
Also, the killer lose his addons whatever he kill somebody or not, so to maximize their use he needs to kill as most survivors as possible, as if he do a 0 or 1k is just wasted addons.
And even if all of this wasn't true, said by BHVR itself, the game for survivors is a 1v1/1/1/1, so each survivor is having a competitive match against the killer, while the killer is basically having a 1v4 competitive match against the survivors.
I don't know why deny the evident. Even Fall Guys, a casual game without a ranked system meant to be played for fun is a competitive game. Every game of zero-sum is a competitive game. It's not hard to understand.
So... you CAN'T say which conditions are killer winning conditions? You cant show where game itself stated killer wining conditions, and you, by yourself cant pick one condition? This was the only thing i wanted, and you failed. Can you admit already that game has no winning condition for the killer or you are going to try some more arguments? I hope this time you will find something.
Definition of competetive game stated that it has to have established and clear winning conditions, one side wins, and one side loses. Survivors may have 4 competetive games towards one killer, and every escape is killer lost for survivors, BUT even if this one victorious survivor consider killer lost, the killer itself can kill other 3 survivors, and all 4 of them consider killer victorious... so which side won and which loses in this scenario? Did killer won? Not for this one survivor? Did survivors won? As a team no, but individually? One of the did, yet killer do not see it this way. One survivor won over 3 other survivors, 3 survivors can win over 1 survivor, every escaped survivor won over killed ones. This game is competetive but only between survivors. If you add killer to the equation, or consider survivors as a team vs killer, then there is no competetive gameplay according to definition.
BUT
Vocabulary, definitions and descriptions does not matter in this subject, this was only out of topic, one sentence that was not bringing anything to the discussion and i dont understand why anyone started whole different offtop thread about this.
Even if dbd was competetive game, and for the sake of the subject, lets assume it is. Being competetive game does not mean it have to be frustrated and onesided. Game mechanics can be adjusted and designed in a way where noone is feeling bad and bored which is the case of camping and tunneling. I agree that this is one of best strategies to counter swf squads and genrush, but other things could be adjusted at the same time. Devs should not only encourage killers to do chases by increasing gen repair times. They should mechanically removed camping and tunneling WITH adjustments to gen repair times at the same time. Even if dbd was competetive game played only by tryhards, does not means taht some players have to play most boring game ever - hanging from the hook for 2 - 3 (with kinship and reassurance) minutes before end the game.
Did anyone of you, campers and camping defenders played the game that started against lethal pursuer blight, catching you in 20s and then hanging for 3 minutes from the hook while rest of your team escaped? I bet you was so satisfied with the game... Its always so satisfing when you have litterally nothing to do for few minutes and then lose the game... great times. i dont care if 1, 2, or even all other survivors escaped. I lost the game after 3 minutes of not doing anything. i wanted to play the game, i dont care if i lost, i care if i was playing the game. I try to play all roles, but prefer killer, but due to campers i play survivors less and less often even if i have daily - i try to rereoll it to killer daily just because camping. And more such people and there will be no survivors to play against for everyone, not only you, campers, but also me. This is also a reason why camping should be removed from the game, and other means of preventing doing gens should be available rather than removing one survivor as soon as possible. I already have long time in killer que, and i blame you - campers for this, and behaviour for allowing for such things.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309425#Comment_3309425
So it's not competitive because there's differing grades of Killer winning? Since 1 Survivor can win alongside the Killer, it's not competitive? Keep reaching.
The Killer's GOAL is to kill EVERYONE. The Survivors GOAL is to NOT BE KILLED & escape.
Therefore; they are competing against each other. Your verbal gymnastics are useless and incorrect.
No xD
The goal of the killer is to hook and sacrifice. Noone never and nowhere said its to kill everyone. Show me part of the game where it is said. And. Why everyone is saying that killer wins when performing 3 kills? you have just said taht killer have to kill all of the survivors. Does it means the killer fail if sacrificed less than all?
Survivor goal is to escape either via hatch or exit gates, yes.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309714#Comment_3309714
I think you are judt salty, because you expect every game to be 4k and not getting it handed to you. Guess what. 2k is actually balanced outcome. It means nobody really won the game. Both teams did good and got half the desired outcome. If you can only setlle for 4k, go play single player games. PvP games need to have balance to them.
With your mentality it would take 0 time before you start to complain why any regression perk exists should you start to play survivor. Also I would guess you play killer instead of survivor, because killer is much easier to play when you pick up the game. The way you brush off 39% escape rate talks a lot about you.
Also it's survivors who are leaving the game now so your killers are leaving threads crashes hard with incentives and queue time and escape rate reality.
I just want to add one thing here - 2k meaning that no team won means that 2 people has lost the game and two of them won the game, screwed is the killer who did what he should and yet did draw. Screwed are survs that was killed, because even if they done everything what they could they lost even if killer did not won.
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"The mistake OP is probably making is trying to buy each perk from the shrine for 2k, again thats crazy."
This is an assuption, and a bad one. Noone is trying to buy each perk for 2k iri from the shrine, its insane, and i dont know where you got that from.
"You're best off waiting until a sale or an event and buying a character for half price iri, you get 3 perks instead of 1 and the character.""
The problem is that this is the only way. buying perks/characters for iri shards means grinding... and a lot of grinding... no-life level of grinding to buy only one character, license not included. And perks from license characters do not have an option for iri shards. This is a problem, not solution.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309276#Comment_3309276
Except 1 kill is 'Entity Displeased' indicating that the Killer did, indeed, NOT win.
It baffles me how people act like the Killer 'has no win condition'. If the Killer gets 1 or 2 kills; he lost. If he gets 3 or 4; he won.
And again; the sides compete against each other to win, so it is competitive, no matter what verbal acrobatics you use to change definitions to fit your narrative. Or are you seriously telling me Survivors don't compete against the Killer to win?
By definition, it's competitive, like EVERY PvP game.
Definition of competetive game is "Competitive games are those in which players play against one another and where one player winning means another player loses"
If killer "won" by killing 3 survivors, that means one of them escaped and thus "won", then both sides won - killer, and survivor, and this by itself means that dbd is not competetive game.
Also, "entity displeased" does not mean "lose", you can still pip up... did you won or lost then? there is not enough condition to even tell if killer won or lost, and this also is against argument that dbd is competetive game since Killer cannot "win" for sure. More, surv escape and de-pip at the same time means they done nothing in the trial... are those really victorious? Game never said "survivors won", so how we know? Win condition in dbd are contractual, not established. Dbd by definition is NOT competetive game.
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@Batusalen "I wasn't even respond to you because again, you are ignoring the facts already given to you and keep saying "stay on point" even when what have being said is on point but it's not good for you to address it (again, if your answer to "Survivors should stop doing X for the sake of the killer's fun?" is no, then your answer for "Killer shouldn't be able to do something because is not fun for survivors" is also NO), until I got the "DbD is not competitive" part..."
No, my answer is "yes", survs should stop doing certain things, and this also should be included in game design, not only forced by players, and i was saying this from the beggining, but someone just chosed to ignore some of my sentences. But this is meaningless since this topic is not about overall balance, but about killer camping side, which also is bad for overall game enjoymnemt.
@Batusalen "Dude, you said it yourself. Survivors can win by escaping, so if they don't escape, the lost and so the killer wins. And those 3k in terms of MMR are official, as like I just said, is how MMR works and if you want to get better, you need to do it."
Dude. You said it by yourself "game is competetive because two teams cant win at the same time" i showed you example of that they can, and you ignored it even that this was in the post you quoted.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
Ok. This is the last time I'm going to explain it and if you don't understand then I really don't care anymore, you want changes but have no idea as to why they can't be implemented. EVERYTHING in this post and the posts above I've made are related around cosmetics, but for some reason at all you do not grasp the concept of what I am saying, so I will break it down clearly.
The term "game licencing" means "a licence that allows an establishment, business, club, etc, to offer games that can be played for money." In this situation it is dead by daylight with another company, for the sake of an example we will go with the resident evil bundle. You want to gain the perks from the resident evil bundle yes? Well you can, but only if you pay for the bundle. Why? because it is LICENCED and they are under a CONTRACT where if they give the bundle out for free THEY WILL BE SUED because of the CONTRACT and what was agreed in the contract from both companies. THAT is why your so called "soft-lock" will always be like that and will never change.
The way you are explaining bloodpoints/iri shards to work in your original post, that is EXACTLY how the game is at the moment. Except BP are for levelling up and shards are for unlocking stuff, again, from the paragraph above, LICENCING STOPS YOU from buying the specific characters from a LICENCED BUNDLE. Understand? No? Ok I'll explain further. Every killer Dead by daylight has created is earnable by iri shards except the companies that have paid to partnered with DBD, every company they have signed a contract with you have to buy to use that product. (product here being CHARACTER AND PERKS)
Now as for your example of perks being in the tree and taking forever, the easiest way to fix this would be by DBD adding around 10 - 15 perks in there a day, instead of 4, but even then iri shards take a while to grind so it really makes no difference at all.
For DLC's to be successful they have to have meaning, again touching back on your basement hooks/design idea. I personally think its pointless and wouldn't pay for such a product. Now maybe if you said an entire map overhaul with it looking different, darker, brighter, scarier, with changes you can see 99% of the time, definitely.
Now back to licencing, your main post revolves entirely around licencing, because that is what is stopping DBD from giving the rest of the perks out. New DLC is always nice but it has to be meaningful. And also, notice once how I never once disagreed with you.
I would love to see new cosmetics being added to the game but I doubt they will add anything anytime soon.
OMG... i dont even know where to start... you are wrong in so many ways...
- "The first time" you mean? you hav not explain anything yet.
- License is for characters, and locations, not for perks. Unless you saw Nemesis actually hitting generators and using "Eruption" in RE2...
- Company that signed a contract with behaviour do not care if they sell DLC or give it away, only thing is that behaviour have to pay second company for those DLCs.
- But if we assume (for the sake of the argument) that wat you have said is true, then selling licensed perks in shrine would be violation of contracts... but it is not.
I hope you got this, because its the simplest it can be said.
Now, if we got explained around subjects, we can go to the point:
Current system of perks being unlocked via real money, especially in terms of licensed characters, is definition of "Pay to Win" <- this is the subject, this is the point of this thread. Not the way how cosmetics, and licenses are sold.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
I always see 'DBD is not a competitive game!'
Yes, yes it is. Each side is COMPETING AGAINST THE OTHER to win. Since both sides cannot win, it is competitive.
I think most people mean DBD is not an e-sport level game. Which is different all together.
Survivor can win by escaping, okay. But there are no win condition to the killer. Even those 3k is unofficial win condition. But even if i give you that, one survivor escaped, so three was killed, so killer won... and survivor won... so yes, both can win. Also, only one surv died, then surv lost, and killer lost... so no side won? No, dbd is not competetive game even with this logic.
But even if it was, Being competetive does not means it cant be fun and interactive.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3309257#Comment_3309257
And you are still out of the point yourself, it is ILLEGAL to break contracts, hence why specific perks arent available to buy and are locked behind microtransactions.
What contracts? What are you talking about?
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@Batusalen "But the problem is fun is subjective and relative and we have two points of view here. What about the killer fun? If my fun is to hook all survivors and make sure they are fully hooked, should I sacrifice "my fun" so you can have yours? What if my fun is winning all games possible? Should I stop playing in the most efficient way for the sake of survivors fun?"
Removing camping will not prevent this. Unless Your fun is to make others not having fun... then yes... but this means noone should care about you if you dont care about anyone.
@Batusalen "What about survivors who do unfun things for the killers? Having a survivor with Boiled Up getting to a place where he knows I can't hook him is unfun. Should survivors stop using Boiled Up so killers have their fun? Or what about the survivors that brings 3 flashlights and makes impossible to grab someone to hook in peace, should they stop doing it to stop taking away killer's fun?"
Yes, those are problems too, also should be adressed, but its not the topic for that, just focus on the point.
@Batusalen "Again, you can't balance or take away something just for the sake of fun (much less when taking in count only the fun of one side) and you can't expect for people to not play competitively in a competitive game for the sake of your fun. And people don't want an "interaction with the killer", they want an "interaction with the killer and win it", because getting hooked is an interaction with the killer that you have lost and being camped is maybe not having a second chance to win the next."
But dbd is not a competetive game... and even if this would be - Removing camping will not prevent anyone from playing competetively, people can do that while not camping. And still, being camped is neither "interaction with the killer and win it" nor even "interaction with the killer" this whole paragraph has nothing to the discussion.
@Batusalen "And your suggestion, in paper, sounds good. But I can see how SWF would start to have only two survivors doing gens when someone is chased or hooked, and two survivors with PT is still 46.04 seconds per gen, while still punishing the killer by not being able to defend his kill. If you made your debuff to take place even if someone is repairing, you would just be punishing both sides."
This means that survivor side should also be tweaked in this or that way. This is never one-sided, but this topic is only about camping.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307498#Comment_3307498
I started playing DBD at the start of this year, I've bought every single DLC on the survivor side and haven't even felt like I've broken the bank yet (And I used to spend hundreds if not thousands on cosmetics within a given month/year).
Now if it was something like destiny, or call of duty i'd understand, but it's dead by daylight. You wait for a sale and you buy what you want, and you grind for the other perks and learn the game in the mean time.
Without the substantial grind for perks, what really is there to do in this game? Nothing. Ranks reset once a month, each character can get to prestige 100, but who really cares about that?
you are still out of the point.
Post you quote is about buying stuff. You are talking about the grind. Grind is quite okay. NOT OK is "how you unlock" those perks, NOT "how you upgrade them". Unlocking game mechanics (perks), especially mechanics that gives real advantage in game ("eruption", "call of brine") by real money is pay to win. Noone is against buying DLC's. Noone is against grind. problem is that shrine is a joke, and perks unlocking system is p2w. All perks should be available to unlock from the start by bloodpoints/iri shards, not by microbiomes and real money. Microbiomes and real money should be only for cosmetics (survivors included), and MAYBE killers.
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To prevent killers from tunneling, i can see some solutions:
- Give survivors gen repair speed bonus for each killed teammate.
- Remove perma death untill end of the game.
- All of the above.
Of course this would require balancing gen repair speed and killer powers to account for inability to remove one person from the trial.
Tho i believe this would be a good change.
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Simply giving voice chat to survivors is terrible idea. Mostly because not everyone likes hearing screaming furious kid that is frustrated that you do not obey to their leadership.
Also, not everyone has same map awareness, and not swf will never be as coordinated as true swf. I sometimes play with friends, and its not as easy as it seems. Yes, we can effectively share info of who is doing gens, who is near the shack, who is chased by the killer, what killer it is... but we simply cannot give eachother live info of who is where, where are gens, totems, killer etc. "Killer is near me", but where are you? "In a bush, near some water"... and i still dont know where....
Also, not everyone know HOW to comunicate. not everyone knows what is looping, slugging, or even what "shack" is, especially in terms of new players.
For me, there are two things that can be done to closes distance between swf's and soloq, and then, when this distance will be as close as possible, game should be balanced for the middle:
- Give survs reallife info: kindred, situal awareness etc as basekit.
- Remove 1 perk slot from each member of swf
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307511#Comment_3307511
You basically think of PH's cages with a little more ooomph, yes?
That could be interesting.
More-less... but basically yes, this is good start, those cages are great for anti-camping.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306684#Comment_3306684
lol if I'm "anymore to the point" then I'd be writing the post myself.
You can't take constructive criticism well without saying it's not to the point clearly.
Where is your "talking to the point" and any form of criticism?
The point is that dbd perk system is pay2win, with examples of that, suggestions how to change it to not being pay2win, and examples of different forms of monetization instead of selling perks.
Your "constructive criticism" is "licenced characters should not be bought with iri shards" and "I will not buy cosmetics to the basement".
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SWF groups should have perk slots removed, and this would do the trick.
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307500#Comment_3307500
many people seriously don't understand that 60% when playing against inexperienced players and using tunneling, it was said somewhere that without tunneling/camping the stats drops to 30% (with 50% = 0, because killer need 3 kill for up his mmr) so the real winrate is about 20% (with camp and tunel)
I might missunderstood you.
But killrate is not winrate. Also, there is no "win" condition to killer (some say its 4k, some say its 3k, some say its at least 1k), but 60% killrate means that 6 out of 10 survivors are killed, and only 4/10 escape. 6/10 is 24 kills in 10 maches, wich is 2.4 kill per mach, and as you cant kill 0.4 survivor, this means avarage of: 2 kills 3 times, and 3 kills 2 times, and cicle repeats. And this means that killers win average of 2 times in 5 maches (assuming more than 2 kills are win for killer). So 60% killrate is only 40% winrate for killer.
(And there is a joke. Even if killer win only 40% maches, survivors have 60% chance of being killed in a mach, so they also win only 40% matches... AND only 40% survs escape, which means there is a competition BETWEEN survivors, so its not as fun as it is. Playing with killer on the exact same skill lvl means that other survivors can be better than you, and your 40% winrate drops to 0% in favour of 100% winrate of your better teammates... this is qite fun)
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yes, bloodweb is really painfully slow.
Ability to choose any thing in bloodweb should exist, and anything prior to selected thing should result in buying everything in shortest path. If i choose iri memento mori from bloodweb, without manually unlocking everything on its path, the game should automatically spend my pb to buy everything in the path to iri mori.
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@sanees said:
toolbox + Built to Last gives you -70 seconds to repair a generator, while the upgrade only gave you 50 seconds
4 survivors is already -280 sec
And now add the perks for genrush and discord, then you wonder why a killer who physically does not have time to make 12 hooks in 2 minutes camps you
I agree with that genrush is also unhealthy to the game, tho this is not a topic for genrush. Both cases should be resolved - genrush and camping, but this is topic for camping, and the fact that genrush is unhealthy is not an argument for camping.
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@Anti051 said:
Killers probably wouldn't tunnel and camp as much if they didn't constantly feel like it was the only option in a desperate attempt to stop the gens.
Not really. 10s added to gen completion did not make camping and tunneling less frequent. So no, making gens slower will not stop camping and tunneling.
Tho i agree that both camping and gen rushing is bad.
There was a proposal in terms of gen rushing/regresion, making gens slower/faster depending on match pacing - more slowdown perks/less efficient teams would get passive gen progression bonus, and too fast gens would do otherwise. But its the topic about camping - camping should be removed by game mechanics. Like, hooked survivor would be consumed by Entity, and "spit out" after few seconds in random place at least 30m away of the killer (This could go further like survs dont die untill endgame, and each hook giving more pressure/increasing time before "respawn", giving more opportunity to actually play the game), and this would remove camping totally.
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"Why you can't remove camping and why camping is not such a problem as it has a lot of downsides has being explained to you multiple times, you are just choosing to ignore all those facts because you have the false sense that you have the right to "have fun" at any cost, without taking in consideration the way you are playing the game (because again, most of the time the killer get a 4k camping is because survivors doing in that situation) or if it cost the fun of your opponents."
Im not ignoring it, and i was reffering to those arguments in my posts. The problem is that those arguments just makes no sense, what i also explained, and it is You who choose to ignore something.
"You have 3 hooks stages because you can also heal from damage and be saved, if you didn't have them one survivor could stay in the game at infinitum as every-time he got saved and healed would undo all the time the killer has spent to hook. In fact, removing the insta sacrifice at 3º hook would only encourage camping as now is more important than ever for that hook to complete. Camping is not abusing any mechanic, you are securing one kill at exchange of letting survivors do their objectives without your intervention"
I nreally dont know what are you talking about here... what infinite time on hook? What has 3 stages to the fact that im camped and stay all stages at once in one hook?
"And I didn't pretend to do an argument against camping mentioning that as there is no more argument to be made after all what had being said (funny that then you started to complain about things totally unrelated to camping just after saying that, tho) but that people would do "unfun" things for the sake of winning, both survivors and killers. Should survivors stop doing all that to win so killers can have their "fun"? If your answer is no, then apply the same to camping."
But this topic is litteraly about camping, not gen rushing etc. We can talk about it in another thread and i also think that gen rush is unhealthy to the game, but its not a point to this topic. This topic is about camping - and camping is unhealthy mechanic. Yes, it has downsides, survs still can easly get 3 escpaes, and securing 1 kill is nothing compared to good killer who can get 4k without camping. But this does not change the fact, that camped surv have all their fun removed from the game, which can leads to either abandoning the game (and who would you play with, if all surv players would stop getting fun from the game? Bots?) or unhealthy behaviour from that survivor in the next trial which will move this wheel.
Camping is a bad mechanic, unhealthy to the game, and has to be stopped before people reach their frustration level and abandon the game.
I can remember times of "hot-seat" and playing on one computer with friends. And "other enjoyment is not my responsibility" is and always been a false statement. If I used OP class, move, faction etc and win the game without fun of my friends, noone wanted to play with me anymore. dbd has much more players than i had in times of hot-seats, but this number can also drastically changed if something will not be done, and even if not all surv players would leave, their number can drop so much, that killer que will last for 30min... I dont expect players to stop camping. I expect devs to realize potential consequeces of this mechanic, and remove it, while at the same time other things would be done, to prevent gen rushing, and make much more healthy environment for all the players - casual, and competetive.
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@Bran said:
A simpler change would be just adding all perks into the bloodweb pool. DLC are still dlc and now all players can have access to each perk. No new monetization method needed.
Purchasing dlc may just give you the perks on start as a head start at tier 1 maybe.
This also can be a thing. But inability to use a perk unless you buy something with real money is the definition of p2w, and this thing has to change. We still have to want to buy dlc's, but killer dlc gives obvious thing - a killer. While survivor DLC gives another skin to your survivor (because survivor is just a skin). Yet all perks should be available to anyone, for some grind, yes, but not hidden behind paywall.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3303884#Comment_3303884
What? Stating your example and stating MY point of view in regards to it could not be anymore clearer than me trying to "stick to the point".
Maybe you have no idea what the word "licenced" means.
Definition: "Video Game Licensing is when you make a business agreement with a company so they can have access to your intellectual property for the purpose of creating a commercial product."
In other words, You *WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO BUY SURVIVORS/KILLERS WITH IRIDESCENT SHARDS IF THEY ARE LICENCED* Everyone else you can buy with iridescent shards. This game is NOT pay to win by any means and even then the bundles are dirt cheap.
My point is no one cares about a cosmetic you will never see for 95% of any playthrough and if you will then why even try and argue a "pay to win" strategy in the first place because you are completely contradicting yourself and missing the point that you are so desperately trying to prove.
And finally, your issue in regards to my previous post just screams that you do not want to pay a penny and want to earn all DBD perks for free. There's a very limited amount of licenced killers/survivors in the game and each bundle does not cost a lot at all, they are even cheaper if you wait for a sale (which DBD REGULARLY HAVE). You want to play DBD but don't want to support them in any way whatsoever but still want their perks? Lol come on bro.
Can you... talk to the point? Nothing you have said has any sens, but moreover it has nothing to my poing, except the argument about basement cosmetics. And okay, i can give you that, but arguing against this thing has nothing to the actual point.
You almost got to the point in regards to perks and dlc... but you missed it... try to read and think, please.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305987#Comment_3305987
Dude, you are talking like you started the match hooked already. The funny thing is you don't realize your logic can be used in reverse: "If someone can't handle being hooked to death it's their fault". It's your fault for letting the killer get you downed, more so taking in count survivors have a lot of tools in their hand to avoid this, alone or with help of others.
And it pains me to address that fallacy you used as poor attempt of having a point, but we disapprove cheaters for the same reason we disapprove the "Stop hook timer" mechanic: They give the chance to abuse game mechanics in a way that wasn't the real intention giving the user an unfair advantage that doesn't have any downsides. And before you say it yes, camping has a lot of downsides as not only me, but multiple people told you by now.
If you remove camping, it will be not an intention of the game to camp anymore xD this is not an argument. This is not why cheaters are disaprove.
And yes. Ignoring all factors, yes, this is my fault i got hooked in the first place. but i have 3 hook stages for some reason, i have 60 seconds on each stage for some reason. Camping is also abusing those two mechanics AND is ruining the game for one person. If you love to hang on hook, then good for you.
And i dont mind for loosing. I dont care about loosing. But i care about playing the game, and being hooked 2 mins is neither fun, nor playing the game.
Yes, gen rushing and bodybloking is not fun either, but why you are talking about this? This is not an argument against camping, its not even related to this.
And no. Im frustrated, because im not survivor main. I play surv only with friends or if there is daily/challange to be done, and iritates me that for 3/5 games i hang on hook being camped, 1/5 games killer is afk, and only 1/5 games is actual playing the game.
And i can see a bigger picture. Playing survivors its just unfun, and anti-game. Its non interactive, non fun, to hang on a hook for 2 mins, this is difference if my team is unwilling to unhook me, or the killer camp. From killer perspective, its easy way to secure 1k, its nobrain, and also non interactive.
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Its not only about the team - do your gens, and 3 escapes. Its also about single survivor. Being hooked for 2 minutes is not fun at all, its not interactive, and contribute nothing even if all other survivors manage to escape. Its bad mechanic.
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If killer hooked survivor, its already a pressure, 3 hooks means death, i would love to see a mechanic that automatically teleport survivor far from killer the moment they are hooked. Its not fun to hang on a hook for 2 ministra straight the moment You started the game. Someday people frustration will met the end, and there will be no survivor to play with.
Especially that unhooked survivor is still one hook more, and one hook less to kill. If someone cant handle chases its their fault.
And no "let people play how they want". Why we disaprove cheaters? They play as they want?
Answer is: because this is ruining anyone else game.
Same goes for camping and tunneling.
And yes, those are mechanics of current game, and means of killer to secure the kill. And yes, Killers should get something in exchange, but so unfun mechanic, that ruins the game for anyone should be removed and changed.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305287#Comment_3305287
And someone who cannot be killed. Which then turns into 4 people doing gens.
Again; the mechanic was meant to encourage hunting and discourage camping. But Survivors had turned it into a win/win scenario where they always got unhooks because they FORCED the mechanic onto Killers.
Once again; the devs decided it was abused. No matter how you slice it; that was the end result. It was abused.
So, mechanic was meant to encourage hunting and sidcurage camping, but survivors was using it to "force" killer to hunting and not camping, and this is an abuse?
Okay, get it.
I have a question tho.
Why killer could not go for a chase with ONE of those 2-3 starring survivors, hook them, and repeat untill all was hooked 3 times? Why they had to camp, even tho it was to prevent camping?