Archael
Archael
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@jesterkind said:
How exactly would you do that, though?
I'm legitimately curious- I see a lot of talk about "hooks over kills" but nobody ever seems to go into detail as to what that means. What changes would you suggest to bring about this shift in win condition?
I know its not question for me, but i git triggered by the phrase "nobody ever".
Here is mine
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/360072/what-about-change-in-sacrifices#latest
And there was also other suggestions.
Like each kill increases gen repair speed (going with another thing - each repaired gen decreases gen repair speed) which would highly reward killers for not killing but just hooking. This one was explained in more details.
And others.
Its definitely not "nobody ever"
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3391168#Comment_3391168
I've literally never seen anyone call auric cells "microbiomes" before lol
But unfortunately, they cannot do that due to licensing contracts, even getting 10 cells every devotion level is out of the question
However, they definitely can put shards in daily rituals (and just make more that we can do each day)
Okay, i have seen only thins name since today, but it seems its localization bug :v
But what licence contracts You have in mind? Did anywhere bhvr posted that they have said in their licence agreements with third party that are forced in some way to not give those characters free? If so, then i have no questions. But its weird since most licences are either brought one time and buyer can do with those what they want (to a degree) or have to pay each time player will buy licenced character, but its bhvr who decided that they will be selling those exclusively by auric cells and never give auric cells without real money. But even then one can argue that since dbd is not f2p game, those cells was bought already when game was purchased.
Its difference between - we can't give You cells because third party dont want You to buy their characters without spending a Penny.
And. We dont want to give You cells because we have to pay for third party for things You van but with cells.
Yet if its the latter, those few cells would not be enough to make a big difference since most players are already buying dlcs and will do that for earlier access to dlc, and those would compensate for those few who was so entitled to buy new characters with free cells that they spend months if not years to grind prizes.
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Perks are the only thing (apart visual distinction) the survivors brings into the game, so every one od survs need to have perks to justify why buy those.
At the same time, buying perks is p2w mechanic and it does not matter how cheap it could be.
Perk overflow is the reason why lot of perks are so weak, there is very little things perks can do, and very limmited interactions player can do, and no perk can exceed from that.
There is very little about perks devs can do:
- Shifts perks balance now and then.
- Admit there is too much perks and most of them are underhelming and overhaul the system:
- Reduce number of perks by a lot, and make new dlc brings max of 1 perk per character.
- Rebalance all perks
- Make all perks be free to everyone AND AT THE SAME TIME
- Change monetization focus from selling perks (which is p2w) to cosmetics, maps including.
- (I would love to see adjustable hooks and generators, not only charms, but whole visuals od those).
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3391171#Comment_3391171
what? There's no counter? :D well. Let's agree to disagree then. Because facing the wall is the most primitive case. Having map awareness (knowing where nobody is going to be) is the second. Chasing away survivors in vicinity is 3rd.
Also I am usually very happy to see multiple beamers in my lobby. It means, that gens will not be done. It means survivors will probably waste time following me every time. So every successful hook is much more valuable then any hook in a game where beamers are not present.
Sure sometimes I do loose my price thanks to a very good outplay from survivors, but overall I can always track it to my mistake or some genuine good play from survivors. Still I would say time-wise it's usually beneficial for me as a killer, that survivors bring flashlights (because of cumulative time wasted) - provided matchmaking did not screw up bad (but in that case they don't need to bring any item usually).
Yeah. Lets agree to disagree.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3391165#Comment_3391165
When are they not fine?
The only case I can think of is if the survivor group made out of 4 very experienced player get to play against new player - denying him every hook. But that is not really a problem of flashlights, it's more of a problem of matchmaking.
(I am taking into account, that locker saves are no longer possible) - so did I miss something?
There is no counter for flashlight saves, yes this require skill but this is oppresive mechanic.
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Yeah, dailies should not be annoying nor feels forced.
For dailies there could be some iridiecent shards rewards (like something between 50-100 shards), and doing 6 dailies should reward with some (10?) microbiomes (game is not free to play, so imo there should be a way to earn currencies). But weekly reward should not reset each week because such mechanic would make it feels like work to do instead of fun.
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@MerleDixon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3391146#Comment_3391146
Flashlights are fine lol
Most of the time, yes
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What about:
Trials have time limit.
Survivors cannot be killed by sacrifices, hooks only slow them down.
Instead of gates there are switches.
Turning both switches will banish killer and survs won.
After time goes down, survivors are killed by the Entity and killer won.
After time goes out there is day on the realnewso either killer is bannished or survivors are dead by daylight
(Moris would further slow survivor progress or apply some status effects).
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@mr_Beast_Artist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3360557#Comment_3360557
How do you like this idea - All survivors repair the generator 2 times slower BUT after death, the survivor turns into a ghost that repairs the generator 2-3 times faster, the killer can hit the survivor and he will appear in another place. Such a system +will force the killers not to tunnel and kill the survivors ahead of time. + appear at least some kind of gameplay after death, as it is very boring just to watch! I'm playing the game, not the movie.
I want some kind of interaction after death
This way new meta would be to rush suicide by 1-2 survs depending on killer performance
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@HellyeaNonoobspls said:
Thank you for your feedback, several things: what you consider a slight awareness advantage, is a gigantic looping advantage, besides the statistics speak for themselves, if the perks are the most used, it is not chance, it's because people find it brings more than a slight benefit. And I don't agree, we don't have to come across a survivor with and without to see the effect of the perks, I'm just contrasting the average level of the dozens of survivors I see with or without and the difference in average level is striking. And this advantage also makes it possible to increase the capacity of looping, it is enough simply to retain the most visible elements on the screen before using a first palette in order to be able to easily create a route, it is within reach of all. dont you think so?
Not really.
I am poor survivor and just because i know there is a window, there is palette etc does not enhance my looping ability. More on that. Its kind of like brown Nurse addons than let her see blink location - seeing something does not teach You anything, it makes You dependent on it. Besides, it takes one perk slot, which can make a difference.
And no. I can't believe in an argument that windows users are generalny better than non windows users, citation needed.
Just because something is used extremally often does not means it is op. There is much more factors than this one.
Yet sheer fact that something is used so often is enought to make a closer look and finds a way to reduce usage of this thing.
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I kind of agree and atbthe same time i kind of disagree.
Its hard to tell.
I played most od my games as killer, last moth or two i played really poorely, and rarely but i had never na issue with this.
Just because survivors can see where next pallete or window is, does not elevate their ability of looping, just increase their awareness which i see as a good thing. Especially that one cannot know the difference between same surv with and without this perk because 1. Its hard to get same surv two times in a row where only one od those matches was with this perk for comparison and 2. There is much more variables than only perks.
But on the other hand, if one perk is used by the most of players this means something has to be done with it. Either nerf or make it a basekit.
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I agree that lot of survivor kit, especially most oppresive ones like flashlights and CoH should be nerfed i'm also highly after the idea of nerfing camping and tunneling, those two should be adressed at the same time.
Nerfing survivors will not remove camping and tunneling on its own (tho those changes are needed), camping and tunneling should be adressed by bhvr.
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But this is not a suggestion to end the tunneling. There are topics about ending tunneling and camping.
This is topić about small changes to encourage more healthy playstyle.
One think i could add is to adress this on tutorial.
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@mr_Beast_Artist said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352737#Comment_3352737
time can be changed as well as regression percentages of 5-8% and penalties of 25%.
And the idea is that it is necessary to kick the farthest generator from the hook and not any
What about:
If killer leaves Hook area within 12s. After hooking a survivor, all gens explodes loosing 5% current repair progress and regress (if not repairing) with 50% regress speed as long as killer is Xm from the hook
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@DaManOfGaming said:
There are too many killers holding the game hostage by camping hook.. this could be solved if hook progression would pause after the killer has been in close proximity for too long. That way survivors could have a fair chance.
Your suggestion is creating a gamę hostage.
Game hostage is a situation where one side is totally stopping the progress, and disallow the game for being finished.
Camping make sacrifices progression, and ultimately kills survivor - nothing is hold.
Camping allow other survivors peacefully finish gens - nothing is hold.
With Your suggestion, if killer would chase anyone near the hook, the sacrifices progress IS HOLD. And if other survs would stop doing gens, the whole game would be hold. This would be holding game hostage.
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@mr_Beast_Artist said:
he does not violate the concept of the game as a nurse.
Who needs to be removed is the nurse, since she is unbalanced strong and she does not care about windows and pallets
She is so easy to mindgame xD especially now with no exposed blink hits.
But yeah, she is miserable right now.
Mayers is not.
Halloween chapter was the one that make this game being so popular and not being a niche indie concept.
Also, Mayers is quite powerfull but not overpowered.
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Better to just remove her blinks.
And maybe give her one-use blink for every hook. Tho those blinks should not allow her to travel through walls.
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I had a situation.
While playing wraith i have unclocked and lunged for a survivor. David used dh the moment he saw i was about to swing, but before i landed my weapon, dh run off and i downed David.
One may call it nad timing, David should know that i'm about to lunge from that distance and should press the button a moment later. I call it infair even tho i was rewarded because of that.
For me, dh should not exist in the form it exists, there should be no perk that destroys all killer effort by just pressing a button.
But if we leave dh, it should be active for 0.75s instead of 0.5s
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Some people are open, and would love to talk, or at least see what others have to say.
Some other are toxic egoists, that want everyone to do what they see the best.
What i understand is that console players should have ability to see the chat. I had fun game with 3 console players, and they couldnt even see my "GG". Not to mention one tip i gave to one pc player since i have seen one major thing that they done, even that gamę was fun.
What i cannot understand is that even if there are options to disable the end game chat for those who don't want it, those people want it to not being existing even for those who likes it.
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@Theme_Master said:
Analysis of why tunnelling is favoured by some killers.
So, I want to address the issue of tunnelling. While it doesn’t appear in everyone’s games, we certainly hear enough about it to know that it is negatively impacting a lot of people’s fun, which is very important for the health of DBD. For context, I started playing in June 2022, and have ~600 hours in the game (mainly killer). Hence, I am obviously no expert on DBD, yet I believe a thorough conceptual analysis of game mechanics, and how these mechanics are interpreted and understood by players is crucial to address the fun-degrading presence of tunnelling in DBD. I believe a more fun DBD for every player with reduced or very little tunnelling is possible and achievable.
The TL; DR below will take you straight to my conclusion.
Obvious points to get out of the way:
1) I don’t know if I really need to mention this, but I actively avoid tunnelling in my killer games. This is not a criticism of players that choose to tunnel, rather an investigation into why some killer players tunnel in some of their games and why they believe they need to or should tunnel. Let’s investigate the issue, not lampoon players.
2) Hook Camping is often closely related to, and often appears alongside tunnelling. For the sake of brevity and simplicity, this is an analysis only of tunnelling, with some mentions of camping.
So that we are all on the same page, Definitions:
- Tunnelling: Prioritising chasing, downing and hooking one particular survivor over the other three. Usually understood to be a focused effort to eliminate one particular survivor from the match quickly. DBD forum browsing can reveal many comments from users highlighting a further observation that tunnelling often involves foregoing easy chases/hits/downs against the other three survivors, in favour of focusing all offense on the chosen survivor to be tunnelled.
- Player experience: Simply put, how much fun someone has while playing a trial in DBD. While this involves different paths for the killer player and the survivors, I assume here that both sides can and often do simultaneously have a good and fun experience playing a trial (match). It is widely reported by DBD players, forum posts, content creators, etc. that tunnelling negatively impacts the player experience of DBD.
- Objectives: (I acknowledge there is some difficulty when talking about objectives as ‘winning’ is not clearly defined in DBD.) Objectives are what players contest/control/secure/manipulate in order to influence the overall course of the trial and/or to try and ‘win’ or to achieve their own main goal.
What are the Objectives in DBD?
My analysis involves these assumptions:
A) Survivors are the killer’s primary objective, and they chase, zone, hit, down, hook and mindgame/deceive survivors to influence the overall course of the trial and/or come closer to ‘winning.’
B) Ranging in spectrum from lone wolf to self-sacrifice for the team, the Survivor’s goal is usually escapes, and they repair/contest/blast mine/control their primary objective—generators and the exit-gate switch—to influence the trial and achieve their goal/win. Unhooking or saving survivors can become a high priority objective, but ultimately the generators must be completed and the exit gate switch(es) must be opened for survivors to achieve their goal of escape/escapes.
C) The hatch is understood to be a tiebreaker/game-ender mechanic that exists to avoid and curtail end of game stalling and frustration when too few Survivors are left in the trial.
D) Generators and the exit gate switches are the secondary objectives for killers that they seek to contest/regress/protect/trap/vomit-infect/control/patrol to give them more time in, and control of the trial.
E) All other objectives (hex totems, vaccines, Sadako tapes, Plague fountains, Franklin’s dropped items etc.) are considered to form a complex tertiary web whose priority has to be juggled with and considered against primary (and for killer primary + secondary) objectives throughout the game. For example, cleansing old Hex: Ruin doesn’t win you the game (i.e. open the exit gates), but not cleansing old Ruin may lead to you losing the game.
DBD, being a competitive/adversarial game (N.B. not competitive in the e-sports sense), is fun because players, in addition to and parallel with skill expression, get to contest and strategize around objectives. A trial has rich cooperative and confrontational player interaction, leading to a fun and engaging Player Experience.
The problem of Tunnelling:
With all of that established: why is Tunnelling a problem? Intuitively or through experience, it is not hard to understand that consistently being prioritised and chased by the killer without break or pause, and/or spending a lengthy amount of time on the hook when tunnelling is accompanied with hook camping is not fun and negatively impacts the player experience. This strips away the tunnelled (and perhaps hook camped) player’s ability to engage in the rich player interaction DBD has to offer, and blocks or impedes their participation in strategizing on the progress of the trial. Tunnelled players are even locked out of some of the core basic mechanics of DBD like healing or unhooking teammates if they are focused down and hooked back to back. Tunnelling creates an anti-fun experience for the survivor who is tunnelled, and it often flattens the strategic depth of the game for the other survivors, creating an anti-fun experience for the other survivors, as well as being vicariously anti-fun.
So why does tunnelling occur?
I argue that tunnelling occurs because of a combination of the actual state/distribution/accessibility of objectives, and some killer players’ understanding and perception of their control over objectives and their ability to secure objectives.
Consider that Survivors are objectives that can rescue/unsecure each other, and we naturally understand that the killer’s pursuit of securing their objectives becomes much easier as more survivors are eliminated and less are active who could rescue each other. Now whilst that is obvious, I want to highlight that there is a tension in the game here; based both on the design and the balance of the game, there is a massive swing in momentum and control of the trial toward the killer upon the first elimination of a Survivor. A huge part of DBD is managing the balance of objectives, and managing this balance becomes much more difficult for Survivors when the first of their team is eliminated. Based on how the game is now, (from my imperfect understanding), this is a huge turning point in the game, and there will always be an attraction for the killer towards the shortest path to the first kill/elimination.
There is nothing wrong with this attraction towards a swift elimination; we cannot try to shame someone for trying to win or influence the trial! Rather, it is the designers’/developers’ responsibility to ensure that this path to elimination is fun and involves strong player interaction, or more likely that this path is slowed and controlled through design and balance to reduce and contain its negative impacts on a fun player experience. There should be some mechanism(s) in place to counterbalance any negative impacts related to the allure of the killer pursuing a swift elimination.
The second point here relates to the location/distribution of objectives, and the scenario where an unhooked survivor finds themselves in-chase again and at risk of being tunnelled. From the killer’s perspective, when an unhook happens, two of their primary objectives are in one place. When the killer surveys the map and the distribution of objectives, being present or close to an unhook is likely to seem to be a very strong play. This compounds with the point above, meaning tunnelling and then staying close to the hook make a very strong strategy. My conclusion is that the elements of game design and balance should provide mechanisms to inject fun into this situation, or more likely to counterbalance against the negative impacts of this strategy or provide alternate strong choices for killers.
Whilst the game mechanically has these concrete incentives for tunnelling, we must also consider that the interpretations and understandings of killer players who choose to tunnel are not the same thing as these incentives. Many players, forum users, and content creators with vast experience do not believe tunnelling to be necessary or even to always be the strongest strategy. (I’m not saying there is a consensus, and skill range is a huge factor, with tunnelling being the go-to for comp play for example.) The question is then why would the killer give up their other options in order to tunnel and maybe even hook camp? Tunnelling is not a risk-free strategy; it can even be a game throwing choice at the wrong time or situation. If changes are made to DBD to reduce the frequency of tunnelling and its strength as a strategy, as they have been with base-kit BT and then its buff to duration for example, they still might not change anything if some killer players understand tunnelling to be either the strongest/safest/most reliable strategy.
In the face of a large map where the killer doesn’t know the location of the survivors and feels that they have a tenuous control on the generators, focusing on one objective, hooking it and thus knowing exactly where it is, and exactly where another objective will come to, and then eliminating that first objective from the game may seem like the safest or strongest play.
*** TL; DR ***
My ultimate conclusion here is that the motivation for tunnelling occurs on a spectrum between a single-minded desire to win and a lack of confidence or certainty about the current state of the trial. Very rarely do I believe that a player will be at either edge of this spectrum, but rather somewhere in between. Not only does DBD need fair yet strong protections in place to limit or counterbalance blatant tunnelling that creates an anti-fun experience for survivors, but the game also needs to include meaningful incentives that provide alternatives to tunnelling as both a strong strategy and a safe strategy. I’m not experienced in game design, so I won’t be putting forward any suggestions, rather I’ll just outline what I think is the problem.
I'm posting this before reading any answers, so please don't hate me :x
Answer for tunneling is simple - to win a trial. But this one quote is important:
"There is nothing wrong with this attraction towards a swift elimination; we cannot try to shame someone for trying to win or influence the trial! Rather, it is the designers’/developers’ responsibility to ensure that this path to elimination is fun and involves strong player interaction, or more likely that this path is slowed and controlled through design and balance to reduce and contain its negative impacts on a fun player experience."
It's behavior who should understand this, and implement mechanics that reduce unfun interaction, and at the same time make game fun for those who liked it for aby reason other than this being most optimal way to play.
Yet.
I don't think that tunneling is as bad as some people say.
For lot of survs chases are most thrilling and most fun interactions in game, even if they loose and are eliminated early (tho this can loose the game for the rest survs, who does not feel the same way).
Much bigger problem here is camping which make three things:
- As with tunneling - shortened the game for one surv, and eliminates it from the game early.
- Removes ANY interactions with killer.
- Makes hanging survivor being bored af for some time. Disconnecting when camped can help with this, but this screw other survs, and dc penalty is longer than waiting for Entity to consume me.
And removing camping would be also a thing that would reduce tunneling for some killers.
And solution is simple - make hooked survs being randomly transported to another hook while at the same time remove killer ability to see hooked survivor (unless they carry another one to know where to go), and remove loud notification over unhook.
But
The beat way to remove tunneling is to make survivors being progressively faster in doing gens depending on time and how mamy survs have Bern sacrificed.
For example. For every survivor killed before 9min in a game, all remaining survivors get +50% gen repair speed, for a max of +150% for sole survivor.
This would make killers being discourage of removing anyone from the game before first 9min.
This would require some balancing on the survivors side for example - for every gen done before 9min, survs suffer from -15% gen repair speed for every repaired generator, for max of -60% on the last gen. This debuff is applyed on top of aby other gen repair speed modifer do that it will never reach -100% and will be significant even with other bonusses.
Edit:
Im gonna share my recent experience for some though.
I player the Nurse, tho it was long time since i played her last time (its worth noticing).
In the surv team there was 3 claudettes and Meg. Meg was quite good with loops (especially that i had to re-learn blinking), and one claudettes was hiding extremally good.
I could easly kill two other claudettes but i did not wated to tunnel, i wanted just to chill and mess around. If i wanted to win i would kill those claudettes, spend some time over the Meg, maybe camping, and then close the hatch, forcing last Claudette to go out. But i did't wanted that. I wanted to hook everyone at least once, best was doing 8 hooks, and then mess around one surv just to play.
Yet i hooked one claudette 2 times because i wronged her with another Claudette. I noticed in my mind that 3rd Claudette on HUD was hooked two times, and when i downed her next time (2 times) i left her.
I decided to find Meg i spend some time chasing her, and was comminted for reasons i said above.
After hooking her i was going to find lasy Claudette, but found this "3rd Claudette", then last gen popped up. I downed another Claudette that was once on a hook (she had different outfit), and brought her to the gate, then opened the gate and allow her to crawl out.
But at the end, on chat, Meg wrote: "ez. Thx for tutorial". And as far as she really done loops good. I could win this by just tunneling.
I believe some tunneling and camping are made by suche toxic texts.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
Why would anyone buy new survivors if the perks are free? They are merely skins after all.
Why do people but new skins for both survivors and killers? Those are even worse than buying new survivors, and are more expensive.
If You know the answer, then You should know why people would but new survs even if already having perks.
If You dont't know the answer, then look at this - people do buy new skins for existing survivors, so why they would not buy skins that totally changes survivor look?
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/365770/this-is-actually-funny
what was her rank? She has 4 perks from different survivors (kate, ash, david, and adam). All purple. Might not need BP and just wanted to roleplay meg.
Yeah, because typical Meg disconnects? Its even more funny :x
But no, I dont think so because she used cake offering.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353253#Comment_3353253
You cant see a difference right now. But bHVR is developing a Mori System to end the match once everyone is slugged.
Saving us all some time.
I would like to see ability to stand up by themselves if everyone is slugged.
But still... I was always against adept for 4k, and dc was my argument...
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@Z0mbiv0r said:
Tbh, I think every character should play with their base skills and allowing only to add 1 extra. That would prevent many of the complaints about perks being broken. It would take away from the game, granted, but it would still end them. That's what I think anyway.
Then complains would start over characters being p2w feature. This would change nothing.
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@Emeal said:
Heeeeey, I can recommend you a Youtuber who plays the game without Perks.
https://www.youtube.com/%40Mr_TatorHead
A good example that you dont need Perks if you train your looping skills.
To paraphrase in context with this topic:
Because this guy plays without perks, it means that no perks is exact powerfull as combo of eruption + call of brine and some 2 other perks? And in both low and high ranks? If so, then im wrong, and i admit that.
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@BenOfMilam said:
Most multiplayer games have a progression system where you need to unlock items, weapons, characters, perks, ect. Grinding to unlock Dead Hard in DbD isn't too different from grinding to unlock Double Health in Call of Duty.
The major difference here is that there is SO MUCH content in DbD that the grind to get 100% perks looks completely insane to most people. I mean, we've got like 7 years of perks to unlock at this point. It's really just suffering from success and drowning in content.
Yeah, especially perks from licenses which cannot be grinded :)
And shrine gives opportunity to buy perks. 4 each week - 2 killer perks and 2 survivor perks.
There is 122 surv perks, which means 61 weeks (if you are LUCKY) to gather them all, and 104 killer perks = 52 weeks (exactly 1 year).
Each perk costs 2000 iri shards. You get average of 1 shard per 14 seconds in game, so you need to play 28000 seconds = 7.8h of gameplay to get one perk, its doable in 2 days, but most people will get this in 4-5 days, so most people will not get enough shards to buy 2 perks each week (and almost noone can buy all 4).
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With new Killer approaching, I would like to re-introduce my killer idea for potential future use ;)
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@Ithiria said:
I'd rather they partially sink into the ground after being set for like, 20 seconds, leaving only the teeth baring.
That'd make it a bit harder to see, and it'd increase the places you can hide traps. Like if there's a little bit of grass or pebbles right now, trapping it won't work because the whole-trap is easy to see. But if it's just the teeth? It blends in.
This would work, but what bottle of tar would do then?
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I this achiv fixed?
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323674#Comment_3323674
My bad, I have trouble expressing myself 🙄
When I talked about analyzing the environment, I meant that it is up to the player to do everything possible to avoid ending up in a deadzone 😉
Yeah, but there is a problem with deduction of how far Nurse can lunge, becasue its not tied to her speed. Most killers just jump forward when lunging, and we can determine how far will they land because their speed suggest it. We are able to decide how far they are, and when they will be ready to lunge.
It is not the case of Nurse tho.
I found myself few times when running from the nurse. I was waiting for her blink, she was far from me, but instead of blink, she just lunged on me, so huge distance...
And while playing Nurse, i can tell, that she DON'T need such long lunge because of her blink. Experienced players have little to no problem to do perfect blink, and strike without lunge. I often use "White Nit Comb" and see no downsides of it. And yes, my personal experience is not worth much, except that we consider Nurse as "difficult" killer, so why players do not try to learn how to blink with her to strike, and instead they rely on her extremally long (compared to her movement) lunge?
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323457#Comment_3323457
Ok but then you would need to change survivor adepts to make them more difficult because that is where the issue lies. You could keep the same current standard for killer adepts if you made survivor adepts require a double pip, but then people would be up in arms about those being too difficult.
There are some achivements required survs to escape while repairing generators for time of one full repair. And i dont mind making surv adept more difficult by that requirement.
Tho... i would change surv adept so that i can obtain it on ANY surv, based on perks i use: for example: I can get Claudette adept by using only her 3 unique perks on Dwight.
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323455#Comment_3323455
Her lunge is fine.
It's the same as others killers.
Nurse's lunge is not a problem.
Of course, if the survivor is in a deadzone, with no objects or walls to move towards, he will surely get hit, but it is up to him to analyze his environment to avoid this kind of situation as much as possible 😊
Basically i agree... tho it rises one major question: "analyze"... base on what?
- Experience, because all killers has same lunge range? This is couterintuitive, and to learn from that you must first understand how lunge works, and this require you to read a wiki.... really? EVERY player HAS to read outside source to learn that her lunge is weird?
- Visual clues, because lunge is just short sprint of killer? This means that her lunge should be changed. I can learn from just playing, that killers jump towards me when they lunge, yet Nurse, because of her slow movement is outplaced from this visual clues, there is no way to visually learn how far she can jump, and her lung is next mini blink. Lunge HAVE to be tied to killer base speed and Nurse lunge should be shorter.
So whichone is it? Are all players required to read outside sources, or her lunge IS weird?
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If last surv is bleeding out AND hatch is closed, while gates was not opened, then collapse should rapidly progress, sacrificing survivor. But on the other hand - if surv managed to escape from killer while laying down.. then maybe killer dont deserve that sacrifice?
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I hate when any of my progress is wasted because of random guy dc'ing. Changing adept to 4k, means a lot of people will dc just to ensure killer will not get adept if they find killer winning. Also, now lot of survs will bring hatch offerings to make adept for killers harder. Lot of killer will slug to death to ensure noone will get the hatch, but then - lot of people will just disconnecting.
I agree that 4k should be changed into: ensure noone escapes through gates, or better - ensure no gates would be opened. Tie it to gates, not survivors.
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Nurse should be hard to master but totally satisfying when mastered, her skillfloor should be much higher than it is right now, and extra second of cooldown could fit this.
She sometimes also feels unfair for survivors with her lunge which is basically additional blink since based on her movement noone can calculate that she can lunge so far, she is far away and suddenly she hits you. Her lunge should be decreased by 50%.
And her exposed snowballing potential... making her blink attack a special attack is terrible, it not only taken away ability to use expose status (maybe except of fair use of starstruck, and some niche NOED situations), but it also taken away other good perks like sloppy butcher and some other that are based on m1. Her ability to down unprepared survivors with one hit is extremally oppresive and scary at the same time, and yes, it should be nerfed to some degree, but not this way. My idea: when Nurse is blinking in 3m range from survivor, she instantly loose all her tokens and is put into fatigue, maybe some additional debuffs for few seconds. But survivors within those 3m get additional debuff (however you can call it "Nurse pain", "Banshee haul", "mysery"), and then, whenever she blinks near survivor with this status she can attack normally (optionally - if in a chase, surv dont need to have that status, and blink works normally - while in a chase, survivors ARE prepared). Discussion should be how and if this effect should be removed. This would add additional healthstate to all unprepared survivors, which should be fair based on her ability to jumpscare between floors or through walls. But because she cannot hit without her blinks, her blink attack should not be considered "special".
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@RavenBirb said:
WHY CAN"T WE GET MORE< ID GLADLY PAY FOR MORIs this one is awesome
But of course mobile get's it, makes no sense to me.
https://twitter.com/DbDMobile/status/1538944772135600129?s=20
theres more on the site and stuff. Where's the PC port?
Yes, more mori animations, make it monetized, and lot of people will buy it myself included.
And with that - no more monetization for perks, this one is unfair p2w practice.
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322397#Comment_3322397
Some players actually develop a kind of "surv sided" just because they hardly ever play killer, and it shows very quickly in the way the players talk about the game.
What is surprising, and a bit sad, is to see that to ask for a nerf, about every 2 or 3 days, from a killer who can be put in trouble, there is crowd, but on the other hand, to fight to increase the power of the weakest killers of the game, there, strangely ... people are rare ...😣
Like this topic?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/359198/changes-for-trapper
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@Audanti said:
I recall from reading an achievement guide you have to be using the Object of Obsession perk that is one of Laurie Strode's Unique's. Though I did that on PS4 I likewise did not get the achievement either.
I was trying it with and without this perk. i done this few times right now, some times escaping just after 3rd survivor, some times i was waiting long after 3rd survivor before escaping to be sure they are nowhere near the trial. Still nothing
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mayers need one minor buff:
- Stalk meter recharge in survs over time.
- Fully stalked survivors can be moried like with tombstone.
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@Milo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3320025#Comment_3320025
Hey, maybe it just so happens that every survivor you're facing is trying to do that RPD achievement xd
Yeah, but its not funny coincidence XD i mean, i have nothing major to RPD, but seeing same map 10th time in a row (while playing 1-4 games a day, so 4 days in a row only RPD) is just boring :v
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Im playing for fun, and i really dont care unless survs bring 10th time in a row an RPD ;/ but other than that i dont care. I have no winstrike and i dont need it, so i dont need map, and dont care about offering. For me offerings are only for bp bonus, and every non-Bloody Party Streamers offering is a waste for me (its rare tho. So escape cake and survivor pudding are more likely).
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@Sparxlost said:
my personal opinion on how nurse should be reworked...
nurse can no longer attack directly after teleporting but instead goes directly into her fatigue which has its default duration reduced by a third... and she now has normal killer movement speed to make up for her not relying solely on tp for damage...
will look into add-ons and add-on (lol) to this post...
Can You expand that post? Put what you have in mind in terms of personalization, which addon do what thing?
I generally understand what you want and i like it more-less (like shape with addons totally changing his playstyle), but need more details.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319700#Comment_3319700
You do realize that his power functions like Spirit, where he can hear and see indications of where you are (grass moving etc.), yes? If he puts it down right, he is guaranteed to aggro his guard on to you, which means all he needs to do is path properly (cut you off) to ensure a hit. It doesn't matter if you run to a different tile, if a guard is chasing you, holding down W is the only thing you can do, which means you're effectively not looping, and if he paths properly, he guarantees a hit.
Yes, i play roght now as knight.
And im telling you how to counter me. If you dont want to use that, dont do that, but do not throw arguments from the hat.
If You see Knight using his power you can see where path is going and at any time you can just run away, especially that he cant move indefinitely. Do not enter dead zones, and do not stare at knight charging his power while near the palete since its a dead zone at this time. Just run away and he is forced to chase as m1 killer, move away of the tile where his guard is and he has no power.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319461#Comment_3319461
No, it's because once his power detects you, and activating his power takes very little input from him, you are guaranteed to take a hit assuming he doesn't screw up. It's like a dumbed down version of artist. I never said he was too strong, I said he was the worst killer to go up against. Artist can shut down loops also, but Artist is actually engaging to go up against, because any hit she lands with her birds is due to her input entirely. If she shuts down a pallet/loop, you can try to bait out the bird and force a whiff, or you can try to circle around it, OR you can even just hold down W away from the loop. Thing is, it's all on her to place her bird correctly, and there is counterplay.
Knight, on the other hand, only has to put down a guard at a tile and cut you off from the other side. It's a mind-numbing playstyle, and it's not engaging to play as, or against. It gives too much reward for very little effort.
You know that knoght do not see you while creating a path? If you see him using his power, just go to another tile, and thats it - you caountered his power entirely. Until time of his guard is over he CAN'T use his power again, and if he do, they you just move to the next tile. You dont need to use palletes if he is using his power, and he became just m1 killer worse than a trapper since you always knows where his traps are.
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@Top_Secret_117 said:
As the title suggests this is a quick post about how we could make the bloodweb better and healthier for all parties.
Weve all been there, plugging away at spending bloodpoints before the next round, because spending them all at once is extremely tedious, loud, and RSI inducing. At first I thought it was just me, I have carpel tunnel and a few other problems with my wrist and clicking and holding each node for the 1 second sometimes 10-15 times per level can be both daunting and dreadful. Leveling up should never be a chore but weve set it up as such beautifully. When I asked my friends who play on console with similar faulty wrists, even just holding the A button can flare up pain aswell.
Is it too much to ask for an auto fill of some caliber? Especially now that everything costs less, people are striving for prestige 100, its seems now more then ever it should become important to bring the bloodweb to the modern era.
It might not seem like much, but for us users who can allready only game an hour at max at a time, this would bring tears to my eyes to see fixed. And while were at it, please please a volume slider in the settings for bloodweb. Nobody wants to hear the wet slurping noises of the blood web that would rival any kinky anime for the next 10 minutes of level dumping.
So please, throw all your ideas here for a better blood web system that the devs might be able to implement easily and thank you all in advance.
Yes, "autofill shortest route" in bloodweb, could be great. You choose node you want to buy, and game fills everything on the shortest path to node you selected.
btw
"users who can allready only game an hour at max at a time"
There was a troll in one topic, that said the avarage user, casually spend 10-15h a day in game.
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Unused things laying in the pocket can (potentially) breake calculations at some point (tho its unlikely) so ability to sell unwanted items would be great, but not through trade. Selling unwanted items for 1/20 price in bloodpoints would be great.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
There is absolutely nothing engaging about playing against this killer. His most effective playstyle consists of playing against Artist except more dumbed down and more simplified, along with camping every single objective possible with the most braindead power to use anyone's ever seen. I have no idea how this killer ever made it past play testing in the current state he's in.
The problem with Knioght is that he almost have no power. Yes, there are situations where he can suprise survivor, cut their way of escape with a guard and attack from the other side. I often put my guards behind pallete, and go in front of it, most survivors just stand there and have nowhere to go, because from both sides they are screwed... The problem is that if they see knight using their power, survs should just run away, not wait to throw a palette - this totally disables knight power
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Hex: I don't use hex lol, when there was the boom of ruin/undying I was the one who hated it, because it's pure RNG. There are matches where survs literally spawn in front of a totem, and instantly destroy it. GG, wasted slot for a perk instantly destroyed. So, or we fix this thing that survs can't instantly break a totem 10 seconds after entering a match, or an hex slot is the more balanced solution (and it's not that op as you might think).
Best thing would be to make hexes lit the totem only when effect is in use. To brake hex, surv have to destroy lit totem (destroying dull totem will not brake hex, hex still can light up on different totem), totem will not fade out if survivor is currently clensing it (but will fade out if surv will stop clense, and effect will not be in use)
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@illNicola said:
As I said in a previous post, I was doing some tests in private matches with my friends, with simple rules (summarizing: no gen speed perks, no tunneling/camping/slugging, only one slowdown perk for killer) and, before you can say anything, we played like in normal matches, so we didn't take it easy. We wanted to do this test only to see where the game, in our opinion, should focus in possible rework, nerf and buffs. This is my personal opinion, if you want to answer me with what you would personally do, feel free to respond to this post in a polite and mature manner.
GEN REWORKS
- Skill check every 9 seconds, multiplied by the number of survs repairing the same gen. If 3 or more survs are repairing the same gen, smaller skill checks;
- No more gen speed perks for survivors (except hyperfocus).
ITEM REWORK
- Meritocracy: Survs who take red add-on and items are exposed for the entire match. Mori last hook (Like, do you want to use bnp? You have to deserve it);
- No more map offering (both for killers and survs).
SLOWDOWN PERKS
- Killers can take only one slowdown perk;
- Ruin: no longer destroys itself when someone dies. 200% slowdown;
- Pop: Last 60 seconds. Instantly removes 25% from gen total;
- Pain resonance: if the gen is in the terror radius, the killer see the aura of the exploded gen.
HEX PERKS
- Killers can bring along an additional hex in addition to 4 perks. This doesn't mean that killers can't take more than one hex with themselves.
- Rework Undying: If you carry with you an Hex totem, when it's broken, you can choose a free totem to reactivate the totem. It takes 1/2/3 seconds to reactivate. You see the aura of survivors near 8 meters of a totem. You can replace boon totems with your hex to reactivate them (can be done indefinitely)
SCOURGE HOOK REWORK
- If the killer bring 2 perks with scourge hooks, scourge hooks add up. For example, with pain resonance and gift of pain, I have 8 scourge hooks instead of 4.
BASE KIT MECHANICS
- BBQ bk: Everytime a surv is hooked, the killer see where are other survs with the killer instinct. With BBQ: Killer see the aura instead of killer instinct;
- Reassurance: It activates only if the killer is 15 meters near the hook. Same effect as reassurance. If a killer is defending the hook or chasing near the hook, it doesn't activate. Rework reassurance: if you're saving an hooked survivor while you're injured, you obtain endurance as long as you're saving the surv. This effect persists for 2.5/5/10 seconds after you rescue the survivor;
- Ruin bk: Generators lose progress over time if left "unattended";
- Pyramid Head cage basekit: I know, this name suck, but I don't have any idea of how to call it. However, the entity, in case the Killer stays for more than 10 seconds in the area of the hook, will move the hooked survivor in the hook farthest from the current one. Does not activate if the Killer is defending the hook/chasing in the hook zone.
- Last hope: in case two survivors remain, if one of the two is knocked down, he will be able to get up on his own until the last one is alive. As soon as the other dies, all survivors will die sacrificed. Each time a Survivor gets up on their own, it will take longer and longer than the last time. When all survivors are downed simultaneously, they die instantly sacrificed.
- Massacre: in case all survivors are knocked down at the same time, all will die at the same time sacrificed.
- Punishment: If a Survivor hasn't interacted with totems, generators, or survivors for at least 5 seconds in a row for more than 30 seconds, they will become vulnerable and their aura will be constantly revealed to the Killer. It doesn't activate if the surv is healing and the killer see him and start going in his direction.
I also have some ideas on how to rework some killers, but this post is already too long. I thank anyone who has read this post, and I apologize for my English, I'm Italian.
Last hope: in case two survivors remain, if one of the two is knocked down, he will be able to get up on his own until the last one is alive. As soon as the other dies, all survivors will die sacrificed. Each time a Survivor gets up on their own, it will take longer and longer than the last time. When all survivors are downed simultaneously, they die instantly sacrificed. Massacre: in case all survivors are knocked down at the same time, all will die at the same time sacrificed.
If so... i would vote for: if all remaining survivors are downed, they got abiliy to stand up on their own (this will prevent slugging and ecourage killer to sacrifice, which is their objective.
Punishment: If a Survivor hasn't interacted with totems, generators, or survivors for at least 5 seconds in a row for more than 30 seconds, they will become vulnerable and their aura will be constantly revealed to the Killer. It doesn't activate if the surv is healing and the killer see him and start going in his direction.
Yeah, unless surv is hiding within killer terror radius. Surv should not be punished for killer doing nothing. If killer is looking for survivor and thus surv is escaping from killer terror radius and yet do nothing, then yes, should be shown, but this is why afk crows exists, right?
Also, ruin regress speed, and other slowdown perks should be tied to specific killers, based on their movement speed and traverse power. Trapper should have best bonuses through regression since he cannot be in few places at the time, while nurse, blight, hillbilly who can traverse map with easy, should have little regression since they can apply those regression faster and more often.
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I can comfirm that achivment do not work properly. Idk why. 2 matches, while being killers obsession, i got no single hit and escaped through gates as last survivor, yet achivement was not unlocked. I hope bug will be fixed, and everyone who earned it while bug existen will be rewarded with this achivement.