AngyKiller
AngyKiller
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@Piruluk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2911992#Comment_2911992
Seems like the 4 survivors fun wont matter as long killer mains are happy.
Bruh. This game caters to Survivors. The fact that you want MORE concessions to Survivor 'fun' shows your bias.
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@thrawn3054 said:
Medkits promote tunneling? Seriously? At this point is there anything a survivor is allowed to use without it being used to excuse tunneling?
It's almost like a Killer has to focus someone down, or have his progress deleted via the healing perks & items. And then Survivors complain that's unfair. Weird, huh?
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@_AdamFrancis_ said:
You think noed is fine, but cry about circle of healing......kinda ironic bro.
Hmmm!
NoED: Can be shut down before it ever procs, except Survivors are lazy. Can be shut down after it procs, but Survivors decided that's unfair. Requires the game to almost be over to do anything. Cannot be re-activated once removed. Survivors can cleanse it while doing other things, because there's more of them.
CoH: Can be activated at any time. Reduces the time spent healing, which increases the time spent doing gens. Requires the Killer to stop achieving his goal to Snuff it. Can be re-applied every time it's removed, meaning the Killer wasted time he does not have.
I wonder why NoED is fine and CoH is an issue? It's a mystery! 🙄
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@LittleSagey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2643532#Comment_2643532
i guess im the only one in the entire community that actually likes to play the game even if it means im losing....why queue up for such a quick game? if youre doing that well as killer let them reset so you can actually...idk play?
Because when I let Survivors get back up, they think they had skill, and blast me in end game chat with 'ggez' and 'uninstall'.
I will play as sweaty as I can until Survivors learn to stop being little snots in end game chat. 🤷♂️ Why should I go easy on them, only to have them treat me like dirt?
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The Killer cannot have a secondary objective. Think about it:
Survivors have 4 people; they can do 4 things and still have 1 of those things be 'generators' aka: Their goal towards winning.
Killers, on the other hand, are alone. They can only do 1 thing at any given time. If they are not chasing Survivors or pressuring gens; they are losing. You give Killers an actual secondary objective and you are just nerfing them & giving Survivors easy wins, because anything other than 'attack Survivors & kick gens' is 'Let Survivors win'.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2911035#Comment_2911035
But that is your fault for losing that survivor. They can only heal if you lost them. A lot has to happen before they can heal.
Find totem and bless it (search time + blessing time). After escaped a chase, they then have to go to the whatever corner of the map to heal (several seconds of running in the open + healing which is now painfully slow like self-care). All of this time not doing gens. That is a lot of time.
Allot of time for ONE Survivor, while 3 do gens; 1 chased? 3 on gens. 1 Booning totem? 3 on gens.
Meanwhile; Killer has to find totem & snuff it. And no one is doing chases or kicking gens while he does that.
On top of that; the healing speed is given to ALL FOUR Survivors, meaning 1 person in an SWF bringing CoH leaves the other 3 to run full-META (though CoH is META in it's own right). Basically 1 CoH = 3 free perks; 1 per Survivor using it.
And once it's been used twice; it's now paid for it's time investment for Survivors via less time spent healing.
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No. If you can't be mature enough to stick out a match where you're losing, and want to run away & screw the other 4 players; you deserve the DC penalty.
Heck; if you can't be mature enough to complete a match for ANY reason short of 'Other players were obviously hacking & I could not leave any other way'; don't log in. Not trying to be a jerk, but every ragequit ruins the game for 4 other people, and it's selfish to think you should be allowed to do so whenever you feel like it.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910702#Comment_2910702
Survivors can't do gens and do Totems either. And save other survivors, help those on the floor, do this and do that.
You act like a killer has to drop everything they are doing and find the boon when they hear it. They aren't that strong. You don't do that when someone has self-care so it is not that imperative for the boon either.
Hexes? Oh my. They are strong enough they have to be found, otherwise, Ruins continues to remove progress, Devour Hope is 1-shot, Lullaby causes impossible skilchecks, Blood Favor causes pallets to be locked. These are all very debilitating for the survivor. They have to be found.
Survivors can't do gens and do Totems either. And save other survivors, help those on the floor, do this and do that.
Yes, they can. They, literally, can do 4 things at the same time, because there are 4 of them.
You act like a killer has to drop everything they are doing and find the boon when they hear it. They aren't that strong. You don't do that when someone has self-care so it is not that imperative for the boon either.
For CoH; yes, he has too. If he lets a Survivor go after hitting them, and CoH is in play? That Survivor is healed less than 30 seconds later. The Killer's entire 60+ second chase is erased in under 30 seconds. And will continue to be erased unless he tunnels (which Survivors whine about non-stop), or removes the boon (Which then gets re-applied once he leaves the area to chase survivors/patrol gens/hook someone)
Hexes? Oh my. They are strong enough they have to be found, otherwise, Ruins continues to remove progress, Devour Hope is 1-shot, Lullaby causes impossible skilchecks, Blood Favor causes pallets to be locked. These are all very debilitating for the survivor. They have to be found.
So does CoH. It removes the Killer's progress. It can remove the entire affect of 1 chase, which can be upwards of 60-80 seconds, with pallets, good loops, Dead Hard. Not to mention if Survivors sabo hooks, or a flashy or pallet save, & the Survivor wriggles free, runs off, and heals at CoH.
You seem to have a habit of ignoring or massively inflating anything Killer-based while trying your hardest to make Survivors sound as under-powered as possible.
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@Faulds said:
Dead hard needs nerf for sure. Good news, the devs actually talked about working on it.
NOED needs a rework. It gives cheap downs. But is inconsistent when you really need it. Everyone would win if it got changed. Unfortunately, we have nothing on the radar about changes on it.
How are the downs cheap?
What makes a NoED down different from a normal down? Take out the 'after 5 gens' BS; What makes NoED 'cheap downs' compared to any other down late game?
A down is a down. Survivors don't get to decide what's cheap or not, or Killers would have 2 minutes to get kills; After 1 gen (because if you kill before a gen is done, you're toxic and sweaty) but before 5 (Because 5 gens is 'basically winning' for Survivors and 'already lost' for Killers!)
I am sick of this 'NoED is cheap' and 'NoED rewards failure' tripe. It's wrong.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910600#Comment_2910600
You are forgetting killer perks are very oppressive. When you have a HEX perk, you are literally in more than one place because you are slowing down all of the survivors. When Ruin is active, it won't cleanse on its own. Without any effort on the killer, somebody is forced to find a very difficult to locate totem - slowing them down. I've seen Ruin or Devour Hope go until all the way to the end. CoH doesn't win games.
BS.
Coh wins games all the time.
You also fail to remember that 1 Survivor can cleanse Ruin while 3 Survivors work on gens. Again; Survivors can do 'secondary objectives' without STOPPING their primary objective. Survivors can do gens AND Boon a totem. Survivors can do gens AND break Ruin.
Killers CANNOT. Killer's can't defend totems AND patrol gens. Killers can't snuff CoH AND chase Survivors. Hell, Killer's cant's chase Survivors and pressure gens, even.
Sure, Survivors get 'slowed down' by having 1 or 2 Boon/Hex hunt. But Killers get outright STOPPED when they have to Boon hunt.
Killers are not half as oppressive as you like to pretend.
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@Sluzzy said:
Because a game should be fun for both sides. When one side is the victim being hunted and slashed, it should be that they are able to heal if they wanted to.
Not doing the primary objective and spending a lot of time to setup a way to heal is actually a huge buff for killers.
I can't believe killers don't see that.
I also can't believe BHVR nerfed it like 3 or 4 times.
DBD is not supposed to be fun. A 4K simulator.
Not doing the primary objective and spending a lot of time to setup a way to heal is actually a huge buff for killers.
I don't know if you are either a troll or just unable to see the Killer side, but see my above post about how Survivors can do 2 objectives at the same time, and Killers can't.
It's in no way a Killer buff to anyone looking at the game mechanics.
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@Brimp said:
As a former dev stated "boons are a secondary objective"
Yeah, well, that dev missed a few things:
- Survivors have 4 people, so 1 can do a 'secondary objective' while 3 do the primary.
- Killers are 1 Killer, so if he's doing a 'secondary objective', he's not doing his primary, which helps Survivors do their primary uninterrupted.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910542#Comment_2910542
The thing is, if COH is nerfed to the point where it's no longer a net time gain, then survivors will mostly just stop using boons altogether, because the rest of the perks aren't really worth it by themselves generally speaking. Shadow step can work sometimes but the other two are just bad.
While I get what you're saying about boons not being the same as hexes, I would still argue the boon system is extremely poorly designed regardless. COH simply is the biggest offender because it's by far the most powerful boon perk. Nerfing it is just solving one smaller component of an overall bigger issue that can't be solved by only adjusting COH.
Well, the devs have shown they don't understand how to fix it, because they don't understand WHY it's broken.
- Give it charges. Once <x> amount of healing is done in it; it snuffs on it's own.
- Give it limited uses; once that Survivor has Booned with CoH <x> amount of times; CoH no longer activates when Booning.
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@DriplordDrew said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2910506#Comment_2910506
NOED rewards a killer for not getting everyone dead before doing the gens which is their objective. After the last gen it become stopping them from leaving. Adrenaline rewards a survivor for getting all the gens done. They are not the same thing.
NOED rewards a killer for not getting everyone dead before doing the gens which is their objective
Wrong.
The Killer's goal is to kill. Before 1 gen. After 5 gens; they kill. This BS about 'AfTeR 5 GeNs' is just tripe invented by Survivors who needed to make up a flaw for NoED coupled with 'I deserve to win NOW' entitlement.
I will say it again:
- The Killer did not lose if 5 gens popped.
- The Survivors did not win if 5 gens popped.
- The Killer did not fail if 5 gens popped.
- The Survivors did not 'basically win' if 5 gens popped.
- The Killer DID NOT LOSE IF 5 GENS POPPED.
- The Survivors DID NOT WIN IF 5 GENS POPPED.
People can't argue to nerf or remove a perk if their arguments are factually wrong. I could say 'Balanced Landing is OP because Survivors insta-win afterwards'. That does not make BL OP, because my reasoning is factually incorrect.
Survivors do not win at 5 gens. Ergo: NoED does not 'reward failure'. If a Survivor is on the map: They have not won yet, and the Killer can still, and should, kill them. Survivors need to stop inventing BS win/loss states and then thinking this makes their fake rules into reality.
NoED is what we call an 'end game perk'. Survivors do not deserve to win because they popped the 5th gen, or because they opened the exit gates. They only win when they walk out the door, or jump in the hatch. NO SOONER.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2909914#Comment_2909914
Since hexes are designed around being broken permanently and boons are designed specifically not to be, yes, that is actually okay and isn't hypocritical or an instance of double standards.
For starters, when old Undying made survivors cleanse multiple totems, the effects of the associated hex were still plaguing them. When a kilelr snuffs a boon, the effects are disabled until it's set back up again, which leads into the idea of continual slowdown that boons are designed around.
It's very important to remember that boons and hexes are not directly comparable, at all. They're different mechanics for different purposes with different design and different requirements for balance.
which leads into the idea of continual slowdown that boons are designed around.
Except CoH returns so much time in heal-speed (and being a 5th perk) that it is not a slowdown to have to place it again.
Also keep in mind that Survivors dictate how long a game goes on for; the faster they can do gens, the shorter the game. And if the Killer has to go snuff a boon because it's giving Survivors a time bonus to all heals, then that Killer is not chasing someone or pressuring gens.
ALSO keep in mind; 1 Survivor can boon while 3 do gens, thereby still doing their objective while Booning. Whereas, as I said above; a Kilelr snuffing a totem is NOT chasing Survivors or pressuring gens.
All that together means that it's literally in a Survivor's best interest to boon, while a Killer is screwed if they snuff (not pressuring gens) or don't snuff (allow Survivors to make up lost time via faster heals).
That is why Circle of Healing is broken to the point that I can't think the devs who added it have ANY idea how the game plays. It's clearly broken in every aspect when you point out how it interacts with the game. It's a lose/lose for Killers, with 0 drawbacks for using it for Survivors.
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No, they should never turn off the DC penalty.
When it's off; more than half my matches have people DC if I find them too fast. I NEVER get to play a match through unless I'm losing, as Survivors will ALWAYS DC if they start to lose.
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Hot Take: Killers, with the exception of 2 or 3, REQUIRE Survivors to mess up. Which means they are very much not viable.
Survivors play flawlessly & Killers play flawlessly: Survivors win.
Survivors play flawlessly & Killers mess up: Survivors win.
Survivors mess up & Killers play flawlessly: Killers win.
Survivors mess up & Killers mess up: More than likely; Survivors win. Depends on how bad the screwups are.
To win as Killer: Survivors have to mess up. It don't matter how good you play.
To win as Survivor: You just have to play well.
The game is dictated by Survivors, and this means the only Killers who are viable are the ones who can take that power back in some way, shape, or form. Nurse, for example, can negate powerful loops and flawless looping, thereby reducing the amount of mistakes Survivors have to make to give the Killer a chance.
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Except I totally shake no to carry a Survivor if I know where the hatch is & want to give it to them, since it's faster than them sprinting in the wrong direction. 🤷♂️
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@Lochnload_exe said:
Except for the fact that only 1 boon is good, and the rest are all horrible. They are a good idea, the only problem is that it was stupid to think that an infinite and fast medkit you can provide to your whole team would be good.
The rest are good, if niche. They are exactly what boons should be, power-wise. (Though all boons should have limited use or placings)
The problem is that CoH over-shadows them so much that they look terrible compared to the free healthcare that is CoH.
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@MrPeanutbutter said:
There’s no way to differentiate between a legit crash and someone force quitting the game. If the devs did what you wanted and removed penalty for “crashes” then everyone would just force quit the game when they’re having a bad match.
I actually came here to say this. Beat me to it.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2907683#Comment_2907683
Baiting it out is not the equivalent to just do bones because in the case of baiting it out its feasible for the killer to get the down because if they have it, and they can't make it to safety of a pallet or window you get them. If they don't have it you still get them. Its in the aforementioned scenarios where even if you time it right to hit them right before they would make it to safety, if they have it they get away. That's why its a stupidly unfair perk. You can time your hit perfectly, you can mind game them beautifully at a loop, but if they have dead hard they erase their mistake. Your beautiful mind game play means nothing because they pressed E.
In the case of Noed in a solo situation you're in a situation where you have no information. You can't take the burden of taking the killer for a run, pressuring gens, doing hook saves, and hunting down five totems.
It is a team based game. I never thought of the game as just me alone surviving. Again I can't speak for anyone else but I don't feel I won if I was the only survivor. The killer won that match if they eliminated most of your team. Yes its nice and all if you survived, but in terms of the match that was a win for the killer. This is one of the reasons why solo queue is a constant source of frustration for players because you have team mates who think like that. Just think about themselves. Don't do gens. Creep around the map staying away from the killer. Won't do hook saves. Just play selfishly. That's the kind of team mates that lose you the game. Its supposed to be 1 v 4. If someone isn't pulling their weight then you're not likely to win.
I don't understand why survivors deserve to be punished for "gen rushing". Completing gens is how you escape. Number of gens being done is the only common piece of information all survivors can see. Its like saying the killer deserves to be punished for kill rushing. I don't even know how you can say its factually wrong. If something is a fact it means you can prove it. You haven't proven it. You're just voicing your own opinion on why you think its fair. Like everyone else here. Its opinion. Not fact.
In the case of Noed in a solo situation you're in a situation where you have no information.
What do you want? NoED to appear at the start so Survivors can cleanse it and move on? Would be useless.
I've already said a totem counter would be a good change.
Again I can't speak for anyone else but I don't feel I won if I was the only survivor.
Again, what you feel is not how the game works. If you live; you won. if you die; you lost. That is how the game marks a win or loss for Survivors. It does not say 'You died but you ran the Killer for 3 gens so you won.'
I don't understand why survivors deserve to be punished for "gen rushing"
Because they are doing gens and ignoring NoED and totems. So if the Killer brings NoED; they get punished for ignoring totems. For tunnel-vision focusing on gens.
That. Is how. NoED works; You ignore bones & he brought NoED? You suffer. You ignore bones & he did not bring NoED? You took the gamble & prevented giving the Killer much-needed time to kill.
I can't explain it any better; NoED exists to punish the 'Hold M1 until I win' mindset. This is not a flaw. This is what the perk is meant to do.
If NoED worked in ANY OTHER WAY; Survivors could either nuke it from orbit, or gen rush when the Killer does not bring it. It, literally, has to be an unknown threat to slow down gens by making Survivors take the bones gamble.
Basically, your arguments are 'I feel like', 'I think like'. 'I feel like I did not earn kills with NoED'. Good for you? Why should everyone else play that way?
That's the mindset that makes entitled Survivors blast NoED users; 'I feel like NoED is cheap' and now they demand Killers not use it because how they 'feel' is a new rule.
The bottom, FACTUAL line is that Survivors DID NOT WIN when 5 gens pop. NoED is NOT 'rewarding failure'. And Survivors DO NOT WIN if they died. These are not how I 'feel'; these are literally how the game is programmed. And people need to stop pushing how they feel over how the game works.
Because how they feel is why Survivors attack Killers for: NoED, 'cheap powers', 'cheap perks', 'cheap tactics'...See the trend? 1 Survivor 'feels' something is 'cheap' and suddenly they feel like the Killer was 'toxic' for being 'cheap'. Now they are not at fault for firing back because 'the Killer was toxic first' in their heads.
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@JamnJelly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2907457#Comment_2907457
Don't gotta be bad in some cases to let a match fly. Play the wrong killer on the wrong map, and things get increasingly worse.
You will never convince some people.
Won at 5 gens left? You were sweaty and toxic and did not deserve that win. Think of the Survivor's fun.
Won after 5 gens pop? You were bad and toxic for using NoED and did not deserve that win. Survivors 'basically won already'.
@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2907644#Comment_2907644
The killer doesn't have to assume it exists. You can be right on them and hit them just before they would make it to a pallet or window. That's when you do it. If they have dead hard they get away. If they don't they go down. That's why its unfair. If you play it to perfection, hit them at the right time before they would make it to the window or pallet, they will either go down or get out of it because they have dead hard. Whether you take a swing at them or not at the correct moment doesn't matter if they have dead hard. They still get away.
That's their own choice when it comes to DS. If you choose to focus on one survivor to tunnel then you are putting yourself in that position.
In swf you can make that argument they didn't do bones because they all know who has done how many totems. In solo queue you have no information. You do not know who has done how many totems. You can run around wasting time looking for totems that may or may not have been done, and for a perk the killer may not even have.
You're one person, you can't account for what your three team mates did. You also can't do everything by yourself. You can't get chased, do gens, do hook saves, and be going around the map trying to track down five totems. That's just not feasible.
Nobody is talking about winning or losing. They're talking about what is fair and what is earned. Yeah the killer wins if they take everyone down with Noed. That's fact. Everyone is dead. Killer won. No question. Did they killer earn those kills because they had a perk they didn't do a single thing to earn except lose all five gens? No. That's why people say it wasn't earned. I agree with them. Its not.
The killer doesn't have to assume it exists. You can be right on them and hit them just before they would make it to a pallet or window. That's when you do it. If they have dead hard they get away
That's what I mean by 'assume it exists'. Survivors says 'Just bait it out'. It's the DH equivalent of 'Just do bones', but Survivors don't want to admit it.
In swf you can make that argument they didn't do bones because they all know who has done how many totems. In solo queue you have no information
There are information perks that track totems. But a perk that gives totem counting would not go amiss.
You're one person, you can't account for what your three team mates did. You also can't do everything by yourself. You can't get chased, do gens, do hook saves, and be going around the map trying to track down five totems. That's just not feasible.
It's a team-based 1v1 game. You'll notice you only win, as Survivor, if YOU escape. It's meant to have you think of yourself as alone, and wondering if you can risk it for the 'team'. That's what SWF ruined.
Nobody is talking about winning or losing. They're talking about what is fair and what is earned. Yeah the killer wins if they take everyone down with Noed. That's fact. Everyone is dead. Killer won. No question. Did they killer earn those kills because they had a perk they didn't do a single thing to earn except lose all five gens?
Onec again ignoring the Survivor input of DOING THE TOTEMS to just assume it's all the Killer's fault (or lack of skill, in this case). A dishonest argument made to shift the blame away from Survivors and create a flaw that does not exist.
A proper argument would be 'Do the Survivors deserve to be punished for gen rushing and not doing totems all match?' and the answer is 'yes'.
That's why people say it wasn't earned.
Well, they are wrong. They are assuming every killer perk has to have Killer input and make them DESERVE the win. Because doing so shifts the blame. They ignore the FACT that Survivors got punished for slamming gens to PRETEND 'The Killer did not earn the kills'.
It's dishonest and factually wrong to argue it that way. They are inventing a requirement (All perks must require the Killer to work for them) and then claiming that is why NoED is 'unfair' or flawed.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2907634#Comment_2907634
In the case of dead hard its got nothing to do with assuming they have it, its how they use it to correct their own mistakes. If you mind game a survivor at a loop your great play is instantly erased because they have dead hard to make it to the safe pallet or window. Its why dead hard is a poorly designed perk. It rewards failure. Like Noed.
With D-strike if you choose to tunnel then that's on you to eat a potential DS. D-strike is in a very fair spot now and is a true anti tunnel perk. So if you eat a DS then you deserve it.
Risk vs reward is something like Devour Hope. You risk running it hoping it won't be found, and the killer has to earn hooks in order to get it to work. Noed is just do nothing and getting free insta down and speed boost at the end. I can't speak for other players but any kills earned from Noed feel cheap and unearned to me. I didn't do a thing to earn that.
In the case of dead hard its got nothing to do with assuming they have it, its how they use it to correct their own mistakes
Yes but Killer still has to assume it exists. If they swing without assuming DH; they miss. That is how it's SUPPOSED to work. The 'DH for distance' is a flaw.
With D-strike if you choose to tunnel then that's on you to eat a potential DS
The Killer still has to assume it exists and slug people. They still have to play around it without knowing if the Survivor has it.
Noed is just do nothing and getting free insta down and speed boost at the end.
Wrong.
NoED is 'Survivors did not do bones, and GAVE the Killer insta downs and a speed boost'.
Risk vs reward is something like Devour Hope. You risk running it hoping it won't be found, and the killer has to earn hooks in order to get it to work.
BOTH are 'Risk Vs Reward'. It just changes who is doing the risk.
I can't speak for other players but any kills earned from Noed feel cheap and unearned to me. I didn't do a thing to earn that.
You can feel that way. The problem is that OTHERS are saying 'Killers did not earn it because I said so. My feelings must be made into game balance.' or 'SuRvIvOrS bAsIcAlLy WoN!' and 'NoED rewards failure!' Which are factually wrong; the Killer did not lose, and Survivors did not 'basically win' at 5 gens.
@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2907519#Comment_2907519
Survivors complain if a killer runs NOED and get kills in end game, but also complain if the killer slugs all 4 survivors out and wins at 5 gens. There's no real winning here, no matter what you do you suck if you get the 4K.
Pretty much. According to many Survivors; I can't get a kill before 1 gen or I 'sweat' and I can't get a kill after 5 gens because I 'basically lost already'. 🙄
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
I would use Noed if the killer had to do something to actually earn such a high reward as a speed boost and insta down ability. Like if you had to get X amount of hooks during the match in order for it to activate. But as it is now its just a perk that rewards failure.
The argument that survivors should just do bones is a poor one. Especially for solo queue. You don't know who has done what totems. You can waste your time running around looking for totems for a perk the killer may not even have. If you're not doing gens the killer is getting free pressure. Its not a fairly designed perk in my opinion.
You can waste your time running around looking for totems for a perk the killer may not even have
That's the point. The Killer has to assume Survivors have Dead Hard, D. Strike, and other perks and play around them, even if they don't.
If you're not doing gens the killer is getting free pressure.
Again; that is the point. The THREAT of NoED forces Survivors off gens, which buys the Killer time.
Or you can ignore totems and possibly get hit with NoED as punishment. It's called 'Risk vs Reward'.
I don't get why or how people can point to NoED doing what it is supposed to do and say 'These are flaws'.
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2907485#Comment_2907485
To be fair, it's usually a shock when a good killer hits me with NOED. Typically it's the default outfit killers that got run the entire game who have it. You usually can tell because they have no game sense and will be chasing me for like 4 gens through the strongest areas of the map, and get rewarded for basically throwing the game and not being able to take smart chases
The good killers usually have 4x slowdowns and the gens are never getting done in the first place
I only use it on killers I am learning, after that I move onto better perks that consistently get me 3ks and 4ks instead of a pity 1k at the end of the game
I use it because, if I manage 2 kills during the match; no one expects it at the end. It's a great way to scare Survivors into making mistakes.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2907485#Comment_2907485
Yeah, if you need a 4% Speedboost and Instadown to get Kills and cannot prevent 5 Gens from being done...Yep, you failed.
It would be totally different if NOED would be a Perk which rewards Killers who did well all Game, but this is not the case.
Yeah, if you need a 4% Speedboost and Instadown to get Kills and cannot prevent 5 Gens from being done...Yep, you failed.
By what metric? And no 'Because Survivors say so' is not valid. Neither is 'My opinion'. Neither of those actually impact the game.
According to the game; The Killer got kills. Therefore; he did not fail.
You're wrong.
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BHVR: People complain Trapper has to spend 50% of the match picking up his traps. Let's fix it with an add-on.
Also BHVR: Let's also make sure that add-on has such a massive downside that it's useless. Because Killer's can't have positive changes more than once a year.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
So, you were bad all game and because you got 4% more Movement Speed and an Insta-Down, despite failing, you suddenly feel good?
Yikes.
If they got kills; what did they fail?
Oh right; the Survivor BS 'You failed at 5 gens' non-logic. People still believe this garbage?
Yikes.
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Nurse is fine. Her power is 99% skill. If we nerf a Killer just because 'They good' then there will be 0 Killers left.
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I will say it again:
The only way Pain Reso & Pop work together is if Survivors tap the gen & run away.
- If they stay on the gen: They start repairing it, and you're losing out on the 15% explosion you got.
- If they leave right away so you get the full 15%: The gen is regressing. You can't kick it with Pop.
So to get that mythical 40%, Survivors would have to misplay very hard and basically hand it to Killers. So, again I ask: Why should we nerf 2 perks that do not even work together unless Survivors make a mistake?
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@rangerdanger0 said:
So when are we going to nerf/balance these perks? With them both combined, the killer gets a 40% regression on gens. We get all our perks nerfed but we can't get a balance on some killer perks? All killers run these days are those two perks together, talk about meta perks.
They ONLY get 40% ON ONE GEN, if Survivors tap that gen.
If they don't Pain Reso makes it regress, which means it cannot be kicked with Pop.
Why should the perks be nerfed for what amounts to a 100% Survivor-controlled misplay?
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2903909#Comment_2903909
Who decided they are "supposed" to be so? You?
Who's deciding they are OP? You? Other Survivors?
Question works both ways.
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@Megmain80 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905567#Comment_2905567
so, a perk where hooking just 1 survivor initiates 2 powerful regression perks isn’t OP? How is that even close to being true? You don’t even need to use both on 1 gen, you can simply go pop a different gen.
And what happens if other gens are barely started? Wasted Pop, wasted time that could have been spent chasing or hooking.
What happens if your Scourge Hooks spawn at the outer corners of the map? No Pain Reso the entire match.
You're acting like the perks are uncounterable. Other Survivors are acting like they stack on the same gen. Both are wrong, and the perks are fine. Survivors need to stop thinking anything even mildly effective on the Killer side needs a nerf.
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Imagine trying to insist a perk combo is OP because of SURVIVOR-made mistakes.
If Survivors tap a gen that just exploded; that is the SURVIVOR'S FAULT. That's not proof Pain Reso & Pop need to be nerfed. Rofl.
@ThanksForDaily said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905470#Comment_2905470
They do, and they use them. Not obviously on the same gen that regressing, SMH.
I know how the perks working and probably I have double or triple your hours. So please.
Do you think I care about your hours?
The perks aren't OP just because Survivors need something to complain about. And hours stop mattering after probably 10 or 15. By then; anyone knows enough about the game mechanics to know what's really OP if they're using their head and not their emotions.
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@Megmain80 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/319194/nerfing-pop-and-scourge-hooks
The answer is never because killer perks don’t get nerfed. I agree they should be though, it’s OP when used together.
No they are not.
You can't even use them on the SAME GEN unless a Survivor taps the gen that explodes, since Pain Reso causes regression, and you can't kick regressing gens to Pop them.
It's amazing how it stops sounding 'OP' when you get into the specifics of how they interact, huh?
@ThanksForDaily said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2905442#Comment_2905442
Killer mains expecting everything hand down to them, don't even try.
Says the Survivor main who will lie by omission to demand nerfs to 2 perks that don't even work together. 🤷♂️
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@ThanksForDaily said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2903937#Comment_2903937
Pop 2.0 15% free regression and popping another gen 25%. Fair and balanced. Lmao, of course they need a nerf
You 'forgot' to mention that:
- Pain Resonance only affects ONE generator. And the Killer has to down someone near a Scourge hook. And carry them to a Scourge hook, at which point they are not pressuring gens or other Survivors.
- PGtW only affects ONE generator. And the Killer has to walk away from his hook. And walk to the gen he wants to kick. And is not chasing or pressuring Survivors. And is on a tight 45 seconds to do it, so he has to literally ignore Survivors and chases.
But all that sounds worse than '15% free and 25% for a kick', huh?
'Lmao' they are fine, when you use honest phrasing.
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@JoByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2903945#Comment_2903945
You truly believe that is the consensus of this forum and community?
Yes, I do.
If a Killer perk performs well? Nerfs are called for it. 'The Killer meta is boring to play against' or '<x> perk/power is unfun' or '<x> perk/power is crutch'. All excuses to 'nerf it!' All of it is Survivors assuming their fun takes priority over Killer fun or game balance.
Survivor perks perform well & Killers complain? 'Git gud' and 'Learn 2 play' and 'stop wanting easy 4Ks'.
Look at the front page here:
- D.Strike should be automatic. Hell, some people have suggested it should be automatic AND reward bonus stun for the skillcheck.
- Nerf PoP. Nerf Pain Resonance.
- Clown's bottles are OP because of interface screw.
Another common one is 'Hag is OP because of HER interface screw.'
I really liked the thread that demanded Killers 'Be happy with the 3K' and 'Stop sweating for the 4K' and shaming them for wanting to win, months back. People legit thought Killers wanting a 4K were 'toxic'. Let me put that another way; They thought it was normal and expected to get a free escape, and Killer's 4King were in the wrong.
Hell, I've had Survivors, in game, give me THREATS because I did not give the 4th Survivor the hatch. THAT is how entitled some Survivors are. They think 'I survived last' = 'Killer must let me go' and openly threaten people who break this 'rule'.
Or how about Survivors demanding input on how Killers win?
- Camping? Toxic.
- Tunneling? Toxic.
- Slugging? Toxic.
To the point that some people were openly making threads on this forum insulting Killers who did any of that. Because they felt their fun, and their rules, trumped Killer player agency.
I even remember one guy who suggested 'The Hook Timer should pause when the Killer is near' and was told 'They tried this, years ago; Survivors abused it'. His reply? 'Well, I was not around to try it, so they should do it again'. That's right; some Survivors felt 'I did not get to abuse this mechanic' was a valid reason to bring it back, flaws and all.
My screen name aside; I did not start DbD this jaded. Years of Survivors treating me like a freaking AI opponent with 0 feelings who can't break the Survivor's Rulebook unless I want a verbal beating have made me this jaded.
I had to make my steam profile private because EVERY GAME ended with at least 1 brain trust Hurrdy-derring '-rep <thin excuse as to why I did not REALLY lose>' onto my profile page. And I got sick of it.
So yeah; I have reasons why I claim Survivors are toxic.
That said; Killers are not saints, either. Don't think I'm saying that. But when I do play Survivor; I rarely see a Killer blast me for my perks, or my tactics, or because I lost, or because I won.
But it happens from Survivors, on average, every second match, when I play Killer.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904091#Comment_2904091
There is 2 secondary survivor objectives. Boons and Chests. Both of these were meant to slow down gen speeds. However, both have become so useless that no one wants to use them anymore. The killers asked for a nerf to CoH and use of CoH is already dropping. Now we're seeing Killers complain about gen speeds because of the nerf they asked for. (Use of CoH has dropped 10% since the announcement of the CoH nerf according to nightlight, the aggregate stat site). My guess is survivors are going back to the gen speed meta and turning away from the healing meta that popped up with CoH.
The problem was that CoH was not a second objective in any sense of 'slowing down gens'.
All it took was people using it twice, and now they have actually GAINED time over healing without it. It stopped being a gen slowdown and started being a gen speedup because Survivors spent less time healing and more time on gens. It paid for it's own time sink with just 2 uses.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2904618#Comment_2904618
First you were talking about condition, now you're back to talking about risk, when in reality the discussion was about cost. You're flipping through different arguments so fast, I can't keep up.
Bottom line: No one has any actual founded objection to the skill check on DS being made easy.
Bottom line: No one has any actual founded objection to the skill check on DS being made easy.
Ah yes; the old 'If I ignore the valid arguments, I can say no one has made valid arguments'. 🤦♂️
Yes, they have. It's nothing but a transparent attempt to make DS a get out of hooks free perk. It does nothing except handhold Survivors while making the game that much harder for Killers.
There is 0 valid reason to do it, other than 'Survivors want it'. People who can't hit skillchecks learn to get better by hitting them. You don't remove it for everyone 'for the newbies'. Which, by the way, is a laughable excuse. This is not 'for the newbies'; that is a smoke screen for just wanting an 'I win' escape clause with 0 input by Survivors.
New players need to git gud and learn to hit skillchecks. There has been 0 valid arguments for this change. See how it works in reverse?
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These forums are still the only place where I can see someone demand a hand holding change meant to make it easier for one side, and then people claim the side making measured arguments as to why it's a bad idea are the ones called 'entitled' for wanting to keep it as it already is. 🤦♂️
The bottom line is that removing DS's skillcheck, or making it easier, is a direct nerf to Killers. Less people will miss it (and people do miss it) which directly reduces that number of hooks, which reduces kills, which reduces pressure, which increases losses.
DS does not need to be made easier for everyone. Do you go into an FPS and ask for aimbots 'for the new players, because they will miss more than the veterans'? No; you play until you can make those shots/hit those skillchecks. You play until your skills improve.
You don't ask for the game to be changed and made easier for everyone on one side while screaming that the other side is entitled for disagreeing.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2903145#Comment_2903145
By that logic for you to hook a survivor you should get a skillcheck as well, since you're literally preventing the survivor from progressing his sole objective of surviving.
Regardless of how some killers think the game is very hard and unfair, the survivors shouldn't just give them free 4ks all the time so their entitled little ego doesn't feel like coming on the forums and being bias and regurgitating their victim mentality everyday in multiple duplicated threads.
Imagine being so entitled that you think 'I don't want Survivors to have a free, no-fail escape' means 'I want easy 4Ks'.
But that's the kind of game the developers have made; if entitled Survivor mains like you don't get your way; you promptly scream that Killers are demanding 'easy 4Ks' and stomp your feet while screaming that everyone but you is wrong and entitled.
@egg_ said:
The usual crybaby killers of this forum, in this thread be like NOOOOOOO you can't just make DS skillchecks bigger or remove them entirely this will make the game LITERALLY unplayable for us 😭😭😭😭😭
And crybaby Survivors promptly demand OP changes, then demonize Killers who point out how flawed the idea is. Y'all are spoiled and scream when you don't get your way.
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@Pulsar said:
I've always been in support of a second Survivor objective.
Few people enjoy sitting on gens and Killers don't enjoy seeing gens pop quickly.
Honestly, before all the massive power creep that obliterated the hide & seek aspect; Survivors needing to find parts to fix gens would have been amazing.
But that's a pipe dream in the current game.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2903967#Comment_2903967
I'm not blaming killers for survivor mishaps. I'm blaming the game mechanics for gifting an imbalanced advantage to killers in the survivor's most vulnerable situation.
And I probably play more killer than any of yall. You are welcome to look at my profile here on the forums if you want to see my killer credentials. "Buzzwords from survivors."
It is a crutch to lean on.
The POINT is that the Survivor is vulnerable there.
So apparently the Killer trying to win is 'a crutch'. Apparently a Survivor doing A BAD PLAY is a Killer 'crutch'. Sure. Whatever. 🙄
This is the only game where I see one side literally say the other side having oppertunities to win is 'crutch'. 🤦♂️
Hook grabs are fine. Stop trying to handhold Survivors.
Between this and 'DS should be automatic'; Killers are literally not going to have nay way to win soon. What's next? 'Hooking is unfair'? 'Survivors should get a skillcheck to avoid being hooked'? How about 'Killers need a Hard skillcheck to pick up Survivors'? Lord.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
In a world where killers can only grab injured survivors, killers can still camp (or proxy or be super strategy guy as Suzu says) the hook and apply pressure there. Just not the automatic down with a grab.
I think killers are crutching on this mechanic too much rather than taking (and learning to win) chases.
Getting a grab off an unsafe unhook is not 'crutching'. This is yet another BS buzzword from Survivors.
The SURVIVOR misplayed and got grabbed. It's not 'no skill' or 'crutching'. Those are BS terms that shift the blame; it stops being 'The Killer took advantage of the Survivor's bad play' to 'The Killer used a cheap tactic that I could in no way counter because it's crutch'.
It's not 'crutch', and anyone who gets grabbed screwed up. Using a term like 'crutch' is trying to blame the Killer for the Survivor playing bad. It's literally shaming Killers for winning while pretending Survivors could in no way counter it.
Stop using buzzwords and blaming Killers for your bad plays. No; grabbing should not go away just so bad Survivors can get free unhooks.
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@MilManson said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2903955#Comment_2903955
That's literally what I said.
Just spelling it out more clearly, since some Survivors are hellbent on assuming all perks should be equal because they forget they have 4 times the perks Killers have.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2903832#Comment_2903832
Free? It requires a perk slot, a hook state, non-participation and a series of misplays on the killer's part before it does anything.
How is that 'free'?
And it's 1 of 16 perks to the Killer's 4 per match.
There's been 0 valid argument as to why it should activate with no chance to miss other than 'Survivors want more hand holding and effortless escapes'.
No perk, bar none, should ever, ever give Survivors a 100% free and guaranteed escape with 0 input required. This is a change that has 0 reasoning behind it other than 'Survivors don't want to fail DS' and 'Survivors want a guaranteed escape'.
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@MilManson said:
OP I hope you realise survivor perks are stronger and there's 4 survivors against the killers 4 perks.
Survivor perks are stronger AND there's 16 Survivor perks to 4 Killer perks, per match.
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The game according to Survivors:
Killer Meta? EVIL! Nerf it! No META should survive! Force the Killer to use subpar perks via nerfing! Nothing should be effective! If it works; it should be nerfed!
Survivor META? Should only change if we're given better perks! Only ever make Survivor meta better! 🙃
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No. 😁
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Removing hook grabs promotes unsafe unhooks and sloppy gameplay.
They're called 'unsafe unhooks' for a reason. And now, 6 years later, it's not fair? 🤦♂️